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View Full Version : AL All-Stars- Closers: ESPN's Phil Rodgers Snubs Rivera



EvanJ
06-13-06, 03:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2481290 says:

"Closers
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>AL: Jonathan Papelbon (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7614), Red Sox.... Also in the picture: Bobby Jenks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7285), B.J. Ryan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6294) and Akinori Otsuka (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7252)."

I say: Among the 11 AL closers with at least 10 saves, Rivera is third in ERA to Papelbon and Ryan, and Rivera's ERA is most of a run better than Jenks and Otsuka. I agree that Papelbon is the best, but it is inexcusable not to mention Rivera.
I edited the comments about Papelbon out of the quote to not post the whole paragraph from the article. I put an extra letter in the author's name.

Big Stein's Calzones
06-13-06, 03:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2481290 says:

"Closers
<table align="right" border="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="2"></td><td width="65"></td></tr><tr><td width="2"></td><td width="65"></td></tr></tbody></table>AL: Jonathan Papelbon (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7614), Red Sox.... Also in the picture: Bobby Jenks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7285), B.J. Ryan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6294) and Akinori Otsuka (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7252)."

I say: Among the 11 AL closers with at least 10 saves, Rivera is third in ERA to Papelbon and Ryan, and Rivera's ERA is most of a run better than Jenks and Otsuka. I agree that Papelbon is the best, but it is inexcusable not to mention Rivera.
This is edited to not post the whole paragraph from the article.

:: yawn :: Who cares?

RhodyYanksFan
06-13-06, 03:10 PM
At this point in his career do you really think Mo cares about making the All-Star team...much less what Phil Rodgers has to say about him?

tdel23
06-13-06, 03:13 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.

Hitman23
06-13-06, 03:16 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.:-werd-:

EvanJ
06-13-06, 03:17 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/ballot?event_id=2218 is even worse. They list five AL closers as choices and don't include Rivera.

mjdlight
06-13-06, 03:17 PM
Phil who?

LuckyLopez
06-13-06, 03:23 PM
Jenks has 18 saves for 2nd in the AL which is certainly going to draw attention. Otsuka came into the closing job later and has 7 holds to go with his 11 saves. Both guys have struck out more in less innings that Mo. And Mo's carrying a 3-3 record compared to Otsuka's 2-2 and Jenks' 2-1. I'd guess that's the big thing. 3 losses by a closer before the All Star break is a bad stat.

Which is not to say that I'm arguing them over Rivera (although I might argue Jenks over Mo) but it certainly seems defendable. Less than inexcusable.

Big Stein's Calzones
06-13-06, 03:25 PM
Just wanted to add that he's 8th in the Rolaids Relief Standings in the AL...

http://www.rolaidsreliefman.com/

gold23
06-13-06, 03:25 PM
Papelbon and Ryan are clearly having better years than Mo. Jenks is likely as well, thoguh Otsuka has lost two games on multiple run homers. At this time, Mo doesn't deserve to be on the AS team. Not sure many care. And I'm 100% certain that every manager in the majors would love Rivera as his closer.

Jdkush10
06-13-06, 03:35 PM
While I'd like to have Rivera on the All-Star team just because it adds one more Yankee on the roster, I'd much rather him have those days off to get some much needed R&R.

38Special
06-13-06, 03:38 PM
jesus guys let's not look like ridiculous homers. mo hasnt had an amazing year and there are plenty better candidates

The Dynasty
06-13-06, 03:42 PM
No offense, but I'd put Paps as the top closer, also. Let's not get ridiculous, now.

Mattpat11
06-13-06, 03:42 PM
jesus guys let's not look like ridiculous homers. mo hasnt had an amazing year and there are plenty better candidates LIES, ALL OF THEM

This is a direct slight against the Yankees and everything we stand for. In fact, its an attack aaginst all of us! Lets get indignant and site any and all instances of perceived anti-Yankee bias.

Yankees-26rings
06-13-06, 03:43 PM
The guys who he put ahead of him are more deserving this season then Rivera. I mean Papelbon and Ryan both have ridicoulous ERA and Jenks has been very good as well.

