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Mattinglyrules
12-18-05, 01:23 PM
I know it is pure speculation until it actually happens on Tuesday, I was reading about some possible non-tenders on CBS Sportsline. Some that caught my eye:

RP Joe Borowski: He was the Cub's closer a few years ago, and was incredible for the D-Rays in the 2nd half last year. I know the Yanks are looking for a right-handed reliever to round out the bullpen, and he would come cheap. I don't know if he's a power or finesse pitcher.

CF Corey Patterson: Had an abysmal year last year at the plate for the Cubs. However, he is still only 26, has some speed (30+ steals in 2004) and some pop (20+ HR in 2004). I have no idea how good of a CF he is, though, and that's all the Yanks really need.

SP Kyle Lohse: He's been a decent back-of-the rotation starter for the Twins, although his record wasn't great last year. I see some potential here if the Yanks really wanted to rid themselves of Pavano.

1B Hee Seop-Choi. I've seen others mention him in other threads. I have to admit I know very little of him. Good hands for the bench? What do his numbers look like?

And before anyone starts whaling away at these options, I know they aren't perfect solutions. But there rarely are. And if one notices the trends of recent World Series winners (and even ours when we were winning them), you need some role players on your team to win. These guys would come cheap and could be getting the fresh start they need. What I noticed from this list is that many of them were once "can't miss" prospects that have had trouble for one reason or another. Remember, David Ortiz was one of those, and got the change of scenery he needed. :P

RhodeyYankee2638
12-18-05, 01:25 PM
Kyle Lohse is so painful to watch pitch. He has good stuff, but he is awful

Evil Empire
12-18-05, 01:26 PM
I'd give Corey Patterson a shot. If we didn't have Phillips, I'd say give Hee-Seop a shot as well.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 01:27 PM
I would give Patterson a shot, if our other choice was Bubba. His OBP is so abysmal though

Evil Empire
12-18-05, 01:30 PM
I know the basic gist of Non-tendering, but can someone remind me exactly what it is?

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 01:32 PM
I know the basic gist of Non-tendering, but can someone remind me exactly what it is?

http://baseball.about.com/od/basicrule1/g/nontender.htm
Players with more than three, but fewer than six, years service time (who, therefore, are eligible for arbitration but cannot be free agents automatically when their contract is up) must be offered a contract by an established date in December. They don't have to sign it, but they must be offered a contract. If they are, they remain property of the offering team. If they are not, they become a "non-tender" free agent and are free to sign with any team, including the team that did not offer a contract. Essentially, this deadline is for clubs to maintain their exclusive right to the player.

BJG
12-18-05, 01:34 PM
I know the basic gist of Non-tendering, but can someone remind me exactly what it is?

When a player is arbitration eligible, their team can simply choose to not tender them a contract, thus avoiding the arbitration process and rendering said player a free agent.

Evil Empire
12-18-05, 01:35 PM
When a player is arbitration eligible, their team can simply choose to not tender them a contract, thus avoiding the arbitration process and rendering said player a free agent.


http://baseball.about.com/od/basicrule1/g/nontender.htm
Players with more than three, but fewer than six, years service time (who, therefore, are eligible for arbitration but cannot be free agents automatically when their contract is up) must be offered a contract by an established date in December. They don't have to sign it, but they must be offered a contract. If they are, they remain property of the offering team. If they are not, they become a "non-tender" free agent and are free to sign with any team, including the team that did not offer a contract. Essentially, this deadline is for clubs to maintain their exclusive right to the player.

Thanks to both of you. I better hold onto that glossary link, I could probably use it for other things I have no clue about. :)

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-18-05, 01:36 PM
I would give Patterson a shot, if our other choice was Bubba. His OBP is so abysmal though

The Yankees last year trotted out Al Leiter, Alan Embree, and Mark Bellhorn because they were essentially free after being DFA'ed and also signed Hideo Nomo. I have little doubt that if Patterson is non-tendered that the Yankees will try to sign him. Cashman is refusing to either give up young talent and/or add expensive talent right now and he's going to go for low risk, short term solutions right now.

BJG
12-18-05, 01:36 PM
I would give Patterson a shot, if our other choice was Bubba. His OBP is so abysmal though

I'd rather go the Endy Chavez route.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 01:39 PM
I'd rather go the Endy Chavez route.

I don't think hes a FA, is he? His defense is top notch though

BJG
12-18-05, 01:42 PM
I don't think hes a FA, is he? His defense is top notch though

He's as likely to be non-tendered as Patterson. At least with Endy, you don't get caught up in the notion that he should be a better hitter and playiing him more than you have to.

YankeePride1967
12-18-05, 01:45 PM
I think with this date being two days away it would be fruitful to find out what players are available via this route.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 01:45 PM
He's as likely to be non-tendered as Patterson. At least with Endy, you don't get caught up in the notion that he should be a better hitter and playiing him more than you have to.

True, but with Patterson, he could break out with us, though I wouldn't bet on it.

27IsNext
12-18-05, 01:47 PM
Gary Matthews, Jr. is likely to be non-tendered. I'd pick him up as a stop-gap in CF. I'd also keep pursuing Jason Michaels to play RF, allowing Sheff to move to 1B/DH.

BJG
12-18-05, 01:50 PM
True, but with Patterson, he could break out with us, though I wouldn't bet on it.

That's exactly the kind of thinking I'm afraid of. Patterson isn't going to break out because he isn't a very good baseball player, yet somehow, every year, someone expect that this will be the year he puts it together.

Munson's 'Stash
12-18-05, 02:13 PM
Choi has tons of potential that hasn't been realised (at least according to some scouts); it would likely be wasted on the Yankees bench as many people think his inability to get consistient playing time with the Dodgers hurt his development and production. He has a great batting eye and hits monster shots when he connects, but he has a lot of holes in his swing.

He's also a LHH, and if the Yanks want to have a partner for Giambi they probably want a righty like Phillips (only better).

yanksphan
12-18-05, 02:18 PM
I'm all for getting players off the scrap heap, but I don't see any of the original posters suggested players as being NT'd.

Danny Kolb however is rumored to be NT'd by the Brewers. He might be of some assistance to the pen without having a closers' responsibility laid on him...

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-18-05, 02:24 PM
I'm all for getting players off the scrap heap, but I don't see any of the original posters suggested players as being NT'd.

Danny Kolb however is rumored to be NT'd by the Brewers. He might be of some assistance to the pen without having a closers' responsibility laid on him...

Kolb sucks, in his one chance to pitch in a pressure spot for a good team, he was terrible for Atlanta. He's a relief pitcher who doesn't strike people out and relies on his defense to get outs. For a relief pitcher, you want 1 of 2 things, a guy who can induce double plays or will come in and get strikeouts. Kolb gave up 78 hits in over 58 innings and struck out 39 (and walked 29 too). Playing in a divison with offensive teams like Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore, Kolb would be lit up.

Mattinglyrules
12-18-05, 02:27 PM
I'm all for getting players off the scrap heap, but I don't see any of the original posters suggested players as being NT'd.

Danny Kolb however is rumored to be NT'd by the Brewers. He might be of some assistance to the pen without having a closers' responsibility laid on him...


Just reporting what I read!

yanksphan
12-18-05, 02:31 PM
Just reporting what I read!

Where? I haven't seen any of the listed players rumored to be NT'd. Just media speculation that they could be. I'm not questioning you, just wondering where you've seen this as I'm a proponent of scouring the scrap heap.

There's a quote from the Cubs' GM saying that Patterson is indeed part of the 06 plan (RF in Burnitz' absence). I posted it in the CF possibilities thread.

With Nomar being the injury risk that he is, I can't see the Dodgers letting go of Choi.

Yankees1962
12-18-05, 02:35 PM
Hendry already stated that Patterson will be tendered a contract.

ring403
12-18-05, 02:47 PM
Where? I haven't seen any of the listed players rumored to be NT'd. Just media speculation that they could be. I'm not questioning you, just wondering where you've seen this as I'm a proponent of scouring the scrap heap.

I think he's referring to this article: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051217&content_id=1283469&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

nyyanksfan20
12-18-05, 03:19 PM
I would take Patterson if non-tendered, I doubt he will be though.

Mark19
12-18-05, 03:32 PM
The Pirates may non-tender Craig Wilson and Jody Gerut if they aren't traded.

Both of those guys could be helpful.

yanksphan
12-18-05, 03:45 PM
I think he's referring to this article: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051217&content_id=1283469&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I see. Well, gotta love the hot stove - GMs saying one thing, media speculating another....typical. :)

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 03:59 PM
The Pirates may non-tender Craig Wilson and Jody Gerut if they aren't traded.

Both of those guys could be helpful.

I'd love to get Gerut. He's one of those balls to the wall players that I could definetly go for.

Rotowire on Wilson


It remains to be seen how Wilson, who can play both the outfield and first base, figures into Pittsburgh's plans for the upcoming season. "He's a nice alternative," Littlefield said. "He's somewhere in the mix of right field and first base." Sean Casey is slated to play first base on an every day basis, leaving Wilson to fight over playing time in the outfield. He'll likely form a righty/lefty platoon with Jody Gerut in right field. A trade of Wilson seems to be a real possibility, although Littlefield said his current value is low. "His hand injury does hurt his trade value," the Pirates GM noted. Wilson missed nearly four months of the 2005 season with two separate finger injuries.

Wilson is a nice utility player, he can even catch, but has yet to play center. He hits better VS lefties, so he could be a 1B alternative to Giambi, he also hits better on the road.

The problem is they both have been injured lately. Wilson missed some time with finger injuries as mentioned above, while Jody tore his rotator cuff in 2004.

ring403
12-18-05, 04:09 PM
Willie Harris might be worth a look as a possible utility man, if the White Sox don't tender him. He also has the speed to be a good pinch runner.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 05:59 PM
Willie Harris might be worth a look as a possible utility man, if the White Sox don't tender him. He also has the speed to be a good pinch runner.

Hmmm, I kind of like that idea. He's played just over 100 games as a CFer, but his arm is weak, which would limit his abilities in RF, 3B or as a SS. Haven't read anything about him getting tendered or not.

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-18-05, 06:13 PM
I think we should take a long look at Patterson...

flymick24
12-18-05, 06:13 PM
I know it is pure speculation until it actually happens on Tuesday, I was reading about some possible non-tenders on CBS Sportsline. Some that caught my eye:

RP Joe Borowski: He was the Cub's closer a few years ago, and was incredible for the D-Rays in the 2nd half last year. I know the Yanks are looking for a right-handed reliever to round out the bullpen, and he would come cheap. I don't know if he's a power or finesse pitcher.

CF Corey Patterson: Had an abysmal year last year at the plate for the Cubs. However, he is still only 26, has some speed (30+ steals in 2004) and some pop (20+ HR in 2004). I have no idea how good of a CF he is, though, and that's all the Yanks really need.

