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Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-01-05, 09:36 AM
"Meanwhile, Carl Pavano, whose 2005 season was ruined by shoulder weakness, recently received a clean bill of health by Dr. James Andrews."

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4Mjg3MzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

While those of us on this forum debate whether or not the Yankees should trade Pavano, this little note from the Bergen record came as a bit of a flag for me. Over the years, when the Yankees announce that a player of questionable health has been given the go ahead, usually that signals more to other teams that they are not damaged goods rather than for the Yankees own use. This was the same exact thing last year with Vazquez. He went to get his shoulder checked out prior to the winter meetings, as it turned out, with the intention to clear the way for his inclusion in the Randy Johnson trade. And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks. IMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.

BronxByTheBay
12-01-05, 09:38 AM
And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks.

Impossible. All public declarations made are 100% honest.

TEPLimey
12-01-05, 09:39 AM
I was surprised when I read that this article was recent. I figured he had a clean bill of health in July.

In all seriousness, I am a big advocate of trading Pavano. He has never been a great pitcher, has had some health problems, and has said he wants out of NY. For a good deal, I would be very happy to see him leave. Hopefully this clean bill of health will facilitate such a move.

NewEraYanks2527
12-01-05, 09:40 AM
[QUOTE=Ghost of Dan PasquaIMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.[/QUOTE]
I'd have to disagree. I think he is staying here. Of course that is probably best considering teams are asking for alot from the Yankees for little (the Phillies asked for Wang for Michaels) so I really don't see Cash trading Pavano.

whalers
12-01-05, 09:41 AM
"Meanwhile, Carl Pavano, whose 2005 season was ruined by shoulder weakness, recently received a clean bill of health by Dr. James Andrews."

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4Mjg3MzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

While those of us on this forum debate whether or not the Yankees should trade Pavano, this little note from the Bergen record came as a bit of a flag for me. Over the years, when the Yankees announce that a player of questionable health has been given the go ahead, usually that signals more to other teams that they are not damaged goods rather than for the Yankees own use. This was the same exact thing last year with Vazquez. He went to get his shoulder checked out prior to the winter meetings, as it turned out, with the intention to clear the way for his inclusion in the Randy Johnson trade. And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks. IMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.

The Vazquez situation was a little different. The Yankees used him to get RJ. If not RJ I dont think Javy gets traded last offseason. The Yankees would need to be getting tremendous value if they were going to trade Pavano.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-01-05, 09:43 AM
The Vazquez situation was a little different. The Yankees used him to get RJ. If not RJ I dont think Javy gets traded last offseason. The Yankees would need to be getting tremendous value if they were going to trade Pavano.

And the Yankees will use Pavano to get the centerfield situation sorted out. I'll be floored if Bubba is the everyday centerfielder next year. Even if it's Pavano as part of a deal for a corner outfielder and move Matsui there next year.

nyg02005
12-01-05, 09:44 AM
It could have taken Dr. andrews a minute to give pavano a clean bill of health bec. he did not find anything when he examined him last july or august.

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 09:45 AM
Wouldn't shock me if Pavano is part of the Yankees CF solution. But it better be for a decent CF.

yanksphan
12-01-05, 09:45 AM
The Vazquez situation was a little different. The Yankees used him to get RJ. If not RJ I dont think Javy gets traded last offseason. The Yankees would need to be getting tremendous value if they were going to trade Pavano.

perhaps Abreu...

MTYankee23
12-01-05, 09:46 AM
The ideal solution isn't to trade Pavano in the next week, it would be to wait until after pitchers like Burnett and Millwood have been signed, and there will be teams desparate for starting pitching.

Unlike Vazquez, whose metrics were actually good, and had been fairly consistent, indicating that a few mechanical tweaks would have led to better results, Pavano has been injury prone, and the only consistency he's shown has been for the most part, very average. His peripherals and metrics aren't good, and he's overpaid.

gdn
12-01-05, 09:46 AM
It could have taken Dr. andrews a minute to give pavano a clean bill of health bec. he did not find anything when he examined him last july or august.and you know that because....?

[it better be "I am Dr. Andrews"]

nyg02005
12-01-05, 09:48 AM
and you know that because....?

[it better be "I am Dr. Andrews"]

from cashman when he announced that pavano will be back in the rotation in 1 or 2 weeks. The announcement came after pavano visited andrews.

gdn
12-01-05, 09:49 AM
from cashman when he announced that pavano will be back in the rotation in 1 or 2 weeks. The announcement comes after pavano visits andrews.Obviously something went wrong because he didn't return to the rotation.

I'm sure it fulfills some fantasy to believe that Pavano was actually fine all year long, but just sat out for some unknown reason.

Reality, however, is far away from that.

hlrjr
12-01-05, 09:54 AM
Seattle is still interested in Pavano and recently inquired about him. My dreams could still come true and we acquire Jeremy Reed for him.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/58700.htm

ieddyi
12-01-05, 09:56 AM
and you know that because....?

[it better be "I am Dr. Andrews"]

2 MRI's came back negative and Andrews came up w/ a diagnosis of tendonitis- a meaningless diagnosis

Bub
12-01-05, 09:58 AM
I was surprised when I read that this article was recent. I figured he had a clean bill of health in July.

In all seriousness, I am a big advocate of trading Pavano. He has never been a great pitcher, has had some health problems, and has said he wants out of NY. For a good deal, I would be very happy to see him leave. Hopefully this clean bill of health will facilitate such a move.The question is did we ever see him healthy here? If not, then I'd rather give him another year. If so, then the last thing I want to see is another season of home run derby.

gdn
12-01-05, 09:58 AM
2 MRI's came back negative and Andrews came up w/ a diagnosis of tendonitis- a meaningless diagnosisSo then why did he sit out the rest of the season? There must've been something...

yankswn23
12-01-05, 09:58 AM
I think he is going to get us hunter..

nyg02005
12-01-05, 10:04 AM
So then why did he sit out the rest of the season? There must've been something...

definitiely there is something wrong or lacking with pavano. If he stays with the yankees, I am hoping that it was really physical.

DandyAndy46
12-01-05, 10:04 AM
perhaps Abreu...


http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/abreubo01.shtml


19 career games in CF, good hitter but not a center fielder

IronCaballo4
12-01-05, 10:07 AM
man, at first when I read the thread title I thought "Why would Da Bears want Pavano?" :lol:

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 10:09 AM
I think he is going to get us hunter..
I doubt it. Twins need HITTING, not another pitcher.

whalers
12-01-05, 10:10 AM
I doubt it. Twins need HITTING, not another pitcher.

The last I read Seattle had expressed interest in Pavano. Could Carl land Reed?

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 10:11 AM
The last I read Seattle had expressed interest in Pavano. Could Carl land Reed?
No way.

CptCrunch
12-01-05, 10:13 AM
man, at first when I read the thread title I thought "Why would Da Bears want Pavano?" :lol:

Good, I wasn't the only one.

whalers
12-01-05, 10:13 AM
No way.

Thats what I figured as well. I was just throwing it out there since Seattle is the only team I recently heard had interest in Pavano.

nyg02005
12-01-05, 10:14 AM
No way.

no way as in the seattle will not do it or the yankees will not do it? To me it depend on what the teams think of pavano and his injury.

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 10:14 AM
Good, I wasn't the only one.
Yeah I thought the same thing, but then again they need someone with a little more accuracy than Kyle ;x

gdn
12-01-05, 10:22 AM
definitiely there is something wrong or lacking with pavano. If he stays with the yankees, I am hoping that it was really physical.I'm not as inclined as some are to believe that it was solely mental. I think there was something physically wrong with him.

nyg02005
12-01-05, 10:25 AM
I'm not as inclined as some are to believe that it was solely mental. I think there was something physically wrong with him.

again if he stays with the yankees, i hope you are right.

gdn
12-01-05, 10:26 AM
again if he stays with the yankees, i hope you are right.We'll find out soon enough... I think, if healthy, he can be a good #3.

BRNXBMRS
12-01-05, 10:28 AM
I think pavano will be traded if the right deal comes along. Cashman isnt going to tell the rest of the world that Pavano isnt happy in NY.

23and2
12-01-05, 10:29 AM
Listen to the 11/29 Cashman interview with Mike and the Mad Dog (wfan.com). He doesn't come out an say it, but Pavano is clearly a trade candidate. Him and, I believe, Chacon because he isn't owed a ton of money, are going to be asked about when the FA pitching market dries up. Winter meetings should lay a lot of groundwork for some interesting trade possibilities. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yanks use one of those pitchers, money and some lesser minor prospects to get something done in CF.

gdn
12-01-05, 10:30 AM
I sincerely hope that Chacon isn't traded, though.

BRNXBMRS
12-01-05, 10:40 AM
Listen to the 11/29 Cashman interview with Mike and the Mad Dog (wfan.com). He doesn't come out an say it, but Pavano is clearly a trade candidate. Him and, I believe, Chacon because he isn't owed a ton of money, are going to be asked about when the FA pitching market dries up. Winter meetings should lay a lot of groundwork for some interesting trade possibilities. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yanks use one of those pitchers, money and some lesser minor prospects to get something done in CF.

I took it the sameway regarding Pavano, but I think Cashman is going to keep Chacon beacuse of his age and salary.

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 10:46 AM
I sincerely hope that Chacon isn't traded, though.
I'd rather trade Pavano.

gdn
12-01-05, 10:47 AM
I'd rather trade Pavano.If it came down to the two, I'd give up Pavano in less than a heartbeat.

sugmasterflex
12-01-05, 11:00 AM
The Nationals need pitching. Maybe Pavano for Wilkerson and Schneider?

YankClipper5
12-01-05, 11:34 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/abreubo01.shtml


19 career games in CF, good hitter but not a center fielder

In addition to this, word is Phils and Sox are heated in discussions for a Manny for Abreu swap, I dont know but I just don't see Abreu happening. I would not mind dealing Pavano to the Dodgers to get Milton Bradley, I know I know his attitude but same went for Sheff and no doubt Milt has the tools. I would not mind acquiring him and the Dodgers may be after pitching too...

MTYankee23
12-01-05, 11:38 AM
In addition to this, word is Phils and Sox are heated in discussions for a Manny for Abreu swap, I dont know but I just don't see Abreu happening. I would not mind dealing Pavano to the Dodgers to get Milton Bradley, I know I know his attitude but same went for Sheff and no doubt Milt has the tools. I would not mind acquiring him and the Dodgers may be after pitching too...

