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  1. #1
    Now THERE is a Captain !! SanFrANSKY's Avatar
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    Why Did The Dodgers Leave Brooklyn?

    I know that the short answers are "money" and "O'malley is a @#$@#^!"

    Did O'Malley hold up the borough of Brooklyn for a new ballpark? Wasn't there a plan to build a new "sports center?" Was Flatbush really that bad a 'hood by the 1950s? I can only imagine the sadness of the faithful. I mean, the team was finally winning -- had gone to the WS 4 times and had done the absolutely impossible (took the WS from the Yankees).

    I was hoping that some of you old-timers might be willing and able to lend your insight.
    Last edited by SanFrANSKY; 08-05-01 at 03:50 PM.
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  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Slippery Elm's Avatar
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    Brooklyn had great attendance for that era so it wasn't that.

    O'Malley WANTED to leave as LA had already offered him fabulous money-making deals. He was a disingenuous dirtbag.

    Yes, the Brooklyn neighborhood was changing: white middle class fans heading to the suburbs and the area being occupied by poor blacks. In 1950 the area around Ebbets Field was middle to upper middle class; Empire Boulevard had row after row of upscale car dealerships, such as Buicks. The closed shells of those building remain. By the Seventies the area was a real dump; it's a little better now. No, it was not a "'hood" in the Fifties.

    But it was California money that drove O'Malley, not changing neighborhoods and poor parking.

    Two questions remains.

    Robert Moses was the de facto dictator in NYS regarding public works. See the giant tome by author Caro on that guy. Big subject. Suposedly, Moses offered O'Malley a new site for the Brooklyn Dodgers - in FLUSHING, Queens!!! How absurd.

    Why the site near the LIRR station in downtown Brooklyn on Atlantic Avenue never panned out I do not recall.

    Why the National League owners allowed TWO teams to leave making NYC devoid of a NL franchise I do not know.

    Maybe someone on this site would know: http://www.brooklyn-dodgers.com/

    Or try the Baseball History section of www.Fanhome.com.

  4. #4
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    I libed in Flatbush in the sixties-it didn't really "turn", (and by that please please please do not read any ill will, racism or bad intent because none is meant in any way) until the late 1960's and early 70's. Even now, Flatbush, though predominantly minority is a solid community of people, mostly from the islands, many of whom are home owners.

    I think O'Malley just saw a chance to make more money and ripped the heart and soul out of Brooklyn. It was before my time they moved before I was born, but remember family members talking about it as if it was the end of the world.

    Since i had no good memories of them, I felt no particular affinity for the NL and became a Yankees fan, so I guess I'm lucky!
    "...man can now fly in the air like a bird, swim under the ocean like a fish, he can burrow into the ground like a mole. Now, if only he could walk the earth like a man, this would be paradise." Tommy Douglas- The "Greatest" Canadian.

  5. #5
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    O Malley was smart.

    Both the Giants and the Dodgers had to move at the same time.The Commissioners office was in cahoots.If Wagner would have got off his duff much sooner it might have been prevented.I for one am glad they moved.Major league Baseball to the Coast was inevitable.

    Better the Giants and Dodgers than my Yankees!

  6. #6
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    Slippery Elm's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Danmel
    I libed in Flatbush in the sixties-it didn't really "turn", (and by that please please please do not read any ill will, racism or bad intent because none is meant in any way) until the late 1960's. . .
    Such timorous disclaimers about "Hey! I'm not a racist" get tiresome. They are UNNECESSARY.

    The neighborhood was middle to slightly upper middle class after World War Two when it was mostly white and large part Jewish. I know it well as my father was in the NYPD at the 78 precinct on Empire Boulevard. By the Seventies it was a dump with rising crime stats as businesses fled or closed and poor blacks moved in. It is significantly better now. Those are the facts. Any race-baiter doesn't like it, tough.

