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View Full Version : Hee Seop Choi likely to be non-tendered, should we pursue him?



Mark19
12-18-05, 01:12 AM
Choi pros:


He is only 26
He has near Gold Glove defense at first
Very powerful lefty swing
Kills righty pitching
Great PR tool for Korean baseball
Choi cons:


Struggles with breaking pitches
Can't hit lefties
Mediocre OBP
Can be inconsistent


You guys think he would make sense as a 1st baseman against righties while Giambi DHs?

AMYanks
12-18-05, 01:19 AM
I could see the Yankees going after him, unless Cashman TRULY is dedicated to going with Phillips as the backup. He'd be a nice addition to the bench, and as a spot starter. As long as it is a 1 year, cheap solution. Although, I would like to have a righty hitter to compliment Giambi. I still think he could definitely play a key role off the bench, and provide us with good late inning defense at the position.

I Love Wang
12-18-05, 01:19 AM
If he's non-tendered, I absolutely pick him up. He's already hit at the ML level, and he has a ton of potential.

Darth_Takeo
12-18-05, 01:58 AM
It's getting to be slim pickings if Choi is looking this attractive...

ryanthe13th
12-18-05, 02:02 AM
It's getting to be slim pickings if Choi is looking this attractive...

It's been slim pickings for quite sometime. Choi would be a good bench player I think. He got a lot of press because of that 3 HR game he had.

Yankees13
12-18-05, 04:43 AM
Choi/Phillips platoon?

rajah
12-18-05, 06:09 AM
Can the Y's really afford to have a 1B platoon in addition to Giambi? That is 3 roster spots for guys who really can't play other positions. That is not exactly the roster flexibility that Cashman wants. (And don't tell me that Phillips can play other IF spots because he has little range and would be a liability on defense. He is not a utility IFer.)

The Y's need an everyday 8th bat in the lineup. Right now they have 7 bats and 2 holes (Phillips and Crosby). Does Choi plug a hole against all pitching?

PoughVirginiaYankee
12-18-05, 06:21 AM
Wow...sounds good to me...I've always been a big fan of Hee Seop Choi - I remember his "next" article in ESPN...of course he hasn't lived up to those expectations, he can be pretty inconsistently good offensively. And like it's already been stated, his defense is consistently good - which is what really matters.

gdn
12-18-05, 06:44 AM
We've already got our own Choi: Phillips.

Yankees13
12-18-05, 06:52 AM
We've already got our own Choi: Phillips.
Phillips is right handed, Choi is left handed.

gdn
12-18-05, 07:00 AM
Phillips is right handed, Choi is left handed.So? Giambi's left-handed.

Yankees13
12-18-05, 07:02 AM
So? Giambi's left-handed.
Giambi is going to play everyday, they aren't platooning him with Phillips. Phillips needs a lefty platoon mate if he's going to be on the team.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 07:38 AM
Phillips needs a lefty platoon mate if he's going to be on the team.

For what, to be his "Go Fish" partner on the bench?

For whatever reason, there seems to be an opinion that Andy Phillips is a starter on this team - he is NOT people. He is going to spell Giambi at 1B some days. That's his role. Other than that, he is a bench player.

And, BTW, what is this fascination with every non-tendered player? For the most part, they are non-tendered for a reason and it does not have to do with their former team's inability to trade them. It has to do with their being lousy players.

Hee Seop Choi, for example, is a career .240 hitter - he, without a doubt, is the savior of this team. Lets get him signed. :sarcasm:

Yankees13
12-18-05, 07:42 AM
For what, to be his "Go Fish" partner on the bench?

For whatever reason, there seems to be an opinion that Andy Phillips is a starter on this team - he is NOT people. He is going to spell Giambi at 1B some days. That's his role. Other than that, he is a bench player.
If he's going to be a bench player, fine, I'm saying if Cashman is planning to have him split off DH/1B with Giambi, than we need a 3rd, left handed bat in the mix.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 07:45 AM
If he's going to be a bench player, fine, I'm saying if Cashman is planning to have him split off DH/1B with Giambi, than we need a 3rd, left handed bat in the mix.

I have seen nothing reported yet this offseason that suggests that Andy Phillips is going to get any material ABs as the DH on this team. What I have seen reported are comments from Cashman that Phillips is capable of being the backup 1Bman.

Yankees13
12-18-05, 07:55 AM
I have seen nothing reported yet this offseason that suggests that Andy Phillips is going to get any material ABs as the DH on this team. What I have seen reported are comments from Cashman that Phillips is capable of being the backup 1Bman.
It seems to me that some of Cash's comments make it seem like he might get regular ABs. Maybe I just misinterperted them.

webassign
12-18-05, 08:03 AM
Heck no, I'm going the be the first Korean player on the Yankees.

splanky
12-18-05, 08:06 AM
I think one could argue that BK Kim was the first Korean player on the Yankees. He may have been wearing a AZ uniform but.....

Heck no, I'm going the be the first Korean player on the Yankees.

SoCal Pinstriper
12-18-05, 08:20 AM
He has near Gold Glove defense at first
This is an an exageration. Choi is better than average, but will never be considered for a Gold Glove.

Choi, IMO, is in a catch 22 at this point in his career. On one hand, he looks attractive as a role player because of his occasional power and his ability to draw walks consistantly. OTOH, he puts up most of his best numbers in stretches in which he is afforded the opportunity to start multiple games succession, and has been mediocre in a part time role.

