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View Full Version : How about Chacon as setup for Mo?



Dannman103
11-25-05, 10:13 PM
With Ryan signed by the Blue Jays and the possibility of Gordon signing with another team to close, how about moving Chacon into the bullpen and having him set up for Mo? He's been a closer in the past, so it probably wouldnt be difficult for him to pitch out of the bullpen again. Plus, we've got somewhat f a logjam in the rotation, with Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, and Small. What does everyone think?

DandyAndy46
11-25-05, 10:15 PM
Not exactly hot stove material, don't you think?

Dannman103
11-25-05, 10:16 PM
whoops meant to put it in inside the lines...

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-25-05, 10:24 PM
not a bad idea, in fact i have said it during the season, however I wouls still like to sign farnsworth and another reliever

AMYanks
11-25-05, 10:31 PM
I would prefer Chacon stay in the rotation, and we go out and sign a couple of relievers. We don't need one, clear cut, setup man.

Sam18
11-25-05, 10:34 PM
Who replaces Chacon as the third starter?

hellonewman
11-25-05, 10:36 PM
One of the great mysteries of this offseason to me is why so many people seem to want to trade Chacon or turn him into a reliever. He was arguably our most consistent second-half starter last year, and while he's unlikely to duplicate that sub-3.00 ERA, the fact that he's a heavily-breaking-ball pitcher liberated from Colorado offers some genuine hope that he's the real deal. Yet everyone seems to want to tinker. :-shrug-:

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-25-05, 10:36 PM
Who replaces Chacon as the third starter?

Washburn?

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-25-05, 10:38 PM
One of the great mysteries of this offseason to me is why so many people seem to want to trade Chacon or turn him into a reliever. He was arguably our most consistent second-half starter last year, and while he's unlikely to duplicate that sub-3.00 ERA, the fact that he's a heavily-breaking-ball pitcher liberated from Colorado offers some genuine hope that he's the real deal. Yet everyone seems to want to tinker. :-shrug-:

Well we want to trade him because he is our only valuable trade piece and we have a surplus of SP and we need bullpen help and he used to be an all star reliever so that explains wanting to put him in the pen.

hellonewman
11-25-05, 10:51 PM
Well we want to trade him because he is our only valuable trade piece and we have a surplus of SPWe have an imaginary surplus of starting pitching. Beyond the front 5, all of whom have injury histories and/or age concerns, we've got Aaron Small, whose career screams "fluke," and Jaret Wright, whose career screams "suck." You don't open one hole to fill another.


he used to be an all star reliever so that explains wanting to put him in the pen.He's a former all-star reliever who is showing he can start successfully. If a guy can give me 150+ good innings, why do I want to use him for only 75? I'd rather seek different solutions for the bullpen.

Yankees1962
11-25-05, 10:56 PM
Nothing to substantiate my following comment, but I have a feeling that the Yankees are prepare to have at least one dark horse that's already in their system as part of the bullpen next season. Possibly, somebody that most of us on this board think isn't ready yet, but the Yankees will take a hard look at in spring training.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-25-05, 10:58 PM
We have an imaginary surplus of starting pitching. Beyond the front 5, all of whom have injury histories and/or age concerns, we've got Aaron Small, whose career screams "fluke," and Jaret Wright, whose career screams "suck." You don't open one hole to fill another.

He's a former all-star reliever who is showing he can start successfully. If a guy can give me 150+ good innings, why do I want to use him for only 75? I'd rather seek different solutions for the bullpen.

Ok so either you have a bullpen hole or you have a SP hole right? Well most of the good relievers are gone/dont want to come here. The best pitching option(both sp and relievers) on the market is Washburn, you sign Washburn to fill Chacons spot and make Chacon a set up man. That would make the team better without having to trade for a reliever.
rotation and bullpen set up could be this

SP:
Johnson
Mussina
Washburn
Pavano
Wang


Proctor
Sturtze
Farnsworth
gordon
Chacon
MO

That is better than

Johnson
Mussina
Chacon
Pavano Wang

Henn
Proctor
Sturtze
Farnsworth
Gordon
MO

brosiusbuddy
11-25-05, 11:06 PM
With Ryan signed by the Blue Jays and the possibility of Gordon signing with another team to close, how about moving Chacon into the bullpen and having him set up for Mo? He's been a closer in the past, so it probably wouldnt be difficult for him to pitch out of the bullpen again. Plus, we've got somewhat f a logjam in the rotation, with Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, and Small. What does everyone think?

