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View Full Version : Lidge and Biggio Available in Houston...



jcan411
12-07-05, 12:53 PM
I tried starting this discussion in the pettitte thread (but most people are talking about andy) of trying to get biggio as a stop gap for melky or the FA market for CF next year and/or trying to get Lidge as a set-up guy for mariano while being our closer for the future. How great would a Farnsworth-lidge-mariano end of the game be!!! Not sure how expensive these guys wold be, although I think in the long run we would have to give little for biggio and fair market value (ie a lot more) for Lidge.

Quote from John Donovon

Purpura has let it be known that there aren't many untouchables on his roster, though he's certainly hamstrung by some contracts. Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, as 10-year veterans who have five years with the Astros, can't be traded without their consent. Pitcher Andy Pettitte and slugger Lance Berkman have no-trade provisions.

Still, the Astros have to do something because they face a budget crunch. The team is on the hook for some $75 million to $80 million for 12 players -- not counting Clemens.

One player Purpura didn't mention as an untouchable: Closer Brad Lidge. Purpura declined to answer whether any of the closer-needy teams in the league have asked about Lidge. But he did say "[Lidge] would be an obvious choice" among teams interested in talking about trading for a closer ...

Rocketman
12-07-05, 12:56 PM
Biggio should retire as an Astro. He's a first-ballot Hall of Famer and for him to play on any other team is a disgrace to their franchise and to all of baseball, honestly.

He's very old and came back to play second base last year. He was not very good in centerfield. His offense is alright, even still, but his defense in the outfield is not good enough even as a stopgap measure.

Additionally, Brad Lidge would be beyond expensive; there's no way the Yankees could trade for him.

destro
12-07-05, 12:57 PM
we dont need a closer

biggio is old

gdn
12-07-05, 12:57 PM
We would have to give up an awful lot for Lidge. Maybe Farnsworth + cash + prospects.

surge511
12-07-05, 12:57 PM
Although it is very unlikely, we should probably at least inquire about Biggio and especially Lidge. Getting Lidge would make our bullpen absolutely untouchable. The starters could be done by the 5th or 6th innings if they wanted. Just the thought makes me get excited.

ppa79
12-07-05, 12:58 PM
Biggio is too old. Lidge would be a great addition, but the guys they would want like Cano and Wang I wouldn't want to give up.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-07-05, 12:59 PM
We would have to give up an awful lot for Lidge. Maybe Farnsworth + cash + prospects.

You can't trade free agents that you sign until after June 15th. So Farnsworth is out. And you know how that conversation will go:

Cashman: "What would you like for Lidge:
Purpura: "Hughes, Cano, and Wang."
Cashman: "Gee, is the weather this nice all the time in Texas, must be nice to live here year round. See 'ya".

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 12:59 PM
We would have to give up an awful lot for Lidge. Maybe Farnsworth + cash + prospects.
Can't trade Farnsworth.

Yankeeah
12-07-05, 01:00 PM
Agreed with pretty much everyone.

Lidge would be an awesome add, but we have no shot

surge511
12-07-05, 01:00 PM
We would have to give up an awful lot for Lidge. Maybe Farnsworth + cash + prospects.

Well if we had to give up Farnsworth for him, that would essentially defeat the purpose of trading for Lidge. However, this deal would never happen, I doubt an agreement could be worked out.

jcan411
12-07-05, 01:00 PM
We would have to give up an awful lot for Lidge. Maybe Farnsworth + cash + prospects.

He is lights out though

2.26 era
103 SO
.223 BAA

2004
1.90 ERA
157 SO
.174 BAA

That is dominant, and we would not have to worry about when Mariano is gone (or starts to decline) because we would have insurance and the future. He's still only 29 (turns in late december)

gdn
12-07-05, 01:01 PM
Can't trade Farnsworth.Why not?

If not,

then I'd do Henn + Proctor + Corey Stuart.

RhodyYanksFan
12-07-05, 01:02 PM
Although it is very unlikely, we should probably at least inquire about Biggio and especially Lidge. Getting Lidge would make our bullpen absolutely untouchable. The starters could be done by the 5th or 6th innings if they wanted. Just the thought makes me get excited.

What makes you think the closer for the NL Champions would want to become a set-up man? Didn't we just lose this battle with BJ Ryan? You can't force people to come here and change their entire career just because we fans think they should (except that A-Rod guy ;) ).

