Revamp the Yanks Plan

[TMS]

here's what i would do if i were Cashman:

1 - trade Johnny Damon for Joe Crede - White Sox will be looking for a leadoff hitter because Posednik is just too weak a hitter to be a viable option, & Crede fills our need for a righty hitting 3B w/some pop

2 - trade Wang & Hughes for Johan Santana - yeah, i know it's alot to give up, but come on, we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball here, & a lefty at that... he'd be perfect for YS & gives us the ace that we desperately need... it's a no brainer... a starting rotation of Santana, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy & Moose matches up with any other rotation in baseball including the Red Sox

3 - sign Torii Hunter to play CF & move Melky over to LF - good character guy, still in his prime, & steals bases w/some pop from the right side (will lessen the blow from losing Damon & ARod's stolen base production... we need to have some guys who can run the bases on the team so we can play a more national league style ball next year under Joe G)... & we all know about his stellar defense & range in the OF... he'd save runs w/his ability to run down balls that other guys can't get to in the gaps... w/ARod off the books, we have plenty of money to spend this offseason... why not use it? an OF of Hunter, Melky & Abreu looks pretty damn good to me.

4 - sign Jeremy Affeldt for the bullpen - big, hard throwing lefty reliever will add some nice depth to our setup corps

5 - obviously bring back Mo & Jorge

6 - let Giambi, Betemit, Phillips & Duncan fight it out for 1B in ST - if 1 guy clearly outperforms the others, then i make him the fulltime starter... if there is no clear cut winner, i go w/a platoon of Betemit & Duncan at 1B, make Phillips my utility guy on the bench, & bite the bullet using Giambi as a lefty power hitting pinch hitter/backup DH option for the season until his contract runs out.


there's a team built on pitching, defense, & a well balanced lineup of youth & vets w/no 1 player being looked upon to carry the offensive load, pretty much the same formula we used to win all those championships in the 90's to begin with.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

Sorry, I almost deficated myself upon reading #2, ironic?

[In Mo I Trust]

1,2, and 3 are awful moves IMO.

[Mark19]

I'm sorry but trading Hughes and Wang for Santana is a terrible idea. Furthermore, Crede isn't superior to Betemit and Giambi will get 500 ABs if he is healthy.

[Maynerd]

1,2, and 3 are awful moves IMO.

Agreed, particularly #2. I wouldn't want to give away the future for a one-year rental of any pitcher, including Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson in their primes.

[TMS]

1,2, and 3 are awful moves IMO.

if you look at the end product i don't think they are.

what's a better rotation:
Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes & Kennedy

or

Santana, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy & Moose?


i happen to think the latter is a lot better personally.

as for #1 being bad, why do you think we're getting the bad end of the deal? Crede's not a bad player at all & we have a big hole at 3B to fill. You don't think replacing Damon in the OF w/Hunter is an upgrade either?

[TMS]

I'm sorry but trading Hughes and Wang for Santana is a terrible idea. Furthermore, Crede isn't superior to Betemit and Giambi will get 500 ABs if he is healthy.

Crede hit 30 HR's the last full season he played & you don't think he's an upgrade over Betemit who batted .220 for us last year?

[In Mo I Trust]

So we would be giving up Hughes and Wang for one year of Santana and the right to give him an extension at 8/200 or something absurd along those lines.

[In Mo I Trust]

Crede hit 30 HR's the last full season he played & you don't think he's an upgrade over Betemit who batted .220 for us last year?

Crede has a .305 career OBP. He also has back problems which usually don't just disappear.

[TMS]

Agreed, particularly #2. I wouldn't want to give away the future for a one-year rental of any pitcher, including Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson in their primes.

What if it came w/a contract extension?

[Mark19]

You can't have 4 players fighting it out for 1st base when one of them is going to earn $21 million.

Simply put, this isn't a very practical set of plans.

[DaPip1998]

Giambi will get 500 ABs if he is healthy.