You could absolutely get Bradley for Pavano, but I'm not sure you would. I believe he'd be available for far less. The forementioned Wilkerson/Schneider deal, you do in a heartbeat, esp. if the Nationals aren't making you pick up a large chunk of salary.

Buzah!
12-01-05, 11:39 AM
Ghost, good pick-up. It usually does foretell a trade of the healthy player.

Shinebox
12-01-05, 11:44 AM
The Nationals need pitching. Maybe Pavano for Wilkerson and Schneider?

I would do that in a second.. but they signed Stinnett so i dont think they will go get another catcher. Schneider is underrated, he could be a good fit here... and Wilkerson would be huge. A centerfielder AND a backup firstbasemen with one guy.. thats perfect for the yanks

After watching the way Chacon pitched in the playoffs there is no way the yanks could trade him. He was our ace down the stretch last year, and pitched a gem in his first playoff start. Hes a keeper

nyg02005
12-01-05, 11:44 AM
If it came down to the two, I'd give up Pavano in less than a heartbeat.

again it depend on what pavano we are talking about. A mentally and physically healthy pavano is at the very least a no. 3 and on most team a no.1 SP while chacon at his best is a no. 4 maybe a no. 3 SP.

DontHateOnNumber2
12-01-05, 11:50 AM
Seattle is still interested in Pavano and recently inquired about him. My dreams could still come true and we acquire Jeremy Reed for him.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/58700.htm

:lol: Don't we all wish?

YankClipper5
12-01-05, 11:55 AM
You could absolutely get Bradley for Pavano, but I'm not sure you would. I believe he'd be available for far less. The forementioned Wilkerson/Schneider deal, you do in a heartbeat, esp. if the Nationals aren't making you pick up a large chunk of salary.

I see where you are coming from about Bradley for less. He is my prime target for CF because he has the best tools of anyone available, he just needs to be tamed. If we are only getting a mediocre CF otherwise to fill the real estate for a season or 2, why not give Milt the tryout. Maybe they will take Pavano's contract in full? I think it is a fair trade. In terms of tools, I think it is an excellent value and probably the best we can acquire for Pavano. He is young and very talented. If we can get his head straight, admittedly a HUGE if, he can have at least 5 productive seasons at the plate and his speed and arm make him ideal for the Stadium.

DandyAndy46
12-01-05, 11:55 AM
In addition to this, word is Phils and Sox are heated in discussions for a Manny for Abreu swap, I dont know but I just don't see Abreu happening. I would not mind dealing Pavano to the Dodgers to get Milton Bradley, I know I know his attitude but same went for Sheff and no doubt Milt has the tools. I would not mind acquiring him and the Dodgers may be after pitching too...


I think comparing some of Sheff's antics to Milton Bradley's is a bit of a stretch...Bradley has some serious anger management issues...I wouldn't trade felix escalona or a bag of balls for Bradley....he's not worth any risk, much less Pavano

And on another note...what do the Yankees really need from CF?? Someone to catch the ball, if they can't depend on Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, Posada to produce then this team is going to be screwed....they do not NEED an offensive CFer at this point, they need someone to catch the ball

nyctalopia
12-01-05, 11:56 AM
Yeah, Pavano to the Nationals is an intriguing idea since they lost out on Loiaza and aren't in the running for Burnett or Millwood. Wilkerson would look REALLY nice in centerfield.

gdn
12-01-05, 11:59 AM
I think comparing some of Sheff's antics to Milton Bradley's is a bit of a stretch...Bradley has some serious anger management issues...I wouldn't trade felix escalona or a bag of balls for Bradley....he's not worth any risk, much less Pavano

And on another note...what do the Yankees really need from CF?? Someone to catch the ball, if they can't depend on Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, Posada to produce then this team is going to be screwed....they do not NEED an offensive CFer at this point, they need someone to catch the ballEspecially since Bradley would just throw the bag of balls right back.

NewEraYanks2527
12-01-05, 12:01 PM
Yeah, Pavano to the Nationals is an intriguing idea since they lost out on Loiaza and aren't in the running for Burnett or Millwood. Wilkerson would look REALLY nice in centerfield.
Pavano should be able to get us more than just Wilkerson. I'd rather keep Pavano if the trade was Pavano for Wilkerson straight up.

nyctalopia
12-01-05, 12:05 PM
Pavano should be able to get us more than just Wilkerson. I'd rather keep Pavano if the trade was Pavano for Wilkerson straight up.
Agreed. But his trade value is probably not going to be higher for any other team, except maybe Seattle, and unfortunately Pavano won't be enough to net Reed. That's not to say Cashman should get fleeced.

jcan411
12-01-05, 12:07 PM
"Meanwhile, Carl Pavano, whose 2005 season was ruined by shoulder weakness, recently received a clean bill of health by Dr. James Andrews."

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4Mjg3MzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

While those of us on this forum debate whether or not the Yankees should trade Pavano, this little note from the Bergen record came as a bit of a flag for me. Over the years, when the Yankees announce that a player of questionable health has been given the go ahead, usually that signals more to other teams that they are not damaged goods rather than for the Yankees own use. This was the same exact thing last year with Vazquez. He went to get his shoulder checked out prior to the winter meetings, as it turned out, with the intention to clear the way for his inclusion in the Randy Johnson trade. And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks. IMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.


I think we get 50 cents to the dollar on him due to last year. I say keep him and we get more value. His up-side with us is better than anything we could get in a trade IMHO.

NewEraYanks2527
12-01-05, 12:07 PM
Agreed. But his trade value is probably not going to be higher for any other team, except maybe Seattle, and unfortunately Pavano won't be enough to net Reed. That's not to say Cashman should get fleeced. Well maybe Pavano could net Reed depending on how much of the contract the Yankees would be willing to pay. I'd love to see Reed in center (traded for him in MPV 2005) but I really dont see Pavano going anywhere considering how tough teams are being when it comes to trading with the Yankees.

jcan411
12-01-05, 12:10 PM
Well maybe Pavano could net Reed depending on how much of the contract the Yankees would be willing to pay. I'd love to see Reed in center (traded for him in MPV 2005) but I really dont see Pavano going anywhere considering how tough teams are being when it comes to trading with the Yankees.

Reed would be a black hole in our line-up. I wold much rather get wilkerson if we were to trade (which would be a bad idea IMO). Reed had a .674 OPS Last Year! Thats is beyond bad even for a centerfielder.

YankClipper5
12-01-05, 12:11 PM
I think comparing some of Sheff's antics to Milton Bradley's is a bit of a stretch...Bradley has some serious anger management issues...I wouldn't trade felix escalona or a bag of balls for Bradley....he's not worth any risk, much less Pavano

And on another note...what do the Yankees really need from CF?? Someone to catch the ball, if they can't depend on Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, Posada to produce then this team is going to be screwed....they do not NEED an offensive CFer at this point, they need someone to catch the ball

OK The offense idea is rubbish, there is no sense in having a rally killer if you can avoid it. I think it is also critical to be able to rest Sheff and Giambi and Matsui which will crowd the DH role and with Sheff and Matsui having a CF who has the speed and arm to cover more field, will have an easier time. Bradley is nuts, yes, but to trade for basically a Bubba Crosby type of player who looks a little better because they play for a worse team is silly. The reward on Bradley is enormous if he straightens out and while this is not rock solid, I have a theory that he would be more humbled on the Yanks because he is no longer anything special in comparison to the rest of the team. He has speed and a good arm, good defensive skills, and he can hit, why not take the risk. Otherwise, I say leave Bubba to man CF and see if a good CF comes available around the deadline.

nyctalopia
12-01-05, 12:11 PM
I think we get 50 cents to the dollar on him due to last year. I say keep him and we get more value. His up-side with us is better than anything we could get in a trade IMHO.
Yeah I would like to keep him also. But if a team came forward with a fair trade for an above-average center fielder, wouldn't you jump at the idea? We have excess pitching so even if we trade him for less than true value, we're filling a HUGE hole with an extraneous part.

Flatten78
12-01-05, 12:14 PM
i wouldnt mind trading pavano for CF'r, and then possibly we could sign jarrod washburn(is he a FA?). I think washburn is a perfect fit in our rotation, he can be our 4th or 5th starter.

jcan411
12-01-05, 12:14 PM
Yeah I would like to keep him also. But if a team came forward with a fair trade for an above-average center fielder, wouldn't you jump at the idea? We have excess pitching so even if we trade him for less than true value, we're filling a HUGE hole with an extraneous part.

It's tough but there is really no centerfielder that is worth trading for. Wilkerson is vastly overrated (.756 OPS with 147 SO and only 11 homers), and I want no part of Reed. Micheals is intruiging but wh knows about a minor leaguer starting center for us. Pierre sucks, period. He would be lost in NY as we do not run much. Pavano for Wilkerson and some other piece is probably as far as we could get in terms of some value.

WTrain44
12-01-05, 01:22 PM
"Meanwhile, Carl Pavano, whose 2005 season was ruined by shoulder weakness, recently received a clean bill of health by Dr. James Andrews."

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4Mjg3MzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

While those of us on this forum debate whether or not the Yankees should trade Pavano, this little note from the Bergen record came as a bit of a flag for me. Over the years, when the Yankees announce that a player of questionable health has been given the go ahead, usually that signals more to other teams that they are not damaged goods rather than for the Yankees own use. This was the same exact thing last year with Vazquez. He went to get his shoulder checked out prior to the winter meetings, as it turned out, with the intention to clear the way for his inclusion in the Randy Johnson trade. And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks. IMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.


Wouldn't the question be for whom?

mhmajp
12-01-05, 01:36 PM
Wouldn't shock me if Pavano is part of the Yankees CF solution. But it better be for a decent CF.

I think you're right. He has a cannon for an arm and I've seen him catch a few pop ups, so... ;)

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:10 PM
"Meanwhile, Carl Pavano, whose 2005 season was ruined by shoulder weakness, recently received a clean bill of health by Dr. James Andrews."

