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View Full Version : Liriano headed to DL. Out indefinately.



YankeeClemens22
08-08-06, 09:31 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2543069


Francisco Liriano was on the verge of tears after Monday night's game against the Tigers. However, it's the Twins who might be crying hardest with one of their aces looking at a likely trip to the disabled list.

The Tigers roughed up Liriano in a 9-3 rout Monday, and after the game, Twins manager Ron Gardenhire announced that the left-hander is still suffering from soreness in his throwing forearm.

Wow. Does this end the ROY, Cy talk?

I know there is a Liriano thread, but I think this is significant enough to break out of a multi-page thread to discuss news like this.

effdamets
08-08-06, 09:36 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2543069



Wow. Does this end the ROY, Cy talk?

I know there is a Liriano thread, but I think this is significant enough to break out of a multi-page thread to discuss news like this.
Oooo... This can't be good for Minnesota....

chelloveck
08-08-06, 09:47 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2543069



Wow. Does this end the ROY, Cy talk?



Papelbon by default.

Jace
08-08-06, 09:51 AM
If Wang manages to throw another shutout tonight, all the sudden he's in the middle of the Cy race too. All he has to do is shut out the White Sox... easy

chanman7483
08-08-06, 09:58 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Thanks for ruining my morning man. :@#LKj:%lj%:l@#jk%:lk@#%

mentalgidget
08-08-06, 09:59 AM
If Wang manages to throw another shutout tonight, all the sudden he's in the middle of the Cy race too. All he has to do is shut out the White Sox... easy

I think Wang is in the mix... if he throws anotehr shutout tonight, he begins to seperate himself from the field, IMO.

gdn
08-08-06, 10:01 AM
OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NO NO NO

This ruins my FBB team. Thank God I didn't drop Escobar. GO#@&&A&AMIT

chanman7483
08-08-06, 10:05 AM
I've been sitting around for the past 5 minutes in a state of panic... I can't focus with this on my mind....

Hello Vincente Padilla :(

yanksphan
08-08-06, 10:08 AM
Ouch. Too bad for the Twins. Hello Matt Garza...

NelsonMuntz
08-08-06, 10:14 AM
That really sucks for the Twins.

buckyjacobson
08-08-06, 10:19 AM
I think Wang is in the mix... if he throws anotehr shutout tonight, he begins to seperate himself from the field, IMO.

I think a shutout tonight just moves him from the Mussina/Zito/Schilling group to the Santana/Halladay/Verlander group.

Jace
08-08-06, 10:20 AM
I think Wang is in the mix... if he throws anotehr shutout tonight, he begins to seperate himself from the field, IMO.

Not yet. Verlander has 14 wins and a 2.79 ERA. There is almost zero reason currently to vote Wang over Verlander. I think Halladay is also still beating him, with Santana, Moose, and Papelbon all even or slightly ahead

CoyoteYankee
08-08-06, 10:27 AM
And the door just slammed shut on the Twins chances possibly of getting to the playoffs but most probably on getting past round 1 of the playoffs.

justin32099
08-08-06, 10:48 AM
I think Wang is in the mix... if he throws anotehr shutout tonight, he begins to seperate himself from the field, IMO.

That's an if the size of David Wells.

Jace
08-08-06, 10:50 AM
That's an if the size of David Wells.

Oh thank you, we needed that, we shall now go temper our expectations

ojo
08-08-06, 11:13 AM
Papelbon by default.


try verlander. he paces a run away first place team that's basically a worst to first story.

papelbon is great, but it's not even close when you compare.

SheffRocks11
08-08-06, 11:30 AM
That's a really tough break for the twins.

montyque
08-08-06, 11:36 AM
try verlander. he paces a run away first place team that's basically a worst to first story.

papelbon is great, but it's not even close when you compare.
I dunno... I haven't paid nearly as close attention to the Tigers as I have the Red Sox, for obvious reasons, but Papelbon has clearly (thus far) put up one of the all-time greatest seasons for a closer. He's stood out as a godsend on a pretty crappy relief corps, and a pretty crappy whole pitching staff, for that matter. I think there's even a case for him as team MVP over that DH, whats his name, Clutchie McClutchenstein.

ojo
08-08-06, 11:48 AM
I dunno... I haven't paid nearly as close attention to the Tigers as I have the Red Sox, for obvious reasons, but Papelbon has clearly (thus far) put up one of the all-time greatest seasons for a closer. He's stood out as a godsend on a pretty crappy relief corps, and a pretty crappy whole pitching staff, for that matter. I think there's even a case for him as team MVP over that DH, whats his name, Clutchie McClutchenstein.

the league hasn't seen papelbon and though he appears he'll be great, what we are seeing is essentially one of the greatest smoke/mirrors displays of all time.

i'm not calling him a charlatan or a fraud, cuz he's clearly storming the league with the goods, but know this - every time he's been burned this year (4 BS) it's been against a team that's already faced him. he's able to hide behind the 'unfamiliarity' clause....wait til he gets seen more...verlander doesn't have that luxury in that teams face him 4/5 times a game.

effdamets
08-08-06, 11:50 AM
the league hasn't seen papelbon and though he appears he'll be great, what we are seeing is essentially one of the greatest smoke/mirrors displays of all time.

i'm not calling him a charlatan or a fraud, cuz he's clearly storming the league with the goods, but know this - every time he's been burned this year (4 BS) it's been against a team that's already faced him. he's able to hide behind the 'unfamiliarity' clause....wait til he gets seen more...verlander doesn't have that luxury in that teams face him 4/5 times a game.
At this point, if Mariano Rivera never won a Cy Young award, I don't think one can be awarded to Paplebon.

jonnyc39
08-08-06, 11:52 AM
the league hasn't seen papelbon and though he appears he'll be great, what we are seeing is essentially one of the greatest smoke/mirrors displays of all time.

i'm not calling him a charlatan or a fraud, cuz he's clearly storming the league with the goods, but know this - every time he's been burned this year (4 BS) it's been against a team that's already faced him. he's able to hide behind the 'unfamiliarity' clause....wait til he gets seen more...verlander doesn't have that luxury in that teams face him 4/5 times a game.None of that changes the fact that Papelbon is having an historic season. Plenty of relief pitchers fit the bill you just described, but none post a .6 ERA. What he's doing is pretty special.

