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38Special
12-20-05, 10:33 AM
a 24 year old who struggled with commanding his stuff the first two years, moved to the bullpen and annihilated all the competition. He then put up one of the best performances of the Arizona Fall League against the best hitting competition in the minor leagues. Mid 90s fastball, plus slider, and good command. Pitchers are allowed to improve, and it's not like he was 26.

Then again I think you were complaining about him a month ago and i wrote the same post so maybe its not worth it :uhh:

DJ27
12-20-05, 10:36 AM
I like this move, I hope Cashman can close the deal for Doc Ock.

You have to think though that this signing would mean one of our relievers (most likely Sturtze) is going to be traded.

Signing Dotel means we have 14 pitchers on the roster (RJ, Mussina, Chacon, Wang, Pavano, Wright, Small, Sturtze, Myers, Villone, Farnsworth, Dotel, Mo, & Proctor). There has to be a move on the horizon. Hopefully we can package a couple of these guys for an OF or two and deal one away for a prospect. It would seem Seattle, Texas, and Philly are the most likely matches after the hot stove reports in the last couple months.

MTYankee23
12-20-05, 10:37 AM
Even in the worst case, if Dotel takes a 1 year deal and lights it up. We offer him arbitration, and get a 1st and a supp. if we can't resign him. Better than a 3 year Quantrill or Karsay deal where by the end, no one wants them and we're DFA'ing big contracts.

harkode2002
12-20-05, 10:47 AM
EXCELLENT point concerning the potential picks we could get for Dotel. If we can get the guy for $2.0 mil and he gives us a decent year in relief, if he did leave after one year and we got a 1st and supp pick, that would be the best $2.0 mil we ever spent.

Simply a no lose proposition.

MTYankee23
12-20-05, 10:51 AM
EXCELLENT point concerning the potential picks we could get for Dotel. If we can get the guy for $2.0 mil and he gives us a decent year in relief, if he did leave after one year and we got a 1st and supp pick, that would be the best $2.0 mil we ever spent.

Simply a no lose proposition.

I think he gets more than 2.0, but he was the most desirable FA reliever in my opinion for just that reason. I personally think Villone will get dealt again in July if Beam, Smith, and/or Cox show signs of being ready.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-20-05, 10:54 AM
From MLBtraderumors.com, somewhat reliable, but take it for what it's worth.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2005/12/dotel_prefers_y.html

My insurance agent says the Yanks are trying to obtain Pujols

Mark19
12-20-05, 11:06 AM
This looks somewhat promising:

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1284547&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy


Brian Cashman has focused squarely on his bullpen this winter, and the Yankees' general manager appears ready to make yet another move in that area. The Yankees are making a big push to sign right-hander Octavio Dotel, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery.

BJG
12-20-05, 11:09 AM
Even in the worst case, if Dotel takes a 1 year deal and lights it up. We offer him arbitration, and get a 1st and a supp. if we can't resign him. Better than a 3 year Quantrill or Karsay deal where by the end, no one wants them and we're DFA'ing big contracts.

The Elias rankings are based on the last 2 seasons. Given that Dotel basically didn't pitch at all last year, it doesn't seem likely that he is going to be a Type A.

BJG
12-20-05, 11:10 AM
a 24 year old who struggled with commanding his stuff the first two years, moved to the bullpen and annihilated all the competition. He then put up one of the best performances of the Arizona Fall League against the best hitting competition in the minor leagues. Mid 90s fastball, plus slider, and good command. Pitchers are allowed to improve, and it's not like he was 26.

Then again I think you were complaining about him a month ago and i wrote the same post so maybe its not worth it :uhh:

Yes, but your point does nothing to address the issue. Guys his age should annihilate the competition at that level as a reliever. It's nothing special and certainly isn't enough for me to pencil him into a bullpen role this year.

BomberBrian
12-20-05, 11:13 AM
Yes, but your point does nothing to address the issue. Guys his age should annihilate the competition at that level. It's nothing special and certainly isn't enough for me to pencil him into a bullpen role this year.

