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  1. #551
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I'm going to go with Nolan Ryan on that one.

    Also, honorable mention to Rafael Palmeiro.
    Albert Pujols is starting to creep up there too. On Baseball Fever a few lunatics still say he will pass Lou Gehrig.
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  2. #552
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    Just off the top of my head I know Cobb did it basically his whole career, which was 23 or 24 straight seasons, it's probably been done by a very few more, but still amazing nontheless!


    Cobb did it 23 years in a row.

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  3. #553

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Albert Pujols is starting to creep up there too. On Baseball Fever a few lunatics still say he will pass Lou Gehrig.
    Pass Gehrig in what category? BTW, in terms of Ripken, remember that he was the prototype fow what came afte, ARod, Garciapara, Tejada, Tulo, etc... First real power hitting SS. Most of what came before were the little guys, great glove and little offense. BTW, also add Jetes in that former group. Not as much power as the others, but still certainly a big guy with offensive prowess.

  4. #554
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    IMHO, Cal Ripken is the most over rated ball player in my life time.
    Agreed. His father basically got him into the HOF.

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  5. #555
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    Agreed. His father basically got him into the HOF.
    I'm pretty sure 2632 straight games got him in. I agreed he's extremely overrated, but he would have gotten in first ballot regardless after breaking that record.

  6. #556
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    I'm pretty sure 2632 straight games got him in. I agreed he's extremely overrated, but he would have gotten in first ballot regardless after breaking that record.
    YES. And his father was manager during some of Ripken, Jr's worst seasons. Any other manager would have sat him down a game or two here and there, but papa did not. By the time CR Sr was dismissed as manager for good, the streak was about 1000 games or so, with CR Jr playing nearly every inning of every game. At that point it was THE STREAK and no manager was sitting CR Jr without him going on the DL.

    Would he be a HOFer without THE STREAK? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe yes, but not on the first ballot, or not with such a high percentage.

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  7. #557

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Ripken was overrated, but he would still be a HOF member without the streak because he has almost 3200 hits, 450 homers and 1700 RBI with two MVP awards.

  8. #558

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Many people think Ripken is the best SS of all time. To me that's why he's the most overrated player ever. I've seen 3, maybe 4 or 5 better SS and I'm 28.

    Palmeiro, Sosa, Pettitte(big fan of his, don't kill me), variteck, Crawford also on that list

  9. #559
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Many people think Ripken is the best SS of all time. To me that's why he's the most overrated player ever. I've seen 3, maybe 4 or 5 better SS and I'm 28.

    Palmeiro, Sosa, Pettitte(big fan of his, don't kill me), variteck, Crawford also on that list
    I think people put Ripken as a Top 5, but nobody puts him above Honus Wagner unless their baseball knowledge starts in 1980.

    The rest of your list: Palmeiro, Sosa, et al...what are you saying about them?

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  10. #560

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    I think people put Ripken as a Top 5, but nobody puts him above Honus Wagner unless their baseball knowledge starts in 1980.

    The rest of your list: Palmeiro, Sosa, et al...what are you saying about them?
    All overrated.

    You don't have to google too many articles to see Ripken over ARod, Jeter, and Smith. I'm not saying its a majority opinion, but it's way more common than it should be.

  11. #561
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    I don't see Sosa, Varitek and Crawford as generally over-rated, since I don't know anyone who rates them very high (that doesn't live in one of their cities). None of them are going to make the HOF.

    Palmeiro had a chance (500+ HR, 3000+ hits) but the steroids case will kill him.

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  12. #562
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    You don't have to google too many articles to see Ripken over ARod, Jeter, and Smith. I'm not saying its a majority opinion, but it's way more common than it should be.
    Like I said, if your baseball knowledge goes back to 1980...

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  13. #563

    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    I don't see Sosa, Varitek and Crawford as generally over-rated, since I don't know anyone who rates them very high (that doesn't live in one of their cities). None of them are going to make the HOF.

    Palmeiro had a chance (500+ HR, 3000+ hits) but the steroids case will kill him.
    Palmeiro is easily the worst player you'll ever see with 3,000 hits and 500 HRs. He never, ever, never never, ever never, EVER was the best player at his position in the American League. And he never did anything of note in his many opportunities playing for contending / playoff teams.
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  14. #564
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    I don't see how Pettitte is over rated.
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  15. #565
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Palmeiro is easily the worst player you'll ever see with 3,000 hits and 500 HRs. He never, ever, never never, ever never, EVER was the best player at his position in the American League. And he never did anything of note in his many opportunities playing for contending / playoff teams.

    Aaron, Mays, Murray and Palmeiro. Yeah, Palmeiro is the worst. Murray a close second worst.

