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  1. #1

    What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Just what do the Yankees have with the pitching troika of Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain?

    Well maybe what the Marlins were able to compile in the early part of this decade was somewhat comparable to what the Yankees currently have. Here is

    Baseball America's Top 100 list

    All three Marlin pitchers were on the 2000 list for the Marlins and, Penny reached #5 in 1999 while with the D-backs, Beckett reached as high as #1 while with the Marlins and Burnett reached #21 while with the Marlins - all within a year or two or each other.

    As for the Yankees - Hughes reached #4 in 2007 at 20 years old, Joba will reach the top 5 at 22 years old in 2008, and Kennedy will reach the top 10-20 range at age 23 in 2008. All three are expected to pitch as regular starters in the majors in 2008.

    So just what do the Yankees have with those three?

    Well, with Hughes they have a precocious talent, who at the tender age of 21 (current age, birthday in June), has already pitched in a major league game where he had a no-hitter with one out in the seventh inning; won a playoff game as the youngest pitcher in the history of the Yankee franchise;had a sub 3.00 ERA for his last month and a half of baseball during the 2007 season (including the playoffs); and, compiled an extraordinary success in the minors, nearly unparalleled when one considers what he accomplished at each level at the age that he pitched at those levels.

    With Chamberlain the Yankees drafted a prototypical power pitcher, likely to mimic the success of other power pitchers with good control of their fastballs and secondary stuff. For nearly a year, I have used Verlander as Chamberlain's most perfect fit where actual results on the mound are concerned. Here I am not referring to body type or style of pitching, but rather focused on two obvious power pitchers who produce similar results when unleashed on batters.

    With Kennedy the Yankees have one of the most cerebral pitchers ever in their organization. Like Hughes, Kennedy has a tremendous feel for how to pitch (combined with a sophisticated knowledge of pitching). And, although Kennedy doesn't have Hughes stuff (when Hughes is healthy as he was in the playoffs), Kennedy does have the ability to change speeds, out-think hitters, and hit his target with impeccable command and control. For old-timers among the readers, I would compare Kennedy's style, stuff, and moxie to a, young, right-handed version of Whitey Ford.

    Needless to say, I believe that there is no good empirical evidence that these three young men will not be able to reach their potential, particularly now that all three have found at least some modicum of success in the majors already. Simply put, I believe that Hughes will be at least the equal if not the superior to Josh Beckett when the balance of their careers are considered, while I see Chamberlain as likely to be at least as good as Verlander and Brad Penny when the bulk of their careers are considered.

    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  2. #2
    Lets go Yankees BxBomber44's Avatar
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    a good read as always 2.0, i agree and am hopeful we can get those results.


  3. #3

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    It's stuff like this that gets me all happy and excited for the 2008 season and beyond. Yes, it's always possible that injuries happen or they kids don't pan out for whatever reason, but who wants to think about that.....and if we do, what would be the point anyway? No one can predict those kinds of things...........All I know is that there are good reasons why Yankee fans are so excited about Phil, Joba and Ian; the hype (especially on the first two) has been well-founded and justified by minor-league and major league performances. To boot, all three are well-grounded and mature - they are not Brian Taylors, with all the talent in the world, but no self-control. Phil, Joba and Ian are likeable kids who are easy to root for; what's not to like?



  4. #4

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by BxBomber44
    a good read as always 2.0, i agree and am hopeful we can get those results.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbooster
    It's stuff like this that gets me all happy and excited for the 2008 season and beyond. Yes, it's always possible that injuries happen or they kids don't pan out for whatever reason, but who wants to think about that.....and if we do, what would be the point anyway? No one can predict those kinds of things...........All I know is that there are good reasons why Yankee fans are so excited about Phil, Joba and Ian; the hype (especially on the first two) has been well-founded and justified by minor-league and major league performances. To boot, all three are well-grounded and mature - they are not Brian Taylors, with all the talent in the world, but no self-control. Phil, Joba and Ian are likeable kids who are easy to root for; what's not to like?

