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  1. #76

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneTravis
    Very fair

    The Mariners are not going to want Duncan ever. And why would they want Matsui? To add payroll? He certainly is not going to make a difference in the standings for them. They are horrible.

    Young high ceiling talent is the only way you pry Berdard. But who is in charge over there now? Do any deals get done with the M's this year due to Bavasi leaving?
    Young high ceiling talent is the answer, but at this point it's very debatable whether Kennedy, Tabata, and Horne will be considered high ceiling talent outside the Yankees organization. You'd have to hope that the Mariners were high on McAllister, Garcia, or Betances. Of course for all the credit our minor league pitching guru has gotten, a lot of our pitching prospects have ended up with injury problems (to be fair, some were drafted that way).

  2. #77

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by themgmt
    I do think they would want Shelley Duncan. No way he doesn't out perform Richie Sexson if he plays full time. And Sexson's contract is expiring this year, they could get a cost controlled replacement


    Horne or McCutchen - need someone to step into rotation
    Marquez or Kei Igawa - Need someone to step into rotation
    Scott Strickland - Extra Bullpen arm
    Shelley Duncan, they need first base/RF production
    OF Prospect - Justin Christian/Matt Carson or worst case Gardner. Need a RF


    I bet that gets it done.
    Only if the new GM was trying to suffer the same fate as Bavasi, but quicker.

    Horne and Marquez are the only things that could be considered of value, and they'd likely be the 3rd player in a deal like this, not the first or 2nd.

  3. #78

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    The main reason they give up Matsui is so they can hold on to Cano, Hughes, Jackson,etc.

    I wasn't suggesting Sexson could replace Matsui's production - it would somewhat offset Hideki's loss though, and balance a lefty-heavy lineup. Also, he might be more productive in the Yankee lineup than hitting cleanup for the Mariners.

    Please look at the bigger picture.
    Shelley Duncan would put up better numbers than Sexson, any RH hitter that can hit .220 would balance the lineup better. Sexson is in a sever decline and strikes out enough for 2 players. If you look at the players Baltimore gave up and their production, they did not give up that much in regards to proven talent. They made up for talent with quantity.

  4. #79
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    The Mariners don't have to trade Bedard this season, so don't expect them to unless the price is absolutely right. They can simply wait until the offseason when every team in the league can dream about contending in 2009 (like they did in 2008).

  5. #80

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23
    Only if the new GM was trying to suffer the same fate as Bavasi, but quicker.

    Horne and Marquez are the only things that could be considered of value, and they'd likely be the 3rd player in a deal like this, not the first or 2nd.
    They are trying to get rid of Bedard, who's contract expires next year. They gave up 1 of their better prospects who is not performing, 1 reliever, and 3 mediocre pitching prospects. Horne has to be tempting, a 24 year old power arm, who had a great season last year.

    Horne and Marquez + 1 or 2 mediocre pitching/relieving prospects and a short term infielder/outfielder gets it done. Maybe have to package another high ceiling arm with it like Brackman or Bettances if another team will be desperate for Bedard at the trade deadline. If they don't trade him at the deadline this year, the price will probably go up after Bedard has another good season.

  6. #81
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23
    I'm confused as to why Seattle would trade for Hideki Matsui in a deal involving Bedard, when Matsui's contract is up after the '09 season like Bedard's is. Matsui has value to teams that are going to compete in the next two years. Not a team that is going to have to rebuild.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneTravis
    The Mariners are not going to want Duncan ever. And why would they want Matsui? To add payroll? He certainly is not going to make a difference in the standings for them. They are horrible.
    I wouldn't classify this team as "rebuilding". They were expecting to contend for their division, and may only be a player or two away from improving the weakest part of their club -- their offense. Matsui is an All-Star run producer and gives them a much-needed lefthanded bat with some pop, replacing a right-handed hitter who will be gone after this season. His ethnicity and popularity with Asians, coupled with Ichiro and the Mariners' catcher Johjima give the team a powerful marketing tool both in Seattle and internationally. I doubt money is even an issue for this club. Their payroll tops $115M and their owners are among the richest in all of baseball. Duncan, as I stated earlier, is a stop-gap who replaces Sexson at 1st base for the remainder of this season, and then could be a semi-productive bench player for them in 2009 -- just like most of us were expecting him to be for the Yankees this year.

