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  1. #1

    Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Great work, Phil (Nice Walt Whitman reference, too).

    After reading Phil's column, I wanted to learn more, so I googled "Jeter Comparision Probabilistic Model of Range". I was shocked at what I discovered. We already know how Jeter compares with other Major League shortstops, however, it's obviously much worse than any of us thought. See below.

    Probabilistic Model of Range

    53,562 - Clarence Clemons (E. Street Band)
    53,563 - The Skipper (Gilligan's Island)
    53,564 - Mike Huckabee before the weight loss (Former Governor)
    53,565 - The fat guy from Lost (Lost)
    53,566 - Uncle Fester (The Addams Family)
    53,567 - Derek Jeter (Yankees)
    53,568 - Weezie (The Jefferson's)

    The Yankees have an elephant in the room, let's just hope that they see the elephant.
    Last edited by Born in the Bronx; 11-12-07 at 08:08 AM.
    Die hard Yankee fan since 1974.

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  2. #2
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Thanks BitB---

    I do find it hard to write the twice a year Jeter is a bad shortshop article. But I feel I have to in order to be objective. Also, there is always new data that comes out and proves it over and over.

    Cash is a smart man. And as Jeter gets into his mid 30s, they have to have a plan to move him...It's truly a wonder to me that he is still at SS.

    Anyway, for those who think I am too negative, Bobby Abreu is the cat's pajamas...I think I'll do something on him soon.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  3. #3

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    You're welcome Phil.

    I wonder when (if they haven't already) they will start thinking about a position change.
    Die hard Yankee fan since 1974.

    [URL="http://www.claybuchholzloveslaptops.blogspot.com"][/URL]

  4. #4
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by Born in the Bronx
    You're welcome Phil.

    I wonder when (if they haven't already) they will start thinking about a position change.
    I am sure Cashman knows all this. But it's hard to ask an icon to move. Granted, defense is not as important as things like OBP, but still, the Yanks need every edge they can get.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  5. #5

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    The Yanks already have the Torre situation, the Rivera situation, the Pettite situation, and the Posada situation. Don't know if, politically, they want to complete the cycle this off-season and start a Jeter situation.

  6. #6

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGrass
    The Yanks already have the Torre situation, the Rivera situation, the Pettite situation, and the Posada situation. Don't know if, politically, they want to complete the cycle this off-season and start a Jeter situation.
    Ideally, Captain Jeter will put the team before himself, recognize his deficiency, and volunteer to move. I don't think the chances of that happening are particularly high.

  7. #7

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Named Fred
    Ideally, Captain Jeter will put the team before himself, recognize his deficiency, and volunteer to move. I don't think the chances of that happening are particularly high.
    if jeter wanted to put the team ahead of himself, he would have moved already
    Kyle

  8. #8
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Jeter`s play at SS is the least of the Yankees problems right now nor are they the reasons they haven`t made it out of the 1st round........

    "Happy Wife.........Happy Life" - unknown

  9. #9
    You Can't Predict It! bigjf's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    I think a little too much is made about Jeter's range or lack thereof. He's not the best, especially when going to his left, but he's made some of the best plays ever seen by a shortstop. I don't have to run through the list. Granted, these are isolated, non-everyday plays, but I'm not about to revoke his gold glove either.

  10. #10
    werkt fir mee Huktonfonix's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Do you think Jeter is aware of his "deficiency"? His range has declined gradually as he's aged (and it wasn't amazing to begin with). Do you honestly think he can notice a difference? Does he think "5 years ago, I had that ball?"

    Defense is extremely difficult to quantify objectively. I bet it's even harder for the guy on the field to evaluate his own range.

    Jeter's defense might be hurting the team (I still think he's a big net plus at SS when you figure in his bat) but the people calling him selfish are being unfair. If he's asked to move and pulls a Soriano, by all means rip into him. Until that happens, he's simply doing his job as well as he can.
    42 is the answer

    Gets to see even more of AJ Burnett now!

  11. #11

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Some of you act like the Yankees have a superior SS that Jeter is holding back If there were a better option it would be a issue but since there isn't anyone better available and Jeter's play at SS is the very least of this teams problems it's a non issue. Considering he always puts the team ahead of himself it wouldn't even be a issue if there were a better option.
    [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m241/assedout/SBXLIICHAMPS.jpg[/IMG]

  12. #12
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    I don't think anyone is saying that Jeter's lack of Defensive is the reason the Yanks are not advancing. The point is rather that there are many deficiencies, this being one of them.

    And, of course the Yanks do not have a viable option. But that is because they have not identified it as a problem that needs fixing. That worries me.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  13. #13
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by The Straw
    Some of you act like the Yankees have a superior SS that Jeter is holding back If there were a better option it would be a issue but since there isn't anyone better available and Jeter's play at SS is the very least of this teams problems it's a non issue. Considering he always puts the team ahead of himself it wouldn't even be a issue if there were a better option.
    I was thinking this too... I mean, I guess we could say that Jeter could volunteer to play 3rd and Cashman could be going after a shortstop rather than a third baseman, but the truth is that we have a bunch of holes right now, and its probably not the time to create one at shortstop.

  14. #14
    Passion For Pinstripes mrmike98's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by montrealer
    Jeter`s play at SS is the least of the Yankees problems right now nor are they the reasons they haven`t made it out of the 1st round........
    Excellent! As I've asked before how many wins has it cost the team? How many pitchers are bitching about their ERA's because of Jeter?

    It is something that will be addressed in the next few years.

  15. #15
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain
    I don't think anyone is saying that Jeter's lack of Defensive is the reason the Yanks are not advancing. The point is rather that there are many deficiencies, this being one of them.

