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StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 02:30 PM
Suggested trading Cano or Wang for Zito and a prospect.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 02:31 PM
Or Chacon

ppa79
12-06-05, 02:31 PM
Suggested trading Cano or Wang for Zito and a prospect.

So now we would have a hole at 2nd and our payroll would go up because Zito would probably be making around 10M.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 02:33 PM
So now we would have a hole at 2nd and our payroll would go up because Zito would probably be making around 10M.
Could sign Gruzielanek.

YankeeStripes
12-06-05, 02:37 PM
sign nomar for 2nd.

BRNXBMRS
12-06-05, 02:38 PM
Suggested trading Cano or Wang for Zito and a prospect.

I would do Wang for Zito in less than a millisecond. If the Yanks can have some sort of negotiating window so they wouldnt lose him to free agency next year.

38Special
12-06-05, 02:40 PM
WE NEED MORE STARTING PITCHERS DONT WE....
....
.................

errrrr

ReggieBar
12-06-05, 02:43 PM
WE NEED MORE STARTING PITCHERS DONT WE....
....
.................

errrrr


We need better starting pitching. And the two guys at the top are going, going.....

Hitman23
12-06-05, 02:46 PM
WE NEED MORE STARTING PITCHERS DONT WE....
....
.................

errrrrWell we have one collecting social security, a head case, and two major contracts coming off injuries. After Chacon and Wang, I trust nobody in the rotation.

I don't think the question is do we need "more" SP, it's do we need "better" SP. And the answer is yes.

Not for Cano though. No way.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 02:49 PM
Zito vs Boston

BA: .272
OBP: .371
SLG: .506
OPS: .877


Last 3 years:
ERA: 6.75
1 -2
27.2 IP
33 Hits
19 K
17 BB

CTyankeefan
12-06-05, 02:52 PM
I don't care about how he has done verse Boston. You are either a good pitcher or you aren't. Bosotn is a very good hitting team, and they can beat up on any pitcher.

NewEraYanks2527
12-06-05, 02:56 PM
It was only a matter of time before Mike starting harping about this. I'm not really sold on Zito, it seems like a) he is kind of a headcase and would not do well in the New York spotlight and b) he just has not been able to recapture that dominate form that he once had. Other than being left handed, I just do not see him being a good option for the Yanks especially when he might be a free agent next year and the Yankees could sign him them if they REALLY wanted him so badly.

cupcollector99
12-06-05, 03:02 PM
He's not built for NY. He would probably fit better with the "idiots" or a team using him as a draw for fans.

If the Yanks could pick him up as a FA next year with a favorable contract (for NY), then I say give him a shot but he's not worth a Cano or Wang.

Quangormo
12-06-05, 03:07 PM
Well we have one collecting social security, a head case, and two major contracts coming off injuries. After Chacon and Wang, I trust nobody in the rotation.

I don't think the question is do we need "more" SP, it's do we need "better" SP. And the answer is yes.

Not for Cano though. No way.
We give them Womack and pay his salary? We include Henn?

nnysiny
12-06-05, 03:07 PM
Cashman: "hey guys, lets make a trade we really dont need! lets get Zito."
Steinbrenner: "ok!"

Quangormo
12-06-05, 03:09 PM
I LOVE Barry Zito. And his head is fine. (He's a minister's kid, BTW.) The guy would be a great addition to the pitching staff. He's a proven, but still young, southpaw.

What woud you think of Chacon and Henn? Would that be enough or do you think Oakland (in price cutting mode) wants more?

Hitman23
12-06-05, 03:11 PM
We give them Womack and pay his salary? We include Henn?I'm not the GM and I don't throw out wacky trade ideas that wouldn't even be approved on a videogame. I'm only siding on the fact that obtaining Zito would be a good thing if it could happen.

ICEBERG18
12-06-05, 03:11 PM
Suggested trading Cano or Wang for Zito and a prospect.

Why is this a thread? He also thinks Bernie can play CF. :dunno:

ppa79
12-06-05, 03:13 PM
Could sign Gruzielanek.

Our payroll just keeps on increasing.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 03:16 PM
Why is this a thread? He also thinks Bernie can play CF. :dunno:

When did he say that?

homer2931
12-06-05, 03:16 PM
They also said the A's desperatley need a 2B. Despite Mark Ellis's .290 EQA and above average defense.
They also said the mets could do Reyes for Zito (anyobody want to look at Reyes's stats, the Bobby Crosby's, then read Moneyball, then show me the potential problem with the A's doing this).
Or in other words they are morons

ICEBERG18
12-06-05, 03:17 PM
When did he say that?

