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YanksFanTillDeath
10-10-06, 04:38 PM
For now ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2620449

Taylor
10-10-06, 04:38 PM
&$%# yeah!!

I wish i could say I told you so to a million people on this forum :)

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 04:39 PM
What would Cashman say? "Yes we are looking into trading Alex for whatever we can get for him".

Wade_Taylor
10-10-06, 04:40 PM
Just like they were prepared to go with Bubba Crosby in CF and that they were not trading for Abreu

Taylor
10-10-06, 04:40 PM
What would Cashman say? "Yes we are looking into trading Alex for whatever we can get for him".

"We will listen to any offers that will help us improve our team, including Mr. Rodriguez"

CyYoung4Vazquez
10-10-06, 04:41 PM
I agree with keeping Alex around. No one is going to offer any competitive trade packages. Hopefully he and Torre can make amends. He needs to put this season behind him and come back strong next season. Besides, how much worse can things get?

No. 13
10-10-06, 04:41 PM
While I"m excited to hear this, I am also very surprised. I personally thought it was Torre or A-rod. But I still am going to wait because anything can happen from here to next April.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 04:41 PM
What would Cashman say? "Yes we are looking into trading Alex for whatever we can get for him".

:lol:

I will believe AROD will be on the 2007 Yankees after the team breaks spring training.

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 04:42 PM
"We will listen to any offers that will help us improve our team, including Mr. Rodriguez"

even saying that much would reduce his trade value. Even more so, if no trade proposal comes that the Yanks would do, Alex would know that the Yanks were trying to unload him. What he said in this article is exactly what he said Saturday and he would say that whether he is or is not looking to trade him. He would be an idiot if he did otherwise.

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 04:43 PM
This means nothing. Perhaps Cashman truly does want Arod to stay. Its a possibility. But, even if he did want to trade him he could never say so. Because what if he did want to trade him but then never found a deal to act upon. Now you're stuck with a guy that knows the GM doesn't even want him there. All it would do is further screw up Arod's poor, fragile state of mind.

TheBamTino24
10-10-06, 04:43 PM
I hope Torre, Jeter and Rodriguez just get together and work this stuff out if he's really staying.

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 04:43 PM
Just like they were prepared to go with Bubba Crosby in CF and that they were not trading for Abreu

Ditto. People can believe PR statements to the press like this and the Bubba one if they want. I'll believe Alex will be on the Yankees actually when the season breaks next year if he's still here.

No. 13
10-10-06, 04:43 PM
even saying that much would reduce his trade value. Even more so, if no trade proposal comes that the Yanks would do, Alex would know that the Yanks were trying to unload him. What he said in this article is exactly what he said Saturday and he would say that whether he is or is not looking to trade him. He would be an idiot if he did otherwise. How so?

Casey37
10-10-06, 04:43 PM
Thank you for making my day! Looking forward to seeing Alex in pinstripes again next year! :gulp:

THEBOSS84
10-10-06, 04:44 PM
That's my boy!

Nick71
10-10-06, 04:44 PM
Cashman has to say this.

By saying he has not intention of dealing Arod, and that other teams have shown interest, it would only increase Arod's value. Like others have said, if he comes out and says he's exploring a trade, it would only decrease the value the Yankees get in return.

Gehrig'sGhost
10-10-06, 04:44 PM
I keep hearing how A-Rod would be a perfect fit here, a perfect fit there, but nothing with respect to what those respective teams would give up. Jim Rome says he should go to the Padres. FOR WHOM?!!! I'll wager that A-Rod is available in the right deal but they are just going to GIVE him away. I can't think of many players I'd take for him - unless it was something like A-Rod, Matsui, and Phillips for Pujols and Rolen.

DaPip1998
10-10-06, 04:44 PM
NO ONE is untouchable. Ever.

Some players are shopped, other it would take a "knock your socks off" offer to move. But no one is ever untouchable.

cmaff05
10-10-06, 04:45 PM
I'll be really dissapointed in Cashman if Arod isn't in pinstripes come Spring Training. We aren't getting jake peavy or johan santana or jesus himself, so there is no reason to trade Arod.

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 04:45 PM
How so?

Other teams will know the Yanks are trying to unload him. But the second part of my statement is the more pertinent issue. I can't think of too many GMs that publically stated that they are looking to trade a player unless they were a problem (i.e. Manny in Boston).

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 04:45 PM
How so?

because if other teams know that he's available, they wouldnt have to be so aggressive to try to obtain him. if other teams are told he isnt available, but still want him, they might feel tempted to sweeten the pot for NY

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 04:48 PM
"We will listen to any offers that will help us improve our team, including Mr. Rodriguez"

This means nothing. Cashman also said he was content going into the season with Bubba Crosby at centerfielder. He is trying to get as much leverage as possible, which is the smart thing to do.

NYIndian2005
10-10-06, 04:48 PM
We ain't gonna win anything with this bunch that's for sure. Its time to clean house.

Nick71
10-10-06, 04:48 PM
How so?

Because it would give off the sense that Cashman wants to get rid of Arod, which wouldn't put him at a position of strength in trade negotiations.

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 04:48 PM
I'll be really dissapointed in Cashman if Arod isn't in pinstripes come Spring Training. We aren't getting jake peavy or johan santana or jesus himself, so there is no reason to trade Arod.

That is not the point. Arod can still bring great return and also by dealing him, you get rid of all his baggage that is nothing but negativity in the clubhouse. As crazy as it may sound, and I know I'll get bashed, his numbers aren't as valuable to the team as they appear on a stat sheet because every mistake he makes is made into a glaring one and all it does is bring negative BS to the team.

YanksFanTillDeath
10-10-06, 04:49 PM
Alex is a big choker, but he is not the problem on this team, what we need is young good pitching and get rid of thos old farts we have in the team, anyone above 37 should go with the exception of #42...

So lets put this year behind us, and start working on getting arm here...:eek:

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 04:49 PM
That is not the point. Arod can still bring great return and also by dealing him, you get rid of all his baggage that is nothing but negativity in the clubhouse. As crazy as it may sound, and I know I'll get bashed, his numbers aren't as valuable to the team as they appear on a stat sheet because every mistake he makes is made into a glaring one and all it does is bring negative BS to the team.

Trading him for Ervin Santana would be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the franchise

Danny T's Biceps
10-10-06, 04:50 PM
Bah. We can win without A-Rod. We DO need pitching. If we can use one to get the other, I'm all for it.

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 04:50 PM
Trading him for Ervin Santana would be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the franchise

Which is why you dont trade him for Ervin Santana.

No. 13
10-10-06, 04:51 PM
Ok thanks for answer guys. Then like I said earlier, either Torre of A-rod goes and now we know that Torre is here to stay for another year we know A-rod is the odd man out.

Gehrig'sGhost
10-10-06, 04:51 PM
Bah. We can win without A-Rod. We DO need pitching. If we can use one to get the other, I'm all for it.

Bah! If you're trading A-Rod for pitching, it better be Cy Young-like and a guarantee against injury.

Nick71
10-10-06, 04:52 PM
Does anyone find it odd that Cashman "revealed" that other teams pursued Arod throughout the season? I dunno, normally, would a GM do this? Seems like he's trying to let it be known that there's a lot of interest in Arod, and that other teams will have some competition if they want to acquire him.

Maybe I'm reading into things too much, though.

CptCrunch
10-10-06, 04:53 PM
I hope Torre, Jeter and Rodriguez just get together and work this stuff out if he's really staying.

Let's get Dr. Phil on the case.

No. 13
10-10-06, 04:53 PM
Why do I get the feeling this thread is turning into Trade A-rod Part Deux

cmaff05
10-10-06, 04:53 PM
That is not the point. Arod can still bring great return and also by dealing him, you get rid of all his baggage that is nothing but negativity in the clubhouse. As crazy as it may sound, and I know I'll get bashed, his numbers aren't as valuable to the team as they appear on a stat sheet because every mistake he makes is made into a glaring one and all it does is bring negative BS to the team.

What would you trade Arod for? I'm just curious because i'm sure i'll get another off-the-wall suggestion from another fantasy gm..

THEBOSS84
10-10-06, 04:54 PM
What I keep telling people in my office is, even if A-rod batted 5-14 (.357) in the ALDS, would we have won that series? NO

If he batted .357 for the series and we lost, what would the perception be about A-rod's postseason ability (obviously this is all theoretical)

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 04:55 PM
Which is why you dont trade him for Ervin Santana.

Too bad half the board wants to

4bronxbombers
10-10-06, 04:55 PM
"I fully expect him to be here," Cashman said Tuesday. "We're going to figure this thing out together."

:cheer: :cheer: This made my day! Along with the Torre news. Now to focus on starting pitching................

Danny T's Biceps
10-10-06, 04:56 PM
Bah! If you're trading A-Rod for pitching, it better be Cy Young-like and a guarantee against injury.

A-Rod is overrated. He's not the position player equivalent of Cy Young, or even Johan Santana.

He's a the best trading chip we have. We'd be FOOLS to not consider it. We have plenty of players who put up big numbers offensively. Did Seattle suffer from his absence? Did Texas stop scoring runs?

Pitching. We need pitching. It's why we won in the 90s with inferior offensive teams. Period.

Kiwiwriter
10-10-06, 04:56 PM
I hope Torre, Jeter and Rodriguez just get together and work this stuff out if he's really staying.

I said that on another thread...these guys are not dummies, they are proud, sensitive, professionals, and pretty intelligent guys as baseball players go.

They should sit down in the off-season, and work things out...Derek should have a one-on-one with A-Rod and they should not leave the room until everything is resolved. Then A-Rod should do the same thing with Joe Torre...and maybe the three should have a follow-up to make sure they're all on the same page.

I'm gonna get Biblical here..the prophet Isaiah, who outscores Jeane Dixon as a seer, said, "Come, let us reason together." Isaiah was right thousands of years ago, and he's still right.

A-Rod still doesn't grasp what it means to be a Yankee, and he needs to. I wish Ellie Howard or Joe DiMaggio could come back from the dead and explain it to him.

This whole post-season has upset me more than anything that has happened to the Yankees since Thurman Munson died, if that's possible. 2004 I could deal with in that we had no pitching. 2001 was sheer horrid luck. 2003 and 2005, I could deal with us being outplayed by a less exhausted team. But this was ridiculous. We figured we could beat Detroit by simply hitting them over the head with a Yankee media guide. Overwhelm them with gaudy statistics. When all these talking heads were talking about the Yankees being a new "Murderers' Row," I was saying, "They're not that good...and there's no pitching."

We gotta stop believing our own hype and wasting energy on soap operas and play good fundamental baseball.

If I could do it, I'd get A-Rod all the Yankee DVDs...he should just sit down and watch them. Especially the Yankeeographies on DiMaggio, Mantle, Gehrig, and Willie Randolph. I mean...what is more pure than Joe DiMaggio, being asked, "What's your biggest thrill as a Yankee?"

And he answers, "Just putting on the uniform."

Really...it doesn't get any better than that.

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 04:57 PM
Too bad half the board wants to

Thats why they arent the GM. What Cashman has to do is play it like he is playing it now, like there is no rush to do anything but be willing to entertain the possibility of trading him if he gets blown away, and then get teams bidding against eachother. Then see what the best offer is and go from there.

