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  1. #9726

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm certain Nolan Ryan can still throw harder than Cashman, but there is no evidence that he is a better scout single-handedly than the entire Yankee FO.

    Ryan gambled big in letting Wilson walk for about 75% of the cost and 1 less year than Darvish. Wilson has been very effective with the Angels so far, and Darvish has shown his stuff is legit. Will be interesting to watch.

    And IMHO signing Darvish was a logical (if unfortunate) risk/reward decision. If he pitches like an ace for 6 years. If he doesn't, you're overpaying him. If he busts, you're really hurting your team not just by trotting him out there but by tying up payroll that can't be reinvested elsewhere. Given where the Yankee payroll is and how much they have tied up in other aging players, the risk outweighed the reward.

    Based on what I'm hearing in this thread it sounds very doubtful that there are going to go all in for Hammels or any other top free agent pitcher.

  2. #9727
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Based on what I'm hearing in this thread it sounds very doubtful that there are going to go all in for Hammels or any other top free agent pitcher.
    Based on what we heard in this thread and from public comments from the FO it was doubtful they were going to go all in on Tex. It helps this team to say they are going to be more restrained in spending in future offseasons.

    I'm sure that is a clear goal, but where I'm not sure is that they'll forsake their goal of perennial WS contender to achieve it. If the rotation is not WS caliber next season it wouldn't shock me at all to see them make an under-the-radar run at a guy like Hamels even though it obliterates the shot at getting under $189MM.

  3. #9728
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The Rangers are at a different place than the Yankees in regard to gambling on Darvish. If the Yankees were well below the luxury tax threshold like Texas and not paying out revenue sharing checks to clubs like Texas, the Yankees probably would've tried to sign Darvish more aggressively.
    Right - plus the fact the risk in Texas is lower.
    Darvish won't have to face AL East teams on a fairly regular basis.
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  4. #9729
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The Rangers are at a different place than the Yankees in regard to gambling on Darvish. If the Yankees were well below the luxury tax threshold like Texas and not paying out revenue sharing checks to clubs like Texas, the Yankees probably would've tried to sign Darvish more aggressively.
    I agree completely.

  5. #9730
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post

    Regarding Yu Darvish, I don't know what happened there. Was it the Steibrenners unwilling to spend or Cashman not wanting to take a chance on another Japanese pitcher? None of us know for sure. But consider this, for Texas Nolan Ryan evaluated Darvish, for our side it was Cashman and his team. Who do you think had a better chance of getting that one right?
    You know Ryan isn't their GM, right? Jon Daniels is, and he's also one of the better ones in the game. He also traded Soriano for four duds and got rid of Chris Young (pitcher) and Adrian Gonzalez in the same trade. I somehow don't think Cashman would have survived that one.

    He's an excellent GM, but I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that even the better ones make major mistakes once in a while.

  6. #9731
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    You know Ryan isn't their GM, right? Jon Daniels is, and he's also one of the better ones in the game. He also traded Soriano for four duds and got rid of Chris Young (pitcher) and Adrian Gonzalez in the same trade. I somehow don't think Cashman would have survived that one.

    He's an excellent GM, but I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that even the better ones make major mistakes once in a while.
    The other point about that is that they took a calculated risk to try and replace C.J. Wilson with Darvish. I'm not so sure both teams were in the same place in regards to bringing on another long-term contract and overall perspective on Darvish.
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  7. #9732

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The Rangers are at a different place than the Yankees in regard to gambling on Darvish. If the Yankees were well below the luxury tax threshold like Texas and not paying out revenue sharing checks to clubs like Texas, the Yankees probably would've tried to sign Darvish more aggressively.
    This makes effective costs to the Yankees lower than to Rangers.

    Posting fees don't count toward luxury tax.

  8. #9733

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    whether the yankees bet on pineda a bit too much and didn't get darvish, or suffered from the soriano contract too much to get darvish and thereby getting pineda, we may never know.
    always reasonable

  9. #9734
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    This makes effective costs to the Yankees lower than to Rangers.

    Posting fees don't count toward luxury tax.
    I don't see that, unless you're arguing that the Yankees would have spent $100 million on some other pitcher. The Yankees would stil pay 40% on $57MM. The Rangers pay no lux tax.

  10. #9735

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    So its seems the concensus is that decisions are being driven in part with the objective of staying under 189 million in 2014. I still don't understand how that objective impacted the Pineda, Montero, Darvish decisions. For example we could have kept Montero and simply signed Darvish. Since the posting fee doesn't count as salary, the impact on payrol in 2014 would have been the 10 million a year Darvish makes plus what Montero would be making in year three of his career, as opposed to what Pineda will be making in year 4 of his career plus the cost of a DH. Forgive me, but I simply don't see the great savings that everyone is talking about. Am I missing something?

  11. #9736

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Just read an article from that jerk/Yankee hater Wally Matthews did with Cashman earlier today regarding the Pineda deal. To Cashman's credit, while he looks terrible right now and from other previous pitching disasters, he's not running away from his mistake, as of now anyway, or blaming the Mariners, making excuses.

    The fact that it's at least a possibility Pineda can join Feliciano in throwing for a combined zero pitches in official games for the Yankees is pretty damn frustrating. You never know with young pitchers-way too risky and Cashman has awful luck.