He has never made more than the league minimum, and will continue to draw interest because his numbers indicate that he shouls be a cost effective back up. In reality, at 26, he needs an opportunity to get 500+ at bats. His obp (.326 in 320 abs in 2005) will continue to slide without more playing time.

If he is ever going to realize his potential, he needs to go somwhere where they'll write him into the lineup everyday against righthanded pitching. He'll never get that opportunity here (Tino got 303 ABs last year). I think it would be a bad move for the Yankees, and a terrible move for Choi.

gdn
12-18-05, 09:49 AM
I think one could argue that BK Kim was the first Korean player on the Yankees. He may have been wearing a AZ uniform but.....Who is BK Kim? Burger King Kim?

The guy who pitched for AZ was BH Kim.

JJazz
12-18-05, 10:06 AM
Hee Seop Choi, for example, is a career .240 hitter - he, without a doubt, is the savior of this team. Lets get him signed. :sarcasm:

Hee Seop Choi had a .796 OPS vs. righties last year and a .722 OPS vs. lefties. Andy Phillips gave us .450 and .540. Choi's not a savior, but he's an upgrade over Phillips. Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average, but he's got it all over Andy Phillips, who has yet to prove he can even sporadically hit ML pitching.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-18-05, 10:10 AM
Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average

I"m sold, let's get him.

38Special
12-18-05, 10:13 AM
he wont be non-tendered

traded? definitely

Johnny O
12-18-05, 10:20 AM
This is like an exact replica of the Durazo thread - why is there so much resistance to improving the roster with free talent? Having a stacked 25 man roster is one of the keys to winning, anytime there is an inexpensive opportunity to improve the team it should be pursued.

BJG
12-18-05, 10:26 AM
This is like an exact replica of the Durazo thread - why is there so much resistance to improving the roster with free talent? Having a stacked 25 man roster is one of the keys to winning, anytime there is an inexpensive opportunity to improve the team it should be pursued.

Because there are only 25 spots on the roster. Those 25 spots need to compliment each other. The Yankees have at least 3 players who would be better off getting regular time at DH. A full-time DH, or even a full-time 1B, doesn't make that possible.

If your argument is that Choi or Durazo would be nice to have on the bench, sure, that would be great, but these are free agents. They are going to seek an opportunity to play regularly, and someone is likely to give it to them.

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-18-05, 10:40 AM
id rather get durazo if he feels like coming here for the bench, id sure as hell rather have him than Bernie Williams

yanksphan
12-18-05, 11:07 AM
Why would the Dodgers NT him?

They'll get offers for him no doubt.

YankeeFan1
12-18-05, 11:07 AM
Choi isn't going to be non-tendered. However, if the Yankees can get him at reasonable cost they should, he is a hell of an upgrade over Phillips.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 11:08 AM
Hee Seop Choi had a .796 OPS vs. righties last year and a .722 OPS vs. lefties. Andy Phillips gave us .450 and .540. Choi's not a savior, but he's an upgrade over Phillips. Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average, but he's got it all over Andy Phillips, who has yet to prove he can even sporadically hit ML pitching.

How do we know that Choi is an upgrade over Phillips? Phillips has played a total of 32 ML games - is that a career that we are supposed to judge his talent on?

Phillips has regularly put up decent numbers in the minors, including OPS of .957 and .952 the last two seasons at AAA. He is going to cost this team the ML minimum.

Choi has played for three different ML teams in his three ML seasons and for a good reason - he really isn't that good. He is SLOW, he has 19% more strikeouts than he has hits and his fielding is average.

I would rather go with the Phillips option than picking up someone elses castoffs, thank you very much.


This is like an exact replica of the Durazo thread - why is there so much resistance to improving the roster with free talent? Having a stacked 25 man roster is one of the keys to winning, anytime there is an inexpensive opportunity to improve the team it should be pursued.

Why is it that you are more interested than other team's castoffs than going with those individuals who have shown us something in the minors when we are talking about bench players?

Yankeeah
12-18-05, 11:09 AM
Instead of having two 1B that can hit righties but struggle against lefties, why dont we get one that can hit lefties?

JeffWeaverFan
12-18-05, 11:32 AM
I think Andy Phillips can hit as well as Choi if not better, but then again, that's just my guess. And, I don't think we have enough room for both Phillips and Choi on the roster.

Johnny O
12-18-05, 11:53 AM
Why is it that you are more interested than other team's castoffs than going with those individuals who have shown us something in the minors when we are talking about bench players?[/QUOTE]

Dismissively not considering a player who's been DFAed or non-tendered would be to ignore a significant source of potential talent - witness David Ortiz and Bronson Arroyo.

And refering to these players as castoffs is weak way to make an argument.

The presence of Durazo/Choi would not exclude Phillips from the roster (and if it did, Phillips is 28 years old and has very little MLB experience, something to consider). Every spot on the 25 man roster is important and should be manned by the best players possible.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-18-05, 11:56 AM
I like Choi better than Phillips. he's younger, has some pop, is a lefty and plays a great first basae

Stealthspy
12-18-05, 01:18 PM
One or the other, but not both. Choi has failed in many chances over the years, so I'm not sure whether or not I want him anyway. In any case, we don't really need three first baseman.