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 04:58 PM
A-Rod is overrated. He's not the position player equivalent of Cy Young, or even Johan Santana.

He's a the best trading chip we have. We'd be FOOLS to not consider it. We have plenty of players who put up big numbers offensively. Did Seattle suffer from his absence? Did Texas stop scoring runs?

Pitching. We need pitching. It's why we won in the 90s with inferior offensive teams. Period.

He isnt overrated. Do you know how many players would kill to have a .914 OPS in a down year?? For many players, thats considered a great year.

He could easily have a 1.000 OPS season next year. Unless I'm getting an ace, he stays.

Soriambi
10-10-06, 04:58 PM
A-Rod is overrated. He's not the position player equivalent of Cy Young, or even Johan Santana.


I actually think that A-rod is extremely underrated right now, because everyone seems to think that he's not very good or that he had a bad year or that he has some huge character flaw that makes him a cancer to whatever team he's on or that makes him incapable of getting big hits or whatever. A lot of people don't seem to recognize that he's still an outstanding player who had a fantastic year.

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 04:59 PM
He isnt overrated. Do you know how many players would kill to have a .914 OPS in a down year?? For many players, thats considered a great year.

He could easily have a 1.000 OPS season next year. Unless I'm getting an ace, he stays.

I agree, and I believe if Cashman plays this right, he can get that Ace. If not you keep him.

Spiker101
10-10-06, 04:59 PM
even saying that much would reduce his trade value. Even more so, if no trade proposal comes that the Yanks would do, Alex would know that the Yanks were trying to unload him. What he said in this article is exactly what he said Saturday and he would say that whether he is or is not looking to trade him. He would be an idiot if he did otherwise.

Exactly.

cmaff05
10-10-06, 04:59 PM
Arod is one of the best players to play the game. He's a good guy.. and although he's a little insecure, he's still got the best interests of the team at heart. I want that kind of player on my team.

Cashman can make it work with Arod on this team. I want him to make it work.

ICEBERG18
10-10-06, 05:00 PM
Cashman said he expects 10-12 teams to call about A-rod like they did at the trade deadline, but A-rod will not be traded.

Source: M. Kay show

Cashman also said most of the stuff that you're hearing about the Yankees from the Media etc. is inaccurate

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 05:00 PM
I agree, and I believe if Cashman plays this right, he can get that Ace. If not you keep him.

Who would you want? Peavy and Zambrano would be two guys who if offered to me, I'd listen.

Joe23
10-10-06, 05:00 PM
Arod needs to get off the private jet/different hotel/own personal trainer thing...his headcase problem starts and ends with his need to feel special. Why should Jeter go out of his way for a guy who isolates himself as much as Arod? Become part of the team, then we'll see how the others treat you.

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 05:00 PM
What would you trade Arod for? I'm just curious because i'm sure i'll get another off-the-wall suggestion from another fantasy gm..

Im in no position to say who to trade him for. That type of thing requires scouting, financial considerations, discussions with other GMs etc. However, I know in the case of Alex Rodriguez, teams would most definitely give up some talent for him. And it isn't going to be a two player deal. It'd be a multi-player deal, maybe even a multi team deal. And the Yanks wouldn't get any one player that matches Arods talent, but they could get a couple or a few players, who combined, contribute a great deal and improve the team.

By the way. You sound like a complete asshole with your condescending tone. So it'd benefit the way other posters view your posts if you drop it.

aeromac76
10-10-06, 05:00 PM
:lol:

I will believe AROD will be on the 2007 Yankees after the team breaks spring training.

Exactly, I think they will listen to offers and if something makes sense, they'll try to get it done..
I think he will be dealt, and I think he will approve it because it is likely the best thing for all parties concerned

No. 13
10-10-06, 05:01 PM
People say that A-rod is overated or that his trading value is low but they expect the other team to give them an Ace, doesn't make sense. If you get an ace in return then his trading value can't be that low.

No. 13
10-10-06, 05:03 PM
Arod needs to get off the private jet/different hotel/own personal trainer thing...his headcase problem starts and ends with his need to feel special. Why should Jeter go out of his way for a guy who isolates himself as much as Arod? Become part of the team, then we'll see how the others treat you.What does Jeter have to do with this thread:looking:

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 05:03 PM
I think this thread should be renamed "Alex performance thread, version 5.0".

Roberto Kelly
10-10-06, 05:04 PM
No surprise there. To say otherwise would throw any leverage out the window.

Personally, I think he stays for no other reason than, with Sheffield presumably gone, we would be vacant of right-handed power.

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 05:04 PM
Who would you want? Peavy and Zambrano would be two guys who if offered to me, I'd listen.

Those 2 sound nice.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:05 PM
Does anyone find it odd that Cashman "revealed" that other teams pursued Arod throughout the season? I dunno, normally, would a GM do this? Seems like he's trying to let it be known that there's a lot of interest in Arod, and that other teams will have some competition if they want to acquire him.

Maybe I'm reading into things too much, though.

I found that pretty telling too. Obviously we don't know the context, but its letting people know that there's a market out there for him, and we don't have to just "get rid of him" as some may think.

cmaff05
10-10-06, 05:05 PM
Im in no position to say who to trade him for. That type of thing requires scouting, financial considerations, discussions with other GMs etc. However, I know in the case of Alex Rodriguez, teams would most definitely give up some talent for him. And it isn't going to be a two player deal. It'd be a multi-player deal, maybe even a multi team deal. And the Yanks wouldn't get any one player that matches Arods talent, but they could get a couple or a few players, who combined, contribute a great deal and improve the team.

By the way. You sound like a complete asshole with your condescending tone. So it'd benefit the way other posters view your posts if you drop it.

Insults aside, there is really nobody I would trade for Arod other than Liriano, Peavy, Carpenter, Halladay and Santana. So to me the point is moot.

Jeff G
10-10-06, 05:05 PM
I hope they have a press conference where A-Rod, Torre, and Cashman, all wearing tuxedos, announce he's the new captain of the Yankees.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:05 PM
I think this thread should be renamed "Alex performance thread, version 5.0".

I think we have too many Alex threads :)

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 05:05 PM
Those 2 sound nice.

Unfortunately....I dont think there is any chance of getting either.

CoyoteYankee
10-10-06, 05:06 PM
I hope that this is true.

YankeePride1967
10-10-06, 05:07 PM
I think we have too many Alex threads :)

Well there are some A-Rod threads that aren't even titled for him "Joe Torre to be fired" being one. Never can be too many A-Rod threads!

nycgirl
10-10-06, 05:08 PM
General manager Brian Cashman said the team had no intention of trading Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5275), who failed to drive in a run in the playoffs for the second straight year

Really? Wow. I didn't realize that.

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 05:08 PM
Unfortunately....I dont think there is any chance of getting either.

I think there is. Not a great chance but 12 teams will be interested. Its worth starting a bidding war to see what the best offer would be, either way you dont have to trade him unless you get an offer you are satisfied with.

No. 13
10-10-06, 05:09 PM
I think we have too many Alex threads :)I think we have too little Alex threads...people can never get tired of talking about him.

Tifoso
10-10-06, 05:10 PM
For now ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2620449

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=190 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">GM</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">HR</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">RBI</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">R</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">OBP</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">AVG</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">154</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">35</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">121</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">113</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.392</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.290</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Says it all, really.

Now we focus on SP

Yanks Lifer
10-10-06, 05:11 PM
Amen!!!

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 05:11 PM
I think there is. Not a great chance but 12 teams will be interested. Its worth starting a bidding war to see what the best offer would be, either way you dont have to trade him unless you get an offer you are satisfied with.

Prob a better chance of Peavy. Just cuz I dont see anyway ARod approves a trade to the Cubs. At least you could try to sell ARod on SD (nice weather, laid back atmosphere, team that contends every year in a weak division etc)

ICEBERG18
10-10-06, 05:12 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=190 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">GM</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">HR</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">RBI</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">R</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">OBP</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">AVG</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">154</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">35</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">121</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">113</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.392</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.290</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Says it all, really.

Now we focus on SP
Cashman said this offseaosn will be pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Jeter Kid
10-10-06, 05:13 PM
Woo Hoo!!!

Danny T's Biceps
10-10-06, 05:13 PM
No surprise there. To say otherwise would throw any leverage out the window.

Personally, I think he stays for no other reason than, with Sheffield presumably gone, we would be vacant of right-handed power.

Bobby Abreu ain't exactly been chopped liver for us. In fact I would say he outperformed the hell out of A-Rod for us (edit: in his limited time, naturally).

In baseball it's silly to get too attached to one offensive player, especially when that player is one who tends to be streaky and strikeout prone in the best of times. Pitchers are more important to teams' success. That's it.

I would take a solid, young number 2 guy plus a good position player for A-Rod.

Soriambi
10-10-06, 05:14 PM
Cashman said this offseaosn will be pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Makes sense to me. It's not like they need any help offensively. Chances are they'll be going into next season with something like:

C: Posada
1B: Giambi
2B: Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: A-rod
LF: Melky
CF: Damon
RF. Abreu
DH: Matsui

or something very similar. There isn't much work to be done there at all. I would be pleased with that.

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 05:18 PM
Insults aside, there is really nobody I would trade for Arod other than Liriano, Peavy, Carpenter, Halladay and Santana. So to me the point is moot.

You're ignoring my point. Arod, if he were traded, would probably not be traded for just one player anyways. He'd be traded for an assortment of talent, be it two ML ready guys, an ML star and some prospects, a bunch of prospects, or any possible combination. To trade him for one player in any situation would be stupid because if that one guy gets hurt, or if he turns out to have Arod syndrome and cracks under NY pressure, the trade is a bust.

TMS
10-10-06, 05:19 PM
Makes sense to me. It's not like they need any help offensively. Chances are they'll be going into next season with something like:

C: Posada
1B: Giambi
2B: Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: A-rod
LF: Melky
CF: Damon
RF. Abreu
DH: Matsui

or something very similar. There isn't much work to be done there at all. I would be pleased with that.

apparently there IS something that needs to be done because that same lineup couldn't make it out of the 1st round this season... that lineup may look awesome on paper, but we all saw that what looks good on paper doesn't necessarily translate to wins in the postseason... we've seen that for the past 6 years now.

something is missing from this team, & personally i think they found some of it earlier in the year when Matsui & Sheff were out of the lineup... there was a chemistry there & a spirit that had been lacking from this franchise for a while... that chemistry & spirit seemed to disappear when Matsui & Sheff returned to the lineup... i'm not blaming those 2 cuz i like both as players, but i think the mix of youth in the lineup energized the rest of the veterans... once Matsui & Sheff returned, the rest of the lineup returned to that same old, passionless & business like approach that we've seen for the past several years.

yanksrule69
10-10-06, 05:19 PM
A-Rod has a no trade clause and has said he wants to stay a Yankee and plans on doing so until one of his bosses tell him they want him gone in a bad way. I believe him. And his bosses aren't going to tell him they want him gone because of his very obvious delicate psyche.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "no-trade clause".