LuckyLopez
08-08-06, 11:53 AM
ojo,

Does it matter? IF Papelbon puts up the numbers to deserve a 2006 single season award it should be decided based on who deserved it in 2006. Not who will be better the rest of the way. I think Liriano is the better pitcher than Verlander but if his injury and late start mean Verlander having the clearly better season I can't reasonably vote on Liriano based on the fact that I think his rookie card will be more valuable.

If your prediction holds up true and Papelbon starts to get hurt in the remaining 2 months, then it will show in his stats and its a moot point.

Woodshed42
08-08-06, 11:59 AM
Papelbon by default.

More like Papelbon on merit...it was going to be close even if Liriano was healthy. It might have come down to which team made the playoffs.

ojo
08-08-06, 11:59 AM
ojo,

Does it matter? IF Papelbon puts up the numbers to deserve a 2006 single season award it should be decided based on who deserved it in 2006. Not who will be better the rest of the way. I think Liriano is the better pitcher than Verlander but if his injury and late start mean Verlander having the clearly better season I can't reasonably vote on Liriano based on the fact that I think his rookie card will be more valuable.

If your prediction holds up true and Papelbon starts to get hurt in the remaining 2 months, then it will show in his stats and its a moot point.

i made that point only to help show the true distance between verlander and papelbon.

but you're right, the stats will tell most of the story when it's all said and done.

keithf1
08-08-06, 12:24 PM
Hey, we aren't the only team with injuries

BroadwayBomber55
08-08-06, 12:38 PM
Huge loss for the Twins with Francisco Liriano out. Their playoff chances are gettin' slimmer and slimmer.

OlgMvp
08-08-06, 01:08 PM
This probably eliminates Minnesota...unless they call up Garza and he just dominates...but he isn't the type of prospect Liriano was/is...so I doubt he's going to step right in and wow us like Liriano.

ZYanksRule
08-08-06, 01:13 PM
Goodbye baggie.

It gets taken down on October 2, now. White Sox vs. Boston for the wild card, that'll be good.

justin32099
08-08-06, 01:14 PM
At this point, if Mariano Rivera never won a Cy Young award, I don't think one can be awarded to Paplebon.

That means nothing. The Cy Young is not a career achievement award. And Papelbon's 2006 is on pace to be better than any single season Rivera has ever produced.

Papelbon's season is one for the ages. He's been worth 6.099 wins, which is mind-boggling (#2 in the majors is Joe Nathan, at 4.647), and he's prevented 33.6 runs above replacement, also best in the bigs.

gold23
08-08-06, 01:16 PM
And.......the sound we are hearing is the Twins dropping soundly out of the WC race. They don't have the arms to contend with their mid-level type of offense.

HidekiIrabu
08-08-06, 01:21 PM
This ruins my fantasy team, and I guess it also hurts the Twins chances

jonnyc39
08-08-06, 02:08 PM
At this point, if Mariano Rivera never won a Cy Young award, I don't think one can be awarded to Paplebon.Why not? It's not like a releiver has never one it. It's happened as recently as 2003.

CanoForPresident
08-08-06, 02:18 PM
Red Sox fans around the country are celebrating.

This is really too bad. He was an excellent year.

Snatch Catch
08-08-06, 02:31 PM
Red Sox fans around the country are celebrating.

This is really too bad. He was an excellent year.


As a baseball fan this upsets me, but as a Yankee fan, while I feel bad for Liriano, I am feeling a bit better about the Yankees postseason chances with him being shelved.

Given the schedules that the Sox and the Yanks have over the period up to the 5 game series at the Fens, I don't even look at it as the Yankees having any sort of lead in the standings. Things are equal at this point in my view.

YanksFanTillDeath
08-08-06, 02:37 PM
Big lost... damn there goes my fantasy team...:mad:

Huktonfonix
08-08-06, 02:46 PM
Like Snatch, as a fan of the game, it sucks to see such a dominant rookie go down like that.

That said, I'm enormously relieved. It was looking more and more likely that the yanks would, by virtue of winning their division, get the "privilege" of facing the twins in a short series. Nothing scares me more than having to take 3 out of 5 games with Liriano and Santana pitching most of the series.

Snatch Catch
08-08-06, 02:50 PM
Like Snatch, as a fan of the game, it sucks to see such a dominant rookie go down like that.

That said, I'm enormously relieved. It was looking more and more likely that the yanks would, by virtue of winning their division, get the "privilege" of facing the twins in a short series. Nothing scares me more than having to take 3 out of 5 games with Liriano and Santana pitching most of the series.


That scared me until a friend of mine showed me what the Yankees lineup against lefties looks like.

They have something like 6 of 9 guys with OPS's greater than .900, two others close to .800, and then Cano.

noneckwilliams
08-08-06, 03:03 PM
The Twins are toast.

3 teams (NYY, Bos, Chi), 2 spots.