He always says it.

ICEBERG18
12-06-05, 03:19 PM
They also said the A's desperatley need a 2B. Despite Mark Ellis's .290 EQA and above average defense.
They also said the mets could do Reyes for Zito (anyobody want to look at Reyes's stats, the Bobby Crosby's, then read Moneyball, then show me the potential problem with the A's doing this).
Or in other words they are morons

Like i said, Why does this deserve a thread? :D

BJG
12-06-05, 03:19 PM
They also said the A's desperatley need a 2B. Despite Mark Ellis's .290 EQA and above average defense.
They also said the mets could do Reyes for Zito (anyobody want to look at Reyes's stats, the Bobby Crosby's, then read Moneyball, then show me the potential problem with the A's doing this).
Or in other words they are morons

Indeed, the A's may move Zito, but they are going to do so for offense at positions of need. Look at what they did last year for Hudson and Mulder, and just make the centerpiece the position player verision of Haren.

Wade_Taylor
12-06-05, 03:19 PM
I would imagine that Beane will ask for something in the middle of what he got for Mulder, which was great, and what he got for Hudson, which turned out to be not so great although it may have turned out better had Dan Meyer not gotten hurt. I wouldn't think they would take Cano, just becuase Ellis was roughly just as productive, but Cano is 22 and would be under their control for another 5 years. Regardless they are probably also going to want Hughes and/or Duncan. In fact I could imagine Oakland asking for something like Cano, Wang, Hughes and Duncan for Ellis and Zito because I do recall that the A's wanted one of Ducan or Hughes for Kotsay. I like Zito and think he would be fine here, especially if he was slotted in the #2 or #3 spot and he would be worth Wang and Cano, but I doubt thats all it will take and I do not think he is worth giving up Duncan and/or Hughes

gdn
12-06-05, 03:23 PM
Yeah, the cost is going to be too much. I'll pass.

Wade_Taylor
12-06-05, 03:23 PM
They also said the A's desperatley need a 2B. Despite Mark Ellis's .290 EQA and above average defense.
They also said the mets could do Reyes for Zito (anyobody want to look at Reyes's stats, the Bobby Crosby's, then read Moneyball, then show me the potential problem with the A's doing this).
Or in other words they are morons

Forget EQA. Ellis had the 3rd highest OPS among second basemen, hopefully someone will call them up and point out these stats to them.

nydeano
12-06-05, 03:26 PM
Why not field 9 pitchers? we can put Mo in CF! That way, if one sucks, we'll just move them around! ARod can DH, too.

What a plan, Gammo, Olney, M&MD will be all over it.

Quangormo
12-06-05, 03:26 PM
Maybe Duncan, Henn, Pavano (and cash) or Chacon. No higher. And we don't need Ellis.

RJ, Moose, and Barry -- the NEW Big Three.

Yankees1962
12-06-05, 03:27 PM
I'm not trying to be a smarta** but at times, I don't think some of you understand the reality of the situation. The Yankees are not going to make any trades that add money to their payroll, unless it strengthens the team's weaknesses.

Captain Yankee
12-06-05, 03:29 PM
I would consider doing Zito for Cano or Wang. I would not want to have to give up Duncan or Hughes however. Zito is a proven AL pitcher that has been successful. He also is a quality lefty who isn't nearing retirement. If Josh Beckett was a good deal for Boston (who has yet to live up to the hype of the 2003 WS) how can getting Zito (a Cy Young Award Winner) not be a good deal for the Yankees (provided the price is right). Its not often that young starting pitchers come onto the market. Teams have locked up players like Johan Santana and Ben Sheets to long term deals before they hit the FA market because of revenue sharing. When a quality starter is available---the Yankees should at least be in the discussion.

BJG
12-06-05, 03:33 PM
I would imagine that Beane will ask for something in the middle of what he got for Mulder, which was great, and what he got for Hudson, which turned out to be not so great although it may have turned out better had Dan Meyer not gotten hurt. I wouldn't think they would take Cano, just becuase Ellis was roughly just as productive, but Cano is 22 and would be under their control for another 5 years. Regardless they are probably also going to want Hughes and/or Duncan. In fact I could imagine Oakland asking for something like Cano, Wang, Hughes and Duncan for Ellis and Zito because I do recall that the A's wanted one of Ducan or Hughes for Kotsay. I like Zito and think he would be fine here, especially if he was slotted in the #2 or #3 spot and he would be worth Wang and Cano, but I doubt thats all it will take and I do not think he is worth giving up Duncan and/or Hughes

Are Cano and Ellis really roughly the same? You're talking about a 102 OPS+ guy and a 125 OPS+ guy.

