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RhodeyYankee2638
12-21-05, 12:13 AM
Its a way of saying "I don't need you to be the 14th person to tell me this." And, furthermore, as I've pointed out, there is nothing about steroid speculation in the community standards. Look for yourself. (http://www.nyyfans.com/communityStandards.php)

I would say accusing a player of taking steroids is player bashing. PM Jim though, i'm sure he'd back you up

JonSnow
12-21-05, 12:14 AM
Hopefully. And thats still probably the worst way to evaluate moves. If you signed a rock to a $3mil/year deal, it would, literally, provide better value than Kevin Brown did last year. Was it a good signing?

Yep. At least the rock couldn't get injured.

NYYBombshell
12-21-05, 12:14 AM
Very good! I'm impressed.


I'm finally using that college degree I just got.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 12:14 AM
All I know is that I'm SO getting my friend's Damon Red Sox T-Shirt...

gdn
12-21-05, 12:15 AM
I'm finally using that college degree I just got.I wasn't referring to your use of the word "behoove", actually. I will say that the degree has tempered you somewhat :)

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:15 AM
Let's see. Bubba or Damon. Bubba or Damon. Damon or NYYFans wishlist of 30 players to play CF, with 28 of the threads being closed because it wasn't happening.

hmmmm. Tough choices.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-21-05, 12:16 AM
God Bless the moderators during this holiday season

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:17 AM
The Yanks will still get much more value out him in the last two seasons, as opposed to what they got out of Kevin Brown.

I would have only gone three years for Damon, but I cannot complain about this move.
The Yankees would get more out of me for $1 million a season than we got out of Kevin Brown. I mean, getting more than we did out of KB doesn't really mean much.

Stating that you would have only gone 3 years with Damon is the point. I would have also, but we would never have gotten Damon for 3 years which is what I wanted.

People were very upset that we apparently offered him 5/53. Well, we ended up giving him 4/52. $13 million a season is way too much for a 32 year old on the decline that is not that great of an offensive player.

He is a slightly above average offensive player and the fact that he can leadoff does nothing for us since we already had the best leadoff hitter in the game in Derek Jeter. His defense is average at best and will get worse and worse. Did we need a CFer? Hell yes. Could we have had a cheaper option that would have been better in the long run? You betchya. Jacque Jones just signed a 3/$16 deal with the Cubs. I would have loved that deal compared to Damon's.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 12:17 AM
Its a way of saying "I don't need you to be the 14th person to tell me this." And, furthermore, as I've pointed out, there is nothing about steroid speculation in the community standards. Look for yourself. (http://www.nyyfans.com/communityStandards.php)

You haven't been around too long, so maybe this will help:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=80386&highlight=steroid+speculation

EDIT: Well, too late. Looks like you got ROed.

WebsterMulligan
12-21-05, 12:17 AM
Hopefully. And thats still probably the worst way to evaluate moves. If you signed a rock to a $3mil/year deal, it would, literally, provide better value than Kevin Brown did last year. Was it a good signing?

Kevin Brown? Very bad deal. it only compounded a previous bad deal.

Is signing Damon a good deal? I think were going to find out.

It could have been worse. The Yanks could have signed him for 5-7 years.

ShaneTravis
12-21-05, 12:17 AM
Oh, come on! Why all the negatives? Damon is a true lead-off hitter and batting from the left side is a natural for the Stadium. Besides this does two things - gives us a centerfielder and puts a big hole in center for Boston.

And I wont have to put money in the swear jar for every at bat Womack,Rube,Bernie,Lawton got in 2005 that will now be replaced with JD.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:17 AM
I know this shouldn't be posted here but those of you who need a brain rest from this:

Kobe Bryant 62 points in 3 quarters (30 in the 3rd quarter :gulp:) . Phil Jackson sits him in the 4th.
Yeah, Kobe's on my fantasy team too. Phil should have played him.

JonSnow
12-21-05, 12:18 AM
Damon's deal may have a no trade clause! Dear God.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spdamon1221,0,7603605.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines&track=mostemailedlink

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:18 AM
Oh, come on! Why all the negatives? Damon is a true lead-off hitter and batting from the left side is a natural for the Stadium. Besides this does two things - gives us a centerfielder and puts a big hole in center for Boston.


Exactly. I would think it was obvious, but apparently not. :confused:

RhodeyYankee2638
12-21-05, 12:19 AM
Yeah, Kobe's on my fantasy team too. Phil should have played him.

I just checked my league, the guy didn't check his team today and has Kobe benched. WOW

chanman7483
12-21-05, 12:19 AM
You haven't been around too long, so maybe this will help:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=80386&highlight=steroid+speculation

EDIT: Well, too late. Looks like you got ROed. Don't let the door hit ya...

Oh wow. I liked the guy, he had some good posts here.

gdn
12-21-05, 12:19 AM
I didn't realize people played fantasy basketball....

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:20 AM
Agreed.. but see post 545 and check out his career trends. Up down, up down. He's currently coming off of a "down"

EDIT: OPS
He's 32 now. I don't think he's going to continue that up down trend. My guess it will be down down down.

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:20 AM
i'm not a huge damon fan myself, but i'd rather have him than jacque.

gdn
12-21-05, 12:20 AM
Damn. Jim/Mods moved fast on that RO.

Oh well.

Back to the discussion at hand.

Clive
12-21-05, 12:21 AM
If you signed a rock to a $3mil/year deal, it would, literally, provide better value than Kevin Brown did last year.I'd say it'd be a push if the rock got thrown through a wall.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:21 AM
The Yankees would get more out of me for $1 million a season than we got out of Kevin Brown. I mean, getting more than we did out of KB doesn't really mean much.

Stating that you would have only gone 3 years with Damon is the point. I would have also, but we would never have gotten Damon for 3 years which is what I wanted.

People were very upset that we apparently offered him 5/53. Well, we ended up giving him 4/52. $13 million a season is way too much for a 32 year old on the decline that is not that great of an offensive player.

He is a slightly above average offensive player and the fact that he can leadoff does nothing for us since we already had the best leadoff hitter in the game in Derek Jeter. His defense is average at best and will get worse and worse. Did we need a CFer? Hell yes. Could we have had a cheaper option that would have been better in the long run? You betchya. Jacque Jones just signed a 3/$16 deal with the Cubs. I would have loved that deal compared to Damon's.

That we assume (well, OK, you all assume ;) ) is on the decline.

MassNYYfan
12-21-05, 12:21 AM
Olney said on ESPNews that the Yankees told Boras they needed an answer today or they were going to have to move on to their other options and Boras bit.

Would love to know how the talks really went, in detail.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:21 AM
He's 32 now. I don't think he's going to continue that up down trend. My guess it will be down down down.


Well we better win a world series within the next two years with him before he starts limping around

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:22 AM
Damon's deal may have a no trade clause! Dear God.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spdamon1221,0,7603605.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines&track=mostemailedlink
Nobody will want him in his last couple years anyways...

jimmykey2
12-21-05, 12:22 AM
Let's see. Bubba or Damon. Bubba or Damon. Damon or NYYFans wishlist of 30 players to play CF, with 28 of the threads being closed because it wasn't happening.

hmmmm. Tough choices.


For 52 million over 4 years?!?!?!

I could've stomached 4 months of Bubba in CF. Bubba won't hit, but is a better defensive player right now. I could also think of some much better uses for 52 mil. Too bad Cashman couldn't.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-21-05, 12:22 AM
For 52 million over 4 years?!?!?!

I could've stomached 4 months of Bubba in CF. Bubba won't hit, but is a better defensive player right now. I could also think of some much better uses for 52 mil. Too bad Cashman couldn't.

AJ Burnett?

gdn
12-21-05, 12:22 AM
Goodnight everyone!

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:23 AM
Damon's deal may have a no trade clause! Dear God.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spdamon1221,0,7603605.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines&track=mostemailedlink

That was a brilliant move... ugh.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:23 AM
i'm not a huge damon fan myself, but i'd rather have him than jacque.
If they cost the same money, of course. But, 3/16 was what Jones got. 4/52 is what Damon got. There's a bit of a difference there.

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 12:23 AM
Oh wow. I liked the guy, he had some good posts here.
Me too.

That seemed like a real quick hook.

RhodyYanksFan
12-21-05, 12:23 AM
Wow...23 pages in 3 hours. New record?

I just got home from work and walk in on this. I have mixed feelings. I'm an optimist so I think this will work out well for the Yankees. If nothing else it gives me crap to talk tomorrow at work, not to mention my Sox fan GF LOVES! Damon. Maybe I'll buy her a NYY Damon t shirt.

I can't wait to hear the smear campaign from Sox fans. They do it to everyone. However, if the tables were turned, I'd hate a guy for jumping to the Sox as a FA just for the money, especially when the rivalry is this intense.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:23 AM
And I wont have to put money in the swear jar for every at bat Womack,Rube,Bernie,Lawton got in 2005 that will now be replaced with JD.

BINGO!

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:24 AM
Olney said on ESPNews that the Yankees told Boras they needed an answer today or they were going to have to move on to their other options and Boras bit.

Would love to know how the talks really went, in detail.

probably

yankees: we don't want him

boras: but he'd be a real asset.

yankees: not for 7 years.

boras: he'll be a solid 7 years. never been on the DL.

yankees: how about 4?

boras: i don't know. 7 is such a better number.

yankees: we do have bubba, you know..

boras: fine, 4 years. but what about the money? boston offered us 40

yankees: we'll give you 52. take it or leave it. remember: bubba.

boras: no f*cking way.

yankees: alright, good day.

boras: wait.....

and the rest is history

Yankees13
12-21-05, 12:24 AM
All I know is that I'm SO getting my friend's Damon Red Sox T-Shirt...
The day they start printing the Damon T-Shirt Jerseys, I want to get one and drive up to Boston. :D

Clive
12-21-05, 12:24 AM
Oh wow. I liked the guy, he had some good posts here.I'm sure Wang's Groundballs can pick up the slack. ;)

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:25 AM
BINGO!
I bet Bernie DH's all the time.

WebsterMulligan
12-21-05, 12:25 AM
I can't wait to hear the smear campaign from Sox fans. They do it to everyone. However, if the tables were turned, I'd hate a guy for jumping to the Sox as a FA just for the money, especially when the rivalry is this intense.

The people on WEEI are going to have a field day.

I can't wait! :lol:

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:25 AM
If they cost the same money, of course. But, 3/16 was what Jones got. 4/52 is what Damon got. There's a bit of a difference there.

well, what else were we gonna spend our money on this off-season?

CTSoxFan
12-21-05, 12:25 AM
My favorite Damon quote so far:

"They haven't had a championship since Chuck Knoblauch was there, when they had a great leadoff hitter," Damon said. "I think the leadoff role has been underappreciated. A good leadoff hitter is tough to find and I think New York just found the best leadoff hitter in the game."

This whole time, I never knew that Knobby was the key to the whole thing! ;)

Clive
12-21-05, 12:26 AM
well, what else were we gonna spend our money on this off-season?How about a bulldozer?

