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  1. #101

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    IMHO Jeter has a few good years left as a SS. After that, who knows? My guess is that if the team would benefit by moving him to the outfield, he would do it.

  2. #102

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeeman61
    Nobody said anything about being an exception to aging. You just refuse to allow for an exceptional athlete going the extra mile to perform at the same level into their late 30's and even early 40's. Jeter's "sudden improvement" as you put it was actually quite close to his career norm. The automatic assumption that every player will go into "rapid decline" in their late 30's is where you are wrong. Maybe you have never heard of Nolan Ryan who struck out 300 batters at age 42 and threw his 7th no-hitter at age 44? And please don't start with the whole SS is a tougher position nonsense. The only position tougher in the physical sense over pitching is catcher. Ozzie Smith was still pretty damn good defensively at SS until retirement and even had his 2 best offensive years at age 36 and 37.

    You know, we've been hearing this crap about Jeter declining for several years now. What is it going to take from Jeter to get it through your head that this guy is capable of doing whatever it takes to be successful? He has been the model of consistency as a hitter since day 1 and even quieted some of the critics on defense after he worked hard on his mobility. But, no. It's just a flicker of his former self according to your expert analysis. The friggin sky is still falling for some of you. So you think he is going to be in LF or off the team in 2011? Good luck with that prediction.

    Ahahahahaha!!!! Father Time you hear that? There is nothing you can do to thwart Jetes, nothing at all...he will just do...whatever it takes. So there, go peddle your aging shtick somewhere else...Jetes isn't buying it. What will it take to get that through your head? Because obviously this has nothing to do with nature and is some type of logic problem that you seem to not quite have the grasp of.
    Che Rodriguez - Freedom Fighter

  3. #103
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Reed Johnson & B. Gardner

    Is it a slow night on the NYYFans board that there is a discussion of moving Derek Jeter to Left Field? I watched just about every game the Yankees played last season except for some that weren't on because of FOX on Saturday. And I thought Jeter had a great season both offensively and defensively. So if it works, why try to fix it?

    Right now, the Yankees are looking for a companion piece to alternate with Brett Gardner in left field, hopefully Reed Johnson who hits lefties well. When the time comes, I'm sure they'll find a place for Jeter to play just like they moved the great Mickey Mantle to 1st base. In fact, DiMaggio got moved to 1st base, but he retired shortly afterwards. Meanwhile, some of you sound like Jeter will probably be in need of a wheelchair a few years down the road.

    It's not worth discussing right now. With Jeter looking for a new contract, the topic will probably come up in negotiations and I'm sure things will work out fine. But for the immediate future, Jeter is our Captain and our Shortstop. End of discussion. Moderator, please close this thread. Thank you.
    [B][SIZE=3]I enjoyed the 2009 Yankees team probably more so than some of the teams that won the World Series in the past. We just never quit!!! [/SIZE][/B]

  4. #104
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome
    Why all the calls for moving Jeter from SS and not moving ARod from 3B to either 1B or the OF or DH. ARod is only one year younger than Jeter and if Jeter is ageing than isn't ARod or is there some bias against Jeter shown here?
    Jeter would be more successful in the outfield than Alex.......you ever notice how tentative Alex is on popups? I don't think the Jeter move would be taking place in the next few years unless Derek has reached his peak at 35 and will now be in a decline playing ss.

  5. #105

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    It wouldn't be the off-season without our traditional 'Jeter to the outfield' post.

  6. #106

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeeman61
    Place your bets.
    Here's my bet- the Yanks have an eye on a key situation at SS for after the 2010 season.

    Hanley Ramirez.

    HRam's contract is affordable this season, but hits $11M in 2011- which would be something along the lines of 1/3 to 1/2 of the Marlin's payroll. At the same time, Josh Johnson and Nolasco get very expensive through arbitration after this season. The Marlins know that much of their ability to remain competitive is in the pitching- which means they are vital players.

    Here's a thought- assuming the Yanks do not make any more major trades this season involving prospects or younger guys, here is one scenario:

    The Yanks could approach the Marlins in September about a deal starting with Montero and Joba, and ask the Marlins about who else would need to be in such a deal for HRam. It might take till the December meetings to get the ball moving, but assuming that Montero and Joba continue to impress, that would be the basis of a solid offer for HRam.

    Keep in mind for the Marlins that they would get a cost-controlled power hitter at a difficult position to fill (C), another power arm that the Marlins value so highly (Joba), and then likely 2-3 good prospects added in.

