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View Full Version : At Least 200 Innings Pitched and 1 Save In A Season- Rarely Done



EvanJ
07-31-06, 01:21 PM
Chien-Ming Wang is on pace to this in 2006.
In 2003 Tim Wakefield was the last pitcher to do this with 202 1/3 innings and 1 save. Before Wakefield it was last done in 1996.

Kluivert4Ever
08-01-06, 11:22 PM
Wang has been a godsend to this bullpen.

AbreuTheMan
08-02-06, 06:57 PM
Chien-Ming Wang is on pace to this in 2006.
In 2003 Tim Wakefield was the last pitcher to do this with 202 1/3 innings and 1 save. Before Wakefield it was last done in 1996. Not sure what the purpose of this thread/stat is? Your stat is somewhat arbitrary and relatively meaningless, no? It's been done a lot in the past... all it means is a starter was needed out of the bullpen once during the season. So what?

KLJ
08-03-06, 10:17 AM
one of the most amazing seasons of all time (in my opinion) was mike marshall in 1974. 208.3 ip with no starts... 21 saves..

Clive
08-04-06, 09:51 AM
one of the most amazing seasons of all time (in my opinion) was mike marshall in 1974. 208.3 ip with no starts... 21 saves..Holy cow. :eek:

...and that was after a 179 inning season (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marshmi01.shtml) too!

JeffWeaverFan
08-06-06, 01:35 AM
Speaking of Wang from a sabermetric standpoint, is anyone else astonished with the numbers he has given his K/9 and K/BB?

I'm not sure if I should be astonished or worried about it... Could he be THE exception to the rule? Or will this "luck" run out?

Fact is, there is no pitcher in the history of baseball that has had continued success with a K/9 of 2.77 and K/BB of 1.23, like he has this year. Of course, he is unique in that he gets so many easy ground balls and so many DP's... But, are we worried that in the future, some of those hard hit balls are not right at the fielders? Will he have a season where he just gets very unlucky? Is he just lucky right now?

These are legit questions - I have no idea. From watching him, I like his stuff and all that, but his K/9 is troublesome. Saying that, he has demeanor and "moxie" which is a point that should be made. He won't melt down if things don't go his way (like my guy Jeff Weaver used to).

Also, and maybe this is the best argument that he is the exception to the rule, has anyone seen a guy throw a 96 MPH sinker like that? I can't think of anyone else that throws a pitch like that...

conkermaniac
08-06-06, 09:17 AM
One thing I noticed about the hitters who have great career stats against Wang: they hit the ball right on the screws. It's not so much that they hit home runs, but they manage to consistently scorch line drives through the infield. That's a worrisome observation. Once people start to figure out how much that pitch drops, he won't be able to get ground balls. His slider is not a strong enough pitch to keep batters from sitting on the sinker. If he manages to refine his slider (maybe he should talk to Farnsworth), I can easily see him being the next Kevin Brown (not the Yankee version, but the Marlins and Dodgers version).

nnysiny
08-06-06, 01:08 PM
one of the most amazing seasons of all time (in my opinion) was mike marshall in 1974. 208.3 ip with no starts... 21 saves..

another little tidbit about that season...Marshall appeared in 106 games that season, and the team's started threw a combined 33 games. Marshall appareared in 82% games that weren't a CG

Dave Visbeck
08-29-06, 05:55 AM
Chien-Ming Wang is on pace to this in 2006.
In 2003 Tim Wakefield was the last pitcher to do this with 202 1/3 innings and 1 save. Before Wakefield it was last done in 1996.

I believe saves became an official stat in 1969. Since then ... in a Yankee perspective ... Shane Rawley might of been the last Yankee to do it with 1 save in 1983 - 238.1 innings pitched. Before that, Ron Guidry did it three times with the Yankees.

Since 1969, Fritz Peterson has had the most innings pitched while also having a save ... which happened back in the 1971 season - 270.0 innings pitched for the Yankees that year.