Sure, the A's get more years out of Cano, but they need to upgrade the offense now. Even if they were the same, being roughly the same isn't good enough to make this move. Wang is also more of the same for them, and he doesn't address their biggest issue, scoring runs. The A's will make this move for a bat that improves them at a low cost, not for a bat that hurts them at a low cost.

Quangormo
12-06-05, 04:03 PM
BTW, Wade_Taylor, I love your screen name. One of my favorites, ever since I saw him in A ball. Too bad he blew the arm out; Wade-o could have been a good pitcher.

Wang's Groundballs
12-06-05, 04:23 PM
Are Cano and Ellis really roughly the same? You're talking about a 102 OPS+ guy and a 125 OPS+ guy.

Not to mention the best defensive 2B in the AL and a guy who has pretty good range, but is only average at best right now.

nyyanksfan20
12-06-05, 04:34 PM
I wouldn't trade Cano, but if we did I'd love to get the O-Dog from the Jays.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-06-05, 04:40 PM
Francesa says he wouldn't want to trade Cano. Maybe Chacon.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-06-05, 04:47 PM
This really shouldn't be an issue unless Sweeny Murti reports this news.

jimmykey2
12-06-05, 04:53 PM
Not to mention the best defensive 2B in the AL and a guy who has pretty good range, but is only average at best right now.


Let's make some sense here people. Are you really comparing a 28 year old player coming off a career season (vastly superior to anything he'd done before) and a 22 year old coming off his first taste of the majors? Why don't you look at what Ellis did in his first full season in the bigs? Cano put those numbers to shame. While Ellis at times was the A's best player last season, a 22 year old rookie with Robby's numbers deserves a bit more repect than you're giving him.

BJG
12-06-05, 04:56 PM
Let's make some sense here people. Are you really comparing a 28 year old player coming off a career season (vastly superior to anything he'd done before) and a 22 year old coming off his first taste of the majors? Why don't you look at what Ellis did in his first full season in the bigs? Cano put those numbers to shame. While Ellis at times was the A's best player last season, a 22 year old rookie with Robby's numbers deserves a bit more repect than you're giving him.

No, what we're trying to say is that the A's goal in trading Zito is to make the biggest impact on their offense right now that they can at the lowest amount of dollars. Cano might be better than Ellis next year. He might not. I don't think the A's are trading Zito for maybe.

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-06-05, 05:02 PM
**** Zito lets sign Nomar to pitch, sign Furcal to play second, trade Cano for rollins who would play center. Trade Sheff for Michael Young and a top short stop prospect(who we would later convert to pitcher), Trade Duncan and Henn for Peralta who would play first. Hughes for Carlos Guillen who would play right. Sign Alex Gonzalez to play left. Sign the other Gonzalez that is a short stop to catch. Eat Hideki Matsuis salary and trade him for Hanley Ramirez who would pitch. Call up CJ Henry and Marcos Vechianocci to also pitch. Trade for Bobby Crosby to be the number 5 man, get Cora to DH. Trade for Berroa, izturis, Lugo, Uribe and bring up escalona all for the pen. Then the roster would be:

c:Gonzalez
1b:Peralta
2b:Furcal
3b:Arod
ss:Jeter
LF:Gonzalez
CF:Rollins
RF:guillen
DH:Cora

SP:Nomar
SP:Ramirez
SP:Henry
SP:Vechionacci
SP:Crosby

Pen:Berroa, izturis, Lugo, Uribe escalona


And my dream of the all short stop team would be complete

jimmykey2
12-06-05, 05:05 PM
No, what we're trying to say is that the A's goal in trading Zito is to make the biggest impact on their offense right now that they can at the lowest amount of dollars. Cano might be better than Ellis next year. He might not. I don't think the A's are trading Zito for maybe.


When you look at the drastic jump Ellis' numbers took, you might think that was a fluke. Cano showed real ability at the age of 22 and that makes one think he can improve from there.


Regardless, IMO, Beane isn't trading Zito to the Yanks under any circumstances.