Just throwin' it out there.

destiNY
12-21-05, 12:26 AM
I bet Bernie DH's all the time.

Bernie will DH 2-3 games a week

Steph19
12-21-05, 12:26 AM
Best part about signing Damon and the subsequent move of Damon as the lead-off man...

No, not that it puts Jeter back in the 2 hole but that, in turn, it keeps Robinson Cano out of the 2 hole.

I know Damon's not the best leasoff hitter but now that we're pretty much guarenteed a 1-2 of Damon/Jeter... Well, that is pretty good.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 12:26 AM
How about a bulldozer?

Just throwin' it out there.

:lol: Perhaps to lure Roy Oswalt to the team????

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:26 AM
How about a bulldozer?

Just throwin' it out there.

who do we look like, the astros?

RhodeyYankee2638
12-21-05, 12:27 AM
:lol: Perhaps to lure Roy Oswalt to the team????


Never say that, I may take a heart attack in all of my excitement, one of my favorite players out there

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:27 AM
Goodnight everyone!

Sleep well, amico mio :)


For 52 million over 4 years?!?!?!

I could've stomached 4 months of Bubba in CF. Bubba won't hit, but is a better defensive player right now. I could also think of some much better uses for 52 mil. Too bad Cashman couldn't.


Bubba starts for 4 months, and you can kiss the division goodbye.

jimmykey2
12-21-05, 12:28 AM
I just got home from work and walk in on this. I have mixed feelings. I'm an optimist so I think this will work out well for the Yankees. If nothing else it gives me crap to talk tomorrow at work, not to mention my Sox fan GF LOVES! Damon. Maybe I'll buy her a NYY Damon t shirt.



A unmentionable NYY T-shirt?

Oh the horror!

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:28 AM
Me too.

That seemed like a real quick hook.
As someone who needed to alter my posting style, he was asking for it.

Yankees13
12-21-05, 12:28 AM
Well we better win a world series within the next two years with him before he starts limping around
Yeah we're primed to win the WS this year, and we better get it, because that's the only way signing Damon is worth it, living with a crappy CF when you've won a WS recently is ok, doing it with no reward is not.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:29 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?

ShaneTravis
12-21-05, 12:30 AM
The day they start printing the Damon T-Shirt Jerseys, I want to get one and drive up to Boston. :D

I have a car that holds 4. and I have ez pass.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 12:30 AM
Never say that, I may take a heart attack in all of my excitement, one of my favorite players out there

Yeah I love Oswalt, if he played in NY or BOS, he'd be drawing comparisons to a young Clemens. Helluva pitcher. If anyone is worth buying a bulldozer for, its Roy Oswalt. :)

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:30 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?

he won't be leading off by the middle of the 3rd year

Yankees13
12-21-05, 12:31 AM
I have a car that holds 4. and I have ez pass.
The more the merrier. :D

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:31 AM
My favorite Damon quote so far:

"They haven't had a championship since Chuck Knoblauch was there, when they had a great leadoff hitter," Damon said. "I think the leadoff role has been underappreciated. A good leadoff hitter is tough to find and I think New York just found the best leadoff hitter in the game."

This whole time, I never knew that Knobby was the key to the whole thing! ;)

You gotta wonder, though. No Knobby=no lead off guy=no rings.

Damon may have a point?

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:31 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?

Probably one.

Yankees13
12-21-05, 12:31 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?
My guess is 2...

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:32 AM
well, what else were we gonna spend our money on this off-season?
I could care less about this offseason. Next offseason, how about Barry Zito? And the one after that, there will be plenty of great players. And in a couple, how about Johan Santana? But no, we'll be under contract for $13 million for Damon.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:33 AM
12.20.2005 Cue vomit Johnny Damonís days in Boston are over.

The free-agent center fielder agreed to a four-year, $52 million contract with the rival Yankees late Tuesday night. The agreement is contingent on Damon passing a physical.

Damon conformed the deal in an interview on Boston television station CBS-4 on Tuesday night.

"New York came after me aggressively and that's what sealed the deal," he said. "I'm headed to New York ... I'm very excited ... It's with mixed emotions ... Time for me to look forward." (Source (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/))

Knee-jerk reaction from NoMaas:

We seriously can't believe this. We are upset beyond words. The Yankees spend $52 million on a guy who has a 102 OPS+ for his career and was one of the worst defensive CFs in baseball last year, according to Zone Rating. Best of all, the Yankees will get his decline years as he hits his mid 30s.

And because he's a "natural leadoff hitter", he is going to move 5 better hitters down in the batting order. And how many times do you think Jeter is going to sacrifice bunt next year?

This signing goes against everything that Cashman has been preaching so far this offseason. Was this a Cashman move or was this ordered by Steinbrenner? One has to wonder. Either way proves that this organization is still dysfunctional and inefficient.

Is he an upgrade over Bernie? Yes, he is. But is he worth a $52 million investment? Ever hear of risk/reward? This is a waste of money and a typical Yankees move. These are the garbage transactions that inspired the creation of NoMaas.

http://www.nomaas.org/

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:33 AM
Five ;)

mickey mantle
12-21-05, 12:33 AM
The people on WEEI are going to have a field day.

I can't wait! :lol:

the weiner whiner line will be hilarious

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:33 AM
I could care less about this offseason. Next offseason, how about Barry Zito? And the one after that, there will be plenty of great players. And in a couple, how about Johan Santana? But no, we'll be under contract for $13 million for Damon.
Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think that this contract prevents the Yankees from signing free agent pitchers next offseason when they have Mussina and Sheffield coming off the books?

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:34 AM
Best part about signing Damon and the subsequent move of Damon as the lead-off man...

No, not that it puts Jeter back in the 2 hole but that, in turn, it keeps Robinson Cano out of the 2 hole.

I know Damon's not the best leasoff hitter but now that we're pretty much guarenteed a 1-2 of Damon/Jeter... Well, that is pretty good.
Cano wasn't the #2 hitter anyways. We had a guy named Alex Rodriguez who did a pretty good job in that spot last year and the Yankees have already let it be known that they want their best hitters to hit in the 1-5 spots. (When we were thinking about Pierre, he would have batted 9th for that reason).

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:34 AM
My guess is 2...

I think that's being too generous :lol:

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:35 AM
Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think that this contract prevents the Yankees from signing free agent pitchers next offseason when they have Mussina and Sheffield coming off the books?
And they need to replace that production. Plus, they need to replace the production lost with the growing age of the vets on the team - like RJ who will certainly be no ace in his last year on the team.

Clive
12-21-05, 12:35 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?What's the over/under?

dartek
12-21-05, 12:35 AM
My favorite Damon quote so far:

"They haven't had a championship since Chuck Knoblauch was there, when they had a great leadoff hitter," Damon said. "I think the leadoff role has been underappreciated. A good leadoff hitter is tough to find and I think New York just found the best leadoff hitter in the game."

This whole time, I never knew that Knobby was the key to the whole thing! ;)

I knew but I kept it a secret so that the Yankees wouldn't win any more championships...and I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for that nosy Damon guy. Curses, foiled again!

Yankees13
12-21-05, 12:35 AM
I think that's being too generous :lol:
Depends on how you define suck I suppose.

jimmykey2
12-21-05, 12:35 AM
Sleep well, amico mio :)




Bubba starts for 4 months, and you can kiss the division goodbye.


Not so fast my friend. This was player A's numbers after the first four months of last season:

.245/.333/.371

This was player B's numbers in the only month he played full-time in his career:

.321/.333/.415


We managed to win the division with Bernie in CF with those numbers after 4 months. Bubba had those numbers playing full-time for the first time in September. The idea the Yanks couldn't win with Bubba playing half a season in CF is insane.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:36 AM
Out of the next four years, how many years will it take for Damon to officially suck?
Offensively, my guess is he'll be a below average player for the last 2 years of the deal. Defensively, he'll be a below average CFer for all 4 seasons. (And for the record, that will still look like very good defense compared to what we've been used to for the last few seasons).

DaveK913
12-21-05, 12:36 AM
I'm not the biggest Damon guy out there, but considering the options (Or lack thereof) it's a decent move. He has got a weak arm, but his overall defense isn't that bad and either he or Jeter would be fine in the leadoff spot. Jeter's got more power but they're pretty similiar otherwise.

Another pro to this is he's probably not a guy that we'll have to worry about handling playing in NY. We've all seen any number of greenhorns come into NYC and basically wilt away. Damon knows the city, he knows the atmosphere, and he knows the rivalries involved all the way around.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:37 AM
Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think that this contract prevents the Yankees from signing free agent pitchers next offseason when they have Mussina and Sheffield coming off the books?
One last thing. We now have $60 million tied up to 4 players 4 seasons from now. 3 of them (Matsui, Jeter, Damon) will be 35 and 1 of them (ARod) will be 34.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:37 AM
And they need to replace that production. Plus, they need to replace the production lost with the growing age of the vets on the team - like RJ who will certainly be no ace in his last year on the team.


If we create a great starting staff, we won't need to buy as much offensive production

Jace
12-21-05, 12:38 AM
You gotta wonder, though. No Knobby=no lead off guy=no rings.

Damon may have a point?

Correlation is not equal to causation, man. I was also younger all of the years we won championships. Maybe me getting older is the reason the Yankees have lost in the playoffs? Knoblach's numbers from all of those years are inferior to Jeter's numbers last year. The difference is in pitching and some hitting with RISP.

Well, this is a big thing to come back from studying for. If i didnt have 6 hours of exams tomorrow I would have been here and saved Wang. Sorry guys.

This deal probably will be ok for awhile, then suck and the Yanks will have to eat $$. Guess we'll still be better next year.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:39 AM
I'll just tell this story since it's appropriate now.

I was at the 17-1 loss against the Red Sox and sat in the bleachers and stayed till the end as I do for every game, no matter the score. By the end of the game, there was hardly anyone left in the very quiet stadium. I took the opportunity to yell, "Hey Johnny, we don't want you here next year!" He looked back at me and pointed at his hat, showing that he would be with the Red Sox. I wish he hadn't lied to me.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:40 AM
Not so fast my friend. This was player A's numbers after the first four months of last season:

.245/.333/.371

This was player B's numbers in the only month he played full-time in his career:

.321/.333/.415


We managed to win the division with Bernie in CF with those numbers after 4 months. Bubba had those numbers playing full-time for the first time in September. The idea the Yanks couldn't win with Bubba playing half a season in CF is insane.


Yanks (and only the Yanks) might be able pull it off. Doubt it, though. I can almost guarantee you if Bubba starts 4 months we do not win the division. And I like Bubba, a lot.
Insane is thinking he's a season .321 hitter right now. Or anywhere near it. ;)

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:40 AM
And they need to replace that production. Plus, they need to replace the production lost with the growing age of the vets on the team - like RJ who will certainly be no ace in his last year on the team.
The Yankees will be in position to sign any free agent pitcher they like next offseason or the one after that. I know that you don't like this signing, but please stop with the hyperbole as to how this effects the Yankees ability to sign the necessary players they will need in the future. In the next two seasons, the Yankees have plenty of guys coming off their books which will allow them to play some cheaper, younger players and also sign or acquire the necessary veteran players they require.

