The Official Pudge Rodriguez Performance Thread

[Young Steinbrenner]

I liked the trade when we made it....

He hasn't hit much, and the pitchers aren't used to him yet. But Pudge can still play. I dont think he's washed up by any means.

[ThePinStripes]

We may have been able to replace Moeller as backup, but I can't imagine the price for any catcher being much less than an inconsistent, overpaid reliever. That's ignoring the fact that we absolutely needed a starter because Molina was about to break down. You are probably right that Detroit didn't think much of Pudge and was happy to be rid of him. But you can bet that they also knew that Farnsworth wasn't any great shakes either. Detroit may have been able to fill a need (relief pitching) for nothing, but we also managed to fill one of our needs (starting catching) for nothing as well.


Our bullpen may be inexperienced, but at the time of the trade, everyone was raving about how good our bullpen was and how it was only going to get better when Bruney came back. We had plenty of excellent relievers, and when you can sacrifice a little bit of a strength to fill a pressing need, you do it. No one could have predicted that Veras and Ramirez would fall off like they have, and Farnsworth seemed expendable with the imminent return of Bruney (who HAS been better than Farnsworth since his return) and the acquisition of Marte (who was supposed to provide experience).

It isn't Pudge's fault that our entire bullpen, including Mo, has underperformed since the trade, making Farnsworth seem more important in many people's eyes than he really was, but if he were producing anything close to what he was doing in Detroit, I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

Exactly. The fact of the matter was that Farnsworth wasn't going to keep that kind of performance, we didn't need him in the pen now or in the future (we had Giese, Robertson, Marte, etc as new additions) and we simply NEEDED another catcher. It was a GREAT move. Low price, low risk, high reward. You can't harp on someone for rolling the dice when the odds are stacked high in his favor.

If I came up to you and offered you 10:1 payout on a coin toss, you'd be a damn idiot not to take it. If you lost, anyone who criticized you for taking the bet would be an idiot.

[ajra21]

Nah. You're entitled to your opinion as I am. Plus, my impression of you when I first joined was wrong. I apologize. You seem like a decent nice guy who knows his baseball. Somehow (hopefully), I think that you've learned that I'm neither a Sox fan (the highest insult!) or Sox troll.

I enjoy your respectful posts, even though we differ in many areas. You'd be surprised that in many areas we are indeed in agreement and also, some of your responses (as well as others), makes me think harder at some of my stances. Not to say I'm going to do a 180, but some truth lies in most of our opinions.

i know ... i rock!

[False1]

Exactly. The fact of the matter was that Farnsworth wasn't going to keep that kind of performance, we didn't need him in the pen now or in the future (we had Giese, Robertson, Marte, etc as new additions) and we simply NEEDED another catcher. It was a GREAT move. Low price, low risk, high reward. You can't harp on someone for rolling the dice when the odds are stacked high in his favor.

Not to mention all the young arms in MiLB that would be getting a look in September or could be called up to fill a need.

[Yero]

Kyle has always been inconsistent. Good one day, awful the next. Now I know it's not possible for pitchers to come out and pitch phenomenal every time, but as far as I'm concerned I had seen enough.

Acceptable trade. Sure, Pudge could and should be hitting better, but good trade none the less. I've always liked the guy and let's face it, hitting or not, there wasn't much to lose anyways.

[Godzilllllla]

sorry guys, it's not like i don't understand what most of your reasoning is about the Pudge trade. all anyone is doing is beating a dead horse by now. but it's hard to argue with facts. the trade has backfired, and if you guys want to chalk that up to bad luck fine, i disagreed with the decision and my reasoning for not liking the trade has pretty much happened almost to a point. i don't see it as a coincidence. think what you want, it's over with and happened, no use in talking about it any more really

[themgmt]

Farnsworth is no good. The trade didn't backfire. Couldn't be happier he's gone.