SP Kyle Lohse: He's been a decent back-of-the rotation starter for the Twins, although his record wasn't great last year. I see some potential here if the Yanks really wanted to rid themselves of Pavano.

1B Hee Seop-Choi. I've seen others mention him in other threads. I have to admit I know very little of him. Good hands for the bench? What do his numbers look like?

And before anyone starts whaling away at these options, I know they aren't perfect solutions. But there rarely are. And if one notices the trends of recent World Series winners (and even ours when we were winning them), you need some role players on your team to win. These guys would come cheap and could be getting the fresh start they need. What I noticed from this list is that many of them were once "can't miss" prospects that have had trouble for one reason or another. Remember, David Ortiz was one of those, and got the change of scenery he needed. :P

hasn't borowski previously been with the yankees?

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-18-05, 06:16 PM
hasn't borowski previously been with the yankees?

Yes, in 97' and 98', about 12 innings combined and wasn't too good. But he is a local boy from Bayonne...

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 06:23 PM
I think we should take a long look at Patterson...


Cubs GM Jim Hendry said he would tender Corey Patterson a contract before the Dec. 20 arbitration deadline.

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6400

Take that for what it's worth. I would only go with Corey if Bubba was our other option. His OBP is so lethargic

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-18-05, 06:30 PM
http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6400

Take that for what it's worth. I would only go with Corey if Bubba was our other option. His OBP is so lethargic

Yeah, he's not a good hitter at all, but is still young and plays amazing defense...

yank4life2005
12-18-05, 06:37 PM
That's not true. TX will retain Matthews as they try to move Mench. They currently have Mench, Wilkerson, Nix, Matthews, & Dellucci.

I like Jody Gerut if he is 100% healthy.

Mark19
12-18-05, 06:38 PM
That's not true. TX will retain Matthews as they try to move Mench. They currently have Mench, Wilkerson, Nix, Matthews, & Dellucci.

I like Jody Gerut if he is 100% healthy.

Texas also has Terrmel Sledge. They will probably move two outfielders.

yank4life2005
12-18-05, 06:43 PM
Texas also has Terrmel Sledge. They will probably move two outfielders.

Sledge will probably be in the minors. Mench will get traded for sure but I don't think they will let Matthews walk for nothing.

Mark19
12-18-05, 06:54 PM
Sledge will probably be in the minors. Mench will get traded for sure but I don't think they will let Matthews walk for nothing.

Sledge has much more value as a trade chip than rotting away in AAA. Look at his 2004 numbers -- he is a major leaguer.

Spiker101
12-18-05, 07:37 PM
That's exactly the kind of thinking I'm afraid of. Patterson isn't going to break out because he isn't a very good baseball player, yet somehow, every year, someone expect that this will be the year he puts it together.

Corey at age 24, in 2003, had a .840 OPS, hit 13 homers and stole 16 bases, while playing a centerfield just a notch below Jones and Edmonds. In '04 his OPS dropped to .772 but hit 24 homes, while his SBs rose to 32.
Of course, he fell out of bed last season. But to indicate that he doesn't have immense raw talent is ridiculous. The question is whether he's teachable, and Corey wouldn't be the first player who found himself after a change of scenery under a different style coaching. Of course, you try to sign him. At worst he's a better fielding Crosby, at best you might strike it rich.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 07:59 PM
Corey at age 24, in 2003, had a .840 OPS, hit 13 homers and stole 16 bases, while playing a centerfield just a notch below Jones and Edmonds. In '04 his OPS dropped to .772 but hit 24 homes, while his SBs rose to 32.
Of course, he fell out of bed last season. But to indicate that he doesn't have immense raw talent is ridiculous. The question is whether he's teachable, and Corey wouldn't be the first player who found himself after a change of scenery under a different style coaching. Of course, you try to sign him. At worst he's a better fielding Crosby, at best you might strike it rich.

.239, .266, .284, .329, .320, .254. Guess what those numbers are? Patterson's OBP's the first 6 years of his career (though the .239 was 11 games in 2001.) That's a .293 OBP for his career. That's not even close to good. Yes, a change of scenery might help him, and yes, there is a chance he comes here and does good. He plays good defense, but he is so inconsistent and impatient at the plate. I would only make a move on him if we had no other options besides Bubba.

yanksconstantino24
12-18-05, 08:09 PM
Jody Gerut would be a steal if the Yankees got him for nothing. He's a really good player, he just needs to stay healthy.

I think Joe Borowski is also worth a shot. He's really develped since the Yankees had him last.

Galapagos
12-18-05, 08:09 PM
He's as likely to be non-tendered as Patterson. At least with Endy, you don't get caught up in the notion that he should be a better hitter and playiing him more than you have to.


Yeah, but with Chavez, you definitely won't get any hitting. Patterson, well, you might get lucky. He's shown some power. If Choi is cheap, I'd take him over Phillips. If Harris is cheap, I'd sign him to replace Womack.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 08:11 PM
.239, .266, .284, .329, .320, .254. Guess what those numbers are? Patterson's OBP's the first 6 years of his career (though the .239 was 11 games in 2001.) That's a .239 OBP for his career. That's not even close to good. Yes, a change of scenery might help him, and yes, there is a chance he comes here and does good. He plays good defense, but he is so inconsistent and impatient at the plate. I would only make a move on him if we had no other options besides Bubba.

First of all you have a typo - his career OBP is .293, not .239.

That having been said, I question the wisdom of trying to sign Corey Patterson even if Bubba Crosby is our only option. With career numbers of .252/.293/.414 and a $2.8M salary in 2005 forming the basis of his salary expectations, I don't see him as a good value.

He has had six years at the ML level to show his abilities - he had one good year (2003). Other than that year, his numbers have been putrid.

PASS

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 08:14 PM
First of all you have a typo - his career OBP is .293, not .239.

That having been said, I question the wisdom of trying to sign Corey Patterson even if Bubba Crosby is our only option. With career numbers of .252/.293/.414 and a $2.8M salary in 2005 forming the basis of his salary expectations, I don't see him as a good value.

He has had six years at the ML level to show his abilities - he had one good year (2003). Other than that year, his numbers have been putrid.

PASS

Ooops, I apologize with the typo, it will be fixed.

Anyway, do we have to honor his old contract, or do we sign him to whatever we want/he accepts? If he costs us 2.8 then I wouldn't even want him over Bubba

Galapagos
12-18-05, 08:15 PM
Ooops, I apologize with the typo, it will be fixed.

Anyway, do we have to honor his old contract, or do we sign him to whatever we want/he accepts? If he costs us 2.8 then I wouldn't even want him over Bubba

His old contract is irrelevant. He'd be a free agent.

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 08:17 PM
His old contract is irrelevant. He'd be a free agent.

Thats what I thought. I wonder (if non-tendered) how much he would go for?

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 08:17 PM
Ooops, I apologize with the typo, it will be fixed.

Anyway, do we have to honor his old contract, or do we sign him to whatever we want/he accepts? If he costs us 2.8 then I wouldn't even want him over Bubba

I don't know what he ultimately will sign for, but players at his age will generally be starting their negotiations from what they were previously paid. If he is non-tendered, then he has no contract to be honored.

What number do you see as being digestible for Patterson as a FA?

aeromac76
12-18-05, 08:17 PM
Jody Gerut would be a steal if the Yankees got him for nothing. He's a really good player, he just needs to stay healthy.

I think Joe Borowski is also worth a shot. He's really develped since the Yankees had him last.

I am with you on Gerut, I saw him play against the Yankees a few years back when he was with the Indians and he really hammered us for a 4 game series. After that, I always paid attention when we played Cle until he got traded, the guy can play. If he is non-tendered, he could be a steal. If he sucks or gets hurt, no loss.
I'd love to try him out for nothing though..

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 08:18 PM
I am with you on Gerut, I saw him play against the Yankees a few years back when he was with the Indians and he really hammered us for a 4 game series. After that, I always paid attention when we played Cle until he got traded, the guy can play. If he is non-tendered, he could be a steal. If he sucks or gets hurt, no loss.
I'd love to try him out for nothing though..

Same with me, I've been following him since 2003. I'd love to see him as a Yank

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 08:20 PM
His old contract is irrelevant. He'd be a free agent.

His contract is relevant in that his agent will certainly use it as a benchmark to try to start contract negotiations. He won't necessarily get the dollars, but he will use the number as a starting point.

That having been said, if Corey Patterson is non-tendered, I think some team will take a flyer at him for a multi-year contract at $2M per season. Say 2 year/$4M with a player option for a 3rd year at $3M.

Just my .02

Galapagos
12-18-05, 08:20 PM
I don't know what he ultimately will sign for, but players at his age will generally be starting their negotiations from what they were previously paid.

Well, he won't get that. He got $2.8 million in arbitration after a pretty good year. Now, after a horrendous year, he's being non-tendered. He's not going to get $2.8. I'd offer him $1.5 million.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 08:21 PM
Well, he won't get that. He got $2.8 million in arbitration after a pretty good year. Now, after a horrendous year, he's being non-tendered. He's not going to get $2.8. I'd offer him $1.5 million.

IMO, he is not worth $1.5M. I would offer him no more than $1M with incentives based on PA.

Galapagos
12-18-05, 08:34 PM
IMO, he is not worth $1.5M. I would offer him no more than $1M with incentives based on PA.

If it takes 500k to get Bubba Crosby out of CF, I'm not going to sweat it.

BigBats
12-18-05, 08:39 PM
If Patterson were available, I'd scoff him up immediately.

Spiker101
12-18-05, 09:28 PM
.239, .266, .284, .329, .320, .254. Guess what those numbers are? Patterson's OBP's the first 6 years of his career (though the .239 was 11 games in 2001.) That's a .293 OBP for his career. That's not even close to good. Yes, a change of scenery might help him, and yes, there is a chance he comes here and does good. He plays good defense, but he is so inconsistent and impatient at the plate. I would only make a move on him if we had no other options besides Bubba.

This is academic because they are going to tender him, but Patterson is the kind of guy you scarf up in a second if some team gets tired of a player's act and dumps him to save money. He was brought up to the majors at 21 with the can't miss label . At the time he was a top five prospect. They rushed him and apparently he put too much pressure on himself or the coaching didn't click or he's simply uncoachable. You take a chance that a change of scenery will do the trick. He's never going to have a good on-base guy, think Soriano, but if he figures it out, he'll hit 30-40 homers while playing a terrific centerfield. If he doesn't you're out a little bit of money, that's all. I would imagine also he's probably got an option or two left, which is probably what he really needs. Anyway, he certainly has more upside than Jeremy Reed, who's going to cost the Yanks something substantial.

