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RobRiv
11-29-05, 09:59 PM
Heeeere's Johnny! or not.
We know Damon's demands: We know he's got the seven year itch, an angel hair spaghetti arm, Demi Moore's hair, and bonafide lead-off hitter credentials.

We know he can catch, you know, maybe not as good as Brad Pitt (see Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Jolie for starters) - but certainly better than all the other movie guys you can think of.

We know he can find the short-cut to our front porch in right.
We know he is represented by a slithering anaconda of an agent, who could talk a hungry dog off the back of a meat wagon.
We know Steinbrenner has a special place for Johnny in his trophy case that has been gathering dust.

So now the question to you, the Yankee GMs before me: what do you do about Damon? Pass? Play? Is Johnny Da' mon for us? What would be your best offer?

WebsterMulligan
11-29-05, 10:02 PM
Three years maximum, at 9-10 million per year tops, provided no other CF options are available.

Otherwise, let him go elsewhere.

IncredibleByNature
11-29-05, 10:03 PM
No thanks. He wants too much money over too many years. He isn't worth it.

Yanks21
11-29-05, 10:06 PM
3 years, $30-$36 million. Only as a last resort. Premier lead-off hitter and still has good range. However, it's Johnny Damon...

TheGameEpisode2
11-29-05, 10:09 PM
3 years, $30-$36 million. Only as a last resort. Premier lead-off hitter and still has good range. However, it's Johnny Damon...

If Giles accepts the Blue Jays offer (5 years for 55 million! Jeez!) I don't think Damon would settle for three years.

But like you said, for the last resort I'd take Damon for three years...

Jace
11-29-05, 10:12 PM
I dont want him here just because Torre will probably buy into the hype and bat him first, giving more at-bats to Johnny Damon than Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, and Hideki Matsui (all of whom are better hitters). Not that Damon would be a really bad leadoff hitter, but Jeter is better by a good margin, and I just would rather better hitters got those at-bats.

Plus I think his decline, especially in the field, will happen more quickly than many people think.

I Love Wang
11-29-05, 10:14 PM
I would never give Damon 10 million a year. And I wouldn't lead him off, either.

RobRiv
11-29-05, 10:15 PM
I would never give Damon 10 million a year. And I wouldn't lead him off, either.

How many years, Wang?

I Love Wang
11-29-05, 10:16 PM
How many years, Wang?

3 year, 21mil. If he won't take that, screw him.

SoCal Pinstriper
11-29-05, 10:17 PM
Three years maximum, at 9-10 million per year tops, provided no other CF options are available.

Otherwise, let him go elsewhere.Exactly right. Although feigning interest to drive the price up for Boston would be a good move.

RobRiv
11-29-05, 10:19 PM
Wang,

I'd love to hear Cashman present your offer to Boras! Imagine the stunned silence... and then the profanities!

I Love Wang
11-29-05, 10:21 PM
Wang,

I'd love to hear Cashman present your offer to Boras! Imagine the stunned silence... and then the profanities!

Damon isn't really all that good. At this point in his career, he's a mediocre fielder, and he has a career .277 EqA. He's never topped .300.

surge511
11-29-05, 10:23 PM
Wang,

I'd love to hear Cashman present your offer to Boras! Imagine the stunned silence... and then the profanities!

Funny but true, especially since I've heard Boras is already pissed off that the Yankees won't bite on the 7/84 deal he wants...

NewEraYanks2527
11-29-05, 10:26 PM
I'd give him 3/30 with incentives and an option for a 4th year but thats it. Sorry Johnny, 7/84 is pretty much ridiculous.

BobbyMurcerFan
11-29-05, 10:26 PM
I don't want him. $, yr's (both his and length of contract), roid buzz. Nope, pass.

Zimmers' Helmet
11-29-05, 10:27 PM
Any G.M. that gives Damon anything more than 4 years/$44 million should not only be fired; but banned from the game along with Pete Rose.

yanksphan
11-29-05, 10:28 PM
Any G.M. that gives Damon anything more than 4 years/$44 million should not only be fired; but banned from the game along with Pete Rose.

Damon's probably wishing Toronto needed a CF right now...;)

WebsterMulligan
11-29-05, 10:30 PM
Damon's probably wishing Toronto needed a CF right now...;)

Or perhaps the Mets.

knickfan23
11-29-05, 10:35 PM
3 year, 21mil. If he won't take that, screw him.


I would like to know how Damon is only worth 7 million, while JD Drew is worth 11 million.

I would just like someone to explain that one.

RobRiv
11-29-05, 10:37 PM
I would have told Boras a long time ago: not interested in Damon. In some respects it has to do with baseball business, but my disinterest in Damon has more to do with me being a Yankees fan.

For many reasons, I had no problem welcoming Boggs and Clemens (as well as lesser Red Sox). But it's a different deal with Damon. I respect his talents, (however diminished they may be) I just don't like the idea of him on the team.

yanksphan
11-29-05, 10:37 PM
I would like to know how Damon is only worth 7 million, while JD Drew is worth 11 million.

I would just like someone to explain that one. Maybe the Dodger's GM, Paul DePodesta can explain...oh wait...;)

knickfan23
11-29-05, 10:51 PM
Maybe the Dodger's GM, Paul DePodesta can explain...oh wait...;)


He wont be able to know unless he's writing blogs or appearing on ESPN.

But because of that signing, its reasonable to conclude that some team would be able to pony up for Damon. For Boras, he has a thought in his head and has told Damon what he will probably get. He figures, if I ask for the moon, the team I'm dealing with will end up settling for the number I already had planned out. To me, its perfect negotiating.

I'll say I want 7 for 84 (what, do you actually think he is going to publicly ask for less?) and you only want to go 3 years and a max of 4 for 32. Boras will say, "ok, lets go for 4 years for 43, but give me a mutual option for the 5th year."

Team says "deal". But what they dont know is that Boras has won again because he was able to inflate the value of his client's contract while making it appear that the team has won the negotiations. In actuality, Boras has already figured this all out and simply uses the desperation of the team against them. Pretty shrewd strategy if you ask me.

A team will bite because 98% of them do. I have a feeling the Yanks are that team.

Dooley Womack
11-29-05, 10:58 PM
7 years at 13 million per and then renege.

I Love Wang
11-29-05, 10:59 PM
I would like to know how Damon is only worth 7 million, while JD Drew is worth 11 million.

I would just like someone to explain that one.

If Drew is healthy, he's a much, much, better player than Damon. Also, I didn't sign him.

DiMaggio5CF
11-29-05, 11:00 PM
Let him sign elsewhere, and then when he's done with that contract, give him seven years at around $15 million per.

No, seriously. It would have to be a contract that the Yankees can live with in the short term and that would give Damon what he wants if he performs well.

And since I'm a big fan of incentive contracts . . .

Year 1: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 2: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 3: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 4: $10 million option or $3 million buyout
Year 5: $10 million option or $2 million buyout
Year 6: $10 million option or $1 million buyout
Any of the option years can become guaranteed by reaching certain numbers the previous year.

Boras would probably never go for that, but that's all I'd do.

Worst-case scenario: 3 years, $24 million -- at least fair market value

Best-case scenario: 6 years, $60 million -- probably more than he'll get anywhere else

There's no reason not to pay a guy if he puts up the numbers. But a club should be afforded a safeguard if he doesn't.

But like I said, Boras would probably never go for that -- because he likely knows that Damon has no shot at being that good that long. But on the other hand, if nobody gives him a ridiculous contract, that may be their best option.

knickfan23
11-29-05, 11:02 PM
If Drew is healthy, he's a much, much, better player than Damon. Also, I didn't sign him.


When has he been healthy in his career. The man has played 7 seasons of 100 or more games and has never played a full season. In fact, in his contract year, he missed 17 games. And in 2 other years, he missed 27 games a piece.

He's never played a full season in 7 years.

I Love Wang
11-29-05, 11:03 PM
When has he been healthy in his career. The man has played 7 seasons of 100 or more games and has never played a full season. In fact, in his contract year, he missed 17 games. And in 2 other years, he missed 27 games a piece.

He's never played a full season in 7 years.

Well, I didn't say giving him $55 million dollars was a good idea. But he's still a much better player than Damon.

knickfan23
11-29-05, 11:07 PM
Let him sign elsewhere, and then when he's done with that contract, give him seven years at around $15 million per.

No, seriously. It would have to be a contract that the Yankees can live with in the short term and that would give Damon what he wants if he performs well.

And since I'm a big fan of incentive contracts . . .

Year 1: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 2: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 3: $7 million with incentives to bring the contract to $10 million
Year 4: $10 million option or $3 million buyout
Year 5: $10 million option or $2 million buyout
Year 6: $10 million option or $1 million buyout
Any of the option years can become guaranteed by reaching certain numbers the previous year.

Boras would probably never go for that, but that's all I'd do.

Worst-case scenario: 3 years, $24 million -- at least fair market value

Best-case scenario: 6 years, $60 million -- probably more than he'll get anywhere else

There's no reason not to pay a guy if he puts up the numbers. But a club should be afforded a safeguard if he doesn't.

But like I said, Boras would probably never go for that -- because he likely knows that Damon has no shot at being that good that long. But on the other hand, if nobody gives him a ridiculous contract, that may be their best option.

D5CF,

How you have it laid out plays right into my theory. Boras knows what the best case is and what the worst case is already drawn up in his head. Which leads a middle ground of 4 years with an option for a 5th at about 44 million, which is what Boras' plan is all along. He knows Damon isnt a 10 million player. At best, he is 8-9 million. But he got Damon an extra 3 million per year just by this tactic.

27IsNext
11-29-05, 11:12 PM
Heeeere's Johnny!

And this would be my cue to cry like a baby.

knickfan23
11-29-05, 11:12 PM
Well, I didn't say giving him $55 million dollars was a good idea. But he's still a much better player than Damon.


I dont dispute that, but the fact that he signed for that amount shoots up the market for everyone else. The 7 million player now gets 9 because a player like Drew signs for the money he does.

Another example of this is in the relievers market. Wagner and Ryan getting paid Rivera money. What is to make relievers who were going to originally get 3 million, now ask for 4.5-5 million. Think about it, Kyle F'n Farnsworth is about to get 4-5 million a year. This has to be a joke. Now I can see why Tom Gordon is asking for 3 years and about 5 or even 6 million. The money is certainly out there to be had.

JeffWeaverFan
11-29-05, 11:16 PM
I would never give Damon 10 million a year. And I wouldn't lead him off, either.
I think he's actually a pretty good leadoff hitter. But, the fact is he's not as good as Jeter is as a leadoff hitter. He's still allright.

I'd offer him 2/$18. Which means I don't want him. I'd prefer Jacque Jones to Damon (when you consider cost).

StatenIslandYankee
11-29-05, 11:17 PM
3/4 Years and I'll take it. Anything over 4 and he can take a hike.

ieddyi
11-29-05, 11:19 PM
Exactly right. Although feigning interest to drive the price up for Boston would be a good move.

True, people complain about players using us to drive their price up for other teams, but what is the downside for us. If they're not gonna come here for our good offer anyway, why not drive the price up for the Jays, sawx or whoever?

TommyK8
11-29-05, 11:21 PM
I could be proved wrong, but I don't think the Yankees will go all out for Damon. Here's my reasoning. While Damon can run everything down, he has perhaps the worst outfield arm in baseball. I would love to see Damon and Bernie Williams in a throwing contest. The lack of an arm would be even more of a liability in the vastness of Yankee Stadium's centerfield. Next, the Yanks didn't like the last 2 years of Bernie's contract, so they will not want to go more than 3 years, 4 max. In order to knock the Red Sox out of the water, they would have to add that 5th year, and the contract would have to have an annual value higher than Boston's offer. Damon just bought a house in the Boston suburbs last year and his wife is a broadcaster for NESN. He is on record as saying he wants to stay in Boston, where he is a cult hero. The only way I see Damon leaving Boston is if someone blows the Red Sox offer away.