What about his run in the AFL?

I agree his body of work to date isn't enough to consider him for he pen in 2006, but i am definitely interested in seeing if he builds on his success in the AFL this season in AA and AAA with an eye towards 2007 for him to be in the Bronx.

38Special
12-20-05, 11:16 AM
Yes, but your point does nothing to address the issue. Guys his age should annihilate the competition at that level as a reliever. It's nothing special and certainly isn't enough for me to pencil him into a bullpen role this year.
Who said anything about penciling him in to a role for 06? More likely he gets a september callup and is in the pen for 07

BJG
12-20-05, 11:22 AM
What about his run in the AFL?

I agree his body of work to date isn't enough to consider him for he pen in 2006, but i am definitely interested in seeing if he builds on his success in the AFL this season in AA and AAA with an eye towards 2007 for him to be in the Bronx.

For 17 innings? Look, all relievers are converted/failed starters at some point. With the exception of the college closers who jump almost immediately to the majors, a guy who has to be converted in A ball is a huge red flag. That's very early in the process, especially when the guy is older like Beam.

38Special
12-20-05, 11:58 AM
For 17 innings? Look, all relievers are converted/failed starters at some point. With the exception of the college closers who jump almost immediately to the majors, a guy who has to be converted in A ball is a huge red flag. That's very early in the process, especially when the guy is older like Beam.
He was converted to relief because of all the starters we had in A ball.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 12:26 PM
He was converted to relief because of all the starters we had in A ball.

Regarding Beam, yeah he's old for a guy who spent most of the season as a low A reliever. But he was about as dominant as you could reasonably expect someone to be. K/9 of 11.77, K/BB of 4.33. His overall minor league numbers this year, in 94 2/3ip, were 11.88 k/9, 2.57 bb/9, 4.63 k/bb, 0.48 hr/9, 1.90 ERA, with 75 hits allowed. (something like a .210 baa) Now, I don't agree that you should expect an older reliever to dominate low A just because he's older. You should expect him to succeed. Beam was dominant. I'm not saying he's a stud, but he has a major league future.

destro
12-20-05, 12:28 PM
whatever we do, just dont let joe talk to him on the phone, that hasnt worked at all this season

BJG
12-20-05, 12:28 PM
He was converted to relief because of all the starters we had in A ball.

He was converted because they didn't think he could start. You don't convert a guy to the bullpen and throw away his upside/trade value unless you don't think that upside is there. This is especially true given Beam's age and the fact that he started the season repeating A-. It's the same reason that there aren't usually a lot of good 2B prospects...they are all still at SS even if everyone knows that they will eventually move.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 12:28 PM
I'd have Rivera call him.

BJG
12-20-05, 12:30 PM
Regarding Beam, yeah he's old for a guy who spent most of the season as a low A reliever. But he was about as dominant as you could reasonably expect someone to be. K/9 of 11.77, K/BB of 4.33. His overall minor league numbers this year, in 94 2/3ip, were 11.88 k/9, 2.57 bb/9, 4.63 k/bb, 0.48 hr/9, 1.90 ERA, with 75 hits allowed. (something like a .210 baa) Now, I don't agree that you should expect an older reliever to dominate low A just because he's older. You should expect him to succeed. Beam was dominant. I'm not saying he's a stud, but he has a major league future.

I do expect a 24 year old who only has to pitch an inning at a time to dominate in low A. If they can't, then it's time to get out of baseball.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-20-05, 12:34 PM
If they sign dotel, I wish him good luck. I still think its risky to sign him.

Steph19
12-20-05, 12:55 PM
I do expect a 24 year old who only has to pitch an inning at a time to dominate in low A. If they can't, then it's time to get out of baseball.