    At the same time, the Marlins would get the cost savings while getting numerous valuable players- allowing them to keep other younger players (Josh Johnson and Ricky Nolasco) for several more years- or allow them to move one for more key pieces.

    I think the Marlins recognize that HRam is a core component, but when you can get several players who could be as important in a couple years, they might make the move.

    For the Yanks, the benefits are obvious- young SS, big bat, speed and athleticism. The costs would be very high, but bringing in such a major player would likely silence any criticism from all but the Jeter apologists.

  7. #107

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Reed Johnson & B. Gardner

    Quote Originally Posted by JOE COOL
    End of discussion. Moderator, please close this thread. Thank you.
    Free speech much?

  8. #108

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Jeter will get next contract with Yankees ... He will stay at Shortstop for sure until 3000 hits after that it depends on his defense.Why we have to have this same discussion over and over again

  9. #109

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Why would Jeter's hit total have anything to do with his defensive position?

  10. #110
    Moderator Stick Michael's Avatar
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Reed Johnson & B. Gardner

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseDaGun
    Free speech much?
    Privately owned site, not public. No one's civil rights are being violated if censorship is used here. That being said, there's no reason to end this discussion. The idea that Jeter might end his career as something other than a shortstop seems entirely plausible.

  11. #111
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Reed Johnson & B. Gardner

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Michael
    Privately owned site, not public. No one's civil rights are being violated if censorship is used here. That being said, there's no reason to end this discussion. The idea that Jeter might end his career as something other than a shortstop seems entirely plausible.
    It seems equally as plausible that he will end his career as a Shortstop.

    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  12. #112
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    Here's my bet- the Yanks have an eye on a key situation at SS for after the 2010 season.

    Hanley Ramirez.

    HRam's contract is affordable this season, but hits $11M in 2011- which would be something along the lines of 1/3 to 1/2 of the Marlin's payroll. At the same time, Josh Johnson and Nolasco get very expensive through arbitration after this season. The Marlins know that much of their ability to remain competitive is in the pitching- which means they are vital players.

    Here's a thought- assuming the Yanks do not make any more major trades this season involving prospects or younger guys, here is one scenario:

    The Yanks could approach the Marlins in September about a deal starting with Montero and Joba, and ask the Marlins about who else would need to be in such a deal for HRam. It might take till the December meetings to get the ball moving, but assuming that Montero and Joba continue to impress, that would be the basis of a solid offer for HRam.

    Keep in mind for the Marlins that they would get a cost-controlled power hitter at a difficult position to fill (C), another power arm that the Marlins value so highly (Joba), and then likely 2-3 good prospects added in.

    At the same time, the Marlins would get the cost savings while getting numerous valuable players- allowing them to keep other younger players (Josh Johnson and Ricky Nolasco) for several more years- or allow them to move one for more key pieces.

    I think the Marlins recognize that HRam is a core component, but when you can get several players who could be as important in a couple years, they might make the move.

    For the Yanks, the benefits are obvious- young SS, big bat, speed and athleticism. The costs would be very high, but bringing in such a major player would likely silence any criticism from all but the Jeter apologists.
    i doubt hanley becomes a yankee. they certainly aren't gonna trade for him.
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  13. #113
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    The Yanks could approach the Marlins in September about a deal starting with Montero and Joba, and ask the Marlins about who else would need to be in such a deal for HRam. It might take till the December meetings to get the ball moving, but assuming that Montero and Joba continue to impress, that would be the basis of a solid offer for HRam.
    Usually you have pretty sound arguments. But, no way no how does Cashman trade 4 guys for Hanley.
    "Well guess what? He's dead. You just signed a dead guy." --pleasepassthesoup

  14. #114

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneTravis
    Usually you have pretty sound arguments. But, no way no how does Cashman trade 4 guys for Hanley.
    HRam is slightly different than most.

    Cashman refused to give up 4 for Santana, and apparently offered Montero straight up for Halladay. These were the correct moves NOT to make those trades for two reasons. One- pitching, IMO, is more risky than position players- blow out an arm, and the pitcher could be out 2 years- a fielder might miss a season. Two- they were both already 30+.

    HRam is MUCH younger, and at the second hardest position to fill offensively with high quality (C being the most difficult IMO).

    Let's just assume for a moment that Cashman makes a deal for HRam this coming winter. On opening day 2011, HRam will be 27 years old- and will be all season. Since HRam is an excellent hitter in addition to being a very good basestealer, one can assume a Jeter like career progression, where he runs less, but the bat maintains the potentcy. In short, you can project 10+ years of useful play out of HRam.