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4Mjg3MzYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

While those of us on this forum debate whether or not the Yankees should trade Pavano, this little note from the Bergen record came as a bit of a flag for me. Over the years, when the Yankees announce that a player of questionable health has been given the go ahead, usually that signals more to other teams that they are not damaged goods rather than for the Yankees own use. This was the same exact thing last year with Vazquez. He went to get his shoulder checked out prior to the winter meetings, as it turned out, with the intention to clear the way for his inclusion in the Randy Johnson trade. And also Cashman has now come out and said that Pavano didn't want out of NY. To me this is all screaming leverage in trade talks. IMO, I think Pavano gets traded next week, the question is, for who.

hopefully wilkerson(the Nats would be on crack but i can hope)

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:16 PM
again it depend on what pavano we are talking about. A mentally and physically healthy pavano is at the very least a no. 3 and on most team a no.1 SP while chacon at his best is a no. 4 maybe a no. 3 SP.

Pavano had one fluke year, he is a number 4 or 5 at best. Chacon is a number 4 or 3 at best, one is a few years younger and paid a lot less

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:21 PM
It's tough but there is really no centerfielder that is worth trading for. Wilkerson is vastly overrated (.756 OPS with 147 SO and only 11 homers), and I want no part of Reed. Micheals is intruiging but wh knows about a minor leaguer starting center for us. Pierre sucks, period. He would be lost in NY as we do not run much. Pavano for Wilkerson and some other piece is probably as far as we could get in terms of some value.

That was last year in the same stadium that esteban loazia had a era under 4 in(and his era was much higher on the road) WIlkersons career stats are better and he would be better playing in Yankee Stadium.

NelsonMuntz
12-01-05, 02:25 PM
It's tough but there is really no centerfielder that is worth trading for. Wilkerson is vastly overrated (.756 OPS with 147 SO and only 11 homers), and I want no part of Reed. Micheals is intruiging but wh knows about a minor leaguer starting center for us. Pierre sucks, period. He would be lost in NY as we do not run much. Pavano for Wilkerson and some other piece is probably as far as we could get in terms of some value.
Wilkerson has a career 111 OPS+ and is solid defensively yet you barely hear his name mentioned. How exactly is he overrated?

More importantly, with the exception of Bradley, Wilkerson would probably cost the least of all the potential CF options due to the fact that he is undervalued by the Nationals who incidentally are absolutely desperate for starting pitching. They just lost Loaiza, and will probably lose Carrasco and Armas Jr. as well. They would be crazy to turn down a Pavano for Wilkerson offer especially if we are paying some of Pavano's salary. I'd start with offering Small and a B level prospect though and see if JimBo bites.

DJ27
12-01-05, 03:00 PM
Especially since Bradley would just throw the bag of balls right back.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

JeffWeaverFan
12-01-05, 03:45 PM
The ideal solution isn't to trade Pavano in the next week, it would be to wait until after pitchers like Burnett and Millwood have been signed, and there will be teams desparate for starting pitching.

I wonder if we would go after Millwood, or any SP available, if we traded Pavano though.

My guess is he will be traded sometime after the winter meetings.

YankClipper5
12-01-05, 04:04 PM
I wonder if we would go after Millwood, or any SP available, if we traded Pavano though.

My guess is he will be traded sometime after the winter meetings.

Good point, I completely forgot about Millwood, and strangely his name hasn't been tossed around much. I actually thought he should be a target of the Yanks, especially if they are going to make an offer to a starter. I think he should be signed after his great season with the Indians, he would make Pavano or Wright expendable while reducing the likelihood of an injured starter, given Pavano last year and the well documented history of Wright.

JeffWeaverFan
12-01-05, 04:44 PM
Good point, I completely forgot about Millwood, and strangely his name hasn't been tossed around much. I actually thought he should be a target of the Yanks, especially if they are going to make an offer to a starter. I think he should be signed after his great season with the Indians, he would make Pavano or Wright expendable while reducing the likelihood of an injured starter, given Pavano last year and the well documented history of Wright.
Yes, I like Millwood a lot as a pitcher, but remember, his agent is Scott Boras. He will be very difficult to deal with and will cost major $$$.

StatenIslandYankee
12-01-05, 05:13 PM
Wilkerson for Pavano?

thegift711
12-01-05, 05:31 PM
Yes, I like Millwood a lot as a pitcher, but remember, his agent is Scott Boras. He will be very difficult to deal with and will cost major $$$.

But more $$$ than Pavano's near-10 million? Maybe, maybe not.

yanksphan
12-01-05, 05:45 PM
But more $$$ than Pavano's near-10 million? Maybe, maybe not.

Boras has said 5/$60mil...

ieddyi
12-01-05, 05:53 PM
Boras has said 5/$60mil...

Boras made outrageous demands the last 2 years and Milwood ended up with 1 year deals

We'll see

NYDCYankee
12-01-05, 05:59 PM
I think something is going to happen with Pavano at the winter meetings. This announcement was in perfect timing.

Brent
12-01-05, 06:01 PM
I think comparing some of Sheff's antics to Milton Bradley's is a bit of a stretch...Bradley has some serious anger management issues...I wouldn't trade felix escalona or a bag of balls for Bradley....he's not worth any risk, much less Pavano


I wouldnt trade Pavano for him but at least MB played to win. When Sheffield was a kid he purposefully made throwing errors to get traded. He's done a pretty good job for us. I wouldnt mind having Bradley, I think we could get him for next to nothing, and if he flips out we could just release him.

indianyanksfan
12-01-05, 06:10 PM
am i the only one who wants pavano to be a yankee still? :(

NewEraYanks2527
12-01-05, 06:17 PM
am i the only one who wants pavano to be a yankee still? :(
No you are not, as it has happened many times before I agree with you. I would like to see a healthy Pavano next year, he has such a high upside.

gszabo
12-01-05, 07:41 PM
2 MRI's came back negative and Andrews came up w/ a diagnosis of tendonitis- a meaningless diagnosis

Having had tendinitis, it does impact you. i've gotta give Pavano the benefit of the doubt here. he's a baseball player, i'm sure he wanted to pitch.

IncredibleByNature
12-01-05, 07:59 PM
am i the only one who wants pavano to be a yankee still? :(

I'd like to see him stay a Yankee as well, although if the right deal came along, I would trade him.

NelsonMuntz
12-01-05, 08:08 PM
I'd like to see him stay a Yankee as well, although if the right deal came along, I would trade him.
Same here.

Stan Musial
12-01-05, 08:30 PM
Pavano may be the Yanks best bargaining chip. With that being said, he also had a terrible year and should make a solid come back this year. He may not be worth the cash the Yanks pay, but he's a very good pitcher.

keeping him, unless it lands the Yanks a top-tier CF, would be the best course of action.

indianyanksfan
12-01-05, 08:31 PM
No you are not, as it has happened many times before I agree with you. I would like to see a healthy Pavano next year, he has such a high upside.


we're always on the same wavelength. :)

indianyanksfan
12-01-05, 08:32 PM
I'd like to see him stay a Yankee as well, although if the right deal came along, I would trade him.

oh my god we agree on something? :eek: :D

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 09:10 PM
Pavano may be the Yanks best bargaining chip. With that being said, he also had a terrible year and should make a solid come back this year. He may not be worth the cash the Yanks pay, but he's a very good pitcher.

keeping him, unless it lands the Yanks a top-tier CF, would be the best course of action.

pavano had one good fluke year because of the defense behind him. His rate k and walk rates were all the same as his mediocre career numbers, which indicates that the only decent year he has had was a fluke. He will never have an era under 4 as a starter for us

NewEraYanks2527
12-01-05, 09:16 PM
pavano had one good fluke year because of the defense behind him. His rate k and walk rates were all the same as his mediocre career numbers, which indicates that the only decent year he has had was a fluke. He will never have an era under 4 as a starter for us Why is he your avatar? It doesnt seem like you have any faith in him.

Matsui55
12-01-05, 09:35 PM
There is something to be said for waiting for Pavano to be healthy and improve his trade value by doing better. However, when I see Pavano, and you listen to the supposed quotes and statements he has supposedly made to friends, I hear "Ed Whitson."

While I agree he may have to prove health in ST, if any team is willing to take him on now in a fair deal (and by a fair deal, I mean they take his contract, with the Yanks picking up none of it, while getting a player in return- preferably a major leaguer or ready to break in guy), I think they have to do it.

If his mental state really is where these supposed quotes indicate it is, now IS his high point in trade value.

DandyAndy46
12-01-05, 09:46 PM
am i the only one who wants pavano to be a yankee still? :(


No, I still want him...I think he has tremendous potential with this club

Stan Musial
12-01-05, 10:52 PM
pavano had one good fluke year because of the defense behind him. His rate k and walk rates were all the same as his mediocre career numbers, which indicates that the only decent year he has had was a fluke. He will never have an era under 4 as a starter for us
He had some decent years with the Expos. I guess it depends on your and my definition of decent.
But, some of what you say I can agree with. The Yanks overpayed and by a large amount. It may be difficult to move that contract w/out taking some of it on or not getting the top tier prospects the Yanks may want. If that is the case, I'd be inclined to keep him in '06 and see how he pans out.

dabomb2045
12-01-05, 11:02 PM
Pavano just isnt that good....he had one really good year in Florida and parlayed that into a big money deal (much like Wright did). Unfortunately for us....we were suckers in signing both of them

George Steinbrenner
12-01-05, 11:16 PM
i believe Pavano was legitmately hurt last year. He always seemed to wear down in the 5th or 6th inning.

Does he want out/or do we want him out I dont know, but I would rather keep him than ship him off for lesser value or have to pick up a big portion of the 30 something million remaining on his contract. He can be a solid #2 guy who has proven he can deliver in October (great postseason in 03 and solid year in 04).

All that being said, im not really attached to him- if the right deal comes along we pull the trigger and send'm packing!

nyg02005
12-04-05, 11:27 AM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1


the mariners dangled reed for pavano and the yankees passed. I guess cashman does not want to trade pavano after all.

BillBuckner
12-04-05, 11:30 AM
am i the only one who wants pavano to be a yankee still? :(
I'd like to see him stay. If healthy, he can be a solid pitcher for our rotation. But I'm not saying I wouldn't mind seeing him go if a good deal comes our way.

flymick24
12-04-05, 12:07 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1


the mariners dangled reed for pavano and the yankees passed. I guess cashman does not want to trade pavano after all.

or he might be just waiting for them to offer more than just reed

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 12:11 PM
or he might be just waiting for them to offer more than just reed
They also might have dangled Reed and wanted to Yankees to pay too much of the money owed to Pavano.

ppa79
12-04-05, 12:19 PM
or he might be just waiting for them to offer more than just reed

I think if Pavano is going anywhere its going to be Seattle. I have a feeling Cashman would love to have Reed, but is seeing what else he could get from them.