This deal might not be to your liking, but it's really not that bad.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:41 AM
............

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:41 AM
If we create a great starting staff, we won't need to buy as much offensive production
And given how much money starting pitchers are getting, that's going to cost a whole ton of money. And, you still can't have below replacement level players out there. You need to fill the team with guys with good OBP's - and those guys still cost money.

What we really need to do, given how old this team will be in a few seasons, is not trade any of the prospects and continue to develop the farm. Because we are definitely going to need some cheap players that produce on this team in the very near future.

MassNYYfan
12-21-05, 12:42 AM
probably

yankees: we don't want him

boras: but he'd be a real asset.

yankees: not for 7 years.

boras: he'll be a solid 7 years. never been on the DL.

yankees: how about 4?

boras: i don't know. 7 is such a better number.

yankees: we do have bubba, you know..

boras: fine, 4 years. but what about the money? boston offered us 40

yankees: we'll give you 52. take it or leave it. remember: bubba.

boras: no f*cking way.

yankees: alright, good day.

boras: wait.....

and the rest is history


:lol:

Buster wasn't far off from that. Said the Yanks said no to 6, said no to 5 w/ an option, etc. I'm sure they'll be running the same phone call on ESPNews all night.

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:42 AM
One last thing. We now have $60 million tied up to 4 players 4 seasons from now. 3 of them (Matsui, Jeter, Damon) will be 35 and 1 of them (ARod) will be 34.
Hell, you were crying for the Yankees to sign Giles a 35 year old for three years. Just because a player is that age doesn't necessarily mean they're washed up and not effective.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:42 AM
The Yankees will be in position to sign any free agent pitcher they like next offseason or the one after that. I know that you don't like this signing, but please stop with the hyperbole as to how this effects the Yankees ability to sign the necessary players they will need in the future. In the next two seasons, the Yankees have plenty of guys coming off their books which will allow them to play some cheaper, younger players and also sign or acquire the necessary veteran players they require.

This deal might not be to your liking, but it's really not that bad.

Exactly. We're not Marlins fans, we don't have to worry about acquisitions from a previous year having a major effect on the next.

We will make a big deal or two next year, same as always.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:43 AM
Damon got Matsui's contract which is just about right.

jimmykey2
12-21-05, 12:43 AM
Yanks (and only the Yanks) could probably pull it off. I guarantee you if Bubba starts 4 months we do not win the division. And I like Bubba, a lot.
Insane is thinking he's a season .321 hitter right now. Or anywhere near it. ;)


Oh please don't think I'm saying Bubba would hit .321. My point is he probably wouldn't be as bad as some of us make him out to be. The difference between what Bernie produced in the lineup and allowed in CF in the first 4 months of 2005 wouldn't be much different from what Bubba could produce and allow in CF.

Jace
12-21-05, 12:44 AM
The Yankees will be in position to sign any free agent pitcher they like next offseason or the one after that. I know that you don't like this signing, but please stop with the hyperbole as to how this effects the Yankees ability to sign the necessary players they will need in the future. In the next two seasons, the Yankees have plenty of guys coming off their books which will allow them to play some cheaper, younger players and also sign or acquire the necessary veteran players they require.

This deal might not be to your liking, but it's really not that bad.

The Yankees may have the ability to absorb Damon's contract in years 3 and 4, but if Torre is still around he will play Damon no matter how far gone the guy is. A couple ok years (.800 OPS, avg to below avg defense), then a couple Bernie years (.650 to .725 OPS, steadily and painfully declining defense).

Whatever, I have like 600 days before I worry about that. I guess he can sell his beard to Sox 2004 collector fanatics now

27IsNext
12-21-05, 12:44 AM
The ONLY thing that REALLY pisses me off is the apparant NTC. Let's assume that Damon declines defensively and we have to move him to DH/1B, since he doesn't have the arm to play RF. That creates a logjam at 1B with Giambi. If and when he's ready, where does Eric Duncan play?

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:45 AM
Exactly. We're not Marlins fans, we don't have to worry about acquisitions from a previous year having a major effect on the next.

We will make a big deal or two next year, same as always.
Especially, if the Yankees continue to place emphasis on player development which allows them payroll flexibility. What hurt the Yankees last offseason and this one is the lack of young and inexpensive players to plug into the lineup or make to make trades with.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:45 AM
The Yankees, meanwhile, have no major holes. Their off-season work is all but complete, and they have done it at the expense of their rivals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/21/sports/baseball/21damon.html

Says it all.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:45 AM
Even if you are against this deal, you can't deny it'll make for an interesting season next year with the rivalry and all.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 12:46 AM
Even if you are against this deal, you can't deny it'll make for an interesting season next year with the rivalry and all.

No, I'm quite sure the Yanks-Sox rivalry will remain quite boring, as least until they stop playing each other 38743574209752047502754 times a year.

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:46 AM
The Yankees may have the ability to absorb Damon's contract in years 3 and 4, but if Torre is still around he will play Damon no matter how far gone the guy is. A couple ok years (.800 OPS, avg to below avg defense), then a couple Bernie years (.650 to .725 OPS, steadily and painfully declining defense).

Whatever, I have like 600 days before I worry about that. I guess he can sell his beard to Sox 2004 collector fanatics now
Hey, can we get through 2006 and 2007 before we worry about what Torre may or may not do in 2008 and 2009? Chances are, Torre might not even be around. Also, if the Yankees had better options for Torre, maybe, he wouldn't have played Bernie in CF this year.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:47 AM
The Yankees will be in position to sign any free agent pitcher they like next offseason or the one after that. I know that you don't like this signing, but please stop with the hyperbole as to how this effects the Yankees ability to sign the necessary players they will need in the future. In the next two seasons, the Yankees have plenty of guys coming off their books which will allow them to play some cheaper, younger players and also sign or acquire the necessary veteran players they require.

This deal might not be to your liking, but it's really not that bad.
I do think it affects us in the coming seasons. Damon making $13 million per is going to hurt us - just like Bernie making that money in his last couple seasons. The difference is we got some amazing seasons from Bernie and with Damon, I only see us getting 2 above average ones.

We will have guys like Sheff coming off the books and we will need to replace his value. Moose will come off the books and we will need to add a very good pitcher. Other than that, we've got Giambi locked up for 3 more; Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, and Matsui locked up for 4+; Pavano locked up for 3 more. It's not like this year when we had guys like KB and Bernie coming off the books - guys that weren't producing at all.

I think this team needed to get younger, and Damon does not help us do that.

Saying all that, he helps us more than anyone else to win the WS in 2006. I just think that over the next 4 seasons, we could have gotten someone else that helped us more overall.

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:48 AM
I'll just tell this story since it's appropriate now.

I was at the 17-1 loss against the Red Sox and sat in the bleachers and stayed till the end as I do for every game, no matter the score. By the end of the game, there was hardly anyone left in the very quiet stadium. I took the opportunity to yell, "Hey Johnny, we don't want you here next year!" He looked back at me and pointed at his hat, showing that he would be with the Red Sox. I wish he hadn't lied to me.

is it his fault that the boston FO alienated yet another one of their players and forced his hand?

what is it about the sox?

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:48 AM
Oh please don't think I'm saying Bubba would hit .321. My point is he probably wouldn't be as bad as some of us make him out to be. The difference between what Bernie produced in the lineup and allowed in CF in the first 4 months of 2005 wouldn't be much different from what Bubba could produce and allow in CF.


Dunno, TBH. You could be right, of course. However, based on past performance, you would be more likely to be wrong (not meant to sound smart a$$--if it did, I apologize).

Bubba becomes what he is meant to be....a defensive replacement in the OF for the NYY. No shame in that.

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:48 AM
No, I'm quite sure the Yanks-Sox rivalry will remain quite boring, as least until they stop playing each other 38743574209752047502754 times a year.


ok....

joesalto
12-21-05, 12:48 AM
I really do not care about how much it costs, we got him for about what we wanted, 4 years. Left and center are now signed for 4 years. Next year we worry about right field and catcher.

If we went with Bubby, the 1st time he struck out with the bases loaded, we'd be screaming we didnt make this pick up.

welcome to the bronx Johnny!!

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:49 AM
I do think it affects us in the coming seasons. Damon making $13 million per is going to hurt us - just like Bernie making that money in his last couple seasons. The difference is we got some amazing seasons from Bernie and with Damon, I only see us getting 2 above average ones.

We will have guys like Sheff coming off the books and we will need to replace his value. Moose will come off the books and we will need to add a very good pitcher. Other than that, we've got Giambi locked up for 3 more; Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, and Matsui locked up for 4+; Pavano locked up for 3 more. It's not like this year when we had guys like KB and Bernie coming off the books - guys that weren't producing at all.

I think this team needed to get younger, and Damon does not help us do that.

Saying all that, he helps us more than anyone else to win the WS in 2006. I just think that over the next 4 seasons, we could have gotten someone else that helped us more overall.
Well, I can see that continuing this argument with you isn't going to do me any good since your mind is made up that this deal has no upside and is completely detrimental to the Yankees. I can't argue with that type of logic.

parkerstrong
12-21-05, 12:49 AM
I love reading some Red Sox fans post on Boston.com....aparently Lowell, Arroyo and Graffanino will get Hunter and JC Romero! It amuses me to read their posts!

Regarding Damon...he will be productive next year and will be much, much better than Bubba. The extra hurt is that it takes away from the Red Sox....I think this seals the deal with the Yankees finishing above Boston next year.

BTW, I dont have a problem with RJ, Mussina, Pavano, Chacon, and Wang as a rotation. Our bullpen is coming together with Mo, Farnsworth, Myers, Villone, Dotel, Sturtze. Where do Small and Wright fit? Dont really know.

I am more excited to see Red Sox fans react that actually see Damon as a Yankee!!!!!!!!

PAUL
12-21-05, 12:49 AM
I just heard and all I have to say is, unbelievable.

flymick24
12-21-05, 12:50 AM
I do think it affects us in the coming seasons. Damon making $13 million per is going to hurt us - just like Bernie making that money in his last couple seasons. The difference is we got some amazing seasons from Bernie and with Damon, I only see us getting 2 above average ones.

We will have guys like Sheff coming off the books and we will need to replace his value. Moose will come off the books and we will need to add a very good pitcher. Other than that, we've got Giambi locked up for 3 more; Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, and Matsui locked up for 4+; Pavano locked up for 3 more. It's not like this year when we had guys like KB and Bernie coming off the books - guys that weren't producing at all.

I think this team needed to get younger, and Damon does not help us do that.

Saying all that, he helps us more than anyone else to win the WS in 2006. I just think that over the next 4 seasons, we could have gotten someone else that helped us more overall.

i think at least moose's spot in the rotation can be filled from within... desalvo, karstens, or even white

Jace
12-21-05, 12:50 AM
Hey, can we get through 2006 and 2007 before we worry about what Torre may or may not do in 2008 and 2009?

