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View Full Version : Biggest Yankee problem in a long time: Thumbs down to the Bronx Zoo



bardos
11-21-05, 08:10 AM
Call it atmosphere, ambience, mystique, tradition... what have you. It's in ruins. I think the Yanks are now in the position where they are OBLIGED to offer a bonus, extra millions or an extra contract year, in order to attract good players to NY.

One factor is of course NY taxes, the playing field on this issue is not level.

Another factor are the problems in the Yankee boardroom, the constant infighting and bickering that has taken place over the past few years.

Mr. Steinbrenner's philosophy of "win-now" or be dragged over the hot coals has apparently eroded the old Yankee tradition of excellence, in which so many of the best MLB players yearned to come and play for the team.

Add to that the fickle nature of the fan-base...

Watching the comments this winter of some of the free agents with respect to playing for the Yankees is not encouraging.

JDPNYY
11-21-05, 08:14 AM
You are ignoring the added incentive of endorsements that players can make by playing in NY.

Rich
11-21-05, 08:16 AM
Bull.

JDPNYY
11-21-05, 08:22 AM
Bull.

Yeah, that too.

ojo
11-21-05, 08:24 AM
My thoughts exactly.
What's better for next year:
Sheff, Matsui, Giles and Bubba OR Giles, Matsui and Rowand?
I go with the former.

i don't think this is inaccurate, however it's not unique to this year. in any single year there are dozens of quality ball players who would rather retire than deal with NY. that's just the way it is.

Rich
11-21-05, 08:27 AM
Yeah, that too.

In almost any cost/benefit comparison of the various venues that a player can choose to play, the New York Yankees come out way ahead.

23and2
11-21-05, 08:29 AM
Let's see, those who play for the Yankees have the opportunity to:

1) Get paid a lot to play baseball
2) Play for the most storied team in sports history
3) Go to the playoffs every year
4) Play for great, knowledgeable fans with huge hearts and great expectations
5) Get lucrative endorsement deals

It's hard for me to see how perceived front office management squabbles, or an organization's expectation to "win" (who, btw, puts their money where their desire is), or even taxes (we're talking about Millions of Millions of Dollars here) would detract from those positives.

RobRiv
11-21-05, 08:36 AM
All good points, bardos - many of the problems you listed have existed for a long time.

But I think the biggest problem this winter are the available players. There are only several free agents who interest the Yanks, and a few of those players are saying they're not interested in playing here.

I think the Yanks should be more openly aggressive, and less coy in pursuing "free agents" like BJ Ryan, for example. The Mets have been visiting free agents at their homes, and having them visit their ballpark. The Yanks have been working the phones, and showing interest through the media. I prefer the Mets strategy.

Clearly, the Yanks are going to overpay whoever they get, and they're in no rush at the moment to break out the checkbook.

Jasbro
11-21-05, 08:43 AM
There is no "problem". Every year there are players who know themselves well enough and opt not to consider NY as an option.

The real problem is with those who think with their wallets first and come here anyway, despite knowing that they are not cut out for the unique pressures of NY -- and they then fail to reach their career averages as a result.

I am grateful that some big dollar players are being proactive and opting to forgo the extra dollars to play somewhere they know they can handle. What we are seeing right now is a validation of the notion that it can be tougher for many to play in NY than in most other places -- I don't blame these players for knowing themselves well enough to understand that they probably couldn't handle it here.

23and2
11-21-05, 08:49 AM
Wake me up if the trend becomes players leaving significant amounts of cash on the table in order to avoid playing for the Yankees. In the meantime, if other teams continue to lay out comparable money then I'm not disturbed. Handcuffing other teams financially can sometimes be in our interest.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 09:03 AM
Did Carl Pavano start this thread?

silverdsl
11-21-05, 09:15 AM
Call it atmosphere, ambience, mystique, tradition... what have you. It's in ruins. I think the Yanks are now in the position where they are OBLIGED to offer a bonus, extra millions or an extra contract year, in order to attract good players to NY.Where is the evidence for this? If the Yankees offer a lot to players it's because they have a lot of financial resources to play with and in a lot of cases the players they go after want a lot of $$ from any team that shows interest in them.