By citing his poor throwing arm, I don't want it to seem like I am knocking Damon. His arm is his only major weakness. He is still fast, can steal 20 bases a year, he is among the leaders in all of baseball in pitches seen per at bat, he has driven in 169 runs from the leadoff spot in the last 2 years, he plays everyday every year, and scores over 100 runs every year. He is one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball.

JDPNYY
11-29-05, 11:22 PM
True, people complain about players using us to drive their price up for other teams, but what is the downside for us. If they're not gonna come here for our good offer anyway, why not drive the price up for the Jays, sawx or whoever?

Call up the Boston Globe. Tell them you are a source close to the Yankees thinking and tell them the Yankees are about to offer Johnny Caveman a 7 year deal worth 75 million.

AMYanks
11-29-05, 11:23 PM
By the way, I just noticed the witty thread title. Congrats on that.

ring403
11-29-05, 11:39 PM
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=115669
BOSTON -- The beard and hair will have to go, but free agent Johnny Damon obviously is keen on striking a deal with the Yankees in case negotiations with the Red Sox do not work out.
Thats why Damon's agent Scott Boras sent the Yankees a booklet entitled "New York Yankees Leadoff Analysis," a three-page statistical look at how much better the Yankees and current leadoff hitter Derek Jeter could be, if Damon were batting leadoff and Jeter went back to the No. 2 hole, where he thrived with Chuck Knoblauch hitting leadoff from 1998 through 2001.
Yankees manager Brian Cashman was not initially wowed by the information.
"I cannot agree that Jeter is better hitting second rather than first, because he does both very well," Cashman said in an e-mail yesterday.

Kulish29
11-29-05, 11:48 PM
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=115669

It's so funny.

At the begining of the season it was, "If I cant get a contract from the Red Sox, I'll probably retire. I dont think I could ever play for the Yankees."

Now he's scrambling for a back up option because of his agent.

NYDCYankee
11-29-05, 11:52 PM
It's so funny.

At the begining of the season it was, "If I cant get a contract from the Red Sox, I'll probably retire. I dont think I could ever play for the Yankees."

Now he's scrambling for a back up option because of his agent.


Which leads to the question? Do the Sox want Damon back? I am not so sure they do. If that is the case I think that could really drive Damon's price down.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-29-05, 11:54 PM
200 billion dollars...

Dooley Womack
11-30-05, 12:01 AM
200 billion dollars...

And a luxury box. That should seal it, hopefully.

WebsterMulligan
11-30-05, 12:06 AM
It's so funny.

At the begining of the season it was, "If I cant get a contract from the Red Sox, I'll probably retire. I dont think I could ever play for the Yankees."

Now he's scrambling for a back up option because of his agent.

I remember that quote. :roflmao:

He'll play for the highest bidder. Hopefully, it will not be the Yankees.

Vin
11-30-05, 12:55 AM
The Sux offered Damon 3 years but his agent has so much pride that he wants 7 years. He's not young anymore and has a noodle arm, what the heck is Boras thinking. Be realistic

MiamiKat
11-30-05, 01:20 AM
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=115669
Tee hee hee.

Anyone can pull together a fancy Powerpoint presentation full of questionable assumptions, inapt hypotheticals and shaky forecasts. (Heck, I've done it myself for work countless times. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif )

Bless you, Cash, for not falling for Boras' bullsh*t and bluster.

DiMaggio5CF
11-30-05, 01:27 AM
Call up the Boston Globe. Tell them you are a source close to the Yankees thinking and tell them the Yankees are about to offer Johnny Caveman a 7 year deal worth 75 million.

You have to use one of those cool voice-changer things that they use in the movies though.

TheTinoMobile
11-30-05, 01:56 AM
For 7 years and 84 million dollars, I'd rather sign a college sprinter that also does high jump and long jump.. put him in CF, then cement 4 canons perfectly aligned with home 1st, 2nd, 3rd plates for him to fire after he catches the ball....or we could just sign Megaman... his arm is like a canon i hear.

look at his arm strength: http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/X4XSHOT.gif

and his amazing speed... http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/MEGAMANXR.gif

man he might even be faster than Tony Womack.....

Dooley Womack
11-30-05, 02:56 AM
For 7 years and 84 million dollars, I'd rather sign a college sprinter that also does high jump and long jump.. put him in CF, then cement 4 canons perfectly aligned with home 1st, 2nd, 3rd plates for him to fire after he catches the ball....or we could just sign Megaman... his arm is like a canon i hear.

look at his arm strength: http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/X4XSHOT.gif

and his amazing speed... http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/MEGAMANXR.gif

man he might even be faster than Tony Womack.....

:lol:

Looks like you've created a combo of Mondesi and Womack there.

NYDCYankee
11-30-05, 02:58 AM
Is Megaman available? I wonder if we could trade Skippy and Michael Kay to the cartoon world for him.

StatenIslandYankee
11-30-05, 03:12 AM
For 7 years and 84 million dollars, I'd rather sign a college sprinter that also does high jump and long jump.. put him in CF, then cement 4 canons perfectly aligned with home 1st, 2nd, 3rd plates for him to fire after he catches the ball....or we could just sign Megaman... his arm is like a canon i hear.

look at his arm strength: http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/X4XSHOT.gif

and his amazing speed... http://maxpages.com/files/mmx/MEGAMANXR.gif

man he might even be faster than Tony Womack.....
ROFLMAO!!!!!!

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:22 AM
Tee hee hee.

Anyone can pull together a fancy Powerpoint presentation full of questionable assumptions, inapt hypotheticals and shaky forecasts. (Heck, I've done it myself for work countless times. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif )

Bless you, Cash, for not falling for Boras' bullsh*t and bluster.

IMO Cashman is hellbent on not getting involved with Damon. He's scouring every other CF possibility (including going into next sesaon with Bubba in CF). The wildcard here is that if the pursuit of a CFer drags on well past the winter meetings then I believe George and Randy Levine will start agitating for Damon. I bet Boras is trying like hell to get Randy involoved in this thing. If you start hearing Levine's name ("Agent Scott Boras spoke with Yankee team President Randy Levine yesterday about superstar CFer Johnny Damon...") then Damon will be with the Yankees next year. At that point Cashman should quit.

Yankeeah
11-30-05, 07:40 AM
IMO Cashman is hellbent on not getting involved with Damon. He's scouring every other CF possibility (including going into next sesaon with Bubba in CF). The wildcard here is that if the pursuit of a CFer drags on well past the winter meetings then I believe George and Randy Levine will start agitating for Damon. I bet Boras is trying like hell to get Randy involoved in this thing. If you start hearing Levine's name ("Agent Scott Boras spoke with Yankee team President Randy Levine yesterday about superstar CFer Johnny Damon...") then Damon will be with the Yankees next year. At that point Cashman should quit.

Damon will sign with some team for like 7 years $110 and screw up the market even more so.

yankeebot
11-30-05, 07:43 AM
Damon will sign with some team for like 7 years $110 and screw up the market even more so.
Who would give him that? Is there really even a lot of interest in Damon outside NY or Boston?

RobRiv
11-30-05, 07:44 AM
IMO Cashman is hellbent on not getting involved with Damon. He's scouring every other CF possibility (including going into next sesaon with Bubba in CF). The wildcard here is that if the pursuit of a CFer drags on well past the winter meetings then I believe George and Randy Levine will start agitating for Damon. I bet Boras is trying like hell to get Randy involoved in this thing. If you start hearing Levine's name ("Agent Scott Boras spoke with Yankee team President Randy Levine yesterday about superstar CFer Johnny Damon...") then Damon will be with the Yankees next year. At that point Cashman should quit.

Right on, Noneck. Despite Cashman's apparent disinterest in Damon, the Boras tentacles will keep tickling Tampa to keep the Yankees in the picture, and Damon's demands in outer space. I hope this doesn't turn into a frontoffice battle between Cashman's clout, and Steinbrenner's starstruck impluses.

ppa79
11-30-05, 07:45 AM
I would give him 2 years max.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:54 AM
Right on, Noneck. Despite Cashman's apparent disinterest in Damon, the Boras tentacles will keep tickling Tampa to keep the Yankees in the picture, and Damon's demands in outer space. I hope this doesn't turn into a frontoffice battle between Cashman's clout, and Steinbrenner's starstruck impluses.

Bob Klapisch was on radio here in Boston yesterday dancing like a monkey for all the local yokels. You know - "wait 'til Steinbrenner explodes...back page...Mets...Red Sox land Beckett...yadda yadda yadda." The locals love to hear this stuff even if it isn't true. According to Klap the Yanks would love Damon at 4 years and maybe 5. I don't buy it.

The Tampons will want Damon - Cashman won't. People like Klap and Buster Olney are too busy doing their "George is a monster/Yankees are disfunctional" schtick to notice that there may be a legitimate change in the chain of command/decision making process of this FO

Cashman's email comments regarding Jeter's leadoff ability versus Damon's shows me he knows what he's doing. Damon will be a test for Cashman's newfound freedom.

RobRiv
11-30-05, 08:18 AM
[QUOTE=noneckwilliams]Bob Klapisch was on radio here in Boston yesterday dancing like a monkey for all the local yokels. You know - "wait 'til Steinbrenner explodes...back page...Mets...Red Sox land Beckett...yadda yadda yadda." The locals love to hear this stuff even if it isn't true. According to Klap the Yanks would love Damon at 4 years and maybe 5. I don't buy it. QUOTE]

That's why I hope the Yanks will soon make it clear that they don't want Damon. I understand why they might want to keep their options open, and play their cards close to the vest, but I'd prefer if the Yanks told Boras straight up, "not interested in Damon, next." This would drive Boras and the Boston radioheads nuts and prove that all the Yankee execs are on the same page.

silverdsl
11-30-05, 09:08 AM
Seven years for Damon is ridiculous. Insane. Even worse if Boras is pushing for a no-trade as well, though with a seven year, big money deal, whatever team signs him would probably be stuck with him even without a no-trade. Unless Damon is willing to sign only a two or three year deal for under $10 million a year, and even then I wouldn't be overly thrilled with him being signed, I think the Yankees should stay well away from him.

-Deborah

NewEraYanks2527
11-30-05, 09:12 AM
If Megaman is available then I dont see how we can not sign him. Wait a minute, as many have pointed out he is fast but that doesn't necessarily mean he can catch, as that is the argument against Juan Pierre.

Dooley Womack
11-30-05, 09:15 AM
[QUOTE=noneckwilliams]Bob Klapisch was on radio here in Boston yesterday dancing like a monkey for all the local yokels. You know - "wait 'til Steinbrenner explodes...back page...Mets...Red Sox land Beckett...yadda yadda yadda." The locals love to hear this stuff even if it isn't true. According to Klap the Yanks would love Damon at 4 years and maybe 5. I don't buy it. QUOTE]

That's why I hope the Yanks will soon make it clear that they don't want Damon. I understand why they might want to keep their options open, and play their cards close to the vest, but I'd prefer if the Yanks told Boras straight up, "not interested in Damon, next." This would drive Boras and the Boston radioheads nuts and prove that all the Yankee execs are on the same page.

It's possible the Yanks are trying to drive up his price and # of years, knowing he'll end up in Boston. To that I say, "Keep pretending that you're interested."

StaceyRosie
11-30-05, 09:16 AM
I ................ing hope not

gdn
11-30-05, 09:17 AM
Move on, nothing to see here.

Johnny Who?

StatenIslandYankee
11-30-05, 09:20 AM
I would give him 2 years max.
He won't take 2. I think he's looking for 5 but asking for 7. I say 3 with a 4th year option is REALISTIC.

ojo
11-30-05, 09:34 AM
He won't take 2. I think he's looking for 5 but asking for 7. I say 3 with a 4th year option is REALISTIC.


i wouldn't want another 3 years of teams running at will on balls hit to CF.