Munson's 'Stash
12-18-05, 01:21 PM
Re Phillips vs Choi:

Despite questionable playing time, anytime you have a 28 year old who hasn't gotten out of the Minors he is probably an inferior player to the 26 yr old who could start on some teams (barring the occasional A. Small fluke)*. Choi's being LH probably hurts in relation to Giambi, but Yankee stadium does tend to favor LHH.

* see also Crosby, Bubba.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 01:35 PM
Re Phillips vs Choi:

Despite questionable playing time, anytime you have a 28 year old who hasn't gotten out of the Minors he is probably an inferior player to the 26 yr old who could start on some teams (barring the occasional A. Small fluke)*. Choi's being LH probably hurts in relation to Giambi, but Yankee stadium does tend to favor LHH.

* see also Crosby, Bubba.

Phillips hasn't gotten out of the minors for the Yankees in large part because their was not place for him on the major league level. With ARod & Giambi at the corner IF positions, its not like the Yankees needed him at the ML level.

Given the offensive numbers that Phillips has put up at the AAA level (.294/.359/.534/.893), I see no reason to go out an sign someone who has been rejected by another team to fill the complementary role that Phillips is designated for.

BTW - Small is a lousy example to cite of the "catching fire in a bottle from the career minor leaguer" idea. Small had seven rather unremarkable seasons at the ML level prior to the Yankee breakout. He made his ML debut back in 1994.

guidry36
12-18-05, 01:53 PM
If the Yankees go with someone other than Phillips, a 1-year deal for Travis Lee or JT Snow would make more sense. Choi has more power, but isn't nearly as good with the glove as those 2. Lee may require more at bats than the Yankees could offer, so Snow might be a better 1-year option. Choi will have other opportunities with more playing time. He would be better off on a small market team with less pressure. Phillips has at least paid his dues in the minors. The D-Rays are still talking to Lee and the red sox have interest in Lee or Snow.

Munson's 'Stash
12-18-05, 03:13 PM
BTW - Small is a lousy example to cite of the "catching fire in a bottle from the career minor leaguer" idea. Small had seven rather unremarkable seasons at the ML level prior to the Yankee breakout. He made his ML debut back in 1994.

I apologize, I meant to call him a "career AAAA" guy: someone who can do well in the minors but looks completely overmatched when he gets to the majors. IMO Phillips fits this definition very well and will not compare to Choi (although I think Choi will need regular ABs). So I may have mislabled Small, but I think the "L.I.B." idea applies.

BJG
12-18-05, 03:32 PM
Every spot on the 25 man roster is important and should be manned by the best players possible.

You keep saying this as if roster construction occurs entirely in a vacuum. It doesn't. If you have left-handed hitting 2B, for example, who needs a platoon mate, then selecting another LH middle infielder for your bench who also can't hit lefties, even if he is the better overall hitter than another 2B who can just hit lefties, is a bad idea. The 'lesser' player is actually better for the situation.

Basically, the goal is not to pick the 25 best players, it's to pick the 25 players that work best together. In the Yankees case, this means not carrying a guy like Choi or Durazo who is expecting regular playing time but can only play 1B or DH (and with Durazo, the former is questionable). What would work for the Yankees is a way to split DH time primarily between Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi. This might mean 1 player who is capable of playing 1B, RF, and LF. It might mean a corner outfielder who needs to be platooned with 1B who hits lefties. Either way, you are getting a player who fits into the team's needs.

On top of this, it would be wonderful if you could get a bunch of great guys who all would expect 150 plate appearences and happily sit on the bench the rest of the time...build a supper bench for the whole season. This just isn't realistic. Players go where they can play as much as possible. At the trade deadline, you can add a vet to sit on the bench a little easier, but really, that's about it.

Don Mack
12-18-05, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJazz
Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average
-------------------------------------------------------

I'm sold, let's get him.
-------------------------------------------------------
:lol: :lol: :lol: At least we won't be disappointed when the Yankees don't even give him a look see. C'mon, let's sign Hee Seop Choi, I really want to see him on the roster.

Murcer'swerebest
12-18-05, 04:16 PM
I'm very skeptical of the notion that Choi is a plus defender. I saw an ESPN sunday night game either this year or 2004 in which the Dodgers were one of the teams playing. Choi looked TERRIBLE in the field.

Sure, it was just one game but I doubt that Olerud or Mattingly or Keith Hernandez ever looked anywhere near that slow and uncoordinated. He was awful. Grounders went under his glove that were hit medium hard just 3 feet to his right. If Giambi missed the same plays you'd say he was having a bad night by HIS standards. Really good defensive first basemen never have really bad nights by Giambi's standards.

Clemens831
12-18-05, 04:20 PM
Phillips hasn't gotten out of the minors for the Yankees in large part because their was not place for him on the major league level. With ARod & Giambi at the corner IF positions, its not like the Yankees needed him at the ML level.

Given the offensive numbers that Phillips has put up at the AAA level (.294/.359/.534/.893), I see no reason to go out an sign someone who has been rejected by another team to fill the complementary role that Phillips is designated for.

BTW - Small is a lousy example to cite of the "catching fire in a bottle from the career minor leaguer" idea. Small had seven rather unremarkable seasons at the ML level prior to the Yankee breakout. He made his ML debut back in 1994.