    That is the sort of player you can legitimately build a team around for a decade. It is VERY hard to project any player in the minors to a 10+ year career- projecting Montero is fun to do, but unless you are absolutely SURE he is a ML C, he really doesn't project to one of the hard to fill positions (he's a 1B/DH if he's not a C).

    If you are Cashman, you do have to seriously consider Montero plus 3 other guys for a cornerstone player.

    Think about it- you would have Cano and HRam up the middle well into the next decade, along with Tex at 1B for most of that time. ARod will eventually DH during that time. Assuming that the Yanks can find a starting C in the batch of prospects they have, that leaves the OF spots and 3B as needs (ignoring the pitching for now). That's better than looking at a series of substandard SS and shifting INF.

  15. #115

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    HRam is slightly different than most.

    Cashman refused to give up 4 for Santana, and apparently offered Montero straight up for Halladay. These were the correct moves NOT to make those trades for two reasons. One- pitching, IMO, is more risky than position players- blow out an arm, and the pitcher could be out 2 years- a fielder might miss a season. Two- they were both already 30+.

    HRam is MUCH younger, and at the second hardest position to fill offensively with high quality (C being the most difficult IMO).

    Let's just assume for a moment that Cashman makes a deal for HRam this coming winter. On opening day 2011, HRam will be 27 years old- and will be all season. Since HRam is an excellent hitter in addition to being a very good basestealer, one can assume a Jeter like career progression, where he runs less, but the bat maintains the potentcy. In short, you can project 10+ years of useful play out of HRam.

    That is the sort of player you can legitimately build a team around for a decade. It is VERY hard to project any player in the minors to a 10+ year career- projecting Montero is fun to do, but unless you are absolutely SURE he is a ML C, he really doesn't project to one of the hard to fill positions (he's a 1B/DH if he's not a C).

    If you are Cashman, you do have to seriously consider Montero plus 3 other guys for a cornerstone player.

    Think about it- you would have Cano and HRam up the middle well into the next decade, along with Tex at 1B for most of that time. ARod will eventually DH during that time. Assuming that the Yanks can find a starting C in the batch of prospects they have, that leaves the OF spots and 3B as needs (ignoring the pitching for now). That's better than looking at a series of substandard SS and shifting INF.
    HRam and Jeter are not similar players. I'm not sure why Jeter's career progression has anything to do with how HRam's will progress. There's no reason to believe that HRam will have a unique career arc (which Jeter does have), and thus we can't responsibly project 10+ years of decent play from HRam. Depends how you define useful though.

    Besides, given Cash's reluctance to trade young arms (Joba/Hughes, at least one of whom along with Montero would need to be included in a package for HRam)), it's highly unlikely we would trade for HRam.

  16. #116

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    I love the idea that you can guarantee a 27-year-old shortstop's performance for ten years. Somebody ask Nomar about that.

  17. #117
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    Let's just assume for a moment that Cashman makes a deal for HRam this coming winter. On opening day 2011, HRam will be 27 years old- and will be all season. Since HRam is an excellent hitter in addition to being a very good basestealer, one can assume a Jeter like career progression, where he runs less, but the bat maintains the potentcy. In short, you can project 10+ years of useful play out of HRam.
    Assuming anyone's career to progress like a first ballot hall of famer is absurd. Assuming they will progress like the best short ever (or at least top 3), is laughable and borderline insanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    That is the sort of player you can legitimately build a team around for a decade. It is VERY hard to project any player in the minors to a 10+ year career- projecting Montero is fun to do, but unless you are absolutely SURE he is a ML C, he really doesn't project to one of the hard to fill positions (he's a 1B/DH if he's not a C).
    It's funny that after assuming a 27 year old will progress like Jeter as though it was practically guaranteed, you slam on the brakes to remind everyone that nothing is set in stone when it comes to the development of players.

    Is this part of that law of averages you were telling us all about?
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  18. #118
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm A Wenner!
    I love the idea that you can guarantee a 27-year-old shortstop's performance for ten years. Somebody ask Nomar about that.
    Which Nomar.........pre or post PEDs??

  19. #119

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by yankee82093
    HRam and Jeter are not similar players. I'm not sure why Jeter's career progression has anything to do with how HRam's will progress. There's no reason to believe that HRam will have a unique career arc (which Jeter does have), and thus we can't responsibly project 10+ years of decent play from HRam. Depends how you define useful though.