Besides that is one less game that will be put on Rivera's arm this season.

ojo
06-13-06, 03:54 PM
i hope the game goes to extra frames and papelbon excitedly throws four shutout innings to get the win.

arm problems later that month revealed that....

(o;

Hitman23
06-13-06, 03:57 PM
LIES, ALL OF THEM

This is a direct slight against the Yankees and everything we stand for. In fact, its an attack aaginst all of us! Lets get indignant and site any and all instances of perceived anti-Yankee bias.:roflmao:

Sarcasm is so much more fun then arguing.

jlw1980
06-13-06, 03:58 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.

But didn't you know...it counts now!!!! ;)

I totally agree with you. :)

CoyoteYankee
06-13-06, 04:00 PM
The All-Star selections are supposed to be made based on performance of the players THIS YEAR! If this was an all-time closer list then I would definitely consider that leaving Mo off as a "snub". This year, so far, it's justified.

Mark19
06-13-06, 04:02 PM
Mo doesn't need to waste pitches proving himself at an exhibition. He has four rings and a sub-1 postseason ERA to show the world how great he is.

Papelbon is following Gagne and Lidge as the closer who looks amazing for a time and causes sports writers to make absurd statements.

38Special
06-13-06, 04:02 PM
I'd have more of a problem with the Cano snub for Jose Lopez. Lopez was hot for a couple of days but he's got a .315 OBP

Kulish29
06-13-06, 04:06 PM
BFD. So Mo doesnt make the AS Team this year. Doesnt mean he's not getting into Cooperstown when he's done.

I'd prefer he doesnt go and rests. The AS Game is a crock anyway.

BroadwayBomber55
06-13-06, 04:08 PM
I also perfer Mo to stay home during the All-Star break, get rest, and prepare for October.

KevinBaseball
06-13-06, 04:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2481290 says:

"Closers
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>AL: Jonathan Papelbon (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7614), Red Sox.... Also in the picture: Bobby Jenks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7285), B.J. Ryan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6294) and Akinori Otsuka (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7252)."

I say: Among the 11 AL closers with at least 10 saves, Rivera is third in ERA to Papelbon and Ryan, and Rivera's ERA is most of a run better than Jenks and Otsuka. I agree that Papelbon is the best, but it is inexcusable not to mention Rivera.
I edited the comments about Papelbon out of the quote to not post the whole paragraph from the article. I put an extra letter in the author's name.

How dare you post about the all-star game on NYY Fans. Don't you know that some people here think its meaningless, my God man what has gotten into you, why is it that you wish injuries upon Yankees? Next thing you know you will actually be watching the game, and possibly enjoying it you animal.

Hitman23
06-13-06, 04:11 PM
How dare you post about the all-star game on NYY Fans. Don't you know that some people here think its meaningless, my God man what has gotten into you, why is it that you wish injuries upon Yankees? Next thing you know you will actually be watching the game, and possibly enjoying it you animal.It's not about that. It's the arguement about whether or not Mo should be the starter.

The Dynasty
06-13-06, 04:14 PM
BFD. So Mo doesnt make the AS Team this year. Doesnt mean he's not getting into Cooperstown when he's done.

I'd prefer he doesnt go and rests. The AS Game is a crock anyway.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I've actually enjoyed the All-Star games the past few years (ever since the Milwaukee All-Star Break)

swityak11
06-13-06, 04:29 PM
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I've actually enjoyed the All-Star games the past few years (ever since the Milwaukee All-Star Break)I also enjoy All Star games but that doesn't mean I want as many Yankees on the team as possible. Mo isn't having a good enough season in comparison to other players to justify the selection. Papelbon, Ryan, and Jenks deserve it more this year.

Mattpat11
06-13-06, 04:32 PM
How dare you post about the all-star game on NYY Fans. Don't you know that some people here think its meaningless, my God man what has gotten into you, why is it that you wish injuries upon Yankees? Next thing you know you will actually be watching the game, and possibly enjoying it you animal. No one's saying that you can't watch the allstar game or talk about it. People are saying its stupid to get offended or indignant over the ESPN Top five list or whatever the hell this is. I'm really beginning to think people go out of their way to find stupid minor things to get offended over.

I mean yeah, thats how the real world works, but baseball was a little break from that for a while.