Beam realistically wasn't on anyone's radar until a few months ago. Most people thought along the same lines as you until the Yankees decided to send him to the AFL. Most people, at the time, basically just said "Duncan, Smith and a few throw-aways are going to Arizona" but it's where Beam really made a name for himself. He pitched against the best AA/AAA hitting talent and had a 1.53 ERA, 20/2 K/BB and only 16 hits in 17.2 IP. If he did that without dominating low A, I'd say it was a fluke but maybe it's not. Especially when other guys like Matt Smith struggled in the AFL to the tune of a 12.86 ERA and even Jered Weaver with a 5.47 ERA.

Beam will start at AA next year and if he sucks, then fine, you were right. But right now, he is still quite a legitimate middle relief prospect. If he pitches as well as he did last year in AA, he could very well be on the Yankees by next year.

38Special
12-20-05, 01:07 PM
I do expect a 24 year old who only has to pitch an inning at a time to dominate in low A. If they can't, then it's time to get out of baseball.
Let it go man. :lol:

The FUTURE
12-20-05, 01:16 PM
Couple Questions??

How did this thread about Dotel turn into a thread about beam?;)

If we sign Dotel, Do we sign a descent veteran RP to a one year deal to hold his spot until he is ready to go, or do we give his spot to a young guy??

DJ27
12-20-05, 01:20 PM
Couple Questions??

How did this thread about Dotel turn into a thread about beam?;)

If we sign Dotel, Do we sign a descent veteran RP to a one year deal to hold his spot until he is ready to go, or do we give his spot to a young guy??

Young guy.... Proctor is still around too.

Spiker101
12-20-05, 01:25 PM
Couple Questions??

How did this thread about Dotel turn into a thread about beam?;)

If we sign Dotel, Do we sign a descent veteran RP to a one year deal to hold his spot until he is ready to go, or do we give his spot to a young guy??

I know this is going to sound strange, but I think that might depend on whether the Yanks get Damon. If they do, Cash has got to feel that, if Dotel is on board, the bullpen is good enough. Without Damon, I would think Cash might want to sign Tavarez or someone who wasn't tendered today, to provide a surplus in the pen that come spring training he can use as chips to trade for a CFer. Just a theory.

The FUTURE
12-20-05, 01:37 PM
Young guy.... Proctor is still around too.


Yeah I forgot about that Proctor kid, hes the next Mo :P





Just to let you in on something, Proctor is just an inning eater, besides i think he will be dealt to another team before Spring Training starts

BJG
12-20-05, 01:39 PM
I know this is going to sound strange, but I think that might depend on whether the Yanks get Damon. If they do, Cash has got to feel that, if Dotel is on board, the bullpen is good enough. Without Damon, I would think Cash might want to sign Tavarez or someone who wasn't tendered today, to provide a surplus in the pen that come spring training he can use as chips to trade for a CFer. Just a theory.

I doubt that's the case. Any free agent is going to look for a spot to play. With non-tenders, you aren't talking about guys who are going to be any higher on the depth chart than, say, Sturtze. If they sign with the Yankees, it may well be them who is released in ST and scrambling for a job. It's a situation where they know someone is going to be shipped out, and there are no gaurentees it isn't them. If they sign with a team that has an obvious hole, they don't have to worry about that.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 01:40 PM
Yeah I forgot about that Proctor kid, hes the next Mo :P

Good one. Except nobody said that.


Just to let you in on something, Proctor is just an inning eater, besides i think he will be dealt to another team before Spring Training starts

Insightful analysis. He's good enough to be a placeholder for Dotel.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 01:46 PM
If we sign Dotel, Do we sign a descent veteran RP to a one year deal to hold his spot until he is ready to go, or do we give his spot to a young guy??
If we sign Dotel, and we don't trade another pitcher, our rotation becomes:
RJ, Moose, Wang, Chacon, Pavano, Wright, Small, Mo, Farnsworth, Dotel, Myers, Sturtze, and Villone. 13 pitchers overall. That's two too many so one should be traded making it 12 pitchers overall. Dotel won't be ready until late April at earliest so whenever Dotel is ready, he moves in and the worst pitcher would move out. Or, there will most likely be a guy on the DL and Dotel will just take his spot. Plus, if there are a couple injuries, Proctor is ready. Pretty much, if we sign Dotel, there will be no more pitchers signed.

scooterfan
12-20-05, 01:50 PM
Just to let you in on something, Proctor is just an inning eater, besides i think he will be dealt to another team before Spring Training starts

Is Proctor out of options?