YanksFanTillDeath
08-08-06, 03:08 PM
The Twins are toast.

3 teams (NYY, Bos, Chi), 2 spots.

WTF? we dont play for Wild Card ... leave that for BOS

DaYanks24
08-08-06, 03:24 PM
This really puts a crink into me winning my fantasy league.

Clive
08-08-06, 03:51 PM
...and the Twins respond by calling up Garza. Fantasy owners take note.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060808&content_id=1599034&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

In Mo I Trust
08-08-06, 03:51 PM
This is a deathblow to my fantasy team.

scottm
08-08-06, 05:01 PM
Stories like this make me so happy with how the Yankees are treating Hughes. Let him come along slowly and build the arm strength to hopefully avoid these type of pains.

keithf1
08-08-06, 05:08 PM
Twins are dumb for pitching him last night.

CoyoteYankee
08-08-06, 05:10 PM
This is a deathblow to my fantasy team.

Did everyone on this board have him on their fantasy team?

YanksFanTillDeath
08-08-06, 05:20 PM
Twins are dumb for pitching him last night.

I said the same shiat... this is anothe sheff situation dont care if they deny it...:mad:

yanksrule69
08-08-06, 05:24 PM
Twins are dumb for pitching him last night.

Yeah, I agree.

I don't like to see a kid who's having such a good year good year go down, but I don't mind not seeing him again for the rest of the year (including the playoffs) if that's the case.

buckyjacobson
08-08-06, 05:52 PM
I said the same shiat... this is anothe sheff situation dont care if they deny it...:mad:

What is a "sheff situation", and why were they dumb for pitching him last night?

aeromac76
08-08-06, 05:53 PM
Like Snatch, as a fan of the game, it sucks to see such a dominant rookie go down like that.

That said, I'm enormously relieved. It was looking more and more likely that the yanks would, by virtue of winning their division, get the "privilege" of facing the twins in a short series. Nothing scares me more than having to take 3 out of 5 games with Liriano and Santana pitching most of the series.

Exactly.
It means one of two things..
One, the Twins may now, not make the playoffs. If that is true, then the 4 team battle for 2 spots just became a three team battle for two spots..

Two, if they do sqeak in and we play them, they just became a lot less scary.
We have always fought the good fight against Santana and Radke does not even come close to scaring me.. Without Liriano, I think we'd smoke the Twins in the playoffs..

DontHateOnNumber2
08-08-06, 06:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2543069



Wow. Does this end the ROY, Cy talk?

I know there is a Liriano thread, but I think this is significant enough to break out of a multi-page thread to discuss news like this.
ROY and Cy Young isn't the problem, it's the push for the playoffs that the Twins were blazing on. This isn't looking good for them, although if we beat up on the White Sox we'd be helping them out quite a bit.

nnysiny
08-08-06, 06:31 PM
whew. the Twins are the only team i didnt want to see in the playoffs

The Yankee Kahuna
08-08-06, 06:46 PM
I wanted Liriano in a package where I was getting rid of Soriano but the guy offered me Jered Weaver, thank god.

Huktonfonix
08-08-06, 07:35 PM
That scared me until a friend of mine showed me what the Yankees lineup against lefties looks like.

They have something like 6 of 9 guys with OPS's greater than .900, two others close to .800, and then Cano.

These are other-worldly lefties though. I'm not sure that what our lineup does against ted lilly makes me any less scared of a santana/liriano 1-2 punch in a short series.

Kangamangus
08-08-06, 08:17 PM
I wanted Liriano in a package where I was getting rid of Soriano but the guy offered me Jered Weaver, thank god.

I just traded Liriano and Sizemore for Vernon Wells last week after he missed his scheduled start. I had a feeling that something wasn't right, so I sold him high while I could.

ladyleo
08-09-06, 12:34 AM
Luckily, I didn't have Liriano on my fantasy.

I feel sorry for Liriano and the Twins fans.

But, hopefully, this will help make things easier for the Yanks in the playoff race. Guess I won't be seeing Liriano at the Sept. 1 game I have tickets for.

SoCal Pinstriper
09-05-06, 12:11 PM
ST. PETERSBURG, FLA. - Francisco Liriano remained on track to return to the Twins' rotation Sept. 14, reporting no elbow pain in a 73-pitch bullpen session Monday.

Liriano will throw a simulated game against Twins hitters Wednesday, and if that goes well, he will be ready for a minor league rehab appearance Saturday. http://www.startribune.com/509/story/655283.html
Good news for the Twins and fantasy owners.

mjdlight
09-05-06, 12:20 PM
Awesome news for Liriano and Twins fans, and awesome news for me when I wear my "Fan of Baseball" hat.


But if I put my "Yankees Fan" hat on, I'm just darn glad the Tigers are probably going to take the top spot in the Central, and only one of the W. Sox and Twins can make the playoffs.

SoCal Pinstriper
09-07-06, 12:36 PM
First start moved up a day.


Liriano takes another step
The Twins are now eyeing a Sept. 13 return date -- one day earlier than previously thought -- for Francisco Liriano, who breezed through a three-inning simulated game Wednesday.
Liriano will make a minor-league rehab appearance Saturday, throwing about 40 to 45 pitches. Assuming that goes well, pitching coach Rick Anderson said Liriano should be ready to start four days later.
That would come at the Metrodome, against the Oakland Athletics.
Anderson wants to keep Liriano and Johan Santana separated in the rotation, and Santana is lined up to pitch Sept. 15 at Cleveland.
Liriano, who is on the disabled list because of a strained left elbow ligament, said his arm feels stronger than it has all season.
He threw 50 pitches in his simulated game, pitching to teammates.
By returning next week, Liriano will have time to make four starts before the season ends. He said the pressure of the pennant race shouldn't bother him.
http://www.startribune.com/509/story/660553.html

gdn
09-07-06, 12:40 PM
Good news. Unfortunately, I may be knocked out of the playoffs by then.