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-13-06, 04:32 PM
At this point in his career do you really think Mo cares about making the All-Star team...much less what Phil Rodgers has to say about him?

word, let pappelbon get the spot and MO gets a ring

jlw1980
06-13-06, 04:40 PM
It's not about that. It's the arguement about whether or not Mo should be the starter.

Mo's not a starter. Thought you knew that. :P

noneckwilliams
06-13-06, 04:45 PM
Papelbon deserves the accolades - hopefully he'll be forced to go 3 ins.

Mo needs then rest.

FromPagstoRiches
06-13-06, 04:56 PM
Seeing who the AL manager is in this year's game, I'd say the chances are slim to none that Mo gets the nod. Papal is a lock, but Jenks is going. The only personal stat that matters for a closer in an All-Star game is getting the save. And Jenks will be That Guy should the situation arise. So let him sit home for 3 days, the guy could probably use it.

RIYankee23
06-13-06, 05:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2481290 says:

"Closers
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>AL: Jonathan Papelbon (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7614), Red Sox.... Also in the picture: Bobby Jenks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7285), B.J. Ryan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6294) and Akinori Otsuka (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7252)."

I say: Among the 11 AL closers with at least 10 saves, Rivera is third in ERA to Papelbon and Ryan, and Rivera's ERA is most of a run better than Jenks and Otsuka. I agree that Papelbon is the best, but it is inexcusable not to mention Rivera.
I edited the comments about Papelbon out of the quote to not post the whole paragraph from the article. I put an extra letter in the author's name.

No big surprise. The media is full of idiots and morons who hate the Yankees.

You could combine all of those guys and they still wouldn't be better than Mo. I know Papelbon is having an amazing year, he deserves to be the first closer chosen, but none of those other guys deserve it other Mo. Also, Papelbon is still nowhere near as good as Mo. Let's see what happens when the league starts facing him more, gets more used to him, and let's see how well he responds when it matters most in September and October (if his team gets there).

stephen_nh
06-13-06, 05:16 PM
I know Papelbon is having an amazing year, he deserves to be the first closer chosen, but none of those other guys deserve it other Mo.

You might want to take a good, hard look at the season B.J. Ryan is having.

CoyoteYankee
06-13-06, 05:27 PM
No big surprise. The media is full of idiots and morons who hate the Yankees.

You could combine all of those guys and they still wouldn't be better than Mo. I know Papelbon is having an amazing year, he deserves to be the first closer chosen, but none of those other guys deserve it other Mo. Also, Papelbon is still nowhere near as good as Mo. Let's see what happens when the league starts facing him more, gets more used to him, and let's see how well he responds when it matters most in September and October (if his team gets there).

The question isn't "which of these closers is better than Mo?" The question is "Which of these closers is having a better year than Mo so far?" And Rodgers answer is okay by me.

Euclis
06-13-06, 05:41 PM
No big surprise. The media is full of idiots and morons who hate the Yankees.

You could combine all of those guys and they still wouldn't be better than Mo. I know Papelbon is having an amazing year, he deserves to be the first closer chosen, but none of those other guys deserve it other Mo. Also, Papelbon is still nowhere near as good as Mo. Let's see what happens when the league starts facing him more, gets more used to him, and let's see how well he responds when it matters most in September and October (if his team gets there).

Aside from what CoyoteYankee said, I have this to add:
Papelbon September/October 2005: 1.20 era, 15/5 k/bb, 10 h in 15 ip
Papelbon 2005 postseason: 0.00 era, 2/0 k/bb, 2 h in 4 ip

Seems to me that he responded pretty well when it counted last year, and he seems quite a bit better this year.

noneckwilliams
06-13-06, 06:04 PM
Aside from what CoyoteYankee said, I have this to add:
Papelbon September/October 2005: 1.20 era, 15/5 k/bb, 10 h in 15 ip
Papelbon 2005 postseason: 0.00 era, 2/0 k/bb, 2 h in 4 ip

Seems to me that he responded pretty well when it counted last year, and he seems quite a bit better this year.

He's got nowhere to go but down - hopefully.

Mattpat11
06-13-06, 06:25 PM
No big surprise. The media is full of idiots and morons who hate the Yankees.

I used to have this great picture of Chris Jericho holding up a conspiracy victim sign. I wish I still had it.