I said exactly this in the post you quoted.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:51 AM
is it his fault that the boston FO alienated yet another one of their players and forced his hand?

what is it about the sox?


The Sox win a WS, then proceed to let a very productive outfielder go to the Yanks.

Sound familar?

The Curse of the Bambino reborn. :D

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:51 AM
Hell, you were crying for the Yankees to sign Giles a 35 year old for three years. Just because a player is that age doesn't necessarily mean they're washed up and not effective.
Well, I wasn't crying at all. I realized that he didn't want to come here and accepted that. Now, I did want to sign Giles for 3 years, yes.

Giles is a MUCH better player than Damon. Giles is much cheaper than Damon as well. Giles would have played RF after the first season while Damon will continue to play CF for his whole 4 seasons. Most importantly, Giles had one of his best ever seasons last season while Damon showed signs of breaking down last year and began his decline.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:53 AM
is it his fault that the boston FO alienated yet another one of their players and forced his hand?

what is it about the sox?
Boston's FO didn't want to overpay for a declining player unlike us. Instead they'll most likely trade for an incredibly great defensive CFer in Jeremy Reed. A much younger player, who isn't as good offensively, but is fantastic defensively, unlike the aging Damon.

jimmykey2
12-21-05, 12:54 AM
I was just watching ESPN and Buster Olney, who hates the Yanks and every move they make with all his heart, loves this deal. That makes me more scared than anything. All I need now is the accompanying Lupica and Chass articles and we'll be assured of Damon getting hurt in spring training.

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 12:54 AM
i think at least moose's spot in the rotation can be filled from within... desalvo, karstens, or even white
What that person fails to say is that in the next two years, we have Mussina, Sheffield, Posada, Johnson and Wright coming off the books. In that time, you have two more years for your minor league system to turnout replacements in the bullpen, starting staff and outfield and at 1st base.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:54 AM
Well, I can see that continuing this argument with you isn't going to do me any good since your mind is made up that this deal has no upside and is completely detrimental to the Yankees. I can't argue with that type of logic.
I stated at the very end there that this deal gives us the best chance out of the options out there to win the WS in 2006. I think that's a fair amount of upside.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:55 AM
I was just watching ESPN and Buster Olney, who hates the Yanks and every move they make with all his heart, loves this deal. That makes me more scared than anything. All I need now is the accompanying Lupica and Chass articles and we'll be assured of Damon getting hurt in spring training.
I thought Buster sounded somewhat sad about the deal meaning he thinks its a good deal for the Yankees which is bad for him and the Yankee haters.

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:56 AM
The Sox win a WS, then proceed to let a very productive outfielder go to the Yanks.

Sound familar?

The Curse of the Bambino reborn. :D
Comparing Damon to the Babe makes me :barf:

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 12:56 AM
Gah. OT, but I can't wait 'till Opening Day. :) :lol:

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 12:56 AM
I was just watching ESPN and Buster Olney, who hates the Yanks and every move they make with all his heart, loves this deal. That makes me more scared than anything. All I need now is the accompanying Lupica and Chass articles and we'll be assured of Damon getting hurt in spring training.

Buster is anti-Yankee? I really did not know that. He seems impartial every time I see him on T.V.

chanman7483
12-21-05, 12:57 AM
Boston's FO didn't want to overpay for a declining player unlike us. Instead they'll most likely trade for an incredibly great defensive CFer in Jeremy Reed. A much younger player, who isn't as good offensively, but is fantastic defensively, unlike the aging Damon.

Jeremy Reed will not be as big a factor as people are making him out to be if he lands on the Red Sox. He'll play a solid CF and save runs, but combine that with an extremely less potent offense and laughable pitching staff, and people will be begging for the offensive production.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 12:57 AM
Comparing Damon to the Babe makes me :barf:


It was tongue in cheek. Obviously Damon is no Babe.;)

OlgMvp
12-21-05, 12:58 AM
Very unfortunate this is....overpaid per year and gave him a year too much.


On top of that, we lose a draft pick to Boston...I'm not really happy about this.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 12:58 AM
The Sox win a WS, then proceed to let a very productive outfielder go to the Yanks.

Sound familar?

The Curse of the Bambino reborn. :D
Babe Ruth's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 219. (He was also 24 when he put up those numbers)

Johnny Damon's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 113. He was 31 last season.

Lets not put those two names in the same sentence as it's not fair to the Babe.

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:58 AM
It was tongue in cheek.

Yeah ok.

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 12:59 AM
Babe Ruth's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 219. (He was also 24 when he put up those numbers)

Johnny Damon's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 113. He was 31 last season.

Lets not put those two names in the same sentence as it's not fair to the Babe.


Apparently it was tongue in cheek or something..

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 12:59 AM
Gah. OT, but I can't wait 'till Opening Day. :) :lol:

Gah Gah Gah. You're too cute.

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 12:59 AM
I thought Buster sounded somewhat sad about the deal meaning he thinks its a good deal for the Yankees which is bad for him and the Yankee haters.
They've been in tears at ESPN ever since the news broke.

My favorite was Karl Ravech. He looked like someone just shot his dog.

NYDCYankee
12-21-05, 12:59 AM
I wonder when we will see the first Johnny Damon themed forum member name?

Tifoso
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
Babe Ruth's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 219. (He was also 24 when he put up those numbers)

Johnny Damon's OPS+ the year before he came to the Yankees: 113. He was 31 last season.

Lets not put those two names in the same sentence as it's not fair to the Babe.


It was a joke, for gosh sakes. :(

AlongCameAPrincess
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
It'd be funny if out of the blue Bernie ends up in Boston. Of course, I'd die but, it'b be funny! And sad. :(

Jace
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
My favorite was Karl Ravech. He looked like someone just shot his dog.

Hehe Ravech is definitely one of the more bearable admitted Red Sox fans on ESPN. Thats kind of sad.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
1125 posts already Wow.

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
Gah Gah Gah. You're too cute.

:lol: Someone's happy tonight.... ;) :D

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 01:00 AM
Well, I wasn't crying at all. I realized that he didn't want to come here and accepted that. Now, I did want to sign Giles for 3 years, yes.

Giles is a MUCH better player than Damon. Giles is much cheaper than Damon as well. Giles would have played RF after the first season while Damon will continue to play CF for his whole 4 seasons. Most importantly, Giles had one of his best ever seasons last season while Damon showed signs of breaking down last year and began his decline.
You were begging the Yankees to sign Giles whether he's a better hitter or not. Right now, Damon is a better fit for the Yankees because he fits an immediate need. If Damon declines enough in 2008/2009 to the detriment of the Yankees, the only thing I can say right now is that a lot can happen between now and then. I think we're just gettiing tangle in our spurs worrying about what might happen two years from now when so much is still unknown about the future.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 01:01 AM
Apparently it was tongue in cheek or something..


Be nice...

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
It was a joke, for gosh sakes. :(

*rolls eyes* No, you deserve to get crucified! How dare you?!? :P

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
We will have guys like Sheff coming off the books and we will need to replace his value. Moose will come off the books and we will need to add a very good pitcher. Other than that, we've got Giambi locked up for 3 more; Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, and Matsui locked up for 4+; Pavano locked up for 3 more. It's not like this year when we had guys like KB and Bernie coming off the books - guys that weren't producing at all.

Moose's 2004-2005 production can be replaced at about a quarter of the cost. Phil Hughes might even be able to slide in and take Moose's rotation spot. I'm not worried about replacing Moose.


I think this team needed to get younger, and Damon does not help us do that.

Youth for the sake of youth isn't helpful. The team has retained Cano and Wang, while filling their CF void with the best available option. What young CFer would you have preferred? Jason Michaels? He's 30. Bubba Crosby? He's 28 and sucks.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
:lol: Someone's happy tonight.... ;) :D
...........

jbauer2485
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
I'm so hyper from this deal now. Such bad timing by Damon, I'm going to be up all night now.

Yankees Empire
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
The Yankees haven't won the World Series since 2000. Each subsequent off-season, we have pursued a policy of getting the biggest name available. What glory we've achieved since then!

We lose the 2001 World Series because we can't score a few more friggin' runs.

We get blown out in 2002 because of poor pitching.

We lose in 2003 because of an all-or-nothing offense.

Ditto 2004. Add to it crappy starting pitching.

Further ditto 2005.

Now we give a behemouth contract to a guy who's best years are behind him.

Great, because the idea of trying to add the biggest name available has served us so well the past 5 years. We add another post 30-year old to the roster thinking that HE'S THE GUY who will lead us to JUST ONE MORE taste of October champagne.

Meanwhile, Father Time creeps ever so slowly but inevitably upon the rest of our roster. Do we honestly think that the other dinosaurs on our roster won't experience some level of decline in 2006?

We're going to, one day, if things don't change, end up with a very old, very bad team.

We had to scrap and claw just to make the damn post-season last year. How does Johnny Damon make it easier, especially given the prevalance of antiques in our pitching staff?

Does anybody care about trying to build another dynasty? Does anybody want to win 4 rings in 6 years again? Do you think signing Johnny Damon improves the chances of such a run happening again anytime soon?

The monster acquisitions of recent off-seasons haven't pushed us to another ring. Why is this ridiculous acquisition any different?

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
Be nice...

Oh but I am ;)

-tz
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
Danb! You turn off the computer for a couple of hours to watch some old movies on TCM ... and your whole world falls apart! :eek:

Has he gotten a haircut yet? :)

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:02 AM
It was a joke, for gosh sakes. :(
Your right, I'm sorry. I'm just not thrilled with the deal.

Tifoso
12-21-05, 01:03 AM
I wonder when we will see the first Johnny Damon themed forum member name?


Johnnie Da Man

Tifoso
12-21-05, 01:04 AM
Your right, I'm sorry. I'm just not thrilled with the deal.

Not a problem. Thanks, amico mio. :)

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:04 AM
I stayed away from this thread for 2 hours....and I see things are still pretty tense

relax people....who would have ever thought Johnny Damon could stir up this much emotion :lol:

DaSwing
12-21-05, 01:04 AM
Congrats to the Yankees.

Ignoring the money, you guys got yourselves a good ballplayer. We all know his shortcomings - there will surely be a night you guys curse him, when some Twin scores the winning run from first on a single in the gap, while Damon wings a duck back in towards the infield... but more often than not he'll be 2 for 4 with a walk and 2 runs scored.

One of the nice things about Damon that I haven't seen mentioned is his baserunning. He is excellent going first to 3rd... first to home.... 2nd to home. I don't think he's as quick as he used to be, but makes up for it with good reads. I imagine him and Jeter will pull off some nice hit and runs.

From a Sox perspective, it definitely leaves an offensive hole to fill. But.... I also don't think it would've been a very efficient use of $13 mil/yr for the next 4 years.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:05 AM
You were begging the Yankees to sign Giles whether he's a better hitter or not. Right now, Damon is a better fit for the Yankees because he fits an immediate need. If Damon declines enough in 2008/2009 to the detriment of the Yankees, the only thing I can say right now is that a lot can happen between now and then. I think we're just gettiing tangle in our spurs worrying about what might happen two years from now when so much is still unknown about the future.
Giles is a better overall player than Damon and is cheaper than Damon. And that is the reason why I wanted him.

