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  1. #1051
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    If Cal Ripkin didn't get 100%, nobody will.
    By saying that, you are implying St. Cal is the greatest baseball player ever. He was nothing more special than many inducted after him. In fact, he was inferior to many recent inductees.
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  2. #1052
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    because it should always matter...anyone who says "I didn't vote for Tom Seaver because Babe Ruth wasn't unanimous" should get their HOF vote taken away. Same for Rivera, Jeter, etc.

    I can see not thinking Blyleven was not a HOF player (for example). But Seaver? Ricky Henderson? Jeter? Rivera?

    Not voting for those players as being worthy of the Hall of Fame shows a lack of knowledge of baseball.
    Your argument is perfectly logical, but I can't see getting too outraged when what happens is what's happened every single time. Jeter won't be unanimous, just like Musial and Aaron and Mays and Mantle and everyone else. And it won't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Yes, the BBWAA is a terrible and incompetent organization filled with douchebags and assholes. That's also why they're about to completely blow the MVP vote again.
    Something like 95% of the voters will vote for him, and 5% of any organization or group of opinions Is likely to be stupid. In fact, the BBWAA has made some bad choices, but overall they've done a pretty darn good job with the HOF. The real damage has been done by the various incarnations of the Veterans Committee.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #1053

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Something like 95% of the voters will vote for him, and 5% of any organization or group of opinions Is likely to be stupid. In fact, the BBWAA has made some bad choices, but overall they've done a pretty darn good job with the HOF. The real damage has been done by the various incarnations of the Veterans Committee.
    I'll never forgive them for Jim Rice or Bruce Sutter. They're probably going to induct Jack Morris next year, as well.

    And seriously, no Tim Raines?

  4. #1054
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    I'll never forgive them for Jim Rice or Bruce Sutter. They're probably going to induct Jack Morris next year, as well.

    And seriously, no Tim Raines?
    I stand by my statement. Look at only the BBWAA inductees, and the HOF isn't bad. Not perfect, but not bad.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  5. #1055

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I stand by my statement. Look at only the BBWAA inductees, and the HOF isn't bad. Not perfect, but not bad.
    Bruce Sutter is in there! You might as well induct Doug Jones!

  6. #1056
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Bruce Sutter is in there! You might as well induct Doug Jones!
    You're flailing.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #1057

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    You're flailing.
    Indignantly!

  8. #1058
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Indignantly!
    I'll admit, the exclamation points do strengthen your argument considerably. They put more pressure on me.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  9. #1059

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    By saying that, you are implying St. Cal is the greatest baseball player ever. He was nothing more special than many inducted after him. In fact, he was inferior to many recent inductees.
    no, he's not.

    Ripken had a sainted image (whether he deserved it or not is another story, of course) to go with an overly well-publicized historical feat and being a HOF quality player in of it all. he really didn't have a pack of 'haters' - of any size - like Jeter will have due to his defensive metrics or that Rivera will have due to his being a relief pitcher or A-Rod will have due to the PEDs (etc).

    if someone as idealized as he was at the time of his induction couldn't hit 100%, it's highly unlikely anyone will... right or wrong.

  10. #1060

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by unfamous loser View Post
    no, he's not.

    Ripken had a sainted image (whether he deserved it or not is another story, of course) to go with an overly well-publicized historical feat and being a HOF quality player in of it all. he really didn't have a pack of 'haters' - of any size - like Jeter will have due to his defensive metrics or that Rivera will have due to his being a relief pitcher or A-Rod will have due to the PEDs (etc).

    if someone as idealized as he was at the time of his induction couldn't hit 100%, it's highly unlikely anyone will... right or wrong.
    Exactly. You're not going to find a much better Jeter comp than Ripken.

  11. #1061
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by unfamous loser View Post
    no, he's not.

    Ripken had a sainted image (whether he deserved it or not is another story, of course) to go with an overly well-publicized historical feat and being a HOF quality player in of it all. he really didn't have a pack of 'haters' - of any size - like Jeter will have due to his defensive metrics or that Rivera will have due to his being a relief pitcher or A-Rod will have due to the PEDs (etc).

    if someone as idealized as he was at the time of his induction couldn't hit 100%, it's highly unlikely anyone will... right or wrong.
    Ripken had plenty of haters. Many though he was vastly over-rated. Many thought he was selfish with his streak. Plus pretty much every Yankee fan hated his guts and wished he would have gotten hurt sometime before 2,130. Not seriously hurt, of course. But a pulled hammy or hit on the thumb or even the flu. Anything to cause him to miss a game. I personally never liked the guy. I hope it comes out that he was a PED user to crush his sainthood image.
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  12. #1062
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Ripken had plenty of haters. Many though he was vastly over-rated. Many thought he was selfish with his streak. Plus pretty much every Yankee fan hated his guts and wished he would have gotten hurt sometime before 2,130. Not seriously hurt, of course. But a pulled hammy or hot on the thumb or even the flu. Anything to cause him to miss a game. I personally never liked the guy. I hope it comes out that he was a PED user to crush his sainthood image.
    Many people thought he was overrated, and thought the streak took too much precedence over the team's needs as time went on. That's the only thing in your post that fits with anything I remember, anything I ever felt, or anything I heard anyone else say at the time.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  13. #1063
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    I know that I will get diasgreements here, but I truly feel that Cal didn't play to set the streak record but that, like Jeter, he came each day to play.

    It wasn't Cal's fault that he didn't take a day off, it was his managers fault. But once the games player streak started to reach epic proportions the manager had no choice but to pencil his name is.
    Jeter was fortunate in having managers that knew it would be best not to play him hurt and to rest him occasionally. But if you are a Yankee fan Jeter never took days off easily, always driving his managers crazy on the bench when he wasn't playing.