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 05:20 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=190 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">GM</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">HR</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">RBI</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">R</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">OBP</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">AVG</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">154</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">35</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">121</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">113</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.392</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.290</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Says it all, really.

Now we focus on SP

Those types of numbers could get you some good pitching in return. The fact that the focus is on obtaining pitching doesn't mean its off dealing Arod. The two go hand in hand. Arod for pitching. The numbers are not the bottom line with Arod and we all know that. This offense showed that numbers don't really add up to much if the team isn't all on the same page.

brosiusbuddy
10-10-06, 05:21 PM
A-Rod has a no trade clause and has said he wants to stay a Yankee and plans on doing so until one of his bosses tell him they want him gone in a bad way. I believe him. And his bosses aren't going to tell him they want him gone because of his very obvious delicate psyche.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "no-trade clause".

If the only thing stopping a deal is Arod waiving his NTC than Cashman might tell him he wants him gone in a bad way.

Soriambi
10-10-06, 05:21 PM
apparently there IS something that needs to be done because that same lineup couldn't make it out of the 1st round this season... that lineup may look awesome on paper, but we all saw that what looks good on paper doesn't necessarily translate to wins in the postseason... we've seen that for the past 6 years now.



I don't think that the fact that the offense struggled in a few games means that something is wrong with it. If we had that lineup in the regular season for 162 games we would have scored lots of runs in many games and we would have been shut down or we would have scored an unimpressive number of runs in many games. That's just the way baseball works. Just because a team is shut down in 2-3 straight games doesn't mean that there is something extremely wrong with the offense.

Tifoso
10-10-06, 05:22 PM
Makes sense to me. It's not like they need any help offensively. Chances are they'll be going into next season with something like:

C: Posada
1B: Giambi
2B: Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: A-rod
LF: Melky
CF: Damon
RF. Abreu
DH: Matsui

or something very similar. There isn't much work to be done there at all. I would be pleased with that.

Without question. Awesome lineup. We need to replace Unit, at the very least (and probably Moose, as much as I like him)

So we are either looking at a rotation to start with of

Wang, Pavano*

or

Wang, Moose, Pavano*


*=only because we are stuck with him.

Randy has to go.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:22 PM
&$%# yeah!!

I wish i could say I told you so to a million people on this forum :)

This by no means he's not going to be traded, Cash would never say that he's shopping Arod, for one it lowers his value, and two, if he didn't find a deal he likes then its an even worse situation if thats possible...I hope for your sake, that your heart doesn't get broken...

ChrisV82
10-10-06, 05:22 PM
<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="190"><tbody><tr align="right"><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">GM</td><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">HR</td><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">RBI</td><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">R</td><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">OBP</td><td style="background: rgb(188, 188, 180) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;" width="17%">AVG</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">154</td><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">35</td><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">121</td><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">113</td><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">.392</td><td style="background: rgb(153, 153, 153) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;">.290</td></tr></tbody></table>

Says it all, really.

Now we focus on SP

An extra P.S. -

2006 OPS - .914, 23rd in the MLB
2005* OPS - 1.031, 3rd in baseball and nearly identical to Pujols
2004 OPS - .888, 34th in MLB

Keep in mind that in his second year here, he had a monster season. That was AFTER the 2004 ALCS disaster. So where was the pressure then? It was still there. He simply had a bad season this year, and if we're going to trade away a guy who had an EqA of .315 this year and a WARP3 of 6.9 (12.5 in 2005) because he didn't do well over the course of FOUR GAMES, then this team will be as disasterous as it was in 1990, because no one in the organization has a damn clue.

*A.L. M.V.P.

STNYY
10-10-06, 05:22 PM
"We will listen to any offers that will help us improve our team, including Mr. Rodriguez"

Why? Not only would that be dumb, but it's not what Cash has done in the past, including Bubba last year.

Besides we'd get more for ARod in a mid season deal. His trade value is at an all-time low right now - relatively speaking, of course.

You don't act from desperation. Therefore anything other than full support for ARod from Cashman would be idiotic. If he said what you stated above, he should be fired on the spot.

No. 13
10-10-06, 05:23 PM
A-Rod has a no trade clause and has said he wants to stay a Yankee and plans on doing so until one of his bosses tell him they want him gone in a bad way. I believe him. And his bosses aren't going to tell him they want him gone because of his very obvious delicate psyche.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "no-trade clause". I believe him too but why would he stay here with these ingrates hounding him? I"m willing to bet that if A-rod went to another team he"d return to being A-rod. Now whether or not he does well with another team b/c there's less pressure, would be another 100 page A-rod thread.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:23 PM
Cashman said this offseaosn will be pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching.

I hope he keeps his word because we'll fall again just like we did, if he doesn't...Our only chip is Arod, and he's worth a young, firearm.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:24 PM
I think we have too little Alex threads...people can never get tired of talking about him.

Its always about Alex... :)

CoyoteYankee
10-10-06, 05:25 PM
Its always about Alex... :)

The Game Threads barely move at the lightning speed that the A-Rod threads move at.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:25 PM
A-Rod has a no trade clause and has said he wants to stay a Yankee and plans on doing so until one of his bosses tell him they want him gone in a bad way. I believe him. And his bosses aren't going to tell him they want him gone because of his very obvious delicate psyche.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "no-trade clause".

Well he had one when he came here too. And he apparently wanted to stay a Ranger too, since he was just named Captain.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:26 PM
The Game Threads barely move at the lightning speed that the A-Rod threads move at.

We should have brought up Alex in the game thread where it was like an anemic 19 pages :P

BrooklynBotz
10-10-06, 05:26 PM
NO ONE is untouchable. Ever.

Some players are shopped, other it would take a "knock your socks off" offer to move. But no one is ever untouchable.
What about Jeter? I can't see us trading him anytime soon.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:26 PM
Makes sense to me. It's not like they need any help offensively. Chances are they'll be going into next season with something like:

C: Posada
1B: Giambi
2B: Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: A-rod
LF: Melky
CF: Damon
RF. Abreu
DH: Matsui

or something very similar. There isn't much work to be done there at all. I would be pleased with that.

Its not that simple. Giambi is done at 1B and Matsui is going to play left. I don't care about our lineup, its not going to get us anywhere in the postseason. The only players worth keeping in that lineup, that will hold up offensively and defensively if the others are traded for pitching or to lower the payroll to acquire pitching is:

Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Cano
Posada
Melky

With other batters that are contact hitters, we can win the world series with good pitching.

Tifoso
10-10-06, 05:27 PM
An extra P.S. -

2006 OPS - .914, 23rd in the MLB
2005* OPS - 1.031, 3rd in baseball and nearly identical to Pujols
2004 OPS - .888, 34th in MLB

Keep in mind that in his second year here, he had a monster season. That was AFTER the 2004 ALCS disaster. So where was the pressure then? It was still there. He simply had a bad season this year, and if we're going to trade away a guy who had an EqA of .315 this year and a WARP3 of 6.9 (12.5 in 2005) because he didn't do well over the course of FOUR GAMES, then this team will be as disasterous as it was in 1990, because no one in the organization has a damn clue.

*A.L. M.V.P.


Just to be clear:)

I agree with you. You keep ARod, without question, unless you find a team willing to trade you Santana and Santana Jr.

This offense was probably amongst the top handful of offenses in the history of baseball. Our SP is just awful, though. (paging Unit, Mr. Big Unit)

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 05:27 PM
Well he had one when he came here too. And he apparently wanted to stay a Ranger too, since he was just named Captain.

Everyone knows he wanted out. He tried to give up money to get to Boston.

ICEBERG18
10-10-06, 05:27 PM
What about Jeter? I can't see us trading him anytime soon.

Even if the Yankees wanted to no one would take that contract.

TalkYank
10-10-06, 05:29 PM
We knew that Cashman would say that A-Rod would stay. He said this last week too I think...

No. 13
10-10-06, 05:29 PM
Its always about Alex... :)That's part of the Yankees problem;)

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:29 PM
Everyone knows he wanted out. He tried to give up money to get to Boston.

Agreed. But he has given up his no-trade clause once.

I am also concerned that since this Torre issue was wrapped up so quickly, it will also allow the media focus to return to "AROD public enemy #1 in NYC." The press looks pretty dumb with this whole Joe thing and they might just try to go for the easy target = Alex.

panicfan
10-10-06, 05:30 PM
Yep.

All they need in return is a 3b who makes less than 24 errors a season, and a top pitching prospect.


That is not the point. Arod can still bring great return and also by dealing him, you get rid of all his baggage that is nothing but negativity in the clubhouse. As crazy as it may sound, and I know I'll get bashed, his numbers aren't as valuable to the team as they appear on a stat sheet because every mistake he makes is made into a glaring one and all it does is bring negative BS to the team.

ICEBERG18
10-10-06, 05:30 PM
Agreed. But he has given up his no-trade clause once.


Yeah, to leave Texas.

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 05:31 PM
Yep.

All they need in return is a 3b who makes less than 24 errors a season, and a top pitching prospect.

Thank goodness you arent the GM

Nick.K
10-10-06, 05:32 PM
If DJ, Torre and A-Rod can resolve there problems if there is a problem I dont think A-Rod will go but if they dont resolve it then he is off.

Off topic but could we get a good young pitcher for Giambi he hasn’t had the greatest year either and he's getting old.

27IsNext
10-10-06, 05:32 PM
And that's that.

To be honest, I just don't care anymore. He's an automatic to put up good stats either way. Just lose some weight and work on defensive mechanics.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:33 PM
Off topic but could we get a good young pitcher for Giambi he hasn’t had the greatest year either and he's getting old.

Nope, no one in their right mind would give up a young pitcher for Giambi and his contract.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 05:33 PM
Yeah, to leave Texas.

Where he wasn't treated anywhere near as bad as he has been here. I think the thing that we tend to forget about all these guys is that they are human. As much as I think AROD is an unnecessary distraction for this team, I still feel for the guy for all the crap he has been put through (some brought on by himself and some not). No one, except maybe a child molester, deserves to be raked through the coal like he has been.

Rocketman
10-10-06, 05:33 PM
Keeping ARod is the right move. You never trade away one of the top 10-15 players in history unless it's for younger, Hall-of-Fame-to-be talent.

Nick.K
10-10-06, 05:34 PM
Nope, no one in their right mind would give up a young pitcher for Giambi and his contract.

Whats money is he on

panicfan
10-10-06, 05:35 PM
Thank you.

I mean if any of you guys watched games this year you know A-Rod was not the saviour of this team.

Far from it!


A-Rod is overrated. He's not the position player equivalent of Cy Young, or even Johan Santana.

He's a the best trading chip we have. We'd be FOOLS to not consider it. We have plenty of players who put up big numbers offensively. Did Seattle suffer from his absence? Did Texas stop scoring runs?

Pitching. We need pitching. It's why we won in the 90s with inferior offensive teams. Period.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:35 PM
Good I'm glad, can't wait for next postseason so he can continue his 0 RBI streak in the playoffs...

Sorry I'm just so fed up, mentally soft players don't make it here, we need pitching and he's our only way to getting it.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:36 PM
Keeping ARod is the right move. You never trade away one of the top 10-15 players in history unless it's for younger, Hall-of-Fame-to-be talent.

