The Red Sox Thread

[dgreco]

Although I discount his "disciplinarian" cred, I actually agree he'd be a pretty good short-term hire for the Sox. Very smart in-game manager paired with a lot of veteran talent, good things could happen in 2012. He'll wear out his welcome fairly quickly but as a win-now guy, you could do much worse.

(Plus, he will definitely dive fully into the Yanks-Sox rivalry thing a la Schilling. Francona tried to stay above that stuff; V won't. He'll smack-talk the Yankees big time, which will instantly endear him to New England in general and Lucchino in particular.)

I think if the players come back hungry they have a shot to have a good season. Tito lost the club and everything went downhill. It seems like it all started when Ortiz burst through the doors in a press conference to yell at Tito about losing an RBI from a game (btw, that they won). After that point it seemed like losing started, players giving up started, and everyone stopped caring.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

In an interview with WPVI - TV in PA, Papelbon made it known he wants to be a champion again. “I came here to add to my ring collection,” Papelbon said.

http://theloquitur.com/?p=26269

I hope to hell he doesn't get one.



Here's another good one....."Saves, strikeouts and theatrics – what more could you want from a closer? How about a determined winning attitude? Papelbon has that characteristic, too."

Ring collection? Since when is one ring a collection?

[4bronxbombers]

Ring collection? Since when is one ring a collection?

[dgreco]

Ring collection? Since when is one ring a collection?

We all know 1 is the loneliest number.

[hongchihkuo]

Che-hsuan Lin finally added to the 40 man roster (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/ar...r_bos&c_id=bos). Lin had a good Taiwan Series against the MLB squad earlier in November. Hopefully he'll show he deserves a 25 man roster spot in spring training.

[Bronson'sCornrows]

Not my first choice. Or second, third or forth. I was hoping for LaRussa and Duncan even before the Cards won the WS. They've consistently won without crazy great talent and very few managers can say that. Neither Torre or Francona ever won anything without stacked line-ups.

Valentine isn't ideal but it's not like they're hiring Grady Little, Don Zimmer, John McNamara, Joe Kerrigan or Darrell Johnson! A low bar indeed....

Bobby V isn't who I wanted either, but I'll take him a thousand times over incredibly overrated, holds grudges against at least two of his better players every season, DUI media distraction Tony LaRussa. Not only do I think he's overrated, I honestly believe he was one of the worst managers in the game for a while. I'm very glad he'll be nowhere near Boston in 2012 or anytime else.

[ieddyi]

Bobby V isn't who I wanted either, but I'll take him a thousand times over incredibly overrated, holds grudges against at least two of his better players every season, DUI media distraction Tony LaRussa. Not only do I think he's overrated, I honestly believe he was one of the worst managers in the game for a while. I'm very glad he'll be nowhere near Boston in 2012 or anytime else.

What?

TLR is a genius- just ask him

[GeraldGarcia]

What?

TLR is a genius- just ask him

I know one thing about him: He wins a lot. And he does it with talent that is not overwhelming. The 04, 06 and 11 Cards all made the series without stacked teams. Sure, Pujols is one of the best players in the game, but those teams didn't have all that many all stars besides Albert. And they were all different teams. LaRussa also had great success in Oakland.

That he's an egomaniac or has run ins with players doesn't change that reality. Who knows, maybe getting rid of Rasmus was addition by subtraction for that team.

It's moot because he's out.

[Hooligan Tavarez]

The 2004 Cardinals won 105 games with a Pujols-Rolen-Edmonds heart of the order.

[JDPNYY]

The Cardinals have won with seemingly mediocre teams at times because Dave Duncan knows how to turn below average pitchers into above average pitchers for a couple of years.

[ieddyi]

I know one thing about him: He wins a lot. And he does it with talent that is not overwhelming. The 04, 06 and 11 Cards all made the series without stacked teams. Sure, Pujols is one of the best players in the game, but those teams didn't have all that many all stars besides Albert. And they were all different teams. LaRussa also had great success in Oakland.

That he's an egomaniac or has run ins with players doesn't change that reality. Who knows, maybe getting rid of Rasmus was addition by subtraction for that team.

It's moot because he's out.

And I witnessed his stay in Oakland where he had a dynastic team. Solid pitching. Very good defense except for Canseco. Very good offense. 3 ROY in a row. And they won only 1 WS

I also witnessed him fail when he wasn't playing w/ a stacked deck. His "genius" led him to try a "rotation" of pitchers pitching only 3 innings as a plan. Epic fail- lasted 1 week

There's also his habit of picking 1 player to pick a fight w/- ie Rolen, Rasmus, etc. The verdicts still out on Rasmus, but at the time Rolen was a total stud. And don't forget Ozzie Smith

[Rice14]

So Theo has been working for the Cubs for a month and the Sox still have no compensation. Well played by the front office, at this point they'll be lucky to get a box of balls.

Meanwhile, it was reported that the Blue Jays asked for Clay Buchholz for John Farrell, so maybe the Sox weren't out of their minds when they mentioned Matt Garza, you know back when they actually had some leverage. (I don't think they could have gotten Garza, but it was worth opening with).

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

So Theo has been working for the Cubs for a month and the Sox still have no compensation. Well played by the front office, at this point they'll be lucky to get a box of balls.