    Agreed on all counts. Most importantly from a baseball perspective, those three ought to be considered cornerstones of a new Yankee Dynasty (along with the other fine young offensive performers here and on the horizon and the other pitchers that will eventually make a big impact for the Yankees).
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  5. #5
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hughes2.50
    Kennedy has a tremendous feel for how to pitch (combined with a sophisticated knowledge of pitching). And, although Kennedy doesn't have Hughes stuff (when Hughes is healthy as he was in the playoffs), Kennedy does have the ability to change speeds, out-think hitters, and hit his target with impeccable command and control. For old-timers among the readers, I would compare Kennedy's style, stuff, and moxie to a young Whitey Ford.
    Neither did Glavine, and look how successful he's been with his pinpoint accuracy in pitching (I know Glavine is lefty, but I'm comparing hitting targets)
    If the Yankees add Kennedy as an extra player for Santana trade in an attempt to keep him away from the redsox (Lester scares me anyway), I think they will seriously regret it.
    Cashman's been preaching going the younger route, yet it seems that it's all a bunch of hot air. I realize Santana is a proven veteran, but you can't keep trading and acquiring the so called proven veterans like the Giambi's, Pavano's etc.. year after year without allowing your young GOOD players to develop. Please!
    David

    I know what kind of pitcher Whitey was and kind of person he is. It makes me feel proud to be a Yankee. We're keeping this in the family. (On breaking Whitey's PS consecutive scoreless innings)

  6. #6

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColombiaYanksFan
    Neither did Glavine, and look how successful he's been with his pinpoint accuracy in pitching (I know Glavine is lefty, but I'm comparing hitting targets)
    If the Yankees add Kennedy as an extra player for Santana trade in an attempt to keep him away from the redsox (Lester scares me anyway), I think they will seriously regret it.
    Cashman's been preaching going the younger route, yet it seems that it's all a bunch of hot air. I realize Santana is a proven veteran, but you can't keep trading and acquiring the so called proven veterans like the Giambi's, Pavano's etc.. year after year without allowing your young GOOD players to develop. Please!
    Not to mention, at least to me, its more fun to watch good young players develop than it is to watch them send out some fantasy baseball team every night.

  7. #7

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    I know one thing, the Yankee fans don't need to hear how great these pitchers are going to be, they need to see them as great pitchers and the sooner, the better.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  8. #8

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColombiaYanksFan
    Neither did Glavine, and look how successful he's been with his pinpoint accuracy in pitching (I know Glavine is lefty, but I'm comparing hitting targets)
    If the Yankees add Kennedy as an extra player for Santana trade in an attempt to keep him away from the redsox (Lester scares me anyway), I think they will seriously regret it.
    Cashman's been preaching going the younger route, yet it seems that it's all a bunch of hot air. I realize Santana is a proven veteran, but you can't keep trading and acquiring the so called proven veterans like the Giambi's, Pavano's etc.. year after year without allowing your young GOOD players to develop. Please!
    There is zero evidence that Cashman wants to trade any of those youngsters for any pitcher (including Santana). There are no public accounts which attribute any movement of these kids to a Cashman initiated manuever.

    If ownership is wise, they will let the experts control the course of events. Owners acting like GM's kind of remind me of the investment commercial currently playing on television. It shows a guy with a knife in his hands on the phone with his doctor - the doctor describes what kind of incision the guy should make on his own body!!! And, the doctor says to the individual who shows some concern, (paraphrasing) "Oh, its easy you can do it no problem, I've gotta run."

    Well if ownership relies on expert opinion in accounting, law, medical advice - they ought not forget that experts happen to be running the team. There is no reason to doubt that Cashman is an expert General Manager.