After his decent start against Texas last year, I'd like to see the guy stretched out at Columbus and become a starter. For whatever reason, he pitches when he's starting - and has pretty good command. When he relieves, he seems to just throw

Tifoso
12-20-05, 02:03 PM
If we sign Dotel, and we don't trade another pitcher, our rotation becomes:
RJ, Moose, Wang, Chacon, Pavano, Wright, Small, Mo, Farnsworth, Dotel, Myers, Sturtze, and Villone. 13 pitchers overall. That's two too many so one should be traded making it 12 pitchers overall. Dotel won't be ready until late April at earliest so whenever Dotel is ready, he moves in and the worst pitcher would move out. Or, there will most likely be a guy on the DL and Dotel will just take his spot. Plus, if there are a couple injuries, Proctor is ready. Pretty much, if we sign Dotel, there will be no more pitchers signed.

Who do we trade, do you think, amico mio?

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 02:10 PM
Who do we trade, do you think, amico mio?
My guess would be either Sturtze + Henn or Pavano + cash for a CFer.

Tifoso
12-20-05, 02:14 PM
My guess would be either Sturtze + Henn or Pavano + cash for a CFer.


Hopefully the 1st.

What if we already have a CFer? (Damon)

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 02:29 PM
Hopefully the 1st.

What if we already have a CFer? (Damon)
Then I think that we will keep all our pitchers until ST and either trade on then or see if we have any injuries.

JDPNYY
12-20-05, 02:45 PM
Sign Dotel today.

Trade Sturtze (and) for Michaels today. Tell Michaels he can't play in the WBC.

Sign Choi today. Tell Choi he can't play in the WBC.

Done.

Happy Holidays.

On to 27....

DJ27
12-20-05, 02:46 PM
Hopefully the 1st.

What if we already have a CFer? (Damon)

Get a RF and let Sheff DH!

dabomb2045
12-20-05, 02:54 PM
come on Dotel...make up your mind. And make the right decision...you dont wanna go to Cleveland. I mean who actually wants to live in Cleveland?

C-BUS CLIPPER
12-20-05, 03:52 PM
So what doesnt make sense to me is, if this was just "Waiting on George's ok" , what is taking so long???

ryanthe13th
12-20-05, 03:57 PM
I hope that Dotel isn't rushing himself back. Some reports I read about him earlier said he would be ready by summer, and now he will be ready in April? I'm all for signing Dotel, but I want him to be 90-100% when he is pitching for us.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 03:59 PM
I hope that Dotel isn't rushing himself back. Some reports I read about him earlier said he would be ready by summer, and now he will be ready in April? I'm all for signing Dotel, but I want him to be 90-100% when he is pitching for us.

He's going to pitch when doctors clear him to. There is no point for a bunch of people with no medical backround with no real knowledge of this situation to speculate about the medical condition of a baseball player we haven't examined.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-20-05, 04:00 PM
So what doesnt make sense to me is, if this was just "Waiting on George's ok" , what is taking so long???

I really really really hope the hold up from George isn't that he's working on signing Damon and that precluded his attention to Dotel.

MTYankee23
12-20-05, 04:05 PM
I really really really hope the hold up from George isn't that he's working on signing Damon and that precluded his attention to Dotel.

That's what I'm afraid of.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 04:12 PM
I really really really hope the hold up from George isn't that he's working on signing Damon and that precluded his attention to Dotel.
I would certainly hope not...