    I can never see Cal as selfish. He was a team player and did what he could do to help his team. If by playing every day hurt the team, that was the managers fault whose duty was to put the best players on the field for each game.

    Cal Garnered Rookie of the Year award, two MVP awards and was an all star for each of his 21 year career.

    Sorry, I can do nothing but admire him as a player and as a man.

    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  14. #1064

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    After Earl Weaver retired, there was never another O's manager who had the clout to end Cal's streak, which he ended long after he should have. The streak going that long was on Cal, but if the worst thing that you can say about a guy is that he never took days off, then you're talking about a pretty good dude.

  15. #1065
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Cal Ripken Jr is #2 on my all time top SS list. His streak actually make him being underrated IMO. It makes people forget how good his peak was. And even in his later stage of career, which some people think that he put himself over the team and hurt the team, he didn't have a WAR under 1.0 until his last season.

  16. #1066
    Alright, alright, alright... Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    Cal Garnered Rookie of the Year award, two MVP awards and was an all star for each of his 21 year career.
    He was not an all-star in his rookie year.

    Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's

  17. #1067
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Cal Ripken Jr is #2 on my all time top SS list. His streak actually make him being underrated IMO. It makes people forget how good his peak was. And even in his later stage of career, which some people think that he put himself over the team and hurt the team, he didn't have a WAR under 1.0 until his last season.
    He was also a career 112 OPS+ hitter who tailed of a lot after age 30. He had just one particularly good season after age 30 and that one in which he played just 86 games.

    He was a great player no doubt and a deserving 1st ballot HOF but I'm not sure I'd rank him as the #2 all time SS.

    Though looking at the list of HOF SS and those playing who will, you might be right on #2 depending on how you view A-rod & Jeter relative to Cal.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  18. #1068

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    A bit off topic (ok, really off topic), but Holy mother of God, Lou Gehrig was a total beast. I know most of us know this, but for those of you that haven't done so, just take a look at his stats. Wow. I know Babe had the HR's, and Gehrig wouldn't have touched those regardless, but everytime I look at these numbers, my jaw drops.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ehrilo01.shtml

    As a reference, of the top 20 highest rbi seasons of all time, Gehrig occupies 5 of those slots. Babe Ruth, 3.

    One thing I did just notice, Gehrig was no wizard with the glove. WAR comes up before fielding, and I was wondering why the #'s were as low as they were.

  19. #1069
    Addicted Member
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    A bit off topic (ok, really off topic), but Holy mother of God, Lou Gehrig was a total beast. I know most of us know this, but for those of you that haven't done so, just take a look at his stats. Wow. I know Babe had the HR's, and Gehrig wouldn't have touched those regardless, but everytime I look at these numbers, my jaw drops.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ehrilo01.shtml

    As a reference, of the top 20 highest rbi seasons of all time, Gehrig occupies 5 of those slots. Babe Ruth, 3.

    One thing I did just notice, Gehrig was no wizard with the glove. WAR comes up before fielding, and I was wondering why the #'s were as low as they were.
    When the sad day comes (hopefully many decades from now), Jeter is going to have to step aside as Captain on the All Yankee team up in the sky. Lou's got it on lock.
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  20. #1070
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Hey Derek, They stole your thread!

  21. #1071

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    A bit off topic (ok, really off topic), but Holy mother of God, Lou Gehrig was a total beast. I know most of us know this, but for those of you that haven't done so, just take a look at his stats. Wow. I know Babe had the HR's, and Gehrig wouldn't have touched those regardless, but everytime I look at these numbers, my jaw drops.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ehrilo01.shtml

    As a reference, of the top 20 highest rbi seasons of all time, Gehrig occupies 5 of those slots. Babe Ruth, 3.

    One thing I did just notice, Gehrig was no wizard with the glove. WAR comes up before fielding, and I was wondering why the #'s were as low as they were.
    Gehrig was a savage hitter.

  22. #1072
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    One thing I did just notice, Gehrig was no wizard with the glove. WAR comes up before fielding, and I was wondering why the #'s were as low as they were.
    Because they don't have any actual data and are just guessing?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  23. #1073

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Because they don't have any actual data and are just guessing?
    They did actually keep track of errors then, no? I guess they didn't have the RF data, though.

  24. #1074

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I know that I will get diasgreements here, but I truly feel that Cal didn't play to set the streak record but that, like Jeter, he came each day to play.

    It wasn't Cal's fault that he didn't take a day off, it was his managers fault. But once the games player streak started to reach epic proportions the manager had no choice but to pencil his name is.
    Jeter was fortunate in having managers that knew it would be best not to play him hurt and to rest him occasionally. But if you are a Yankee fan Jeter never took days off easily, always driving his managers crazy on the bench when he wasn't playing.

    I can never see Cal as selfish. He was a team player and did what he could do to help his team. If by playing every day hurt the team, that was the managers fault whose duty was to put the best players on the field for each game.

    Cal Garnered Rookie of the Year award, two MVP awards and was an all star for each of his 21 year career.

    Sorry, I can do nothing but admire him as a player and as a man.

    Andy
    I've read several places that he was absolutely terrible to coaches and young players when moved to 3B. Like, legitimately mean. That's not a "team player" to me. He was every bit the selfish self worshiper of anyone you would consider to be so.

  25. #1075
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    They did actually keep track of errors then, no? I guess they didn't have the RF data, though.
    dWAR is supposed to be based on UZR data. If they're going to use errors, they might just as well use RBI for batters.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

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