I agree, a bullpen of Farnsworth, Lidge, Ryan and Rivera would be untouchable, but it'll only happen in EA Sports.

Nobody should get excited about Brad Lidge, the Yankees can't get him. (And yes I hope I eat these words.)

Yankeeah
12-07-05, 01:02 PM
Why not?

If not,

then I'd do Henn + Proctor + Corey Stuart.

Can't trade free agent signees until a designated date.

If we want Lidge, it would start with Cano and Huges. They would laugh at henn and proctor (whos corey stuart)

gdn
12-07-05, 01:03 PM
What makes you think the closer for the NL Champions would want to become a set-up man? Didn't we just lose this battle with BJ Ryan? You can't force people to come here and change their entire career just because we fans think they should (except that A-Rod guy ;) ).

I agree, a bullpen of Farnsworth, Lidge, Ryan and Rivera would be untouchable, but it'll only happen in EA Sports.

Nobody should get excited about Brad Lidge, the Yankees can't get him. (And yes I hope I eat these words.)Ryan was a free agent. Lidge is not and doesn't have a NTC. He has to go wherever the team trades him.

Sam18
12-07-05, 01:03 PM
Why not?
Because this isn't the NBA.

jcan411
12-07-05, 01:03 PM
What makes you think the closer for the NL Champions would want to become a set-up man? Didn't we just lose this battle with BJ Ryan? You can't force people to come here and change their entire career just because we fans think they should (except that A-Rod guy ;) ).

I agree, a bullpen of Farnsworth, Lidge, Ryan and Rivera would be untouchable, but it'll only happen in EA Sports.

Nobody should get excited about Brad Lidge, the Yankees can't get him. (And yes I hope I eat these words.)

I would have said the same thing about AROD. Plus he does not have a no-trade clause so it really doesn't matter if he is happy being a setup guy or not...

gdn
12-07-05, 01:04 PM
Can't trade free agent signees until a designated date.

If we want Lidge, it would start with Cano and Huges. They would laugh at henn and proctor (whos corey stuart)I was only kidding. We don't need Lidge. Would it be great to have him? Umm... Yeah! No way, though.

Corey Stuart is a minor-leaguer in the NYPL who was lights out along with Schmidt in the pen this year.

Kulish29
12-07-05, 01:17 PM
Why not?

If not,

then I'd do Henn + Proctor + Corey Stuart.

You cannot trade FA's you just signed until mid-July I believe.

surge511
12-07-05, 01:20 PM
Why not?

If not,

then I'd do Henn + Proctor + Corey Stuart.

I really hope you are kidding.

Would you trade Mariano for those 3 guys? Or even Farnsworth, for that matter? Even other teams besides the Yankees aren't that stupid.


Sorry: I see you already clarified this as a joke. :D

nyctalopia
12-07-05, 01:25 PM
As a baseball fan, I want Biggio to finish his career in Houston.

jcan411
12-07-05, 01:28 PM
Biggio last year

.264 average
26 homers
.792 OPs
40 doubles

Splits don't look so hot as minute maid is a truely offensive park - but still he would be better than crosby as a one year option - plus a great clubhouse guy. Not sure what his fielding stats in center are or his pricetag but I bet we get him cheap if we wanted him....

NewEraYanks2527
12-07-05, 01:32 PM
Lidge setting up for Mo is not going to happen. Biggio coming to New York is not going to and should not happen. Lidge, a great closer last year, will not come without an extremely high price tag. Now repeat after me WE DO NOT NEED BIG NAMES OR A BIG SPLASH.

Spaceboy88
12-07-05, 01:34 PM
Yankees don't need Lidge, they need middle relievers. I'd rather have Farnsworth as a setup man which comes at less $ and no loss of prospects.

Biggio is too old.

ShaneTravis
12-07-05, 01:35 PM
Forget about Lidge. If teams want Cano and Wang for Pierre,Michaels,Cameron,Hunter....I could only imagine what they would want for Brad.
This should not come as a surprise them wanting to trade him. Look at what the closers are getting $ wise.
The Astros would be stupid to not call around and see what the losers on Farnsworth,Ryan,Wagner...would give up.