Mark19
12-18-05, 11:43 PM
Hopefully tuesday will see us put a few more guys on our Christmas list. There are a few interesting names who could be available soon.

MTYankee23
12-19-05, 09:24 AM
Can Gerut play Centerfield?

Yankeeah
12-19-05, 11:21 AM
Can Gerut play Centerfield?

He's played 26 games there, which is the least he has played (mostly as RF), but I think he'd be able to do it.

MTYankee23
12-19-05, 11:22 AM
Whatever happened with Jeff DaVanon?

BJG
12-19-05, 11:23 AM
His contract is relevant in that his agent will certainly use it as a benchmark to try to start contract negotiations. He won't necessarily get the dollars, but he will use the number as a starting point.

If his team thought his current contract was a good starting point, he probably would have been tendered a contract.

I Love Wang
12-19-05, 12:44 PM
If his team thought his current contract was a good starting point, he probably would have been tendered a contract.

I should have thought of that. Damn.

mbn007
12-19-05, 12:54 PM
Of all the guys listed above by all the posters, Gary Matthews Jr. makes the most sense, if he is non-tendered. That said, I doubt Texas lets him walk for nothing. But he would be the cheapest, and most reliable defensive OF out there.

And maybe he can hit a bit, although I am not sure he will outhit Bubba if both played a full season.

MTYankee23
12-19-05, 12:58 PM
Of all the guys listed above by all the posters, Gary Matthews Jr. makes the most sense, if he is non-tendered. That said, I doubt Texas lets him walk for nothing. But he would be the cheapest, and most reliable defensive OF out there.

And maybe he can hit a bit, although I am not sure he will outhit Bubba if both played a full season.

If they're both available/non-tendered, I'd like to see a platoon of Jeff DaVanon and Jody Gerut.

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-19-05, 01:20 PM
Of all the guys listed above by all the posters, Gary Matthews Jr. makes the most sense, if he is non-tendered. That said, I doubt Texas lets him walk for nothing. But he would be the cheapest, and most reliable defensive OF out there.

And maybe he can hit a bit, although I am not sure he will outhit Bubba if both played a full season.
Gary Matthews is one of the more injury prone players in the game. His defense is solid but his offense is average to below average, if we can get him for near nothing as well as having a backup for when he does down, it would be a good move...

nhyankeefan
12-20-05, 06:51 AM
It looks like Wade Miller will be non-tendered. I'd like to see the Yanks sign him to a minor league or even a similar contract that the Sox signed him to last year. I know it's a long shot that he will return to his prior form but it's a risk worth taking for small money.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/12/20/miller_not_expected_to_receive_contract/?page=full

BeantownYankee
12-20-05, 07:38 AM
Philly paper thinks Endy Chavez will be non tendered.

"Don't be surprised if the Phillies let Chavez go. The Phillies like Shane Victorino as their fifth outfielder, and Chavez was unremarkable in his time with the Phillies last season."

If he could resort to his 2004 Montreal form he may not be a bad pickup.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13445455.htm

mbn007
12-20-05, 07:50 AM
Philly paper thinks Endy Chavez will be non tendered.

"Don't be surprised if the Phillies let Chavez go. The Phillies like Shane Victorino as their fifth outfielder, and Chavez was unremarkable in his time with the Phillies last season."

If he could resort to his 2004 Montreal form he may not be a bad pickup.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13445455.htm





If this happens, Philly is not tradingMichaels.

NYDCYankee
12-20-05, 08:26 AM
Today is decision day.

Kulish29
12-20-05, 01:47 PM
What's the deadline to tender a contract to a player?

ieddyi
12-20-05, 02:10 PM
What's the deadline to tender a contract to a player?


midnight tonight

Let's stay up all night and have a non tender party lol

nyyanksfan20
12-20-05, 03:08 PM
midnight tonight

Let's stay up all night and have a non tender party lol


I hope Cashman is.

BJG
12-20-05, 03:15 PM
If this happens, Philly is not tradingMichaels.

The reason to move Michaels is to get more at bats for Shane Victorino, so I don't think Chavez matters one way or the other to them.

BJG
12-20-05, 03:18 PM
I hope Cashman is.

Up to the moment that they aren't tendered, it would be tampering to have discussed any of these players with their agents. Just as with any other free agent situation, it would seem unlikely that a player is going to jump at the very first offer or make a decision about the next year of their life in only a matter of hours.

Patience.

DJ27
12-20-05, 03:19 PM
Up to the moment that they aren't tendered, it would be tampering to have discussed any of these players with their agents. Just as with any other free agent situation, it would seem unlikely that a player is going to jump at the very first offer or make a decision about the next year of their life in only a matter of hours.

Patience.

You are right... tomorrow we can start up on these rumors!! ;)

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 03:58 PM
The reason to move Michaels is to get more at bats for Shane Victorino, so I don't think Chavez matters one way or the other to them.

The reason to get Michaels is to bring back pitching, which they lack. They don't lack outfielders, so they'll trade one. Plus, they like Victorino.

Snatch Catch
12-20-05, 04:06 PM
It looks like Wade Miller will be non-tendered. I'd like to see the Yanks sign him to a minor league or even a similar contract that the Sox signed him to last year. I know it's a long shot that he will return to his prior form but it's a risk worth taking for small money.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/12/20/miller_not_expected_to_receive_contract/?page=full

Ugh. Please, no.

DJ27
12-20-05, 04:07 PM
Ugh. Please, no.

Agreed... no need to take on that risk.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 04:14 PM
Ugh. Please, no.
I wouldn't mind it for pure depth reasons. I see so many injury risks with our starting rotation that I don't think we can have too many starters. Saying that, I wouldn't want him on the team unless there were some guys on the DL and we needed him to pitch some innings.

DJ27
12-20-05, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't mind it for pure depth reasons. I see so many injury risks with our starting rotation that I don't think we can have too many starters. Saying that, I wouldn't want him on the team unless there were some guys on the DL and we needed him to pitch some innings.


We have AAA guys to fill those needs. Don't need another injury risk on our staff.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 04:22 PM
We have AAA guys to fill those needs. Don't need another injury risk on our staff.
Well, I would only give him a minor league deal anyways and I doubt he would accept that.

DeSalvo, Henn, and DePaula are the 3 guys that come to mind that can start for us if injuries occur. Am I missing anyone?

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 04:26 PM
If Miller would accept a AAA assignment, I'd sign him.

Taylor, I don't know if you'd include him, but I think Karstens would be a candidate to start as well.

BeantownYankee
12-20-05, 04:44 PM
Agreed... no need to take on that risk.

funny how this was viewed as an great move by theo & co last year:D

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 04:58 PM
If Miller would accept a AAA assignment, I'd sign him.

Taylor, I don't know if you'd include him, but I think Karstens would be a candidate to start as well.
He's a candidate. I don't know how high on the list he'd be though. Will he start this year in Columbus?

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 05:02 PM
He's a candidate. I don't know how high on the list he'd be though. Will he start this year in Columbus?

I have to assume he will. There's no reason to keep him at Trenton.

ieddyi
12-20-05, 05:19 PM
funny how this was viewed as an great move by theo & co last year:D

Along with Renteria, Mantei , Blaine Neal and Clement. Looking back at it, their offseason looks good only in relation to our terrible singings

Spiker101
12-20-05, 06:05 PM
Come on, any team that has Wayne Franklin on its 40-man roster can afford to take a run at Wade Miller. Sign him for peanuts, put him on the 60-day and hope.

Mark19
12-20-05, 06:13 PM
So far, non-tenders for today include:

SP Dewon Brazleton
C David Ross
C Pete LaForest
RP Craig Breslow

Cubs and Marlins announced that they wouldn't be non-tendering anyone

Yankeeah
12-20-05, 06:15 PM
Didn't Brazleton get lost going to Yankee Stadium one time and showed up real late?

TheGameEpisode2
12-20-05, 06:15 PM
Patterson will be tendered a contract, so you can scratch him out. (Unless you trade him for next to nothing after the horrible season he had.)

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1284981&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

ryanthe13th
12-20-05, 06:18 PM
Have we offered Small and Chacon a contract yet?

Mark19
12-20-05, 06:49 PM
SP Ramon Ortiz and P Joe Valentine were just non-tendered.


Joe Borowski was also DFA'd



update:

Wade Miller and Chad Bradford were also DFA'd

updateL

Twins reliever Grant Balfour was non-tendered

flymick24
12-20-05, 08:48 PM
SP Ramon Ortiz and P Joe Valentine were just non-tendered.


Joe Borowski was also DFA'd



update:

Wade Miller and Chad Bradford were also DFA'd

updateL

Twins reliever Grant Balfour was non-tendered

none of those names are eye-catching... if miller is willing to accept a minor league assignment, then maybe the yankees should take a chance, but otherwise, pass

ryanthe13th
12-20-05, 08:51 PM
Borowski looks intriguing. If he comes cheap I don't see the problem adding a solid righty to the pen instead of Proctor or Sturtze.

YankeePride1967
12-20-05, 08:51 PM
SP Ramon Ortiz and P Joe Valentine were just non-tendered.


Joe Borowski was also DFA'd



update:

Wade Miller and Chad Bradford were also DFA'd

updateL

Twins reliever Grant Balfour was non-tendered

Wade Miller. LOL The Wade Miller that Sox fans were salivating over and calling Theo a genius. Hey, only $1.5 million thrown away!

flymick24
12-20-05, 08:52 PM
Borowski looks intriguing. If he comes cheap I don't see the problem adding a solid righty to the pen instead of Proctor or Sturtze.

i don't see how borowski v.2 would be any better than borowski v.1

Tifoso
12-20-05, 08:55 PM
i don't see how borowski v.2 would be any better than borowski v.1

It is the same Borowoski that pitched 2 innings in 1998 (or something like that), then. (Only reason I know is that I spent something like 4 years trying to get his card to finish my 1998 Yanks collection)

ryanthe13th
12-20-05, 09:03 PM
i don't see how borowski v.2 would be any better than borowski v.1

Borowski has pitched a total of 9 games as a Yankee.

BomberBrian
12-20-05, 09:05 PM
do you realize the devil rays just traded brazelton to the padres for sean burroughs and the padres aren't even keeping him?

BJG
12-20-05, 09:17 PM
do you realize the devil rays just traded brazelton to the padres for sean burroughs and the padres aren't even keeping him?

Alderson indicated when the trade went down that a) they would have non-tendered Burroughs and b) if they couldn't work out a deal with Brazelton, they'd non-tender him. Not a surprise.

ieddyi
12-20-05, 09:30 PM
do you realize the devil rays just traded brazelton to the padres for sean burroughs and the padres aren't even keeping him?