Chacon can be the setup man every 5th day... seeing as he often lasted 8 innings anyhow.

hellonewman
11-25-05, 11:10 PM
Ok so either you have a bullpen hole or you have a SP hole right? Well most of the good relievers are gone/dont want to come here. The best pitching option(both sp and relievers) on the market is Washburn, you sign Washburn to fill Chacons spot and make Chacon a set up man. That would make the team better without having to trade for a reliever.
rotation and bullpen set up could be this

SP:
Johnson
Mussina
Washburn
Pavano
Wang


Proctor
Sturtze
Farnsworth
gordon
Chacon
MO

That is better than

Johnson
Mussina
Chacon
Pavano Wang

Henn
Proctor
Sturtze
Farnsworth
Gordon
MOI guess I'm not as big a Washburn guy as you are. He was mediocre for 2 years prior to last season, and people with a better grasp of sabermetrics than I seem to feel his low ERA last year was a fluke, given his peripherals. His postseason history isn't real good, he's a Boras client (read: big bucks) and Chacon, unlike Washburn, is already a proven quantity under "Yankee pressure."

P.S.: How did you manage to unload Wright?

puckmaster87
11-25-05, 11:17 PM
Definitely not. He struggled as a reliever. I think Jaret Wright's stuff would work much better for a setup man's role than would Chacon's.

highheat2014
11-25-05, 11:32 PM
Well we want to trade him because he is our only valuable trade piece and we have a surplus of SP and we need bullpen help and he used to be an all star reliever so that explains wanting to put him in the pen.

Chacon was an all-star in 2003 as a starter, and in his season as a closer he was beyond awful (7.11 ERA, 71 ERA+)

Fenrir
11-25-05, 11:40 PM
The starting pitching "logjam" is a fake one. We have very few dependable starters, and Chacon has been one of the few. We have alot of question marks in our rotation.

NewEraYanks2527
11-26-05, 12:05 AM
Chacon should start, it would be a waste for him to setup seeing as how we would have to have a lead in order to even get to that point and with some of our other starters on the hill, that becomes less likely.

Don Mack
11-26-05, 12:18 AM
One of the great mysteries of this offseason to me is why so many people seem to want to trade Chacon or turn him into a reliever. He was arguably our most consistent second-half starter last year, and while he's unlikely to duplicate that sub-3.00 ERA, the fact that he's a heavily-breaking-ball pitcher liberated from Colorado offers some genuine hope that he's the real deal. Yet everyone seems to want to tinker. :-shrug-:
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I concur. When I see a post where someone wants to trade Chacon, I have to wonder if they watched the games this past season. Next to Randy Johnson when he was on, Chacon was our best starter.

DJ27
11-26-05, 12:19 AM
Our starters are just going to have to pick it up a notch and Joe will have to let them go and trust them more than he has in the past. Unless we deal one of our starters for a top reliever!!

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-26-05, 02:47 AM
A great starting pitcher is more valuable than a relief pitcher. Especially a pure "set up" man. He could help us much more as a SP...

jbauer2485
11-26-05, 02:53 AM
I'd consider it if we actually had a starting rotation

I Love Wang
11-26-05, 04:58 AM
This is a terrible idea. Why limit the effectiveness of one of our best starters? Should we make Randy Johnson a LOOGY?

webassign
11-26-05, 08:54 AM
Is everyone forgetting about Small?

haha17
11-26-05, 09:45 AM
shawn already failed in Colorado as closer...
bad choice..i think

surge511
11-26-05, 09:47 AM
No matter how good Chacon would do in the bullpen, he is to valuable to be kept out of the rotation. With so many good relievers out there, we should have been able to land 1 or 2 of them.

There is still time, though. If we sign Gordon and Farnsworth, we are in pretty good shape. I know those weren't our first options, but it could be the best of what is still out there. I'll hold any critiscm until after the pen is set.

Sierra Mist
11-26-05, 12:23 PM
I think that would be a mistake. Wright should be in the pen over Chacon. Chacon is a great starter.