We've been saying that since 2003.

[teknetic]

Hughes and Wang for anyone is unreasonable.

[Zimmers' Helmet]

here's what i would do if i were Cashman:

1 - trade Johnny Damon for Joe Crede - White Sox will be looking for a leadoff hitter because Posednik is just too weak a hitter to be a viable option, & Crede fills our need for a righty hitting 3B w/some pop.

No way do I make this deal. Where is the logic in trading our best defensive left fielder and leadoff hitter for a 3rd baseman coming off major back surgery? If Cashman trades for Crede, he shouldn't have to give up more than a couple of marginal minor leaguers for him.

2 - trade Wang & Hughes for Johan Santana - yeah, i know it's alot to give up, but come on, we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball here, & a lefty at that... he'd be perfect for YS & gives us the ace that we desperately need... it's a no brainer... a starting rotation of Santana, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy & Moose matches up with any other rotation in baseball including the Red Sox.

Wang yes, Hughes - never. Best pitcher in baseball or not; the Yankees would be giving up an elite pitcher and a future elite pitcher who's got tons of upside. The whole point to trading for Santana would be to upgrade the rotation. Trading two high end pitchers for 1 doesn't improve this rotation - not when you consider the alternatives to Hughes - namely Mussina. No thanks. Wang and a position player, yes. Hughes - no.

3 - sign Torii Hunter to play CF & move Melky over to LF - good character guy, still in his prime, & steals bases w/some pop from the right side (will lessen the blow from losing Damon & ARod's stolen base production... we need to have some guys who can run the bases on the team so we can play a more national league style ball next year under Joe G)... & we all know about his stellar defense & range in the OF... he'd save runs w/his ability to run down balls that other guys can't get to in the gaps... w/ARod off the books, we have plenty of money to spend this offseason... why not use it? an OF of Hunter, Melky & Abreu looks pretty damn good to me..

Torii Hunter would be a colossal mistake. He just came off a career season. The amount of money that he is going to cost doesn't warrant it. This is another unmoveable contract waiting to happen.

[GLAT]

Ok, then what happens when Pettitte retires after 2008 and Moose has nothing left...

Joba, Kennedy, Satana and.... assuming Joba can be a starter, I'm still not so sure he won't end up as the next closer.

[TMS]

So we would be giving up Hughes and Wang for one year of Santana and the right to give him an extension at 8/200 or something absurd along those lines.

exactly. why is that a bad plan in your eyes? what is Hughes exactly? does anyone know at this point? the kid's got a nice upside & showed some nice signs to end the season, but we're talking about Johan Santana here. the Yankees will be willing to pay that extension for Santana in a heartbeat, as would a host of other teams out there looking to add a HOF calibre ace in his prime, so why get into a bidding war if you can get him now if he agrees to sign a longterm extension? he could easily make the difference in a postseason short series.

[Claudell Washington]

2 is definitely a "no brainer," though maybe not in the way you intended it.

[OldYankeeFan]

if you look at the end product i don't think they are.

what's a better rotation:
Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes & Kennedy

or

Santana, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy & Moose?


i happen to think the latter is a lot better personally.

But you are only looking at ONE year! So the 2nd year if Sanrana doesn't sign we have ... Joba, Kennedy and who?

I would really like us to stick to our plan and NOT trade any of the kids. We CAN win with them, and wait for FA to pick up whatever else we need.

[sahara]

I'm just going to assume this an argument against revamping the Yanks' plan and there's an argument for coming soon.

[wang+cano=future]

I would keep whoever we would give up for Crede and put Betemit there. Along with deepening the bench, acquiring Betemit was done to provide insurance at the 3B position for 2008 in case ARod opted out.

I would not trade 2 young very good pitchers for 1 year of Santana. Why not go into the season with a rotation of Wang - Pettitte (I think he will return) - Hughes - Joba - Moose/Kennedy with players like Horne waiting in the wings.