Jace
12-21-05, 01:06 AM
2006 Yankees' Starting Lineup
1. Johnny Damon, CF, L
2. Derek Jeter, SS, R
3. Alex Rodriguez, 3B, R
4. Jason Giambi, 1B, L
5. Gary Sheffield, RF, R
6. Hideki Matsui, LF, L
7. Jorge Posada, C, S
8. Robinson Cano, 2B, L
9. Andy Phillips, DH, R

Sorry, all you "Jeter is a leadoff hitter" people.

Um excuse me:

Make that Derek "Sanderson" Jeter

DJeter1287
12-21-05, 01:06 AM
This just feels surreal. I was watching ESPNews and they played part of Damon's interview with the radio station and was referring to the Yankees and saying "we." It just sounded strange.

Anyway, although I wasn't happy about this signing at first, there are a few positives. He is a good lead-off hitter and can cover a lot of ground. Also, we no longer have to worry about him hurting us in the postseason (2004 comes to mind).

It's going to be strange but he is a Yankee, and I guess I must come to terms with that and accept it.

PettittesPrincess
12-21-05, 01:06 AM
Has he gotten a haircut yet? :)


I hope so... :barf:

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 01:07 AM
Giles is a better overall player than Damon and is cheaper than Damon. And that is the reason why I wanted him.
So prove to me how he's a better overall player besides giving me his OBP and slugging percentage?

ICEBERG18
12-21-05, 01:08 AM
"We know George Steinbrenner's reputation; he always wants to have the best players and I think he showed that tonight," Damon told WBZ. "He and Brian Cashman came after me hard and now I'm part of the Yankees and that great lineup. We're going to be a tough team to beat."

"They haven't had a championship since Chuck Knoblauch was there when they had a great leadoff hitter," Damon said. "I think the leadoff role has been under-appreciated. A good leadoff hitter is tough to find and I think New York just found the best leadoff hitter in the game."

"Without a doubt, George Steinbrenner has a policy and I'm going to stick to it," Damon said. "Our policy with the Yankees is to go out there and win and we're going to try and bring another championship to them."

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1285418&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy


The whole thing started to come together a little after 9:30 p.m., when Boras called the Yankees. By then, the game was pretty much up. It was clear to the world there was no team out there offering five or more years, as Boras had been claiming there was. It was clear there was no chance of Damon getting the seven-year, $84 million deal Boras had initially sought. It was clear it was either going to be the Yankees or the Red Sox. And it was clear that Boras and Damon were upset with the plodding pace of Boston's disjointed, crumbling off-season.

So, Boras called the Yankees, who were holding firm in their position that they would not offer Damon more than four years, and he asked them how much money they were talking about. They told him they'd give Damon the same deal Hideki Matsui got last month -- $13 million a year, the same salary Matsui and Gary Sheffield will make next year playing on either side of Damon in the Yankee Stadium outfield.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1135147727115320.xml&coll=1

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 01:08 AM
...........

Fruity smiley you got there, hubby. :lol:

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:09 AM
Giles is a better overall player than Damon and is cheaper than Damon. And that is the reason why I wanted him.


Giles was never coming here....he just tried using us for leverage

I think Damon is a good signing...especially for 4 years, anything more would have been bad

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:09 AM
Moose's 2004-2005 production can be replaced at about a quarter of the cost. Phil Hughes might even be able to slide in and take Moose's rotation spot. I'm not worried about replacing Moose.
Hughes should be ready in 2008 I would think. 2007 is really pushing it for him. Anyways, yes, Moose hasn't been great in the last 2 seasons, but he is still considered our #2 starter and we will need to get a #2 in there. Given the pitchers market, that's going to be costly.




Youth for the sake of youth isn't helpful. The team has retained Cano and Wang, while filling their CF void with the best available option. What young CFer would you have preferred? Jason Michaels? He's 30. Bubba Crosby? He's 28 and sucks.
Your completely right about that. It's not that Damon at 32 is the problem. It's more that Damon signed to a 4 year deal at 32 is a problem. This team is going to be very old in a few years and I didn't want that to happen. Getting Jason Michaels for a couple seasons and then replacing him with someone younger would have been nice. Getting Jeremy Reed would also have been a nice move.

I'm not upset about this move because of the next couple seasons. I'm upset about this move because I think the Yankees, given our financial advantages, should be a very good team every year and I'm very concerned about the team in the end of Damon's contract.

AlongCameAPrincess
12-21-05, 01:09 AM
This just feels surreal. I was watching ESPNews and they played part of Damon's interview with the radio station and was referring to the Yankees and saying "we." It just sounded strange.

JD Interview?? I missed that. Gonna go see if I catch it.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:11 AM
Giles was never coming here....he just tried using us for leverage

I think Damon is a good signing...especially for 4 years, anything more would have been bad
I know. I wanted to sign him but he wasn't coming. I'm not upset we didn't sign him because we couldn't.

Let me ask you this. Would you have been upset if this deal was 5/53?

One last thing, are you f*cking kidding me with that Ranger loss tonight? I can't believe we lost that game.

bigguygonz
12-21-05, 01:11 AM
http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/108/8202/640/Here%27s%20Johnny%21%21%21.jpg
Here's Johnny!!! Though I wish it hadn't happened, I welcome you nonetheless. Don't suck...

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 01:11 AM
This just feels surreal. I was watching ESPNews and they played part of Damon's interview with the radio station and was referring to the Yankees and saying "we." It just sounded strange.

Anyway, although I wasn't happy about this signing at first, there are a few positives. He is a good lead-off hitter and can cover a lot of ground. Also, we no longer have to worry about him hurting us in the postseason (2004 comes to mind).

It's going to be strange but he is a Yankee, and I guess I must come to terms with that and accept it.

It was weird hearing him refer to the Yankees as "we". O_o

I wonder how Manny, Ortiz and "The Mouth" feel about this. It'll be interesting to hear their comments in the next few days.

Jace
12-21-05, 01:11 AM
We have 13 pitchers and we don't need a CF. insane trade mania for a defensive RF and 1B/DH commence now now now

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 01:11 AM
Giles was never coming here....he just tried using us for leverage

I think Damon is a good signing...especially for 4 years, anything more would have been bad
Furthermore, I still don't think Giles could've played CF. I wasn't in favor of signing Damon, but at four years I can live with it.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:13 AM
So prove to me how he's a better overall player besides giving me his OBP and slugging percentage?
He created 130 runs last season in the worst hitters park in the league while Damon created 104 runs last season in a great hitters park.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=NL&pos=RF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=AL&pos=CF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

If they played in a similar ballpark, Giles would have created much more runs.

bigguygonz
12-21-05, 01:13 AM
It was also weird hearing him describe himself as the beast leadoff hitter in baseball. Ego? Will he lose his powers when he cuts his hair (a la Sampson).

bigguygonz
12-21-05, 01:15 AM
He created 130 runs last season in the worst hitters park in the league while Damon created 104 runs last season in a great hitters park.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=NL&pos=RF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=AL&pos=CF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

If they played in a similar ballpark, Giles would have created much more runs.

Did they play all of their 162 games at home?

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:15 AM
Furthermore, I still don't think Giles could've played CF. I wasn't in favor of signing Damon, but at four years I can live with it.


agreed...honestly, at first I did not want Damon. But understanding that the options for us to play CF next year were limited, I started to warm up to the idea. And for 4 years?? I'll take it. He's only 32 and he has been healthy his entire career. I dont see why he cant be productive throughtout this contract. Nowadays, players remain effective into their mid/late 30's

everyone wants to bring up Bernie...but Bernie is a guy who always had injury problems, even in his younger days.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:15 AM
Fruity smiley you got there, hubby. :lol:

:lol: Are there any masculine smiley kisses out there? Gee whiz, I don't know how to make my wife happy anymore.

True Yankee-ette13
12-21-05, 01:16 AM
It was also weird hearing him describe himself as the beast leadoff hitter in baseball. Ego? Will he lose his powers when he cuts his hair (a la Sampson).

Oh, he has a huge ego. :lol:

He's obviously not the brightest crayon in the box, so I doubt his comments are said with any malice. I just find them funny. :lol:

keyserhh
12-21-05, 01:16 AM
The extra hurt is that it takes away from the Red Sox....I think this seals the deal with the Yankees finishing above Boston next year.

I am more excited to see Red Sox fans react that actually see Damon as a Yankee!!!!!!!!

this kind of thinking is what perpetuates the yankees mediocrity (or sub-excellence) - the unwillingness to re-tool. sure, damon makes the yankees incrementally better next year, but, a) certainly not to the extent people are thinking (bank on a 780 ops and a ZR that makes up worse than 75% of starting ML centerfielders)

where it hurts the yankees is in years 2-4, which no one in the yankees FO or alot of the fanbase seems to notice. fail to win the WS this year (and its doubful that damon will put the ys over the top) and the yankees have another albatross contract at another critical position.

laugh at the new sox FO all you want over losing damon, but they are sticking to their approach - getting rid of some of theo's blunders (renteria and now it looks like clement), not overpaying for overrated FAs, and retaining or obtaining top-notch prospects.

this may not matter too much to the yankees, who dont need to retool with their spending limits, but as an objective fan of neither of these 2 teams, its not difficult to see who has been playing it wiser.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:16 AM
It was weird hearing him refer to the Yankees as "we". O_o

I wonder how Manny, Ortiz and "The Mouth" feel about this. It'll be interesting to hear their comments in the next few days.

Expect to hear the Sox FO get in subtle jabs first. It's the way they operate.

flymick24
12-21-05, 01:17 AM
so does anyone actually think this was a cashman signing?

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:17 AM
I don't like how ESPN is now talking about the Yankees CFers with DiMaggio then Mantle then Bernie and now... Damon. It just ain't right.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:18 AM
Your completely right about that. It's not that Damon at 32 is the problem. It's more that Damon signed to a 4 year deal at 32 is a problem. This team is going to be very old in a few years and I didn't want that to happen. Getting Jason Michaels for a couple seasons and then replacing him with someone younger would have been nice. Getting Jeremy Reed would also have been a nice move.

I agree with you that Reed is probably the best option, but I'm not entirely convinced that he was truly available. I'm sure that if Seattle were shopping him, the asking price started with Wang. I'd much prefer to sign Damon than trade Wang for the unproven Reed. If Boston turns around and can trade Clement for Reed, I'll be ticked, but for the time being I'm pretty pleased with the Damon signing.

Also keep in mind that guys like Eric Duncan will be at the MLB level in a few years. The great Yankee teams of the past always had a mix of older veterans and younger guys...while Jeter, ARod, Damon, etc will all be older, Cano will be entering his prime and Duncan will be coming into his own.

As long as this deal was made with a PLAN in mind, I have no problem with it. The Yankees have gotten themselves into trouble the past few offseasons by only looking ahead one year at a time. Given our financial resources, if the Yankees can hang onto their prospects while using free agency to plug the holes (as they did with CF), then there will really be no beating them.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:18 AM
so does anyone actually think this was a cashman signing?