Biggio would be a better bet than Crosby. Biggio is also more versatile than Crosby or anyone on our bench last year. And for one year could be an option, taking into account it's a salary dump and Yanks don't give up too much for him.

jcan411
12-07-05, 01:41 PM
Forget about Lidge. If teams want Cano and Wang for Pierre,Michaels,Cameron,Hunter....I could only imagine what they would want for Brad.
This should not come as a surprise them wanting to trade him. Look at what the closers are getting $ wise.
The Astros would be stupid to not call around and see what the losers on Farnsworth,Ryan,Wagner...would give up.

Biggio would be a better bet than Crosby. Biggio is also more versatile than Crosby or anyone on our bench last year. And for one year could be an option, taking into account it's a salary dump and Yanks don't give up too much for him.

Its not just Lidge for this year mind you. Mariano is getting older, we need to have a back-up plan, and the FA market is crazy right now for relievers, and will only get worse. We might be able to steal him ofr wang (who is way overvalued by everyone here - his choulder is mush), and 2 more higher prospects. I bet we could get this done if explored. Again look at the AROD deal. we didn't need him either....

RobbiMan
12-07-05, 01:45 PM
Its not just Lidge for this year mind you. Mariano is getting older, we need to have a back-up plan, and the FA market is crazy right now for relievers, and will only get worse. We might be able to steal him ofr wang (who is way overvalued by everyone here - his choulder is mush), and 2 more higher prospects. I bet we could get this done if explored. Again look at the AROD deal. we didn't need him either....

Wang + Duncan + ??? is not going to get Lidge...it just isn't. Too many other teams have much better packages to offer. The fact that you said, "steal him" for Wang just give more credence to my point. GM's, believe it or not, are more adept at doing their jobs than we are. I think if someone on a fan board realizes that it would be a "steal" to swap Wang + for Lidge, GM's likely recognize this too.

ShaneTravis
12-07-05, 01:52 PM
Its not just Lidge for this year mind you. Mariano is getting older, we need to have a back-up plan, and the FA market is crazy right now for relievers, and will only get worse. We might be able to steal him ofr wang (who is way overvalued by everyone here - his choulder is mush), and 2 more higher prospects. I bet we could get this done if explored. Again look at the AROD deal. we didn't need him either....

I am not saying I would not want him on the team. I am saying if the current trend continues how the heck do the Yanks have enough to get him?

3 very good prospects for Pierre.
50 million for Ryan
40 + million for Wagner.
To get Lidge I would ship Wang and high prospects but I see the price much more than that. Not only prospects but taking another bad contract also.

effdamets
12-07-05, 02:00 PM
You would only acquire these two guys if you were involved in a three way deal. Get 'em and get rid of 'em!

Why would you want a 40 year old converted infielder that is way past his prime. Because he certainly isn't going to play 2nd base for the Yankees. And I happen to love Biggio as a player, but he needed to be a Yankee 15 years ago. And Lidge? There is just no way to keep him on the roster. Again, if the Yankees were going to acquire him to get what they need (Torii Hunter?) then alright, but he would definitely be playing 2nd fiddle to one, Mariano Rivera and that is not something Lidge wants to do at this point in his career

jcan411
12-07-05, 02:01 PM
I am not saying I would not want him on the team. I am saying if the current trend continues how the heck do the Yanks have enough to get him?

3 very good prospects for Pierre.
50 million for Ryan
40 + million for Wagner.
To get Lidge I would ship Wang and high prospects but I see the price much more than that. Not only prospects but taking another bad contract also.

Look I don't know lidges contract but I do not think it is overly outlandish. All I am saying is that it should be explored. why not?!?!? Look at all the teams exploring manny. Most don't have enought to get him, but they are just exploring. Thats what we should do. You never know....

blazennyfan
12-07-05, 02:29 PM
why would a team that went to the world series give up their closer?

if clemens retires they free up money to bring a starter (matt morris) and a hitter

jcan411
12-07-05, 02:54 PM
why would a team that went to the world series give up their closer?

if clemens retires they free up money to bring a starter (matt morris) and a hitter

It seems money. they have a lot of bad contracts and they need to free themselves of some payroll. I agree with the sentiment, but it would seem they are willing given the tone of their GM.

aeromac76
12-07-05, 03:01 PM
Lidge is certainly worth exploring. Unlike a FA, if he comes he sets up, he does not have a choice. May not make him a happy camper though..
But I just don't think we need a name like that, it will cost too much. Cano, Wang and likely Duncan if not more. We have a good endgame now, we need middle relief more than that primary setup man.
I'd rather get a decent 7th inning guy (Braden Looper is my choice).
If your roster of choice was

A)Rivera, Farnsworth, Looper, Sturtze, LOOGY I hope to get, and Wright/Small with Cano and Wang on the team, and all our other prospects in tact or

or

B) The same as above but with Lidge instead of Looper and no Cano/Wang on the ML team and other top prospects gone from the minors,

I would take choice A in a landslide...