...that can't register an RBI in 2 straight divisional series

panicfan
10-10-06, 05:37 PM
Texas did. Seattle let him walk.

He is not helping the this team in the grand scheme of things.


Keeping ARod is the right move. You never trade away one of the top 10-15 players in history unless it's for younger, Hall-of-Fame-to-be talent.

Tifoso
10-10-06, 05:37 PM
Good I'm glad, can't wait for next postseason so he can continue his 0 RBI streak in the playoffs...

Sorry I'm just so fed up, mentally soft players don't make it here, we need pitching and he's our only way to getting it.

Agree, then disagree, with the underlined part. :)

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:37 PM
Whats money is he on

I don't he's making somewhere around 19 million p/year until 2008 I think?

ryanm1058123
10-10-06, 05:37 PM
...that can't register an RBI in 2 straight divisional series


... like the rest of the team showed up.. hehehehehehe

mrbawm
10-10-06, 05:37 PM
Bubba Crosby was our starting centerfielder this season.

Driveblind
10-10-06, 05:38 PM
... like the rest of the team showed up.. hehehehehehe

who had the worst numbers in either (or both) series'?

ryanm1058123
10-10-06, 05:39 PM
who had the worst numbers in either (or both) series'?

lets not argue semantics

STNYY
10-10-06, 05:39 PM
You never trade away one of the top 10-15 players in history unless it's for younger, Hall-of-Fame-to-be talent.

If the talent is younger, how the heck are you supposed to know it's HOF-to-be?

Jeter and ARod are the exception - the vast majority of players don't show up in the ML looking like HOF material.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:40 PM
Agree, then disagree, with the underlined part. :)

:D ha, alright, what is your opinion on how we can acquire pitching good enough to win a world series...We need a #2 and 3 starter as RJ and Mussina if they come back are at best a #4 starter, due to injury risk and pitch count restrictions, and Pavano is no given to perform at all. I'm not a fan of Zito at all.

That leaves me with Wang...and banking our whole season next year on Hughes and Clippard.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:41 PM
... like the rest of the team showed up.. hehehehehehe

The rest of the team won't get you front line pitchers for what their contracts translate too, the rest of the team didn't have league leading errors at their position, the rest of the team is nowhere near as fragile mentally...

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 05:42 PM
... like the rest of the team showed up.. hehehehehehe

The part that angers me is that I believe A-rod can handle pressure, just not the insane amount that is being put on him right not, with this whole him vs. Jeter thing. Honestly I wouldnt be able to handle that either. A-rod before becoming a Yankee and in his first year of playoff play as a Yankee was a great postseason performer. The insane amount of New York pressure has gotten to him. So we have the eliminate that pressure. Either trade him or Jeter, or find another way. If it was between A-rod or Jeter, I pick A-rod every single time, but I know that wont happen.

Driveblind
10-10-06, 05:43 PM
lets not argue semantics

hahahahaha are you kidding ryan? i know you're fighting tooth and nail as usual for some reason why a-rod is the greatest player in history but the facts remain. he has been the LVP for the yankees the past two postseasons

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:43 PM
The part that angers me is that I believe A-rod can handle pressure, just not the insane amount that is being put on him right not, with this whole him vs. Jeter thing. Honestly I wouldnt be able to handle that either. A-rod before becoming a Yankee and in his first year of playoff play as a Yankee was a great postseason performer. The insane amount of New York pressure has gotten to him. So we have the eliminate that pressure. Either trade him or Jeter, or find another way. If it was between A-rod or Jeter, I pick A-rod every single time, but I know that wont happen.

I wouldn't trade the man that has already won you 4 world series and is a proven postseason player. I do agree with you that Arod can handle pressure, just not NY pressure, thats why he needs to go, and his personality just doesn't work here either.

STNYY
10-10-06, 05:44 PM
... like the rest of the team showed up.. hehehehehehe

Jeter and Posada did. hehehehehehe...

Oh nevermind. No matter what you say about ARod, someone will always point to other players. As if those players had any trade value, or are under contract for as many years as ARod, or aren't set to walk this year anyway, or were as big distractions/lightening rods.

ryanm1058123
10-10-06, 05:44 PM
I wouldn't trade the man that has already won you 4 world series and is a proven postseason player. I do agree with you that Arod can handle pressure, just not NY pressure, thats why he needs to go, and his personality just doesn't work here either.

where is luis sojo when you need him

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:45 PM
lets not argue semantics

:-poke-: Are you being sarcastic?

cmaff05
10-10-06, 05:45 PM
arod is better than jeter. he's better than giambi. he's better than any hitter on this team. if anybody deserves to be coddled, it's him. i'm not saying that he should be coddled, but if anybody deserves to be coddles, it's arod.

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 05:47 PM
Jeter and Posada did. hehehehehehe...

Oh nevermind. No matter what you say about ARod, someone will always point to other players. As if those players had any trade value, or are under contract for as many years as ARod, or aren't set to walk this year anyway, or were as big distractions/lightening rods.

Yeah, A-Rod was a HUUUGE distraction. They easily would have won the division if he weren't on the team.

fredgmuggs
10-10-06, 05:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many ARod threads does this one make? He's certainly a lightening rod... and that's one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind seeing him go.

Danny T's Biceps
10-10-06, 05:48 PM
arod is better than jeter

:lol:

C'mon, seriously. Firstly you shouldn't compare the two. Secondly, that's not the point. A-Rod's someone you can actually trade. You can't trade Jeter or Giambi. So it's MOOOT!!!

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 05:48 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many ARod threads does this one make? He's certainly a lightening rod... and that's one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind seeing him go.

It's A-Rod's fault that some people who post to this forum are under the impression that their take on A-Rod deserves its own thread is his fault too?

Johnny O
10-10-06, 05:49 PM
Its not that simple. Giambi is done at 1B and Matsui is going to play left. I don't care about our lineup, its not going to get us anywhere in the postseason. The only players worth keeping in that lineup, that will hold up offensively and defensively if the others are traded for pitching or to lower the payroll to acquire pitching is:

Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Cano
Posada
Melky

With other batters that are contact hitters, we can win the world series with good pitching.

Taking 3 of the best 4 hitters out of the lineup somehow makes the team better?? With good pitching, the position players as constituted would also win the world series.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:49 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many ARod threads does this one make? He's certainly a lightening rod... and that's one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind seeing him go.

It's one of many on the list as the reason why.

To acquire pitching
Distraction
Can't handle pressure
-leads to bad defense
-Clutch hitting
Team chemistry

JeterRodriguezSheff
10-10-06, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't trade the man that has already won you 4 world series and is a proven postseason player. I do agree with you that Arod can handle pressure, just not NY pressure, thats why he needs to go, and his personality just doesn't work here either.

Its not NY pressure either, he can handle that and it showed in 05 during the regular season and in the 04 ALDS in the postseason. He cant handle this him vs. Jeter and the rest of the team MEDIA BS thing...

cmaff05
10-10-06, 05:50 PM
:lol:

C'mon, seriously. Firstly you shouldn't compare the two. Secondly, that's not the point. A-Rod's someone you can actually trade. You can't trade Jeter or Giambi. So it's MOOOT!!!

I can compare the two. I think Arod is the better of the two. Of course you can't trade Jeter. But you shouldn't trade Arod either.

Driveblind
10-10-06, 05:50 PM
Is it A-Rod's fault that he went 3/29 with 1 double and 0 RBI in the last two division series'?

Or can we blame on us mean fans?

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:51 PM
Taking 3 of the best 4 hitters out of the lineup somehow makes the team better?? With good pitching, the position players as constituted would also win the world series.

Obviously, but how are they going to acquire good pitching without trading anyone?????????????? Seriously think about this. 3 of the 4 best hitters? I constitute best hitters as contact hitters who know how to drive runners on without needing the homerun...Jeter, Abreu, Cano are the 3 best hitters of the 2006 yankee lineup.

cmaff05
10-10-06, 05:52 PM
Is it A-Rod's fault that he went 3/29 with 1 double and 0 RBI in the last two division series'?

Or can we blame on us mean fans?

No player in the history of postseason baseball has every went through a struggle like that. EVER. Arod is the first. He's the worst player ever.

ryanm1058123
10-10-06, 05:52 PM
Is it A-Rod's fault that he went 3/29 with 1 double and 0 RBI in the last two division series'?

Or can we blame on us mean fans?

name me one player who has the venom of the fans that A-Rod gets and then you will have an argument

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 05:52 PM
Is it A-Rod's fault that he went 3/29 with 1 double and 0 RBI in the last two division series'?

Or can we blame on us mean fans?

Awww, it's always cute watching someone play with their straw man.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:53 PM
Is it A-Rod's fault that he went 3/29 with 1 double and 0 RBI in the last two division series'?

Or can we blame on us mean fans?

Were we mean in Anaheim and Detroit? He doesn't get it done when we are away from yankee stadium. One of his worst stretches was the away stand after the Massacre II

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:54 PM
Its not NY pressure either, he can handle that and it showed in 05 during the regular season and in the 04 ALDS in the postseason. He cant handle this him vs. Jeter and the rest of the team MEDIA BS thing...

Okay, thats fine, I can agree to that...but that BS that you speak of is NEVER going to go away, and it sucks, but its reality.

fredgmuggs
10-10-06, 05:54 PM
It's A-Rod's fault that some people who post to this forum are under the impression that their take on A-Rod deserves its own thread is his fault too? Is it his fault? I'm not smart enough to know the answer to that.... but there is no disputing that he has become a major distraction (I was just using the multiple ARod threads to point that out.... and I think you knew that). Anyway, as a fan of the Yankees, I could live without all the drama he brings, whether it's his fault or not.

mrbawm
10-10-06, 05:54 PM
I can't believe you guys believe anything Cashman or Yankee PR says to me the media.

surge511
10-10-06, 05:55 PM
arod is better than jeter. he's better than giambi. he's better than any hitter on this team. if anybody deserves to be coddled, it's him. i'm not saying that he should be coddled, but if anybody deserves to be coddles, it's arod.

I think at this point, 'better' must be defined. Yes, stats wise, Arod is the best player in baseball. But there is no getting around it - he has not performed when it has mattered most. He is the softest 35-120 you will ever find. The guy can hit all he wants when the score is 8-1 in the regular season, but that does nothing in the playoffs. He certainly helped get us there, but if the goal is winning world series, I'm sorry, but he is just not our guy.

surge511
10-10-06, 05:56 PM
I can't believe you guys believe anything Cashman or Yankee PR says to me the media.

Yea, really. Like because Cashman says to the media that he's going to keep his 3rd baseman on October 10, before the World Series is over, that solves it, Arod is staying...:lol:

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 05:57 PM
Is it his fault? I'm not smart enough to know the answer to that.... but there is no disputing that he has become a major distraction (I was just using the multiple ARod threads to point that out.... and I think you knew that). Anyway, as a fan of the Yankees, I could live without all the drama he brings, whether it's fault or not.

