Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

[Chairman-of-TheBoard]

Just so we're clear, I think you've proven yourself to not only know next to nothing about baseball, but also next to nothing about how to be respectful to other people on this forum.

Also, just so we're clear, most of the people you're insulting "have a fulltime job" as well. I certainly do, and trust me, my job carries a great deal more responsibility than most. The whole "mother's basement" line is even less creative than your usual crap about "Randy Fail."

I couldn't care less about hurting your feelings ... but I do think it's important that more people speak up and call you out for being so disagreeable and belligerent. I wouldn't want you to get the idea that it's a small minority of "kids with fancy stats" who think you're 100% full of sh!t.

Yes, your condescending post was simply oozing with what you deem to be "respect." Just so we're doubly clear:
-- I truly couldn't care less what your measure of a true fan is, much less your measure of baseball knowledge. You're a fan, not an assistant coach, so your judgement means very little to me, as does your attempt to lay down the law.
-- I only meant to address YOU in that post. Dragging anyone else into the comments WE have exchanged is quite immature, don't you think?
-- Finally, whether you like it or not, people will continue to express opinions contrary to your own. I do not feel Cashman has committed the "fireable offense" in his less-than-stirling moves. I believe that certain moves of his were ill-advised to begin with and I hope he can make-up for them during the offseason. I still like Granderson as a Yank, but I do not like his penchant for feast/famine stretches this season and I would like to see him hit better against lefties. And the signings I mentioned earlier (Johnson, CHOP and Fail) were indefensibly bad moves. Disagree? Cool, whatever. It's a free country and they were still his moves.

[Saxmania]

And thats the probelm my friend, you are looking at numbers on a piece of paper instead of analyzing the ABs. In a big spot, with everything on the line Matsui and Damon will give you a quality AB. They have done it their entire career.

Yes, you can prove anything with numbers, even the truth.

Memory, on the other hand, is faulty. We don't remember things we don't want to remember (like Damon flailing away and striking out with a runner on 3rd, or Matsui grounding into yet another double play), and even when we have no inherent bias, our brain is an imperfect tool. Numbers, when gathered correctly, offer facts. Memory offers opinions.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[rajah]

A couple of responses:

1) Given the season Thames had, I do not think he is going to sign for the same money to be a PHer only. He is going to get the money of slated a RHed DH next year, and I at least hope that the emergence of Montero along with a final season for Jorge will mean there is no room for a RHed DH.

2) Had Cashman signed Matsui instead of NJ, we would have a DH duo of Matsui and Thames now, instead of Berkman and Thames. So gold23 and others who are comparing Matsui and Thames against lefties are missing the point. I, and I bet Joe and Brian, would rather have Matsui/Thames than Berkman/Thames going into the playoffs, although I know that Berkman could come up big in the post season.

Having said this, I also will reiterate that I understand why Cashman chose NJ and I think it made sense at the time. With 20/20 hindsight, I think even Cashman would acknowledge it did not work out as well as signing the gimpy kneed Matsui would have. I am sure he would say that about the Vazquez trade, though that certainly looked like a great deal to me at the time based on Javy's 2009 and higher velocity. GMs should not be judged primarily in hindsight, though partial hindsight evaluation is inevitable.

[JSG]

GMs should not be judged primarily in hindsight, though partial hindsight evaluation is inevitable.

this should be in italics under the thread title !!

[sweet_lou_14]

Yes, your condescending post was simply oozing with what you deem to be "respect."

I thought it was pretty respectful. Respectfully, I'll ask you again: How in the world do you expect anyone to take your "opinions" seriously when you post nonsense such as the claim that Brian Cashman wants Nick Johnson and Randy Winn on the playoff roster?

I find your statements about Cashman to have zero credibility because (a) they are rants without any shred of objective analysis and (b) they are framed as though his offseason moves represent a static, immutable plan for the 2010 season as a whole. This despite the fact that even before the season began, he was on the record talking about the team's ability to take some inexpensive chances on the last few roster spots because of its well-established ability to make in-season adjustments.

This is my first time really going back-and-forth with you and it's probably the last. I can tell by the way the rest of the thread is going that most people have figured out it's better to just leave you alone.

[False1]

blah blah blah

You may not realize this, but it's highly unlikely that you're going to find ACTUAL assistant coaches, GM's, players or others in the employ of MLB posting on NYYFans (Schillwad being the exception). For the most part this forum is made up of intelligent fans who love the game, love the team and come here to discuss and debate interesting topics involving both. If you don't respect the opinions of posters that aren't MLB professionals, you're in the wrong place. If you're coming here just to leave a virtual steaming pile in each thread, therapy is a better option for you because you'll get paid support. Attacking some of the best forumers we have here - folks that literally dedicate time to making this site more informative and enjoyable to other visitors - is the apex of trolling. It's old, it's tired and seriously if this is how you get your adrenaline rushes then you need to take some of your own advice and get out of the house and find some hobbies.