They're prolly going to work out a deal with him at a reduced cost

Mark19
12-20-05, 09:53 PM
Dodgers non-tendered Jason Philips, Brian Myrow and Mike Edwards.

PaidYoung
12-20-05, 10:15 PM
sign willie harris and jeff DaVanon ...for short term gaps this year. Willie has some speed and good plate patience...horrible hitter though but great range... he would get everything in CF and could be a good back up 2b

Mark19
12-20-05, 10:23 PM
Dan Kolb was non-tendered

flymick24
12-20-05, 10:28 PM
Dan Kolb was non-tendered

he's horrible

the mets will get him

Mark19
12-20-05, 10:43 PM
Ryan Franklin and Jamal Strong were non-tendered



Strong could be a decent 4th-5th OF if given a chance

Yankeeah
12-20-05, 11:04 PM
Dan Kolb was non-tendered

The Brewers said they were doing this to re-work his contract.

ICEBERG18
12-20-05, 11:29 PM
I want Erubiel Durazo.

Mark19
12-21-05, 01:33 AM
other non-tenders so far have included:

endy chavez
josh fogg
jose acevado
junior spivey
scott seabol
willie harris
eric byrnes
kurt ainsworth

Clemens831
12-21-05, 03:04 AM
other non-tenders so far have included:

endy chavez
josh fogg
jose acevado
junior spivey
scott seabol
willie harris
eric byrnes
kurt ainsworth

Endy can probably be had for a small, small fee. I'd pick him up as a 4th OF. Byrnes will probably ask for more...but would he be ok off the bench?

ryanthe13th
12-21-05, 03:27 AM
Dan Kolb was non-tendered

And we should stay far, far away from him.

TheWarrior21
12-21-05, 04:20 AM
Durazo for 1B/DH, Harris, DaVanon, Chavez for bench, Bradford and W.Miller for minor-league deals. I think all of those moves would help out alot. If Bernie is indeed coming back, then I would take DaVanon over Chavez, because he can play all 3 OF spots. I like him over Crosby, sorry Bubba.

This leads to a bench of Stinnett, Phillips, Harris, DaVanon, and Bernie.

guidry36
12-21-05, 06:57 AM
DaVanon will be looking for a multi-year deal and will cost much more than Crosby. Crosby is an ideal #4 OF and is also solid defensively at all 3 spots. We already have 9 relievers with the addition of Dotel. Dotel may not be ready until mid-season, but we need to trade at least 1 reliever before we look at any others. Harris would be a good addition...as would Miguel Cairo. I hope we stand pat at 1B/DH.....at least giving Philips a shot. 1B/DH would be easy to fill if Phillips doesn't work out......and if Bernie comes back, there would be no need for another DH. Who knows how many games Giambi will be able to play at 1B..... maybe 100 (that is probably optimistic). DH could be filled by a combination of Giambi, Bernie, Sheffield.....and anyone else needing a 1/2 day off.

Allan
12-21-05, 07:45 AM
other non-tenders so far have included:

endy chavez
josh fogg
jose acevado
junior spivey
scott seabol
willie harris
eric byrnes
kurt ainsworth
Junior Spivey in a utility IF role, perhaps?

Kulish29
12-21-05, 10:11 AM
Willie Harris can play 2B and the OF.

BJG
12-21-05, 10:32 AM
Durazo for 1B/DH, Harris, DaVanon, Chavez for bench, Bradford and W.Miller for minor-league deals. I think all of those moves would help out alot. If Bernie is indeed coming back, then I would take DaVanon over Chavez, because he can play all 3 OF spots. I like him over Crosby, sorry Bubba.

This leads to a bench of Stinnett, Phillips, Harris, DaVanon, and Bernie.

1. the Yankees already have plenty of guys who can and should DH. They don't need a guy like Durazo who can't even reasonably let Giambi take a day off.

2. Harris thinks he's a starter.

3. Davanon will get a starting role.

4. Bradford will get a major league contract.

BJG
12-21-05, 10:32 AM
Junior Spivey in a utility IF role, perhaps?

Spivey will be a starting 2B for someone.

NelsonMuntz
12-21-05, 10:43 AM
Wade Miller. LOL The Wade Miller that Sox fans were salivating over and calling Theo a genius. Hey, only $1.5 million thrown away!
Yeah that move definitely deserves a big Ha - ha from Nelson Muntz.

Yogi
12-21-05, 10:47 AM
Complete non-tender list:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2267104

NEW YORK -- The 50 players who became free agents when their teams failed to offer 2006 contracts Tuesday:< ^AMERICAN LEAGUE=

BALTIMORE (3) -- Kurt Ainsworth, rhp; Eric Byrnes, of; Eddy Rodriguez, rhp.

BOSTON (2) -- Chad Bradford, rhp; Wade Miller, rhp.

CHICAGO (4) -- Jon Adkins, rhp; Felix Diaz, rhp; Willie Harris, inf; Timo Perez, of.

CLEVELAND (1) -- Jose Diaz, rhp.

KANSAS CITY (2) -- Shawn Camp, rhp; Ken Harvey, inf.

MINNESOTA (1) -- Grant Balfour, rhp.

NEW YORK (1) -- Wayne Franklin, lhp.

OAKLAND (1) -- Hiram Bocachica, of.

SEATTLE (3) -- Cha-Seung Baek, rhp; Ryan Franklin, rhp; Jamal Strong, of.

TAMPA BAY (4) -- Joe Borowski, rhp; Lance Carter, rhp; Trever Miller, lhp; Michael Rose, c.

TEXAS (1) -- Nicholas Regilio, rhp.

------= ^NATIONAL LEAGUE=

ATLANTA (2) -- Jim Brower, rhp; Wes Obermueller, rhp.

CINCINNATI (2) -- Ramon Ortiz, rhp; Joe Valentine, rhp.

COLORADO (2) -- Jose Acevedo, rhp; Ryan Spilborghs, of.

FLORIDA (1) -- Joe Dillon, inf.

LOS ANGELES (3) -- Michael Edwards, of; Brian Myrow, inf; Jason Phillips, c.

MILWAUKEE (2) -- Jeff Bennett, rhp; Dan Kolb, rhp.

NEW YORK (2) -- Wayne Lydon, of; Tyler Yates, rhp.

PHILADELPHIA (1) -- Endy Chavez, of.

PITTSBURGH (1) -- Josh Fogg, rhp.

ST. LOUIS (4) -- Bo Hart, inf; Mike Lincoln, rhp; Mike Mahoney, c; Scott Seabol, inf.

SAN DIEGO (3) -- Dewon Brazelton, rhp; Craig Breslow, lhp; Miguel Olivo, c.

WASHINGTON (4) -- Alex Escobar, of; Junior Spivey, 2b; Rick Short, inf; T.J. Tucker, rhp.. Tucker

tmanf
12-21-05, 10:56 AM
The players of interest to me are Chad Bradford, Eric Byrnes, Wade Miller, Willie Harris, Joe Borowski, and Rick Short (don't ask).

yanksphan
12-21-05, 10:57 AM
I'm still convinced Miguel Olivo will be an excellent catcher some day. He did well when he came to San Diego last season - even in Petco park.

Probably better than Stinnett...

Yankyfan
12-21-05, 10:59 AM
I saw Yates pitch a few years ago and if he's healthy he has nasty,nasty stuff.I would really look to sign him to a minor deal with a ST invite.

BJG
12-21-05, 11:15 AM
At this point, I don't think it's terribly realistic to expect free agent pitchers to choose the Yankees.

You can also cross out the position players who are likely to get regular playing time like Spivey and Olivo and probably Byrnes (though Byrnes is not that great a fielder and basically can only hit lefties).

I'm interested in Harris, but I also understand that he bitched in Chicago about not playing more, and he would play very little on this team. I don't think you can combine him with Endy Chavez or Jamal Strong, though, and if you think any of those guys are better 5th outfielders than Bubba, I'd rather go with a righthanded middle infielder.

I'd see if Ryan Spilborghs wants to play in Columbus.

Kluivert4Ever
12-21-05, 12:54 PM
Can Byrnes play RF?
If so, stick him there and move Sheff to DH, good idea?

Snatch Catch
12-21-05, 12:57 PM
Can Byrnes play RF?
If so, stick him there and move Sheff to DH, good idea?


Thanks. That post just made me go blind.

aeromac76
12-21-05, 01:17 PM
I saw Yates pitch a few years ago and if he's healthy he has nasty,nasty stuff.I would really look to sign him to a minor deal with a ST invite.

I agree, I think he was at one time predicted to be the Mets closer of the future and had great stuff before injuries, could be worth a looksie..

DJ27
12-21-05, 01:19 PM
I saw Yates pitch a few years ago and if he's healthy he has nasty,nasty stuff.I would really look to sign him to a minor deal with a ST invite.

But... is his stuff "electric"?? ;) ;)

BJG
12-21-05, 01:23 PM
Can Byrnes play RF?
If so, stick him there and move Sheff to DH, good idea?

Bad defender. Can't hit righties.

DiMaggio5CF
12-21-05, 02:09 PM
Well so much for there being lots of help from the non-tenders.

Tough luck for Danny Kolb. Traded from the Brewers to the Braves, then back to the Brewers, and now non-tendered.

And it looks like San Diego really made the best of that Burroughs trade :lol:

BJG
12-21-05, 02:23 PM
Well so much for there being lots of help from the non-tenders.

Tough luck for Danny Kolb. Traded from the Brewers to the Braves, then back to the Brewers, and now non-tendered.

And it looks like San Diego really made the best of that Burroughs trade :lol:

Both SD and Milwaukee made these moves with this outcome in mind.

Milwaukee never intended to tender a contract to Kolb and took the time merely to try to work out a cheaper deal with him. He may still sign with them.

The same could be said for SD. The Padres were going to non-tender Burroughs. Rather than get nothing for that, they took a chance on seeing if they could work out a deal with Brazelton on the cheap.

Spiker101
12-21-05, 02:26 PM
Well so much for there being lots of help from the non-tenders.

Tough luck for Danny Kolb. Traded from the Brewers to the Braves, then back to the Brewers, and now non-tendered.

And it looks like San Diego really made the best of that Burroughs trade :lol:

Kolb is a really intriguing guy. He'll be 31 on Opening Day and coming off an horrendous season as the Braves closer. But the two prior years he was among the better closers in the game. A righty, an extreme ground ball pitcher. I bet Cash is considering him, if the money is right. Sign him, you can trade Sturtze or Villone or both and pick up a couple of decent prospects.

Jim Roche
12-21-05, 03:17 PM
Willie Harris...
From hearing stories about him from a former player in the Orioles organization and seeing him play throughout his career (Minors and Majors), this guy has the energy and talent to help the Yanks. If Cairo doesn't want to come back........Get Willie..