What distraction are you talking about? The team won the division handily. That fans on *this* forum can't go five minutes without creating a new thread to hate/love/obsess/trade/beg him to stay the guy has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

Furthermore, all the folks who buy into this "distraction" bullsh*t? Don't you EVER dare complain about the NY sports media again. EVER. You bought into this crap lock, stock, and barrel.

mrbawm
10-10-06, 05:57 PM
Yea, really. Like because Cashman says to the media that he's going to keep his 3rd baseman on October 10, before the World Series is over, that solves it, Arod is staying...:lol:

I really wish we would have signed Johnny Damon this year, Bubba Crosby's 600 OPS in CF all season killed us.

ryanm1058123
10-10-06, 05:57 PM
I think at this point, 'better' must be defined. Yes, stats wise, Arod is the best player in baseball. But there is no getting around it - he has not performed when it has mattered most. He is the softest 35-120 you will ever find. The guy can hit all he wants when the score is 8-1 in the regular season, but that does nothing in the playoffs. He certainly helped get us there, but if the goal is winning world series, I'm sorry, but he is just not our guy.

yes, all of a-rod hits come in 8-1 games

:roflmao:

flymick24
10-10-06, 05:58 PM
this doesn't mean anything. if the right offer comes along, a-rod will be packing his bags.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:58 PM
I guess my opinion can be summed up in one statement...

My belief is we need pitching, and the only type of pitching we can get that we need, is by trading Arod. I think by removing Arod and Sheff, the offense is still good enough to win the WS, and that pitcher we acquire from Arod will be good enough to carry us now, and years to come.

destiNY
10-10-06, 05:59 PM
I can't believe you guys believe anything Cashman or Yankee PR says to me the media.

I don't, but I don't think we are arguing about that...we are arguing whether Arod should be traded, not really whether he will be.

STNYY
10-10-06, 06:01 PM
Yeah, A-Rod was a HUUUGE distraction. They easily would have won the division if he weren't on the team.

Did I say that? The same old same old from you, attack people for what they didn't say instead of responding to what they did.

ARod is tradeable. Giambi sucked - but he's not tradeable. Cano sucked - but why give up on a 23 year old, and you wouldn't get anything for him. Sheff sucked - but he's in his walk year, so you can't trade him. RJ - not tradeable and now hurt. Moose - not tradeable and in his walk year. Granted, Matsui - sucked in the PS, tradeable. Abrue - hit in the first game, then went cold, not very tradeable with his contract.

ARod is tradeable and his defense was atrocious this year and he slugged 50 pointes below his career average and he had career highs in SO and GIDP and he's become a major media lightening rod. If only one of these things were true...but all of them are. The Yanks would be crazy not to listen to offers.

He's not going anywhere in the offseason, nor should he. But if he comes back next year and it continues, then by all mean Cash, make a deal.

And actually, to respond to what you actually wrote, the Yanks could have won the division without ARod. Remove ARod but keep either Mats or Sheff in the lineup and where's the difference? Removing ANY (yes, 'MVP' Jeter too) one guy from the lineup would not have effected our division run, not with the RS so poorly constructed.

ucfjon
10-10-06, 06:02 PM
I guess my opinion can be summed up in one statement...

My belief is we need pitching, and the only type of pitching we can get that we need, is by trading Arod. I think by removing Arod and Sheff, the offense is still good enough to win the WS, and that pitcher we acquire from Arod will be good enough to carry us now, and years to come.

I think this sums it up quite well. Although, I would feel better about the lineup with another righty in there.

Nick.K
10-10-06, 06:04 PM
I'm new here so can someone explain why Giambi cannot be traded

fredgmuggs
10-10-06, 06:06 PM
What distraction are you talking about? The team won the division handily. That fans on *this* forum can't go five minutes without creating a new thread to hate/love/obsess/trade/beg him to stay the guy has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

Furthermore, all the folks who buy into this "distraction" bullsh*t? Don't you EVER dare complain about the NY sports media again. EVER. You bought into this crap lock, stock, and barrel.

OK, I'll play.... here's a distraction for you. Torre batting him eighth and basically saying I have had enough of ARod and it's now him or me (anyway, that's my assessment of what Torre was doing). Looks like Torre is staying. So, do you think they both can still live together happily ever after now?

By the way, I don't ever recall complaining about the the New York media. Heck, I don't even complain about ESPN, FOX, Joe Morgan, or Tim McCarver.:D

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:06 PM
I think this sums it up quite well. Although, I would feel better about the lineup with another righty in there.

Agreed, ideally the new 1B and if Arod is traded, the 3B would be a righty.

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 06:06 PM
Did I say that? The same old same old from you, attack people for what they didn't say instead of responding to what they did.

ARod is tradeable. Giambi sucked - but he's not tradeable. Cano sucked - but why give up on a 23 year old, and you wouldn't get anything for him. Sheff sucked - but he's in his walk year, so you can't trade him. RJ - not tradeable and now hurt. Moose - not tradeable and in his walk year. Granted, Matsui - sucked in the PS, tradeable. Abrue - hit in the first game, then went cold, not very tradeable with his contract.

ARod is tradeable and his defense was atrocious this year and he slugged 50 pointes below his career average and he had career highs in SO and GIDP and he's become a major media lightening rod. If only one of these things were true...but all of them are. The Yanks would be crazy not to listen to offers.

He's not going anywhere in the offseason, nor should he. But if he comes back next year and it continues, then by all mean Cash, make a deal.

And actually, to respond to what you actually wrote, the Yanks could have won the division without ARod. Remove ARod but keep either Mats or Sheff in the lineup and where's the difference? Removing ANY (yes, 'MVP' Jeter too) one guy from the lineup would not have effected our division run, not with the RS so poorly constructed.

Good, now that you're done regurgitating, how was I attacking what you "didn't" say? You keep offering up this "distraction" nonsense when it clearly hasn't had one iota of impact on the team. See how that works? If you're going to suggest something is detrimental to the team, i.e. this huge "distraction" A-Rod is causing, you have to show how it's been detrimental. My bringing up the division was in fact on point to your comment.

Maybe your problem isn't that I'm not addressing what you didn't say but that you're not understanding your own posts?

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:07 PM
I'm new here so can someone explain why Giambi cannot be traded

In theory he cannot, his contract is 19mill p/year until 2008/2009, he is always injured and cannot play a position, which = Not tradeable (in theory)

Johnny O
10-10-06, 06:07 PM
Obviously, but how are they going to acquire good pitching without trading anyone?????????????? Seriously think about this. 3 of the 4 best hitters? I constitute best hitters as contact hitters who know how to drive runners on without needing the homerun...Jeter, Abreu, Cano are the 3 best hitters of the 2006 yankee lineup.

That's your very narrow definition of a good hitter. ARod, Giambi both have better career (and 2006) OPS than those four. Matsui is behind Abreu. The optimal offense is a high OBP, high slugging offense.

FYI, Abreu Ked 138 times in 2006 and Jeter 102; Alex 139 and Jason 106. You're confusing contact with lack of HR power.

BronxByTheBay
10-10-06, 06:08 PM
OK, I'll play.... here's a distraction for you. Torre batting him eighth and basically saying I have had enough of ARod and it's now him or me (anyway, that's my assessment of what Torre was doing). Looks like Torre is staying. So, do you think they both can still live together happily ever after now?

And? What distraction was caused by that? The team played the game, didn't hit, didn't pitch - so what? Where was the "distraction"?

I think Torre will have to live happily ever after if the organization determines to keep A-Rod. Rodriguez is far more important to the New York Yankees than Joe Torre will ever be.

panicfan
10-10-06, 06:08 PM
Yeah, but when they get shutdown in the postseason year after year that tells you something.


I don't think that the fact that the offense struggled in a few games means that something is wrong with it. If we had that lineup in the regular season for 162 games we would have scored lots of runs in many games and we would have been shut down or we would have scored an unimpressive number of runs in many games. That's just the way baseball works. Just because a team is shut down in 2-3 straight games doesn't mean that there is something extremely wrong with the offense.

mr G
10-10-06, 06:08 PM
I'm new here so can someone explain why Giambi cannot be traded

big contract, and essentially a DH, and an injury prone guy , plus i believe the yanks like him in that DH role !!!

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:10 PM
That's your very narrow definition of a good hitter. ARod, Giambi both have better career (and 2006) OPS than those four. Matsui is behind Abreu. The optimal offense is a high OBP, high slugging offense.

FYI, Abreu Ked 138 times in 2006 and Jeter 102; Alex 139 and Jason 106. You're confusing contact with lack of HR power.

Giambi sat out many games and Abreu's role was different on Philly, I don't think he will K that much next year, and I tend to believe most would agree, however good points brought up, but I still agree with my point that Cano, Abreu, and Jeter are the most important hitters to this team as they represent the type of hitting that is successful against good pitching, i.e. in the playoffs.

metalboy15
10-10-06, 06:10 PM
this doesn't mean anything. if the right offer comes along, a-rod will be packing his bags.
thatīs the thing!, A-Rod is worth so much that the "right" offer might never come...

panicfan
10-10-06, 06:10 PM
Torre batting him 8th was his way of trying to hide A-Rod, and prevent him from killing rallies.

OK, I'll play.... here's a distraction for you. Torre batting him eighth and basically saying I have had enough of ARod and it's now him or me (anyway, that's my assessment of what Torre was doing). Looks like Torre is staying. So, do you think they both can still live together happily ever after now?

By the way, I don't ever recall complaining about the the New York media. Heck, I don't even complain about ESPN, FOX, Joe Morgan, or Tim McCarver.:D

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:11 PM
I don't, but I don't think we are arguing about that...we are arguing whether Arod should be traded, not really whether he will be.

There was somewhat of an "I told you so" tone from some posters. All I'm saying is that any announcement from the front office means absolutely nothing.

mjdlight
10-10-06, 06:12 PM
The title of this thread is extremely misleading and should be changed.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 06:12 PM
This isn't surprising, this is the biggest piece of non-news, what else is he going to say? He isn't going to be like we are going to do whatever is best for the team, because the media would take that and run with it. He is going to play this as cool as possible and get an absolute monster offer for A-Rod. I guarantee Torre doesn't want him here anymore either...

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:15 PM
Yeah, but when they get shutdown in the postseason year after year that tells you something.

We've only played like we were going to lose for 4 straight postseasons now.

Flat in the 2003 WS.

We let the momentum change in the 2004 ALCS, got creamed, made history. Biggest choke in sports history.

We laid down to the Angels in 2005.

We get embarassed again in 2006. Forget about "great Tiger's pitching" we couldn't get anything going. Meanwhile, Torre's making last minute lineup changes that look lik something you do in May not in October. Sheff's comments were 100% correct, regardless of what you think of the man.

BillBuckner
10-10-06, 06:16 PM
Didn't Texas say the same thing only a few weeks before they gave him to us?

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:16 PM
thatīs the thing!, A-Rod is worth so much that the "right" offer might never come...

a-rod's worth is whatever the yankee FO and cashman define it to be. we may all still think he's the best player in the league and his value to this team is still very high, but after all the NY media backlash and unnecessary drama he has put this team through, there is a lot of thinking to be done on cashman's part. he'll still be getting offers, and based on what the yankees perceive to be equal value, a-rod could stay but he could just as easily be dealt (more easily than we all probably think.) his value, while still very good at the price the yankees are paying, is nonetheless at an all-time low right now.