There was not a place for him on the ML roster? How about all of last season when Giambi wasn't even hitting his weight? There's a reason that Cashman went with Olerud (Who looked washed up) and Tony Clark (Who also looked washed up) instead of Andy Phillips. Where was he early this season when Giambi was doing nothing at the plate?
Plus, if ANYONE actually saw ANY potential in Phillips, don't you think he might have become trade bait with Giambi and A-Rod on the roster? Has anyone even asked for him in any trades...ever? When you're 28 and still in the minors...that says something (for both Phillips AND Crosby).

flymick24
12-18-05, 04:25 PM
There was not a place for him on the ML roster? How about all of last season when Giambi wasn't even hitting his weight? There's a reason that Cashman went with Olerud

yes, because torre prefers veterans

Evil Empire
12-18-05, 04:33 PM
Hey, Choi has a fan base.

http://choicentral.blogspot.com/

Clemens831
12-18-05, 04:35 PM
yes, because torre prefers veterans

If he had so much potential I doubt it'd really be that much of an issue. He stuck with Cano over Womack at 2nd even when Cano got off to a miserable start.

yankeebot
12-18-05, 04:36 PM
Hee Seop Choi is ok but I am always hungry an hour later.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 04:38 PM
There was not a place for him on the ML roster? How about all of last season when Giambi wasn't even hitting his weight? There's a reason that Cashman went with Olerud (Who looked washed up) and Tony Clark (Who also looked washed up) instead of Andy Phillips. Where was he early this season when Giambi was doing nothing at the plate?
Plus, if ANYONE actually saw ANY potential in Phillips, don't you think he might have become trade bait with Giambi and A-Rod on the roster? Has anyone even asked for him in any trades...ever? When you're 28 and still in the minors...that says something (for both Phillips AND Crosby).

1. Because of their concern about Giambi and his health, the Yankees went out and signed veteran backup. Now that his health issues seem behind him, they are less inclined to worry about his needing to be replaced over a long period of time.

2. With his AAA numbers, I would be shocked to discover that his name hasn't come up in trade talks in the past. The fact that his name is not being reported does not mean his name is not mentioned.

3. With the Yankees, being >25 in the minors seems to be the norm. In an organization that values veterans over youth, is that such a surprise?

Johnny O
12-18-05, 04:42 PM
You keep saying this as if roster construction occurs entirely in a vacuum. It doesn't. If you have left-handed hitting 2B, for example, who needs a platoon mate, then selecting another LH middle infielder for your bench who also can't hit lefties, even if he is the better overall hitter than another 2B who can just hit lefties, is a bad idea. The 'lesser' player is actually better for the situation.

Basically, the goal is not to pick the 25 best players, it's to pick the 25 players that work best together. In the Yankees case, this means not carrying a guy like Choi or Durazo who is expecting regular playing time but can only play 1B or DH (and with Durazo, the former is questionable). What would work for the Yankees is a way to split DH time primarily between Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi. This might mean 1 player who is capable of playing 1B, RF, and LF. It might mean a corner outfielder who needs to be platooned with 1B who hits lefties. Either way, you are getting a player who fits into the team's needs.

On top of this, it would be wonderful if you could get a bunch of great guys who all would expect 150 plate appearences and happily sit on the bench the rest of the time...build a supper bench for the whole season. This just isn't realistic. Players go where they can play as much as possible. At the trade deadline, you can add a vet to sit on the bench a little easier, but really, that's about it.

I appreciate your example, but give me a little credit please, I certainly understand roster construction and platoon splits. I'm not advocating the acquisition of players just for the hell of it, I'm talking about acquiring a player on the cheap that would help the team win more games.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 04:42 PM
If he had so much potential I doubt it'd really be that much of an issue. He stuck with Cano over Womack at 2nd even when Cano got off to a miserable start.

Prior to Cano, name the last rookie that Torre stuck with for any length of time?

As near as I can tell, it was Erick Almonte, when Jeter got injured opening day in 2003. Prior to that, it was Soriano in 2001.

The fact is that Torre (and the Yankees) rarely depend upon rookie talent - whether on the bench or in the regular lineup.

BJG
12-18-05, 05:00 PM
A Brian Daubach type or a David Newhan type has inherently more value in your own orgainzation. Certianly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to trade for these kinds of guys, as you are giving up something for the kind of player whose long term impact is limited and who you could find in AAA somewhere in your own organizatioin. That doesn't mean that, for a couple of peak seasons, they can't be useful contributors, especially if you limit their exposure to situations at which they are likely to be the best at (for example, against lefties for Phillips).

You also have to remember that these kinds of guys aren't long term solutions. What you are looking to get is average production out of them during their peak years. In other words, as good as they are going to get in their careers is probably average, but if you need average and you have the guy at their peak, you get average for a year or 2.

Yankees1962
12-18-05, 06:49 PM
Prior to Cano, name the last rookie that Torre stuck with for any length of time?

As near as I can tell, it was Erick Almonte, when Jeter got injured opening day in 2003. Prior to that, it was Soriano in 2001.

The fact is that Torre (and the Yankees) rarely depend upon rookie talent - whether on the bench or in the regular lineup.
They rarely depended on rookie talent because they never had to until circumstances told them differently.

longtimeyankeefan
12-18-05, 06:56 PM
They rarely depended on rookie talent because they never had to until circumstances told them differently.

They never had to because they simply threw money at the issue.

Being a baseball fan, I long for the days when teams actually contained players that made it to the majors through your system, rather than the free agent du jour.

JeffWeaverFan
12-19-05, 04:58 PM
If he had so much potential I doubt it'd really be that much of an issue. He stuck with Cano over Womack at 2nd even when Cano got off to a miserable start.
The only reason he did that is because Cashman made the move.