[gold23]

Game on the line there aren't too many players on the 2010 Yankee roster I would take over Matsui and/or Damon. They will give you a quality AB in big spots. I know a whole bunch of you are going to throw out a bunch of fancy stats derived from spreadsheet formulas to tell me I'm wrong, (I can't want for the designer stat that concludes Kearns is a better clutch hitter than Matsui), but I'll keep making my judgements based on what I see on the field.

If this were not 2010, I'd be happy to agree with you. The problem with this post, however, is that it does not address the declining skill set with Damon. Damon is not a shell of his old self.

Matsui has had a somewhat Matsui-ish year, and he has historically been the singular greatest player in MLB's record keeping at getting a runner in from third. So while you may have a valid point on Matsui, I'd still prefer Thames/Berkman to Hideki for the next month.

[rajah]

Why do you keep comparing Matsui to both Berkman and Thames? The apt comparison is Matsui/Thames versus Berkman/Thames. As I stated above, I bet that Brian and Joe would prefer the former right now. I know I would.

[ymike673]

Why do you keep comparing Matsui to both Berkman and Thames? The apt comparison is Matsui/Thames versus Berkman/Thames. As I stated above, I bet that Brian and Joe would prefer the former right now. I know I would.

I wanted Matsui kept but do you think had they retained Matsui Cash signs Thames? Since Matsui has always hit LHP well I doubt that Cash even looks at Thames if he had retained Matsui.

[False1]

I wanted Matsui kept but do you think had they retained Matsui Cash signs Thames? Since Matsui has always hit LHP well I doubt that Cash even looks at Thames if he had retained Matsui.

Also possible that Thames takes a minor league deal for slightly less elsewhere if Matsui signs.

Matsui had an insane September rebound from a rough start, but I didn't see anyone calling Cashman out on him when he was hitting .229 / .305 / .389 up to June, or even .251 /.331 / .418 up to August. He deserves to be recognized for hitting well on the balance and being in the lineup regularly in spite of the bad knees. Many of us said when Matsui walked away that it was probably a "better a year too soon than a year too late" scenario. I hated to see him go (like with many other fans he's a favorite of mine) but I still kind of feel this way.

Rajah - would you sign him for '11? He'd probably do another 1 year deal for about the same amount, and even with Montero waiting in the wings if you think he's still the 125 OPS+ Matsui and can stay in the lineup... just curious.

[False1]

Why do you keep comparing Matsui to both Berkman and Thames? The apt comparison is Matsui/Thames versus Berkman/Thames. As I stated above, I bet that Brian and Joe would prefer the former right now. I know I would.

It's not a certainty we'd have Thames if we signed Matsui. But to answer your question, I'd prefer Matsui the way he's hitting now against RHP to Berkman, but it's not a vast chasm of production we're talking here. Berkman still rakes RHP, and we have Thames to rake LHP. We'll never know how Matsui would fare in the '10 playoffs, but I'm not overly concerned about our DH platoon and PH tandem going into the playoffs.

[kan_t]

Just want to remind Cashman that Lee is a must sign.

[rajah]

A couple of responses:

1) I agree that having Berkman rather than Matsui is probably not a big deal. It might work out well this way. I hope so. I just had a particular affection for Matsui.

2) Even so, I would not re-sign him for 2011. That ship has sailed.

3) To tell the truth, what I really questioned last winter was Cashman's apparent preference for Damon over Matsui. I thought, and think, they were both done as decent OFers, and I thought, and think, Matsui had more left as a hitter. I actually had high hopes for NJ and thought it was a good risk.

[JohnnyEllis]

Cashman was thisclose to getting Cliff Lee at the deadline. I don't think he needs any reminders.

He went for the kill. Whatever one thinks of his particular moves (this offseason...), you have to respect his dark little heart.

[hellonewman]

I was merely expanding upon my original point which you seemed to disagree with. Obviously there was the nebulous injury risk, which like I said is impossible to quantify. I have never heard of slow healing before, perhaps you can provide a reference? There was no way for Cashman to know with any certainty if his past was going to project and no rational reason for him to presume it would. It was a possibility. Him getting injured let alone getting injured as early and severely as he was contributing absolutely nothing was a worst case scenario, not a forgone conclusion.

It was a risk that didn't pay off and the team is still great.

I would sign him for the right price like anyone with an upside.

The problem is, you're setting certainty of failure as the threshold at which a given course of action can be described as a poor risk. That's what I disagreed with. Nick Johnson has an ample injury history (and contrary to the claims that are sometimes made that his injuries are completely random, this year's was his 5th injury to the hand/wrist area), so in my standard which requires less than 100% certainty, he is a poor injury risk.

