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  1. #1476
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    If all it took to go from "not a professional baseball player" to "one of the very best hitters in the league" was PEDs, they'd be a hell of a lot more rampant. If I started juicing, could I turn myself into a major leaguer?

    No one is saying that hard work turned him into a great player all by itself, but the fact is that he did start working out more and his coaches were lauding his improved effort and training. I just don't think that there is a drug that, all by itself, can account for the improvement in Melky's performance. If there were, guys like Ozzie Canseco probably would have been a lot better.
    I can say all the same things about motivation that you say about PEDs.

    I'm perfectly willing to believe that neither one alone would have been sufficient. We'll see how far motivation alone will take him.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  2. #1477

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm not your pal and don't be condescending, please.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
    -- Neil deGrasse Tyson

  3. #1478
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    If all it took to go from "not a professional baseball player" to "one of the very best hitters in the league" was PEDs, they'd be a hell of a lot more rampant. If I started juicing, could I turn myself into a major leaguer?

    No one is saying that hard work turned him into a great player all by itself, but the fact is that he did start working out more and his coaches were lauding his improved effort and training. I just don't think that there is a drug that, all by itself, can account for the improvement in Melky's performance. If there were, guys like Ozzie Canseco probably would have been a lot better.
    Why the hyperbole? Never said that John Doe could ingest PEDs and put up MVP-like numbers.

    But yeah, I don't think it's a stretch to think that a pretty terrible ballplayer that became an MVP-candidate at the drop of a hat was probably more influenced by his PED usage than by the Richard Simmons inspirational videos he started watching.

  4. #1479

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I can say all the same things about motivation that you say about PEDs.

    I'm perfectly willing to believe that neither one alone would have been sufficient. We'll see how far motivation alone will take him.
    steroid muscle is still there for a few years at least. he's a young guy

    also, the steroid scandal thing is very dramatic and we do not know its effects on him.

    nevertheless, the idea that steroids is magical is mistaken. most studies peg the effect at around 50 to 100 points of ops.
    always reasonable

  5. #1480

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I can say all the same things about motivation that you say about PEDs.

    I'm perfectly willing to believe that neither one alone would have been sufficient. We'll see how far motivation alone will take him.
    I don't think you understand. I agree with you that his increased motivation and improved effort/training aren't the only factors that led to his drastic improvement. I do, however, think that they were significant contributors, because I don't believe that PEDs can do that alone. I'm certain that the PEDs helped (as did good luck on balls in play), but the uptick in performance is too much for it to have been PEDs alone.

  6. #1481
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    I don't think you understand. I agree with you that his increased motivation and improved effort/training aren't the only factors that led to his drastic improvement. I do, however, think that they were significant contributors, because I don't believe that PEDs can do that alone. I'm certain that the PEDs helped (as did good luck on balls in play), but the uptick in performance is too much for it to have been PEDs alone.
    I don't think you understand what I posted.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #1482

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    there's not much to understand. roids = magic
    always reasonable

  8. #1483
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    there's not much to understand. roids = magic
    Yes, because that's just what I said.

    Oh, and do you have a link to these "studies" you cite?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  9. #1484

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I don't think you understand what I posted.
    I don't think you understand that I posted that you don't understand what I posted. Parse that!

  10. #1485
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    I don't think you understand that I posted that you don't understand what I posted. Parse that!
    I got it the first time through.

    Actually, your previous post said almost exactly the same thing that I did.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #1486

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I got it the first time through.

    Actually, your previous post said almost exactly the same thing that I did.
    That's what I was trying to say!

  12. #1487

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/rjm...20baseball.pdf

    pretty crude historical offensive level analysis. there's a cohort study with 7 samples too but lol 7 newsworthy ml players clear sample bias.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=3881
    nate silver with a cursory examination based on hr rate, which could possibly understate roid impact.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=4845
    a look at sudden jumps in power from players. again, not fully accounting for roid's impact perhaps but an issue nonetheless

    the data is just not decisive unless you point at bonds or something. in bonds' case his overall package of plate control, ability to not miss any pitch, and plate crowding 'technique' magnified the effect of roids itself.
    always reasonable

  13. #1488
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    That's what I was trying to say!
    Then just say it, damn it!
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  14. #1489

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    you ar ethe one who thinks he will be a scrub again without roids. it's not magical dust

    he may refuse to work again after the roids thing and become self destructive in a way, but that's not because he's without roids. it's because he's had a mental breakdown
    always reasonable

  15. #1490
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    you ar ethe one who thinks he will be a scrub again without roids. it's not magical dust

    he may refuse to work again after the roids thing and become self destructive in a way, but that's not because he's without roids. it's because he's had a mental breakdown
    What I said was that he was a scrub - or less - before he took roids, and that there's no evidence he's any good without them, and I wouldn't want the Yankees to be the ones to pay to find out.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #1491

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    that implies that steroids was the only thing at work. it's not.

    melky may not be mvp level but he'd be a young dude, very cheap, with steroid enhanced physical ability. the only questionmark is whether the scandal has destroyed his motivation for all things
    always reasonable

  17. #1492
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    that implies that steroids was the only thing at work. it's not.

    melky may not be mvp level but he'd be a young, very cheap, with steroid enhanced physical ability. the only questionmark is whether the scandal has destroyed his motivation for all things
    No, that's not what it implies. What it implies is that, without the steroids, the other factors might not have been enough to elevate his game - or keep it there.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  18. #1493

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    no. you made no mention of other factors thus implied roids was the only factor. only after critical responses did you address other factors and that argument is not supported by anything other than 'roids is magic' sentiment with respect to its main point, that roids is the main causal contribution to his gain in performance.
    always reasonable

  19. #1494
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    no. you made no mention of other factors thus implied roids was the only factor. only after critical responses did you address other factors and that argument is not supported by anything other than 'roids is magic' sentiment with respect to its main point, that roids is the main causal contribution to his gain in performance.
    Nonsense.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  20. #1495

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Nonsense.

  21. #1496

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    joe biden is captain america
    always reasonable

  22. #1497
    NYYF Legend

    Eldee5's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    I don't think you understand that I posted that you don't understand what I posted. Parse that!
    This clip, from 1:10
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvaD-29pQBY

  23. #1498
    NYYF Legend

    Eldee5's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...fier-1.4198269
    Johnny Damon has found a new team, though it's not one that many people would expect.
    The former Yankee will play for Thailand in their World Baseball Classic qualifiers, Major League Baseball confirmed today.
    Damon, whose mother is Thai, will play in the team's first game on November 15 against the Philippines. The winner of the qualifier, which also includes Chinese Taipei and New Zealand and lasts through Nov. 18, advances to the World Baseball Classic in March.

  24. #1499
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Jeez - I hope none of the current Yankees decide to play in that tournament.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  25. #1500

    Re: The Former Yankee Performance Thread v4.0

    Marlins have hired Tino as their hitting coach.http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/11/0...tino-martinez/

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