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  1. #11351

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Russel Martin is arguably the best defensive catcher in MLB, in the non-Molina brothers division.

    Last year:
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  2. #11352
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I think it was the timing. I really think Cash had "X" to spend, with 2014 money at a particular premium. Perhaps the front office will back off the hard cap number for next year, but last winter it was front and center.

    Put it this way, if Cashman had normal, or even reasonable budget, I think he signs Martin all day long.
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  3. #11353
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    They were bidding against the Phillies. Do you proofread or do research?
    The Yankees waited until the winter meetings to open negotiations and once the Phillies and Red Sox started sniffing around him, they were forced to offer him 2 years - $13 million to win the bidding.

    In addition to the absurdity of giving contracts based on a few good weeks, what kind of good negotiator passes up an exclusive negotiations window, waits a month, and then gets strong-armed into giving spending way too much money.
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  4. #11354
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    We were trying to sign him simultaneously while trying to sign Ichiro. Either way I don't see how that matters, they tried to get him and lost out.

    It's funny, I remember the disappointment around here when the word was out that we going after him.
    The Yankees didn't sign Ichiro for 2 years / USD 13 million until December 10th or 11th, depending on who you read.

    Schierholtz signed with the Cubs on December 6th for USD 1 year / 2.25 million.

    Unless Cashman can provide a reasonable explanation for how he spent the month of November, it sounds like they came into the winter meetings totally unprepared and got forced into giving too much money to a player they didn't originally want.
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    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  5. #11355
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    This is a little 20/20 hindsight.

    Did we know that Granderson and Teix would miss so much time at that time? No

    Also, Martin was a black hole at bat last year. It was cringe-worthy everytime he came up.

    There's no way he deserved the type of contract he was given. (His defense? Not sure he gets better than an average rating at this point)
    I don't think his contract was that outrageous. But again, not signing Martin was a defensible decision - or would have been, if they'd had a better alternative in mind.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  6. #11356
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    I think it was the timing. I really think Cash had "X" to spend, with 2014 money at a particular premium. Perhaps the front office will back off the hard cap number for next year, but last winter it was front and center.

    Put it this way, if Cashman had normal, or even reasonable budget, I think he signs Martin all day long.
    What I think happened was that Randy and Hal initially told Cashman that the Yankees couldn't spend any new money and should try to tread water next season with veterans on one-year deals - hence Kuroda, Andy, and Mo.

    Once the injuries started happening and the Yankees started getting bad press, Randy and Hal made some publicity moves, loosened the purse strings, and ordered Cashman to bring in guys they remembered being good (Ichiro, Pronk, Youkilis).

    Once spring training rolled around and it looked like the Yankees were on pace to have a depleted roster and thousands of unsold season tickets, Randy and Hal told Cashman to spend whatever was necessary to fix the team - hence Wells, Boesch, Overbay.
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    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  7. #11357
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I don't think his contract was that outrageous. But again, not signing Martin was a defensible decision - or would have been, if they'd had a better alternative in mind.
    He was doing well and got hurt.
    Pardon, for us.

  8. #11358
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    He was doing well and got hurt.
    Cervelli? Hurt? No one could possibly have foreseen that (even if he did get hurt in a new way). Besides, I don't believe he would have sustained that any more than I believed Martin would repeat last year's abomination.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  9. #11359
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    What I think happened was that Randy and Hal initially told Cashman that the Yankees couldn't spend any new money and should try to tread water next season with veterans on one-year deals - hence Kuroda, Andy, and Mo.

    Once the injuries started happening and the Yankees started getting bad press, Randy and Hal made some publicity moves, loosened the purse strings, and ordered Cashman to bring in guys they remembered being good (Ichiro, Pronk, Youkilis).

    Once spring training rolled around and it looked like the Yankees were on pace to have a depleted roster and thousands of unsold season tickets, Randy and Hal told Cashman to spend whatever was necessary to fix the team - hence Wells, Boesch, Overbay.
    My suspicion is the same -- and that caused the silence in the winter, and then the sudden desire to spend money as the season approached. That's why I think it is critical that they decide on a plan and stick to it. The fans may or may not like it, but changing strategy midstream gives us the worst of both worlds, and there are going to be some key decisions to be made this offseason.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  10. #11360
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I don't think his contract was that outrageous. But again, not signing Martin was a defensible decision - or would have been, if they'd had a better alternative in mind.
    I think you and I were two of the more vocal folks regarding expecting Martin to snap back somewhat this year offensively. But before anyone gets too worked up about his current OPS+, wRC+ or whatever, lets not forget that he has ALWAYS had the ability to have a blistering hot stretch for a month or so, and generally those have been followed by a series of <.700 OPS months, sometimes <.600 OPS months. 2011 is a great example of that.

    This year is another one, and he might just have come over the apex of one of his hot streaks and be in for what wouldn't be an atypical long, hot summer:

    First 12 games: .103 / .205 / .154
    Next 26 games: .330 / .411 / .606
    Last 20 games: .225 / .353 / .310

    So while I wanted Martin back, and was not particularly excited about Stewvelli, it's still too early to say this was a catastrophic decision for this roster (especially dollar for dollar, for those that put value on that sort of thing).

  11. #11361
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    The Yankees didn't sign Ichiro for 2 years / USD 13 million until December 10th or 11th, depending on who you read.

    Schierholtz signed with the Cubs on December 6th for USD 1 year / 2.25 million.