JfromJersey
12-06-05, 05:08 PM
Mike F talks about Zito like he's still the Cy Young Zito, and he's not. My gut tells me he would not handle Yankee pressure well. I could be wrong, but everyone so willing to trade young guys (Cano, Wang, Chacon) who are inexpensive and have performed well as Yankees, for an expensive option like Zito, should think twice.

Wang's Groundballs
12-06-05, 05:12 PM
When you look at the drastic jump Ellis' numbers took, you might think that was a fluke. Cano showed real ability at the age of 22 and that makes one think he can improve from there.


Regardless, IMO, Beane isn't trading Zito to the Yanks under any circumstances.

I think Cano will become a very good 2B, but with his lack of plate discipline he's simply not what the A's are looking to acquire for Zito.

Assuming the Cubs end up saying no to the Prior/Abreu deal, I could definitely see Zito ending up there. I wouldn't be suprised to see Gomes there either, although, I'd think they would want more than just him.

Yankees13
12-06-05, 05:12 PM
Zito vs Boston

BA: .272
OBP: .371
SLG: .506
OPS: .877


Last 3 years:
ERA: 6.75
1 -2
27.2 IP
33 Hits
19 K
17 BB
Zito has frequently been shelled by the American League elite. That lollypop curve apparently doesn't work against good hitting teams.

Bueller
12-06-05, 05:31 PM
Reality Check: Don't trade Cano.

I don't think many of you realize the value of this kid. He was one of the American League leaders in road average and should probably have been hitting in the 2 hole for most of the year. He has speed and is developing at the plate so quickly.

He his 34 doubles and 14 Home Runs last year in a shortened season. He has the potential to get stronger and hit 30 Home Runs a year. I'm really not big on overstating our system and prospects but hes the real deal. If you think trading him away is going to make our team better you're all sorely wrong. I hate to break it to you, and it makes me so upset that any person on this board even entertain the thought of trading him. He was on fire in September and could be credited with pushing the Yankees to the division crown with his play.

Additionally, do any of you remember all of the references of him to Rod Carew? I do.

homer2931
12-06-05, 08:09 PM
Let's make some sense here people. Are you really comparing a 28 year old player coming off a career season (vastly superior to anything he'd done before) and a 22 year old coming off his first taste of the majors? Why don't you look at what Ellis did in his first full season in the bigs? Cano put those numbers to shame. While Ellis at times was the A's best player last season, a 22 year old rookie with Robby's numbers deserves a bit more repect than you're giving him.

Go look at Cano's minor league numbers, that was a career year for him too. cano also has a .320 OBP that I'm sure Billy Beane isnt excited about trading for.

Crosby18
12-06-05, 08:13 PM
As much as I would love seeing Zito in a Yankee Jersey holding up the Cy Young Trophy. It just doesn't seem like its realistic. I don't know about anyone else but I can not picture Zito with his long hair playing even wearing Pinstripes.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-06-05, 08:54 PM
As much as I would love seeing Zito in a Yankee Jersey holding up the Cy Young Trophy. It just doesn't seem like its realistic. I don't know about anyone else but I can not picture Zito with his long hair playing even wearing Pinstripes.

He would have to cut his hair. Plus, the A's fan would destroy Billy Beane for even making a trade with the Yankees.

JMAN74
12-07-05, 05:33 PM
Anybody got his post season splits...Id love to see his playoff capabilities.

ryanthe13th
12-07-05, 05:50 PM
Zito in the post-season:

3-2
2.76 ERA
32.7 IP
32 K/11 BB

JMAN74
12-07-05, 06:32 PM
Zito in the post-season:

3-2
2.76 ERA
32.7 IP
32 K/11 BB


thanx ryan, not bad #s at all. What site did you get that from? Id like to see the full breakdown if possible...ie home away opponent etc.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-07-05, 09:23 PM
He pitched that great game 3 in the alds. Posada's HR barely got over the wall.

WrightIsWrong
12-07-05, 09:38 PM
Man, the way Francesa talks about Zito you would think he was Sandy Koufax.Does he remember Zito in 2004?This guy was getting smacked like a red-headed step child(no offense to red headed posters);I know 'cause he was on my fantasy team:scared:
Last year he was so so.I do agree that w/ Burnett's contract,Zito will probably be worth $13M a year & not a lot of teams can give talent for a 1 year player plus pay this type of contract,so maybe the Yanks have a chance here.It'll be interesting to see if Oakland holds on to him until July 31st or trades him before the season starts & what kind of deal the A's can get given all the above factors.