Yankees1962
12-20-05, 04:13 PM
I hope that Dotel isn't rushing himself back. Some reports I read about him earlier said he would be ready by summer, and now he will be ready in April? I'm all for signing Dotel, but I want him to be 90-100% when he is pitching for us.
Today, I heard on XM Radio's Home Plate a guy from Baseball Prospectus that Dotel's elbow ligament wasn't completely gone or detached so his surgery by Dr. Andrews wasn't as extensive as it was for a guy like Ryan Dempster or Scott Williamson. I can't remember the Prospectus guy's name, but he follows the progress of MLB players coming back from rehab and think Dotel might be ready as early as April/May.

Michaels07
12-20-05, 04:18 PM
What about Dotel? Thoughts?

Just do it and end this constant speculation.

ICEBERG18
12-20-05, 04:32 PM
I can't remember the Prospectus guy's name, but he follows the progress of MLB players coming back from rehab and think Dotel might be ready as early as April/May.

Will Carroll?

Kulish29
12-20-05, 04:34 PM
Just do it and end this constant speculation.

MLB should copyright this and use it as the official slogan for the offseason.

flymick24
12-20-05, 04:36 PM
something will get done by tonight... as well as a flurry of other moves

Jax44
12-20-05, 04:37 PM
Per Fox Sports we signed Dotel

Yankees1962
12-20-05, 04:37 PM
Will Carroll?
It might be him, but I'm not sure. The guy talked about Dotel possibly signing with the Yankees or Mets and a little bit about the Beckett trade.

Jax44
12-20-05, 04:37 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5182962

sorry here is the link

Jace
12-20-05, 04:38 PM
Per Fox Sports we signed Dotel

Fox Sports Baby! Yeah Ken!

premct
12-20-05, 04:38 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5182962

"Free-agent reliever Octavio Dotel has signed with the Yankees, FOXSports.com has learned.

In 15 games with the A's in 2005, Dotel saved seven games and held opposing hitters to a .185 batting average."

Sam18
12-20-05, 04:38 PM
YES!! Cashman strikes again!

Mark19
12-20-05, 04:39 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5182962

"Free-agent reliever Octavio Dotel has signed with the Yankees, FOXSports.com has learned.

In 15 games with the A's in 2005, Dotel saved seven games and held opposing hitters to a .185 batting average."


Yessss!

our bullpen is going to be muy bueno

Jace
12-20-05, 04:39 PM
Somebody make the Inside the Lines thread! This is awesome

JDPNYY
12-20-05, 04:39 PM
Sign Dotel today.

Trade Sturtze (and) for Michaels today. Tell Michaels he can't play in the WBC.

Sign Choi today. Tell Choi he can't play in the WBC.

Done.

Happy Holidays.

On to 27....

One down

flymick24
12-20-05, 04:40 PM
fina-f***ing-lly

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-20-05, 04:40 PM
Great news...this is shaping up to be a downright scary bullpen. Which has been the norm around here for years, but this time in a good way.

tdel23
12-20-05, 04:43 PM
good move by the Yanks

Kulish29
12-20-05, 04:46 PM
Sa-weetness.

Way to go Cashman.

Yankees13
12-20-05, 04:46 PM
Excellent move, he was the best setup man in baseball before he closed, this could be the steal of the year.

In Mo I Trust
12-20-05, 04:56 PM
Great move, pen is much improved.

JeffWeaverFan
12-20-05, 05:02 PM
Fantastic!!!!! If Dotel is healthy next year, our pen is top notch!

climbingspaz
12-20-05, 05:03 PM
haven't seen any indication dotel signed, but espn's jerry crasnick reports it is close:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2266553

Tifoso
12-20-05, 05:07 PM
Fantastic!!!!! If Dotel is healthy next year, our pen is top notch!


Maybe the best pen on Joe's watch. :)

destro
12-20-05, 05:07 PM
this is such a good move, i hope the guy fully recovers and throws smoke

27IsNext
12-20-05, 05:11 PM
Awesome. Now if the rumors about Damon being offered five years by us are proven false, this will be a great day. :)

Tifoso
12-20-05, 05:14 PM
Awesome. Now if the rumors about Damon being offered five years by us are proven false, this will be a great day. :)

Because they offered him 4, and we landed him anyway. :)

27IsNext
12-20-05, 05:23 PM
Because they offered him 4, and we landed him anyway. :)

I should just quit.