Jeremy Reed's minor league numbers show he is a much better player than what he showed last year. He has Good patience and decent power.

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 12:23 PM
I think if Pavano is going anywhere its going to be Seattle. I have a feeling Cashman would love to have Reed, but is seeing what else he could get from them.

Jeremy Reed's minor league numbers show he is a much better player than what he showed last year. He has Good patience and decent power.
I'd love to have Reed, however if Pavano goes I'd rather not see Wright in the rotation which would inevitably happen unless the Yankees were to sign someone like Washburn or (please no) MIllwood. However I can only see Seattle wanting money to go along with Pavano and I am sick of seeing the Yankees pay players to not play for them.

hlrjr
12-04-05, 12:24 PM
Seattle offering Reed is music to my ears. Cashman has to be holding out for a reliever aside from reed. But darn it i want jeremy reed in pinstripes!

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 12:30 PM
Seattle offering Reed is music to my ears. Cashman has to be holding out for a reliever aside from reed. But darn it i want jeremy reed in pinstripes!
What relievers does Seattle have that could help? I'm just asking because I am not really sure of who they have in their bullpen besides Guardado.

Clemens831
12-04-05, 12:34 PM
Oh! PLEASE let this happen! Jeremy Reed in CF would be so sweet. We can't pass up this 2nd opportunity to grab this guy.

Davios
12-04-05, 12:36 PM
They have Rafael Soriano and Putz. Soriano's coming off an arm injury so I wouldn't be too sure about that, and Putz has great stuff but has melted down in big spots for them.

NYDCYankee
12-04-05, 12:40 PM
So maybe they would be willing to trade putz then. Putz and Reed for Pavano would be great. I think we are going to see Pavano traded before the Winter Meetings are over.

38Special
12-04-05, 12:42 PM
Soriano and Reed For Pavano is bonertown

ppa79
12-04-05, 12:43 PM
If the Phillies can get 3 good players for Thome + cash, we should be able to get something decent for Pavano + cash.

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 12:44 PM
So maybe they would be willing to trade putz then. Putz and Reed for Pavano would be great. I think we are going to see Pavano traded before the Winter Meetings are over.
Reed definitly solves the CF situation for a while and I'd love to have him. (I traded for him in MVP 2005 when I got it last year) I wonder if he could hit for average and be a leadoff hitter eventually...
EDIT I'd rather see Soriano come over then Putz.

ppa79
12-04-05, 12:47 PM
Reed definitly solves the CF situation for a while and I'd love to have him. (I traded for him in MVP 2005 when I got it last year) I wonder if he could hit for average and be a leadoff hitter eventually...
EDIT I'd rather see Soriano come over then Putz.

Hopefully Cashman makes this a reality. :D

NYDCYankee
12-04-05, 12:47 PM
Reed definitly solves the CF situation for a while and I'd love to have him. (I traded for him in MVP 2005 when I got it last year) I wonder if he could hit for average and be a leadoff hitter eventually...
EDIT I'd rather see Soriano come over then Putz.

Does anyone have Reed's minor league stats handy?

ppa79
12-04-05, 12:48 PM
Does anyone have Reed's minor league stats handy?

There you go.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/jeremy-reed.shtml

hlrjr
12-04-05, 12:58 PM
Please oh Please Cashman trade for Jeremy Reed! I've been dreaming for over a year now!

NYDCYankee
12-04-05, 12:58 PM
Reed definitly solves the CF situation for a while and I'd love to have him. (I traded for him in MVP 2005 when I got it last year) I wonder if he could hit for average and be a leadoff hitter eventually...
EDIT I'd rather see Soriano come over then Putz.


What are your concerns about him leading off?

38Special
12-04-05, 12:59 PM
I want Jeremy Reed

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 01:02 PM
What are your concerns about him leading off?
What do you mean by concerns? I was just wondering if maybe he could be a good leadoff hitter, he is fast and perhaps he could steal bases. Though let me just make it clear I dont have a problem with Jeter leading off. I was just thinking with a really fast guy leading off like Reed that maybe he could really make the lineup that much more deadly.

ppa79
12-04-05, 01:03 PM
I have a feeling this will get done. Seattle has already offered us Reed for Pavano which is the starting point. Now Cashman is either looking for a better deal than this, trying to get them to give us another player or trying to get them to pay more of Pavano's contract.

NYDCYankee
12-04-05, 01:06 PM
What do you mean by concerns? I was just wondering if maybe he could be a good leadoff hitter, he is fast and perhaps he could steal bases. Though let me just make it clear I dont have a problem with Jeter leading off. I was just thinking with a really fast guy leading off like Reed that maybe he could really make the lineup that much more deadly.

Wow sorry, your right I misread what you wrote. Anyway I agree Jeter should remain leadoff. But Reed would be a nice way to end the lineup.

NYDCYankee
12-04-05, 01:06 PM
I have a feeling this will get done. Seattle has already offered us Reed for Pavano which is the starting point. Now Cashman is either looking for a better deal than this, trying to get them to give us another player or trying to get them to pay more of Pavano's contract.


It certainly is a good sign.

ppa79
12-04-05, 01:13 PM
I'd rather see Soriano come over then Putz.

If they can get Soriano somehow, our pen by midseason would be:

Rivera
Farnsworth
Soriano
Sturtze
Cox
Small

A weakness immediately turns into a strength.

Davios
12-04-05, 01:20 PM
Soriano hadn't been pitching very well for Escojido in the wintr league the last I read but that was a month ago. There is some question if he is all the way back from Tommy John.

Mark19
12-04-05, 01:23 PM
Pavano for Reed and Meche

Do it, Do it

ieddyi
12-04-05, 01:35 PM
So maybe they would be willing to trade putz then. Putz and Reed for Pavano would be great. I think we are going to see Pavano traded before the Winter Meetings are over.

Putz- adding a little ethnic flavor to the johnson/wang mix

AMYanks
12-04-05, 01:41 PM
I hope Cashman is holding out for something extra. The way it was written, though, was not very encouraging.

Putz and Reed for Pavano would be pretty awesome.

Snatch Catch
12-04-05, 01:43 PM
Putz- adding a little ethnic flavor to the johnson/wang mix

He would be the missing piece to a Johnson/Wang staff.

gdn
12-04-05, 03:51 PM
If Corey Patterson is non-tendered, the Yankees should pick him up ASAP.

longtimeyankeefan
12-04-05, 03:57 PM
Where has it been reported that Seattle has recently offered Reed to the Yankees for Pavano? Or are people just revisiting last season's proposed deadline deal?

gdn
12-04-05, 03:58 PM
Where has it been reported that Seattle has recently offered Reed to the Yankees for Pavano? Or are people just revisiting last season's proposed deadline deal?The post article linked above.

Mark19
12-04-05, 03:58 PM
Where has it been reported that Seattle has recently offered Reed to the Yankees for Pavano? Or are people just revisiting last season's proposed deadline deal?

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1

longtimeyankeefan
12-04-05, 04:02 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1

I realize the article says "recently", but I have to wonder if recently is last July and the writer is just reviewing recent history.

gdn
12-04-05, 04:05 PM
I realize the article says "recently", but I have to wonder if recently is last July and the writer is just reviewing recent history.If that was the case, the writer would have written "at last season's trade deadline" instead.

NelsonMuntz
12-04-05, 04:07 PM
I have a feeling this will get done. Seattle has already offered us Reed for Pavano which is the starting point. Now Cashman is either looking for a better deal than this, trying to get them to give us another player or trying to get them to pay more of Pavano's contract.
What makes you so confident that this deal will get done? According to the article:

The Seattle Mariners recently dangled Jeremy Reed in talks about Carl Pavano, but the Yankees passed.
Like yourself and many others on this board, I'd love to have Reed, but I see no indication that Cashman shares that sentiment.

gdn
12-04-05, 04:10 PM
What makes you so confident that this deal will get done? According to the article:

Like yourself and many others on this board, I'd love to have Reed, but I see no indication that Cashman shares that sentiment.It's possible that he's trying to drive up the price.

ComeBackShane47
12-04-05, 04:13 PM
If the Yanks really passed on a Pavano for Reed swap, we all have to be worried about the future of this team

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 04:13 PM
It's possible that he's trying to drive up the price.
As a good GM should.

NelsonMuntz
12-04-05, 04:15 PM
It's possible that he's trying to drive up the price.
Eh, anything is possible, but I just think it means the Yankees simply passed on the offer. Maybe I am underestimating Cashman.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-04-05, 04:17 PM
It's possible that he's trying to drive up the price.

Of course he is. Look at the free agent market, the best guys are Kevin Millwood and Jarrod Washburn, not too exciting. And from there the guys available in trades are, realistically:

Javy Vazquez (only to an East Coast team)
David Wells (only to San Diego)
Barry Zito (maybe, and will cost a ransom to get).

Pavano would be highly sought after if (when) he's made available by Cashman. The hang up with him would be his health (since cleared by Andrews, as I had mentioned when I started this monstrousity) and the money left on his deal (which isn't horrifically unmanagable considering the inflated market for pitching...see the relievers). Pavano is a major trade chip right now, and Cashman can get a very good player(s) for him.

DJ27
12-04-05, 04:25 PM
Pavano is a major trade chip right now, and Cashman can get a very good player(s) for him.

Should be a fun week to follow!

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 04:26 PM
Should be a fun week to follow!
HELL YEA IT WILL BE!! THIS IS MY FAVORITE WEEK OF THE MONTHS WITHOUT BASEBALL!!

ppa79
12-04-05, 04:26 PM
What makes you so confident that this deal will get done? According to the article:

Like yourself and many others on this board, I'd love to have Reed, but I see no indication that Cashman shares that sentiment.

In my opinion, I think Cashman would love to have Reed and I have no reason to think not. He's young, cheap, fills a major CF hole, and has the potential to be a good player. But Cashman needs to check out all the offers he could get for Pavano. Maybe there is something better out there we don't know about. Seattle willing to part with Reed for Pavano is a plus and it sets the bar on the minimum amount of talent that Pavano should be getting back for Pavano.