Chairman-of-TheBoard
11-30-05, 09:44 AM
Damon is old and won't accept anything less than 6 years, which if we bite, would guarantee we would have our next Bernie Williams whom we can watch seriously decline over the last 4 years of the contract. Woo-f'in-hoo. GET YOUNGER IN CF!!!

sugmasterflex
11-30-05, 10:11 AM
0 yrs/0M. Take it or leave it.

nyctalopia
11-30-05, 10:38 AM
Cashman's interview quotes are getting funnier and funnier. He's completely free to tell people they're idiots now, which I love. As for Damon, 3 years $27 million at most, IF and ONLY IF Wilkerson, Rowand, Michaels, Bradley, and Giles become unavailable AND Crosby admits he's been using steroids since he was 5 years old.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 10:39 AM
0 yrs/0M. Take it or leave it.

I like that.


Damon is old and won't accept anything less than 6 years, which if we bite, would guarantee we would have our next Bernie Williams whom we can watch seriously decline over the last 4 years of the contract. Woo-f'in-hoo. GET YOUNGER IN CF!!!

Damon in Pinstripes would end up like Bernie - but without the goodwill. I think Damon would get hooted out of Yankee Stadium.

ryanthe13th
11-30-05, 10:40 AM
I'm down with the proposed MegaMan deal. If we don't get him, we could always call up Sonic the Hedgehog. He might not have the greatest arm, but he sure is fast.

Yankee Bulldawg
11-30-05, 10:45 AM
Mario and Luigi anyone?

goin for 27
11-30-05, 10:50 AM
Damon isn't really all that good. At this point in his career, he's a mediocre fielder, and he has a career .277 EqA. He's never topped .300.

I disagree. Damon has no arm. However, he still has excellent range, and catches everything he gets to.

Don't know why you focused on EqA. Jeter, for example has a career EqA of .279, though I think he is very valuable at the plate.

Damon was 4th in the AL in batting average.
4th in runs scored
5th in hits
19th in OBP
25th in total bases
22nd in number of pitches seen

The guys is an upper echelon CF'er. Right now, Bubba Crosby is penciled in at CF.

I would do 3 years $30 Million in a minute. I would not go longer than 3 years, but I would potentially go to $33 Million.

I know people don't like him because he is the face of the Sox, but I don't care. I want #27, and he is a great option in CF. For all the people who want Jeter to lead off? Fine, bat Damon second. Pitchers will have 24 pitches in the 1st inning with no one out.

Crazy to say he is not very good, even dumber to say he should be a last resort.

I cannot stomach entering the season with Bubba Crosby in CF.

PittsburghYankeeFan
11-30-05, 11:09 AM
I disagree. Damon has no arm. However, he still has excellent range, and catches everything he gets to.

Don't know why you focused on EqA. Jeter, for example has a career EqA of .279, though I think he is very valuable at the plate.

Damon was 4th in the AL in batting average.
4th in runs scored
5th in hits
19th in OBP
25th in total bases
22nd in number of pitches seen

The guys is an upper echelon CF'er. Right now, Bubba Crosby is penciled in at CF.

I would do 3 years $30 Million in a minute. I would not go longer than 3 years, but I would potentially go to $33 Million.

I know people don't like him because he is the face of the Sox, but I don't care. I want #27, and he is a great option in CF. For all the people who want Jeter to lead off? Fine, bat Damon second. Pitchers will have 24 pitches in the 1st inning with no one out.

Crazy to say he is not very good, even dumber to say he should be a last resort.

I cannot stomach entering the season with Bubba Crosby in CF.


Finally, some sense on this topic.

Damon is still a decent CF and a more than decent hitter. Plus, it would be a bigtime Sox loss to lose him at this point.

Anything more that $10-11 million per year for 3 years with a club option 4th would be foolish.

Let Boras agitate all he wants--7 years ain't happening.

Bubba is an OK choice for a stopgap year or so until someone big and young comes on the market. Not my first choice, but I could live with it.

I also could live with a performance clause/behavior clause laden 2 year contract to Milton Bradley when he gets non-tendered in 3 weeks.

Jace
11-30-05, 11:10 AM
Don't know why you focused on EqA. Jeter, for example has a career EqA of .279, though I think he is very valuable at the plate.


Derek Jeter's career EqA is .301.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/jeterde01.shtml

RobRiv
11-30-05, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=PittsburghYankeeFan]Finally, some sense on this topic.

Damon is still a decent CF and a more than decent hitter. Plus, it would be a bigtime Sox loss to lose him at this point.

Anything more that $10-11 million per year for 3 years with a club option 4th would be foolish.

Let Boras agitate all he wants--7 years ain't happening. QUOTE

The Red Sox would be very very lucky to get Damon for the package you suggest (which is less than half of what Damon is asking for), no way would he come to the Yanks for 33 mill over 3 years. That's why I suggest the Yanks turn their backs on Damon as if he does not exist.

whalers
11-30-05, 11:36 AM
Damon was 4th in the AL in batting average.
4th in runs scored
5th in hits
19th in OBP
25th in total bases
22nd in number of pitches seen

The guys is an upper echelon CF'er. Right now, Bubba Crosby is penciled in at CF.

I would do 3 years $30 Million in a minute. I would not go longer than 3 years, but I would potentially go to $33 Million.



Out of those 5 stats you put up I am pretty sure that Jeter ranks higher in all but one, stolen bases. When you say upper echelon of CF'ers I will agree if you are looking at his offensive production but his defense really is not upper echelon by any stretch of the imagination. You might even be able to argue that Bubba is a better defender. If the Yankees could grab him for the deal you suggest I would bite but thats not happening. To sign Damon to anything longer than 3 yrs would be a TERRIBLE decison that I think Cashman won't make.

Yankee Steve
11-30-05, 12:00 PM
It is interesting that everyone feels that Damon in 4 or 5 years will be "old". The guy is 32 and won't be 33 until NEXT November. He is consistant and shows no signs of slowing down if you look at his stats. He is a pain in the neck to face from a pitcher's viewpoint. I wholeheartedly agree that he has no arm. I don't understand, however, why everyone seems to be so deadset against looking seriously at Damon as an option. It is not like we have the second coming of Dimag or Mantle waiting at the minor league level. What we need is better team speed, someone who will get on base and run down the balls in the gaps. Who does it favor to have Johnny Damon or not to have him? If the Sox have him, are they not a better team for it? If the Yanks have him, doesn't it make them a better team? I am not saying that I would sign him for the 7 years that Boras is supposedly looking for, but I would consider him for 5 years, if the dollars are not outrageous and we have no other viable options. To say you would prefer Bubba in CF for 2006 is ridiculous, in my opinion. Let's be realistic. This guy is a grinder, a hard nosed player that plays all out and is disruptive on the bases. He would clearly add to the possibility of attaining world championship status in 2006 and beyond. Forget you Red Sox predijice and be honest.

Tifoso
11-30-05, 12:03 PM
It is interesting that everyone feels that Damon in 4 or 5 years will be "old". The guy is 32 and won't be 33 until NEXT November. He is consistant and shows no signs of slowing down if you look at his stats. He is a pain in the neck to face from a pitcher's viewpoint. I wholeheartedly agree that he has no arm. I don't understand, however, why everyone seems to be so deadset against looking seriously at Damon as an option. It is not like we have the second coming of Dimag or Mantle waiting at the minor league level. What we need is better team speed, someone who will get on base and run down the balls in the gaps. Who does it favor to have Johnny Damon or not to have him? If the Sox have him, are they not a better team for it? If the Yanks have him, doesn't it make them a better team? I am not saying that I would sign him for the 7 years that Boras is supposedly looking for, but I would consider him for 5 years, if the dollars are not outrageous and we have no other viable options. To say you would prefer Bubba in CF for 2006 is ridiculous, in my opinion. Let's be realistic. This guy is a grinder, a hard nosed player that plays all out and is disruptive on the bases. He would clearly add to the possibility of attaining world championship status in 2006 and beyond. Forget you Red Sox predijice and be honest.


I tend to agree with you. I think a lot of the hate is the fact that he currently wears a RS uni.

Hey it wouldn't be the first time the Yanks picked up a good RS player--and I'm not (just) speaking about the Babe.

bigtimebomber
11-30-05, 12:46 PM
When has he been healthy in his career. The man has played 7 seasons of 100 or more games and has never played a full season. In fact, in his contract year, he missed 17 games. And in 2 other years, he missed 27 games a piece.

He's never played a full season in 7 years.
What, now the standard for durability is playing all 162 games? In ten full seasons this is how many games he's played:

145
146
161
145
159
155
154
145
150
148

He's never missed more than 17 games in any season. In ten years of very aggressive play, he's never been on the disabled list -- not even once. He has a downside, but durability isn't it.

Tifoso
11-30-05, 12:51 PM
What, now the standard for durability is playing all 162 games? In ten full seasons this is how many games he's played:

145
146
161
145
159
155
154
145
150
148

He's never missed more than 17 games in any season. In ten years of very aggressive play, he's never been on the disabled list -- not even once. He has a downside, but durability isn't it.

If we sign him, you think Jeter will accept batting second? BTW, the downside--his arm?

RobRiv
11-30-05, 01:08 PM
Not to knock Damon, (he's a fine ballplayer) but if you compare his career numbers to Bernie Williams, Johnny sure has a lot of work to do the next four or five years.

Bernie's played 15 seasons, Damon 11.

Bernie's lifetime average is .298, Damon's is .290 -- and consider that Bernie's averaged about .255 over the past three seasons.

Bernie's career On Base Percentage is .384, Damon .353
Bernie's career Slugging Percentage is .480, Damon .438
Bernie's driven in 1196 RBI, Damon 700. Johnny would have to drive in 100 runs per year for the next five years to match Bernie.
Bernie has 275 career homeruns, Damon 130. Even if Johnny doubles his current career homerun production over the next five years, he doesn't match Bernie.
Bernie has scored 1301 runs in his career, Damon 1073.

Add the fact that Bernie's a switch-hitting homegrown Yankee, holds the MLB postseason records for homeruns, RBI, runs scored, and games played, and it's clear how difficult it would be for Damon or any other free agent to fill Bernie's shoes, let alone replace him in our hearts.

NewEraYanks2527
11-30-05, 01:10 PM
Not to knock Damon, (he's a fine ballplayer) but if you compare his career numbers to Bernie Williams, Johnny sure has a lot of work to do the next four or five years.

Bernie's played 15 seasons, Damon 11.

Bernie's lifetime average is .298, Damon's is .290 -- and consider that Bernie's averaged about .255 over the past three seasons.

Bernie's career On Base Percentage is .384, Damon .353
Bernie's career Slugging Percentage is .480, Damon .438
Bernie's driven in 1196 RBI, Damon 700. Johnny would have to drive in 100 runs per year for the next five years to match Bernie.
Bernie has 275 career homeruns, Damon 130. Even if Johnny doubles his current career homerun production over the next five years, he doesn't match Bernie.
Bernie has scored 1301 runs in his career, Damon 1073.

Add the fact that Bernie's a switch-hitting homegrown Yankee, holds the MLB postseason records for homeruns, RBI, runs scored, and games played, and it's clear how difficult it would be for Damon or any other free agent to fill Bernie's shoes, let alone replace him in our hearts.
Well Damon is a different hitter, Bernie hit for power and average in his glory days, Damon is a leadoff hitter, he is supposed to get on base and score runs, so you really can't compare the two unless you compare them in that aspect. And as you can see Bernie played 4 more years and had 1301 runs scored to 1073.

I Love Wang
11-30-05, 01:10 PM
Not to knock Damon, (he's a fine ballplayer) but if you compare his career numbers to Bernie Williams, Johnny sure has a lot of work to do the next four or five years.

Bernie's played 15 seasons, Damon 11.

Bernie's lifetime average is .298, Damon's is .290 -- and consider that Bernie's averaged about .255 over the past three seasons.