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-07-05, 03:03 PM
I'd lose Wang for Lidge...

aeromac76
12-07-05, 03:13 PM
I'd lose Wang for Lidge...

So would I, but the Stros won't..
I mean, the Philles asked for Wang for 4th OF Jason Michaels.
It would take Cano and Wang, and one or two of the best of the farm system. Too much to give up..

BroadwayBomber55
12-07-05, 03:46 PM
Craig Biggio is goin' to retire as an Astro.

Brad Lidge is stayin' in Houston as well.

swityak11
12-07-05, 04:16 PM
Lidge would cost just as much as Dontrelle. Forget it.

Yankees13
12-07-05, 04:36 PM
Do we want to trade the farm for someone who could go Donnie Moore or Mark Wholers on us? Did people not watch the playoffs?

JapanJobbers
12-07-05, 05:11 PM
Do we want to trade the farm for someone who could go Donnie Moore or Mark Wholers on us? Did people not watch the playoffs?

I wouldn't worry about that since Lidge is slightly better than those guys.

Yankees13
12-07-05, 05:30 PM
I wouldn't worry about that since Lidge is slightly better than those guys.
Mark Wholers was very similar to Lidge until the Leyrtiz homer.

JMAN74
12-07-05, 05:37 PM
He is lights out though

2.26 era
103 SO
.223 BAA

2004
1.90 ERA
157 SO
.174 BAA

That is dominant, and we would not have to worry about when Mariano is gone (or starts to decline) because we would have insurance and the future. He's still only 29 (turns in late december)


yet another ? mark guy in the playoffs hmmmmm .....does he perform better in NY but as the 7 or 8th inning guy? The price? Id do it but theyll be a team willing to trade prospects worth an elite closer that may be too much to pay for us esp. with his postseason history.

DandyAndy46
12-07-05, 05:40 PM
Biggio should retire as an Astro. He's a first-ballot Hall of Famer and for him to play on any other team is a disgrace to their franchise and to all of baseball, honestly.

He's very old and came back to play second base last year. He was not very good in centerfield. His offense is alright, even still, but his defense in the outfield is not good enough even as a stopgap measure.

Additionally, Brad Lidge would be beyond expensive; there's no way the Yankees could trade for him.

Agreed

YankeeStripes
12-07-05, 05:40 PM
clemens not available.

ANSKYcm
12-08-05, 01:03 AM
You can't trade free agents that you sign until after June 15th. So Farnsworth is out. And you know how that conversation will go:

Cashman: "What would you like for Lidge:
Purpura: "Hughes, Cano, and Wang."
Cashman: "Gee, is the weather this nice all the time in Texas, must be nice to live here year round. See 'ya".

And then they'll trade Lidge to the Mets for Xavier Nady. That how the offseason has been going so far. :(

Stan Musial
12-08-05, 02:59 AM
With Farns and Mariano..I dont see the need for Lidge. Although, Farns is very suspect as the Yanks will see in '06. Plus, the players + prospects needed to land Lidge would be too great to even contemplate. I'm sure they'd ask for Wang + Cano + top-level prospect. For many teams he'd be worth that, but not the Yankees.

Biggo/Bagwell need to retire as Astros..the city and the team owe it to them as they have been the flag bearers of that organisation for a decade.

conkermaniac
12-08-05, 03:12 AM
Wang + Duncan + ??? is not going to get Lidge...it just isn't. Too many other teams have much better packages to offer. The fact that you said, "steal him" for Wang just give more credence to my point. GM's, believe it or not, are more adept at doing their jobs than we are. I think if someone on a fan board realizes that it would be a "steal" to swap Wang + for Lidge, GM's likely recognize this too.
But apparently some GM's are willing to take Mirabelli for Loretta.

jcan411
12-08-05, 08:32 AM
But apparently some GM's are willing to take Mirabelli for Loretta.

I agree, you never know what is possible unless you look at what you can get. Especially if this is a true salary dump situation. Plus, you know they would want to try to send their guys out of the NL...