NelsonMuntz
12-04-05, 04:35 PM
In my opinion, I think Cashman would love to have Reed and I have no reason to think not. He's young, cheap, fills a major CF hole, and has the potential to be a good player. But Cashman needs to check out all the offers he could get for Pavano. Maybe there is something better out there we don't know about. Seattle willing to part with Reed for Pavano is a plus and it sets the bar on the minimum amount of talent that Pavano should be getting back for Pavano.
Well I hope you're right. I'm having a hard time staying positive. I guess I'm still a little shellshocked from last offseason where we failed to address our obvious needs.

indianyanksfan
12-04-05, 04:42 PM
the only reason i dont want pavano traded is i dont want wright in the rotation. the real question is are the alternatives really better than just having pavano in the rotation?

why not just see if we can get someone who's going to be non-tendered for just cash? like a bradley or a patterson.

ComeBackShane47
12-04-05, 04:51 PM
Well I hope you're right. I'm having a hard time staying positive. I guess I'm still a little shellshocked from last offseason where we failed to address our obvious needs.


Not only did the Yanks fail to address their needs but they created new holes by the moves they did make. Hopefully the Yanks can add guys like Reed while keeping guys like Cano and getting rid of guys like Pavano.

WrightIsWrong
12-04-05, 05:32 PM
I think it would be wise to hold on to Pavano for a couple of reasons:

1)He's coming off an injury filled season & is making big money hence his value is low; With the $$$ being shelled out to pitchers not as talented as Pavano(ie-Paul Byrd just signed a 2yr/$14.25M deal w/ Cleveland or Hector Carrasco's 2yr/$6M contract w/ the Angels) or bigger $$$ being shelled out for the Burnetts & Millwoods of the world,Pavano's deal is not going to seem as unmanageable so the Yanks will have to pick up less,if any,salary & can get a better return.

2)I'm not a big Pavano fan but who will replace him in the rotation?Jaret Wright?Please no.Are the Yanks going to overpay for another middle of the road starter so we can all next season be screaming on these boards about how the Yanks needs to be rid of so & so?

Pavano's contract was a mistake;The Yanks should not keep compounding the mistake by (a)paying some team to take Pavano & (b)giving out a big contract to a middle of the road pitcher.

BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-04-05, 06:25 PM
I'm one of the few Milton Bradley supporters too, but I think the point is it wouldn't take Pavano to get him, so why not get him and keep Pavano.

JeffWeaverFan
12-04-05, 06:55 PM
It's possible that he's trying to drive up the price.
Well, with the contracts starting pitchers have been signing this year, Pavano's value probably has gone up. Loaiza and Byrd are both going to make over $7 million a year.

Still though, if we can get Reed for Pavano, this deal has to be made immediately.

Yankeeah
12-04-05, 07:32 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1


the mariners dangled reed for pavano and the yankees passed. I guess cashman does not want to trade pavano after all.

I don't know about that, I'd imagine the Yankees would do that deal. I wish they would

StatenIslandYankee
12-04-05, 07:34 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113367913660530.xml&coll=1


the mariners dangled reed for pavano and the yankees passed. I guess cashman does not want to trade pavano after all.
No way is Cashman this dumb to turn it down.

allstarcano22
12-04-05, 07:46 PM
ahhh! *69!! bring back reed!

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-04-05, 07:48 PM
Reed isn't too special, why are you guys sweating him? His minor league numbers are strong but they haven't translated to any success in the majors. Last year wasn't good for him, and his SB% was 52%...

Yankeeah
12-04-05, 07:50 PM
Reed isn't too special, why are you guys sweating him? His minor league numbers are strong but they haven't translated to any success in the majors. Last year wasn't good for him, and his SB% was 52%...

Decent OBP, good speed and very nice defense. Plus we keep our prospects in that deal. Which is why I don't Cash was approached with that deal.

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-04-05, 07:51 PM
Decent OBP, good speed and very nice defense. Plus we keep our prospects in that deal. Which is why I don't Cash was approached with that deal.

.322 isn't decent, he also slugged .352...

Yankeeah
12-04-05, 07:54 PM
.322 isn't decent, he also slugged .352...

Considering his defense, I'd take a .322 OBP. It's just a shade below Pierre's, but his defense is much better.

ppa79
12-04-05, 07:54 PM
Reed isn't too special, why are you guys sweating him? His minor league numbers are strong but they haven't translated to any success in the majors. Last year wasn't good for him, and his SB% was 52%...

It was his first year. If he had a good 1st year, then no way would be able to get a guy like him. I expect him to have a better season next year.

mrbawm
12-04-05, 08:06 PM
If that Reed rumor is true, we should have probably jumped at that. Maybe Cash is trying to build leverage and get a bit more.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-04-05, 08:26 PM
If that Reed rumor is true, we should have probably jumped at that. Maybe Cash is trying to build leverage and get a bit more.

Just a thought to throw out there. The A's may end up trading Zito at some point due to his salary. They also have been linked to discussions with LA to trade for Milton Bradley. If the A's do end up dealing Zito and also separately bring in Bradley, might that free up a Pavano for Kotsay trade? Cashman did call about him a few weeks ago.

38Special
12-04-05, 08:27 PM
We cant get too desperate. Pavano has potential to be a very good pitcher for us, while Reed has always hit for very little power, and at best will just be an average offensive player. He does have a good defensive reputation though.

YankeePride1967
12-04-05, 08:30 PM
I think people are being a bit too hasty here int wanting to give up on Pavano. Also realize th is. If Pavano is gone, then Wright is in the rotation.

goin for 27
12-04-05, 08:33 PM
I think people are being a bit too hasty here int wanting to give up on Pavano. Also realize th is. If Pavano is gone, then Wright is in the rotation.

That realization makes me want to become a driver/bodyguard for Pavano. Anything to keep Wright off the hill. :lol:

mrbawm
12-04-05, 08:38 PM
What was Reed projected to hit like in the majors?

BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-04-05, 08:39 PM
Just a thought to throw out there. The A's may end up trading Zito at some point due to his salary. They also have been linked to discussions with LA to trade for Milton Bradley. If the A's do end up dealing Zito and also separately bring in Bradley, might that free up a Pavano for Kotsay trade? Cashman did call about him a few weeks ago.
If that were the case then why not just get Bradley and keep pavano?

YankeePride1967
12-04-05, 08:39 PM
That realization makes me want to become a driver/bodyguard for Pavano. Anything to keep Wright off the hill. :lol:

Yes and before people say "that's okay, we'll just go out and sign a FA". We would have to likely pay a sizable portion of Pavano's remaining contract. Add that on to whatever we pay a FA and that is reminiscent of our recent business follies. I don't trade him unless the trade makes sense (i.e. we don't pay his contract and we get a decent return, but since that won't happen, we keep him).

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-04-05, 08:56 PM
If that were the case then why not just get Bradley and keep pavano?

Because Cashman apparently wants nothing to do with Bradley. However, Oakland apparently doesn't have the same worries (and playing there is a much lesser microscope than in NY). For Beane it might be worth it to be able to bring in Bradley for minimal talent (and price tag), and also get Pavano as part to replace Zito while giving the Yankees a player they were chasing last year. Bottom line, I don't think anyone in the Yankees brain trust wants to risk Bradley come to NY, get reminded of his past everyday by the media and then have to deal with the fallout when he eventually cracks and punches Michael Kay in the head (though that would be extremely enjoyable) or throws something into the stands.

surge511
12-04-05, 09:18 PM
I am split as to whether we should keep or trade Pavano. It will come down to the deal we are offered.
Here, though is my point:
If we are going to trade Pavano, we better do it this week at the meetings. While we have 7 starters, I am in no way comfortable putting Small or Wright in the rotation. There are still 2 big pitchers on the market (Millwood, Washburn), and Zito is available through trade. So that would give us more than enough time to focus basically the rest of this offseason primarily on pitching.
So my message to Cash: Make up your mind this week to keep or trade Pavano, and act accordingly. Do not get caught in the middle by fixing one hole and opening up another.

Mattpat11
12-04-05, 09:19 PM
. Also realize th is. If Pavano is gone, then Wright is in the rotation.Six of one, half dozen of the other.

surge511
12-04-05, 09:22 PM
Because Cashman apparently wants nothing to do with Bradley. However, Oakland apparently doesn't have the same worries (and playing there is a much lesser microscope than in NY). For Beane it might be worth it to be able to bring in Bradley for minimal talent (and price tag), and also get Pavano as part to replace Zito while giving the Yankees a player they were chasing last year. Bottom line, I don't think anyone in the Yankees brain trust wants to risk Bradley come to NY, get reminded of his past everyday by the media and then have to deal with the fallout when he eventually cracks and punches Michael Kay in the head (though that would be extremely enjoyable) or throws something into the stands.

I understand the media frenzy that would come with Bradley to NY, but I don't think he would act up as a Yank. With all the stars and respectable vets around him, plus Torre, he would probably be ok. That seems to be the case with all the hotheads that come here, but he may be a harder nut to crack.

Bernie Inferno
12-04-05, 09:29 PM
I really do not understand those in the "Pavano's Contract Was a Horrible Mistake" Club. Do you all not remember Carlpolozza? Almost every team in the league wanted the man. He even supposedly turned down more money from the other teams that offered him a deal to become a Yankee. I also do not believe that he is unhappy here, specifically with Torre, a man that Pavano said he would go to war for, still the skipper.

That said, we have a surplus of pitchers. You need to trade from a strength to build a weakness. If we get the right offer, Carl is surely not Elliot Ness. He is touchable.

Also, it is important to keep in mind that young pitchers may be reluctant to sign with the club after what has happened with Vazquez and what is being suggested for Pavano.

YankeePride1967
12-04-05, 09:36 PM
Six of one, half dozen of the other.

I'll take my chances with a pitcher that has proven he can pitch in October and was pitching decently until his shoulder started buggin him over a guy who's had one good year in the last 10. It's a good thing we've shown more patience with other players that had off years. To trade Pavano and eat most of his contract would be idiotic to put it mildly.

donniesrecordholdsup
12-04-05, 09:56 PM
I'll take my chances with a pitcher that has proven he can pitch in October and was pitching decently until his shoulder started buggin him over a guy who's had one good year in the last 10. It's a good thing we've shown more patience with other players that had off years. To trade Pavano and eat most of his contract would be idiotic to put it mildly.
theyre both injury prone mediocre pitchers who had one fluke good season in their contract years. wright "proved he could pitch in october" too or did you forget the 97 postseason ?? i mean really if jose mesa doesnt blow game 7 in 97 then wright has a ring too.

porsche986
12-04-05, 10:04 PM
Because Cashman apparently wants nothing to do with Bradley. However, Oakland apparently doesn't have the same worries (and playing there is a much lesser microscope than in NY). For Beane it might be worth it to be able to bring in Bradley for minimal talent (and price tag), and also get Pavano as part to replace Zito while giving the Yankees a player they were chasing last year. Bottom line, I don't think anyone in the Yankees brain trust wants to risk Bradley come to NY, get reminded of his past everyday by the media and then have to deal with the fallout when he eventually cracks and punches Michael Kay in the head (though that would be extremely enjoyable) or throws something into the stands.