  7. #82
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by themgmt
    They are trying to dump Bedard, who's contract expires next year. They gave up 1 of their better prospects who was not performing, 1 reliever, and 3 mediocre pitching prospects.

    Horne and Marquez + 1 or 2 mediocre pitching/relieving prospects and an infielder/outfielder gets it done.
    Sorry man but you're dreaming. They gave up their crown jewel prospect for Bedard...they are not going to trade him now for 50 cents on the dollar.

  8. #83

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84
    The Mariners don't have to trade Bedard this season, so don't expect them to unless the price is absolutely right. They can simply wait until the offseason when every team in the league can dream about contending in 2009 (like they did in 2008).
    Exactly. They aren't making a trade to fill slots this year, they're only making a trade if they get an offer from a contending team where they say,"Wow, yeah, we HAVE to do this".

    Since he's cost controlled for the next 1.5 years, and will be a Type A FA, a team is certainly going to offer them more than "quantity". The Orioles had to trade their best prospect who was major league ready and a closer with a career ERA+ of 121 in addition to 3 other prospects.

  9. #84

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dynasty
    If you have to take Sexson in order to obtain a talent like Bedard, heck, you've gotta do it.
    It's not a bad idea to take on Sexson in order to keep the price, talent-wise, reasonable. It's much like what the Sox did with Beckett, taking on Lowell (of course since everything they touch turns to gold, Lowell became a big-time contributer for them).
    "We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction. Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston."

  10. #85

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    I wouldn't classify this team as "rebuilding". They were expecting to contend for their division, and may only be a player or two away from improving the weakest part of their club -- their offense. Matsui is an All-Star run producer and gives them a much-needed lefthanded bat with some pop, replacing a right-handed hitter who will be gone after this season. His ethnicity and popularity with Asians, coupled with Ichiro and the Mariners' catcher Johjima give the team a powerful marketing tool both in Seattle and internationally. I doubt money is even an issue for this club. Their payroll tops $115M and their owners are among the richest in all of baseball. Duncan, as I stated earlier, is a stop-gap who replaces Sexson at 1st base for the remainder of this season, and then could be a semi-productive bench player for them in 2009 -- just like most of us were expecting him to be for the Yankees this year.
    They were the only ones expecting them to contend. Everyone else saw that they vastly overplayed their run differential, and weren't nearly as close as they thought. They didn't fire their current GM so they could compete now, they fired him so they could bring a new exec in and start over. If they put Bedard on the market, there's going to be a pretty big bidding war because he can help a contending team for in effect, two seasons.

    Personally, if they best they could do was Horne and Marquez, they'd be better off letting Bedard pitch and taking the draft picks.

  11. #86

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23
    Exactly. They aren't making a trade to fill slots this year, they're only making a trade if they get an offer from a contending team where they say,"Wow, yeah, we HAVE to do this".

    Since he's cost controlled for the next 1.5 years, and will be a Type A FA, a team is certainly going to offer them more than "quantity". The Orioles had to trade their best prospect who was major league ready and a closer with a career ERA+ of 121 in addition to 3 other prospects.
    That's the Orioles though. If Bedard is on the block this fast, after giving up what they did to get him, they will take someone like Horne. They traded away an OF Prospect and 4 pitchers for 1 pitcher. That tells me they want pitching in return for Bedard, not so much position players. Of course with a new GM their philosophy might have obviously changed. Give them a ton of arms, but nothing too crazy. If they don't accept, which is possible, don't give up the farm for 1.5 years of a pitcher.

    I could see the Cubs giving up everything to get him though

  12. #87
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by themgmt
    Shelley Duncan would put up better numbers than Sexson, any RH hitter that can hit .220 would balance the lineup better. Sexson is in a sever decline and strikes out enough for 2 players.
    I respectfully say that you are being narrow-minded. Sexson is better, defensively, than Giambi or Duncan, and would only be with the club for the remainder of this season. He poses a threat against left-handed starters and relievers, something the Yanks don't have outside of A-Rod and/or Posada, and something Duncan failed to do this season.

    But the main reason to include him in the deal is to 1)obtain Bedard without giving up Cano.Hughes,Jackson,Horne,etc. 2)have Giambi replace Matsui as DH and still fill the hole at 1st base, and 3)allow the Mariners to shed some salary in order to take on Matsui's.

    Once again, I ask you to look at the bigger picture.