However, before the 1969 season, many Yankee pitchers have accomplished it. What follows is an example of just some of the guys that had 200+ innings pitched in a season while having at least 1 save:

History shows that Whitey Ford accomplished it 8 times in his Yankee career.

Alley Reynolds did it every time he had pitched 200+ innings in a season with the Yankees ... that being 6 consecutive times beginning in 1947 and ending in the1952 season. During those 6 seasons when Reynolds wasn't making a start for the Yankees ... in the other 42 other games he pitched ... he had 21 saves in the 33 games he finished for the Yankees.

In the last season of the six-year stretch, Alley was called upon to pitch in 35 games total - with 29 of them being for a start. He pitched 244.1 innings total in 1952. There was something that was kind of startling for those 6 games in which he did not start ... with the starting thing being that every one of those 6 games were pitched for saves! He also pitched a league-leading 6 shut-outs that season. Reynolds also led the league in strikeouts, with 160, and had a league-leading ERA of 2.06.

Alley Reynolds also pitched in 5 different World Series in those 200+ inning seasons he had with at least one save ... having 12 games total pitched in those five World Series. He started 8 times and completed 5 of those games, getting 2 shut-outs. In the other 4 games he pitched, all four games in a different World Series year ... Reynolds had 3 saves!

Taking the innings pitched even further, say 300+ innings with at least one save, it has been done by one Yankee pitcher two times. Carl Mays did it the first time in 1920 - when he had 2 saves in 312.0 innings pitched. He did this while winning 26 games and having a league-leading 6 shutouts.

The following season, Mays had the most innings ever pitched in a season by any Yankee pitcher in history - where that same pitcher also got credited with at least 1 save. When Mays had finished the 1921 season of play with 38 starts, he had a league-leading 7 saves total ... in his league-leading 336.2 inning's pitched ... to go along with his league-leading 27 wins ... while also appearing in a league-leading 49 games! :NY: :scared:

hardrain
08-29-06, 11:28 PM
Speaking of Wang from a sabermetric standpoint, is anyone else astonished with the numbers he has given his K/9 and K/BB?

I'm not sure if I should be astonished or worried about it... Could he be THE exception to the rule? Or will this "luck" run out?

Fact is, there is no pitcher in the history of baseball that has had continued success with a K/9 of 2.77 and K/BB of 1.23, like he has this year. Of course, he is unique in that he gets so many easy ground balls and so many DP's... But, are we worried that in the future, some of those hard hit balls are not right at the fielders? Will he have a season where he just gets very unlucky? Is he just lucky right now?

These are legit questions - I have no idea. From watching him, I like his stuff and all that, but his K/9 is troublesome. Saying that, he has demeanor and "moxie" which is a point that should be made. He won't melt down if things don't go his way (like my guy Jeff Weaver used to).

Also, and maybe this is the best argument that he is the exception to the rule, has anyone seen a guy throw a 96 MPH sinker like that? I can't think of anyone else that throws a pitch like that...

Ya, I worry about this all the time. I can only hope Wang is the exception to the rule here. I know the posters on baseball think factory are waiting for him to implode since he defies conventional saber analysis.

destiNY
08-30-06, 12:16 PM
Ya, I worry about this all the time. I can only hope Wang is the exception to the rule here. I know the posters on baseball think factory are waiting for him to implode since he defies conventional saber analysis.

I think he can K guys if he chose the right pitch sequence. The yanks just simply want him to throw sinkers and he does which leads to the low k rates. That 96 mph sinker is nuts.

ChrisV82
09-18-06, 03:13 AM
Fact is, there is no pitcher in the history of baseball that has had continued success with a K/9 of 2.77 and K/BB of 1.23, like he has this year.

I was searching the web to find some sinkerball pitchers stats, and I came across this blog that asks just that question - http://ndai.blogspot.com/2006/08/great-sinkers-of-our-time.html

By the way, there have been a lot of good pitchers with similar K/9 and K/BB numbers. You know when they played? The late 1800's.