    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  9. #9

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962
    I know one thing, the Yankee fans don't need to hear how great these pitchers are going to be, they need to see them as great pitchers and the sooner, the better.
    Since baseball season is still about 3 1/2 months away, we will have to wait to see that on the field. In the interim we can reasonably expect that every team in baseball will try at one time or another to pry one or more of these guys away from Cashman's grasp. Its good to know what we have in the hand while others try to peddle what is in the bush.
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  10. #10

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hughes2.50
    Since baseball season is still about 3 1/2 months away, we will have to wait to see that on the field. In the interim we can reasonably expect that every team in baseball will try at one time or another to pry one or more of these guys away from Cashman's grasp. Its good to know what we have in the hand while others try to peddle what is in the bush.
    Yup, it's going to be a long winter as we read over and over again how great these three guys are going to be for the Yankees.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  11. #11

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962
    Yup, it's going to be a long winter as we read over and over again how great these three guys are going to be for the Yankees.
    I suppose the winter would be shorter then for you, if you read over and over again how the likes of Jon Heyman or Michael Kay suggest how the Yankees can collectively cut off their noses to spite their faces?
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  12. #12
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962
    I know one thing, the Yankee fans don't need to hear how great these pitchers are going to be, they need to see them as great pitchers and the sooner, the better.
    Waaah Yankee fans are excited about their prospects waaaah
    Words cannot describe how much I hate Derek Jeter and his legion of stupid ass fans.

  13. #13

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    always enjoy the read as well.

    my biggest wish is that these kids stay healthy.

    Also its interesting how Wang is always forgottten in talks of our young pitching. Sure he craped in the bed twice in the playoffs. But he did win 19 games twice in his career already. Im looking forward to a rotation of Hughes Wang Joba and Kennedy for the next 5 plus years!

  14. #14

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam18
    Waaah Yankee fans are excited about their prospects waaaah
    This is where the gratuitous attempt at the marginalization of another poster's (mine) opinions occurs (enter 1962)
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  15. #15
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Nice stuff, amico mio
    -Lou 27 (28 in 2014)
    Totus Tuus

  16. #16

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giddyup5
    always enjoy the read as well.

    my biggest wish is that these kids stay healthy.

    Also its interesting how Wang is always forgottten in talks of our young pitching. Sure he craped in the bed twice in the playoffs. But he did win 19 games twice in his career already. Im looking forward to a rotation of Hughes Wang Joba and Kennedy for the next 5 plus years!
    Thanks. You know, last year when I started using the idea of a Royal Flush (five pitchers of varying degrees of high level talent, some might consider to be like 5 aces) I noted that Wang was the least talented of the bunch. Some had trouble getting their heads around that because Wang was already a 19 game winner (this is after the 2006 season) and finished high-up in the Cy Young voting that year. Still when you look at what all of these guys are projected to be, Wang is clearly behind Hughes and Chamberlain, and probably behind Kennedy as well. I stand by that evaluation which comes from an ever increasing amount of information about each of these pitchers.
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  17. #17

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso
    Nice stuff, amico mio
    Thank you, amico mio.
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  18. #18
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giddyup5
    my biggest wish is that these kids stay healthy.
    me too.

    But for a cuationary tale for the youngsters on the board http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA...9/09290185.htm

  19. #19

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hughes2.50
    This is where the gratuitous attempt at the marginalization of another poster's (mine) opinions occurs (enter 1962)
    I have great respect for your opinion, I just don't share your optimistic view of them. I have to be honest, I have some doubts about Hughes that have trouble me from this past season. Right now, they're probably unfounded doubts and I really want them to stay that way.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  20. #20

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper
    me too.

    But for a cuationary tale for the youngsters on the board http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA...9/09290185.htm



    I've seen this example before. With all due respect to any Mets fans out there. Wilson was the only one of those pitchers who reached an elite level on the BA list #2. If you look at his career it resembles Ian Kennedy's where the numbers at level and age are compared.