  13. #88
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    I wouldn't classify this team as "rebuilding". They were expecting to contend for their division, and may only be a player or two away from improving the weakest part of their club -- their offense. Matsui is an All-Star run producer and gives them a much-needed lefthanded bat with some pop, replacing a right-handed hitter who will be gone after this season. His ethnicity and popularity with Asians, coupled with Ichiro and the Mariners' catcher Johjima give the team a powerful marketing tool both in Seattle and internationally. I doubt money is even an issue for this club. Their payroll tops $115M and their owners are among the richest in all of baseball. Duncan, as I stated earlier, is a stop-gap who replaces Sexson at 1st base for the remainder of this season, and then could be a semi-productive bench player for them in 2009 -- just like most of us were expecting him to be for the Yankees this year.
    The Mariners are dead last in the AL in every offensive category except BA they are 13th.

    Their pitching is in the same boat. They are 20 games under .500

    Matsui and Duncan don't change that. Also they don't need a stop gap at first. They will plug in Clement.

    They will want pitching and plenty of it.
    "Well guess what? He's dead. You just signed a dead guy." --pleasepassthesoup

  14. #89

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    Here we go. A blockbuster deal that will help both clubs both now and in the future:

    Yankees get Erik Bedard and Richie Sexson, contingent on being able to negotiate a new contract with Bedard.

    Mariners get Hideki Matsui, Ian Kennedy, Shelley Duncan, and Jeff Marquez.
    Can't see the Yanks trading Matsui or the M's really wanting him. The M's have already given up on this year and next year is a longshot. Matsui is only signed through next year. By trading Bedard they're looking to rebuild and probably want some young offensive players (shelly duncan probably not what they're looking for). I think they'll be targeting at least one of Tabata, Jackson, or Montero in any deal with us.

    Adding Sexson to the deal might be a nice Bonus for the M's since I'm sure they'd love to get rid of as much of his salary as the can right now. He might also be a decent right handed power bat off our bench.

  15. #90

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by themgmt
    That's the Orioles though. If Bedard is on the block this fast, after giving up what they did to get him, they will take someone like Horne. They traded away an OF Prospect and 4 pitchers for 1 pitcher. That tells me they want pitching in return for Bedard, not so much position players. Of course with a new GM their philosophy might have obviously changed. Give them a ton of arms, but nothing too crazy. If they don't accept, which is possible, don't give up the farm for 1.5 years of a pitcher.

    I could see the Cubs giving up everything to get him though
    If he's on the block that fast, it means that he has the most value right now, and they're accepting that they have no chance to contend in '08 or '09.

    1.5 years of a pitcher is extremely valuable. Especially a 29 year old pitcher who had success in the AL East.

  16. #91
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneTravis
    The Mariners are dead last in the AL in every offensive category except BA they are 13th.

    Their pitching is in the same boat. They are 20 games under .500

    Matsui and Duncan don't change that. Also they don't need a stop gap at first. They will plug in Clement.

    They will want pitching and plenty of it.
    Did you forget the deal would include Ian Kennedy and Jeff Marquez (or someone similar, like Karstens, Rasner, or Igawa)? Heck, I'd be willing to part with Kennedy and two of those four. This is the same Kennedy that most of us considered to be semi-untouchable a couple of months ago.

  17. #92

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    I respectfully say that you are being narrow-minded. Sexson is better, defensively, than Giambi or Duncan, and would only be with the club for the remainder of this season. He poses a threat against left-handed starters and relievers, something the Yanks don't have outside of A-Rod and/or Posada, and something Duncan failed to do this season.

    But the main reason to include him in the deal is to 1)obtain Bedard without giving up Cano.Hughes,Jackson,Horne,etc. 2)have Giambi replace Matsui as DH and still fill the hole at 1st base, and 3)allow the Mariners to shed some salary in order to take on Matsui's.

    Once again, I ask you to look at the bigger picture.
    I'm not being narrow-minded. Sexson is useless. He does nothing offensively. I could find an all glove guy for league minimum that still has higher OBP than Sexson. Why would I pay 15 million?

    Shed Salary to take on Matsui's? Sexson Makes $15 M this year and is done, Matsui Makes 13M this year, and 13 M next year. By the time a trade was made, the Mariners would save maybe 1M this year, but pay another 13M next year. I would take on Sexson's salary if it meant getting Bedard, no question. I would also eat his salary and either DFA him immediately or trade him for anything. I would make no misconceptions that Sexson would contribute anything to the Yankees.