  12. #9737
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    So its seems the concensus is that decisions are being driven in part with the objective of staying under 189 million in 2014. I still don't understand how that objective impacted the Pineda, Montero, Darvish decisions. For example we could have kept Montero and simply signed Darvish. Since the posting fee doesn't count as salary, the impact on payrol in 2014 would have been the 10 million a year Darvish makes plus what Montero would be making in year three of his career, as opposed to what Pineda will be making in year 4 of his career plus the cost of a DH. Forgive me, but I simply don't see the great savings that everyone is talking about. Am I missing something?
    Yea, the fact that the $50M posting fee wasn't with monopoly money.

  13. #9738

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Cashman is saying more about the subject than he actually needs to, imo.

  14. #9739
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Yea, the fact that the $50M posting fee wasn't with monopoly money.
    This, plus the fact that it's up front, plus they wouldn't have Kuroda.

    Ideally we should have Kuroda, Pineda, Ibanez, Campos and payroll flexibility after this year in place of Darvish, Montero and Noesi.

    While Pineda's injury and Darvish blowing the Yankees away makes that approach look questionable at best point in time, I don't disagree with the logic and not quite ready to say it won't work with a horizon beyond this year.

  15. #9740

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    This, plus the fact that it's up front, plus they wouldn't have Kuroda.

    Ideally we should have Kuroda, Pineda, Ibanez, Campos and payroll flexibility after this year in place of Darvish, Montero and Noesi.

    While Pineda's injury and Darvish blowing the Yankees away makes that approach look questionable at best point in time, I don't disagree with the logic and not quite ready to say it won't work with a horizon beyond this year.
    I wonder what the team would look like if Andy was able to be ready by ST.
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  16. #9741

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    This makes effective costs to the Yankees lower than to Rangers.

    Posting fees don't count toward luxury tax.
    I never said it did, but it's still a lot of cash spent at once when you're paying off a stadium, paying luxury tax and revenue sharing with a 200+M payroll. Again, the Yankees are in a different place financially when it comes to risk and reward than the Rangers which is my main point.

  17. #9742
    Larry Walker's Fanclub Rocketman's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Cashman is saying more about the subject than he actually needs to, imo.
    You know, I would agree with you but this is a particularly egregious situation. Montero was easily the most hyped/highly rated Yankee position prospect since Derek Jeter, and he had previously been dangled as a trade chip intended to net Roy Halladay (the best pitcher in baseball) and Cliff Lee (the second best pitcher in baseball).

    Instead of getting someone similarly talented, Montero was traded for a guy who may contribute less than a bag of baseballs - and people rightly are concerned that Cashman screwed up.

    Am I crazy, or is having Pineda's arm fixed by the Mets team doctor not a very good sign, either?

  18. #9743

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Cashman is saying more about the subject than he actually needs to, imo.
    Yeah, he's sharing his misgivings to the fanbase, but would it be better for him to remain defiant about the trade, thus appearing arrogant when let's face it, the trade as of right now went south on the Yankees and their fanbase. There's a good chance, the trade will turn out better in time, but a year or so from now is a long time in baseball life.

    IMO, I think everybody in the Yankee Universe is feeling down right now and maybe, a little sorry for themselves. Cashman doing so, shows he's human, but he needs to get over it and move on as our team needs him to get this team back in order pitching-wise.

  19. #9744

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    You know, I would agree with you but this is a particularly egregious situation. Montero was easily the most hyped/highly rated Yankee position prospect since Derek Jeter, and he had previously been dangled as a trade chip intended to net Roy Halladay (the best pitcher in baseball) and Cliff Lee (the second best pitcher in baseball).

    Instead of getting someone similarly talented, Montero was traded for a guy who may contribute less than a bag of baseballs - and people rightly are concerned that Cashman screwed up.

    Am I crazy, or is having Pineda's arm fixed by the Mets team doctor not a very good sign, either?
    He's one of the best shoulder surgeons in the business. Furthermore, as I keep telling people who will listen, there isn't a MLB team out there that doesn't have more than their share of medical horror stories. We just pay more attention to those problems in regard to New York teams. However, if you do some checking, those issues are industry-related.

  20. #9745
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    It's quite remarkable how this rotation went from a strength to an utter trainwreck.

  21. #9746

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    It's quite remarkable how this rotation went from a strength to an utter trainwreck.
    Very Red Soxesque.


  22. #9747

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I just hope Pettitte rides to the rescue better than Clemens did in 2007.

  23. #9748

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    It's quite remarkable how this rotation went from a strength to an utter trainwreck.
    Hang on ... Kuroda pitched great his last time out, and Nova is fine too. When Pettitte comes back, I like our top four just fine, at least for the regular season. It's only the fifth spot that's terrible.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  24. #9749
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Hang on ... Kuroda pitched great his last time out, and Nova is fine too. When Pettitte comes back, I like our top four just fine, at least for the regular season. It's only the fifth spot that's terrible.

    You really do not need a fifth starter once the post season starts.

  25. #9750

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I don't see that, unless you're arguing that the Yankees would have spent $100 million on some other pitcher. The Yankees would stil pay 40% on $57MM. The Rangers pay no lux tax.
    They only pay the 40% on the amount over the luxury tax limit
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