In Mo I Trust
09-07-06, 12:41 PM
Good news for my fantasy team, bad news for the Yankees.

Hitman23
09-07-06, 12:41 PM
Good news. Unfortunately, I may be knocked out of the playoffs by then.CBS reported 4 more starts with the first one having a 60 pitch cap. I really need him, and I need him to be what he was.

EnglishYanqui
09-07-06, 01:23 PM
CBS reported 4 more starts with the first one having a 60 pitch cap. I really need him, and I need him to be what he was.

If you had the chance, easy victory over Twins in PS for Yanks... or you win your Fantasy League?

Hitman23
09-07-06, 01:28 PM
If you had the chance, easy victory over Twins in PS for Yanks... or you win your Fantasy League?Well obviiously the Yanks come first. It's the downfalls of fantasy baseball though rooting for players that hurt your team. I root for David Ortiz and Pedro Martinez. You know how hard that is to do? :lol:

If it came down to Liriano vs the Yanks, it's a 1-0 victory for the Yankees, with that 1 run being unearned. Of course, Jeter and Abreu need to get on base during that game. Jeter can even steal a few. But he can't score on anything but an error.

:D

EnglishYanqui
09-07-06, 01:32 PM
But he can't score on anything but an error.

I'll be sure to let him know next time he's signing autographs.

chanman7483
09-07-06, 07:24 PM
Just in time for round 2....

Sam18
09-07-06, 07:28 PM
Good news. Unfortunately, I may be knocked out of the playoffs by then.

I've got my fingers crossed.

destiNY
09-07-06, 07:34 PM
I hope the Twins don't win the Wild Card if he comes back...

SoCal Pinstriper
09-11-06, 03:47 PM
Twins pitching coach Rick Anderson said when Francisco Liriano returns to the mound this week, he'll throw his slider as much as he did before he got a strained left elbow. "He'll go with what got him where he is (12-3, 2.19 earned-run average)," Anderson said. "And right now, because he's been exercising his shoulder, he's probably stronger than he was at the first of the year."
Liriano, 22, agreed he'll be throwing his slider, but maybe not as much as before. He said the exercises he has been doing to strength his shoulder have been with five-pound weights.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/columnists/15481847.htm

cmaff05
09-11-06, 03:58 PM
Let's hope that Liriano's slider isn't as filthy as it was earlier in the year. We don't want to see a fully loaded Liriano in the playoffs.

But in no means does this mean that I wish bad on him. I just hope that we don't see him in the playoffs. :D

Liquid Sky
09-12-06, 01:52 AM
Something worth keeping an eye on.......Liriano will start tomorrow vs. Oakland.

Twins pitcher Francisco Liriano was activated from the disabled list, and the team said he would start tomorrow against the As
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sports/baseball/12base.html

noneckwilliams
09-12-06, 07:24 AM
I'd rather play Chicago than Minnesota.

knickfan23
09-13-06, 01:43 PM
Liriano makes his return in Minnesota.

However, on a pitch to Kielty in the 3rd inning, Liriano felt pain in his elbow and was taken out of the game.

gdn
09-13-06, 01:44 PM
Oh mother of.... Shoot.

yankeebot
09-13-06, 01:44 PM
:( I hope it is nothing serious.

nydeano
09-13-06, 01:45 PM
Yeah, looks like Liriano may have thrown his last pitch this year.

Anyone concerned a litlle, that his injury was in any way like Mo's?

knickfan23
09-13-06, 01:45 PM
Oh mother of.... Shoot.

And you could tell the second it happened. He threw the pitch and you can see the grimace in his face as you could him favoring his elbow a bit.

gdn
09-13-06, 01:46 PM
I just dropped Smoltz to activate him. CRAP CRAP CRAP.

Now what am I going to do. CRAP.

(I really want to say f*ck)

Kluivert4Ever
09-13-06, 01:47 PM
Darn, this is probably it for him this year.

HidekiIrabu
09-13-06, 01:49 PM
I just dropped Smoltz to activate him. CRAP CRAP CRAP.

Now what am I going to do. CRAP.

(I really want to say f*ck)

I just dropped schilling for him too

Yanksagain
09-13-06, 01:51 PM
It looks like it was a shoulder problem. I'm betting he is done for the year.

Fan-In-Florida
09-13-06, 01:52 PM
And you could tell the second it happened. He threw the pitch and you can see the grimace in his face as you could him favoring his elbow a bit.

You hate for a player to leave the game and possibly for the season with an injury, but the Yanks would have a hard time hitting him in the playoffs.

knickfan23
09-13-06, 01:54 PM
You hate for a player to leave the game and possibly for the season with an injury, but the Yanks would have a hard time hitting him in the playoffs.

Yes they would have. But now, the Twins would be crazy to let him pitch again the rest of the season.

With no Liriano or Radke in that rotation, looks like well be seeing Matt Garza, Scott Baker and Carlos Silva in Games 2, 3, and 4. I'll take that.

DaYanks24
09-13-06, 01:54 PM
I needed him for my playoffs, but I'm glad we wont have to face him in the real playoffs. There is no way they bring him back this year.

knickfan23
09-13-06, 01:55 PM
It looks like it was a shoulder problem. I'm betting he is done for the year.