Phillips doesn't have so much potential. But, he can be a productive player. For the record, Torre does play veterans over youngsters.

38Special
12-19-05, 05:17 PM
The only reason he did that is because Cashman made the move.

Phillips doesn't have so much potential. But, he can be a productive player. For the record, Torre does play veterans over youngsters.
Like every other manager

JeffWeaverFan
12-19-05, 05:21 PM
Like every other manager
Yeah, some more so than others. Torre does it more so than others. My favorite was Todd Zeille getting playing time instead of Nick Johnson.

bigguygonz
12-19-05, 05:45 PM
Any 1B that gets concussed by running into his pitcher (see Choi during Clemens 300 try in Chicago) and has to be removed from the game is not worth a look in my book. :D

38Special
12-19-05, 05:54 PM
Yeah, some more so than others. Torre does it more so than others. My favorite was Todd Zeille getting playing time instead of Nick Johnson.
My favorite was Nick Johnson getting twice the ABs as Zeile, and that includes the time that Nick was on the DL with a fractured bone in his hand

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=6401&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=4384&year=2003

wooo wee selective memory

BJG
12-19-05, 06:12 PM
My favorite was Nick Johnson getting twice the ABs as Zeile, and that includes the time that Nick was on the DL with a fractured bone in his hand

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=6401&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=4384&year=2003

wooo wee selective memory

The issue is not whether the problem was corrected, it's why it took so long to correct it.

38Special
12-19-05, 06:14 PM
The issue is not whether the problem was corrected, it's why it took so long to correct it.
Correct what? His injury?

ShaneTravis
12-19-05, 06:17 PM
Non-tendered? I hightly doubt it. The guy makes 350,000 a year. He's no Lee or Pujols but there is value there. Doubt they let him go for free.

Remember when he was with Florida he hit pretty well. And he plays a very good defensive first base, albeit a few mishaps here and there.

BJG
12-19-05, 06:36 PM
Correct what? His injury?

Ziele got at bats when there were other choices, be they Johnson or someone else. He did so despite an inability to perform. He was given this leash because he was friends with Torre dating back to their tiime together in St. Louis.

38Special
12-19-05, 06:56 PM
Ziele got at bats when there were other choices, be they Johnson or someone else. He did so despite an inability to perform. He was given this leash because he was friends with Torre dating back to their tiime together in St. Louis.
His point was that Zeile got ABs over Johnson, which he didnt.

JeffWeaverFan
12-19-05, 07:01 PM
My favorite was Nick Johnson getting twice the ABs as Zeile, and that includes the time that Nick was on the DL with a fractured bone in his hand

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=6401&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=4384&year=2003

wooo wee selective memory
The point is that Zeile was given AB's strictly because he was a veteran and Torre liked him when there were better options on the team. The point is that Torre plays veterans because of that fact instead of playing the best available player. The point is that Torre plays favorites. The point is that Torre does this more so than other managers.

rajah
12-19-05, 07:03 PM
IMHO, you have become the star of this web site, 38special,

Yankees1962
12-19-05, 07:05 PM
The point is that Zeile was given AB's strictly because he was a veteran and Torre liked him when there were better options on the team. The point is that Torre plays veterans because of that fact instead of playing the best available player. The point is that Torre plays favorites. The point is that Torre does this more so than other managers.
I like to see you quantify how Torre does this more than other managers? Of course, you can't do that, but that's my point.

38Special
12-19-05, 07:25 PM
I like to see you quantify how Torre does this more than other managers? Of course, you can't do that, but that's my point.
My point is that you have a good point

nyctalopia
12-19-05, 08:10 PM
Hee Seop Choi is ok but I am always hungry an hour later.
wow. culturally insensitive at best. outright racist at worst. not funny at all. :(

38Special
12-19-05, 08:33 PM
no joking on the internet. It's not Hee Seop's fault that his name sounds like a fine asian delicacy

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 01:18 AM
wow. culturally insensitive at best. outright racist at worst. not funny at all. :(

I think it was funny.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 02:54 AM
I like to see you quantify how Torre does this more than other managers? Of course, you can't do that, but that's my point.
Obviously I can't, but does that mean you agree with the other "points"?

ICEBERG18
12-20-05, 07:48 AM
NON-TENDERS THIS WEEK; THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN
If, as expected, the Dodgers do not offer a contract to first baseman Hee Seop Choi by Tuesday's midnight deadline, the Yankees should strongly consider signing him to be Jason Giambi's partner. This would make a great deal more sense than blowing money on Miguel Cairo. Choi, 27 in March, is a lefty power hitter who had a good sense of the strike zone, at least until the Dodgers started to undermine his confidence. He had a rough year defensively, too, but is generally considered to be a smooth first baseman. His '05 numbers of .253/.336/.453 with the Dodgers translate to .260/.345/.476. He might not be the next David Ortíz, but he could be an asset to the Yankees in a timeshare with Andy Phillips.

In this bench alignment, Phillips would be considered a reserve infielder (he has played first, second, and third in the minors). The Yankees don't need a reserve shortstop because Alex Rodríguez can slide over in an emergency. Assuming a Choi signing took place, the roster would look like this:

PLAYER POS
Jason Giambi 1B
Andy Phillips 1B/3B
Hee Seop Choi 1B
Robinson Canó 2B
Alex Rodríguez 3B
Derek Jeter SS
Gary Sheffield RF
Bubba Crosby CF
Hideki Matsui LF
Bernie Williams* OF
Jorge Posada C
Kelly Stinnett C
* provided he and the Yankees come to terms

Depending on how many pitchers the Yankees want to carry — hopefully 11, probably 12 — this would leave one or two slots open for another reserve or perhaps a legitimate center fielder.