DontHateOnNumber2
06-13-06, 08:01 PM
Rivera could care less. He could spend time with his family during the break, while Papelbon, or anyone else is out there sweating it out, possibly risking injury on a game that'll probably wind up being a blowout anyways. Mariano Rivera chooses a World Series ring over All-Star Game appearance. Guaranteed of course.

YankeePride1967
06-13-06, 08:09 PM
When it comes to the All Star game, I hope the fewest possible Yankees make it. I think it's more beneficial for the players to rest, especially pitchers, than to play in that game. The season is a long one and those 4 days away from it would be beneficial.

xie
06-13-06, 09:06 PM
Maybe it has to do with the 6 Yankees currently set to start in the field. :o

I don't think any Yankees have a chance of getting picked by Ozzie considering how many of them will start.

SheffRocks11
06-13-06, 09:09 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.

me too...

flymick24
06-13-06, 09:54 PM
Bfd...

WebsterMulligan
06-13-06, 09:57 PM
Papelbon truely deserves it, this year. He's been lights out, all season long.

He needs to keep doing it for the next ten years, to be compared to Mo.

In Mo I Trust
06-13-06, 10:15 PM
This is fine, I'd rather Mo rest.

GoYanks
06-14-06, 01:59 PM
No big surprise. The media is full of idiots and morons who hate the Yankees.

You could combine all of those guys and they still wouldn't be better than Mo. I know Papelbon is having an amazing year, he deserves to be the first closer chosen, but none of those other guys deserve it other Mo. Also, Papelbon is still nowhere near as good as Mo. Let's see what happens when the league starts facing him more, gets more used to him, and let's see how well he responds when it matters most in September and October (if his team gets there). [emphasis added by GoYanks]

Ditto. I'm all for Mo resting (actually, the whole team resting!) and Papelbon going extra innings in the All Star game.

And stephen_nh, you're right, BJ Ryan with 15 saves, 1 W, and a 0.61 ERA shouldn't be ignored.

yankeesnumber1
06-14-06, 02:09 PM
We all love Mo, this hasn't been his year. He is still pitching very well, but has had a couple shaky sessions.

Papelbon definitely looks solid right now.

parkerstrong
06-14-06, 03:38 PM
The only problem with that vote is they have Chris Ray as an option over Mo....and Ray isnt better.

Tifoso
06-14-06, 03:41 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.

Yup. I have watched one AS game. Ever. :snooze:

EvanJ
06-14-06, 03:42 PM
In Rivera's last ten games (starting with a win over the Mets a game after he got a loss to the Mets), here are Rivera's numbers:
2-0 record
5 saves in 5 chances
14 1/3 innings pitched
6 hits
0 runs
0 walks
13 strikeouts
ERA down from 3.38 to 1.91 during that time.
Here are Papelbon's last 10 games:
1-0
6 saves in 7 chances
11 innings pitched
6 hits
0 runs
1 walk
14 strikeouts
ERA down from 0.42 to 0.28 during that time.
Papelbon has more strikeouts per inning although both pitchers have a lot of strikeouts during that time. Papelbon has allowed as many hits as Rivera in fewer innings and Papelbon has the only blown save for either of them (albeit an inherited runner scoring to tie the game). I'm sure most or all managers would love to have their closer pitch as well in his last ten games as both Papelbon and Rivera have.
Out of his ten years as a closer (1997-2006), Rivera's current ERA ranks sixth among the ten seasons and is barely behind fifth so it is near his median. Rivera's mean ERA 1997-2006 is 2.03 so his ERA this season is actually better than his mean over that span.

Grape Ape
06-14-06, 04:07 PM
All I care is that Mo throws like he did last night in Minny. If he does, he's still the best out there, and we have no worries in that department.

aeromac76
06-14-06, 04:38 PM
Tell you what, if it were up to me, let everyone else go and let me boys have three days to relax and get ready for the push..
Don't care about the ASG and never have..

ericns1
06-14-06, 04:41 PM
Phil who - another one of ESPN's idiot columnists

Jete&Tino42
06-14-06, 04:51 PM
I'd rather Mo stay home and get the 3 days off then play in a meaningless exhibiton game.

Exactly.