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  1. #1
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    Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    The owners were bound to lose one......boy did they ever

    CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Ryan Howard won his salary arbitration case against the Philadelphia Phillies on Thursday when he was award $10 million, the highest figure awarded a victorious player.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3256452

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  2. #2
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Holy sh*t, this is really, really, really big news. Wow.

    Wow.

    THis completely changes the arbitration landscape in my opinion.
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  3. #3

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    How so?

    The man deserved what he got. It's not going to change the way the system works. If a player deserves the cash, he gets it, if he does not, he don't get it.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    I thought he was going to win, I think if the Phillies offered $8.5 million or so it might have changed it, but with the numbers he's put up, the Phillies would have been wise (assuming they didn't) to try to negotiate.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Game4Tino
    How so?

    The man deserved what he got. It's not going to change the way the system works. If a player deserves the cash, he gets it, if he does not, he don't get it.
    For a player to get $10M, no matter how good he is, in his first year of arbitration, changes a lot. It pretty much makes players a lot more expensive.

    For comparisons sake, Miguel Cabrera, who was a much better player at the same time, got something like $7.4M just a couple years ago.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  6. #6
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    For a player to get $10M, no matter how good he is, in his first year of arbitration, changes a lot. It pretty much makes players a lot more expensive.

    For comparisons sake, Miguel Cabrera, who was a much better player at the same time, got something like $7.4M just a couple years ago.

    Yep. $10 million in a player's FIRST arb year is a huge win for those that are under the indentured servitude plan.

    Cano and the rest of the position players who signed guaranteed deals look to have possibly given their teams a HUGE break after this decision.
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  7. #7

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Game4Tino
    How so?

    The man deserved what he got. It's not going to change the way the system works. If a player deserves the cash, he gets it, if he does not, he don't get it.
    This is his first year of arbitration. For reference, Wang getting 4 in his first year is an obscene amount.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    For a player to get $10M, no matter how good he is, in his first year of arbitration, changes a lot. It pretty much makes players a lot more expensive.

    For comparisons sake, Miguel Cabrera, who was a much better player at the same time, got something like $7.4M just a couple years ago.
    The Phillies offered $7M and Howard asked for $10M. Philly took too large a chance going into arbitration with that large a gap between the two numbers, because the arbitrator doesn't have any discretion. If he determines Howard's value to be closer to $10M than it is to $7M (which he obviously did), he has to award the higher number.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by YASS
    The Phillies offered $7M and Howard asked for $10M. Philly took too large a chance going into arbitration with that large a gap between the two numbers, because the arbitrator doesn't have any discretion. If he determines Howard's value to be closer to $10M than it is to $7M (which he obviously did), he has to award the higher number.

    Given historical precedent, I thought the $10 million was the out-of-whack figure.
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  10. #10

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    For comparisons sake, Miguel Cabrera, who was a much better player at the same time, got something like $7.4M just a couple years ago.
    Just last year.

  11. #11
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by YASS
    The Phillies offered $7M and Howard asked for $10M. Philly took too large a chance going into arbitration with that large a gap between the two numbers, because the arbitrator doesn't have any discretion. If he determines Howard's value to be closer to $10M than it is to $7M (which he obviously did), he has to award the higher number.
    In the first year of arbitration, I thought $7M was more than fair. Like I said, last year Miguel Cabrera, in his first year of arbitration, got $7.4M. Miguel Cabrera is the better player.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  12. #12
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk
    Just last year.
    Yep, I just looked that up. Makes sense given that he has 2 more years left before he's a FA.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  13. #13
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch
    Given historical precedent, I thought the $10 million was the out-of-whack figure.
    I agree, but arbitration is a crap shoot. Much safer to bend enough in salary negotiations to avoid it.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by YASS
    I agree, but arbitration is a crap shoot. Much safer to bend enough in salary negotiations to avoid it.

    I agree to an extent, given that the arbitrators are usually extremely stupid, but we've almost always seen the decisions favor the clubs, and even more importantly, the decisions scoff at the seemingly ridiculously high player's proposals.
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  15. #15

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    I understand the first timer point, but this is Ryan Howard. I think we can all agree that $10 million is more in line with what he is worth regardless of his years of service, no?

    I don't really think his case will impact future cases, unless those players are on the level that Ryan is and there are not too many guys around the entire league on that level let alone players of that caliber that have not signed an extension.

    The Phillies have been screwing with Howard for years, going back to keeping him in AAA so that they could prolong the "controlled cost" portion of his ML career. Plain and simple, they deserved to lose this case.

  16. #16
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    In the first year of arbitration, I thought $7M was more than fair. Like I said, last year Miguel Cabrera, in his first year of arbitration, got $7.4M. Miguel Cabrera is the better player.
    I don't agree that Miguel Cabrera is necessarily the better player. Howard has a higher lifetime OPS+ than Cabrera, and isn't as inept at his (admittedly less valuable) position as Cabrera is. I think you'd have to call them pretty close in value.

    I don't think the $10M award was justified, but I don't think it was a slam dunk, either, and Philly shouldn't have taken so big a chance with it.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Game4Tino
    I understand the first timer point, but this is Ryan Howard. I think we can all agree that $10 million is more in line with what he is worth regardless of his years of service, no?
    Right, but this has nothing to do with arbitration. Arbitration isn't based on what he's worth as a FA, it's based on other historical cases of arb-eligible players in their first year.

    This will have an enormous impact on all future first year eligible cases.
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  18. #18

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    I see your point.

    Chalk it up to a "cost of living" increase. I wish all American industries would go back to awarding those. Salaries for the working class in this country haven't been adjusted properly in years if you ask me.

  19. #19
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    I agree $10 million is a bit high, but one contributing factor to it was also the Phillies offer. I said above $8.5 million, but I also wonder if they offered $8 million if that would have changed things.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by GoRocket
    I agree $10 million is a bit high, but one contributing factor to it was also the Phillies offer. I said above $8.5 million, but I also wonder if they offered $8 million if that would have changed things.
    I agree. If the arbitrator saw Howard and Cabrera as close in value, then the $7.4M precedent plays a big role. Figure in some salary inflation factor, and you're at $8M. If the arbitrator believes Ryan to be more valuable than Cabrera, that number just goes up.
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  21. #21

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Arbitrators dig the long ball.

  22. #22

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan Tavarez
    Arbitrators dig the long ball.
    Best. Commercial. Ever.

  23. #23
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by YASS
    I don't agree that Miguel Cabrera is necessarily the better player. Howard has a higher lifetime OPS+ than Cabrera, and isn't as inept at his (admittedly less valuable) position as Cabrera is. I think you'd have to call them pretty close in value.

    I don't think the $10M award was justified, but I don't think it was a slam dunk, either, and Philly shouldn't have taken so big a chance with it.
    They had very similar OPS+'s and Cabrera plays the more valuable position. Both of them play their respective positions badly.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  24. #24
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    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Game4Tino
    I don't really think his case will impact future cases, unless those players are on the level that Ryan is and there are not too many guys around the entire league on that level let alone players of that caliber that have not signed an extension.
    http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...3dolney_buster

    Ryan Zimmerman and the Nats are far apart in talks for a long-term extension, writes Dave Sheinin. Part of the reason why now is because of the Ryan Howard arbitration decision, which has had an enormous impact on the sport and the way executives are thinking about their young players.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  25. #25

    Re: Ryan Howard hits jackpot in arbitration

    This is his first year of arbitration. For reference, Wang getting 4 in his first year is an obscene amount.
    If Wang's agent didn't mention "Michael Jordan" and provided a better argument, he probably could have won...

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