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  1. #8551

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Jon Daniels traded away Soriano and Adrian Gonzalez (along with Chris Young) in the same offseason. The next year he got rid of John Danks.

    Vizcaino might be that guy for Cashman, but it's way too early to tell.
    Right, every long-term GM is going to have at least one of those guys and probably more than one or two.

  2. #8552
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    It depends on the prospect.

    However, I've seen too many IFA prospects flame out after short season "A" ball.

    I can understand why many Yankee fans then and now have major problems with that trade. Looking back, so do I. However, I can understand the reasoning why Cashman did so as there were rumors about Vizciano's work habits and such. Maybe, that's BS, but the trade was done and the only thing Yankee fans have left to hope for is that Vizcaino doesn't turn out to be as great as some think he might be and that Dante Jr., doesn't flame out in the minors and has a good ML career.
    I have no problems with the trade. If you aren't prepared to take calculated gambles with high risk/high reward (and very delayed reward) assets then you can't be a GM, especially a yankee gm that only needs 1 piece to make his team likely to get to the WS

  3. #8553
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Right, every long-term GM is going to have at least one of those guys and probably more than one or two.
    If they don't they aren't trying

  4. #8554

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    I have no problems with the trade. If you aren't prepared to take calculated gambles with high risk/high reward (and very delayed reward) assets then you can't be a GM, especially a yankee gm that only needs 1 piece to make his team likely to get to the WS
    I don't have a problem with the trade either, but as a Yankee fan, I have a problem with the results. Unlike Cashman, I'm just a lowly, emotional Yankee fan.

  5. #8555

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    If they don't they aren't trying
    In that business, you got to take some risks at times.

  6. #8556
    werkt fir mee Huktonfonix's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Ridiculous monday morning quarterbacking aside, the performance of Dante Bichette Jr would have to be considered alongside that of Arodys in evaluating that trade.
    42 is the answer

    Gets to see even more of AJ Burnett now!

  7. #8557

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Huktonfonix View Post
    Ridiculous monday morning quarterbacking aside, the performance of Dante Bichette Jr would have to be considered alongside that of Arodys in evaluating that trade.
    Frankly, he is probably our only hope at this time. Unless, you're wishing bad things for young Arodys.

  8. #8558
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    This discussion is so lame. Everyone has decided now that they have great hindsight and just knew that Vasquez wouldn't be good, but he had just come off 3 straight years of good FIP and xFIP, 2 of which were in the AL. Once again, here is the main reason Vasquez wasn't good:

    2009 FB vel with Braves: 91.1 mph
    2010 FB vel with Yankees: 88.7 mph

    He lost his fastball. He wasn't 39, he was 33. Everyone is just such a genius, they KNEW it was going to happen. I think it was a good trade from a Yankee perspective. Talented class A pitcher (so even if he's a success, you are talking 2+ years away, which is less valuable success especially from a Yankee perspective) for a pitcher coming off a Cy Young type year and 3 straight years of good peripherals on a good contract and that also would probably net comp draft picks. super duper hindsight powers!
    It's lame that someone doesn't agree with you. Adorable.

    It isn't hindsight when you hate a trade at the time so spare me this condescending BS.

  9. #8559
    werkt fir mee Huktonfonix's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    This discussion is so lame. Everyone has decided now that they have great hindsight and just knew that Vasquez wouldn't be good, but he had just come off 3 straight years of good FIP and xFIP, 2 of which were in the AL. Once again, here is the main reason Vasquez wasn't good:

    2009 FB vel with Braves: 91.1 mph
    2010 FB vel with Yankees: 88.7 mph

    He lost his fastball. He wasn't 39, he was 33. Everyone is just such a genius, they KNEW it was going to happen. I think it was a good trade from a Yankee perspective. Talented class A pitcher (so even if he's a success, you are talking 2+ years away, which is less valuable success especially from a Yankee perspective) for a pitcher coming off a Cy Young type year and 3 straight years of good peripherals on a good contract and that also would probably net comp draft picks. super duper hindsight powers!
    This is pretty much spot on. No one thought Vazquez would fall apart at age 33 coming off a season where he was #2 in Cy Young voting. They thought he'd be, at worst, a very very good 4th starter. We all knew it might hurt to give up Vizcaino, but he was much further removed from the MLB than he was from his amateur days, and Vazquez was pretty much a sure thing to net draft picks in a deep draft, so a single A player could be replaced.
    42 is the answer

    Gets to see even more of AJ Burnett now!

  10. #8560

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Huktonfonix View Post
    This is pretty much spot on. No one thought Vazquez would fall apart at age 33 coming off a season where he was #2 in Cy Young voting. They thought he'd be, at worst, a very very good 4th starter. We all knew it might hurt to give up Vizcaino, but he was much further removed from the MLB than he was from his amateur days, and Vazquez was pretty much a sure thing to net draft picks in a deep draft, so a single A player could be replaced.

    Yeah I dont blame Cashman for how it turned out, they were going for back to back titles and didnt want to do it with 3 starters again.
    If you listen to the fans you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.- Brian Cashman

  11. #8561
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    This discussion is so lame. Everyone has decided now that they have great hindsight and just knew that Vasquez wouldn't be good, but he had just come off 3 straight years of good FIP and xFIP, 2 of which were in the AL. Once again, here is the main reason Vasquez wasn't good:

    2009 FB vel with Braves: 91.1 mph
    2010 FB vel with Yankees: 88.7 mph

    He lost his fastball. He wasn't 39, he was 33. Everyone is just such a genius, they KNEW it was going to happen. I think it was a good trade from a Yankee perspective. Talented class A pitcher (so even if he's a success, you are talking 2+ years away, which is less valuable success especially from a Yankee perspective) for a pitcher coming off a Cy Young type year and 3 straight years of good peripherals on a good contract and that also would probably net comp draft picks. super duper hindsight powers!
    Couldn't agree more. The trade didn't work out, but I understood it at the time. Vazquez was on a 1 year deal, had a shot of netting us 2 draft picks for type A FA while giving us flexibility in the event some young arms (or other better FA's) came available.