Bernie's career On Base Percentage is .384, Damon .353
Bernie's career Slugging Percentage is .480, Damon .438
Bernie's driven in 1196 RBI, Damon 700. Johnny would have to drive in 100 runs per year for the next five years to match Bernie.
Bernie has 275 career homeruns, Damon 130. Even if Johnny doubles his current career homerun production over the next five years, he doesn't match Bernie.
Bernie has scored 1301 runs in his career, Damon 1073.

Add the fact that Bernie's a switch-hitting homegrown Yankee, holds the MLB postseason records for homeruns, RBI, runs scored, and games played, and it's clear how difficult it would be for Damon or any other free agent to fill Bernie's shoes, let alone replace him in our hearts.

You're right. Lets retire Bernie's position.

RobRiv
11-30-05, 01:18 PM
Well Damon is a different hitter, Bernie hit for power and average in his glory days, Damon is a leadoff hitter, he is supposed to get on base and score runs, so you really can't compare the two unless you compare them in that aspect. And as you can see Bernie played 4 more years and had 1301 runs scored to 1073.

Right, but Bernie wasn't a leadoff hitter. In theory, if he was, he would have scored a lot more. And Bernie's on-base percentage is still higher than Damon's (even including his seasons in decline)

RobRiv
11-30-05, 01:22 PM
You're right. Lets retire Bernie's position.


Start a thread, see where this suggestion goes!

BigBats
11-30-05, 02:05 PM
3 years, $25 million

He's a winner.

I Love Wang
11-30-05, 02:12 PM
He's a winner.

Is this a joke?

DJ27
11-30-05, 02:14 PM
3 years, $25 million

He's a winner.

Maybe to DH for us it would be worth it. Not to play CF.

DJ27
11-30-05, 02:14 PM
You're right. Lets retire Bernie's position.

:D :D :D :D

Very creative idea. Send it to Cash!

BigBats
11-30-05, 02:18 PM
Is this a joke?
He had some key hits in the 2004 ALCS...

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-30-05, 02:20 PM
Want reasons I dont want Damon alright lets get this part started

he is a .290/.353/.431 career wise player

That obp is about 30 points lower than Jeters career obp.

Last season he had the average(useless stat) but his power and obp went down, his defense is declining, he already has no arm and will start declining in 2006 and by 2007 will be below average defensively and offensively.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 02:43 PM
Want reasons I dont want Damon alright lets get this part started

he is a .290/.353/.431 career wise player

That obp is about 30 points lower than Jeters career obp.

Last season he had the average(useless stat) but his power and obp went down, his defense is declining, he already has no arm and will start declining in 2006 and by 2007 will be below average defensively and offensively.

Thank you. People talk about how he "catches everything" but I've seen him make plenty of boneheaded plays.

surge511
11-30-05, 02:45 PM
If we sign him, you think Jeter will accept batting second? BTW, the downside--his arm?

Are you serious? Why would Jeter argue batting second - that is where he has been his whole career. Plus, Torre might not bat Damon 1st, he could bat him 9th. He MIGHT do that, might not. If Damon batted 9th:

Jeter
Cano
Arod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
DH
Damon

That is a pretty serious lineup. I have no worries about Damon offensively, he is very effective and most likely will remain so. The only question is his defense. And for 3 years (maybe and option 4th), that is a stopgap, waiting for one of our prospects to develop into something big. I can wait 3 years while still getting a lot of production out of CF. If we sign Damon to a 3 year deal with a vesting 4th year option or team 4th year option, I would definitely do it.

I Love Wang
11-30-05, 02:48 PM
He had some key hits in the 2004 ALCS...

He hit .171/.216/.343 in that series. The only game he didn't completely suck in was game 7, which was a blowout. Johnny Damon is not a "winner."

surge511
11-30-05, 02:48 PM
Want reasons I dont want Damon alright lets get this part started

he is a .290/.353/.431 career wise player

That obp is about 30 points lower than Jeters career obp.

Last season he had the average(useless stat) but his power and obp went down, his defense is declining, he already has no arm and will start declining in 2006 and by 2007 will be below average defensively and offensively.

Ok look his defense is bad, we all know that. But why all the comparisons to the other Yankees? He is not one of them, he is Johnny Damon. There is no argument between Damon and Jeter - Jeter is clearly better. But Damon is still a very good player, and I would love to have him as a part of the offense - and fas a stopgap CFer, I could live with his defense.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-30-05, 04:50 PM
Ok look his defense is bad, we all know that. But why all the comparisons to the other Yankees? He is not one of them, he is Johnny Damon. There is no argument between Damon and Jeter - Jeter is clearly better. But Damon is still a very good player, and I would love to have him as a part of the offense - and fas a stopgap CFer, I could live with his defense.

The thing is why get Damon who will be signed to some huge deal when we can get the better hitter and better defender Milton Bradley when he is non-tendered for less money?

The Dynasty
11-30-05, 04:51 PM
The thing is why get Damon who will be signed to some huge deal when we can get the better hitter and better defender Milton Bradley when he is non-tendered for less money?

Exactly.

MB is a better fit for the Yanks.

goin for 27
11-30-05, 05:32 PM
The thing is why get Damon who will be signed to some huge deal when we can get the better hitter and better defender Milton Bradley when he is non-tendered for less money?

Because Bradley is a stick of dynamite that can go off at anytime? There is a big reason that there is little or no interest in Bradley by contending teams.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-30-05, 05:43 PM
Because Bradley is a stick of dynamite that can go off at anytime? There is a big reason that there is little or no interest in Bradley by contending teams.

He is an undervalued OF who had past anger issues and has reportedly got them under control, regardless the risk is worth it. Torre is supposed to be able to fix those guys and Bradley is younger and more talented than Damon. If you dont like Bradley then go for Wilkerson who is also better and younger than Damon.

Yankees13
11-30-05, 06:07 PM
Nevermind his poor defense, check his road stats, and just general career stats, he's not that good of a hitter, he's very overrated and would be an average hitter at best for us.

ring403
11-30-05, 06:47 PM
Because Bradley is a stick of dynamite that can go off at anytime? There is a big reason that there is little or no interest in Bradley by contending teams.Teams are waiting to see if he is non-tendered. There will be plenty of interest in him, if he is. There is ALWAYS interest in guys with talent, no matter what problems he's had.

goin for 27
11-30-05, 06:58 PM
Nevermind his poor defense, check his road stats, and just general career stats, he's not that good of a hitter, he's very overrated and would be an average hitter at best for us.

Damon?

What is your definition of "not that good a hitter"?

Damon led all MLB CF'ers in batting average last year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=avg&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

He was 4th in OBP, behind Edmonds, Brady Clark, and Griffey.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=onBasePct&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

He was 5th in OPS, behind Griffey, Jones, Edmonds, and Sizemore.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

You may not like the guy, but it is silly to say that he is not that good a hitter.

I am also curious as to why you think that he would be "average at best" in the Yankee lineup. The Yanks have a VERY strong lineup. I think that he would thrive in this lineup.

More than 3 years? Now that is a great argument as to why not sign him, saying he is not that good a hitter? Please.

ppa79
11-30-05, 07:00 PM
18M/2yrs take or leave it.

scull567
11-30-05, 07:08 PM
18M/2yrs take or leave it.

Johnny Damon isn't worth a 7 year deal but he's worth more than that.

ppa79
11-30-05, 07:09 PM
Johnny Damon isn't worth a 7 year deal but he's worth more than that.

Then let another team give it to him.

scull567
11-30-05, 07:18 PM
Then let another team give it to him.

Just asking, if it came down to either having Bubba Crosby be the full time CF in 2006 or giving Damon a 4 year deal - what would you rather see happen?

gdn
11-30-05, 07:20 PM
Just asking, if it came down to either having Bubba Crosby be the full time CF in 2006 or giving Damon a 4 year deal - what would you rather see happen?Bubba full time. I'll swallow the one year offensive drop off and bring up one of the kids in '07 rather than give Damon anything.

ppa79
11-30-05, 07:24 PM
Just asking, if it came down to either having Bubba Crosby be the full time CF in 2006 or giving Damon a 4 year deal - what would you rather see happen?

Bubba, no brainer.

AMYanks
11-30-05, 07:28 PM
Just asking, if it came down to either having Bubba Crosby be the full time CF in 2006 or giving Damon a 4 year deal - what would you rather see happen?

Bubba. But, luckily, it will be neither.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:31 PM
Ok But Damon is still a very good player, and I would love to have him as a part of the offense - and fas a stopgap CFer, I could live with his defense.


Damon wouldn't be a stopgap. He'd be a 4 or 5 year committment. He can't be had for anything less than that. He'd end up playing more years in Pinstripes than with the RS.

Cash doesn't want Damon. The only question is if he can come up with an alternative before the Tampa Faction demands Damon be given a 5 year deal.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:33 PM
Johnny Damon isn't worth a 7 year deal but he's worth more than that.

Than why is your team lowballing him with like 3/27? He has more value in Boston than anywhere yet the RS are lukewarm on the guy. Tells me alot.

ppa79
11-30-05, 07:34 PM
The only question is if he can come up with an alternative before the Tampa Faction demands Damon be given a 5 year deal.

The Tampa Faction needs to be sent away to Antartica.

CaptainThurman
11-30-05, 07:34 PM
If Damon becomes a Yankee, I will (after 50 years of being a devout Yankee fan) immediately become a Red Sox fan for the rest of my life.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:38 PM
The Tampa Faction needs to be sent away to Antartica.

I may be in the minority here but I'm quite happy with the way this offseason is playing out thus far. IMO the price to trade for a CFer will come down and Cash will get one if he is given the time. It sure beats last winter when I logged in here one night to find the Tampons has signed both Tony Womack and Jaret Wright.

PittsburghYankeeFan
11-30-05, 07:42 PM
[QUOTE=PittsburghYankeeFan]Finally, some sense on this topic.

Damon is still a decent CF and a more than decent hitter. Plus, it would be a bigtime Sox loss to lose him at this point.

Anything more that $10-11 million per year for 3 years with a club option 4th would be foolish.

Let Boras agitate all he wants--7 years ain't happening. QUOTE

The Red Sox would be very very lucky to get Damon for the package you suggest (which is less than half of what Damon is asking for), no way would he come to the Yanks for 33 mill over 3 years. That's why I suggest the Yanks turn their backs on Damon as if he does not exist.

The Sox opened with 3yrs and 27 million, which he rejected. I am not sure they will go much higher, although dumping Manny (which will happen this year, now that there is no Theo buffer between Manny and Lucchino) will give them some $$$ to play with.

This is my guess:

(1) I think the Yankees are waiting for what happens to Milton Bradley. If he is non-tendered, then the Yankees go for him. Torre can deal with him.

(2) If Bradley signs elsewhere or stays with LA, then they try to trade with Philles or Tampa Bay for one of their extra outfielders. My guess is that the trade price is too high, and these deals do not get done.

(3) Torii Hunter is still somewhere in the equation here as well. Twins want Cano and Wang, Cashman says no. A three way with another team (?Cardinals, Philles) may be in the offing, thus the rumors of "something big" that keep floating around between the Y's and those two teams.

(4) If all else fails, they keep Bubba in for one year. They get decent defense, a better bat than everyone thinks, and leave their options open for 2007 when there will be better CF pickings.

(5) We give Bubba grief, but this is the team that played Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer in LF and won the World Series with them. Twice.

Cashman is no dummy.

JeffWeaverFan
11-30-05, 07:46 PM
Are you serious? Why would Jeter argue batting second - that is where he has been his whole career. Plus, Torre might not bat Damon 1st, he could bat him 9th. He MIGHT do that, might not. If Damon batted 9th:

Jeter
Cano
Arod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
DH
Damon

Cano should be nowhere near the #2 spot. Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Damon, but I'd prefer Damon leading off with Jeter batting 2nd rather than Jeter and then Cano.

noneckwilliams
11-30-05, 07:47 PM
The there will be better CF pickings.

(5) We give Bubba grief, but this is the team that played Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer in LF and won the World Series with them. Twice.