One note on a possible Cairo signing and the team's predilection for mediocre veterans: Felix Escalona is no prospect, but his translated numbers from Columbus aren't any worse than anything Cairo might do. If Escalona can play second base (he's already played short and third in the minors), he would make just as good a 25th man, and, again, a cheaper one.

http://admin.yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp

Jaeho
12-20-05, 09:01 AM
NON-TENDERS THIS WEEK; THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN
If, as expected, the Dodgers do not offer a contract to first baseman Hee Seop Choi by Tuesday's midnight deadline, the Yankees should strongly consider signing him to be Jason Giambi's partner. This would make a great deal more sense than blowing money on Miguel Cairo. Choi, 27 in March, is a lefty power hitter who had a good sense of the strike zone, at least until the Dodgers started to undermine his confidence. He had a rough year defensively, too, but is generally considered to be a smooth first baseman. His '05 numbers of .253/.336/.453 with the Dodgers translate to .260/.345/.476. He might not be the next David Ortíz, but he could be an asset to the Yankees in a timeshare with Andy Phillips.

In this bench alignment, Phillips would be considered a reserve infielder (he has played first, second, and third in the minors). The Yankees don't need a reserve shortstop because Alex Rodríguez can slide over in an emergency. Assuming a Choi signing took place, the roster would look like this:

PLAYER POS
Jason Giambi 1B
Andy Phillips 1B/3B
Hee Seop Choi 1B
Robinson Canó 2B
Alex Rodríguez 3B
Derek Jeter SS
Gary Sheffield RF
Bubba Crosby CF
Hideki Matsui LF
Bernie Williams* OF
Jorge Posada C
Kelly Stinnett C
* provided he and the Yankees come to terms

Depending on how many pitchers the Yankees want to carry — hopefully 11, probably 12 — this would leave one or two slots open for another reserve or perhaps a legitimate center fielder.

One note on a possible Cairo signing and the team's predilection for mediocre veterans: Felix Escalona is no prospect, but his translated numbers from Columbus aren't any worse than anything Cairo might do. If Escalona can play second base (he's already played short and third in the minors), he would make just as good a 25th man, and, again, a cheaper one.

http://admin.yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp

I like how Goldman just assumes these guys can play the positions at the major league level. I stopped taking him seriously after being told that Ben Julianel was "just" 26 in AA and how he would be ready this year. Steve, there is this thing called AAA where Julianel would likely suck for two more years before even sniffing the majors. I am glad you are among the 1% of Yankee fans that hated the Villone/Julianel trade. You are in good company. He also forgot that Smith stunk up the AFL and needs more AAA time. But Goldman is on this anti-veteran kick so I am not surprised.

38Special
12-20-05, 09:13 AM
He said the Villone trade was bad? Jeez. Julianel walked more than 4 guys per 9 innings, gave up a ton of hits, and struggles to hit 90 on the gun. I dont care how many guys he strikes out

SoCal Pinstriper
12-20-05, 09:21 AM
But the most immediate decision is what to do with the club's arbitration-eligible players, Choi and catcher Jason Phillips, in advance of tonight's 9 p.m. deadline for tendering contract offers to such players.

Phillips is expected to be non-tendered and become a free agent. But if an agreement can be reached with Choi sometime today to avoid arbitration, he will remain with the club as a backup first baseman and left-handed bat off the bench.

Choi, who made $351,500 last season and wasn't especially productive, will command a 2006 salary in the $500,000 range as a first-time arbitration-eligible player. He does have a minor-league option remaining, which probably means the Dodgers are trying to sign him to a split contract that won't require them to pay his full major-league salary if he is sent down.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3325109

TEPLimey
12-20-05, 10:14 AM
the Yankees should strongly consider signing him to be Jason Giambi's partner. This would make a great deal more sense than blowing money on Miguel Cairo.

Signing a 1B (when we have two already in Phillips and Giambi) would certainly make a lot more sense than "blowing" $1-2M on a serviceable backup infielder (when we have none). Yup.

DJ27
12-20-05, 10:20 AM
Signing a 1B (when we have two already in Phillips and Giambi) would certainly make a lot more sense than "blowing" $1-2M on a serviceable backup infielder (when we have none). Yup.

I agree.. Miggy would be a good fit for us.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 10:21 AM
If Harris gets non-tendered, I'd much rather have him than Cairo.

DJ27
12-20-05, 10:23 AM
If Harris gets non-tendered, I'd much rather have him than Cairo.

As long as he doesn't develop the Tony Womack attitude. Only sign him if he understands the role.

BJG
12-20-05, 10:25 AM
I like to see you quantify how Torre does this more than other managers? Of course, you can't do that, but that's my point.

"Because everyone else makes the same mistake" isn't really a good reason.

BJG
12-20-05, 10:29 AM
If Harris gets non-tendered, I'd much rather have him than Cairo.

As another lefty who can't hit lefties, he doesn't really compliment Cano well. I'd like the backup middle infielder to be a guy for whom you can sit Cano against a tough lefty.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 10:31 AM
As another lefty who can't hit lefties, he doesn't really compliment Cano well. I'd like the backup middle infielder to be a guy for whom you can sit Cano against a tough lefty.