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:17 PM
Didn't Texas say the same thing only a few weeks before they gave him to us?
they also made him the team captain.

Toaderly
10-10-06, 06:18 PM
Now we focus on SP

Amen. This should be Cashman's main focus during the off-season. Perhaps, his only focus. We need some fresh, young bulls in our pen.

fredgmuggs
10-10-06, 06:18 PM
And? What distraction was caused by that? The team played the game, didn't hit, didn't pitch - so what? Where was the "distraction"?

I think Torre will have to live happily ever after if the organization determines to keep A-Rod. Rodriguez is far more important to the New York Yankees than Joe Torre will ever be.

If ARod stays (and I believe that's the most likely scenario) it's going to be a frosty clubhouse..... and I believe that will be a major distraction. Will they co-exist? Sure they will, but I don't think it's going to make for a harmonious outcome (ARod/Buck Showalter, part II). But that's just my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree with it. In any event, we will see what happens and I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:19 PM
If ARod stays (and I believe that's the most likely scenario) it's going to be a frosty clubhouse..... and I believe that will be a major distraction. Will they co-exist? Sure they will, but I don't think it's going to make for a harmonious outcome (ARod/Buck Showalter, part II). But that's just my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree with it. In any event, we will see what happens and I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

Blame Jeter for this. Great player but not a team captain.

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:20 PM
a-rod's worth is whatever the yankee FO and cashman define it to be. we may all still think he's the best player in the league and his value to this team is still very high, but after all the NY media backlash and unnecessary drama he has put this team through, there is a lot of thinking to be done on cashman's part. he'll still be getting offers, and based on what the yankees perceive to be equal value, a-rod could stay but he could just as easily be dealt (more easily than we all probably think.) his value, while still very good at the price the yankees are paying, is nonetheless at an all-time low right now.

You have to account for the fact that he's now 3 more years into his deal so there's a lot less money obligation plus the Yankees can kick in more. There's plenty of a market for A-Rod.

Johnny O
10-10-06, 06:20 PM
Giambi sat out many games and Abreu's role was different on Philly, I don't think he will K that much next year, and I tend to believe most would agree, however good points brought up, but I still agree with my point that Cano, Abreu, and Jeter are the most important hitters to this team as they represent the type of hitting that is successful against good pitching, i.e. in the playoffs.

Abreu hit 3rd on the Yanks & Phils, although where you hit in the order has little bearing on your approach as a hitter (his K rate was nearly identical in both places, about 25% of his ABs).

The worst possible hitting profile versus good pitching is the free-swinger, which is exemplified by Cano.

There is no evidence to what you're saying except that you believe it.

I think trading ARod is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, as he can bring back a good return, but to think we can simply trade him for an ace level pitcher is folly. Giambi & Matsui are pretty much untradable - both make way too much money, and Giambi is a physical wreck.

Version 2007 is going to be very similar to 2006, with probably the addition of Matsuzaka and some bullpen depth.

bardos
10-10-06, 06:22 PM
i think a-rod is gone by spring training. To get a top pitcher in a trade the yankees have to sacrifice offense. a-rod is probably the best trading chip they've had in a while, if he gives up his no-trade option . I think a-rod can probably be replaced at 3b by someone (i have no one in mind) and the offense will not suffer too dearly. just my opinion.

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:22 PM
You have to account for the fact that he's now 3 more years into his deal so there's a lot less money obligation plus the Yankees can kick in more. There's plenty of a market for A-Rod.

imo, a young pitcher and a ML ready 3rd baseman gets it done

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:24 PM
if a-rod can bring over just one good, young pitcher, i'd even be willing to forgo the ML ready 3rd baseman and take our lumps with eric duncan at 3rd

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:24 PM
There was somewhat of an "I told you so" tone from some posters. All I'm saying is that any announcement from the front office means absolutely nothing.

ohh yeah I know who your talking about, the 2nd post said that "I told you so" bull, yeah, we molded away from that ridiculous statment rather quickly

BillBuckner
10-10-06, 06:25 PM
they also made him the team captain.
That's right. You know, Texas was undefeated during A-Rod's tenure as captain. Maybe we should strip Jeter and give him the reigns. ;)

JeffWeaverFan
10-10-06, 06:25 PM
We'll see... Cash would be an idiot to say that he wants to trade A-Rod. If he is thinking about trading him, he'll keep it as quiet as he can.

Boogiedown Bomber
10-10-06, 06:26 PM
We'll see... Cash would be an idiot to say that he wants to trade A-Rod. If he is thinking about trading him, he'll keep it as quiet as he can.

Once again, you are correct in your estimation.

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:27 PM
if a-rod can bring over just one good, young pitcher, i'd even be willing to forgo the ML ready 3rd baseman and take our lumps with eric duncan at 3rd

IMO I think you're underestimating A-Rod's value severely. Look at who's available in the free agent market this offseason. We're not dumping salary here like Texas.

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:27 PM
Abreu hit 3rd on the Yanks & Phils, although where you hit in the order has little bearing on your approach as a hitter (his K rate was nearly identical in both places, about 25% of his ABs).

The worst possible hitting profile versus good pitching is the free-swinger, which is exemplified by Cano.

There is no evidence to what you're saying except that you believe it.

I think trading ARod is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, as he can bring back a good return, but to think we can simply trade him for an ace level pitcher is folly. Giambi & Matsui are pretty much untradable - both make way too much money, and Giambi is a physical wreck.

Version 2007 is going to be very similar to 2006, with probably the addition of Matsuzaka and some bullpen depth.

Yeah, I am pretty much going on what I believe...in high average batting as a criteria, I'm not much into the other stats...so I guess we leave off on that...and I agree with the rest of your statment...although, I thought Matsuzaka still have another year to play in Japan and this year is the bidding year and that he still plays in Japan during the bidding year?

Spiker101
10-10-06, 06:29 PM
I guarantee Torre doesn't want him here anymore either...

I really wonder what the truth is about that. I can see Torre deciding that he's going to "fix" ARod if it's the last thing he does. We'll probably never going to hear what will happen behind the scenes vis a vis Torre, Jeter and ARod but I bet it would be interesting.

yank4life2005
10-10-06, 06:30 PM
He was on the Michael Kay show and said he would not shop him BUT he would listen to offers.

What else is he suppose to say?

A-Rod is on the market...Let the bidding begin!

Driveblind
10-10-06, 06:30 PM
Awww, it's always cute watching someone play with their straw man.

your malicious sarcasm used to be fun but its just tired now :(

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:32 PM
IMO I think you're underestimating A-Rod's value severely. Look at who's available in the free agent market this offseason. We're not dumping salary here like Texas.

that was just my own personal take on the situation.

honestly, i love a-rod to death as a player, but the unecessary stress and drama he brings to this team (either unprovoked or provoked) is making the yankees into a spectacle and a pain to watch. it sucks to say it, but i'd rather he be off the team.

Davios
10-10-06, 06:32 PM
I love Alex and wish I could see him succeed as a Yankee, but Cashman is already laying his cards out to deal him in the offseason.

Johnny O
10-10-06, 06:33 PM
Yeah, I am pretty much going on what I believe...in high average batting as a criteria, I'm not much into the other stats...so I guess we leave off on that...and I agree with the rest of your statment...although, I thought Matsuzaka still have another year to play in Japan and this year is the bidding year and that he still plays in Japan during the bidding year?

Matsuzaka - technically not a FA until after the 2007 season, but then Seibu will get nothing for him. If they post him before 2007, which it sounds like they intend to do, then they will get the cash from the highest bidder. He's the class of the FA class, a much safer bet than Schmidt or Zito, even if a bit more expensive.

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:33 PM
For now ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2620449

it's all just leverage.

"We have every intention of keeping randy johnson in a diamondbacks uniform."

"We have every intention of keeping javier vazquez in NY."

"We have every intention of keeping a-rod in texas."

same old sh*t, just a different day.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 06:33 PM
if a-rod can bring over just one good, young pitcher, i'd even be willing to forgo the ML ready 3rd baseman and take our lumps with eric duncan at 3rd

That would be one too many lumps, you'd be asking a guy who is already struggling at the plate a lot, who played 1st base most of the year then switched back to 3rd (a position he was never good at 3rd to begin with), to come play 3rd in the majors...

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:34 PM
I love Alex and wish I could see him succeed as a Yankee, but Cashman is already laying his cards out to deal him in the offseason.

I hope your right...and I hope it involves a young firearm

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:35 PM
That would be one too many lumps, you'd be asking a guy who is already struggling at the plate a lot, who played 1st base most of the year then switched back to 3rd (a position he was never good at 3rd to begin with), to come play 3rd in the majors...

just keep an eye out on which position he plays during the AFL... it could bear much meaning

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:35 PM
Matsuzaka - technically not a FA until after the 2007 season, but then Seibu will get nothing for him. If they post him before 2007, which it sounds like they intend to do, then they will get the cash from the highest bidder. He's the class of the FA class, a much safer bet than Schmidt or Zito, even if a bit more expensive.

Ok, so he has to be posted and bidded on before 2007 in order to play with a MLB team in 2007...M&MD would be incorrect if that statement is true, which would not surprise me.

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:36 PM
just keep an eye out on which position he plays during the AFL... it could bear much meaning

His back worries me way too much...at 20 and 21 he's having back problems??

mrbawm
10-10-06, 06:36 PM
that was just my own personal take on the situation.

honestly, i love a-rod to death as a player, but the unecessary stress and drama he brings to this team (either unprovoked or provoked) is making the yankees into a spectacle and a pain to watch. it sucks to say it, but i'd rather he be off the team.

You cannot forget the man has got star power. Big pitching may win games but big hitting puts the people in seats, a lot of teams could use that.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 06:37 PM
just keep an eye out on which position he plays during the AFL... it could bear much meaning

He can't hit with any consistency, this is a real problem. He just really isn't good at this point, the only thing he has going for him is his age...

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:38 PM
His back worries me way too much...at 20 and 21 he's having back problems??

they haven't proven to be chronic, and from what i hear, he's already been put on a very rigorous strength and conditioning program to work out the muscles in his back. i think he'll be fine. he wouldn't be playing in instructionals and the AFL if his back was that bad.

flymick24
10-10-06, 06:40 PM
He can't hit with any consistency, this is a real problem. He just really isn't good at this point, the only thing he has going for him is his age...

with prospects, you have to observe trends, and what you see with eric duncan is that the power is already there, but his plate patience greatly improved this year.

with another strong performance in the AFL and a nice ST, he'll probably be promoted to AAA again, and if he continues to succeed, there's no point in letting him rot in the minors. he's gonna need to be on a major league roster sooner or later.

(btw, he's raking in the instructional league.)

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:44 PM
they haven't proven to be chronic, and from what i hear, he's already been put on a very rigorous strength and conditioning program to work out the muscles in his back. i think he'll be fine. he wouldn't be playing in instructionals and the AFL if his back was that bad.