For Cashman fans who don't like the trade, no. ;)

27IsNext
12-21-05, 01:18 AM
Lead-off hitter controversy! ;)

27IsNext
12-21-05, 01:19 AM
For Cashman fans who don't like it, no. ;)

What's the opinion of Cashman for those who don't like him, Dotel deal considered?

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:19 AM
Lead-off hitter controversy! ;)

Oh they'll find their way on base for the boopers either way. :D

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:20 AM
Did they play all of their 162 games at home?
Nope, they played half. How does that change the point?

Giles numbers at home: .267/.378/.417. Giles numbers away: .333/.463/.545. Yeah, I'd say that park hurt him - as it hurts everyone greatly.

But this isn't about Giles vs. Damon. We couldn't have gotten Giles. This was just about a poster asking me why I wanted Giles for 3 seasons and didn't want Damon for 4. That's the reason.

Jace
12-21-05, 01:20 AM
so does anyone actually think this was a cashman signing?

George told him to sign Damon at the lowest cost he could or else. Cashman was like aight.

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:20 AM
I agree with you that Reed is probably the best option, but I'm not entirely convinced that he was truly available. I'm sure that if Seattle were shopping him, the asking price started with Wang. I'd much prefer to sign Damon than trade Wang for the unproven Reed. If Boston turns around and can trade Clement for Reed, I'll be ticked, but for the time being I'm pretty pleased with the Damon signing.

Also keep in mind that guys like Eric Duncan will be at the MLB level in a few years. The great Yankee teams of the past always had a mix of older veterans and younger guys...while Jeter, ARod, Damon, etc will all be older, Cano will be entering his prime and Duncan will be coming into his own.

As long as this deal was made with a PLAN in mind, I have no problem with it. The Yankees have gotten themselves into trouble the past few offseasons by only looking ahead one year at a time. Given our financial resources, if the Yankees can hang onto their prospects while using free agency to plug the holes (as they did with CF), then there will really be no beating them.


Reed would have been a good fit...but by the looks of things, Cashman had zero interest in him.

bigguygonz
12-21-05, 01:21 AM
I don't like how ESPN is now talking about the Yankees CFers with DiMaggio then Mantle then Bernie and now... Damon. It just ain't right.

It's about ratings with the Worldwide Leader, not respect.

mickey mantle
12-21-05, 01:21 AM
George told him to sign Damon at the lowest cost he could or else. Cashman was like aight.

haha well said

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:22 AM
What's the opinion of Cashman for those who don't like him, Dotel deal considered?

Hey, Dotel and Damon on the same day? Somebody did a great job, and I suspect all these moves had Cashman's blessings.

Jace
12-21-05, 01:22 AM
He created 130 runs last season in the worst hitters park in the league while Damon created 104 runs last season in a great hitters park.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=NL&pos=RF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=offense&linesToDisplay=30&sortBy=rc&thenBy=rcPerGame&teamAbbr=Tm&leagueAbbr=AL&pos=CF&qualified=Yes&Submit=Submit

If they played in a similar ballpark, Giles would have created much more runs.

I think last year Fenway was average run-wise (it wasn't a hitters or pitchers park). There was a stat I saw, like Runs+ and Fenway was like 101.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:24 AM
so does anyone actually think this was a cashman signing?

Yes, as a matter of fact. Buster Olney made a good observation in that this deal was consummated on the eve of the non-tender deadline. Cashman clearly used the availability of those non-tenders to leverage his negotiations with Boras. I think Damon was ALWAYS the first choice for CF, but rather than show his hand, Cashman was content to sit back, observe the FA market, and make a play for Damon once his alternatives had been established (overpay for a Michaels type player, sign Corey Patterson, etc).

Well played by Cashman. If this had been a Tampa/Steinbrenner move, we'd have been reading newspaper reports since October about how the Yanks were aggressively going after Damon. Cash likes to play it close to the vest, a la the ARod negotiations.

Jace
12-21-05, 01:24 AM
Plus Johnny doesn't have opposite field power, thus his power is hurt by Fenway's large right field and he doesn't use the Monster.

I don't know the exact effect this has. But I think its a factor.

edit: I think Damon actually has better home stats than away. Other than crowd mojo I really can't explain that.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:24 AM
What's the opinion of Cashman for those who don't like him, Dotel deal considered?

For whatever it's worth, my take on the Dotel deal:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.php?p=2967962&postcount=149

27IsNext
12-21-05, 01:25 AM
Hey, Dotel and Damon on the same day? Somebody did a great job, and I suspect all these moves had Cashman's blessings.

Just don't forget, someone's AUTONONOUS.

bigguygonz
12-21-05, 01:25 AM
Nope, they played half. How does that change the point?

Giles numbers at home: .267/.378/.417. Giles numbers away: .333/.463/.545. Yeah, I'd say that park hurt him - as it hurts everyone greatly.

But this isn't about Giles vs. Damon. We couldn't have gotten Giles. This was just about a poster asking me why I wanted Giles for 3 seasons and didn't want Damon for 4. That's the reason.

Oh, I just caught the last couple of posts and it seemed like you were arguing that Giles is a better player and using his home park to explain the disparity.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:26 AM
Just don't forget, someone's AUTONONOUS.

But he had to call Georgie up to get his approval on the Dotel deal. ;)

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:26 AM
I agree with you that Reed is probably the best option, but I'm not entirely convinced that he was truly available. I'm sure that if Seattle were shopping him, the asking price started with Wang. I'd much prefer to sign Damon than trade Wang for the unproven Reed. If Boston turns around and can trade Clement for Reed, I'll be ticked, but for the time being I'm pretty pleased with the Damon signing.

Also keep in mind that guys like Eric Duncan will be at the MLB level in a few years. The great Yankee teams of the past always had a mix of older veterans and younger guys...while Jeter, ARod, Damon, etc will all be older, Cano will be entering his prime and Duncan will be coming into his own.

As long as this deal was made with a PLAN in mind, I have no problem with it. The Yankees have gotten themselves into trouble the past few offseasons by only looking ahead one year at a time. Given our financial resources, if the Yankees can hang onto their prospects while using free agency to plug the holes (as they did with CF), then there will really be no beating them.
I'm worried that the prospects coming in will not outweight he financial costs of the older guys. Yes, we had veterans and younger guys during our great years, but those veterans were not guys that were at the end of huge deals and were past their prime. We never had $60 million tied up in 4 players that were 34 and 35 years old (or however much $60 million was worth then given the payrolls).

Let me put it this way. I was already concerned about this team in a few seasons when we signed Matsui. Now that we signed Damon to a 4 year deal, I'm much more concerned.

Bernie really hurt us this year at the end of his contract at the age of 36. How much is Damon, Jeter, and Matsui going to hurt us at 35 at the end of their contracts? (I don't know by the way, this is a question that is open to all. But I think we can all agree that their defense will not be as good as it has been. In fact, it will most likely be much worse - and their offense will also not be as good. How much is up in the air).

As for Reed, I guess we will wait and see what is given up for him - or if he is traded at all.

Once again, I think this trade helps us big time in our goal of winning the WS next year. And that is something I obviously am a big fan of. I just think that this deal also doesn't think about the team 3 and 4 years from now.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:28 AM
It's about ratings with the Worldwide Leader, not respect.
I know, I just don't like it.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 01:28 AM
But he had to call Georgie up to get his approval on the Dotel deal. ;)

And I actually have to ask my friend if he'll give me the Red Sox Damon T-shirt. Doesn't mean I don't have autonomy in my desire to acquire it. :P

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:29 AM
I think last year Fenway was average run-wise (it wasn't a hitters or pitchers park). There was a stat I saw, like Runs+ and Fenway was like 101.
Yeah, that seems about right. But PETCO was a huge pitchers park and Giles home/away splits show that. And he still created 26 more runs than Damon.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:29 AM
And I actually have to ask my friend if he'll give me the Red Sox Damon T-shirt. Doesn't mean I don't have autonomy in my desire to acquire it. :P

Now how can I argue with an analogy like this one?

27IsNext
12-21-05, 01:32 AM
http://img.zazzle.com/mem/D64D1804-81D7-4F4E-91BD-0FFC3955806F.jpg

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:34 AM
Just heard Damon's interview on ESPN...he really doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Seems excited about coming to the Yanks though.

Interesting stat...last season Damon batted .312 and grounded into 12 DPs. Yankee leadoff hitters batted .289 and grounded into 35 DPs.

Yank'sFan83
12-21-05, 01:35 AM
Maybe all these people that are upset with the Damon signing have forgotten about a little scrappy lead off hitter we used to have. Remember back in our championship years 1998-2000 thatís right Chuck Knoblauch. Now we have that again in Johnny Damon a scrappy lead off hitter with pop. Come on guys Jeter is not as scrappy as Damon he's more aggressive therefore does not work the count as well. Also, if you guys remember when chucky batted lead off Jeter batted second and what did we get off that 3 championships. Hopefully Damon/Jeter will have the same effect as Knoblauch/Jeter did. :NY: :NY: :NY:

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:38 AM
Just heard Damon's interview on ESPN...he really doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Seems excited about coming to the Yanks though.

Interesting stat...last season Damon batted .312 and grounded into 12 DPs. Yankee leadoff hitters batted .289 and grounded into 35 DPs.
Oh, he's definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Not really a knock on him, but I've also noticed that given his interviews.

The DP's is definitely important. Still though, a great quality of Damon's is that he is a very good leadoff hitter, and that's something we didn't need because Jeter already is a great leadoff hitter.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:38 AM
Here's what I like about Damon: 69 K's in 2005 to Jeter's 117. It almost seems like every one of those 117 came at crucial times.

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:40 AM
Oh, he's definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Not really a knock on him, but I've also noticed that given his interviews.

The DP's is definitely important. Still though, a great quality of Damon's is that he is a very good leadoff hitter, and that's something we didn't need because Jeter already is a great leadoff hitter.


we essentially now have the 2 best leadoff hitters in baseball right now. And more importantly...it moves ARod down to #3 where he belongs. I expect more RBI opportunities for ARod, Sheff and Matsui

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:40 AM
Maybe all these people that are upset with the Damon signing have forgotten about a little scrappy lead off hitter we used to have. Remember back in our championship years 1998-2000 thatís right Chuck Knoblauch. Now we have that again in Johnny Damon a scrappy lead off hitter with pop. Come on guys Jeter is not as scrappy as Damon he's more aggressive therefore does not work the count as well. Also, if you guys remember when chucky batted lead off Jeter batted second and what did we get off that 3 championships. Hopefully Damon/Jeter will have the same effect as Knoblauch/Jeter did. :NY: :NY: :NY:
So now we won our championships because of Chuck Knoblauch? If you say so... I thought it was more because we had better pitching then and better defense. In fact, we scored more runs per game in many of the playoff series in which we lost but didn't have Chuck than playoff series that we won but did have Chuck.

By the way, your statement that Jeter doesn't work the count as well as Damon is just factually incorrect. Jeter saw more pitches per AB than Damon last season. That's a fact.