I think the reason Zito is speculated to be available is because Oakland just signed Loaiza. Not saying they wouldn't also be interested in Pavano, but I am sure Beane would require the Yanks to pay a large portion.

Mattpat11
12-04-05, 10:08 PM
I'll take my chances with a pitcher that has proven he can pitch in October and was pitching decently until his shoulder started buggin .4.77 ERA is decent?

MassNYYfan
12-04-05, 10:29 PM
4.77 ERA is decent?

Depends on when you think his shoulder starting bothering him. 3.10 ERA in April. ;)

27IsNext
12-04-05, 10:33 PM
Anyone think that we aren't getting the full scope of this alleged "Pavano for Reed" deal?

MisterNovember
12-04-05, 10:36 PM
Anyone think that we aren't getting the full scope of this alleged "Pavano for Reed" deal?

We are DEFINITELY not getting the whole story here. Most likely, Seattle wanted Cashman to pick up most of Pavano's salary.

NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 10:36 PM
Anyone think that we aren't getting the full scope of this alleged "Pavano for Reed" deal? Oh I think so. There is something going on, maybe they wanted the Yanks to pay too much money maybe Cash wanted more in return.

nyg02005
12-04-05, 10:57 PM
I do not know if this offer coincides with the time Cashman phone Pavano to asked him if he still wants to be with NY and Pavano answered in the affirmative

JeffWeaverFan
12-04-05, 11:29 PM
Depends on when you think his shoulder starting bothering him. 3.10 ERA in April. ;)
If you look at his 2004 numbers, take into factor the change in defense, switch to a more hitters friendly park, and the switch to the AL, an ERA of 4.40 is about right.

JapanJobbers
12-05-05, 02:00 AM
Anyone think that we aren't getting the full scope of this alleged "Pavano for Reed" deal?

I think so.
I'm not sure if Seattle would do this. They know they need a good Defensive CFer for Safeco and Reed's cheap. Plus if they trade him, then the M's have no one for CF.

bronxbomberz212
12-05-05, 02:37 AM
i dunno if any of this offseason makes sense at all. marlins trading everyone and their mother, minaya snatching up players like a fatman in a buffet, and the yankees staying pretty quiet throughout it all. lol. i was a pavano fan last season, i rooted hard for us to sign him and was praying for him to come back during the season and pitch well; but after his mysterious shoulder ailment and the fact that he seems to have trade value, i'm on the if the right trade comes along train. especially if he can net us a good young cf, someone who can patrol it for a while with good defense, and average offense, i'm good do it. bubba isn't the answer neither is pierre or damon. bradley doesn't seem likely, and i don't know much about wilkerson. i'm not sure if the mariners want prospects but from what i read they don't. i pray cash is just waiting a lil to see if he can score anything else from seatlle. but screw it pull the trigger this week cash!!

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 02:43 AM
The Mariners are believed to have interest in obtaining Carl Pavano from the Yankees, but the latest word from New York is that the Yankees aren't looking to trade him despite a disappointing season. Pavano, for whom Seattle made a strong bid as a free agent last year, still has three years and $30 million left on his contract. The Yankees are looking for a center fielder, and Jeremy Reed could be a fit for them.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002665020_wintermeet05.html

Looks like this isn't just a rumor made up in NY.

Yankeeah
12-05-05, 07:46 AM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002665020_wintermeet05.html

Looks like this isn't just a rumor made up in NY.

Maybe Cash is playing hardball.

bobbymagee
12-05-05, 07:53 AM
Do we have enough pitchers with health issues? Wright, Pavano, Johnson, Wang, Mussina. How can we trade any one of these guys(Johnson is untouchable)? The only healthy ones are unproven, but had productive 05 for us, Small and Chacon. Why do these rumors get started. To me they make little sense.

ShaneTravis
12-05-05, 10:09 AM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002665020_wintermeet05.html

Looks like this isn't just a rumor made up in NY.

This seems like something the Yanks would look into.

Reed tore it up in the Whitesox minors, is only 24, makes the ML minimum.
Pavano is owed 30 million. Probably Washburn or Millwood would command 10 million per season. The Yanks could always reinvest that 30 million into pitching.

How is Reed projected? Does he have a high upside? Could he play Center in Yankee stadium? Safeco is huge so maybe he can transition to the Bronx.

His numbers are a little underwhelming but he is just 24 and has not played a full season in the Bigs.

ComeBackShane47
12-05-05, 10:17 AM
Reed is exactly what the Yankees need: Young, cheap, and plays solid defense, plus his potential is so much higher than Bubba or Pierre. Pavano was a huge mistake (and I like the guy), however a deal for Reed would really help put this franchise back on track

indianyanksfan
12-05-05, 11:46 AM
i'd rather wait till the non-tendered list comes out.

and i am opposed to having pavano traded. i dont wnat wright replacing him and i dont want to spend millions on millwood or washburn, both of whom are boras clients.

we got good prospects. just need a stop gap that's all.

thegift711
12-05-05, 11:59 AM
If the asking price on Milwood is roughly 30 mil for 3 years... well that is what Pavano has left on his deal. No money gained or lost...

Again, that is IF that is Milwood's price. He is a fine alternative to Pavano, and then Pavano could be dealt for a CF.

ShaneTravis
12-05-05, 12:47 PM
If the asking price on Milwood is roughly 30 mil for 3 years... well that is what Pavano has left on his deal. No money gained or lost...

Again, that is IF that is Milwood's price. He is a fine alternative to Pavano, and then Pavano could be dealt for a CF.

Well, this is a reach but trying to see if these are related.


http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mariners/story/5377574p-4863271c.html

"According to sources, the Mariners are making a starting pitcher their priority. But a lack of elite free-agent arms means the pickings could be slim, perhaps forcing Seattle to pursue a trade."

Hence the Mariners calling Yanks about Pavano.

"As for free agents, Cleveland’s Kevin Millwood – or, more appropriately, his agent, Scott Boras – figures to be a popular target this week. That could help the Mariners, considering Boras and Bavasi have a strong working relationship, especially after Seattle signed Beltre, a Boras client, to a five-year, $64 million deal last December."

The article talks of Seattle not spending too much money---which is why they would like to make a trade for pitching with not too much money committed.

BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 12:53 PM
If they want Pavano so bad maybe they'd be willing to throw in Raphael Soriano for some money?

ShaneTravis
12-05-05, 12:53 PM
From Sunday December 4th --- www.nypost.com

Our favorite George King....

"Boras is said to be looking for a five-year deal worth $45 million for Washburn, and he wants five years and $10 million each for right-handers Weaver and Millwood."

If the Yanks want to dump Pavano and his 30 million and pick up Reed if would be possible to reinvest that into a Millwood deal or Washburn.

Byrd went for 7-8 million. Washburn probably 9-10 and Millwood 10-11 million per year.

Alot of hypotheticals but not all that farfetched.

gurgie
12-05-05, 12:57 PM
I would jump at reed for pavano. by all acounts reed is a great defender and he is young as well paying for pavano is no problem

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-05-05, 01:30 PM
Lets see Reed for Pavano will be great, unless Cash is just trying to get more than he is an idiot for turning this down

The Dynasty
12-05-05, 01:30 PM
If they want Pavano so bad maybe they'd be willing to throw in Raphael Soriano for some money?

This is my wish:
Mariners get: Pavano, mid-level prospect, and cash
Yankees get: Reed, Putz, and Soriano :drool:

MisterNovember
12-05-05, 01:31 PM
Lets see Reed for Pavano will be great, unless Cash is just trying to get more than he is an idiot for turning this down

Not necessarily. If the Mariners wanted Cashman to pick up most of Pavano's salary, then he was right to turn it down. Jeremy Reed is a nice young player, but not worth $9-$10M a year.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 05:16 PM
theyre both injury prone mediocre pitchers who had one fluke good season in their contract years. wright "proved he could pitch in october" too or did you forget the 97 postseason ?? i mean really if jose mesa doesnt blow game 7 in 97 then wright has a ring too.

It is apples and oranges to compare what Jaret Wright die 8 years ago vs. what Pavano did 2 years ago. 1997 has no relevancy whatsover whereas while 2003 is not largely so, it is much more so, considering Jaret Wright has been useless in all but one year since.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 05:18 PM
Depends on when you think his shoulder starting bothering him. 3.10 ERA in April. ;)

That's the question and I think anyone betting on which pitcher will have the better 2006, logic falls fully on Pavano.


4.77 ERA is decent?

indianyanksfan
12-05-05, 05:35 PM
That's the question and I think anyone betting on which pitcher will have the better 2006, logic falls fully on Pavano.

i agree and i dont think itl's worthwhile to trade him if we have to replace him with long term contracts for washburn or millwood.

plus let's see what an injury free and mel free pavano can do for us next year. :)

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 05:40 PM
i agree and i dont think itl's worthwhile to trade him if we have to replace him with long term contracts for washburn or millwood.

plus let's see what an injury free and mel free pavano can do for us next year. :)

And people have to realize. Money IS an issue. To trade Pavano and sign a Washburn or Millwood would mean that for that spot in the rotation, we are likely to pay just south of $20 million a year. $10 million for Millwood/Washburn, probably $4-5 million per for Pavano in a trade and the luxury tax we pay as a result. To trade Pavano with that in mind makes zero sense. Plan B is throw Wright in there and has he has fully proven in his career, he cannot be depended on.

BJG
12-05-05, 05:41 PM
i agree and i dont think itl's worthwhile to trade him if we have to replace him with long term contracts for washburn or millwood.

plus let's see what an injury free and mel free pavano can do for us next year. :)

Pavano has been injury free once in his 8 year career (2004). Even in 2003, when he pitched a lot, he spent much of the year adjusting after surgery. There is no longer any reason to expect him to not be hurt.