Good observation, I didn't connect the two as I knew he was playing in the AFL again...I did think his back pain was chronic, glad to hear its not as the last I heard he was going to see a back specialist, maybe it was precautionary.

bambam51
10-10-06, 06:44 PM
LOL at this thread.

yankeeman61
10-10-06, 06:47 PM
I don't think it's going to get any easier for ARod next year. In fact it could get even worse for him. If he thought the frying pan was hot this year, if he slumps again I can see him melting down in mid-season. His trade value at mid-season will sink because the Yanks could be desperate by then. Right now Cashman has to say ARod is coming back, but let's say Piniella goes to SF. If they can come up with a decent combo involving a good starting pitcher while sending ARod to reunite with Lou on the West Coast in the NL.....I think I would work that out.

PittsburghYankeeFan
10-10-06, 06:52 PM
This means nothing. Perhaps Cashman truly does want Arod to stay. Its a possibility. But, even if he did want to trade him he could never say so. Because what if he did want to trade him but then never found a deal to act upon. Now you're stuck with a guy that knows the GM doesn't even want him there. All it would do is further screw up Arod's poor, fragile state of mind.

Honestly, what could they really get for him, that (1) ARod would accept to waive his NT, and (2) that is of equal value on the field (leaving out all of the psychodrama)?

He is not going to an AL (or even NL) contender, so he won't waive his NT. Therefore he stays. Kind of like the presidential elections...four more years...four more years...

destiNY
10-10-06, 06:53 PM
Honestly, what could they really get for him, that (1) ARod would accept to waive his NT, and (2) that is of equal value on the field (leaving out all of the psychodrama)?

He is not going to an AL (or even NL) contender, so he won't waive his NT. Therefore he stays. Kind of like the presidential elections...four more years...four more years...

Why do you think he wouldn't go to an NL contender?? Almost all of the NL contended this year, ;) ...I'd say the Dodgers are a legit contender, big enough market and have some pieces that we need/want...

bagger015
10-10-06, 06:55 PM
I find it quite ludicrous that anyone would want to trade the best player in baseball who had an off year.

And the off year is because of ridiculous expectations of the Yankee fans.......

Most players would give up both nuts to have the numbers that Alex put up this year...........and the 24 errors did not hurt the club as they won the division...........

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=190 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">GM</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">HR</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">RBI</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">R</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">OBP</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">AVG</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">154</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">35</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">121</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">113</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.392</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.290</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Davios
10-10-06, 06:55 PM
I don't think it's going to get any easier for ARod next year. In fact it could get even worse for him. If he thought the frying pan was hot this year, if he slumps again I can see him melting down in mid-season. His trade value at mid-season will sink because the Yanks could be desperate by then. Right now Cashman has to say ARod is coming back, but let's say Piniella goes to SF. If they can come up with a decent combo involving a good starting pitcher while sending ARod to reunite with Lou on the West Coast in the NL.....I think I would work that out.



The Giants do not really have any bigtime young pitchers aside from Matt Cain and a bunch of talented relievers in the minor leagues. I am not trading Alex for relief pitching and San Francisco isn't dealing Matt Cain....

PittsburghYankeeFan
10-10-06, 06:56 PM
it's all just leverage.

"We have every intention of keeping randy johnson in a diamondbacks uniform." But AZ couldn't give him a 3 year contract.

"We have every intention of keeping javier vazquez in NY."But a pitcher that the owner salivated for, combined with a bunch of SeaMonkeys as advisors, resulted in a dumb trade.

"We have every intention of keeping a-rod in texas."Saddled with his huge contract that the owner gave him, assembling a winning team was impossible.

same old sh*t, just a different day.There are reasons for each of the above. I have get to see a decent reason to trade ARod.

PittsburghYankeeFan
10-10-06, 06:57 PM
The Giants do not really have any bigtime young pitchers aside from Matt Cain and a bunch of talented relievers in the minor leagues. I am not trading Alex for relief pitching and San Francisco isn't dealing Matt Cain....

ARod would not waive his NT to go to SF.

destiNY
10-10-06, 07:00 PM
The Giants do not really have any bigtime young pitchers aside from Matt Cain and a bunch of talented relievers in the minor leagues. I am not trading Alex for relief pitching and San Francisco isn't dealing Matt Cain....

they did trade liriano, nathan, and Garza for Pierzynski...:D I agree though, they won't make the same mistake twice, although you never knoowww...

destiNY
10-10-06, 07:02 PM
I don't know why people think Arod won't waive his no trade clause...I have a strong belief that Arod will leave if asked, he knows he would never ever survive here if he denied a trade.

SINCE77 2
10-10-06, 07:04 PM
I don't know why people think Arod won't waive his no trade clause...I have a strong belief that Arod will leave if asked, he knows he would never ever survive here if he denied a trade.



Agreed. No one wants to be someplace in which they are not wanted.

PittsburghYankeeFan
10-10-06, 07:05 PM
Agreed. No one wants to be someplace in which they are not wanted.

But somebody came here to win a WS ring, and will not go somewhere where there isn't a chance that will happen. His employers won't trade him to their closest competitors, either.

51BWilliams
10-10-06, 07:11 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=190 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">GM</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">HR</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">RBI</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">R</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">OBP</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #bcbcb4" width="17%">AVG</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">154</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">35</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">121</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">113</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.392</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #999999">.290</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

You don't boo that. :D

SINCE77 2
10-10-06, 07:12 PM
But somebody came here to win a WS ring, and will not go somewhere where there isn't a chance that will happen. His employers won't trade him to their closest competitors, either.


I see your point, but its not like the Yankees are a safe bet anymore to advance much beyond the first round. Other teams have similar chances with less headaches. IMO, Arod could conceivably lead the Cubs to their 1st WS in many years in that weak NL Central. He could hit 50-60 homers yearly and be a star in no ones shadow. All I would ask for would be Zambrano.

Dr. Gonzo
10-10-06, 07:13 PM
this means nothing, I want arod to stay, but cashman is smart, he of course will listen to any offer, like any reasonable person will. Cashman just isn't looking to dump him, but he will listen and if he is blown over, then...

yankeeman61
10-10-06, 07:13 PM
But somebody came here to win a WS ring, and will not go somewhere where there isn't a chance that will happen. His employers won't trade him to their closest competitors, either.

With Bonds up in the air the Giants could be interested in a marquee player. I don't think ARod waives his no-trade unless Lou goes there. If Lou goes there he must believe the Giants are committed to winning , because that's what he wants too. You never know....

cupcollector99
10-10-06, 07:14 PM
Cashman is a good GM. If someone offered him the moon, or two or three good pitchers for Alex, he'd take it.. He'd be crazy not to.

Dr. Gonzo
10-10-06, 07:15 PM
Let me pose an addendum to this thread, rather then start a new one:

why type of blackeye on arods legacy would leaving new york be. I think it would follow him and may hurt is chances to be considered the greatest or one of the greatest, because greats don't shy away from the stage and pressure.

nnysiny
10-10-06, 07:18 PM
i really hope this is Cashman playing "hard to get"

TheTinoMobile
10-10-06, 07:20 PM
The only starting pitchers I would trade A-Rod for, who have proved they can play and enjoy the espn spotlight, are Johan Santana, Dontrelle Willis, and Roy Halladay.

I wouldn't trade him if the Angels offered Weaver + Wood, or Ervin Santana + Wood, or Lackey, Santana and Wood.... Ervin Santana is not that good, Jared Weaver is a punk who may never pitch as well as he did this year again, and Brandon Wood is a shortstop, and Im not going through the pains of transferring a shortstop to 3B again. I'm perfectly fine with Alex in that position. As for John Lackey, he's too ugly to ever be in pinstripes.. needs to fix his face first, we're a pretty team ;)

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 07:20 PM
with prospects, you have to observe trends, and what you see with eric duncan is that the power is already there, but his plate patience greatly improved this year.

with another strong performance in the AFL and a nice ST, he'll probably be promoted to AAA again, and if he continues to succeed, there's no point in letting him rot in the minors. he's gonna need to be on a major league roster sooner or later.

(btw, he's raking in the instructional league.)

I agree but there is no chance he is the majors for a while, like I said before the only thing he has going for him is that he is still young.BTW, a .355 OBP is still nothing great considering he can't field or slug at a great rate...

destiNY
10-10-06, 07:21 PM
Let me pose an addendum to this thread, rather then start a new one:

why type of blackeye on arods legacy would leaving new york be. I think it would follow him and may hurt is chances to be considered the greatest or one of the greatest, because greats don't shy away from the stage and pressure.

I don't know whats worse him running away from it or never producing in the playoffs year after year to never winning a WS. He'll win a WS here when the Yankees have pitching, unfortunately until Hughes and co. develops, that won't happen unless major moves are made.

And right now he's our only chance at getting a legit young firearm

cupcollector99
10-10-06, 07:22 PM
Let me pose an addendum to this thread, rather then start a new one:

why type of blackeye on arods legacy would leaving new york be. I think it would follow him and may hurt is chances to be considered the greatest or one of the greatest, because greats don't shy away from the stage and pressure.

I don't think they'd deny him a place in the HOF is he's "traded" from NY. He'll be the best SS in the majors and probably rack up career records until he retires. By staying in NY he becomes a below average 3rd baseman on a team of superstars.
Making it in NY is just a song. Plenty of players had HOF careers and they didn't need to play for a NY team to prove themselves.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 07:22 PM
Let me pose an addendum to this thread, rather then start a new one:

why type of blackeye on arods legacy would leaving new york be. I think it would follow him and may hurt is chances to be considered the greatest or one of the greatest, because greats don't shy away from the stage and pressure.

He would probably get into the hall of fame if he quit now. And he isn't any longer considered to be the greatest or one of the greatest of all time any longer...

genius-24
10-10-06, 07:26 PM
i am not really gonna give any weight on cashman's statement. anything is possible. If, IF arod is going to stay here then...jeet, torre, cash, and boss need to figure something out to blow the negative energy away. and us fans should start expecting less from Arod since more expectation we put on arod the more pressure he will put on himself which is one of main reason for his downfall.

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 07:28 PM
I see your point, but its not like the Yankees are a safe bet anymore to advance much beyond the first round. Other teams have similar chances with less headaches. IMO, Arod could conceivably lead the Cubs to their 1st WS in many years in that weak NL Central. He could hit 50-60 homers yearly and be a star in no ones shadow. All I would ask for would be Zambrano.

The Cubs stink. Trading away their best pitcher wont make them better either. No chance in hell ARod approves a trade there.

I think you would have a better shot at trying to convince him to go to SD, and then asking for Peavy. Even thats a longshot.

genius-24
10-10-06, 07:32 PM
The Cubs stink. Trading away their best pitcher wont make them better either. No chance in hell ARod approves a trade there.

I think you would have a better shot at trying to convince him to go to SD, and then asking for Peavy. Even thats a longshot.
i dont see him going there either

NYDCYankee
10-10-06, 07:33 PM
Sure Cash, whatever.

JL25and3
10-10-06, 07:45 PM
I would bet good money that Rodriguez will not approve a trade.

If he ever did, it would only be to a playoff-ready, big-money, big-media marquee team. The Yankees won't deal with the Mets or the Red Sox, so that would basically leave the two LA teams. Cubs? Terrible organization. Giants? Slip-sliding away.

The only exception *might* be if Piniella gets hired somewhere else. But not necessarily - he wouldn't have followed Lou to Tampa Bay.