I like Harris because of his speed and versatility (he can play 2B, SS, and CF), which I personally view as more importantly than somebody to bench Cano for. If Phillips is on the team, he can play against a tough lefty. We'll be sacrificing some defense, but it would be worth it, in my opinion.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 10:32 AM
As long as he doesn't develop the Tony Womack attitude. Only sign him if he understands the role.

I don't think Harris thinks he would be getting a starting job.

Mark19
12-20-05, 07:24 PM
Dodgers re-signed him

He won't get much playing time at all, maybe he has Cairo's old agent

yanksphan
12-20-05, 07:55 PM
Dodgers re-signed him

He won't get much playing time at all, maybe he has Cairo's old agent

You have a lot of faith in Nomar, eh?

NewEraYanks2527
12-20-05, 08:09 PM
You have a lot of faith in Nomar, eh?
Choi will be starting at first for LA by May.

SoCal Pinstriper
12-21-05, 01:06 PM
Choi will be starting at first for LA by May.He's more likely to be starting in AAA Las Vegas.

Shortly after they officially announced the signing of free-agent center fielder Kenny Lofton to a one-year, $3.85 million contract Tuesday, the Dodgers re-signed Hee-Seop Choi to a one-year, $725,000 deal mere hours before a 9 p.m. deadline to tender offers to players not already signed.
In addition to giving the club insurance at first base and another left-handed bat off the bench, it might have saved the struggling Choi's career.

For now, anyway.

With attempts to trade Choi having been unsuccessful due to lack of interest around baseball, the Dodgers would have non-tendered him had he not agreed to terms. That would have made him a free agent, and the best Choi could have hoped for probably was a minor-league contract with another club and an invitation to big-league spring training.

In essence, this contract presents Choi with the same circumstance. It doesn't contain a standard-guarantee provision, meaning Choi receives only a percentage of his salary if he is released before Opening Day. If he is cut during the final two weeks of camp, Choi will get $178,278. If he is cut earlier than that, he will receive $118,852.

In the season and a half since the Dodgers acquired him from Florida, he has hit 15 homers and driven in 48 runs, but batted only .238 while striking out once every 3.9 at-bats. http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3328191

SoCal Pinstriper
02-18-06, 04:02 PM
A Choi update:

Choi's role: First baseman Hee-Seop Choi, who reported three days early and took batting practice, said it isn't clear where he will fit now that the Dodgers have signed Nomar Garciaparra to play first base.

"Maybe just a backup, maybe a pinch hitter," said Choi, who has a .123 career average (8 for 65) as a pinch hitter. "But I'm OK. I'll just play hard in the World Baseball Classic and here in spring training and see what happens."

The Dodgers are hoping to use the WBC, where Choi will play for South Korea, as a showcase for a player they think has some value on the market if not on their bench. They could have non-tendered him over the winter but instead chose to sign him to a one-year, $725,000 deal. That's more than double what he made last year but still cheap enough that the Dodgers could command a serviceable player in return if they find a taker for the lumbering Choi.

Choi hit 15 home runs last year, but seven of them came in a four-game stretch in June. He also struck out 80 times in 320 at-bats and was a defensive liability at first base. http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3521319

DontHateOnNumber2
02-22-06, 02:29 AM
No thanks, the Yankees would save significantly more money by keeping Phillips as the backup first baseman.

DontHateOnNumber2
02-22-06, 02:31 AM
Sorry I just saw that he signed a one-year contract with the Dodgers.

Yankeeah
02-22-06, 07:41 AM
No thanks, the Yankees would save significantly more money by keeping Phillips as the backup first baseman.

I know he's off the market but the money difference would be like 400,000, so it's really nothing.

gEO3b4
02-22-06, 08:21 AM
I wouldnt have minded bringing him in on a minor league deal. Nothing guaranteed though. Oh well, doesnt matter now anyway.

LeapsNbounds
02-22-06, 04:38 PM
dogers wouldn't have let him go, he is a great insurance policy when (and you know he will) Nomar goes down with an injury or something like that.

ShaneTravis
03-24-06, 07:41 AM
*Bump*

Confused. Anyone following the Dodgers? How is Choi not making the team? And If I am not mistaken I thought the Dodgers signed him to a one-year contract for around $750,000. They are going to eat that money and release him?

http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp

HEE SEOP CHOI WON'T MAKE THE DODGERS ROSTER

He's likely to be released. Brian Cashman, are you listening? This would be a tremendous depth signing. I've written about Choi several times before so I'm not going to recapitulate the discussion here today, but carrying one less pitcher and one more Choi would shrink Bernie Williams into a more appropriate utility outfielder role and give the Yankees the lefty power bat off the bench that they have been missing since Darryl Strawberry turned to the dark side.

38Special
03-24-06, 07:50 AM
They will only have to pay him a couple hundred thousand if they release him. Goldstein is way off on that one. Choi has been bad the last few years, and getting another lefty first baseman and one who cant hit lefties or play good defense would be stupid

ShaneTravis
03-24-06, 08:03 AM
They will only have to pay him a couple hundred thousand if they release him. Goldstein is way off on that one. Choi has been bad the last few years, and getting another lefty first baseman and one who cant hit lefties or play good defense would be stupid

I'm good with keeping Phillips.
My thought was why is Steve continually bringing Choi's name up? I have heard nothing about the Dodgers letting him go. The point is probably moot, there is no room for him on the team as it is. Steve wants to drop a pitcher and that might not be wise right now.