I Love Wang
12-05-05, 05:43 PM
If we get a good offer to trade Pavano, I'd do it. But I wouldn't pay his way anywhere. I'd let Wright pitch in the 5th spot until he hurts himself, and then hope that I can patch together a decent fifth starter between DeSalvo, Sturtze, Henn, DePaula, Karstens, and whatever else.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 05:49 PM
If we get a good offer to trade Pavano, I'd do it. But I wouldn't pay his way anywhere. I'd let Wright pitch in the 5th spot until he hurts himself, and then hope that I can patch together a decent fifth starter between DeSalvo, Sturtze, Henn, DePaula, Karstens, and whatever else.

I don't see us getting rid of Pavano unless we eat a sizable portion of his contract and even then, I wouldn't expect a great deal in return. But if we did find a suitable trade partner, I would do a trade and start Wright over signing any of the mediocre FA pitchers on the market.

I Love Wang
12-05-05, 05:52 PM
I don't see us getting rid of Pavano unless we eat a sizable portion of his contract and even then, I wouldn't expect a great deal in return. But if we did find a suitable trade partner, I would do a trade and start Wright over signing any of the mediocre FA pitchers on the market.

Considering that Jeff Weaver is asking for a $50 million dollar deal, anyone selling starting pitching should be at an advantage. Pavano, at 3 years/$30mil is a ................ing bargain right now. I wouldn't pay a dime on that deal. If we can't find someone willing to work with that, then they can go pound sand.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 06:01 PM
Considering that Jeff Weaver is asking for a $50 million dollar deal, anyone selling starting pitching should be at an advantage. Pavano, at 3 years/$30mil is a ................ing bargain right now. I wouldn't pay a dime on that deal. If we can't find someone willing to work with that, then they can go pound sand.

Boras can ask for anything, but getting is a different story, but I agree with the point. I wouldn't pay a dime either, no way, but I still think they would either make that a part of the deal if we get anything of substance back.

gdn
12-05-05, 06:08 PM
Based on rumors coming out of the winter meetings, it seems that Boras is asking for 5/50 and 5/45 for Millwood and Washburn, IIRC.

Pavano should net us quite a bit at those rates.

nyg02005
12-05-05, 06:11 PM
the disadvantage for other teams acquiring pavano is that he can demand a trade after the 2006 season and the team has no choice but to trade him.

ring403
12-05-05, 07:12 PM
Based on rumors coming out of the winter meetings, it seems that Boras is asking for 5/50 and 5/45 for Millwood and Washburn, IIRC.

Pavano should net us quite a bit at those rates.
Burnett looks to be a Blue Jay, and the other FA starter options are dwindling for the Mariners:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/250852_mari05ww.html?source=mypi

A.J. Burnett, one of the most coveted pitchers on the free agent market, is expected to sign a lucrative five-year contract in the next 24 to 48 hours. And it will not be with the Mariners.

Barring a late push from the St. Louis Cardinals or Washington Nationals, Burnett is likely to sign a five-year deal with the Toronto Blue Jays, worth near $50 million, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. Burnett is expected to arrive here on Tuesday, with an announcement likely to come shortly thereafter.

The deal will affect Seattle in a number of ways:
# Seattle is likely to increase its pursuit of Kevin Millwood, perhaps the most appealing starter remaining on the market.

# If the Cardinals miss on Burnett, they would be more apt to retain Matt Morris, their own free agent and another player of interest to the Mariners. That would be another factor tipping Seattle toward Millwood.

Ultimately, though, the chain reaction could send the Mariners to the trade market. They have inquired about Yankees right-hander Carl Pavano this offseason, and he remains available for the right offer.

ppa79
12-05-05, 07:14 PM
the disadvantage for other teams acquiring pavano is that he can demand a trade after the 2006 season and the team has no choice but to trade him.

Seattle doesn't have to trade him, they can call his buff and see if he'll leave 20M dollars.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 07:49 PM
Burnett looks to be a Blue Jay, and the other FA starter options are dwindling for the Mariners:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/250852_mari05ww.html?source=mypi

Interesting. Under the "right" circumstances, I would not be opposed to trading Pavano, but as I Love Wang said above, we don't pay $1 of his deal and we get back a package that makes sense for us.

indianyanksfan
12-05-05, 07:59 PM
Interesting. Under the "right" circumstances, I would not be opposed to trading Pavano, but as I Love Wang said above, we don't pay $1 of his deal and we get back a package that makes sense for us.

my question is who replaces him? that's probably what cash is thinking also.

why not just sign patterson if he's non-tendered.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 08:08 PM
my question is who replaces him? that's probably what cash is thinking also.

why not just sign patterson if he's non-tendered.

And that's why I would rather not trade Pavano. I think if an option doesn't come before 12/20, it certainly will come then.

ojo
12-05-05, 08:10 PM
i'd deal pavano for reed straight up in a HEARTBEAT.

Clemens831
12-05-05, 08:29 PM
my question is who replaces him? that's probably what cash is thinking also.

why not just sign patterson if he's non-tendered.

There are a few viable starters out there. Washburn and Millwood, for instance, are the first 2 that come to mind. Can't argue that either of them would be a "worse" fit for the Yankees.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 08:33 PM
There are a few viable starters out there. Washburn and Millwood, for instance, are the first 2 that come to mind. Can't argue that either of them would be a "worse" fit for the Yankees.

And if they do get the $9-10 mil they are looking for and the Yanks do have to eat a sizable portion of Pavano's deal, they are looking at trading away a player that is, maybe, a bit worse than those two but spending between $15-20 million a year to do it (the salaries and luxury taxes included). If the Yanks do trade Pavano, it better not include one dollar going out the door and I'd look internally before overpaying for a decent at best pitcher.

38Special
12-05-05, 08:39 PM
I want Reed and a reliever like Soriano for Pavano :)

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 08:44 PM
I want Reed and a reliever like Soriano for Pavano :)

That is something I would do.

Zimmers' Helmet
12-05-05, 08:44 PM
Seattle wants Pavano?
The Yanks want Ichiro...is it possible?

laststop3641
12-05-05, 08:47 PM
Seattle wants Pavano?
The Yanks want Ichiro...is it possible?
would never happen

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 08:47 PM
Seattle wants Pavano?
The Yanks want Ichiro...is it possible?

Probably if we also included Wang and Cano.

WrightIsWrong
12-05-05, 08:57 PM
There was a report over the weekend about the Yanks losing some serious scratch($50-85 million) & even though I believe MLB owners are not truthful in how they calculate their income/losses,one has to believe that if there is a shred of truth to this report,the days of the Yanks paying teams to assume their mistakes should be coming to an end.Whether the Yanks are losing coin or not,paying teams to take contracts is a practice that needs to stop.

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 08:59 PM
There was a report over the weekend about the Yanks losing some serious scratch($50-85 million) & even though I believe MLB owners are not truthful in how they calculate their income/losses,one has to believe that if there is a shred of truth to this report,the days of the Yanks paying teams to assume their mistakes should be coming to an end.Whether the Yanks are losing coin or not,paying teams to take contracts is a practice that needs to stop.

I agree, unless it's the most unusual of circumstances, I don't believe in paying other teams to take our players on.

nyg02005
12-05-05, 09:02 PM
Seattle doesn't have to trade him, they can call his buff and see if he'll leave 20M dollars.

the way SP is being paid. He will get that easily in the market and even more. He is still young. The question is if seattle give up good players like reed are they willing to bluff?

Zimmers' Helmet
12-05-05, 09:04 PM
would never happen

Not straight up, but perhaps as part of a bigger deal. Of course the Yankees would have to sweeten the pot; but I don't discount the possibility - especially after the A-Rod trade.

Never say never.

WrightIsWrong
12-05-05, 09:05 PM
the way SP is being paid. He will get that easily in the market and even more. He is still young.

I agree;Look at Javier Vazquez how he's forced the D-Backs hand.

Clemens831
12-05-05, 09:16 PM
And if they do get the $9-10 mil they are looking for and the Yanks do have to eat a sizable portion of Pavano's deal, they are looking at trading away a player that is, maybe, a bit worse than those two but spending between $15-20 million a year to do it (the salaries and luxury taxes included). If the Yanks do trade Pavano, it better not include one dollar going out the door and I'd look internally before overpaying for a decent at best pitcher.

Oh, I agree. The Yanks can't trade Pavano unless Seattle takes on a big part of his contract. As far as replacements go...Millwood would likely get the $9-10 per year he's looking for...but I doubt Washburn would. Still, I'm not opposed to going with what we've got anyhow, as SP is an area we at least have a bit of depth in.

JeffWeaverFan
12-05-05, 09:17 PM
How is Reed projected? Does he have a high upside? Could he play Center in Yankee stadium? Safeco is huge so maybe he can transition to the Bronx.

Reed is one of the very best defensive CFers in baseball. And given his minor league numbers, one would have to expect a great improvement from last season offensively.

BJG
12-05-05, 09:19 PM
I agree;Look at Javier Vazquez how he's forced the D-Backs hand.

Did he? The D-Backs have a nice little bidding war going for him. They'll get something nice or they'll keep him, as he certainly doesn't appear prepared to walk away from the cash.

The system isn't designed to punish a team when this happens. If Pavano were to demand a trade and he had a good year, he'd get the Mariners at least back what they gave up if not more. If he has a bad year, he's unlikely to walk away from the cash.

nyg02005
12-05-05, 09:28 PM
Did he? The D-Backs have a nice little bidding war going for him. They'll get something nice or they'll keep him, as he certainly doesn't appear prepared to walk away from the cash.

The system isn't designed to punish a team when this happens. If Pavano were to demand a trade and he had a good year, he'd get the Mariners at least back what they gave up if not more. If he has a bad year, he's unlikely to walk away from the cash.

If he has a good year, it will handicap the mariners in the sense that other teams knows he will walk away. If he has bad yr, he will still earn the money bec. he is still young. Look at Byrd. The only drawback is if he gets injured.

The dbacks does not have a bidding war, otherwise javy is gone.

BJG
12-05-05, 09:32 PM
If he has a good year, it will handicap the mariners in the sense that other teams knows he will walk away. If he has bad yr, he will still earn the money bec. he is still young. Look at Byrd. The only drawback is if he gets injured.

The dbacks does not have a bidding war, otherwise javy is gone.

If he has a good year, I'm fairly certain more than one team will be interested and that the Mariners could get at least what they gave up. It's not that hard. Teams make moves to get a player who they don't think would sign with them if he were a free agent all of the time. A shorter commitment than he would get in FA would also be appealing.