Fabien Brandy
11-26-05, 12:26 PM
Jaret Wright has bullpen experience as well and I think it sends a bad message if paycheck decides role (or just as bad, 'punishing' Chacon for being a better pitcher than Wright).

JeffWeaverFan
11-26-05, 01:57 PM
Completely against it. Chacon's K rate last year wasn't that great and I want the guy that comes out of the pen to K guys. Plus, Chacon has done great as a starter, so why change that?

Tifoso
11-26-05, 01:59 PM
Completely against it. Chacon's K rate last year wasn't that great and I want the guy that comes out of the pen to K guys. Plus, Chacon has done great as a starter, so why change that?


Absolutely Wright.

ComeBackShane47
11-26-05, 02:20 PM
Completely against it. Chacon's K rate last year wasn't that great and I want the guy that comes out of the pen to K guys. Plus, Chacon has done great as a starter, so why change that?


Exactly. Look at his K/BB ratio, not very good at all, his success with the yankees was sorta lucky. He would be much better trade bait, even with a very low value, than a starter or set up guy. I like him a lot, but he is unlikely to repeat his performance. Of course all of this is old news.

JeffWeaverFan
11-26-05, 02:21 PM
Exactly. Look at his K/BB ratio, not very good at all, his success with the yankees was sorta lucky. He would be much better trade bait, even with a very low value, than a starter or set up guy. I like him a lot, but he is unlikely to repeat his performance. Of course all of this is old news.
Yeah. The only thing is he's pretty cheap and I do like him a lot. Plus, I believe he lost a little velocity on his fastball last season because of an injury that affected him all year. So, if he can regain that velocity, maybe the K rate will go up.

ZYanksRule
11-26-05, 04:03 PM
I think he could thrive there, but I don't want to go through the offseason getting no one and having to do this.

Preferably, Chacon stays in the rotation.

Jglaubman
11-26-05, 05:19 PM
shawn already failed in Colorado as closer...
bad choice..i think

i agree. Setting up and starting are two completely different things.

deranged2005
11-26-05, 07:08 PM
shawn already failed in Colorado as closer...
bad choice..i think

I feel like it's to judge Chacon has a closer in Colorado...it's Colorado we're talking about.

The point is moot anyway...he remains a starter.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-26-05, 07:31 PM
Considering he was our best SP last season, you don't take your ace and make him into a relief pitcher...

23and2
11-26-05, 07:58 PM
Chacon has probably the best pickoff move of all the current Yankees pitchers. The ability to control the situation with men on base is a big plus for a guy coming out of the pen. That said, I still love him as a starter. To me, he's a poor man's Mike Mussina. If he does get some velocity back on the fastball, I'll love him even more.

Yankees13
11-26-05, 08:56 PM
With Ryan signed by the Blue Jays and the possibility of Gordon signing with another team to close, how about moving Chacon into the bullpen and having him set up for Mo? He's been a closer in the past, so it probably wouldnt be difficult for him to pitch out of the bullpen again. Plus, we've got somewhat f a logjam in the rotation, with Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, and Small. What does everyone think?
He was pretty bad as a reliever with the Rockies, plus we need him in the rotation, I don't want Pavano and Wright in the same rotation. Also I'd argue a #2 or #3 starter is more important then a set up man.

conkermaniac
11-26-05, 09:02 PM
Our rotation should be:
- Johnson
- Mussina
- Chacon
- Wang
- Pavano

Wright and Small should be the ones going to the bullpen. And if one or more of the above are injured, fill in Small, Wright, and Sturtze--in that order. I'm also all for resigning Leiter as a LOOGY (since it seems like we've wasted our chances on the rest), giving us an extra starter in case another man goes down.

surge511
11-26-05, 10:49 PM
Our rotation should be:
- Johnson
- Mussina
- Chacon
- Wang
- Pavano

Wright and Small should be the ones going to the bullpen. And if one or more of the above are injured, fill in Small, Wright, and Sturtze--in that order. I'm also all for resigning Leiter as a LOOGY (since it seems like we've wasted our chances on the rest), giving us an extra starter in case another man goes down.

This is exactly what I think should happen. And if we get active on the free agent market and sign people like Gordon and Farnsworth, there will be no need for Chacon to move, anyway.