Meanwhile, it was reported that the Blue Jays asked for Clay Buchholz for John Farrell, so maybe the Sox weren't out of their minds when they mentioned Matt Garza, you know back when they actually had some leverage. (I don't think they could have gotten Garza, but it was worth opening with).

Yeah, I have to say, I thought Bud was going to step in and arbitrate something. I am surprised it's ended up like this.

I think the Blue Jays request was more of a "no way are we handing our manager over to a division rival" than an actual request. It hasn't been the best month for the Red Sox new FO, but there is still plenty of time to make a big splash (and hopefully spend buckets of money unwisely, again).

[dgreco]

Yeah, I have to say, I thought Bud was going to step in and arbitrate something. I am surprised it's ended up like this.

I think the Blue Jays request was more of a "no way are we handing our manager over to a division rival" than an actual request. It hasn't been the best month for the Red Sox new FO, but there is still plenty of time to make a big splash (and hopefully spend buckets of money unwisely, again).

It looks like Ortiz is interested in Baltimore, if they lose Ortiz it could be a rough offseason for the Sox. Ortiz had a resurgent year and really became a favorite of Sox fans again. I doubt they dont want him around.

[effdamets]

It looks like Ortiz is interested in Baltimore, if they lose Ortiz it could be a rough offseason for the Sox. Ortiz had a resurgent year and really became a favorite of Sox fans again. I doubt they dont want him around.

Link?

[dgreco]

Link?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/1...ioles-uniform/

Can't find original link I had from yesterday. Pete Abrams of the Boston Globe had a report about the meeting and info on duquette and Ortiz's agent.

[effdamets]

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/1...ioles-uniform/

Can't find original link I had from yesterday. Pete Abrams of the Boston Globe had a report about the meeting and info on duquette and Ortiz's agent.

Well... that article doesn't exactly say that Ortiz is "interested" in Baltimore, just that the two sides will talk at the GM meetings.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/1...ioles-uniform/

Can't find original link I had from yesterday. Pete Abrams of the Boston Globe had a report about the meeting and info on duquette and Ortiz's agent.

Eh, I think he's just angling for a bigger contract from the Red Sox. Reports were that they made him a lowball offer, and I assume he's looking to get some better offers so that he has a place from which to negotiate with them.

Good luck to him.

[effdamets]

Eh, I think he's just angling for a bigger contract from the Red Sox. Reports were that they made him a lowball offer, and I assume he's looking to get some better offers so that he has a place from which to negotiate with them.

Good luck to him.

Can't really blame the guy. He just threw up a .900 OPS last season....

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Can't really blame the guy. He just threw up a .900 OPS last season....

Oh, I agree. And I am sure he has finally learned to get the best offer he can. I hope he does very well for himself.

[dgreco]

Oh, I agree. And I am sure he has finally learned to get the best offer he can. I hope he does very well for himself.

And I think while he loves Boston he is taking the best offer. At times last year it seemed like he really hated being in Boston (not because of the fans/but organization) and unless he gets the big money I think he walks.

[ieddyi]

Oh, I agree. And I am sure he has finally learned to get the best offer he can. I hope he does very well for himself.

He was really underpaid for most of his sawx career- particularly the peak years

[GeraldGarcia]

He was really underpaid for most of his sawx career- particularly the peak years

I think that reflects that he is one of those guys who actually cares about playing in a particular place. I don't think Ortiz will go for the absolute highest dollar and that, instead, he'll give the Red Sox the chance to get close to whatever is being offered elsewhere.

That's not to say that he'll take a substantially below market deal after his fine 2011 season or a lot less to stay in Boston. (Nor should he). I just don't think he goes to the Orioles for $1 more than what the Sox are offering or will offer once they hear the deal that Baltimore is proposing. I did think that Papelbon would go to the highest bidder almost no matter what.

Yes, it would be very not fun if Ortiz signed elsewhere. I'm not fussed about losing Theo and Terry. Comes a time. Ortiz would be different.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I think that reflects that he is one of those guys who actually cares about playing in a particular place. I don't think Ortiz will go for the absolute highest dollar and that, instead, he'll give the Red Sox the chance to get close to whatever is being offered elsewhere.

That's not to say that he'll take a substantially below market deal after his fine 2011 season or a lot less to stay in Boston. (Nor should he). I just don't think he goes to the Orioles for $1 more than what the Sox are offering or will offer once they hear the deal that Baltimore is proposing. I did think that Papelbon would go to the highest bidder almost no matter what.

Yes, it would be very not fun if Ortiz signed elsewhere. I'm not fussed about losing Theo and Terry. Comes a time. Ortiz would be different.

I think he (and his agent) know that the Red Sox are in a weakened position PR-wise this winter and that they are going to have the Sox match the best offer he can get anywhere else. Let's not forget that this is the guy who actually interrupted Francona's press conference last year because he thought the FO was conspiring to keep his RBI total low and reduce his leverage in salary negotiations. I think he's going to end up staying, but I also think he's going to squeeze the Sox for every dollar he can get.

[TheInfallibleOne]

He was really underpaid for most of his sawx career- particularly the peak years

I think its time to give the Sox a bit of payback for making runs at our most beloved Yankees, namely Mariano Rivera in recent years (and if you wanna reach back, Bernie Williams)

Let's have a sit down with Ortiz's agent to make a "Public Offer" and raise his price. No reason to let the Sox get away cheap again by saying his suitors aren't true contenders for a ring...