Oh, and there are around 8 or 10 teams who have at least called about Vazquez. They'll get a good deal for him.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:40 PM
There was a report over the weekend about the Yanks losing some serious scratch($50-85 million) & even though I believe MLB owners are not truthful in how they calculate their income/losses,one has to believe that if there is a shred of truth to this report,the days of the Yanks paying teams to assume their mistakes should be coming to an end.Whether the Yanks are losing coin or not,paying teams to take contracts is a practice that needs to stop.

Maybe this was put out there by the Yankees to get people over their "spend at all cost" image. The timing is certainly suspect...

nyg02005
12-05-05, 09:40 PM
If he has a good year, I'm fairly certain more than one team will be interested and that the Mariners could get at least what they gave up. It's not that hard. Teams make moves to get a player who they don't think would sign with them if he were a free agent all of the time. A shorter commitment than he would get in FA would also be appealing.

Oh, and there are around 8 or 10 teams who have at least called about Vazquez. They'll get a good deal for him.

I still believe that the mariners will not get the value same as that of reed (a young MLB CF) and if they give up another player then it is much harder

JeffWeaverFan
12-05-05, 09:48 PM
Not necessarily. If the Mariners wanted Cashman to pick up most of Pavano's salary, then he was right to turn it down. Jeremy Reed is a nice young player, but not worth $9-$10M a year.
Well, there's no way that they asked us to pay the whole salary. My guess is it wouldn't be more than 50% of it.

JeffWeaverFan
12-05-05, 09:54 PM
why not just sign patterson if he's non-tendered.
Patterson won't be non-tendered.

NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 11:38 PM
Patterson won't be non-tendered.
I'd have to agree on that, I think he will get traded before he gets non-tendered.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-05-05, 11:40 PM
"The Tacoma News Tribune is also reporting that the Mariners have offered Kevin Millwood $44 million over four years and says the two sides could be close to a deal."

www.rotoworld.com

Let's see what shakes out here. If this doesn't happen for Seattle, we know a couple of things. They have the budget to absorb all of Pavano's deal, and they are despirate for starting pitching.

mrbawm
12-05-05, 11:44 PM
I want Reed and a reliever like Soriano for Pavano :)


If this can be pulled off we'd be in a much better position for the future.

NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 11:45 PM
If this can be pulled off we'd be in a much better position for the future. We certainly would be, we would be set in center for a while and Soriano is young as well. It would be a very good trade, but I doubt that it happens.

NYDCYankee
12-06-05, 12:15 AM
"The Tacoma News Tribune is also reporting that the Mariners have offered Kevin Millwood $44 million over four years and says the two sides could be close to a deal."

www.rotoworld.com

Let's see what shakes out here. If this doesn't happen for Seattle, we know a couple of things. They have the budget to absorb all of Pavano's deal, and they are despirate for starting pitching.


Wow. I can see Milwood jumping on that. I doubt he would get that much dough from any other team.

MisterNovember
12-06-05, 12:15 AM
Burnett looks to be a Blue Jay, and the other FA starter options are dwindling for the Mariners:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/250852_mari05ww.html?source=mypi

Considering that the Cardinals were looking to throw some serious dough at Burnett, is it possible that maybe they would take a look at Pavano? I'm not sure if there's a fit there for a trade (can't see them parting with Jim Edmonds), but maybe there's a potential for a three way deal or something.

Yankee Clipper
12-06-05, 12:17 AM
Considering that the Cardinals were looking to throw some serious dough at Burnett, is it possible that maybe they would take a look at Pavano? I'm not sure if there's a fit there for a trade (can't see them parting with Jim Edmonds), but maybe there's a potential for a three way deal or something.

I'd rather target Yadier Molina, but they have no reason to part with him unless we wow them with a trade proposal. But I can dream...

JeffWeaverFan
12-06-05, 12:52 AM
"The Tacoma News Tribune is also reporting that the Mariners have offered Kevin Millwood $44 million over four years and says the two sides could be close to a deal."

www.rotoworld.com

Let's see what shakes out here. If this doesn't happen for Seattle, we know a couple of things. They have the budget to absorb all of Pavano's deal, and they are despirate for starting pitching.
Crap. :mad:

Cuban Connection
12-06-05, 01:24 AM
Seattle offering Reed is music to my ears. Cashman has to be holding out for a reliever aside from reed. But darn it i want jeremy reed in pinstripes!
The Cashman had his chance back in June 2004.

If Seattle signs Millwood, would they stillbe interested in Pavano?

JeffWeaverFan
12-06-05, 01:57 AM
The Cashman had his chance back in June 2004.

If Seattle signs Millwood, would they stillbe interested in Pavano?
I think Moose got injured so we decided to not trade Contreras then. In hindsight, it's really too bad.

dabomb2045
12-06-05, 01:59 AM
too bad we cant trade Pavano....what a horrible signing

BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-06-05, 05:43 AM
If we give them Pavano and say 15 million in cash for Soriano and Reed then Seattle gets Pavano for 5 mill a year and we essentially pay Reed and Soriano 2.5 mill a year each for the next 3 years. It would be hard for Seattle to turn that down and a bargain for us if either player works out. Soriano is still what? a year from arbitration eligibility. Does the injury effect that?

ICEBERG18
12-06-05, 10:58 AM
Gammons insider:

"Detroit breakdown
Dec 6 - Javier Vazquez exercised his right to decline a trade to Detroit, thus killing what the Diamondbacks thought would be a blockbuster for center fielder Curtis Granderson and right-hander Joel Zumaya, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports. Arizona GM Josh Byrnes says eight to 10 teams continued to have serious interest in Vazquez, The Arizona Republic reports. Any team interested in Vazquez would have to pick up the remainder of his salary, about $12M for each of the next two seasons."


I wonder if the Tigers would offer that to the Yankees for Pavano. ;)

If Cashman was offered that trade for Pavano and i found it he turned it down, Just put me in jail now..

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 10:59 AM
Gammons insider:

"Detroit breakdown
Dec 6 - Javier Vazquez exercised his right to decline a trade to Detroit, thus killing what the Diamondbacks thought would be a blockbuster for center fielder Curtis Granderson and right-hander Joel Zumaya, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports. Arizona GM Josh Byrnes says eight to 10 teams continued to have serious interest in Vazquez, The Arizona Republic reports. Any team interested in Vazquez would have to pick up the remainder of his salary, about $12M for each of the next two seasons."


I wonder if the Tigers would offer that to the Yankees for Pavano. ;)
interesting ...

38Special
12-06-05, 11:08 AM
Gammons insider:

"Detroit breakdown
Dec 6 - Javier Vazquez exercised his right to decline a trade to Detroit, thus killing what the Diamondbacks thought would be a blockbuster for center fielder Curtis Granderson and right-hander Joel Zumaya, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports. Arizona GM Josh Byrnes says eight to 10 teams continued to have serious interest in Vazquez, The Arizona Republic reports. Any team interested in Vazquez would have to pick up the remainder of his salary, about $12M for each of the next two seasons."


I wonder if the Tigers would offer that to the Yankees for Pavano. ;)

If Cashman was offered that trade for Pavano and i found it he turned it down, Just put me in jail now..

Vazquez has more value than Pavano. Therefore id take Granderson for Pavano :)

ICEBERG18
12-06-05, 11:15 AM
Vazquez has more value than Pavano. Therefore id take Granderson for Pavano :)

Don't settle, you never know. :D

sundstrom
12-06-05, 11:47 AM
i would definately do that deal for pavano

23and2
12-06-05, 05:29 PM
With the FA pitchers coming off the market (Burnett, Byrd, Millwood to Seattle?), we should soon hear more rumblings about trades involving Pavano.

NYDCYankee
12-06-05, 05:57 PM
[COLOR=Red]If Cashman was offered that trade for Pavano and i found it he turned it down, Just put me in jail now..

I will join you in the next cell.

SoCal Pinstriper
12-06-05, 06:11 PM
interesting ......and colorful! :)
But seriously, that would be a great deal for Carl.

hlrjr
12-06-05, 09:21 PM
With the FA pitchers coming off the market (Burnett, Byrd, Millwood to Seattle?), we should soon hear more rumblings about trades involving Pavano.

Agreed.

Cuban Connection
12-06-05, 10:03 PM
I think Moose got injured so we decided to not trade Contreras then. In hindsight, it's really too bad.

IIRC, it was Brown (can you believe that?) The White Sox were looking at Contreras as a potential closer (Koch was falling apart....again) but the Yanks turned down the trade because one of their SP's went down.

Regardless, the Sox used Reed to get Garcia, and got Contreras eventually.

I couldn't be any happier. :gulp:

ring403
12-10-05, 08:15 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/59347.htm
"They said it's not out of question they would look into signing a free agent if they can move one of their starters," an AL executive said of the Yankees.

With free agents Kevin Millwood, Jarrod Washburn, Matt Morris and Jeff Weaver remaining on the market, the best fit is Washburn, a 31-year-old lefty who was 8-8 with a 3.20 ERA in 29 starts.

The Yankees would like Roger Clemens back, but he hasn't given them an indication he wants to pitch, or if he would be ready to work by Opening Day.

The Yanks have seven starters, but that's counting Aaron Small, who will open the season in the bullpen.

That leaves Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Chien-Ming Wang, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright and Shawn Chacon.

Johnson and Mussina have no-trade clauses, Wang is untouchable, Chacon is relatively inexpensive and Wright's health history and salary ($7 million a year) make him difficult to move.

That means Pavano could be shopped, though teams have to be wary of a right shoulder problem that forced him appear in only 17 games and none after mid-June. And there is $30 million and three years remaining.

Still, Seattle has an interest and the Phillies talked about him at the Winter Meetings.

noneckwilliams
12-10-05, 11:46 AM
Roger, Bernie, Cairo...it just never freaking ends with the same old crap.

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-10-05, 12:03 PM
If we can get anything of value for Pavano(like Jeremy Reed) we should do it, he is a bad pitcher(had one good year and is rarely healthy) and has low k rates

gold23
12-10-05, 12:12 PM
If Cashman pulls more than Reed out of Seattle for Pavano, I would be amazed and thrilled. As of now, I'll settle for that deal straight up, and the signing of Washburn. Those two moves would absolutely make this off-season a success. Solve the CF problem with a tremendous defender who has long been considered a huge prospect on the offensive side, and improve the rotation with the upgrade of Washburn over Pavano. I like Pavano....but Jeremy Reed is an extremely talented young player.