That said, let me make it clear I don't think this is one for which Cashman should be boiled in oil as some seem to want. As DH errors are usually pretty correctible — as this one was — it was a low-impact mistake. I'm just not going to credit it as a good move because it might have worked, which is what I see some people doing.

[hellonewman]

Right, but the guy was coming off a 130 game season, was going to be used strictly as a DH and as you say this was a risk/reward decision. The risk was absolutely priced into the deal. Johnson gets far more than 1/$5.75MM if he doesn't have an injury history. FAR MORE.

I never said it was a grievous or irreparable mistake, only a reasonably foreseeable one.

[bomber999]

Unless Cliff Lee rocks the ALDS and ALCS, I wouldn't throw ridiculous money at him.

We can still get by quite well with CC, Hughes, Andy and Burnett. Phil will be a solid #2 next year, and I'd like them to finally stick to making Joba a starter.


We will need a defensive catcher, and Cervelli is not the answer. I say bring Jose Molina back until Austin Romine is ready.

Are you satisfied after watching today's performance against the Rays, or do you still feel like Lee needs to prove his worth this post-season? He is getting big money, and it absolutely should and needs to be from us. I think that you are looking at our rotation through rose-colored glasses. CC is a horse, agreed; however, Pettitte (if he comes back) will be another year older, certainly no lock even to maintain his present level of performance, and injury concerns will be the norm for him until he retires; Hughes showed progress this year but has nowhere near proven that he can be a consistent #2 starter for a team with championship aspirations- he clearly needs further development as a pitcher, particularly in terms of secondary pitches, if he is going to be an elite starter in this league; frankly, I can't believe you even cite AJ Burnett and Joba as reasons why we don't need Lee- Burnett is a joke, and what in Joba's performance this year tells you that he can be an effective SP, even if the organization decides to send him down to AAA for this purpose (highly doubtful).

Cliff Lee is not a luxury for us. With him, we probably have the most dominant top 2 starters in baseball and become instant WS favorites; without him, we have a pretty dubious rotation and are considerably weaker. I would actually like to see the Yankees deal Burnett- they will only be able to do a headache-for-headache deal, and I think Chone Figgins could turn into an (albeit expensive) super utility guy for us, as he could spell ARod, Jeter, and even Cano and still give us respectability in our lineup when he is in there. I would like to see the team give Nova a shot at #5 starter if Pettitte doesn't come back.

[gold23]

Why do you keep comparing Matsui to both Berkman and Thames? The apt comparison is Matsui/Thames versus Berkman/Thames. As I stated above, I bet that Brian and Joe would prefer the former right now. I know I would.

Because it's exactly how the lineup for the next month will be affected. Matsui would be playing every day as DH, while Thames/Berkman will likely split duties.

[gold23]

A couple of responses:

1) I agree that having Berkman rather than Matsui is probably not a big deal. It might work out well this way. I hope so. I just had a particular affection for Matsui.

2) Even so, I would not re-sign him for 2011. That ship has sailed.

3) To tell the truth, what I really questioned last winter was Cashman's apparent preference for Damon over Matsui. I thought, and think, they were both done as decent OFers, and I thought, and think, Matsui had more left as a hitter. I actually had high hopes for NJ and thought it was a good risk.

Gonna agree with everything here. The only thing I will say is that the most important factor with Matsui is something none of us know. What the doctors thought about his knees.

[bomber999]

Everyone still happy that we didn't trade for Halladay out of not wanting to part with Joba?

[Jax Teller]

Everyone still happy that we didn't trade for Halladay out of not wanting to part with Joba?

Who didn't want to part with Joba? It was Montero we (most of us) didn't want to see get shipped out.

[bomber999]

Who didn't want to part with Joba? It was Montero we (most of us) didn't want to see get shipped out.

I remember Joba being the sticking point, and a lot of angst on this board about trading him, but Montero makes more sense.

[Jax Teller]

I honestly don't remember any angst about parting with Joba this season. Maybe after his '08 season, I can understand that because he looked like a future cost controlled ace.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I honestly don't remember any angst about parting with Joba this season. Maybe after his '08 season, I can understand that because he looked like a future cost controlled ace.

And the Jays have shown a deep disinclination for trading within the division. Were they the team that asked for Joba and Hughes? Not sure if that is true, but I remember their AL East price being ridiculous

[bomber999]

I honestly don't remember any angst about parting with Joba this season. Maybe after his '08 season, I can understand that because he looked like a future cost controlled ace.

Speaking about Montero, I haven't heard any baseball person remark that they think he will stick as a ML catcher. Everyone I've heard sees him as a DH/1B type. Obviously, Teixeira blocks him at 1B, and we have a ton of older players whom the DH slot is tailor-made for. Where exactly is Montero going to fit? Don't kill me for asking, but might he have more value to us as a potential trade asset?