I still believe he's not going anywhere, and a good thing. I haven't yet seen a proposed deal that I think makes the Yankees a better team.

SINCE77 2
10-10-06, 07:46 PM
The Cubs stink. Trading away their best pitcher wont make them better either. No chance in hell ARod approves a trade there.

I think you would have a better shot at trying to convince him to go to SD, and then asking for Peavy. Even thats a longshot.


Zambrano is a FA in 2008. Peavy is not. The Cubs play in a lousy division with a fading Cards team that just made the playoffs. They have just as good a chance as the Reds who were close this year.

Dr. Gonzo
10-10-06, 07:46 PM
He would probably get into the hall of fame if he quit now. And he isn't any longer considered to be the greatest or one of the greatest of all time any longer...hall of fame no doubt, but his elite player legacy

gill2k
10-10-06, 07:48 PM
That's good to know... finally we can put the "Santana + Figgins" for A-Rod proposal away (for now =P ).

Now, if someone can just lit a fire up his arse come postseason next year and we'll be all set.

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 07:50 PM
Zambrano is a FA in 2008. Peavy is not. The Cubs play in a lousy division with a fading Cards team that just made the playoffs. They have just as good a chance as the Reds who were close this year.

I would think they would attempt to resign Zambrano. He's still in his prime. And the Cubs are so far away from contending.

4bronxbombers
10-10-06, 07:51 PM
Cashman said this offseaosn will be pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Thank God he said that.

Bugg
10-10-06, 08:13 PM
A-rod is damaged trading goods largely because the Yankees manager decided to blab his head off about his fragile psyche to SI, and then dropped him to 8th in the order in a playoff game without any explanation. In fact, on MMD Torre expressed surprise when asked about it,and said he expected there would be more questions about benching (the perpetually hurt) Giambi*. And did nothing to damage the breach in his clubhouse, all the while when his supposed strength is "managing egos" rather than strategy. Crazy idea-tell A-rod and Jeter to come into his office and sort this crap out like adults once and for all. But he never did it. I guess speaking engagements and foundation work might have, in the last 9 or so months, precluded that discussion.

So you've gone from Soriano to A-rod to a total dump job in this wash-at best some iffy prospect or somebody else's contract or physical mess on the downside. You aren't getting cheap, nonarbitration eligible prospects. Way to go, Joe!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-06, 08:17 PM
hall of fame no doubt, but his elite player legacy

He is always going to be considered an "elite" player as long as he puts up 35 HRs and 120+ RBIs in an off year, he is just a headcase...

gdn
10-10-06, 08:32 PM
YAY! :lol:

poisonpill
10-10-06, 08:35 PM
Today's comments by Cashman et al. mean nothing. He could be either lying about some or all of what he said. Who knows even if teams inquired about him? All of that could be positioning to get a better offer for Arod.

As we saw before the Abreu/Lidle trade, Cashman is highly adept at maneuvering himself into getting the best deal possible.

The Q Bomb
10-10-06, 08:40 PM
I read the article and it hardly sounds like a slam dunk that A-Rod will not be traded. Just look:

General manager Brian Cashman said the team had no intention of trading Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5275), ...

"I fully expect him to be here," Cashman said Tuesday.
He sounds like someone on Meet The Press or at the U.N. General Assembly double talking.

Secondly, it is a bit weird that he said how many "hits" he got to trade A-Rod but Cashman does that a lot. He's just a bit too frank sometimes or as my daughter would say he gives out TMI.

Look at it realistically - Cashman has to do what he can to improve the team and if trading A-Rod can do that so be it. On the other hand - this would be a tremendous failure for him, the team, and A-Rod. Lastly, who could you trade A-Rod for? The only fair value right now - even with his "poor" season and horrendous post-seasons would be Albert Pujols. Great - we can have a fourth first baseman! (And the way we are in The Bronx - we will boo Pujols when he hits .200 in April and he will be added to the list of high profile failures in pinstripes.) Frankly, there is no pitcher - short of Johann Santana and Francisco Liriano for whom I'd trade A-Rod. Santana is great but he has only been pitching for what - 4 years? You really need a few more good years to know you have a bonafide long-term star. Also, talk about not performing in the post season - Santana pitches well enough, but if my memory serves me correctly - he doesn't win playoff games. Zito, who is a free agent any way, is a gamble. Dontrelle Willis is good, but how good will he be in The American League and in The Bronx? What other pitcher is the pitching equivalent of A-Rod - even with his "chokiness" exposed? And how good would any of these pitchers be when traded for A-Rod with all those expectations? We are really stuck with this guy and I hate to say it that way because he is really a good player and a seemingly good guy.

And this nonsense that "Jeter, A-Rod, and Torre, need to have a meeting and work this out." slays me. Jeter? Since when is he management? Jeter needs show up and play (like he does) and stop fostering this nonsense. No one can make him like his team mate but it should be conveyed to him that as captain, he did not help the situation any by hanging his team mate out to dry or more accurately letting his teammate hang out to dry. But this notion that Jeter should have a say in major decisons or the direction of this club or be induced to settle some score for the sake of the club is ludicrous. Jeter is an employee (albeit one that is the cornerstone of this team and its success) not management!

I know A-Rod has been horrible in the post season, especially when you consider the expectations that have been (in most cases rightfully so) placed on him. He is expected to do more because he is capable of doing more and is paid to do more. With that being said, if you compare his 2005 and 2006 post seasons he is not notably worse than the other big hitters on this team (I don't think).

Finally, this notion that "A-Rod needs to learn what learn what it is to be a Yankee" is nonsense. What makes any one think he doesn't know what it means? He was overjoyed to come here. He worked like a dog to master a new position; to fit in; to do anything to help the club. The fact that he hasn't executed doesn't mean he doesn't understand what it means to be a Yankee. It just means that, for whatever reason, his talent has deserted him (hopefully temporarily) - not that he doesn't care.

PittsburghYankeeFan
10-10-06, 08:45 PM
I read the article and it hardly sounds like a slam dunk that A-Rod will not be traded. Just look:

He sounds like someone on Meet The Press or at the U.N. General Assembly double talking.

Secondly, it is a bit weird that he said how many "hits" he got to trade A-Rod but Cashman does that a lot. He's just a bit too frank sometimes or as my daughter would say he gives out TMI.

Look at it realistically - Cashman has to do what he can to improve the team and if trading A-Rod can do that so be it. On the other hand - this would be a tremendous failure for him, the team, and A-Rod. Lastly, who could you trade A-Rod for? The only fair value right now - even with his "poor" season and horrendous post-seasons would be Albert Pujols. Great - we can have a fourth first baseman! (And the way we are in The Bronx - we will boo Pujols when he hits .200 in April and he will be added to the list of high profile failures in pinstripes.) Frankly, there is no pitcher - short of Johann Santana and Francisco Liriano for whom I'd trade A-Rod. Santana is great but he has only been pitching for what - 4 years? You really need a few more good years to know you have a bonafide long-term star. Also, talk about not performing in the post season - Santana pitches well enough, but if my memory serves me correctly - he doesn't win playoff games. Zito, who is a free agent any way, is a gamble. Dontrelle Willis is good, but how good will he be in The American League and in The Bronx? What other pitcher is the pitching equivalent of A-Rod - even with his "chokiness" exposed? And how good would any of these pitchers be when traded for A-Rod with all those expectations? We are really stuck with this guy and I hate to say it that way because he is really a good player and a seemingly good guy.

And this nonsense that "Jeter, A-Rod, and Torre, need to have a meeting and work this out." slays me. Jeter? Since when is he management? Jeter needs show up and play (like he does) and stop fostering this nonsense. No one can make him like his team mate but it should be conveyed to him that as captain, he did not help the situation any by hanging his team mate out to dry or more accurately letting his teammate hang out to dry. But this notion that Jeter should have a say in major decisons or the direction of this club or be induced to settle some score for the sake of the club is ludicrous. Jeter is an employee (albeit one that is the cornerstone of this team and its success) not management!

I know A-Rod has been horrible in the post season, especially when you consider the expectations that have been (in most cases rightfully so) placed on him. He is expected to do more because he is capable of doing more and is paid to do more. With that being said, if you compare his 2005 and 2006 post seasons he is not notably worse than the other big hitters on this team (I don't think).

Finally, this notion that "A-Rod needs to learn what learn what it is to be a Yankee" is nonsense. What makes any one think he doesn't know what it means? He was overjoyed to come here. He worked like a dog to master a new position; to fit in; to do anything to help the club. The fact that he hasn't executed doesn't mean he doesn't understand what it means to be a Yankee. It just means that, for whatever reason, his talent has deserted him (hopefully temporarily) - not that he doesn't care.

Some sense in the ARod discussion? It's two weeks too early for that! Thanks for articulating what a lot of us feel.

PeteRFNY
10-10-06, 08:48 PM
Wow, two bits of news today that make me unhappy. First Torre, now A-rod...

aleahey
10-10-06, 08:48 PM
This is good news. Arod didn't play well, but trading him just doesn't make sense. You aren't going to trade him for a 3b of equal or greater talent, who hits even as many HR's as he did this year AND a pitcher. So why bother?

The huge chunks of fat on this team that need to be cut are Sheffield, Giambi and possibly Matsui.

Dr. Gonzo
10-10-06, 08:53 PM
This is good news. Arod didn't play well, but trading him just doesn't make sense. You aren't going to trade him for a 3b of equal or greater talent, who hits even as many HR's as he did this year AND a pitcher. So why bother?

The huge chunks of fat on this team that need to be cut are Sheffield, Giambi and possibly Matsui.its weird how people have quickly become sour on matsui, and I am one of them. We signed another DH, three more years to go, and 2 more of giambi, that stinks

stephsamps
10-10-06, 08:53 PM
Let me pose an addendum to this thread, rather then start a new one:

why type of blackeye on arods legacy would leaving new york be. I think it would follow him and may hurt is chances to be considered the greatest or one of the greatest, because greats don't shy away from the stage and pressure.

I don't think it will be a black eye at all. In fact, I think it will end up being better for him. He will get out of the media shtstorm and have the chance to perform like AROD again. If he continues to stay here as a pretty good 3B who can't hack it in the playoffs, it would hurt his legacy a lot more.

stephsamps
10-10-06, 08:55 PM
For those of you who insist AROD won't waive his no-trade... Imagine the backlash in this town if Cash is able to pull off a killer trade for the team and Alex refuses to go. He thinks its bad now... forget about it.

I dont think a trade would come out of the blue though. I would think Cash would consult him to see where he'd like to go yada yada.

dabomb2045
10-10-06, 08:56 PM
I don't think it will be a black eye at all. In fact, I think it will end up being better for him. He will get out of the media shtstorm and have the chance to perform like AROD again. If he continues to stay here as a pretty good 3B who can't hack it in the playoffs, it would hurt his legacy a lot more.

Or if he stays here and plays in enough playoff series....he will have some good ones.

aleahey
10-10-06, 08:57 PM
its weird how people have quickly become sour on matsui, and I am one of them. We signed another DH, three more years to go, and 2 more of giambi, that stinks

Yeah, he's a nice guy, and a decent player but I think we could definitely do better. The Japanese revenue would be gone, but thats not my problem. Hah.