Cashman is no dummy.

Don't forget - if the Yankees start the season with Crosby in CF (which I doubt will happen) it doesn't necessarily mean they will finish the season with Crosby in CF.

scull567
11-30-05, 08:02 PM
Than why is your team lowballing him with like 3/27? He has more value in Boston than anywhere yet the RS are lukewarm on the guy. Tells me alot.

I think you have to initially lowball when Boras is requesting a friggin 7 year deal. Yes Damon isnt in the prime of his career but seeing as how few good options there are for CF, I don't think a 3 x 10 offer with a 4th year option is that bad of a choice imo. I surely would want that over risking not making the playoffs by going with Adam Stern in center.

CelerinoSanchez
11-30-05, 08:02 PM
Write it down....Damon will be a Bomber. We'll love him as a leadoff hitter....at least for a couple of years before he declines badly. But, we'll hate his noodle arm. I hope he's not like Samson.

PittsburghYankeeFan
11-30-05, 08:08 PM
Write it down....Damon will be a Bomber. We'll love him as a leadoff hitter....at least for a couple of years before he declines badly. But, we'll hate his noodle arm. I hope he's not like Samson.

Man...clean shaven, hair cut short..who will recognize him?

ppa79
11-30-05, 08:22 PM
Write it down....Damon will be a Bomber. We'll love him as a leadoff hitter....at least for a couple of years before he declines badly. But, we'll hate his noodle arm. I hope he's not like Samson.

:-whistle-

AJW
11-30-05, 08:38 PM
Man...clean shaven, hair cut short..who will recognize him?

I will. He will have the same look as he did with KC and Oakland.

AJW
11-30-05, 08:39 PM
If Damon becomes a Yankee, I will (after 50 years of being a devout Yankee fan) immediately become a Red Sox fan for the rest of my life.

Come on. Get a life.

I Love Wang
11-30-05, 08:41 PM
I will. He will have the same look as he did with KC and Oakland.

And his first year in Boston. Damon didn't grow the beard until he was trying to hide the acne on his face from the steroids he was taking.

NewEraYanks2527
11-30-05, 08:44 PM
If Damon becomes a Yankee, I will (after 50 years of being a devout Yankee fan) immediately become a Red Sox fan for the rest of my life.
I ask this with the utmost respect and because I really want to know your rational behind it. Why would you do that over Johnny Damon? I mean there are some players that I would really hate to see on the team because of the type of person they are (Manny Ramirez and Kevin Millar come to mind) and players that have been on the team that boil my blood (Kevin Brown) but serioulsy why would Johnny Damon, a viable option for center field if the price is right, make you trade in your pinstripes for Red Sox?

PittsburghYankeeFan
11-30-05, 08:59 PM
And his first year in Boston. Damon didn't grow the beard until he was trying to hide the acne on his face from the steroids he was taking.

Interesting thought...

Dooley Womack
12-01-05, 12:18 AM
Thank you. People talk about how he "catches everything" but I've seen him make plenty of boneheaded plays.

The only thing that impresses me about him is his hustle - the same hustle that makes him appear to be a better player than he actually is. His arm is one of the worst in the majors and his range is nothing more than average. Also, when was the last time anyone's seen him stretch for ball over his head and catch it? Do his short arms prevent this?

nycdoc999
12-01-05, 08:39 AM
I agree with most on this thread. He'd be a reasonable player for us for the right length of time, which is 3 years and NOTHING more.

3y/30M. If it took a TEAM option for a 4th year to get it done, I'd consider it, but a TEAM option only - not a player option, and not one that vests with a ceretain numbers of games/at bats/etc.

He would allow us to rearrange the order, and can play CF adequately, but he can't throw, so teams will still go 1st to 3rd on us on every hit.

ShaneTravis
12-01-05, 09:15 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/01/sports/baseball/01yanks.html


"The Yankees seem prepared to keep Crosby as their nominal center fielder while monitoring Johnny Damon's status. The Yankees have no interest in signing Damon, a Boston Red Sox free agent, to the seven-year contract that Scott Boras, his agent, would like.

But if Damon remains unsigned deep into the off-season and his price falls into the three- or four-year range, the Yankees could become involved. The presence of Crosby as a viable option gives them the luxury of waiting."

surge511
12-01-05, 09:19 AM
Bubba full time. I'll swallow the one year offensive drop off and bring up one of the kids in '07 rather than give Damon anything.

And which kid is it that you would give the starting CF job to in 2007?

gdn
12-01-05, 09:20 AM
And which kid is it that you would give the starting CF job to in 2007?I think Melky might be ready by then.

ShaneTravis
12-01-05, 09:25 AM
NYtimes.com
"Yankees have no interest in Pierre if Florida continues to ask for second baseman Robinson Cano in return."

Rotoworld.com

"The Phillies asked the Yankees for Chien-Ming Wang in return for Jason Michaels, according to the New York Post.
Well, unlike everyone else, they didn't ask for Robinson Cano, too. The Yankees are still threatening to go into next season with Bubba Crosby in center field."

"Since Brian Giles turned down their superior offer to remain in San Diego, the Dodgers are reconsidering the idea of keeping Milton Bradley.
"At this point in time, I'm open-minded," GM Ned Colletti said. It's believed the A's and Cubs have some level of interest. Radio reports have indicated that the Cubs and Dodgers a Todd Walker-for-Bradley trade."


Seeing as how the price for any and all centerfielders at this point start with Wang or Cano or both....Yankee fans may have to brace themselves for the possibility of Damon. Bubba could very well start next year also but is it so far fetched that Cashman would go 4 years at 44 million for Damon?

I Love Wang
12-01-05, 09:26 AM
I can't imagine that Philly is going to stick with demanding Wang for Michaels. No one is going to give them something that valuable.

Yankees13
12-01-05, 09:27 AM
Damon?

What is your definition of "not that good a hitter"?

Damon led all MLB CF'ers in batting average last year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=avg&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

He was 4th in OBP, behind Edmonds, Brady Clark, and Griffey.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=onBasePct&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

He was 5th in OPS, behind Griffey, Jones, Edmonds, and Sizemore.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=cf

You may not like the guy, but it is silly to say that he is not that good a hitter.

I am also curious as to why you think that he would be "average at best" in the Yankee lineup. The Yanks have a VERY strong lineup. I think that he would thrive in this lineup.

More than 3 years? Now that is a great argument as to why not sign him, saying he is not that good a hitter? Please.
Have you seen his road stats? This year he hit 298/342/438. About league average. 2002-2004 it was 278/340/433. Again around league average. Before the last two years he was generally a 270-280 hitter, which is not great for someone with his average patience, and below average power. He is a clearly declining player, he displayed a large dropoff in the second half of 05, not just defensively (various dropped balls, people tagging up from 2nd and scoring), but offensively as well, batting 282/343/397 compared to his 343/386/473 first half. His offensive reputation is vastly overstated, mainly because of his career year in 2004, considering that the only other times he approached his 2004 numbers was in 99-00, it is clear that his 2004 is an outlier, when compared to his 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2005 performances. His career line is 290/353/431 good for a career ops+ of 102, thus supporting my assertion that he is an average hitter.
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ShaneTravis
12-01-05, 09:40 AM
I can't imagine that Philly is going to stick with demanding Wang for Michaels. No one is going to give them something that valuable.

I laughed at that this morning. I think the rest of GM's in baseball have been spoon fed from every media source that Wang,Cano,Hughes,Duncan are the only prospects the Yanks have. So be it Kotsay,Hunter,Pierre,Michaels,Cameron, a really really good BP cage.....they all start with those names.

Wilkerson,Michaels would be the best bet for the Yanks, I am optimistic that their price goes down.

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:01 PM
Just asking, if it came down to either having Bubba Crosby be the full time CF in 2006 or giving Damon a 4 year deal - what would you rather see happen?

bubba would hust us for one year, Damon would hurt us for 3 years(2 years at best) if he signed a 4 year deal

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:04 PM
I think you have to initially lowball when Boras is requesting a friggin 7 year deal. Yes Damon isnt in the prime of his career but seeing as how few good options there are for CF, I don't think a 3 x 10 offer with a 4th year option is that bad of a choice imo. I surely would want that over risking not making the playoffs by going with Adam Stern in center.

Wilkerson and Bradley are both better younger plays hitting and defense wise and they wont get paid nearly as much. Bradley is going to get non tendered likely and WIlkerson is available

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-01-05, 02:07 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/01/sports/baseball/01yanks.html


"The Yankees seem prepared to keep Crosby as their nominal center fielder while monitoring Johnny Damon's status. The Yankees have no interest in signing Damon, a Boston Red Sox free agent, to the seven-year contract that Scott Boras, his agent, would like.

But if Damon remains unsigned deep into the off-season and his price falls into the three- or four-year range, the Yankees could become involved. The presence of Crosby as a viable option gives them the luxury of waiting."

I really fricking hope that the Yanks arent considering Damon even if Boras goes down to 4 years. There are better younger and cheaper options. Maybe Cash is trying to keep his hand secret.

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 12:16 AM
http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20051205_05bbmeet.86ada98.html


Damon said last night that he expected his situation to be resolved in the next 10 days. There were unconfirmed reports last night that the Yankees had made Damon a three-year, $39-million offer.

ryanthe13th
12-05-05, 12:24 AM
Oh great :(

Mark19
12-05-05, 12:31 AM
http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20051205_05bbmeet.86ada98.html



Ugh, nasty

The most I'm willing to go on Damon is 2 years/$18 million

ryanthe13th
12-05-05, 12:35 AM
Ugh, nasty

The most I'm willing to go on Damon is 2 years/$18 million

It looks like the Yankee F.O. has just increased your offer by 1 year and about $20 Million if these reports are true.

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 12:36 AM
Well...well...hmmm...

Buzah!
12-05-05, 12:43 AM
I don't want this guy on the Yanks.

ryanthe13th
12-05-05, 12:46 AM
I don't want this guy on the Yanks.

You aren't the only one, but it looks like we're taking the 'Get Back At Boston' route again.

Yankeeah
12-05-05, 12:50 AM
I don't believe that it's a serious deal. Maybe to drive up the price for Boston?

macalpine7
12-05-05, 12:55 AM
Just say no to Damon ...

Snap731
12-05-05, 12:56 AM
Damon's already getting on my nerves and he's not even HERE yet.

jbauer2485
12-05-05, 01:06 AM
You aren't the only one, but it looks like we're taking the 'Get Back At Boston' route again.

I love that route.

ComeBackShane47
12-05-05, 01:17 AM
That is a whole lot of money to give to a guy, especially with the much cheaper optiosn out there now and much better options there will be next offseason

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 01:19 AM
That is a whole lot of money to give to a guy, especially with the much cheaper optiosn out there now and much better options there will be next offseason

Not that I am defending this move but I don't think signing Damon would preclude the Yankees from signing Andrew Jones or Torii Hunter next year. Let Sheff walk with his money at the end of the next year, slide Hideki to right, slide Damon and his noodle arm to left and then go after Jones for center.

27IsNext
12-05-05, 01:29 AM
Not that I am defending this move but I don't think signing Damon would preclude the Yankees from signing Andrew Jones or Torii Hunter next year. Let Sheff walk with his money at the end of the next year, slide Hideki to right, slide Damon and his noodle arm to left and then go after Jones for center.

Or we could get a guy like Wilkerson and wait for Brett Gardner to get ready, and eventually see if guys like Battle, Tabata, Jackson, Henry (assuming he moves to the OF) are going to be any good.

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 01:33 AM
Or we could get a guy like Wilkerson and wait for Brett Gardner to get ready, and eventually see guys like Battle, Tabata, Jackson, Henry (assuming he moves to the OF) are going to be any good.


Hey, I agree. I was just pointing out the fact that this would not preclude us from picking up one of the top flight CFers next year. Also, if we sign Damon to a three year deal that would be just about the time Tabata, Jackson and Henry are ready.