According to ESPN, they just mentioned that Liriano complained of pain in his elbow.

Workhorse
09-13-06, 01:55 PM
Damn, I really hope it's not serious. What a devastating turn for this talented kid.

Yankees1962
09-13-06, 01:56 PM
Yeah, looks like Liriano may have thrown his last pitch this year.

Anyone concerned a litlle, that his injury was in any way like Mo's?
I am very concerned about Mo's injury? I won't be relieved until he either has the MRI with dye test or is pitching regularly without any problems. Yankee fans need to be concerned and the Yankees have a way of trying to hide injuries that turn out worse later on.

DaYanks24
09-13-06, 01:56 PM
It seems that most young pitchers have arm troubles at some point in there careers now. This is why I'm glad the Yanks are treating Hughes with kid gloves.

metalboy15
09-13-06, 01:58 PM
more news from rotoworld.com:


Francisco Liriano left his start Wednesday with what the Twins are calling left elbow pain.

It probably doesn't matter whether it's elbow or the shoulder; as long as it's the arm, there's a good chance his season is over. Even though they've fared well without him so far, the Twins would be a lot threatening as a postseason opponent with Liriano out of the mix.

yankeebot
09-13-06, 01:59 PM
It seems that most young pitchers have arm troubles at some point in there careers now. This is why I'm glad the Yanks are treating Hughes with kid gloves. Yep. I hope everyone here that was complaining that they were not calling Phil up for the remainder of the season is taking note.

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 02:08 PM
Oh man, I feel so bad for him, I really do. It doesn't look like he is going to pitch again this season. I highly doubt he will be able to return and be ready for the postseason.

aeromac76
09-13-06, 02:08 PM
They are absolutely insane in Liriano throws another pitch this year..
On a better note, the road to the WS just got a lot easier..

Yankees1962
09-13-06, 02:13 PM
They are absolutely insane in Liriano throws another pitch this year..
On a better note, the road to the WS just got a lot easier..
We have our own elbow concerns that shouldn't be taken lightly.

cmaff05
09-13-06, 02:25 PM
Poor kid. He's got such a bright future in front of him, the Twins would be insane to let him throw another pitch this year. I feel very bad for him.

Snatch Catch
09-13-06, 02:26 PM
Yep. I hope everyone here that was complaining that they were not calling Phil up for the remainder of the season is taking note.


I'm not sure usage has much to do with this injury. I'd probably wager my money moreso on genetics when it comes to pitchers getting injured.

Here is Liriano's IP log for his career:

Year 1: 71
Year 2: 80
Year 3: Injured
Year 4: 156.2
Year 5: 191.1
Year 6: 119 (this year)

boo_427
09-13-06, 02:40 PM
Wonder if this gives Detroit some confidence?

From what I saw on mlb.tv, Liriano was cruising before the injury.

aeromac76
09-13-06, 02:43 PM
We have our own elbow concerns that shouldn't be taken lightly.

I assume you are talking about Mo, but Mo is more the forearm, not the elbow...
Not worried yet..

EnglishYanqui
09-13-06, 02:46 PM
Wonder if this gives Detroit some confidence?

From what I saw on mlb.tv, Liriano was cruising before the injury.

Detroit SHOULD have made the post season without this, but...

Word is its because of sliders. He was supposedly on a 15 slider limit. He'd only thrown a couple.. and was walking of the mound.

He is SO done for the year.

BigCheese
09-13-06, 02:49 PM
Wow, that's awful news; it always stinks to see so much talent go to waste from injury (*cough-cough* Wood & Prior *cough-cough*).

Ace pitchers are always wildly entertaining to watch, so long as it's not your team they're pitching against. I suppose it makes our job all the more easy now, though.

Pepper03
09-13-06, 03:01 PM
What a shame.

Bernie Inferno
09-13-06, 03:09 PM
I'm not sure usage has much to do with this injury. I'd probably wager my money moreso on genetics when it comes to pitchers getting injured.

Here is Liriano's IP log for his career:

Year 1: 71
Year 2: 80
Year 3: Injured
Year 4: 156.2
Year 5: 191.1
Year 6: 119 (this year)

That 191.1 last year seems like 15 too many.

EnglishYanqui
09-13-06, 03:16 PM
That 191.1 last year seems like 15 too many.

Reliable starters generally throw 200IP a year.

Some guys just don't have durable arms. Some do.

This might be merely a hiccup in Liriano's career. I guess it wasn't that odd a choice to bring him back now; he needs a few starts to tune up for the postseason. Its a certain no-brainers to shelve him for the year, now though.

It will take a full year to know what the story is with him.

P.S. Sorry to all the fantasy GM's out there. Not much you can do with that.

Hitman23
09-13-06, 03:17 PM
sh*t. this royally screws me. I was counting him for the final two weeks of fantasy. :mad:

cmaff05
09-13-06, 03:21 PM
What a relief effort by Matt Garza. His line doesn't look all that good, but he did a good job.

EnglishYanqui
09-13-06, 03:23 PM
What a relief effort by Matt Garza. His line doesn't look all that good, but he did a good job.

He's been worked over, and gotten very lucky against Thomas and Payton. Almost 100 thru 6.

spyglass
09-13-06, 03:30 PM
He's been worked over, and gotten very lucky against Thomas and Payton. Almost 100 thru 6.
He did get a bit lucky, but the way Dan Haren has been pitching, Garza really did do a great job to keep them at only 1 run. Morneau trying for second base and being thrown out by half a mile is possibly the biggest play of the game so far.

yankeebot
09-13-06, 03:42 PM
I'm not sure usage has much to do with this injury. I'd probably wager my money moreso on genetics when it comes to pitchers getting injured.