DontHateOnNumber2
12-21-05, 01:42 AM
Aw man....I didn't see this coming at all. I guess I'll have to cheer for him, I mean...he is a Yankee. That sounds so weird....well...goodbye Bubba I suppose.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:43 AM
Here's what I like about Damon: 69 K's in 2005 to Jeter's 117. It almost seems like every one of those 117 came at crucial times.
Good number. But, Jeter also saw more pitches per AB than Damon and had a better OBP.

Maybe most importantly, and something I haven't mentioned yet, is now that Jeter is back in the 2 spot, I fear that he will start Damon over in the 1st innings whenever Damon gets on base. I HATED when Jeter was doing that all the time. He's way too good to be wasting outs in the 1st innings of games.

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 01:43 AM
I like this signing for the first 2-3 years. After that, not so much. Our defense is improved - not a tremendous amount - but it is improved, and our offense is definetely improved.

Cashman did a very good job here of bargaining, and it sounds like it really only took a couple hours to consumate.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:45 AM
The DP's is definitely important. Still though, a great quality of Damon's is that he is a very good leadoff hitter, and that's something we didn't need because Jeter already is a great leadoff hitter.

Keep in mind though that Jeter DID contribute to those 35 GIDPs. Also, we haven't had much of a #2 hitter these past few seasons. It was a waste for Joe to use ARod or Matsui in the two slot, and I never had enough enough confidence in Cano to bat #2 either. I think the tandem of Damon/Jetes at the top of the lineup is going to be SICK, particularly with our stable of RBI guys following them (ARod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui).

It's gonna be a good year. :)

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:47 AM
Good number. But, Jeter also saw more pitches per AB than Damon and had a better OBP.

Maybe most importantly, and something I haven't mentioned yet, is now that Jeter is back in the 2 spot, I fear that he will start Damon over in the 1st innings whenever Damon gets on base. I HATED when Jeter was doing that all the time. He's way too good to be wasting outs in the 1st innings of games.

I hear ya. But what stats don't tell you about those K's is that Damon is putting the ball into play - possibly moving runners over, while Jeter is more apt to K and kill a rally.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:48 AM
Oh, he's definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Not really a knock on him, but I've also noticed that given his interviews.

Is it wrong that I kind of LIKE this? :)

Seriously, it'll be interesting to have a guy like Damon on the team, who seems like a goofy guy who will just say whatever's on his mind. A nice contrast to guys like ARod and Jeter.

I feel like that in addition to improving the team tangibly, Cashman is trying to give the team an attitude makeover as well. Guys like Farnsworth and Damon have some swagger, something that the Yanks (short of RJ and Sheff) have been lacking in recent years.

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 01:49 AM
Forgot to mention, I actually liked Buster Olney's article tongiht, I thought it really made sense, which for ESPN is.... weird.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=2267080

That being said, I do think Olney is a very good writer.... his book on the Yanks dynasty was terrific...

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:51 AM
Aside from money, I'm sure Damon looked at all the new faces on the new Sox and said to himself, "What have these guys proven?" I think he went with the surer thing.

bakntime
12-21-05, 01:52 AM
Damon is pesky as hell. Who here didn't hate having him come up with runners in scoring position? Low K and DP totals are good. He's the kind of hitter that we haven't had much of these last few years - those pesky contact hitters that drive pitchers nuts.

The right field porch and the larger gap in left center field might even result in more HRs and doubles.

It could have been worse.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 01:53 AM
It could have been worse.

And I'm not sure it could have been better with whomever the Yanks would have gone with had Damon not signed.

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 01:53 AM
Just heard Damon's interview on ESPN...he really doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Seems excited about coming to the Yanks though.
FWIW, Damon has a speech impediment (a major stutter, I believe) that he's worked really hard to address.

I'm not saying he's Einstein or anything, but as someone who overcame a lesser stutter as a kid, I can tell you that could affect the content of his answers to the press. (There are certain words you just can't or don't want to say, and your speech patterns can sound weird.)

ryanthe13th
12-21-05, 01:53 AM
Offensively, this is a good move. Defensively, this is an atrocious move. Nobody is arguing Damon's bat, even though he is not a better lead off hitter than Derek Jeter. What people are arguing is that Damon is NOT a defensive upgrade for us in the long run. I suspected that Damon was going to be on this team for quite sometime, and I pretty much KNEW Damon wasn't going to be on this team when Garciaparra went and signed with the Dodgers(AKA the Blue Sox). I'm disappointed that Cashman did not pull the trigger on the Jeremy Reed trade, as now Boston is pretty much stupid if they don't trade David Wells/Matt Clement/Bronson Arroyo for him. In the long run, we've basically added Damon to the "WAITING TO DH" list.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:54 AM
Aside from money, I'm sure Damon looked at all the new faces on the new Sox and said to himself, "What have these guys proven?" I think he went with the surer thing.

Good point. In the past two offseasons, the Sox have let Pedro and Lowe leave the rotation, have played shortstop roulette, and now old standbys like Mueller and Millar are walking away. On top of all that, now Manny is requesting a trade. Damon might have seen the writing on the wall and made out while the gettin' was good.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:55 AM
Keep in mind though that Jeter DID contribute to those 35 GIDPs. Also, we haven't had much of a #2 hitter these past few seasons. It was a waste for Joe to use ARod or Matsui in the two slot, and I never had enough enough confidence in Cano to bat #2 either. I think the tandem of Damon/Jetes at the top of the lineup is going to be SICK, particularly with our stable of RBI guys following them (ARod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui).

It's gonna be a good year. :)
Yes he did, and that is one thing that Damon is better than Jeter at.

I don't think it's much of a waste to use A-Rod in the 2 spot. After the 1st inning, the lineup becomes circular and A-Rod and his .420 OBP is a nice thing to be in the 2 spot and thus get the 2nd most AB's of the team.

Yes, it should be a good year. I am now just hopeful that the pitching staff will hold up. I think that should be the big concern for all of us.

One last thing, how does this deal compare to the Furcal deal? I mean, it just seems to me that Furcal is a much younger player on the rise and Damon is an older player on the decline and they both got the same amount of $$ per year but Damon got an extra year. I guess there's no reason to bring it up, but LA got a lot of flack for giving Furcal his deal.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:55 AM
FWIW, Damon has a speech impediment (a major stutter, I believe) that he's worked really hard to address.

I'm not saying he's Einstein or anything, but as someone who overcame a lesser stutter as a kid, I can tell you that could affect the content of his answers to the press. (There are certain words you just can't or don't want to say, and your speech patterns can sound weird.)
I either didn't know that or forgot about it. That definitely explains some things.

ryanthe13th
12-21-05, 01:56 AM
The media is ignoring the statistics of this because it is the Yankees vs Red Sox rivalry. If Damon had come from any other team, than they would be reporting about Damon's poor arm and Jeter's better numbers than Damon in the lead off hole. Instead, the juicier story is "THE YANKS STEAL DAMON FROM THE BOSOX"

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 01:57 AM
FWIW, Damon has a speech impediment (a major stutter, I believe) that he's worked really hard to address.

I'm not saying he's Einstein or anything, but as someone who overcame a lesser stutter as a kid, I can tell you that could affect the content of his answers to the press. (There are certain words you just can't or don't want to say, and your speech patterns can sound weird.)

Thanks for the heads-up Miami...I had no idea.

Didn't mean to be offensive, I didn't know he had a problem. Good for him for working to overcome his problem.

I still think he's a goofball though. :)

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 01:58 AM
Yes he did, and that is one thing that Damon is better than Jeter at.

I don't think it's much of a waste to use A-Rod in the 2 spot. After the 1st inning, the lineup becomes circular and A-Rod and his .420 OBP is a nice thing to be in the 2 spot and thus get the 2nd most AB's of the team.

Yes, it should be a good year. I am now just hopeful that the pitching staff will hold up. I think that should be the big concern for all of us.

One last thing, how does this deal compare to the Furcal deal? I mean, it just seems to me that Furcal is a much younger player on the rise and Damon is an older player on the decline and they both got the same amount of $$ per year but Damon got an extra year. I guess there's no reason to bring it up, but LA got a lot of flack for giving Furcal his deal.


I was never a big fan of ARod in the #2 spot. I want ARod worrying about trying to hit the ball out of the park and driving in runs....not trying to get on base, which is the job of a #2 hitter

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 01:58 AM
I hear ya. But what stats don't tell you about those K's is that Damon is putting the ball into play - possibly moving runners over, while Jeter is more apt to K and kill a rally.
And if there's a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs, Damon is the better guy to get the run in. No doubt about that. The K hurts the team as it is practically the worst thing one can do.

Zimmers' Helmet
12-21-05, 02:00 AM
Nope, they played half. How does that change the point?

Giles numbers at home: .267/.378/.417. Giles numbers away: .333/.463/.545. Yeah, I'd say that park hurt him - as it hurts everyone greatly.

But this isn't about Giles vs. Damon. We couldn't have gotten Giles. This was just about a poster asking me why I wanted Giles for 3 seasons and didn't want Damon for 4. That's the reason.

So it was OK to sign Giles, with very limited experience in CF who also happens to be 3 years older than Damon; but not Damon who actually plugs a major weakness on this roster because he's too old? :confused:

Signing Johnny Damon to four years when there were no better options available was a good business deal for the Yankees only because it was necessary.

The Yankees needed someone who could :

A) Help Derek Jeter set the table at the top of the lineup.

and

B) Play CF

Damon fills both needs. Giles doesn't.

Do your stats show you that?

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 02:00 AM
Thanks for the heads-up Miami...I had no idea.

Didn't mean to be offensive, I didn't know he had a problem. Good for him for working to overcome his problem.

I still think he's a goofball though. :)
No offense taken.

And I agree he's a goofball. He's OUR goofball now, though...

laststop3641
12-21-05, 02:00 AM
i feel sick

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:00 AM
Is it wrong that I kind of LIKE this? :)

Seriously, it'll be interesting to have a guy like Damon on the team, who seems like a goofy guy who will just say whatever's on his mind. A nice contrast to guys like ARod and Jeter.

I feel like that in addition to improving the team tangibly, Cashman is trying to give the team an attitude makeover as well. Guys like Farnsworth and Damon have some swagger, something that the Yanks (short of RJ and Sheff) have been lacking in recent years.
I wonder how much that goofyness helps the team. A guy like Farnsworth is a little differnent because I feel that he's a guy that will pitch inside and is obviously not afraid to fight - and teamates respect that I'm sure. I don't know if Damon is really helping us out in that respect. But, if he keeps the clubhouse loose in a tense time, maybe that helps out - although as a 1st year guy, who knows.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:02 AM
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Sheffield
4. A-Rod
5. Matsui
6. Giambi
7. Bernie
8. Posada
9. Cano

Plus the Sox are weakened and will have to give up somebody of worth to get anyone decent to play CF.

How can you not like this?