27IsNext
12-05-05, 01:38 AM
Although I think Andruw Jones is a great player, I don't want him for the huge amount of money he's going to require for his services. We're trying to get away from doing that sort of thing.

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 01:45 AM
Although I think Andruw Jones is a great player, I don't want him for the huge amount of money he's going to require for his services. We're trying to get away from doing that sort of thing.

Ok that is understandable and we don't need to debate that here. I was just trying to not to be all doom and gloom about Damon potentially coming here. If he does, I don't think he will play CF the whole time and hopefully just this year.

rivera,s cutter
12-05-05, 02:20 AM
Three years maximum, at 9-10 million per year tops, provided no other CF options are available.

Otherwise, let him go elsewhere.i agree with that assumption as well,7 years is to much and unrealistic

BobbyMurcerFan
12-05-05, 02:26 AM
I would like to know how Damon is only worth 7 million, while JD Drew is worth 11 million.

I would just like someone to explain that one.Nothing to explain. J.D. Drew is NOT worth 11 million.

BobbyMurcerFan
12-05-05, 02:27 AM
Not that I am defending this move but I don't think signing Damon would preclude the Yankees from signing Andrew Jones or Torii Hunter next year. Let Sheff walk with his money at the end of the next year, slide Hideki to right, slide Damon and his noodle arm to left and then go after Jones for center.Do you really believe Matsui has the arm to be an everyday RF'er??

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 02:30 AM
Do you really believe Matsui has the arm to be an everyday RF'er??

No, good point.

BobbyMurcerFan
12-05-05, 02:40 AM
Have you seen his road stats? This year he hit 298/342/438. About league average. 2002-2004 it was 278/340/433. Again around league average. Before the last two years he was generally a 270-280 hitter, which is not great for someone with his average patience, and below average power. He is a clearly declining player, he displayed a large dropoff in the second half of 05, not just defensively (various dropped balls, people tagging up from 2nd and scoring), but offensively as well, batting 282/343/397 compared to his 343/386/473 first half. His offensive reputation is vastly overstated, mainly because of his career year in 2004, considering that the only other times he approached his 2004 numbers was in 99-00, it is clear that his 2004 is an outlier, when compared to his 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2005 performances. His career line is 290/353/431 good for a career ops+ of 102, thus supporting my assertion that he is an average hitter.
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td>
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</td></tr></tbody> </table>I DON'T want the Yankees signing Damon. But to say he'd be an at best average hitter in our lineup is absurd. HE PLAYS CENTER FIELD. It's not a power position. Compared to other CF'ers Damon is a very good hitter. The guy hit .319 last season.

And our lineup happens to play in our stadium which happens to have our RF 315' porch which happens to benefit LF hitters which Johnny Damon happens to be.

jermfisher
12-05-05, 02:58 AM
Andruw Jones is not a free agent next year. He is signed through '07

NYDCYankee
12-05-05, 03:09 AM
Andruw Jones is not a free agent next year. He is signed through '07


Are you sure? The newspapers have been saying after 06.

Stan Musial
12-05-05, 03:58 AM
Damon would be a great option (if not for being a Red Sux) if the terms of the deal were right. I dont think anyone will give him a 7 year deal...nor a 6 year deal. Actually, if he gets a guaranteed 4 year with an option for 5 that would be too much, but likely someone will do it. I hope it isnt the Yanks, but rather the Sux that assume that albatross.

noneckwilliams
12-05-05, 06:35 AM
Ugh, nasty

The most I'm willing to go on Damon is 2 years/$18 million

I can't see the NYY being able to land Damon for 3 years. If he's going to settle for 3 years he'll just go back to Boston.

As a previous poster put it: offer to Damon 0 years/$0

YankeeStripes
12-05-05, 07:16 AM
I have a big problem with signing a 32 year old cf'er with a noodle for an arm whose numbers are declining. I fear he will try to be a power hitter in Yankee stadium and hit .250 with 14-17 hr. He also is not a good defender.

StatenIslandYankee
12-05-05, 07:42 AM
I don't want this guy on the Yanks.
It's either him or Juan Pierre.

effdamets
12-05-05, 07:58 AM
I don't think Damon or his agent (Scott Horse-Ass) are going to accept anything less, in money, than what he made last year, which I believe was 8.25 million.

I don't think Damon is the answer in center for the Yanks either. At this point, I don't know if there IS an answer. And anyway, I don't believe Damon could handle New York!

Eff him! I really want the Red Sox to give him the 7 years at whatever money, it doesn't matter. This way, when the guy is 37 years old and still has two years left on that contract, they will be strapped into it!

When are GM's going to realize that 5, 6, and 7 year contracts are for guys that are in their mid-twenties? Dumb-a$$es!

ieddyi
12-05-05, 07:58 AM
Rumor of 3/39 offer to Damon

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-05-05, 08:22 AM
Rumor of 3/39 offer to Damon

One of the facts of life in dealing with Scott Boras clients, never believe rumored deals coming from teams to one of his players. Boras is notorious for creating those enormous binders of information on players, and then after that he floats his pie in the sky wishes for his clients (the 10 year, $200 million for Beltran as an example last year). After that point, I believe that he starts leaking supposed offers from teams to the press to inspire interest from others. Think back a few years, remember that Arizona supposedly was going to give Bernie that $100 million offer because Buck was there? In reality, it was only the Yankees and Red Sox in on him. Years ago he was floating numbers from the Marlins for the catcher formerly known as Pudge Rodriguez, only to have him show up in Detroit. Boras has an uncanny ability to overstate his clients monitary value, seemingly start a bidding war, and always gets more than people think that his clients would have gotten. Watch Damon get a 4 year, $50 million from someone, Boras is a prick, but he gets his clients paid (whether they go to the right situation doesn't matter).

38Special
12-05-05, 08:29 AM
Are you sure? The newspapers have been saying after 06.
Scott said on WFAN that he has two years left.

silverdsl
12-05-05, 09:06 AM
And anyway, I don't believe Damon could handle New York!I think Damon could handle New York a lot better than a lot of other players. In Boston the media scrutiny is at least as intense if not worse than it is in New York, the fans are just about as demanding and hard on the players and he's familiar with what it takes to play in not only the post-season but in a World Series. If things like that don't prepare a player for playing in New York I don't know what would.

I'm not thrilled with the idea of the Yankees signing Damon because I'd like to see them get someone who is much stronger defensively in CF. However, it seems like they don't have a lot of options. So I could see it happening. If it does I just hope it's for three years and not seven.

-Deborah

NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 09:24 AM
I think Damon could handle New York a lot better than a lot of other players. In Boston the media scrutiny is at least as intense if not worse than it is in New York, the fans are just about as demanding and hard on the players and he's familiar with what it takes to play in not only the post-season but in a World Series. If things like that don't prepare a player for playing in New York I don't know what would.

-Deborah
I agree with you Deborah, I think Damon could handle the New York pressure just fine considering he played in Boston. I also think he would fit in just fine. However that doesn't mean I want him but maybe it isn't such a bad idea if his price is fairly reasonable and we wouldn't have to part with anyone that can potentially be a big contributer this year (e.g. Pavano) to get Damon. IF Damon does come aboard I will not like it but I will welcome him and cheer him as I do with every Yankee until they give me reason to do otherwise (Kevin Brown)

MattUNC2003
12-05-05, 09:27 AM
Are you sure? The newspapers have been saying after 06.


http://www.mlb4u.com/0708FA.html

Read down to CF's.

That site, www.mlb4u.com is pretty darn good at providing answers to all those questions that you just can't find anywhere else.

WebsterMulligan
12-05-05, 09:29 AM
One of the facts of life in dealing with Scott Boras clients, never believe rumored deals coming from teams to one of his players. Boras is notorious for creating those enormous binders of information on players, and then after that he floats his pie in the sky wishes for his clients (the 10 year, $200 million for Beltran as an example last year). After that point, I believe that he starts leaking supposed offers from teams to the press to inspire interest from others. Think back a few years, remember that Arizona supposedly was going to give Bernie that $100 million offer because Buck was there? In reality, it was only the Yankees and Red Sox in on him. Years ago he was floating numbers from the Marlins for the catcher formerly known as Pudge Rodriguez, only to have him show up in Detroit. Boras has an uncanny ability to overstate his clients monitary value, seemingly start a bidding war, and always gets more than people think that his clients would have gotten. Watch Damon get a 4 year, $50 million from someone, Boras is a prick, but he gets his clients paid (whether they go to the right situation doesn't matter).

Exactly. I suspect a "mystery" team or two will have sudden interst in signing Damon, in the near future.

MaximMan121
12-05-05, 10:03 AM
Honestly,I hate Johnny Damon.

I just don't like him. He's got books out which detail his dislike for the yankees, he's appeared on "queer eye", he has terrible facial hair and he hit that grand slam off of vazquez in game 4.

That being said, 3 years at 13 million a year, if it could be done, would be a very good deal for the yankees. This guy is a premiere hitter, as well as proven base stealer. He's quick enough to range CF in Yankee stadium (even if his arm isn't great) and if, by the end of his 3 years, he is declining, we can shift him to a corner spot. We have OF help coming from the minor leagues, it's just a matter of filling those spots till they're ready--and Damon would do just that. I'd much rather have gotten Giles. The Yankee in me would much rather have Bubba--but the math adds up to Damon being a good pickup at that price.

That being said, if this is our only offer, he'll be a Red Sox next year--and I'd be much happier if they oversigned him for, say, 5 years 60 Million.

Will

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 10:45 AM
I have a big problem with signing a 32 year old cf'er with a noodle for an arm whose numbers are declining. I fear he will try to be a power hitter in Yankee stadium and hit .250 with 14-17 hr. He also is not a good defender.
Have you seen Johnny Damon play? While it's true that his numbers will likely decline by the end of the next deal he signs, his numbers certainly aren't declining right now - his last two years have been above his career norm. He is also a very good defender.

noneckwilliams
12-05-05, 10:56 AM
Have you seen Johnny Damon play? While it's true that his numbers will likely decline by the end of the next deal he signs, his numbers certainly aren't declining right now - his last two years have been above his career norm. He is also a very good defender.


Keep him then.

TEPLimey
12-05-05, 11:00 AM
He is also a very good defender.

He'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 11:19 AM
Keep him then.
I would love to for three years. I hope people understand I'm not just being a fanboy here. Damon has just come off two of his best offensive years ever and played an excellent CF. The poster I was replying to simply was not correct.

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 11:21 AM
He'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.
Good line, haven't heard that one before. But care to actually provide something of substance when you post?

I assume you disagree with my based on Damon's bad arm? Because you certainly aren't looking at any other facts.

I can't think of any other reason you wouldn't agree that Damon is a good fielder, with excellent range, who happens to play in one of the toughest center fields in baseball between Manny and Nixon, two very poor defenders.

BJG
12-05-05, 11:32 AM
I can't think of any other reason you wouldn't agree that Damon is a good fielder, with excellent range, who happens to play in one of the toughest center fields in baseball between Manny and Nixon, two very poor defenders.


I think there's certainly some evidence that he had a down year.

Snatch Catch
12-05-05, 11:33 AM
Have you seen Johnny Damon play? While it's true that his numbers will likely decline by the end of the next deal he signs, his numbers certainly aren't declining right now - his last two years have been above his career norm. He is also a very good defender.

His best two year period was actually '99-'00, and BP had him at -4 FRAA last year, which doesn't factor in his arm.

Snatch Catch
12-05-05, 11:36 AM
Additionally, if you look at his WARP 1 numbers since '99, he has averaged a 5.6 over the past 7 years.

He was a 5.5 last year.

Jace
12-05-05, 11:37 AM
Good line, haven't heard that one before. But care to actually provide something of substance when you post?

I assume you disagree with my based on Damon's bad arm? Because you certainly aren't looking at any other facts.