    Unless Cashman can provide a reasonable explanation for how he spent the month of November, it sounds like they came into the winter meetings totally unprepared and got forced into giving too much money to a player they didn't originally want.
    I think he tried to get Schierholtz, missed out, and with options running low, Ichiro used leverage to squeeze a 2nd year out.

    I think something similar happened with Keppinger/Youkilis except it came in an overpay v. years.
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  12. #11362

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Deserves GM of the year, for building one for the worst lineup in NYY history.
    Ain't it EVIL to LIVE backwards

  13. #11363

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I have long had enough of Cashman. While the mess that is this team is not 100% his fault- the ARod contract being all on the Steinbrenner boys- the bottom line is that he has had full control of this team since 2005, and his vaunted farm system project has produced one good regular player in Gardner, and one very good reliever in DRob, for the ML team. All of the vaunted high-end starter prospects did not pan out, in part due to organizational mismanagement. Wang's recovery from injury could be put into that category as well. We have nobody in AAA that is even close to being a ready-made impact player. He decided that this year's team, despite Jeter, ARod, and Tex being various combinations of old, declining, and injured, did not require a ML-quality catcher or a ML-quality infielder. His grand plan was to roll the dice on aging, washed-up players. He has shown little to no creativity, in terms of making trades to improve the team over the years- he has been successful at spending $$$ on FA, and has made some good deadline pickups, useful pieces, but that's about the extent of it. Granderson was his best trade in recent memory by comparison, but even he has underperformed overall for what we ended up giving up. I still think that the signs that something was not right with Pineda were present in the second half of the 2011 season, and were ignored, as Cashman traded our best chip in years anyway, and then immediately paid for it. He failed to recognize that the overrated Hughes and Joba would have best served this team as trade chips 3-4 years ago, but did nothing, and let their current value whittle down to the next-to-zero level through their performances. His overall evaluation of the pitching talent he has brought in has been mediocre. I do give him credit for Kuroda.
    I know that there are many supporters of Cashman on this board, and many who will disagree with me, which is fine. While I don't think that he is the worst GM in baseball, or even decidedly below average, I do think that he is nothing more than league average, on his best day, and that he has had the luxury of (prior to these past couple of years) vast resources to cover up his mistakes. This is a team that is at the precipice of a new era and will need to commit to a full rebuild, and I think there are likely better options available at this point in the team's history than Cash to do this job.

  14. #11364
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    He dangled Hughes for Santana and Montero for Halladay. No GM entertains the thought of trading the '07 version of Joba for anyone.

  15. #11365

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Dan Haren is going to be brought up sooner or later. The Dan Haren proposal as reported was already pretty good. At the time Joba was good (enough) and important piece of the Yankees pen. Trading him for Dan Haren would have been a upgrade to the rotation, but once you account for the weaker pen, it's quite rational to believe it's not worth it given the prospects involved. That's not accounting for Haren's struggles at the time.

  16. #11366

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Cashman is hard to judge. Trading for Wells was a bad idea regardless of the Yankee situation. I can't tell if it was the Steinbrenners who wanted Ichiro because of him being close to 3000. Hopefully he doesn't try to patch work this season and trade prospects for guys that probably won't help out a lot. I think its time to rebuild and get some more depth.
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  17. #11367
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    He dangled Hughes for Santana and Montero for Halladay. No GM entertains the thought of trading the '07 version of Joba for anyone.
    Of course no one would trade the '07 version. But by 2010, they could have gotten value for him as a starter rather than turning him back into a non-closing reliever.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  18. #11368
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    vernon wells on pace to have the worst year of his career, OPS+ wise... and of course, this had to happen while he was on the yankees

    g'job cash... zoilo almonte could have done the same thing, and for free
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  19. #11369
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    ^ That's another one that hurts....and hurts and hurts and hurts......

  20. #11370
    can't pump his fist Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I do hope that any midseason reinforcements will be guys who can contribute beyond this season. The Yankees making a postseason run already seems unlikely, it wouldn't make any sense to give up useful prospects for players that can't contribute in 2014 and beyond.
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    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  21. #11371
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Of course no one would trade the '07 version. But by 2010, they could have gotten value for him as a starter rather than turning him back into a non-closing reliever.
    That's a whole different issue altogether. They definitely botched that entire thing and I guess you can blame him for that.

  22. #11372

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.roy View Post
    ^ That's another one that hurts....and hurts and hurts and hurts......
    Where's the poster who called the move a "coup" ?
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  23. #11373
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I have always been a Cashman supporter but he has had total control for 8 years and the farm system is still a mess. Only two players on the curren roster (Gardner & D Rob). And this is not like the 1980's where George would force his GM to trade away promising players from the system who would wind up being stars for other teams. Even our so called best chip (Montero) has so far not been a world beater for Seattle. Had the Yankees been able to develope a few more major league quality players the current run of injuries might not have hurt the team as much.

  24. #11374
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    I have always been a Cashman supporter but he has had total control for 8 years and the farm system is still a mess. Only two players on the curren roster (Gardner & D Rob). And this is not like the 1980's where George would force his GM to trade away promising players from the system who would wind up being stars for other teams. Even our so called best chip (Montero) has so far not been a world beater for Seattle. Had the Yankees been able to develope a few more major league quality players the current run of injuries might not have hurt the team as much.
    Not disputing your general premise, but what are you saying with the bold? What about Claiborne, Almonte, Phelps, Nova, etc.?
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  25. #11375
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Not disputing your general premise, but what are you saying with the bold? What about Claiborne, Almonte, Phelps, Nova, etc.?
    Not to mention guys that were acquired with talent from the farm, like Granderson and Pineda and Logan. What about Hughes, Joba, Cervelli?

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