    I really should take a tour of where the Polo Grounds was. If you can't make it, try this: http://members.tripod.com/franksballparks/polo.html

  7. #7
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    Slippery Elm's Avatar
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    Re: O Malley was smart.

    Originally posted by Michaels07
    Both the Giants and the Dodgers had to move at the same time.The Commissioners office was in cahoots.If Wagner would have got off his duff much sooner it might have been prevented.I for one am glad they moved.Major league Baseball to the Coast was inevitable.

    Better the Giants and Dodgers than my Yankees!
    But the question is what was in it for the National League and MLB having two teams move to California while New York was left without a team?? Remember, the Giants and Dodgers were old franchises with major rivalries against each other and against the Yankees. Dodger attendance was very good, even if the Giants' was slacking off. One would think expansion would be preferable. Why was MLB in cahoots?

  8. #8
    O'Malley was given sweet heart land deal (Chavez Ravine) I believe they own the Stadium and the land outright.

    In the end it was about money...

    Having grown up in Brooklyn I can honestly say that the Dodgers leaving changed Brooklyn forever...our identity was stripped away and the neighborhoods and sense of community were emptier for it too.

    Till this day my Dad will not allow the name O'Malley to be spoken in his home...the hurt is still there even after all these years.

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  9. #9
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    As I remember, Ebbits field had a capacity of about 35,000. O'Malley tried to get the city to build a new bigger stadium. LA came forward and offered him a sweetheart deal and committed to build a new large BP. O'Malley knew that the CA area needed two teams to make it work, so he convinced Stoneman that he would be better off in SF than in NY with the poor attendance then being suffered by the "Gints".
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  10. #10
    Now THERE is a Captain !! SanFrANSKY's Avatar
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    Thanks for these great responses. I know that there are still plenty of folks in Brooklyn who have fond memories of Dem Bums. At the same time, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone sporting an old New York Giants ballcap. I take this to be a sign of the identity that the Dodgers brought to the good people of Brooklyn.

    I've done some research of my own on this, and more and more I feel a great deal of sorrow for the loyal New York baseball fans that basically took it right in the ass because of stone cold Stoneham and O'Malley. I try to imagine myself owning a baseball team in a city that loves baseball and I can't see myself amputating that part of people's lives and spirit. I suppose I'd make a lousy owner, but I can live with it.
    SanFrANSKY
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  11. #11
    Released Outright Ansky39's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Slippery Elm


    Such timorous disclaimers about "Hey! I'm not a racist" get tiresome. They are UNNECESSARY.

    The neighborhood was middle to slightly upper middle class after World War Two when it was mostly white and large part Jewish. I know it well as my father was in the NYPD at the 78 precinct on Empire Boulevard. By the Seventies it was a dump with rising crime stats as businesses fled or closed and poor blacks moved in. It is significantly better now. Those are the facts. Any race-baiter doesn't like it, tough.

    I really should take a tour of where the Polo Grounds was. If you can't make it, try this: http://members.tripod.com/franksballparks/polo.html
    whether your racist or just plain ignorant i dunno, but that's a pretty simplistic, inaccurate and just plain dumbass view of the history of MY neighborhood...

    what exactly makes the neighborhood a "dump", the economics or the racial demographics... and why is it "significantly" better now? and what the hell does your misinformed ignorant dumbass comments about flatbush have to do w/ the dodgers leaving brooklyn???

  12. #12
    One of the Originals CalifYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: O Malley was smart.

    Originally posted by Michaels07
    Both the Giants and the Dodgers had to move at the same time.The Commissioners office was in cahoots.If Wagner would have got off his duff much sooner it might have been prevented.I for one am glad they moved.Major league Baseball to the Coast was inevitable.

    Better the Giants and Dodgers than my Yankees!
    I'm from California and I totally agree. Can't stand either one of those teams. The Yanks have always been first and foremost.

  13. #13
    Old School Baseball Gehrig's Avatar
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    They left Brooklyn ?!?

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