  18. #93
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    Did you forget the deal would include Ian Kennedy and Jeff Marquez (or someone similar, like Karstens, Rasner, or Igawa)? Heck, I'd be willing to part with Kennedy and two of those four. This is the same Kennedy that most of us considered to be semi-untouchable a couple of months ago.
    Karstens? Igawa? No way are they going in a deal.

    Kennedy,Marquez is a good start.

    Washburn,Silva,Bautista have a combined age of 33 and an Era of around 6.00

    The M's are going to want young cheap pitchers. I don't see them wanting a AAAA player in Duncan which is what he is showing right now.
    "Well guess what? He's dead. You just signed a dead guy." --pleasepassthesoup

  19. #94

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    Did you forget the deal would include Ian Kennedy and Jeff Marquez (or someone similar, like Karstens, Rasner, or Igawa)? Heck, I'd be willing to part with Kennedy and two of those four. This is the same Kennedy that most of us considered to be semi-untouchable a couple of months ago.
    Kennedy was always touchable in my mind. Marquez is a back of the rotation guy. Karstens and Igawa are junk.

  20. #95

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23
    The main reason I zeroed in on Sexson is because 1)he's a right-handed power threat, which balances the lineup somewhat, 2)he's better defensively than Giambi and allows Jason to DH fulltime, 3)losing Matsui is somewhat offset by his place in the lineup, 4)it frees a spot in the outfield for Brett Gardner, who can come off the bench and pinch-run, as well as give the starting outfielders a rest every now and then, 5)he's a free-agent at the end of the year who doesn't fit into the Mariners' (or the Yankees) future plans, 6) the Yanks can afford to take on his salary for the rest of the year and frees up some money for the Mariners to take on Matsui's contract, 7) the Mariners' lineup would be more balanced with Matsui's left-handed bat in place of Sexson's.

    It's not like I really like the guy, but he should be available, and could fit in nicely for the last 80 games or so. If we lose Matsui (in order to obtain Bedard and keep our prospects and Cano), I'd rather Sexson and Gardner be on the roster than Shelley Duncan. A bench consisting of Molina, Gardner, Gonzalez, Betemit could be enough, considering how little the Yanks really depend on their bench.
    No trust me you really don't want Sexson. Sure he's okay defensively but he is dreadful (I mean really dreadful) at the plate.

    The only reason why he could be included in the deal is that the Mariners would love to be able to get rid of him and not have to pay the rest of his salary, which is the only reason he is still on the team in my opinion.

  21. #96
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23
    Kennedy was always touchable in my mind. Marquez is a back of the rotation guy. Karstens and Igawa are junk.
    You're nasty

  22. #97

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneTravis
    The M's are going to want young cheap pitchers. I don't see them wanting a AAAA player in Duncan which is what he is showing right now.
    You don't think they would take Shelley Duncan to get rid of Richie Sexson? 15M vs $400,000 for the next couple years while they are rebuilding. He can take over at 1st until they find their future first baseman, and play in RF in a pinch. And they don't have to pay him anything, even if it was just for this year.

    Mariners would do that trade in a heartbeat.

  23. #98

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23
    I'm confused as to why Seattle would trade for Hideki Matsui in a deal involving Bedard, when Matsui's contract is up after the '09 season like Bedard's is. Matsui has value to teams that are going to compete in the next two years. Not a team that is going to have to rebuild.
    Well the team has Japanese ownership and if you've gone to a Mariners game one would notice the huge amount of Japanese tourists there. So having Johjima, Matsui and Ichiro at the same time would be great for marketing.

    I think Seattle really wants to give up Bedard. He has been dreadful with the media and his teammates and is now refusing to throw more than 100 pitches in a game. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm willing to bet we could get Bedard for less than many expect.

  24. #99

    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84
    You're nasty
    Haha. Damn you.

  25. #100
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    Re: Berdard on the block??

    Quote Originally Posted by themgmt
    You don't think they would take Shelley Duncan to get rid of Richie Sexson? 15M vs $400,000 for the next couple years while they are rebuilding. He can take over at 1st until they find their future first baseman, and play in RF in a pinch. And they don't have to pay him anything, even if it was just for this year.

    Mariners would do that trade in a heartbeat.
    Ok I am not sure what you are proposing.

    You want the Yankees to take on Sexson's contract and send them Duncan. We are also sending them who?
    "Well guess what? He's dead. You just signed a dead guy." --pleasepassthesoup

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