[Godzilllllla]

Farnsworth is no good. The trade didn't backfire. Couldn't be happier he's gone.

the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE. he was supposed to start most of the games, hit for a high average and drive in some runs. that was his job coming on board. i'm pretty sure a .222 average with a grand total of two RBIs and one double is not getting the job done. say what you want about the bullpen, the bottom line is that it's inexperienced and we were counting heavily on 2 guys that are basically rookies (veras and edwar). Robertson, another rookie, was maybe not a key part but he pitched in some semi-big situations for us this year. all i've ever been saying is that the trade just was not necessary to do. Pudge wasn't enough of an upgrade to even bother trading Farnsworth. part of the problem is some of you hate the guy so much that if we had traded him for Tony Pena Jr people would be raving.

anyhow, sure Farnsworth has sucked with Detroit but who cares? Pudge was brought on board and he's failed miserably. even if you liked the decision you are not even approaching this rationally if you think the trade hasn't backfired at least to some degree.

[themgmt]

I didn't say Pudge has been good. Farnsworth is inconsistent. He is replaceable, and has been replaced by Bruney. Pudge has replaced Moeller. No loss there even if he doesn't hit. But if Pudge does hit like he's supposed to.. it's a plus. I would agree if I thought the Yankees lost anything of value. But they didn't.

[ArodEra]

the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE. he was supposed to start most of the games, hit for a high average and drive in some runs. that was his job coming on board. i'm pretty sure a .222 average with a grand total of two RBIs and one double is not getting the job done. say what you want about the bullpen, the bottom line is that it's inexperienced and we were counting heavily on 2 guys that are basically rookies (veras and edwar). Robertson, another rookie, was maybe not a key part but he pitched in some semi-big situations for us this year. all i've ever been saying is that the trade just was not necessary to do. Pudge wasn't enough of an upgrade to even bother trading Farnsworth. part of the problem is some of you hate the guy so much that if we had traded him for Tony Pena Jr people would be raving.

anyhow, sure Farnsworth has sucked with Detroit but who cares? Pudge was brought on board and he's failed miserably. even if you liked the decision you are not even approaching this rationally if you think the trade hasn't backfired at least to some degree.

Couldn't agree more. Do you know what's ironic? If the Yanks were in 2nd place today with a 3 game lead in the WC race, some fans would attribute that success to this trade. But, for some reason, we can't attribute much of the team's decline to it. Is it a coincidence that the bullpen took a dive after this trade was made? That's not to say that Farns was lights out and the sole reason for the pen's success, but he did pitch well in his role and everyone else seemed to have their own role set in place. Since the trade, nobody has been able to pick up the ball and run with it with any consistency and become the bridge to Mo. To make matters worse, Marte, who Cashman thought would help fill that role, has failed.

Then to add insult to injury, Pudge hasn't been able to hit his way out of a paper bag. Pick a catcher....any catcher, and he couldn't have done much worse than Pudge has.

[yanksphan]

the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE.

You can keep saying this, and believing it if you want - but you're still wrong.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

"He's still an everyday guy and he's a significant upgrade, in all due respect, to everything we've got," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said.

He was brought in to spell Molina. Plain and simple. Molina has never played an entire season as a starter, and at 33 years old, now is not the time to begin doing that.

[ajra21]

You can keep saying this, and believing it if you want - but you're still wrong.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

He was brought in to spell Molina. Plain and simple. Molina has never played an entire season as a starter, and at 33 years old, now is not the time to begin doing that.

i think, had pudge kept up his hitting like he was in detroit, we might have seen slighty different playing time. that said, andy and moose want molina to catch them but still pudge is playing more.

[yanksphan]

why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awful

So much for that...

Pudge - Type A
Farnsworth - not even a Type B

If all we get out of this trade is draft picks, it was a steal.

[Casius]

The great thing about the two trades made this year was that they weren't all-in. Ivan didn't work out the way we hoped with him with the team collapsing soon after he arrived (not his fault really, Joba got hurt and the pitching went under), but Farnsworth had nothing left to give to the Yankees. We essentially got two draft picks for nothing (assuming he declines arbitration and somebody signs him, and I think that's a fair assumption to make).

[2JAY]

The only upgrade that I saw from Irod while he was with the Yankees was the opposing teams ability to steal 2nd. For a guy who believed that he was still a strating ML catcher, Irod during his Yankee tour was anything but.