    FWIW, we did get Dante Bichette Jr as the compensation pick for Vazquez when he signed with the Marlins, and while I haven't seen him play he seems to be hitting pretty dang well in GCL as an 18 year old (.340 / .456 / .515). I know, I know... GCL - but still.

    Edit - and as usual, Huktonfonix beats me to the punch.

  12. #8562
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    It's lame that someone doesn't agree with you. Adorable.

    It isn't hindsight when you hate a trade at the time so spare me this condescending BS.
    Haha. very great factual rebuttal, i commend you

  13. #8563
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Haha. very great factual rebuttal, i commend you
    It is factual unless you don't know what the word hindsight means.

  14. #8564

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Couldn't agree more. The trade didn't work out, but I understood it at the time. Vazquez was on a 1 year deal, had a shot of netting us 2 draft picks for type A FA while giving us flexibility in the event some young arms (or other better FA's) came available.

    FWIW, we did get Dante Bichette Jr as the compensation pick for Vazquez when he signed with the Marlins, and while I haven't seen him play he seems to be hitting pretty dang well in GCL as an 18 year old (.340 / .456 / .515). I know, I know... GCL - but still.

    Edit - and as usual, Huktonfonix beats me to the punch.
    Actually, I beat him to punch regarding Dante Jr.

  15. #8565
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/08/the...eliever-54350/

    Cash deserves major props for this one.

  16. #8566

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Definitely. Wade has proven to be a hell of a pickup.

  17. #8567
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/08/the...eliever-54350/

    Cash deserves major props for this one.
    Yep. He's real solid. Imagine this pen had a healthy Joba in it? When Hughes heads to the pen in a week or two, it'll be insanely deep.

  18. #8568
    The forgotten hero hellonewman's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/08/the...eliever-54350/

    Cash deserves major props for this one.
    Wade is the coda to Cashman's Garcia/Colon Dumpster-diving magnum opus. Amazing how much good pitching Cashman has dragged out of the sewer this year. Journeyman relievers sometimes surprise you with "hot" years amidst their generally desultory careers, and Cashman found Wade at exactly the right juncture in time.

    I'll be really, REALLY impressed if Cash has the sense to dump Wade after this season.

  19. #8569
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Yep. He's real solid. Imagine this pen had a healthy Joba in it? When Hughes heads to the pen in a week or two, it'll be insanely deep.
    They're going to need it when Burnett takes the ball every 5th day....
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  20. #8570

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    They're going to need it when Burnett takes the ball every 5th day....
    I'm not debating Burnett staying in the rotation, but he's pitched into the 6th to 8th innings 9 out of his last 10 starts so the bullpen.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4153/aj-burnett

  21. #8571

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I'd make the Javy trade again, and I loved it at the time. To be able to get a Cy Young quality starter the year before, in his early 30's, for a talented single A player is as close to a no-brainer in my mind as possible. Vazquez inexplicably lost his stuff. Oh well.

  22. #8572

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    Wade is the coda to Cashman's Garcia/Colon Dumpster-diving magnum opus. Amazing how much good pitching Cashman has dragged out of the sewer this year. Journeyman relievers sometimes surprise you with "hot" years amidst their generally desultory careers, and Cashman found Wade at exactly the right juncture in time.

    I'll be really, REALLY impressed if Cash has the sense to dump Wade after this season.
    Well....Wade has pretty darn good career ML numbers. You can make a case that his one subpar year in the bigs was actually the blip, not the other way around. Since he's become a reliever he's had several excellent seasons (with one complete year in the big leagues as a very good reliever), with only one blip. In that blip year, he pitched a total of 50 innings in minors and majors, and two things were relatively high- his walks weren't in line with his career numbers, and he gave up too many home runs. Considering he missed 2010 for shoulder surgery, my guess is that it's a pretty strong indication he was hurt.

    It's pretty clear that the Yanks should hold onto Wade. At worst, he's probably suited for his role right now- middle reliever. At best, he's a wonderful middle reliever capable of taking the ball in bigger spots.

  23. #8573

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    I'd also like to review the Aceves conversation again. I've been squarely on board with not signing him since the day the Sox inked him to their deal, primarily because I didn't think he fit in the pen with the risk and $ associated. Even though he's pitched well (and none of us didn't think Ace would not do so if healthy...he's a good pitcher), it's still the right move and is playing out perfectly fine. The Yanks have a cheaper pen, at least as effective of a pen, and they didn't hitch themselves to a guy coming off back surgery.

  24. #8574

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Without the benefit of hindsight, picking up Vazquez was a coup.

    Cashman needed to free up money to accommodate Vazquez on the payroll... then he got Vazquez for relatively few prospects.

  25. #8575

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    Wade is the coda to Cashman's Garcia/Colon Dumpster-diving magnum opus. Amazing how much good pitching Cashman has dragged out of the sewer this year. Journeyman relievers sometimes surprise you with "hot" years amidst their generally desultory careers, and Cashman found Wade at exactly the right juncture in time.

    I'll be really, REALLY impressed if Cash has the sense to dump Wade after this season.
    Gotta say that in spite of due diligence and scouting there was a great deal of luck involved in Colon and Freddy producing as they have

    Going forward I'd be happier if they can work on developing our own pitchers and not have to depend on pulling rabbits out of a hat. For the pen that approach makes a lot of sense- for the rotation, not so much
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdvM0IB5Sbs

    MICRO PASSIVE/MICRO AGGRESSIVE

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