Here is Liriano's IP log for his career:

Year 1: 71
Year 2: 80
Year 3: Injured
Year 4: 156.2
Year 5: 191.1
Year 6: 119 (this year)
Thanks. Have his pitch counts increased? I would think that it would as he faces better hitters at different levels. Does that come into play at all?

ryanm1058123
09-13-06, 03:45 PM
this is no suprise. the only thing that kept liriano away from #1 overall prospect status was his injuries

Bob Saccomano
09-13-06, 04:34 PM
That's a big, big bummer for the Twins. It gives the Tigers and White Sox a better chance at the postseason, though. Had they gotten Liriano back healthy, I would have said that the Twins would win the Central.

Hildy910
09-13-06, 04:40 PM
Booo. This is a shame--I hate to see young'uns get hurt like that. And bummer for the Twins--I was enjoying their run.

Snatch Catch
09-13-06, 05:06 PM
Thanks. Have his pitch counts increased? I would think that it would as he faces better hitters at different levels. Does that come into play at all?


It definitely comes into play, but I don't know anywhere that logs his PC totals in the minors.

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 05:10 PM
Reliable starters generally throw 200IP a year.

Some guys just don't have durable arms. Some do.

This might be merely a hiccup in Liriano's career. I guess it wasn't that odd a choice to bring him back now; he needs a few starts to tune up for the postseason. Its a certain no-brainers to shelve him for the year, now though.

It will take a full year to know what the story is with him.

P.S. Sorry to all the fantasy GM's out there. Not much you can do with that.
I think the Giants basically knew all along what this guy was capable of and knew he would break down. I am sure they didn't expect him to have this kind of season anyway but I guess they knew his shoulder or elbow would give out sometime soon which is why they traded him to the Twins.

Yankees1962
09-13-06, 05:14 PM
I assume you are talking about Mo, but Mo is more the forearm, not the elbow...
Not worried yet..
Take a look at other elbow injuries this season with other pitchers and the pain started off in the forearm region.

Snatch Catch
09-13-06, 05:26 PM
I think the Giants basically knew all along what this guy was capable of and knew he would break down. I am sure they didn't expect him to have this kind of season anyway but I guess they knew his shoulder or elbow would give out sometime soon which is why they traded him to the Twins.


They traded him coming off an injury- they foolishly sold low on a lefty who may not have shown signs of what he became, but definitely wasn't a chump.

ieddyi
09-13-06, 05:27 PM
He has incredible stuff and w/ the lefties in our lineup I was really worried about facing santana and Liriano in a short series

Looking at the splits, though Matsui is the only one this year with bad splits v. lefties and thru his career he has handled lefties well

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 05:28 PM
They traded him coming off an injury- they foolishly sold low on a lefty who may not have shown signs of what he became, but definitely wasn't a chump.
Is it the same injury thats my question..Same thing goes for Cashman when they got rid of Pettite. According to the Yankees, they knew that Pettite was on the verge of having elbow problems in the near future, and he has spent most of his time in Houston on the DL. I just think that perhaps the Giants saw this coming as well

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 05:29 PM
Off topic - Garcia and Sheets are both pitching perfect games in the 7th I believe.

gdn
09-13-06, 05:41 PM
well, I just realized that I have Liriano in the league in which I got knocked out of the playoffs and am playing for 5th place. Screw it. I'm not going to worry so much :D

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 05:44 PM
Garcia just got Vlad to ground out on a 3-1 count in the 7th inning.. Perfect game through 7, onto the 8th.
Sheets gave up a single but than picked him off.. nuts

dpinzow
09-13-06, 05:48 PM
That's a big, big bummer for the Twins. It gives the Tigers and White Sox a better chance at the postseason, though. Had they gotten Liriano back healthy, I would have said that the Twins would win the Central.

It should give the White Sox a better chance to catch them on paper, but remember on August 8, the Twins were a half-game behind Chicago and 9.5 bahind Detroit.

They actually gained 8 games on Detroit and 3 games on the White Sox without Liriano.

Where this will hurt them is in postseason play, if they hold on to the wild card or pass Detroit.

Spiker101
09-13-06, 06:16 PM
I assume you are talking about Mo, but Mo is more the forearm, not the elbow...
Not worried yet..

Yeah, it's a muscular thing to the forearm, just below the elbow, though the problem is moving further down toward the wrist. Much less serious problem.

njfan75
09-13-06, 06:19 PM
It was such a shame to see him break down but also a relief as he could stand between us and #27.

dpinzow
09-13-06, 06:24 PM
Confirmed: Liriano done for the year (terrible for Twins fans):


MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Francisco Liriano has heard plenty about Cy Young during a spectacular rookie season.

Now that he is out for the rest of the season, another pitcher might be entering the conversation -- Tommy John.

Liriano's highly anticipated return to the Minnesota rotation came to a sudden halt because of elbow problems Wednesday and Dan Haren pitched eight shutout innings, leading the Oakland Athletics over the Twins 1-0.

"Obviously he won't be pitching again," manager Ron Gardenhire said. "Something is in there bothering and continuing to stop him. ... Obviously when he gets in game and puts a little extra torque in there, something is not right. We have to make sure we stop it and do what we have to do."

Pitching for the first time in more than a month, Liriano slumped off the mound in the third inning. Trainers and Gardenhire immediately rushed out to attend to the All-Star lefty and a hush fell over the crowd that had been so excited to see him back in action.

"The last two pitches I threw, I felt a pop and it really hurts," Liriano said.