    Isringhaus reached number 37 one year on the BA list and Pulphiser never made the top 100 list ever. That would be like saying that even though all three talents for the Yankees are more highly regarded than at least 2 out of the 3 Met Prospects, the Met Prospects results are a better indicator than the results the Marlins obtained with their prospects.

    Wilson got hurt, Pulphiser was probably never a more highly regarded prospect than Tyler Clippard was, and Isringhausen had the most success, and he wasn't nearly as highly rated as the Yankee Troika.

    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  21. #21

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962
    I have great respect for your opinion, I just don't share your optimistic view of them. I have to be honest, I have some doubts about Hughes that have trouble me from this past season. Right now, they're probably unfounded doubts and I really want them to stay that way.
    You have every reason to have personal doubts. Want to tell me what they are? Like most people my two biggest concerns after the return in August were the lack of velocity returned to where it was, and, the unwillingness to throw the curveball and too much reliance on the relatively mediocre slider in lieu of throwing that curveball. I think that has been and will be continued to be corrected by staying on Hughes' conditioning program designed to strengthen his lower half, and, the reconnection with Eiland who will keep him totally focused on his correct mechanics and approach.
    Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.

  22. #22

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    With Kennedy the Yankees have one of the most cerebral pitchers ever in their organization. Like Hughes, Kennedy has a tremendous feel for how to pitch (combined with a sophisticated knowledge of pitching). And, although Kennedy doesn't have Hughes stuff (when Hughes is healthy as he was in the playoffs), Kennedy does have the ability to change speeds, out-think hitters, and hit his target with impeccable command and control. For old-timers among the readers, I would compare Kennedy's style, stuff, and moxie to a, young, right-handed version of Whitey Ford

    Hughes with all due respect a closer comparison with Kennedy is Catfish Hunter...even beyond the fact that both are right handed, they both locate their fast balls, change speeds and have the slider, not the curve, like Ford as their out pitch. I think all three guys have ace potential. I know people say Kennedy's stuff is not as good, but he will not be a pitcher who wins during the regular season and not in the playoffs, he will be a clutch pitcher as well.

  23. #23

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hughes2.50
    You have every reason to have personal doubts. Want to tell me what they are? Like most people my two biggest concerns after the return in August were the lack of velocity returned to where it was, and, the unwillingness to throw the curveball and too much reliance on the relatively mediocre slider in lieu of throwing that curveball. I think that has been and will be continued to be corrected by staying on Hughes' conditioning program designed to strengthen his lower half, and, the reconnection with Eiland who will keep him totally focused on his correct mechanics and approach.
    Those are my concerns too. His velocity being down and not throwing his curve or changeup enough. I agree that his lower trunk needs to get stronger with more endurance for the long haul of a ML season.
    Fire Cashman, but Hal Steinbrenner is the root of Yankee woes.

  24. #24
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    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    I'm just saying that for every successful tale of Maddox/Avery - Glavin - Smoltz or Zito - Hudson - Mulder there are plenty of other prospects that just don't pan out like you would hope. Prior - Wood anyone? And even the two threesomes I mentioned managed only a single WS title between the staffs though there were numerous playoff appearances.

    Young pitching just has a habit of hitting a wall or getting hurt. Liriano was contending for the Cy-young just 18 months ago when bam - season+ over. Maybe he comes back as dominant, maybe not. We'll find out soon. But no one really knows when TSJ is just one pitch away or not.

    I hope all three hit their ceiling and then some all in pinstripes but I think its blind optimism with some of the projected numbers I saw in the prediction thread. Its like some people think these kids are going to all finish in the top-10 in cy-young voting next year.

  25. #25

    Re: What do the Yankees have with their Pitching Troika?

    Well a big part of the health issue is being very careful with the innings, which is why Mussina is still important, and why Pettitte's return made it way less likely a trade gets made.

    Edit: My point being that 550 IP from those 3 in 2008 is probably around the limit, no?

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