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  16. #566
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    I'm pretty sure 2632 straight games got him in. I agreed he's extremely overrated, but he would have gotten in first ballot regardless after breaking that record.
    Although I agree he's very over-rated, even without the streak he has over 3,100 hits. That alone is a shoe-in for the HOF.
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  17. #567
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Palmeiro is easily the worst player you'll ever see with 3,000 hits and 500 HRs. He never, ever, never never, ever never, EVER was the best player at his position in the American League. And he never did anything of note in his many opportunities playing for contending / playoff teams.
    There aren't many in the 500/3,000 club. Is he worse than Eddie Murray?
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  18. #568
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Although I agree he's very over-rated, even without the streak he has over 3,100 hits. That alone is a shoe-in for the HOF.
    Does he get to those heights if he takes off games he should have during the streak?
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  19. #569
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Does he get to those heights if he takes off games he should have during the streak?
    No, but is he in with 2,800 hits and 375 home runs, with mostly solid defense? Probably, but not the 1st ballot.
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  20. #570
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by crossfire View Post
    I've been watching baseball since I was a kid in the early 70's. Gwynn was easily one of the best hitters I ever saw. I used to go to Shea once in a while in the 90's just to see Gwynn play.

    In 1994, he damn nearly hit .400 but ended up at .394.

    Incredible!

    He batted over .350 seven times.

    His batting averages from '93 - '97 were friggin' amazing.

    1993 - .358
    1994 - .394
    1995 - .368
    1996 - .353
    1997 - .372

    Gwynn was always one of my favorites. It's pretty remarkable...in that amazing 1994 season he also only struck out 19 times.

  21. #571
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    All overrated.

    You don't have to google too many articles to see Ripken over ARod, Jeter, and Smith. I'm not saying its a majority opinion, but it's way more common than it should be.
    He's overrated because of his streak. But you can make a pretty strong case of putting Ripken over A-Rod, Jeter and Smith.

    And like Big_E said, nobody puts him above Honus Wagner if they know some history about baseball before 1980.

  22. #572
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    He's overrated because of his streak. But you can make a pretty strong case of putting Ripken over A-Rod, Jeter and Smith.

    And like Big_E said, nobody puts him above Honus Wagner if they know some history about baseball before 1980.
    I don't know why you'd put him over Jeter. Jeter has had 7 seasons over 200 hits, Ripken 2 (his 2 MVP seasons). Ripken has 2 MVPs, one of which is equal or worse to Jeter's 1999 season. Jeter has 5 GG to Ripken's 1. Ripken has more HR and RBI, but Jeter has the slightly higher SLG. He has a much higher OBP and BA, too.

    Ripken has 3184 H in 11,551 AB
    Jeter has 3114 H in 9936 AB.

    Imagine, Jeter could go 70 for his next 1614 and still have a higher career BA than Cal Ripken, Jr.

    I saw an article last year, or the year before, saying when he's done, Jeter could be considered the second greatest SS of all time, behind of course, Honus Wagner.

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  23. #573
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Career wRC+

    Ripken = 111
    Jeter = 124
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  24. #574
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Besides his first and last season, Ripken's yearly bWAR was never below 1.3 and that 1.3 bWAR season was his second last year (Jeter's last season bWAR was also 1.3). So even though he retired after 1995 which was his last good year (bWAR above 3.0), by that time he would retired as a 2-time MVP, 14-time All-Star, 2-time Gold Glover, 117 OPS+, 83.6 bWAR shopstop with 2500 hits, 350 HR, 1300 RBI and good reputation. He would still be a first-ballot HOFer.

  25. #575
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    Re: Derek Jeter: 3,000 Hits and Milestones

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Career wRC+

    Ripken = 111
    Jeter = 124
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    I don't know why you'd put him over Jeter. Jeter has had 7 seasons over 200 hits, Ripken 2 (his 2 MVP seasons). Ripken has 2 MVPs, one of which is equal or worse to Jeter's 1999 season. Jeter has 5 GG to Ripken's 1. Ripken has more HR and RBI, but Jeter has the slightly higher SLG. He has a much higher OBP and BA, too.

    Ripken has 3184 H in 11,551 AB
    Jeter has 3114 H in 9936 AB.

    Imagine, Jeter could go 70 for his next 1614 and still have a higher career BA than Cal Ripken, Jr.
    It depends on how much you weigh their defense. Ripken is rated as an above average to very good defensive SS by nearly all defensive measures.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that I would definitely put Ripken over Jeter. I haven't done those ranking things for a while. And I can also make a strong case of Jeter being the second all-time best SS. My point is that people can make a reasonable case of putting Ripken over Jeter, Smith, A-Rod, etc.

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