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:02 AM
So it was OK to sign Giles, with very limited experience in CF who also happens to be 3 years older than Damon; but not Damon who actually plugs a major weakness on this roster because he's too old? :confused:
Just for the record, from the beginning I wanted to sign Giles to play RF and Jacque Jones to play CF. But yes, I would have rather had Giles to play CF than Damon to play CF. The reason for that is that Giles is the better player and came off one of his best seasons, while Damon has shown a decline and came off a season where he declined - especially in the power department.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:03 AM
I was never a big fan of ARod in the #2 spot. I want ARod worrying about trying to hit the ball out of the park and driving in runs....not trying to get on base, which is the job of a #2 hitter
I think A-Rod's fine in every spot to be honest. A-Rod was my 2nd choice and Giambi was my 1st.

dabomb2045
12-21-05, 02:04 AM
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Sheffield
4. A-Rod
5. Matsui
6. Giambi
7. Bernie
8. Posada
9. Cano

Plus the Sox are weakened and will have to give up somebody of worth to get anyone decent to play CF.

How can you not like this?

sign Erubiel Durazo to get some time at DH/1B....and I'll be ecstatic

bakntime
12-21-05, 02:04 AM
And I'm not sure it could have been better with whomever the Yanks would have gone with had Damon not signed.I certainly like this option over trading for some unproven "young guy" in the #9 slot who might bat .250 if they're lucky just becuase his defense is reported to be "not too shabby."

We give up nothing but money in this deal, and while the Yankees might be trying to appear as though they're cash strapped, that's not the case. Just because they didn't throw a ridiculous amount of money at Beltran, for example, doesn't mean they can't spend. With the added revenue coming from the new stadium, coupled with the reduced revenue sharing money associated with its construction, the Yankees don't have to be cheap... but appearing to be cheap has the advantage of players and their agents not being able to hold the Yankees for ransom like has happened in the past.

I really wasn't enthralled with the other options out there. I'm not completely enthralled with Damon either, but this makes the team better. Any move that makes the team better, and doesn't prevent improvement in other areas is a good move.

KLJ
12-21-05, 02:04 AM
this is a great day for the yankees.. the deal is 1 year too long but the yanks had no choice... apparently cashman did learn from last year and realized there is no way we could go into next year with a black hole in cf..

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 02:05 AM
FWIW, Damon has a speech impediment (a major stutter, I believe) that he's worked really hard to address.

I'm not saying he's Einstein or anything, but as someone who overcame a lesser stutter as a kid, I can tell you that could affect the content of his answers to the press. (There are certain words you just can't or don't want to say, and your speech patterns can sound weird.)

I have a minor stutter too, the problem is, I'll try to say a word, and my mouth will lock up I can't say the word. Usually I know when it's about to lock up, and I can find a differnet word, but it makes me hard to understand sometimes....

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:05 AM
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Sheffield
4. A-Rod
5. Matsui
6. Giambi
7. Bernie
8. Posada
9. Cano

Plus the Sox are weakened and will have to give up somebody of worth to get anyone decent to play CF.

How can you not like this?
I don't like Bernie as our everyday DH at all. I'd prefer playing Andy Phillips in LF/RF/1B and DHing whichever guy is getting that day off.

MisterNovember
12-21-05, 02:05 AM
I wonder how much that goofyness helps the team. A guy like Farnsworth is a little differnent because I feel that he's a guy that will pitch inside and is obviously not afraid to fight - and teamates respect that I'm sure. I don't know if Damon is really helping us out in that respect. But, if he keeps the clubhouse loose in a tense time, maybe that helps out - although as a 1st year guy, who knows.

I guess what I mean about Damon is that he's the kind of gritty, balls-to-the-wall player that the Yanks really haven't had in awhile outside of maybe Jeter. Cashman has been talking a lot about "diversifying" the team, and a scrappy guy with some speed who likes to crash into the OF walls isn't necessarily a bad thing. On top of that, he seems like a well-liked "clubhouse guy".

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:06 AM
sign Erubiel Durazo to get some time at DH/1B....and I'll be ecstatic

PERFECT. My biggest concern happens to be Giambi.

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 02:08 AM
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Sheffield
4. A-Rod
5. Matsui
6. Giambi
7. Bernie
8. Posada
9. Cano

Plus the Sox are weakened and will have to give up somebody of worth to get anyone decent to play CF.

How can you not like this?

Cano 7, Bernie or Phillips or whoever DH's 9th. Other than that, yea, that is a really kickass lineup

I guess what I mean about Damon is that he's the kind of gritty, balls-to-the-wall player that the Yanks really haven't had in awhile outside of maybe Jeter. Cashman has been talking a lot about "diversifying" the team, and a scrappy guy with some speed who likes to crash into the OF walls isn't necessarily a bad thing. On top of that, he seems like a well-liked "clubhouse guy".

That's what I like about him. Him slowing down will be mitigated a little bit by the fact that he will exert EVERYTHING HE HAS to get to the ball.

I love a player like that. New York will love him.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:09 AM
I don't like Bernie as our everyday DH at all. I'd prefer playing Andy Phillips in LF/RF/1B and DHing whichever guy is getting that day off.

I'm not sold on Phillips and his inability to hit major league breaking balls, as is his rap. Maybe with some playing time he'll improve. I hope.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 02:10 AM
Think of how sweet this would have been had we signed Damon AND Nomar...

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:10 AM
I guess what I mean about Damon is that he's the kind of gritty, balls-to-the-wall player that the Yanks really haven't had in awhile outside of maybe Jeter. Cashman has been talking a lot about "diversifying" the team, and a scrappy guy with some speed who likes to crash into the OF walls isn't necessarily a bad thing. On top of that, he seems like a well-liked "clubhouse guy".
No, it's a good thing. Damon is a good player and I think he will be for the next couple years. I'm just worried about the length.

I have practically never had a problem rooting for a Yankee and maybe I'm just a bit upset that I'll have a problem rooting for Damon. I just don't like him. Maybe I just need him to score the winning run after stealing 2B in the 9th or getting a game winning hit for me to not feel sick about the whole thing, I don't know. But, I do know that I'm not happy about the team in 4 seasons.

Question: Did Damon say anything bad about A-Rod when all the Sox players came out against him saying he wasn't a true Yankee? Or did he say anything in his book about A-Rod? I don't remember him saying anything off the top of my head, but maybe someone else has a better memory of it all.

NYYBombshell
12-21-05, 02:11 AM
Please let this not blow up in our faces.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:11 AM
Cano 7, Bernie or Phillips or whoever DH's 9th. Other than that, yea, that is a really kickass lineup



I always prefer the better hitter in the 9 spot, closer to the top of the order.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:12 AM
I'm not sold on Phillips and his inability to hit major league breaking balls, as is his rap. Maybe with some playing time he'll improve. I hope.
Yeah, but you sure as hell can't have a guy with an OPS+ of 81 last year to be the everyday DH.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:12 AM
Please let this not blow up in our faces.

Why would it? Damon is a proven player.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:13 AM
Yeah, but you sure as hell can't have a guy with an OPS+ of 81 last year to be the everyday DH.

It's why i like dabomb's suggestion - Durazo. In the "2006 complete" thread my biggest concern is 1b/DH which goes hand in hand I think.

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 02:13 AM
I have a minor stutter too, the problem is, I'll try to say a word, and my mouth will lock up I can't say the word. Usually I know when it's about to lock up, and I can find a differnet word, but it makes me hard to understand sometimes....
Yup. That still happens to me on occasion too, so I'm really sympathetic to Damon in this regard.

NYYBombshell
12-21-05, 02:14 AM
Why would it? Damon is a proven player.


I just don't know. I know he's a proven player, we've seen his handiwork. I'm just not sold on him yet.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:16 AM
I just don't know. I know he's a proven player, we've seen his handiwork. I'm just not sold on him yet.

He's been doing it well for every one of his 10 years and isn't showing any signs that it won't continue.

You're gonna love him and what he brings once you see him in the Yankee lineup mix. That's my guaranty to you.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 02:17 AM
I think we need to do that Sturtze and Henn/Proctor for Jason Michaels deal, stick him in RF, and move Sheffield to 1B/DH.

1.) SS Derek Jeter
2.) CF Johnny Damon
3.) DH Jason Giambi
4.) 3B Alex Rodriguez
5.) 1B Gary Sheffield
6.) LF Hideki Matsui
7.) RF Jason Michaels
8.) C Jorge Posada
9.) 2B Robinson Cano

Absolutely sick.

HidekiIrabu
12-21-05, 02:17 AM
Hopefully he doesnt get murdered on his first trip to Fenway

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 02:18 AM
I always prefer the better hitter in the 9 spot, closer to the top of the order.

With this lineup, it really wont matter. Where is the easier stretch? Batters 7/8 or batters 8/9?

Pick your poison. I rather it be 8/9, have Robbie protected by Matsui or whoever bats 6th.... Damon's protection is behind him....

MiamiKat
12-21-05, 02:18 AM
Question: Did Damon say anything bad about A-Rod when all the Sox players came out against him saying he wasn't a true Yankee? Or did he say anything in his book about A-Rod? I don't remember him saying anything off the top of my head, but maybe someone else has a better memory of it all.
He slammed A-Rod in the book then apologized for it later on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/296972p-254249c.html

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:18 AM
I think we need to do that Sturtze and Henn/Proctor for Jason Michaels deal, stick him in RF, and move Sheffield to 1B/DH.

1.) SS Derek Jeter
2.) CF Johnny Damon
3.) DH Jason Giambi
4.) 3B Alex Rodriguez
5.) 1B Gary Sheffield
6.) LF Hideki Matsui
7.) RF Jason Michaels
8.) C Jorge Posada
9.) 2B Robinson Cano

Absolutely sick.

Oh....my.....God. If Michael continues his OBP tear, your team won't be stopped.

27IsNext
12-21-05, 02:19 AM
Question: Did Damon say anything bad about A-Rod when all the Sox players came out against him saying he wasn't a true Yankee?

Like Ortiz, Damon never chimed in with them.

Dooley Womack
12-21-05, 02:19 AM
With this lineup, it really wont matter. Where is the easier stretch? Batters 7/8 or batters 8/9?

Pick your poison. I rather it be 8/9, have Robbie protected by Matsui or whoever bats 6th.... Damon's protection is behind him....

It's sick either way. :)

ryanthe13th
12-21-05, 02:20 AM
We're not getting Jason Michaels now.

JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 02:23 AM
He slammed A-Rod in the book then apologized for it later on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/296972p-254249c.html
Not bad.

Jace
12-21-05, 02:23 AM
I think we need to do that Sturtze and Henn/Proctor for Jason Michaels deal, stick him in RF, and move Sheffield to 1B/DH.

1.) SS Derek Jeter
2.) CF Johnny Damon
3.) DH Jason Giambi
4.) 3B Alex Rodriguez
5.) 1B Gary Sheffield
6.) LF Hideki Matsui
7.) RF Jason Michaels
8.) C Jorge Posada
9.) 2B Robinson Cano

Absolutely sick.

Actually, its Jason Gilbert Giambi

Torre, a firm believer in anything he used to do/the media says, will never bat Damon before Jeter.