DJ27
12-21-05, 03:20 PM
Willie Harris...
From hearing stories about him from a former player in the Orioles organization and seeing him play throughout his career (Minors and Majors), this guy has the energy and talent to help the Yanks. If Cairo doesn't want to come back........Get Willie..

But, like it has been said before, he complained about PT in Chicago. We need someone willing to play the utility role and be a good team guy(like Miggy).

Kluivert4Ever
12-21-05, 03:22 PM
Thanks. That post just made me go blind.


I am sorry, I have not seen enough of Byrnes that is why I asked, it just seemed as if he plays the game hard. Perhaps not starter material though, but could he fill a need on the bench?

Posada_20
12-21-05, 03:24 PM
Balfour was a bit of a surprise. I remember him pitching against Yanks in 2004 Divisional series. He throws very hard and had good control. Was he injured?

38Special
12-21-05, 03:28 PM
tommy john

BJG
12-21-05, 03:30 PM
Balfour was a bit of a surprise. I remember him pitching against Yanks in 2004 Divisional series. He throws very hard and had good control. Was he injured?

Rotator cuff surgery. Likely out for all of 2006.

38Special
12-21-05, 03:32 PM
Oh I thought it was tommy john. Shoulder surgery is much worse

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 05:03 PM
ERIC BYRNES as our 4th outfielder...solid defender...a hustler...a guy that will do anything for his team to win:cheer:

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 05:09 PM
I also like the idea of signing RHP Dewon Brazelton to a Minor League Deal and let him Start at Columbus, this kid is still very very young and has loads of potentials, any thoughts ??

NYDCYankee
12-21-05, 05:24 PM
I kind of like Trever Miller, but we allready have two lefties.

Crosby18
12-21-05, 05:26 PM
I'm pro Dan Kolb as a reliever who would get a shot until Dotel is healthy.

NYDCYankee
12-21-05, 05:28 PM
I'm pro Dan Kolb as a reliever who would get a shot until Dotel is healthy.

It is something we should think about. Especially if Sturtze gets traded.

Think about it though. If we get Kolb we will have 4 current or former closers on the roster.

ZYanksRule
12-21-05, 05:29 PM
I'd love to go after Borowski, I think he could be a nice member of the pen,

EDIT:

Go after Kolb, hope he bounces back....

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 05:45 PM
It is something we should think about. Especially if Sturtze gets traded.

Think about it though. If we get Kolb we will have 4 current or former closers on the roster.


My second favorite team is Atlanta because where i live, All the Atlanta games are shown, I saw Kolb pitch a bunch and if Kolb couldnt handle the pressure in ATL then he sure as heck couldnt handle the pressure of pitching in yankee stadium in the 7th inning with the game on the line ;)

TheGameEpisode2
12-21-05, 07:07 PM
Chavez interests me as a RF and Sheff as DH.

Chavez's only full year of work Chavez hit .277, .312 OBP, .371 OBP, and a .689. Not that impressive to tell you the truth, but in 502 AB he only struck out 40 times. He stole 32 bases, and only got caught 7 times. Plays great defense and has a very strong arm.

Offensively he wouldn't be anything special, but defensively he might make people confident with our outfield defense.

I'd take Jason Michaels over him though. (Sturtze/Henn I guess is still the deal? Who knows anymore.)

NewEraYanks2527
12-21-05, 07:20 PM
I dont know if this has been mentioned buy Eric Byrnes has been non-tendered. I would not really have a problem with him in right on certain days and Sheff DHing, even if Byrnes was an offensive catastrophe last year I think his defense could really be great along side Damon in the outfield.

flymick24
12-21-05, 07:57 PM
I dont know if this has been mentioned buy Eric Byrnes has been non-tendered. I would not really have a problem with him in right on certain days and Sheff DHing, even if Byrnes was an offensive catastrophe last year I think his defense could really be great along side Damon in the outfield.

he can't hit righties, so unless you're gonna platoon him, it doesn't make sense to sign him.

South Facing Epitaph
12-21-05, 08:00 PM
I dont know if this has been mentioned buy Eric Byrnes has been non-tendered. I would not really have a problem with him in right on certain days and Sheff DHing, even if Byrnes was an offensive catastrophe last year I think his defense could really be great along side Damon in the outfield.

I'd really like to have an intense player like Byrnes, there is 4th outfielder role for him on the Yankees, though, I'm not sure if another team will offer a starting spot.

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 08:02 PM
I dont know if this has been mentioned buy Eric Byrnes has been non-tendered. I would not really have a problem with him in right on certain days and Sheff DHing, even if Byrnes was an offensive catastrophe last year I think his defense could really be great along side Damon in the outfield.


I just mentioned it 2 posts before you :D


but yeah i think Byrnes would be a really nice fit


so would chavez

I just wish we didnt resign Bernie:enraged:

Then we could've signed byrnes and chavez and then sign Eduardo Perez to be our DH:ga-ga:

signing Bernie wasnt a good idea :mad:

now we were going to have to choose between Byrnes or Chavez unless we could sign one of them to a minor league deal (not likely):-shrug-:

NewEraYanks2527
12-21-05, 09:07 PM
signing Bernie wasnt a good idea :mad:


No it was not a good idea and I think you win the award for most accurate diversity amoung smilies within one post ;)

bradu3303
12-21-05, 10:03 PM
It's funny how some of these posters talk as if they are apart of the Yankee organization. I mean all over these forums people are talking about what the Yankees should do, shouldn't do, who to sign and who not to sign. Johnny Damon signs so it must be Steinbrenner's fault right? And saying who to trade for when you have no idea what negotiations, if any, have taken place. We do not know what the Phillies want for Michaels, or if the Yankees have any interest, etc. Many posters constantly nag on Cashman, Torre, or Steinbrenner because THEIR offseason plans have not been carried out. Why don't some of you just chill out. The Yankees have a fairly good idea of how to play baseball...

AMYanks
12-21-05, 10:31 PM
It's funny how some of these posters talk as if they are apart of the Yankee organization. I mean all over these forums people are talking about what the Yankees should do, shouldn't do, who to sign and who not to sign. Johnny Damon signs so it must be Steinbrenner's fault right? And saying who to trade for when you have no idea what negotiations, if any, have taken place. We do not know what the Phillies want for Michaels, or if the Yankees have any interest, etc. Many posters constantly nag on Cashman, Torre, or Steinbrenner because THEIR offseason plans have not been carried out. Why don't some of you just chill out. The Yankees have a fairly good idea of how to play baseball...

So the purpose of a message board should just be to post news and blow smoke up the Yankees' collective butts whatever move it is they make? Because, after all, they are the professionals. No reason for anyone to give their opinion on what they would like to see done to help improve the team.

YankeePride1967
12-21-05, 10:36 PM
So the purpose of a message board should just be to post news and blow smoke up the Yankees' collective butts whatever move it is they make? Because, after all, they are the professionals. No reason for anyone to give their opinion on what they would like to see done to help improve the team.

Nope, we are here to blindl cheer and meekly nod when a move is made.

Yankees1962
12-21-05, 10:52 PM
So the purpose of a message board should just be to post news and blow smoke up the Yankees' collective butts whatever move it is they make? Because, after all, they are the professionals. No reason for anyone to give their opinion on what they would like to see done to help improve the team.
If you think Cashman or any Yankee official wastes their time reading the crap posted on this board then you're sadly mistaken.

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 10:59 PM
Change of Subject...Please



Bradu3303...Grow up;)

AMYanks
12-21-05, 11:14 PM
If you think Cashman or any Yankee official wastes their time reading the crap posted on this board then you're sadly mistaken.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. :lol:

The FUTURE
12-21-05, 11:39 PM
To get this thread started again. Here are some new players that should be discussed:

OF Eric Byrnes...I think this would be the perfect guy to be our 4th outfielder,Young,Good Defense,Can play every OF position,A Hustler,A guy that will do anything for his team to win

CF Endy Chavez...I think this would also be a perfect fit to be our Backup CF Young,FAST,Can play every OF position,good defense as far as I know but the downside is now that we re-signed Bernie , I dont think we would have enough room unless we could get one of them to play in AAA.

RHP Josh Fogg...Solid Career Numbers, I dont think it we should sign him, unless we wanted to trade Pavano and we could sign him for insurance in case wright didnt work out

1B Ken Harvey...Solid Career Numbers, He was hurt last year, Pretty Young,Good Hitter from the Right Side of the Plate, dont really know about his defense

RHP Wade Miller..Solid Career Numbers, has alot of potential if he can get over his injury problems...Same as Fogg

RHP Ramon Ortiz..Ok Career Numbers, a descent guy for a 5th starter...Same as Miller and Fogg

2B Junior Spivey...Good Career Numbers, hes really struggled the last 2 season though



THOUGHTS ????

AMYanks
12-22-05, 12:13 AM
To get this thread started again. Here are some new players that should be discussed:

OF Eric Byrnes...I think this would be the perfect guy to be our 4th outfielder,Young,Good Defense,Can play every OF position,A Hustler,A guy that will do anything for his team to win

CF Endy Chavez...I think this would also be a perfect fit to be our Backup CF Young,FAST,Can play every OF position,good defense as far as I know but the downside is now that we re-signed Bernie , I dont think we would have enough room unless we could get one of them to play in AAA.

RHP Josh Fogg...Solid Career Numbers, I dont think it we should sign him, unless we wanted to trade Pavano and we could sign him for insurance in case wright didnt work out

1B Ken Harvey...Solid Career Numbers, He was hurt last year, Pretty Young,Good Hitter from the Right Side of the Plate, dont really know about his defense

RHP Wade Miller..Solid Career Numbers, has alot of potential if he can get over his injury problems...Same as Fogg

RHP Ramon Ortiz..Ok Career Numbers, a descent guy for a 5th starter...Same as Miller and Fogg

2B Junior Spivey...Good Career Numbers, hes really struggled the last 2 season though



THOUGHTS ????

What is your definition of "solid", and "good" career numbers? Harvey had one year where he was "average", other than that he has been pretty bad. Josh Fogg has been way below average in Pittsburgh for a few years now. Spivey had one good year in 2002, has been below average other than that. Ortiz is slightly below average. Chavez is only a slight improvement from Crosby.