    Besides, given Cash's reluctance to trade young arms (Joba/Hughes, at least one of whom along with Montero would need to be included in a package for HRam)), it's highly unlikely we would trade for HRam.
    Let's see where would I get the idea HRam was like Jeter...

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...amirha01.shtml

    Scroll to the bottom.

    There is nothing "unique" about projecting 10+ years of useful play from a 27 year old player. After 10 years, he's 37. There are DOZENS of useful 37 year old players in MLB.

    In fact, let's put up HRam's numbers:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...amirha01.shtml

    And Derek Jeter's numbers:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...eterde01.shtml

    In fact, they are similar players- looking at a similar age, they are both good OBP and good power hitters, who hit for high BA. Of course, HRam's speed isn't likely to age well- but Jeter has only had 2 30 SB seasons in his 30's. We could project similar loss of speed for HRam.

    Furthermore, we could even project some loss in power for HRam, and he's STILL be a good hitter. In short, he is a HITTER, not just a speed guy. Hitters age better- and at 26 right now, we can easily project 10 years on his career. Will all of those be All Star or HOF level? Who knows, but there is NOTHING unreasonable about projecting 10 more years for a player of HRam's skills when he is 26.

    Nonetheless, he would be a cornerstone player well into the projectable future- with his prime years arriving now.

  20. #120

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes
    Assuming anyone's career to progress like a first ballot hall of famer is absurd. Assuming they will progress like the best short ever (or at least top 3), is laughable and borderline insanity.



    It's funny that after assuming a 27 year old will progress like Jeter as though it was practically guaranteed, you slam on the brakes to remind everyone that nothing is set in stone when it comes to the development of players.

    Is this part of that law of averages you were telling us all about?
    This coming from the same person who insists that a 38 year old Posada who will catch 100 games is a superior hitter to Granderson, who will start over 140 games. Pot calling Kettle...Pot calling Kettle...

    My point about Montero (and all minor leaguers) was clear. You can't project a ML career on a minor leaguer. My exact words: "It is VERY hard to project any player in the minors to a 10+ year career." In short, you have to get to the bigs before we can assume a useful or long career.

    As for the comparison to Jeter of HRam, that isn't just me:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...amirha01.shtml

  21. #121

    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsui55
    Let's see where would I get the idea HRam was like Jeter...

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...amirha01.shtml

    Scroll to the bottom.

    There is nothing "unique" about projecting 10+ years of useful play from a 27 year old player. After 10 years, he's 37. There are DOZENS of useful 37 year old players in MLB.

    In fact, let's put up HRam's numbers:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...amirha01.shtml

    And Derek Jeter's numbers:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...eterde01.shtml

    In fact, they are similar players- looking at a similar age, they are both good OBP and good power hitters, who hit for high BA. Of course, HRam's speed isn't likely to age well- but Jeter has only had 2 30 SB seasons in his 30's. We could project similar loss of speed for HRam.

    Furthermore, we could even project some loss in power for HRam, and he's STILL be a good hitter. In short, he is a HITTER, not just a speed guy. Hitters age better- and at 26 right now, we can easily project 10 years on his career. Will all of those be All Star or HOF level? Who knows, but there is NOTHING unreasonable about projecting 10 more years for a player of HRam's skills when he is 26.

    Nonetheless, he would be a cornerstone player well into the projectable future- with his prime years arriving now.
    You're missing the point. Projecting anyone to have a similar career arc to Jeter is unrealistic. Guys who remain productive for this long are not the norm.

  22. #122
    Life is short. Drink beer yankeeman61's Avatar
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynasties R Forever View Post
    Ahahahahaha!!!! Father Time you hear that? There is nothing you can do to thwart Jetes, nothing at all...he will just do...whatever it takes. So there, go peddle your aging shtick somewhere else...Jetes isn't buying it. What will it take to get that through your head? Because obviously this has nothing to do with nature and is some type of logic problem that you seem to not quite have the grasp of.
    It's always interesting to revisit old threads. Right now Father Time is getting his azz kicked
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  23. #123
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    yup, this thread is funny with everyone predicting that Jeter would be washed up by now. Clearly the pressure of 3,000 got to him and it screwed with him, now that he's clear from that its not a problem
    The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes

  24. #124
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    Re: Here's an idea for LF....Derek Jeter....!

    Let's not jinx it! but yea jeet really is owning father time, its going to be interesting to see how the next 2-3 years pan out, i really don't want to think about the day i don't see the number 2 on the field.
    I'd like to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee fan

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