I can't think of any other reason you wouldn't agree that Damon is a good fielder, with excellent range, who happens to play in one of the toughest center fields in baseball between Manny and Nixon, two very poor defenders.

I think people are referring more to what Damon will become in the next 3 years. Last year, even with his great first half, Damon was a substantially worse hitter than he was the year before, to the point where he was barely above average. His arm will not get any better. I believe his range stats last year were worse than the year before.

In any case his power seemed to decline a ton, making his game completely reliant on his speed, an ability which tends to decline a lot around Damon's age or a couple years older. I agree that Damon is overall still an above average centerfielder and may continue to be one next year, but I and the other posters sincerely doubt that he will be anything like that in 3 years.

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 11:42 AM
His best two year period was actually '99-'00, and BP had him at -4 FRAA last year, which doesn't factor in his arm.
Yeah, I am aware that he was superior in 99-00, which is why I was sure to say that he didn't have career years in 04-05.

Can you go over exactly how FRAA is determined? I'm not familiar with it. I know Damon had a range factor of 2.93 last year, which was better than all but I believe three other CFs. He handles CF very well.

jonnyc39
12-05-05, 11:44 AM
I agree that Damon is overall still an above average centerfielder and may continue to be one next year, but I and the other posters sincerely doubt that he will be anything like that in 3 years.
And I am in agreement with this as well.

CelerinoSanchez
12-05-05, 11:45 AM
Like I've said before, write it down, Damon will be wearing pinstripes next season. Probably 5 years for $60 million, which will be a huge mistake.

NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 11:50 AM
Like I've said before, write it down, Damon will be wearing pinstripes next season. Probably 5 years for $60 million, which will be a huge mistake. He will not be a Yankee for that contract, want to make a gentleman's wager on it?

TEPLimey
12-05-05, 12:12 PM
Good line, haven't heard that one before. But care to actually provide something of substance when you post?

I assume you disagree with my based on Damon's bad arm? Because you certainly aren't looking at any other facts.

I can't think of any other reason you wouldn't agree that Damon is a good fielder, with excellent range, who happens to play in one of the toughest center fields in baseball between Manny and Nixon, two very poor defenders.

We can start with his UZR and move on from there if you like

Wang's Groundballs
12-05-05, 12:20 PM
Using ZR, Damon was -9 last year and I have his arm as a -2. He's not a good defender anymore, and every fielding stat I've seen says this.

nyyanksfan20
12-05-05, 12:30 PM
Like I've said before, write it down, Damon will be wearing pinstripes next season. Probably 5 years for $60 million, which will be a huge mistake.

I seriously doubt that the only way he is a Yankee is for a 3 year deal maybe with a option for a 4th year.

Kulish29
12-05-05, 12:39 PM
Like I've said before, write it down, Damon will be wearing pinstripes next season. Probably 5 years for $60 million, which will be a huge mistake.

The Yankees would never do a deal for 5 years, 60 mil.

With the way the Yankees offseason is going right now, I dont know where you come up with that assumption. It makes no sense.

ComeBackShane47
12-05-05, 12:50 PM
Like I've said before, write it down, Damon will be wearing pinstripes next season. Probably 5 years for $60 million, which will be a huge mistake.


As everyone else has said, the Yankees really seem to have changed directions in thinking and no longer will cotnracts like that be handed out. In reality, the Yankees dont seem to be interested in Damon, but seem to just be driving up his price for the Sox.

Damon in pinstripes would be a dynamic disaster, seeing as how he would be put into the leadoff spot (not a good idea), he plays below average defense (that didnt work out well last year), and his skills are declining rapidly (sounds an awful lot like Bernie). Most agree that the Yanks should pass, and in the end I am pretty sure they will. I say pretty, because with The Boss you never can be too sure.

gdn
12-05-05, 01:10 PM
Ohhhhhhh. I get it. Johnny Da'mon = Johnny Da Man.
:doh:

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 04:39 PM
http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20051205_05bbmeet.86ada98.html
Damon said last night that he expected his situation to be resolved in the next 10 days. There were unconfirmed reports last night that the Yankees had made Damon a three-year, $39-million offer.

If there is any validity to this, this would be my once and best offer.

And let me edit, I don't even want to do this much.

Yankees13
12-05-05, 04:54 PM
I DON'T want the Yankees signing Damon. But to say he'd be an at best average hitter in our lineup is absurd. HE PLAYS CENTER FIELD. It's not a power position. Compared to other CF'ers Damon is a very good hitter. The guy hit .319 last season.

And our lineup happens to play in our stadium which happens to have our RF 315' porch which happens to benefit LF hitters which Johnny Damon happens to be.
He does play an offensively challenged position, but that doesn't change any of the stats I posted, and doesn't increase his value enough to merit signing him.
Since when is Damon a lefty pull power hitter?

kevk719
12-05-05, 07:56 PM
http://nyynews.com/

ESPN's Peter Gammons reported that the Yankees have offered Damon 3 years 42 million.

seems like alot to me...looks like the yanks really want him

YankeePride1967
12-05-05, 07:58 PM
http://nyynews.com/

ESPN's Peter Gammons reported that the Yankees have offered Damon 3 years 42 million.

seems like alot to me...looks like the yanks really want him

I'd be a bit leery about trusting that site.

Zimmers' Helmet
12-05-05, 08:21 PM
http://nyynews.com/

ESPN's Peter Gammons reported that the Yankees have offered Damon 3 years 42 million.

seems like alot to me...looks like the yanks really want him

Johnny Damon is not a $14 million-a-year ballplayer.
Mind you, it's Gammons so it's not like we're dealing with a reputable source here.

At age 32, I wouldn't mind seeing Damon batting leadoff and roaming CF for the Yankees; he's a good short term solution until a younger solution becomes available; but not for more than 2 years/$25 million.

YankeeFan1
12-05-05, 08:23 PM
http://nyynews.com/

ESPN's Peter Gammons reported that the Yankees have offered Damon 3 years 42 million.

seems like alot to me...looks like the yanks really want him If true, the Yankees have apparently lost their freaking minds.

38Special
12-05-05, 08:41 PM
I could care less about the Money. if they can get him for only 3 years, give him 20 million a year

ComeBackShane47
12-05-05, 09:01 PM
I believe Gammons said the Yankees COULD go as high as 3/$42 Million, NOT that they had gone that high.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:15 PM
Damon has played pretty well in Yankee Stadium, and he still will hit about .300-.310 next year. He is a reasonable gamble, but then the Yankees do not get any younger. Maybe the idea is to play him in CF for a year or so, and then make him a DH when they finally (1) bring up a CF, or (2) get one as a FA. I think the 3/42, if true, shows Damon we are serious but are unwilling to commit to a lot of years. It gets the negotiating ball rolling to where the argument is over time, not $$$...

Also, where are we getting this idea that he is in decline? His average has gone up every year since 2001 (he hit .316 last year) and he has averaged about 610 AB per season since 1998. His OPS has averaged about .800. He is only 32. Where are the indicators of his decline? Sure I wouldn't give him 7/84, but 3/40 or so with a vesting option year maybe...

The only issue is that it does not make the Yankees younger. I am also not so sure how interested his wife is in moving to NY, although isn't she an actress?

Yankees13
12-05-05, 09:20 PM
If the 3/42 is true, or if the Yankees are planning on it, I guess their idea is to blow him out of the water with money so he'll take 3 years. I don't want him period, I think he would be a dissapointment from an offensive standpoint, and I think he's in a sharp decline defensively.

ICEBERG18
12-05-05, 09:25 PM
If the 3/42 is true, or if the Yankees are planning on it, I guess their idea is to blow him out of the water with money so he'll take 3 years. I don't want him period, I think he would be a dissapointment from an offensive standpoint, and I think he's in a sharp decline defensively.

Boras even said that the Yankees offer to Damon rumor was bogus.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:26 PM
As everyone else has said, the Yankees really seem to have changed directions in thinking and no longer will cotnracts like that be handed out. In reality, the Yankees dont seem to be interested in Damon, but seem to just be driving up his price for the Sox.

Damon in pinstripes would be a dynamic disaster, seeing as how he would be put into the leadoff spot (not a good idea), he plays below average defense (that didnt work out well last year), and his skills are declining rapidly (sounds an awful lot like Bernie). Most agree that the Yanks should pass, and in the end I am pretty sure they will. I say pretty, because with The Boss you never can be too sure.

Where is the evidence that his skills are "declining rapidly"? He had shoulder problems for most of August and September, but he still hit .316.

Either make the Sawx pay 4/60 for him, or get him at 3/42 or so.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:27 PM
Boras even said that the Yankees offer to Damon rumor was bogus.

Like he's going to admit it one way or the other in the middle of a negotiation?

StatenIslandYankee
12-05-05, 09:28 PM
I would PREFER Damon for 3YR than Pierre for any.

ICEBERG18
12-05-05, 09:29 PM
Like he's going to admit it one way or the other in the middle of a negotiation?


I don't think he would deny a Yankee offer being out there, if it was true. A matter a fact, i don't think any agent would.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:30 PM
I think people are referring more to what Damon will become in the next 3 years. Last year, even with his great first half, Damon was a substantially worse hitter than he was the year before, to the point where he was barely above average. His arm will not get any better. I believe his range stats last year were worse than the year before.

In any case his power seemed to decline a ton, making his game completely reliant on his speed, an ability which tends to decline a lot around Damon's age or a couple years older. I agree that Damon is overall still an above average centerfielder and may continue to be one next year, but I and the other posters sincerely doubt that he will be anything like that in 3 years.

Where do you get this from? His average has gone up in each of the past three years. I thought the same as everyone else on this thread, then I went over to ESPN and looked at his player stats--very eye opening.

nyg02005
12-05-05, 09:31 PM
I could care less about the Money. if they can get him for only 3 years, give him 20 million a year

if that is the case then offer him 4 for 14 million/yr with a fifth yr option with a buyout of 4 million or 4 yr for 15 million each.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:32 PM
Johnny Damon is not a $14 million-a-year ballplayer.
Mind you, it's Gammons so it's not like we're dealing with a reputable source here.

At age 32, I wouldn't mind seeing Damon batting leadoff and roaming CF for the Yankees; he's a good short term solution until a younger solution becomes available; but not for more than 2 years/$25 million.

Would you quibble over $3 million on a $180 million payroll?

Jace
12-05-05, 09:38 PM
Where do you get this from? His average has gone up in each of the past three years. I thought the same as everyone else on this thread, then I went over to ESPN and looked at his player stats--very eye opening.

Well, hey, his average went up, I guess he has to be getting better then!

He had a very good year in 2004.

Zimmers' Helmet
12-05-05, 09:40 PM
Would you quibble over $3 million on a $180 million payroll?
If that $3 million can help fill another hole on this roster, yes I would.

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-05-05, 09:44 PM
Well, hey, his average went up, I guess he has to be getting better then!

He had a very good year in 2004.

His average has gone up three years in a row, my friend--and he has not had fewer than 600 AB per year since 1998. Sure, he may and will likely decline, but where is the evidence right now? From the sound of this board, he is ready for retirement tomorrow.

This board may be too influenced by the last 2-3 years of Bernie Williams and the sucky contract Boras got us into last time.

ComeBackShane47
12-06-05, 09:47 AM
I think the board is influenced by the general tendencies of players aging who relyon speed and average. Usually bat speed and leg speed are the first things to go, which in the case of a guy like damon reduces his value very much since he doesnt hit for power. It is possible that he is not declining right now, and that what peopel perceived as aging is actually just a few injuries that could be healed by now, however it is a good bet that by the time he is 35 he will be in graet decline, much like our dear friend bernie.

wileedog
12-06-05, 09:54 AM
I don't think he would deny a Yankee offer being out there, if it was true. A matter a fact, i don't think any agent would.

I think he would deny an offer that is so far below what he is asking though.

He wouldn't want the Yanks to publicly 'set the market' for Damon at 3/42.

wileedog
12-06-05, 09:58 AM
His average has gone up three years in a row, my friend--and he has not had fewer than 600 AB per year since 1998. S

But its still 30 points lower out of Fenway every year. That's my biggest caveat with Damon.