Liriano walked slowly toward the dugout and fans gave him a standing ovation -- clearly, they were wondering whether they had seen the last of him this year.

The Twins, leading the AL wild-card race, announced later that he had pain in his left elbow.

He had an MRI exam after the game, and thoughts immediately turned to Tommy John surgery, a ligament-replacement procedure that typically keeps pitchers out for more than a year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260913109

gold23
09-13-06, 06:52 PM
If he did more damage by pitching today than was previously there....the Twins doctors are going to be in for some serious ripping. You protect that special of an arm over anything- pennant races be damned.

Yankees13
09-13-06, 06:55 PM
Our WS chances just skyrocketed...

nnysiny
09-13-06, 06:59 PM
that article is really making it look bad for Liriano. it would be a real shame if one of the most talented pitchers we'll ever see is forced to have surgery at 22 and could possibly never be the same again

yankeebot
09-13-06, 06:59 PM
Our WS chances just skyrocketed... I think I would have rather gone there through him.

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 07:02 PM
It is official - He is out for the season.. What a blow for the Twins.. I think they will make the playoffs anyway without him. The only thing is how effective will their pitching staff be in the playoffs

Bern baby Bern!
09-13-06, 07:06 PM
If he did more damage by pitching today than was previously there....the Twins doctors are going to be in for some serious ripping. You protect that special of an arm over anything- pennant races be damned.

I agree, I think they were thinking more of their playoff chances and what Liriano means to them now than his future. I feel bad, he could have been an unbelievable pitcher and it's sad to see such a young talented pitcher have to go through this now.

NYDCYankee
09-13-06, 08:05 PM
Somewhere Brian Sabean breathes a sigh of relief.

cupcollector99
09-13-06, 08:14 PM
I think someone in team management needs to be canned over this.. This is a young team that was rolling and they didn't really NEED him.. It would have been nice to have him back, but the risk was too high. Pathetic shortsightedness by Twins management.

EnglishYanqui
09-13-06, 08:27 PM
I think someone in team management needs to be canned over this.. This is a young team that was rolling and they didn't really NEED him.. It would have been nice to have him back, but the risk was too high. Pathetic shortsightedness by Twins management.

Hindsight is 20-20.

If they don't have Liriano.. with all respects to the Twins staff.. they don't have a great chance against the Yanks. Not with Radke so uncertain. He was supposedly throwing without pain. Just not hard sliders.

If they had delayed him.. 5.. 10 days.. how many tune up starts would he have had?

Consider he'd come in on a pitch count the first couple of times.

dpinzow
09-13-06, 10:38 PM
Somewhere Brian Sabean breathes a sigh of relief.

Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser were still part of the AJ P. deal, so it's still one of the worst deals in baseball history even when you take Liriano out of the equation.

Don't ever give that mangy mutt on WFAN an out on his boy Sabean. ;)

JDPNYY
09-13-06, 10:40 PM
This makes me thank the Yankee Organization even more for their handling of Phillip Hughes this season.

NYDCYankee
09-13-06, 11:57 PM
Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser were still part of the AJ P. deal, so it's still one of the worst deals in baseball history even when you take Liriano out of the equation.

Don't ever give that mangy mutt on WFAN an out on his boy Sabean. ;)

Well yeah, obvoiusly. But Liriano and his Hall of Fame stuff was what was hurting Sabean the most.

And I would never give the Puppy an out. :)

Vin
09-14-06, 12:02 AM
This is a shortsighted move by the Twins mgmt. Even the Yanks had Pavano pitch in the minors when he got back from the DL. Now they're paying for it

EnglishYanqui
09-14-06, 12:13 AM
Brently.. admittedly not a doctor :) said if its a ligament injury it could be 18-24 months :eek:

dpinzow
09-14-06, 12:22 AM
Speculation is that Liriano tore his ulnar collateral ligament, which is one of the most dreaded injuries for a pitcher. Below is a picture of the elbow:

http://briananderson.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/ei_0153.jpg

The extent of the injury is determined by how much of the ligament is torn. It could be a partial ligament tear of one of the anterior, intermediate, or posterior bands, or it could be a combination of two or even all three. A complete tear of all three bands means you won't see Liriano at all in 2007 and perhaps some part of 2008.

The reason why this injury is so devastating is because the ulnar collateral ligament bands connect the humerus (bone which supports the bicep/tricep muscles), the ulna and the radius (the bones in the forearm) near the elbow joint. The joint loses stability without this tissue.

EnglishYanqui
09-14-06, 12:33 AM
A popping noise from your shoulder or elbow, must be one of the most disturbing things you could possibly hear.

In Mo I Trust
09-14-06, 06:43 AM
This is a shortsighted move by the Twins mgmt. Even the Yanks had Pavano pitch in the minors when he got back from the DL. Now they're paying for it

Liriano had a rehab start. It is a tough call, if he feels fine and your doctors say he is good to go, what are you supposed to do?

Snatch Catch
09-14-06, 08:14 AM
Liriano had a rehab start. It is a tough call, if he feels fine and your doctors say he is good to go, what are you supposed to do?

Wait a few months so that he tears it in ST of next year.

Snatch Catch
09-14-06, 08:23 AM
Is it the same injury thats my question..Same thing goes for Cashman when they got rid of Pettite. According to the Yankees, they knew that Pettite was on the verge of having elbow problems in the near future, and he has spent most of his time in Houston on the DL. I just think that perhaps the Giants saw this coming as well


It's the same injury, but what the Giants foresaw was him never being able to recover fully from the initial injury, and he did (and then some).