AMYanks
12-20-05, 05:45 PM
Cashman strikes. Woohoo!

RhodeyYankee2638
12-20-05, 05:47 PM
Because they offered him 4, and we landed him anyway. :)

What, where did you hear this?

Spiker101
12-20-05, 05:50 PM
I like signing Dotel, but I don't like the fact it's just for one year. And I don't understand why he would do. There's nothing now to stop Torre from running him into the ground, not that the longterm health of a reliever has ever been a major concern with Torre.

I Love Wang
12-20-05, 05:54 PM
What, where did you hear this?

He didn't. He just doesn't recognize how mediocre Damon is.

dabomb2045
12-20-05, 05:55 PM
I like signing Dotel, but I don't like the fact it's just for one year. And I don't understand why he would do. There's nothing now to stop Torre from running him into the ground, not that the longterm health of a reliever has ever been a major concern with Torre.


its simple to see why he wanted 1 year. He signs here...if he has a great season...he hits FA again and he lands a big-money deal to setup or close somewhere else.

Spiker101
12-20-05, 05:59 PM
its simple to see why he wanted 1 year. He signs here...if he has a great season...he hits FA again and he lands a big-money deal to setup or close somewhere else.

I get that. What I don't get is why he's so confident that'll he be able to show enough in the half season he's expected to pitch that he'll be able to land that big deal. It would seem the safe play would be for him to sign for a second year with $3 million or so guaranteed and a whole bunch of incentives.

voodoo69
12-20-05, 06:34 PM
Will we be able to offer arb to Dotel?

Even if he doesn't pitch well, if he accepted arb in 2007 he would only cost 3 mil or so.

If he does well, the most he makes in 2006 is 5.25 mil, so in 2007 i'd imagine tops would be 7 mil, so I would still offer arb. He'd likely decline and that is turned into 2 draft picks.

I see no downside in this move.

BJG
12-20-05, 06:57 PM
After missing almost all of last year and likely up to half of this year, I don't see how he ends up a Type A free agent.

sprintnet
12-20-05, 07:15 PM
I like signing Dotel, but I don't like the fact it's just for one year. And I don't understand why he would do. There's nothing now to stop Torre from running him into the ground, not that the longterm health of a reliever has ever been a major concern with Torre.

that is if he even pitchs at all.

Seems the only guys the yankees want to sign are sure busts.Guys that just came off injury and can't pitch till mid season.

I guess these are the only guys who want to sign with the yankees anymore

Jasbro
12-20-05, 07:28 PM
that is if he even pitchs at all.

Seems the only guys the yankees want to sign are sure busts.Guys that just came off injury and can't pitch till mid season.

I guess these are the only guys who want to sign with the yankees anymore

Many reports acknowledge that he may be ready as early as June.

There is nothing wrong with a potential mid-season boost to our bullpen for hardly any money at all. Minimal risk, huge potential upside.

noneckwilliams
12-20-05, 07:29 PM
that is if he even pitchs at all.

Seems the only guys the yankees want to sign are sure busts.Guys that just came off injury and can't pitch till mid season.

I guess these are the only guys who want to sign with the yankees anymore


all you ever do is bitch - lighten up.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-20-05, 07:35 PM
that is if he even pitchs at all.

Seems the only guys the yankees want to sign are sure busts.Guys that just came off injury and can't pitch till mid season.

I guess these are the only guys who want to sign with the yankees anymore

You mean high reward, injury prone guys....like Nomar?

Sam18
12-20-05, 07:43 PM
Aww the troll is gone.

StatenIslandYankee
12-20-05, 07:49 PM
When will Dotel be available?

Sam18
12-20-05, 07:53 PM
When will Dotel be available?

Apperantly doctor Andrews says if we're lucky he'll be ready by opening day.

ring403
12-20-05, 08:12 PM
Since the Dotel signing is now official, let's please continue the discussion here: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91939