He will decline significantly with us by the simple fact that he won't play 81 games in Fenway.

Martini6196
12-06-05, 10:05 AM
I would do 3 yrs for $42 million. It's a short term solution and I think everyone here can agree Damon will still be a very effective leadoff hitter 3 years from now. I can live with his arm in centerfield because there are not alot of centerfielders out there with strong arms besides Hunter and Jones.

IronCaballo4
12-06-05, 10:07 AM
I'm afraid we'll get shut out of deals for all the CFs we're looking at, so we may have to go after Damon...which would suck

PittsburghYankeeFan
12-06-05, 10:19 AM
But its still 30 points lower out of Fenway every year. That's my biggest caveat with Damon.

He will decline significantly with us by the simple fact that he won't play 81 games in Fenway.

It is 30 points lower, but the difference is .334 versus .298. I still would take .300-.310 for 2-3 years. Lets see what happens: either the Yankees get him at 3 years, or force the Sawx to pay something like 4/60. Either scenario would be decent.

Kulish29
12-06-05, 10:20 AM
I'm afraid we'll get shut out of deals for all the CFs we're looking at, so we may have to go after Damon...which would suck

I dont think you should be worried about that. Cash has said he is more than willing to start Bubba and see what develops should it come to that scenario.

But it's not going to come to that. Something will happen during the next two weeks or so.

Martini6196
12-06-05, 10:48 AM
I dont think you should be worried about that. Cash has said he is more than willing to start Bubba and see what develops should it come to that scenario.

But it's not going to come to that. Something will happen during the next two weeks or so.

I agree with your statement. I do believe something will happen. If it doesn't happen now it will probably happen during the season. I think we can all agree that if Bubba is our opening day centerfielder he probably won't be by the trade deadline. I am still thinking Torii Hunter will be the Yankees next centerfielder.

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 10:54 AM
It is 30 points lower, but the difference is .334 versus .298. I still would take .300-.310 for 2-3 years. Lets see what happens: either the Yankees get him at 3 years, or force the Sawx to pay something like 4/60. Either scenario would be decent.
and think about how close that right-field porch is .... i'm not advocating it, but i'm still thinking about it ...

Martini6196
12-06-05, 10:59 AM
and think about how close that right-field porch is .... i'm not advocating it, but i'm still thinking about it ...

I keep thinking about how nervous I get everytime Damon is at the plate in Yankee Stadium. He will be an even more dangerous hitter playing 81 games in the Bronx.

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 11:06 AM
I keep thinking about how nervous I get everytime Damon is at the plate in Yankee Stadium. He will be an even more dangerous hitter playing 81 games in the Bronx.
mmmmm .... grand slam off curt schilling .... tasty .....

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 11:20 AM
I keep thinking about how nervous I get everytime Damon is at the plate in Yankee Stadium. He will be an even more dangerous hitter playing 81 games in the Bronx.
Damon + Right Field porch = :eek:

knickfan23
12-06-05, 11:24 AM
Johnny Damon is not a $14 million-a-year ballplayer.
Mind you, it's Gammons so it's not like we're dealing with a reputable source here.

At age 32, I wouldn't mind seeing Damon batting leadoff and roaming CF for the Yankees; he's a good short term solution until a younger solution becomes available; but not for more than 2 years/$25 million.


Youre right. But Rafy Furcal is not a 13 million a year player either and somehow, he was able to get that from LA. The market has officially been set for leadoff hitters now at 13 million buy the "one dumb owner" theory. I cant use the "he plays a different position" argument because now Furcal is making more $$ annually than Miguel Tejada. That cannot be justified.

If Furcal is worth 13 mil 3 years, why isnt Damon worth the same contract.

wileedog
12-06-05, 11:50 AM
Damon + Right Field porch = :eek:

The problem is he also gets a lot of doubles slapping the ball off the Monster.

In YS those will be outs.

YankeePride1967
12-06-05, 05:50 PM
I think he would deny an offer that is so far below what he is asking though.

He wouldn't want the Yanks to publicly 'set the market' for Damon at 3/42.

While I think Boras would not divulge the dollar amount or even the year, I think he would simply say that the Yanks did make an offer and leave the rest to imagination.

GimeMoMuny
12-07-05, 04:50 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sphey074542791dec07,0,7860953.column?coll=ny-yankees-print

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 04:53 AM
Damon bashes Boston, wants to play for Yankees


http://www.newsday.com/includes/esg/lspt.jpg



Damon to join Evil Empire?

NY NEWSDAY (http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-sphey1207,0,2627308.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists)


At one point, Damon actually sounded as if he might be over Boston. "It's been a pretty cool ride the past couple of years," he said. But he suggested the Sox still have a chance, saying, "They've got to step up, and really quick ... They've dragged their feet long enough."


"They're just one of the teams in the market right now," Damon said of Boston. "They've had all the time in the world, and I've given them every chance before last season and during the season. It wasn't until after the season that they wanted to start talking. By that time, I'd taken all the risk and played through all the injuries.

"Now I'm a free agent, and I'll see what's out there. I'm excited about it."

NYDCYankee
12-07-05, 05:00 AM
I think he is just trying to drive up his price.

Yankees13
12-07-05, 05:00 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sphey074542791dec07,0,7860953.column?coll=ny-yankees-print
*gulps*

Yankees13
12-07-05, 05:03 AM
I think he is just trying to drive up his price.
Just my opinion, but reading between the lines in that article makes me think that unless the Yankees are steadfast on not going over 3 years 33 million, say, then Damon has a better than 50/50 chance to be a Yankee.

flymick24
12-07-05, 05:05 AM
every free agent at one point or another wants to play for the yanks. it's all part of the game of free-agency.

don't read too much into it.

Yankees13
12-07-05, 05:05 AM
The thing to hope for is that Boras is just being clever and is trying to intice both sides to up the ante, with the intention of Damon staying in Boston.

yankeebot
12-07-05, 05:06 AM
I think the Sox are waiting to see if they can trade Manny before they make their best offer to Damon. I can't see them letting both of those guys go.

NYDCYankee
12-07-05, 05:18 AM
I think the Sox are waiting to see if they can trade Manny before they make their best offer to Damon. I can't see them letting both of those guys go.

Boston Herald is reporting that the Sox are going to offer JD 4/40

NDBoston
12-07-05, 06:51 AM
From the Gordon Edes blog (from the Boston Globe) late last night


Good news for Johnny Damon fans. Ran into Scott Boras walking through the lobby last night just before 3 a.m. Boston time, and he said that he'd spent considerable time talking with the Sox and things were looking "good." Scott doesn't say that kind of stuff unless he's closing in on a deal. The Sox are believed to have offered a four-year deal for JD, for a figure probably north of the $40 million they gave Jason Varitek and Edgar Renteria last year.

noneckwilliams
12-07-05, 06:56 AM
Damon heaped praise upon Rodriguez, whom several of Damon's teammates took turns ripping last winter (It was "us being jealous not getting him ... Alex has always been a class act"), Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi ("the absolute best" teammate), Yankees fans ("I think the fans respect me") and everything else pinstriped or associated with pinstripes.

JD's getting ripped apart on WEEI this morning.

Yankees13
12-07-05, 06:58 AM
Damon heaped praise upon Rodriguez, whom several of Damon's teammates took turns ripping last winter (It was "us being jealous not getting him ... Alex has always been a class act"), Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi ("the absolute best" teammate), Yankees fans ("I think the fans respect me") and everything else pinstriped or associated with pinstripes.

JD's getting ripped apart on WEEI this morning.
Truth hurts, I suppose.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 07:16 AM
From the Gordon Edes blog (from the Boston Globe) late last night
There goes Damon now.

nyctalopia
12-07-05, 07:58 AM
every free agent at one point or another wants to play for the yanks. it's all part of the game of free-agency.

don't read too much into it.
Trying to up your own value by praising the Yankees is one thing, but bashing the team that was (up until now) the favorite to sign you is a totally different thing. You think the Red Sox ego isn't hurt by Damon's comments? He's pretty much saying that everything that had worked the past few years has been traded away or let go by the front office. Damon knows his comments are going to make a high-valued multi-year deal less likely from the Sox. Makes me think he's actually really frustrated and wants George to know that he's willing to come to New York.

ICEBERG18
12-07-05, 09:20 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sphey074542791dec07,0,7860953.column?coll=ny-yankees-print


Give me a break with all that BS, I heard Heyman on the radio begging the Yankees to go after Damon, now he seems to be doing it in print.

ojo
12-07-05, 09:29 AM
i heard the phillies dropped their demand for wang (no pun, but do tip your waitress) for michaels.

NewEraYanks2527
12-07-05, 09:42 AM
Boston Herald is reporting that the Sox are going to offer JD 4/40 Another "reported offer" how many of those have we seen? It sure will be interesting to see how this plays out. As far as Damon's comments go, did anyone catch Heyman's quote that "Damon is one of the most honest guys in baseball"? That just seemed planted and seemed like it needed to bring some validity to what could be simply just a story created by Damon and Boras to drive up his price.

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 09:49 AM
There are far worse moves that we could make then signing Damon for 3 or even 4 years. The guy is a very good leadoff hitter who fouls off pitches almost at will. He also covers a lot of ground in CF. Yes, his arm is weak, but I think that Johnny's range makes up for his noodle arm. Let's not forget that Damon can also hit for power, particularly with the short porch in RF.

If you slot him in front of Jeter, A-Rod, Matsui, Sheff, Giambi, etc., our lineup is all the more potent. Or, you bat him somewhere down in the order, adding speed and some pop to the lower portion of the order.

As with Pedro last year, Damon costs us $$, nothing else. I would hate to part with Wang or Cano or any of our other good prospects for a decent CF when we have a very capable player available for $$ only.

Damon is not my first choice, but it wouldn't bother me if we went after him.

NewEraYanks2527
12-07-05, 09:53 AM
There are far worse moves that we could make then signing Damon for 3 or even 4 years. The guy is a very good leadoff hitter who fouls off pitches almost at will. He also covers a lot of ground in CF. Yes, his arm is weak, but I think that Johnny's range makes up for his noodle arm. Let's not forget that Damon can also hit for power, particularly with the short porch in RF.

If you slot him in front of Jeter, A-Rod, Matsui, Sheff, Giambi, etc., our lineup is all the more potent. Or, you bat him somewhere down in the order, adding speed and some pop to the lower portion of the order.

As with Pedro last year, Damon costs us $$, nothing else. I would hate to part with Wang or Cano or any of our other good prospects for a decent CF when we have a very capable player available for $$ only.

Damon is not my first choice, but it wouldn't bother me if we went after him.
Personally I agree with you that Damon would be a good signing for 3 or 4 years. If the Yankees can grab him for 3 with an option for 4 they should do it. I do not like Damon personally but if he puts on the pinstripes my tune changes. Damons solves the CF problem for now without giving up Wang or Cano or the farm. Until teams start asking for less for players like Michaels then it seems Damon is one of the best options available because he will only cost the Yanks money.

ojo
12-07-05, 09:53 AM
yes, but for a backup? what do we expect to get out of a fourth outfielder, offense-wise? I think bernie still has a couple of big hits left in him. He's not going to retire, and I dont want to see him end his career on some bad team...he can still contribute as a part-timer, and thats what he should be

four years is at least one year too many, imho.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 09:53 AM
WORST CASE Scenario if he declines in a year defensively we can slide him to DH, and he can replace Sheffield's spot. Remember Damon can still hit, draw walks, stea bases, and has some pop.

ShaneTravis
12-07-05, 10:03 AM
With the contracts being handed out this offseason, if Damon gets anything less than 4 years @ 45 million it would be considered a "Bargin."

If Furcal is getting 3 years @ 39.5 million what do you think Boras is whispering in every GM's ear in Dallas about Damon.