35Knucklecurve
09-14-06, 10:22 AM
A popping noise from your shoulder or elbow, must be one of the most disturbing things you could possibly hear.
Jeff Brantley made a comment very similiar to yours last night during Baseball Tonight. He estimated that Liriano could miss all of 2007 and part of 2008, depending on the extent of the tear.

His mechanics worry me also. The torque he has to put on his arm to throw that slider is stressful enough, but he seems to be all over the place after he releases the ball. Hopefully, somebody will be able to refine it now that there's going to be plenty of time. It's so sad to see rare talent like his come to a screeching halt.

Bob Saccomano
09-14-06, 11:12 AM
Jeff Brantley made a comment very similiar to yours last night during Baseball Tonight. He estimated that Liriano could miss all of 2007 and part of 2008, depending on the extent of the tear.

His mechanics worry me also. The torque he has to put on his arm to throw that slider is stressful enough, but he seems to be all over the place after he releases the ball. Hopefully, somebody will be able to refine it now that there's going to be plenty of time. It's so sad to see rare talent like his come to a screeching halt.

Wow, is it seriously that long? :eek: I had no idea...I was thinking mid-2007 return latest.

EnglishYanqui
09-14-06, 12:10 PM
Wow, is it seriously that long? :eek: I had no idea...I was thinking mid-2007 return latest.

A popping noise is almost certainly a sign of damage. To me, its improbable that just physical therapy is going to fix that, and thats the only way he's "healthy" in time to rehab for mid 07.

However.. we'll know facts when they do an MRI.

If I were a betting man, I'd be betting on structural damage.

aeromac76
09-14-06, 12:13 PM
Wow, is it seriously that long? :eek: I had no idea...I was thinking mid-2007 return latest.

Yeah it will be..
If he truly has the UCL tear, even if he had surgery today and it went perfectly, you don't even pick up a ball sometimes for 12 months. It is likely Liriano would not even throw a ball even 15-20 feet until Sept/Oct of 2007. And that is the best case.. After that rehab and hard work could have him ready for the 2008 season. Look at Octavio Dotel. He has TJ surgery in May of 05, and did not return to pitch for us until August of this year. That was 14-15 months. And by all accounts, Dotel was one of the more remarkable recoveries from this injury and subsequent surgery. And even now, you can see Dotel is not nearly a shadow of what he was, it will be next year before he is back to being the Dotel we saw presurgery. The typical time frame is 18-24 months...

The only good thing for him is this, he is still very young and once the surgery is performed and recovery complete, many pitchers report increased arm strength and velocity and almost never is there a recurrence of the injury. It has even been said that some pitchers early on in their careers will get the surgery done at the slightest twinge of pain just to make sure they get better and never have to deal with that probl;em again, and gain strength..

So no need to lose heart. Lirinao just lost the rest of 2006 and likely 2007. But he still has a bright future and if the Twins don't want him, I am sure the Yankees would gladly pay for him to rehab!!

Bob Saccomano
09-14-06, 12:19 PM
...So no need to lose heart. Lirinao just lost the rest of 2006 and likely 2007. But he still has a bright future and if the Twins don't want him, I am sure the Yankees would gladly pay for him to rehab!!

:lol: Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. Thanks for the informative post :).

EnglishYanqui
09-14-06, 04:09 PM
Minnesota Star Trib Report: Liriano's MRI shows no new structural damage (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2587796)


Minnesota Twins fans can relax a little bit for the moment. Francisco Liriano's MRI shows no new structural damage to his left elbow, two sources told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

Liriano's MRI results were very similar to the results from early August, which showed a mild tear of his ulnar collateral ligament, the paper reported.

While its theoretically good news, I'm more than a little skeptical. If the ligaments in the arm aren't a problem, why did he come out of the game, proving his elbow was obviously wrong.

Not finding an obvious cause might mean he's unsuited to throw "that" slider.

It raises as many questions as it answers IMO.

dpinzow
09-14-06, 04:10 PM
Some semi-good news for Liriano: His elbow doesn't look to be completely torn up.

However, somebody in the Twins organization is getting a pink slip for not shutting Liriano down for the year in August if the initial MRI showed a slight tear in the ligament.

dpinzow
09-14-06, 04:10 PM
Minnesota Star Trib Report: Liriano's MRI shows no new structural damage (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2587796)



While its theoretically good news, I'm more than a little skeptical. If the ligaments in the arm aren't a problem, why did he come out of the game, after his elbow was obviously wrong.

Not finding an obvious cause might mean he's unsuited to throw "that" slider.

It raises as many questions as it answers IMO.


Damn, we just posted the exact same thing :eek:

EnglishYanqui
09-14-06, 04:12 PM
Damn, we just posted the exact same thing :eek:

GMTA? or something ;)

EnglishYanqui
09-15-06, 11:49 PM
Interesting link from SOSH to a small message board game thread, of a parent (not confirmed.. but assumed.. ) saying that the pitcher had inhereted "loose joints" from them.. and wondered if a medical pro on SOSH could explain if that could have contributed.

Link Here (http://p209.ezboard.com/fredsoxprospects57174frm2.showMessageRange?topicID=2498.topic&start=21&stop=29). Post 5

AlbanyColonieYankee
09-16-06, 02:23 AM
This is a shortsighted move by the Twins mgmt. Even the Yanks had Pavano pitch in the minors when he got back from the DL. Now they're paying for it

Liriano did pitch in the minors, and he pitched well and had no problems.

I'm sure everyone is looking to place the blame somewhere but sometimes stuff just happens.

In any event, the Twins look a lot less scary in a short series now than they did, but they are still a tough team to hang in the way they have done.