Byrnes wouldn't be a bad signing, especially if the price for Michaels is steep. Miller would be a good investment to a minor league contract.

guidry36
12-22-05, 12:36 AM
DePaula is out of minor league options....a starter may be needed at Columbus. If Miller, Ortiz, or Fogg would sign a minor league deal, it would be good to have someone with experience. Miller would be an option only if Pavano is traded, but wil probably have several teams interested in him. Ortiz might be willing to sign a minor league deal with a guarantee to release him by July 1st if he wasn't on the major league team.....then again, a team like the Rockies might take a chance on him....giving him a shot to make the team out of spring training. Fogg is probably the best bet to settle for AAA assignment. Ken Harvey, who is horrible defensively, is injured and out until mid-season. He would be worth a gamble in AAA for half a season, though he would likely only pinch hit with Eric Duncan and Mitch Jones for 1B and DH. Though unlikely, Harvey would be an option for September call up.........depending on how many 40 man roster spots were open in case a player or 2 is on the DL at that point. The AAA outfield is pretty much set. Crosby will be fine as #4 OF. Byrnes will have other opportunities with more playing time.

TheScooter
12-22-05, 01:49 AM
I also like the idea of signing RHP Dewon Brazelton to a Minor League Deal and let him Start at Columbus, this kid is still very very young and has loads of potentials, any thoughts ??


Brazelton, acquired from the Devil Rays for third baseman Sean Burroughs, could compete for a spot in either the rotation or ‘pen. The Padres declined to offer him a contract Tuesday, but planned to sign him as a free agent

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5188362

Spiker101
12-22-05, 02:37 AM
My second favorite team is Atlanta because where i live, All the Atlanta games are shown, I saw Kolb pitch a bunch and if Kolb couldnt handle the pressure in ATL then he sure as heck couldnt handle the pressure of pitching in yankee stadium in the 7th inning with the game on the line ;)

You think there's significantly more pressure closing for Atlanta, than closing for the Brewers. I don't. And there are very few players at the MLB who can't handle pressure per se. You don't get to the majors without being able to handle pressure,
Kolb was awful last year; terrific the two previous years. The question is who is the real Dan Kolb. If the price were right, I'd pay to find out.

bradu3303
12-22-05, 10:36 AM
Nope, we are here to blindl cheer and meekly nod when a
is made.

Oh what a great post. Only you failed to understand what my post stated. When people cry out over Johnny Damon signing for four years and 52 million dollars and calling it a Steinbrenner Move, that's what I don't understand. None of us knows what Cash or George thinks or says about baseball. We have NO IDEA what is going on out there in the free agent and trade markets. So to simply blame or call out Torre, Cash, or George is foolish.

If you have a problem with the Damon signing, talk about that. Don't try to act as those you know what the Yankees' front office thinks.

Also, the people that constantly suggest that "such and such post belongs in this forum" need to get a new hobby. Sometimes I think these people are more concerned with "locking" up a post or moving it to another forum, than the actual post itself. Get another hobby, life, friends or whatever you need.

yanksphan
12-22-05, 10:50 AM
Oh what a great post. Only you failed to understand what my post stated. When people cry out over Johnny Damon signing for four years and 52 million dollars and calling it a Steinbrenner Move, that's what I don't understand. None of us knows what Cash or George thinks or says about baseball. We have NO IDEA what is going on out there in the free agent and trade markets. So to simply blame or call out Torre, Cash, or George is foolish.

If you have a problem with the Damon signing, talk about that. Don't try to act as those you know what the Yankees' front office thinks.

Also, the people that constantly suggest that "such and such post belongs in this forum" need to get a new hobby. Sometimes I think these people are more concerned with "locking" up a post or moving it to another forum, than the actual post itself. Get another hobby, life, friends or whatever you need.

I'm sorry you don't have the ability to collect information from different sources and come up with a fairly accurate summation of what's going on "behind the scenes".

It's quite easy actually, and has proven fairly accurate - perhaps if you stop condemning folks for doing it, and try investigating some of the sources provided - you'd learn something.

Or you can carry on with whatever it is you're trying to prove.

The FUTURE
12-22-05, 10:56 AM
What is your definition of "solid", and "good" career numbers? Harvey had one year where he was "average", other than that he has been pretty bad. Josh Fogg has been way below average in Pittsburgh for a few years now. Spivey had one good year in 2002, has been below average other than that. Ortiz is slightly below average. Chavez is only a slight improvement from Crosby.

Byrnes wouldn't be a bad signing, especially if the price for Michaels is steep. Miller would be a good investment to a minor league contract.


When I said solid, I meant descent numbers that would be acceptable for the bench, Im not saying we should sign them, I just picked some guys who needed to be discussed, The only one's I think that would be good enough to sign is Byrnes, Chavez, Miller, or Fogg.

The FUTURE
12-22-05, 10:58 AM
Bradu3303



LEAVE:D

yankeebot
12-22-05, 11:00 AM
Oh what a great post. Only you failed to understand what my post stated. When people cry out over Johnny Damon signing for four years and 52 million dollars and calling it a Steinbrenner Move, that's what I don't understand. None of us knows what Cash or George thinks or says about baseball. We have NO IDEA what is going on out there in the free agent and trade markets. So to simply blame or call out Torre, Cash, or George is foolish.

If you have a problem with the Damon signing, talk about that. Don't try to act as those you know what the Yankees' front office thinks.

Also, the people that constantly suggest that "such and such post belongs in this forum" need to get a new hobby. Sometimes I think these people are more concerned with "locking" up a post or moving it to another forum, than the actual post itself. Get another hobby, life, friends or whatever you need.You might want to consider taking your own advice and chill out. I don't know how long you lurked here before you started posting but this forum has over 12,000 members. I think you are going to see more than a few opinions and you just need to learn to go with the flow. And if a particular poster is really getting under your skin, use the ignore feature. It is your friend. :)

bradu3303
12-22-05, 11:18 AM
You might want to consider taking your own advice and chill out. I don't know how long you lurked here before you started posting but this forum has over 12,000 members. I think you are going to see more than a few opinions and you just need to learn to go with the flow. And if a particular poster is really getting under your skin, use the ignore feature. It is your friend. :)

Thanks I'm quite chill. I'm not angry nor do I hate anyone on here, but about 99.9% of you do not know what is going on in the front office. What are these "sources" that some of you have? The various newspapers across the country? The columnists in New York? Ooooh wait, it's your close friend who has to remain nameless right? ok ok i gotcha

Blaze
12-22-05, 11:37 AM
Does anyone know if Willie Harris was non-tendered?
Check him out
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6798

I think he could fill 2 roles for us.

YankClipper5
12-22-05, 12:04 PM
Hey I haven't read through the entire thread but what about trying to sign Endy Chavez or Eric Byrnes for a backup OF role. I am thinking with a well qualified backup we wouldn't need Bubba. Byrnes seems pretty good because he can RF and let Sheff DH more often. Any thoughts?

Mr. Mxylsplk
12-22-05, 12:12 PM
Does anyone know if Willie Harris was non-tendered?
Check him out
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6798

I think he could fill 2 roles for us.
He was non-tendered, and his defensive versatility is useful, but his hitting is so bad I'd be a bit suprised if we were interested.

Blaze
12-22-05, 12:16 PM
He was non-tendered, and his defensive versatility is useful, but his hitting is so bad I'd be a bit suprised if we were interested.
Well honestly we don't really need another bat outside of DH. I think I'd rather have Willie than Cairo. Willie gives us somebody that can play both the infield and the outfield plus can steal bags for us. Willies 27 and eventhough his hitting is light he's left handed and has had a few good streaks against right handed hitters.

Mr. Mxylsplk
12-22-05, 12:25 PM
Well honestly we don't really need another bat outside of DH. I think I'd rather have Willie than Cairo. Willie gives us somebody that can play both the infield and the outfield plus can steal bags for us. Willies 27 and eventhough his hitting is light he's left handed and has had a few good streaks against right handed hitters.
Sure, it's great to able to play both the infield and outfield, but even reserves have to bat now and then, and Harris is really bad, even against righties most of the time. If Torre managed the team differently, his speed might have a lot of value, but for the yankees it probably doesn't.

Irabu's Son
12-22-05, 12:32 PM
Byrnes.

Yanksince66
12-22-05, 12:47 PM
Count me with Spiker101. I'd definitely pay a reasonable amount to find out what I could about Danny Kolb. It would be stockpiling another pitcher, but I'd have no problem with that.

Other non-tenders don't interest me a whole lot.

StatenIslandYankee
12-22-05, 12:49 PM
Kolb interests me a lot ... there has to be a reason why he did so poorly with Atlanta. Maybe just a bad season? His numbers before last season were impressive. I'd take a flyer on him.

flymick24
12-22-05, 01:10 PM
if kolb couldn't handle atlanta, he will absolutely die in NY

38Special
12-22-05, 01:21 PM
Kolb is absolutely horrible. He had one really lucky season and blew up over and over and over last year. Take your fears about Farnsworth's head and combine it with crappy stuff. We have enough relievers

yanksphan
12-22-05, 01:31 PM
Thanks I'm quite chill. I'm not angry nor do I hate anyone on here, but about 99.9% of you do not know what is going on in the front office. What are these "sources" that some of you have? The various newspapers across the country? The columnists in New York? Ooooh wait, it's your close friend who has to remain nameless right? ok ok i gotcha

Your assumptions are comical.

Yanksince66
12-22-05, 01:45 PM
I don't know what it is about relievers that they seem to almost alternate good and bad years (unless you're named Mo). Kolb would certainly not be under any pressure if he made the Yanks this year, other than to get through the sixth or seventh inning.

To me he's clearly worth a shot in spring training. If he craps out, what's the harm? If he doesn't, what's the cost?

Spiker101
12-22-05, 01:50 PM
Kolb is absolutely horrible. He had one really lucky season and blew up over and over and over last year. Take your fears about Farnsworth's head and combine it with crappy stuff. We have enough relievers

This is just blatant misinformation. In 2003, he posted a 1.96 ERA, struck out 39 hitters in 41.1 innings while allowing opposition hitters to post a .620 OPS against. His GB/FB ratio was a stunning 3.33, if not the best in baseball among the best. (I'm too lazy to look it up.) OKay, that was his one "lucky" season.
Except in 2004, he posted a 2.98 ERA with an even better .587 OPS against, and an even better GB/FB of 3.49. Lucky again?
Yeah, he was lucky, lucky God gave him a mid90s sinking fastball with the mass of a lead shotput.
As for having enough relievers, apparently the lessons of the 2005 season have been lost to some. You can NEVER have enough relief pitching, especially if what you have now includes such iffy propositions as Ron Villone, Scott Proctor, Aaron Small, and to my mind at least Tanyon Sturtze

Snatch Catch
12-22-05, 01:53 PM
This is just blatant misinformation. In 2003, he posted a 1.96 ERA, struck out 39 hitters in 41.1 innings while allowing opposition hitters to post a .620 OPS against. His GB/FB ratio was a stunning 3.33, if not the best in baseball among the best. (I'm too lazy to look it up.) OKay, that was his one "lucky" season.
Except in 2004, he posted a 2.98 ERA with an even better .587 OPS against, and an even better GB/FB of 3.49. Lucky again?
Yeah, he was lucky, lucky God gave him a mid90s sinking fastball with the mass of a lead shotput.
As for having enough relievers, apparently the lessons of the 2005 season have been lost to some. You can NEVER have enough relief pitching, especially if what you have now includes such iffy propositions as Ron Villone, Scott Proctor, Aaron Small, and to my mind at least Tanyon Sturtze

Villone doesn't belong in the same sentence as the other three.

