Fall of The Wall: Twenty Years Ago

[jlw1980]

I was just 9, but I remember what a good day it was.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnew...ling-down.html

The great philosophical divide of the 20th century was crumbling before our eyes. Hammers, chisels, even nail files whacked away at the Berlin Wall that day 20 years ago, reducing parts of it to dust. The symbolic front line of the Cold War, which snaked around the city for nearly 100 miles, claimed the lives of 136 East Germans who attempted to escape to freedom. And suddenly, after nearly 3 decades, an offhanded remark by a Communist apparatchik altered the course of history. On the night of November 9th, 1989, East German Politburo spokesman Guenter Schabowski announced travel restrictions between east and west would be lifted -- the genie was out of the bottle. “When?” asked stunned reporters. “As far as I know,” he stammered, “Immediately, without delay.” Jubilant East Berliners wasted no time.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=9031233

Chancellor Angela Merkel and former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev crossed a former fortified border on Monday to cheers of "Gorby! Gorby!" as a throng of grateful Germans recalled the night 20 years ago that the Berlin Wall gave way to their desire for freedom and unity.

Within hours of a confused announcement on Nov. 9, 1989 that East Germany was lifting travel restrictions, hundreds of people streamed into the enclave that was West Berlin, marking a pivotal moment in the collapse of communism in Europe.

Merkel, who grew up in East Germany and was one of thousands to cross that night, recalled that "before the joy of freedom came, many people suffered."

[BronxBaumer]

An amazing day for the return of pervasive and insidious European nationalism, which has led to millions dead and a disastrous drop in standard of living in many Eastern European and Asian countries.

[Bambino22]

The articles quoted are such fluff. There is plenty of good to be extracted from the fall of the GDR and then the U.S.S.R. but some of the stuff written is silly.

This did not answer any sort of great philosophical question. State-capitalism is not that far removed from a Keynesian liberal/'freemarket' capitalism. In terms of foreign policy nothing has changed either.

The U.S. has lost global influence since the fall of the U.S.S.R., not gained contrary to what all the ridiculous political types would've told you.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...634122,00.html

The majority of East Germans actually miss the GDR, and the loss of the state-capitalist network has resulted in some losses for third world countries and some of the labor movements.

The return of nationalism is never a good thing.

The GDR and USSR did eventually have to go for the world to be a better place, but hopefully it would've been for something more progressive and not what we have now.

[BronxBaumer]

The GDR and USSR did eventually have to go for the world to be a better place, but hopefully it would've been for something more progressive and not what we have now.

You mean all pervasive neo-nationalism which has done more to destroy the happy lives of Europeans and West Asians than anything in the last 50 years?

[Bambino22]

You mean all pervasive neo-nationalism which has done more to destroy the happy lives of Europeans and West Asians than anything in the last 50 years?

Yes. Something more progressive than that.

[jlw1980]

Really was hoping this didn't have to be political. Should've known better. Sigh. Thanks.

[Bambino22]

Really was hoping this didn't have to be political. Should've known better. Sigh. Thanks.

You posted two political articles.

[NYYDragoon]

Really was hoping this didn't have to be political. Should've known better. Sigh. Thanks.

You started a thread about a very political topic .

[TheYankee]

Really was hoping this didn't have to be political. Should've known better. Sigh. Thanks.

You posted something that cast heavy socialist leaning regimes in a negative light. That's bait that a few people can't resist. Plus, Reagan gets a lot of the credit, which just drives them mad.

I only wish I was a few years older so I would have remembered that wall coming down. Hearing Reagan's impassioned, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall," had to be one of those, "Where were you when..." moments.

[BronxBaumer]

Plus, Reagan gets a lot of the credit, which just drives them mad.

Reagan is responsible for the fall of the wall?

[TheYankee]

Reagan is responsible for the fall of the wall?

Case in point

[Bambino22]

You posted something that cast heavy socialist leaning regimes in a negative light.

http://www.benstoneonline.com/blog/w...-facepalm1.jpg

Plus, Reagan gets a lot of the credit, which just drives them mad.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica....ckerPicard.jpg

[jlw1980]

You started a thread about a very political topic .

It was to commemorate an anniversary.

[BronxBaumer]

Case in point

Saying the fall of the Berlin Wall is the result of Reagan would be as disingenuous as me saying that Obama won because the Germans liked him so much.

[NYYDragoon]

It was to commemorate an anniversary.

Hi Jenn! I'd like you to meet NYYFans! It is cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

[TheYankee]

Saying the fall of the Berlin Wall is the result of Reagan would be as disingenuous as me saying that Obama won because the Germans liked him so much.

Well, if you'd actually read what I post instead of seeing the words "Reagan" and "credit" and losing your mind, you'd see I said he receives "a lot of the credit," not that he receives all of it, nor that he deserves all of it. Only that he does, for better or worse. And, as you have so nicely demonstrated for us, it makes you go crazy.

[jlw1980]

Hi Jenn! I'd like you to meet NYYFans! It is cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

I lol'd.

[BronxBaumer]

Only that he does, for better or worse. And, as you have so nicely demonstrated for us, it makes you go crazy.

I'm not crazy. I'm just saying that it is a fool's errand to try to prove that an American president effected domestic policy in other countries.

[Bambino22]

I'm not crazy. I'm just saying that it is a fool's errand to try to prove that an American president effected domestic policy in other countries.

Well in fairness, Reagan certainly did do that to some countries when he carried out a great deal of his state backed terrorism.

[jlw1980]

Well, if you'd actually read what I post instead of seeing the words "Reagan" and "credit" and losing your mind, you'd see I said he receives "a lot of the credit," not that he receives all of it, nor that he deserves all of it. Only that he does, for better or worse. And, as you have so nicely demonstrated for us, it makes you go crazy.

Just let it go, Nic. It's not worth it.

I was hoping people might post their remembrances of where they were and what other memories they might have from that time. This thread has become exactly what I didn't want it to be.

[TheYankee]

Just let it go, Nic. It's not worth it.

I was hoping people might post their remembrances of where they were and what other memories they might have from that time. This thread has become exactly what I didn't want it to be.

Z0mg. How dare you post something that casts the far left in a negative light, Jenn?! YEARGGGGH!

[Mark19]

All the nonsense about the greater ideological impact of the US model, USSR model...etc aside, if nothing else, it is the anniversary of a moment of great joy and celebration for a country that was harshly divided for a generation.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

Border walls between two white countries? Crazy.

[jlw1980]

All the nonsense about the greater ideological impact of the US model, USSR model...etc aside, if nothing else, it is the anniversary of a moment of great joy and celebration for a country that was harshly divided for a generation.

Indeed. Thank you, Mark.

"The wall that had imprisoned half a city, half a country, half a continent, half a world for nearly a third of a century was swept away by the greatest force of all — the unbreakable spirit of men and women who dared to dream in the darkness, who knew that while force has the temporary power to dictate, it can never ultimately decide." — British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

"The wall was an edifice of fear. On Nov. 9, 20 years ago, it became a place of joy. For 28 years, East Germans could not even approach it. On Nov. 9, 1989, people danced on it — and the world looked different afterward" — German President Horst Koehler.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...AR6pAD9BS72D00

[JDPNYY]

All in all you're just another brick in the...