YankClipper5
03-24-06, 09:09 AM
I'm good with keeping Phillips.
My thought was why is Steve continually bringing Choi's name up? I have heard nothing about the Dodgers letting him go. The point is probably moot, there is no room for him on the team as it is. Steve wants to drop a pitcher and that might not be wise right now.

Definitely with Wright, Pavano, and Sturtze a little behind schedule and Small starting on the DL as well, we can't afford to carry any less pitching. Phillips, while I have knocked him many times and suggested a better platoon guy for 1b, I just don't think Choi is the guy we need, even if he had a decent WBC.

Jaeho
03-24-06, 01:26 PM
My thought was why is Steve continually bringing Choi's name up?

Who knows? It seems that over time, Goldman has lost touch more and more with reality and how baseball is played. His blog is really more about his strong political views, movie reviews, book reviews, and any other inane thoughts that pop into his head. His baseball related musings are just the hook to get you to read his ramblings and rants. Frankly, I am not sure why anyone would read Goldman for his thoughts on the Yankees. You learn that he hates Miguel Cairo, he can quote PECOTA, and not much else.

I have no idea why YES continues to give him a forum when there are plenty of other Yankees blogs who would actually talk about baseball and provide better analysis.

JeffWeaverFan
03-24-06, 01:33 PM
I'm also fine with keeping Phillips, but building a Yankee team with lefty power instead of righty power is always a good thing given the dimensions of the stadium.

Snatch Catch
03-24-06, 01:41 PM
How is "utility OF" an appropriate role for Bernie?

kan_t
03-24-06, 01:50 PM
My thought was why is Steve continually bringing Choi's name up? I have heard nothing about the Dodgers letting him go.

Update: Choi might not make the team's Opening Day roster, reports the LA Daily News.

Recommendation: The Dodgers could theoretically release Choi if he clears waivers, thereby enabling them to pay just $178,000 of Choi's $725,000 contract. James Loney is set to be Triple-A Las Vegas' first baseman, so a minor league demotion appears unlikely. Look for Choi in another uniform come March 29th.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-eeeophointheubble&prov=rotowire&type=lgns

He is not suitable for us, as he can't hit lefty. But other teams which need a bat should grab him. He will be very useful if the team uses him rightly.

38Special
03-24-06, 03:53 PM
Theo reads this forum

ICEBERG18
03-24-06, 04:05 PM
Goldman will be mad.

penfold
03-24-06, 04:13 PM
...Choi has been bad the last few years, and getting another lefty first baseman and one who cant hit lefties or play good defense would be stupid

Thank you. I've seen Choi play quite a bit thanks to, well, geography. At no time has he impressed me. If he connects at the plate, he can occasionally hit monster shots -- but so can most players in the minors. I think the Dodgers brought him in to excite local fans and sell a lot of tickets but he hasn't really worked out on the field. It's too bad because, as we saw in the WBC, the Koreans hav a quite a few players who could do okay in the MLB.

IMHO, he's kinda like the Dodgers version of Hideki Irabu: a "big"-name import who just never lived up to all the hype.

SoCal Pinstriper
03-24-06, 04:23 PM
Thank you. I've seen Choi play quite a bit thanks to, well, geography. At no time has he impressed me. If he connects at the plate, he can occasionally hit monster shots -- but so can most players in the minors. I think the Dodgers brought him in to excite local fans and sell a lot of tickets but he hasn't really worked out on the field. It's too bad because, as we saw in the WBC, the Koreans hav a quite a few players who could do okay in the MLB.

IMHO, he's kinda like the Dodgers version of Hideki Irabu: a "big"-name import who just never lived up to all the hype.I second every word of that. Choi's only chance is to go to a non-contending team that can afford to just stick him in the lineup for 500 PAs and see what happens. He (understandably) is an ineffective PH/Bat off the bench, and is generally a poor fielder. He would be better served by going to the minors where he can play every day.

BobbyWeird
03-24-06, 04:37 PM
The Red Sox signed him.

SoCal Pinstriper
03-24-06, 04:45 PM
Theo obviously knows more than me, but that move smacks of desperation. Better them than us, IMO.

scooterfan
03-24-06, 05:09 PM
All I have to say is - I'll put my trust in Don Mattingly. He thinks Andy Phillips can succeed in the majors. That's enough for me

Choi had only 12 homers last year, and 6 of them came in a 12-game stretch against Minny and KC.

It's a low-risk move for the Red Sox.

It might tell us they're a little worried about Mike Lowell offensively - they may end up playing Youkilis a lot at 3rd.

Fabien Brandy
03-25-06, 07:04 AM
Choi is a product of Baseball Prospectus-syndrome, where they hype up a player due to his walk totals and then blame all future under-achievement on mismanagement (either not playing him or misusing him) by inept managers/GMs.

(See Cust, Jack)

flymick24
03-26-06, 02:23 PM
can't we close this thread now?

noneckwilliams
03-26-06, 02:32 PM
Choi is a product of Baseball Prospectus-syndrome, where they hype up a player due to his walk totals and then blame all future under-achievement on mismanagement (either not playing him or misusing him) by inept managers/GMs.

(See Cust, Jack)

but dude - haven't you seen his pitch per plate appearance numbers?