Spiker101
12-22-05, 02:13 PM
Villone doesn't belong in the same sentence as the other three.

Respectfully, I disagree. Villone scares the living bejesus out of me.

bradu3303
12-23-05, 12:27 PM
Your assumptions are comical.

haha wow ok. what is quite comical and foolish is to berate the Yankees for moves they do or do not make. Claiming to be all-knowing of having inside sources is also quite the amusement. Gee golly Yankees, why don't you listen to these GREAT fans we have here at nyyfans.com!! They know which prospects to keep, which guys to sign, and which guys are over-the-hill!

Irabu's Son
12-23-05, 12:28 PM
haha wow ok. what is quite comical and foolish is to berate the Yankees for moves they do or do not make. Claiming to be all-knowing of having inside sources is also quite the amusement. Gee golly Yankees, why don't you listen to these GREAT fans we have here at nyyfans.com!! They know which prospects to keep, which guys to sign, and which guys are over-the-hill!

You finally got something right!

bradu3303
12-23-05, 04:14 PM
You finally got something right!


oh lol irabu is quite the jokester. did you chuckle a lil bit when you posted that?

Rocketman
12-25-05, 04:58 AM
Merry Christmas, everyone. I just read an article on ESPN insider by ex-Met GM Steve Phillips that was very interesting. Although it's true that this guy is an ego-maniac without good reason to be confident, his article does list the following people as non-tendered free agents:


American League
Baltimore (3): Kurt Ainsworth, rhp; Eric Byrnes, of; Eddy Rodriguez, rhp.

Boston (2): Chad Bradford, rhp; Wade Miller, rhp.

Chicago (4): Jon Adkins, rhp; Felix Diaz, rhp; Willie Harris, inf; Timo Perez, of.

Cleveland (1): Jose Diaz, rhp.

Kansas City (2): Shawn Camp, rhp; Ken Harvey, inf.

Minnesota (1): Grant Balfour, rhp.

New York (1): Wayne Franklin, lhp.

Oakland (1): Hiram Bocachica, of.

Seattle (3): Cha-Seung Baek, rhp; Ryan Franklin, rhp; Jamal Strong, of.

Tampa Bay (4): Joe Borowski, rhp; Lance Carter, rhp; Trever Miller, lhp; Michael Rose, c.

Texas (1): Nicholas Regilio, rhp.

National League
Atlanta (2): Jim Brower, rhp; Wes Obermueller, rhp.

Cincinnati (2): Ramon Ortiz, rhp; Joe Valentine, rhp.

Colorado (2): Jose Acevedo, rhp; Ryan Spilborghs, of.

Florida (1): Joe Dillon, inf.

Los Angeles (3): Michael Edwards, of; Brian Myrow, inf; Jason Phillips, c.

Milwaukee (2): Jeff Bennett, rhp; Dan Kolb, rhp.

New York (2): Wayne Lydon, of; Tyler Yates, rhp.

Philadelphia (1): Endy Chavez, of.

Pittsburgh (1): Josh Fogg, rhp.

St. Louis (4): Bo Hart, inf; Mike Lincoln, rhp; Mike Mahoney, c; Scott Seabol, inf.

San Diego (3): Dewon Brazelton, rhp; Craig Breslow, lhp; Miguel Olivo, c.

Washington (4): Alex Escobar, of; Junior Spivey, 2b; Rick Short, inf; T.J. Tucker, rhp.

Of these players, there are several of GREAT interest to me as a Yankee fan. I can see the Yankees picking up Wade Miller, Chad Bradford, Josh Fogg, Joe Borowski, Junior Spivey, or Eric Byrnes as possible role players - or better. It's hard to believe once-phenom Alex Escobar wasn't offered a contract, but there you have it.

My main priorities would be getting Wade Miller, Eric Byrnes, and Joe Borowski from this "bottom-barrel."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2267717

bakntime
12-25-05, 05:36 AM
My main priorities would be getting Wade Miller, Eric Byrnes, and Joe Borowski from this "bottom-barrel."
Miller had shoulder surgery at the end of September. I wouldn't bank on him coming back in 2006.

njdhockey
12-25-05, 09:52 AM
I always like Byrnes, would be nice to have him as a 4th OF who would get a decent number of starts to allow Sheff to DH. Too bad we signed Bernie because I would have prefferred Byrnes in RF and Sheff as the full DH. On days we would need another DH we could use Sheff in RF and the other guy at DH. I also wouldn't mind signing another bullpen guy just for depth.

bobbymagee
12-25-05, 10:13 AM
Joe Borowski, rhp; Lance Carter, rhp; Trever Miller

These guys would be good additions to our bullpen. Maybe not Miller, but Carter is outstanding. The Bosox will pick him up.

longtimeyankeefan
12-25-05, 10:14 AM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91887

Yankyfan
12-25-05, 11:29 AM
Spivey signed with the Cards along with Encarcion.

The FUTURE
12-25-05, 11:51 AM
Joe Borowski, rhp; Lance Carter, rhp; Trever Miller

These guys would be good additions to our bullpen. Maybe not Miller, but Carter is outstanding. The Bosox will pick him up.

Carter resigned with the D-rays
Borowski will find a team that will give him more than just mop up innings
We dont need Miller

I think we should sign Byrnes to be our 4th outfielder. Then just sign young pitchers like RHP's Dewon Brazelton (SD), Felix Diaz(CWS) and LHP Carlos Herandez (HOU) and maybe a couple positions players like 3B/OF Mike Edwards (LAD) and OF Kenny Kelly (NATS) to add to our minor league depth.

Yankyfan
12-25-05, 02:57 PM
Miller if he would sign an incentive type contract would be interesting as insurance.

mhmajp
12-25-05, 03:11 PM
I'd like to see the NYY pick up Chavez and Kolb. I'm pro Byrnes on many levels, but if he's really as bad offensively as some say, he'll end up not getting used as much, which would waste the spot.

IncredibleByNature
12-25-05, 03:47 PM
Wade Miller? :barf:

Byrnes always gives it his all, but eh.

Yankeeah
12-25-05, 04:31 PM
Mets signed Endy and Kolb is most likely getting his contract re-worked and staying with Milwaukee.

Spiker101
12-25-05, 04:57 PM
Mets signed Endy and Kolb is most likely getting his contract re-worked and staying with Milwaukee.

I'm not sure, but I think the Yanks might be able to outbid Milwaukee, if they put their minds to it. I think they should at least consider it.

nhyankeefan
12-25-05, 05:20 PM
Miller had shoulder surgery at the end of September. I wouldn't bank on him coming back in 2006.

Supposedly Miller will start throwing in February so I assume he would be able to pitch by May if not earlier. I think Miller would be a good insurance policy if we could sign him to a minor league or incentive filled major league contract.

TheScooter
12-25-05, 05:41 PM
Spivey signed with the Cards along with Encarcion.

St.Louis gave Encarnacion 3 years/$15 million :eek:

TheScooter
12-25-05, 05:43 PM
Supposedly Miller will start throwing in February so I assume he would be able to pitch by May if not earlier. I think Miller would be a good insurance policy if we could sign him to a minor league or incentive filled major league contract.

Miller has a bad/torn/frayed rotator cuff.Boston tried the Wade Miller experiment last summer and everyone acted like Theo created water.Pass

IncredibleByNature
12-25-05, 09:41 PM
I'm not sure, but I think the Yanks might be able to outbid Milwaukee, if they put their minds to it. I think they should at least consider it.

He had a 5.93 ERA w/ Atlanta last season, why would we want the Yankees to pursue him?

StaceyRosie
12-25-05, 09:44 PM
He had a 5.93 ERA w/ Atlanta last season, why would we want the Yankees to pursue him?

Because with that ERA he'd fit in well with everyone else? :dunno: ;)

Yankyfan
12-25-05, 10:28 PM
Chavez signed yesterday with the Mets

mbn007
12-26-05, 07:19 AM
St.Louis gave Encarnacion 3 years/$15 million :eek:
Talk about someone who profited by being non-tendered!!

nhyankeefan
12-26-05, 08:04 AM
Miller has a bad/torn/frayed rotator cuff.Boston tried the Wade Miller experiment last summer and everyone acted like Theo created water.Pass

One of the reasons Miller struggled last year was that he tried to rehab his injury rather than having surgery. He had the surgery in September and is on schedule to being throwing in February. I'm not suggesting the Yanks sign him with the intention of his being an important part of the rotation, but rather as an insurance policy. With all the injury and age risks the Yanks starting rotation has I think he's a risk worth taking.

Fabien Brandy
12-26-05, 08:13 AM
Miller has a bad/torn/frayed rotator cuff.Boston tried the Wade Miller experiment last summer and everyone acted like Theo created water.Pass
I remember the gnashing of teeth by Yankee fans and crowing by Boston fans when Theo nabbed both Wade Miller and Matt Mantei, basically winning 'GM of the Year' by default.

They were both good ideas but also show the futility in getting worked up when your team passes on a rehab guy.

NewEraYanks2527
12-26-05, 09:49 AM
Wade Miller? :barf:

Byrnes always gives it his all, but eh.
I agree with you on Miller but I personally would like Byrnes in right field and Sheff at DH unless there is a lefty on the mound. An outfield of Matsui, Damon and Byrnes is a very solid defensive outfield and Sheff could DH more and stay healthy. I'd like to see Sheff and Giambi rotating at DH. Byrnes would also be a good late inning defensive replacement.

Fenrir
12-26-05, 09:53 AM
I'd be very interested in

Jamaal Strong - Never got a a fair shake in Seattle, I think he could help right now as a 4th or 5th OF type/pinch runner type. I still think he can be an everyday major leaguer.
Dewon Brazelton - another young guy with huge who has had problems, see if we can fix him
Olivo - age is his biggest weapon. he still has a chance to become the player people thought he was
Felix Diaz - Don't know what happened to him last year, worth a chance to get him on track in the minors.

longtimeyankeefan
12-26-05, 10:13 AM
Talk about someone who profited by being non-tendered!!