    And, of course the Yanks do not have a viable option. But that is because they have not identified it as a problem that needs fixing. That worries me.
    Just because they haven't moved him doesn't mean they are blind to his deficiencies or failed to identify it as a problem. Carmen Angelini, SS, 2010.

  16. #16
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeebot
    Just because they haven't moved him doesn't mean they are blind to his deficiencies or failed to identify it as a problem. Carmen Angelini, SS, 2010.

    That would be AWESOME.

    Pirela or one of the others would be sweet, too.
    Mo' Nut: One Smoove Brotha.

    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  17. #17

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeebot
    Just because they haven't moved him doesn't mean they are blind to his deficiencies or failed to identify it as a problem. Carmen Angelini, SS, 2010.
    Godd point! also picking up Alberto Gonzalez in the Johnson trade this year and drafting C.J. Henry in 2005 (traded) are clear indications that the Yankees haven't been ignoring the issue. The Dreadful Rotation and Pathetic Bull Pen are much more pressing issues so they naturally get more attention.
    [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m241/assedout/SBXLIICHAMPS.jpg[/IMG]

  18. #18
    Life is short. Drink beer yankeeman61's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    The continuing saga of Jeter's Defense reminds me of an old comic strip of an analyst and his patient.

    PATIENT (lying on couch): "I have this fear that I bore people"

    ANALYST: "Must we go over that again?"


    I would like to see actual proof of how Jeter's defense has prevented the Yankees from winning a WS title. Range stats be damned, he helps the Yankees win a lot more than he helps the Yankees lose.

    Topic beaten, shot, strangled, burned and tortured to death. And now that ARod and Torre are gone it's all we have to narrow the blame to.
    (Signature removed by moderator. No animated images allowed in sigs. Feel free to use a conventional, small-size image. Thanks for your understanding.)

  19. #19

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Some interesting logic on display in here.

  20. #20

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by The Straw
    Some of you act like the Yankees have a superior SS that Jeter is holding back If there were a better option it would be a issue but since there isn't anyone better available and Jeter's play at SS is the very least of this teams problems it's a non issue. Considering he always puts the team ahead of himself it wouldn't even be a issue if there were a better option.
    I love Jeter and don't find his defense as horrendous as others. But this post makes no sense since he was holding back a better shortstop for 4 seasons and his name was Alex Rodriguez
    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Yankee
    Who in their right mind would pay several thousand bucks to have some chick poop on their face like a beard?


  21. #21

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeeman61
    Topic beaten, shot, strangled, burned and tortured to death. And now that ARod and Torre are gone it's all we have to narrow the blame to.
    My exact feelings on the topic. Jeter is not moving next year. One day he will move just like Ripken. So why do some Yankee fans still obsess over it every offseason?

  22. #22
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by Born in the Bronx
    Great work, Phil (Nice Walt Whitman reference, too).

    After reading Phil's column, I wanted to learn more, so I googled "Jeter Comparision Probabilistic Model of Range". I was shocked at what I discovered. We already know how Jeter compares with other Major League shortstops, however, it's obviously much worse than any of us thought. See below.

    Probabilistic Model of Range

    53,562 - Clarence Clemons (E. Street Band)
    53,563 - The Skipper (Gilligan's Island)
    53,564 - Mike Huckabee before the weight loss (Former Governor)
    53,565 - The fat guy from Lost (Lost)
    53,566 - Uncle Fester (The Addams Family)
    53,567 - Derek Jeter (Yankees)
    53,568 - Weezie (The Jefferson's)

    The Yankees cerainly have an elephant in the room, let's just hope that they see the elephant.

    -Lou 27 (28 in 2014)
    Totus Tuus

  23. #23

    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeyYankee2638
    I love Jeter and don't find his defense as horrendous as others. But this post makes no sense since he was holding back a better shortstop for 4 seasons and his name was Alex Rodriguez
    Stop living in the past If May-Rod played SS today he would embarrass himself.
    [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m241/assedout/SBXLIICHAMPS.jpg[/IMG]

  24. #24
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain
    Thanks BitB---

    I do find it hard to write the twice a year Jeter is a bad shortshop article. But I feel I have to in order to be objective. Also, there is always new data that comes out and proves it over and over.

    Cash is a smart man. And as Jeter gets into his mid 30s, they have to have a plan to move him...It's truly a wonder to me that he is still at SS.

    Anyway, for those who think I am too negative, Bobby Abreu is the cat's pajamas...I think I'll do something on him soon.

    Brilliant read, as always, Phil.
    -Lou 27 (28 in 2014)
    Totus Tuus

  25. #25
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    Re: Phil Allard's Column - Re: Jeter's range

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeeman61
    The continuing saga of Jeter's Defense reminds me of an old comic strip of an analyst and his patient.

    PATIENT (lying on couch): "I have this fear that I bore people"

    ANALYST: "Must we go over that again?"


    I would like to see actual proof of how Jeter's defense has prevented the Yankees from winning a WS title. Range stats be damned, he helps the Yankees win a lot more than he helps the Yankees lose.

    Topic beaten, shot, strangled, burned and tortured to death. And now that ARod and Torre are gone it's all we have to narrow the blame to.
    Did you read the article being discussed? I ask because I don't believe there was anything about Jeter preventing the Yankees from winning the WS. In Phil's own words, the point of the article was "the Yanks must entertain the idea of moving Jeter to another position."

    Is that really a bad position to take at this point in his career? Is there something wrong with wanting to field the best team possible? No blame is being cast.

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