I would also not go anywhere near Hunter. Not only would he cost us a first rounder, he would block OF prospects who are moving up, cost a ton of money and would be a departure from Cashman's plan the last 2 years (which is internal player development, not big, long contracts). I would be fine with keeping Melky in CF, and rotating Damon and Matsui in LF, DH and rest (when Giambi is DHing) to keep both rested, less injury prone and fresh throughout the season.

I agree that JoPo and Mo need to come back, and that Affeldt would be a nice addition to the bullpen. I would also look at Iwase for the lefty in the pen, and possible Igawa......

I wouldn't bother letting Giambi try to win the 1B job because he won't. Betemit will be at third. The job seems to be Andy Phillips, and considering what he did there last season I am comfortable with that.

[mrmike98]

[quote=TMS]here's what i would do if i were Cashman:

1 - trade Johnny Damon for Joe Crede - White Sox will be looking for a leadoff hitter because Posednik is just too weak a hitter to be a viable option, & Crede fills our need for a righty hitting 3B w/some pop

I'd be careful with Crede. His OPS is not too sexy. Is he capable of drawing a walk?

[TMS]

No way do I make this deal. Where is the logic in trading our best defensive left fielder and leadoff hitter for a 3rd baseman coming off major back surgery? If Cashman trades for Crede, he shouldn't have to give up more than a couple of marginal minor leaguers for him.

the logic is we're replacing him w/the best defensive CFer in baseball & moving a better defending OFer in Melky over to LF... we're also unloading Damon's salary off the books... he isn't exactly the picture of durability either right now... his body is about to break down & he's lost some pop off his bat over the past year... we need to replace ARod's offense somehow, & adding 2 players like Hunter & Crede to the roster would help to do that IMO.

Wang yes, Hughes - never. Best pitcher in baseball or not; the Yankees would be giving up an elite pitcher and a future elite pitcher who's got tons of upside. The whole point to trading for Santana would be to upgrade the rotation. Trading two high end pitchers for 1 doesn't improve this rotation - not when you consider the alternatives to Hughes - namely Mussina. No thanks. Wang and a position player, yes. Hughes - no.

fair enough & like i said i realize it's a ton to give up... i personally think it would give this franchise more of a chance to win championships going forward than not... Moose will be gone after this season, whereupon he could be replaced by either Sanchez, Horne or perhaps another FA pitcher that becomes available to round out the bottom of the rotation... as much of an upside as Hughes may have, we still really don't know if he'll ever become the calibre pitcher that Johan already is.

Torii Hunter would be a colossal mistake. He just came off a career season. The amount of money that he is going to cost doesn't warrant it. This is another unmoveable contract waiting to happen.

if we can move Damon, we can move Torii Hunter. we're not talking Jason Giambi level dollars here afterall... he may garner an annual contract in the area of $13-$14 mil per in my estimation... i don't see any teams out there who will give him any more than that.

[TMS]

I'm just going to assume this an argument against revamping the Yanks' plan and there's an argument for coming soon.

i love it when someone posts an idea & it gets flamed w/o any intelligible response to counter it with.

[TMS]

Ok, then what happens when Pettitte retires after 2008 and Moose has nothing left...

Joba, Kennedy, Satana and.... assuming Joba can be a starter, I'm still not so sure he won't end up as the next closer.

are you seriously worried about who we're going to get to be our #5 starter after next season & allow that to stop you from going after the best pitcher in baseball? who cares? we can see what Umberto Sanchez or Alan Horne's got. or there may be a FA pitcher out there who can be signed to reasonable dollars to round out the bottom of the rotation.

[TMS]

But you are only looking at ONE year! So the 2nd year if Sanrana doesn't sign we have ... Joba, Kennedy and who?

I would really like us to stick to our plan and NOT trade any of the kids. We CAN win with them, and wait for FA to pick up whatever else we need.

that's a plan i don't mind either, but i think this idea builds the team for a championship next season w/o mortgaging the future at all.