Except that Encarnacion filed for free agency on 10/27/05. He is not part of the non-tendered list.

yankeeman61
12-26-05, 11:00 AM
I think Borowski would be a good pickup but he's likely to be looking for a more prominent role than what the Yanks could offer at this point. He could be a backup plan if one or more of the newbies don't work out. The Yanks did accomplish making changes to the pen but I'm not certain it will be all positive. I guess Dotel is the backup plan for now but who knows for sure what he will give the Yanks? The fact the Yanks only gave him 1 year (really a half a year) deal indicates they are not all that confident either. At least Borowski is further along in his recovery and he is also a proven closer. He was breaking down a bit by the end of the year but that's not surprising in a post-surgery year. I think he will be back strong this year for somebody and he won't cost that much.

Jaeho
12-26-05, 11:41 AM
I guess Dotel is the backup plan for now but who knows for sure what he will give the Yanks? The fact the Yanks only gave him 1 year (really a half a year) deal indicates they are not all that confident either.

It had nothing to do with a lack of confidence by the Yankees. Dotel was only interested in a one year deal. If he can prove that he is healthy than he can easily get the type of deals Farnsworth and Gordon received next year. Look at the market for relievers.

The Yankees would have probably liked to have him inked to a longer deal. Dotel is taking a risk, but he is due for a much bigger reward if he can come back.

yankeeman61
12-26-05, 12:00 PM
It had nothing to do with a lack of confidence by the Yankees. Dotel was only interested in a one year deal. If he can prove that he is healthy than he can easily get the type of deals Farnsworth and Gordon received next year. Look at the market for relievers.

The Yankees would have probably liked to have him inked to a longer deal. Dotel is taking a risk, but he is due for a much bigger reward if he can come back.

They could have addressed that with performance/appearance incentives with at least an option for a second year. It's a risk for both sidesconsidering the Yanks probably won't see him until at least June.

BJG
12-26-05, 12:55 PM
They could have addressed that with performance/appearance incentives with at least an option for a second year. It's a risk for both sidesconsidering the Yanks probably won't see him until at least June.

An option for who? If it's a team option, Dotel wasn't signing. If it's a vesting option that would force Dotel to stay if he didn't want to, Dotel wasn't signing. If it's a player option, the only way Dotel is staying is if everything goes terribly, terribly wrong.

BJG
12-26-05, 12:56 PM
I agree with you on Miller but I personally would like Byrnes in right field and Sheff at DH unless there is a lefty on the mound. An outfield of Matsui, Damon and Byrnes is a very solid defensive outfield and Sheff could DH more and stay healthy. I'd like to see Sheff and Giambi rotating at DH. Byrnes would also be a good late inning defensive replacement.

Unless there's a lefty on the mound? Byrnes can only hit lefties.

jnewmark
12-26-05, 02:35 PM
[QUOTE=yankeeman61]They could have addressed that with performance/appearance incentives with at least an option for a second year. It's a risk for both sidesconsidering the Yanks probably won't see him until at least June.[/QUOTE

Looks like Dotel had his own " incentives " in mind already.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2271106

SupaYankee13
12-26-05, 02:53 PM
I think if we got Eric Byrnes we'd see more of this happening:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=nyye51912192136.ye_yankees_angels_baseball_nyye519&prov=ap

I'm sure we wouldn't want that.

Spiker101
12-26-05, 02:56 PM
He had a 5.93 ERA w/ Atlanta last season, why would we want the Yankees to pursue him?

Because he had a 2.98 in '05 and a 1.96 in '03. You'd essentially be betting (probably around $2 million) that '05 was a flukish bad year, caused by messed up mechanics or some undisclosed injury. He's got good stuff.

NewEraYanks2527
12-26-05, 03:41 PM
Unless there's a lefty on the mound? Byrnes can only hit lefties.
My mistake I miss wrote that, I meant to say when there is a lefty on the mound, I had all kinds of stats messed up on that one. My mistake, too much to drink on Xmas. My bad.

BJG
12-26-05, 03:44 PM
Because he had a 2.98 in '05 and a 1.96 in '03. You'd essentially be betting (probably around $2 million) that '05 was a flukish bad year, caused by messed up mechanics or some undisclosed injury. He's got good stuff.

Or maybe it has to do with the inherent variability in a guy who allows an extreme number of balls in play, and whose walk rate and HR rate are only ok). In addition, it seems whatever success he has had has been with Mike Maddux as his pitching coach.

BJG
12-26-05, 03:48 PM
My mistake I miss wrote that, I meant to say when there is a lefty on the mound, I had all kinds of stats messed up on that one. My mistake, too much to drink on Xmas. My bad.

No problemo. I think Byrnes is a bit of an ass, personally, who really doesn't fit in with the players the Yankees already have on the bench...guys who can also hit lefties, and who would complain about playing time in the process.

NewEraYanks2527
12-26-05, 06:28 PM
No problemo. I think Byrnes is a bit of an ass, personally, who really doesn't fit in with the players the Yankees already have on the bench...guys who can also hit lefties, and who would complain about playing time in the process.
You may be right. I really would just like to see the Yankees get someone good defensively for RF to compliment Damon in CF and have Sheff DH more. I think that is the best play of action and guys like Thomas, Piazza as mentioned in other threads are not the answer to this supposed DH problem

Spiker101
12-26-05, 07:02 PM
Or maybe it has to do with the inherent variability in a guy who allows an extreme number of balls in play, and whose walk rate and HR rate are only ok). In addition, it seems whatever success he has had has been with Mike Maddux as his pitching coach.

Yeah, he has a relatively low K rate, but when he was among the best relievers in the game in '04-'03 he also had one of the best GP/FB ratios in the game, 3.49 and 3.33 respectively. Last year the ratio fell to 1.98. That kind of dropoff is usually because of mechanics or possibly a sore back. I still argue he's worth looking at. He's at least as likely to produce as that Villone character.

yogibuck
12-27-05, 02:03 PM
Wade Miller pitched 90+ innings for the Red Sox last year at $1.5 M with a 4.95 ERA.

So according to the MLB market, he made about what he deserved.

He's currently recovering from a torn labrum so he is possibly damaged goods.

I'd go after him aggresively as a possible bullpen guy. He may have no interest, but it may be what he needs as a injury prone pitcher.

We can offer him an awesome rehab place in Tampa.

IncredibleByNature
12-27-05, 07:13 PM
Da
Because he had a 2.98 in '05 and a 1.96 in '03. You'd essentially be betting (probably around $2 million) that '05 was a flukish bad year, caused by messed up mechanics or some undisclosed injury. He's got good stuff.

What about his 4.65 ERA in '99, 4.70 ERA in '01 (albeit in a small amt. of innings), and 4.22 ERA in 2002 w/ Texas?

I just personally wouldn't want him on the Yankees.

bakntime
12-28-05, 05:19 AM
Because he had a 2.98 in '05 and a 1.96 in '03. You'd essentially be betting (probably around $2 million) that '05 was a flukish bad year, caused by messed up mechanics or some undisclosed injury. He's got good stuff.I gotta tell ya, though, Kolb was just flat out awful last year. ERA can be a little deceptive at times, especially for a reliever. Don't forget that these are NL numbers as well, and that by the time a closer comes in the game they're facing a team after any double switches have taken place and after the team's best pinch hitter was used, which can often mean a broken lineup with a team's 25th man batting 3rd or something, as opposed to facing a David Ortiz. His 1.96 ERA in 03 was accompanied by a rather average 1.28 WHIP... a very, very scary number for a reliever who'd be coming to the offense-laiden AL East. His career WHIP is 1.50, in 2005 he had an astonishingly flat out ridiculous 1.86 WHIP :eek: His K/BB ratios are also very frightening for a reliever with "good stuff". Even in his "career year" in '03, his K/BB ratio was right around 2:1 (39 Ks, 19 BBs). His low K totals for a closer/setup type guy are also a red flag (career 5.7 K/9). Just too many warning signs that are saying he's not very good.

The problem with "betting" on guys like this (Wade Miller, Danny Kolb) is that they're a waste of a roster spot. There's no flexibility. If they don't do well (which is extremely likely), you have to eat their salary and find a replacement. I'd rather juggle a guy or two from the minors (like Matt Smith or something) because of the roster flexibility rather than be stuck with a terrible pitcher like Kolb who has a very low reward value.

Spiker101
12-28-05, 12:58 PM
I gotta tell ya, though, Kolb was just flat out awful last year. ERA can be a little deceptive at times, especially for a reliever. Don't forget that these are NL numbers as well, and that by the time a closer comes in the game they're facing a team after any double switches have taken place and after the team's best pinch hitter was used, which can often mean a broken lineup with a team's 25th man batting 3rd or something, as opposed to facing a David Ortiz. His 1.96 ERA in 03 was accompanied by a rather average 1.28 WHIP... a very, very scary number for a reliever who'd be coming to the offense-laiden AL East. His career WHIP is 1.50, in 2005 he had an astonishingly flat out ridiculous 1.86 WHIP :eek: His K/BB ratios are also very frightening for a reliever with "good stuff". Even in his "career year" in '03, his K/BB ratio was right around 2:1 (39 Ks, 19 BBs). His low K totals for a closer/setup type guy are also a red flag (career 5.7 K/9). Just too many warning signs that are saying he's not very good.

The problem with "betting" on guys like this (Wade Miller, Danny Kolb) is that they're a waste of a roster spot. There's no flexibility. If they don't do well (which is extremely likely), you have to eat their salary and find a replacement. I'd rather juggle a guy or two from the minors (like Matt Smith or something) because of the roster flexibility rather than be stuck with a terrible pitcher like Kolb who has a very low reward value.

I wished I shared your enthusiasm for the Yanks minor league arms, but frankly if the Yanks had any major league ready arms in the minors we would seen them last year when the team was very, very desparate for pitching.
I know people like to look at strikeout numbers as if they held the answer to life's enduring mysteries but there are other ways of getting people out. Kolb, in his good years, had one of the game's best groundball/flyball ratios. In any case, he wouldn't be a "closer/setup" but more of a guy who comes into game in the sixth or seventh.
The discussion is apparently only academic since Kolb is apparently about to re-sign with the Brewers.

The FUTURE
12-28-05, 03:02 PM
I watched atleast 70 atlanta games last year...and Ill let chu in on a little secret...Kolb is only good for small market non pressure teams (like the Brew Crew). If he couldn't handle the pressure in atlanta....how do you think hes going to handle it under the bright lights of yankees stadium.:dunno:

hellonewman
12-28-05, 06:31 PM
I'd be very interested in

Dewon Brazelton - another young guy with huge who has had problems, see if we can fix him.Rightly or wrongly, I always got the impression that Lou Piniella had him scared to death. Has some ability, might be worth a look.

The FUTURE
12-28-05, 10:38 PM
Rightly or wrongly, I always got the impression that Lou Piniella had him scared to death. Has some ability, might be worth a look.


Brazelton signed a one year deal worth 500,000 with the padres.

hellonewman
12-29-05, 01:47 AM
Brazelton signed a one year deal worth 500,000 with the padres.Ahh, thanks.