The Yankees have been in the post-season every season for years now. There are many players who have rarely, if ever, played in the post-season which is the goal of every player. The Yankees may not be winning world series and might have some internal issues to deal with but as long as they are one of the more successful teams in baseball there will be plenty of players who are willing to play in the Bronx.

-Deborah

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-21-05, 09:17 AM
Did Carl Pavano start this thread?
:lol: ..

Sam18
11-21-05, 09:48 AM
The only bad thing about playing in NY is the a**hole media.

GrouchoNYY
11-21-05, 09:53 AM
At first glance, it seems that way but give the situation a second look.

Mo could pitch for two or three years at the same level as he does now. Why would a closer (Ryan or Wagner) waste prime years waiting indefinitely.

Giles lives in SD, as do his parents. He just wants more money from the Padres.

For every Giles or Ryan, there is a Shawn Chacon who arrived by trade or an Ichiro who love to be traded here. Sometimes the free agent class is not a good mix. it is not a trend.

Jace
11-21-05, 10:02 AM
It seems like so far the Red Sox have been a less desirable destination this offseason than the Yankees. But then the Red Sox have no GM.

MiamiKat
11-21-05, 11:46 AM
Other teams have FO conflicts and issues too. It's just that those problems don't make the sports pages or ESPN like those within the Yankees (or, obviously, Red Sox) organization does.

And Yankee fans can be called a lot of things, but "fickle" is not among them. "Fickle" is forgetting the team exists and having the team play in a nearly empty stadium when things aren't going well. It's not a few idiots booing sure-thing HOF players or slamming guys who don't seem to be giving 100%.

As Rich said, any cost/benefit analysis weighs heavily in favor of the Yankees. The variables behind such an analysis are stated in this thread. And if the added recognition and pressure of being a Yankee is a deal-breaker for a FA, I don't want a sack-less player like that on the team anyway.

27IsNext
11-21-05, 12:00 PM
Sadly, I fear the original poster may have a point. Free agents this offseason aren't exactly flocking to us with interest. Maybe it's just this particular class.

Yankees1962
11-21-05, 12:18 PM
4) Play for great, knowledgeable fans with huge hearts and great expectations
Yankee fans aren't so great, especially, when the players they root for are struggling then they turn on them on the dime.

The only bad thing about playing in NY is the a**hole media.
The same can be applied to many Yankee fans.

Annie418
11-21-05, 12:40 PM
Sadly, I fear the original poster may have a point. Free agents this offseason aren't exactly flocking to us with interest. Maybe it's just this particular class.
I would rather have a player say "No thanks, not interested" no matter the amount of cash, than have a player come here for the money but not have his heart in it. Rather than wise and honest decisions being made by free agents I think the big problem this year is the slim pickings.

BeantownYankee
11-21-05, 12:45 PM
Sadly, I fear the original poster may have a point. Free agents this offseason aren't exactly flocking to us with interest. Maybe it's just this particular class.

Where is the point? How many free agents have you heard that have said no to NY and why? BJ Ryan, clearly wants to close, Gordon, would prefer to close, if we didn't have Mo do you think the interest would be there? Of course. Scott Erye (sp?), made it very clear he wanted to stay in the pitcher friendly national league and did. Giles a West Coast guy. Am I missing others? Let's see the only real openings we have are Centerfield (not alot of Free Agent CF's out there), DH (so how many players pursue the DH role?), and middle relief. How many starting pitchers think there's room for them in the rotation? So what is the original poster basing these points on? I agree it cost more to play here (but they make more here also). I also agree the expectations are higher and if they are afraid of that then please don't have them call Cash!

Long_Time NYY_Fan
11-21-05, 01:49 PM
The only bad thing about playing in NY is the a**hole media.

You forgot the fans - like the ones who have booed Jester & Mo, or years ago booed the Mick. We like to think that everything about NY is great, but it is a tough place to live and work, and are partly to blame. With that being said, I respect the player who realizes that it is not for him. I would rather have someone sign elsewhere, than come here and fall apart.

We all make choices about where we want to live and work. Sometimes, money drives the choice. Other times, it's location or other factors. It is the same for players. Some want every last cent, some want to win, some want to be on the big stage. Others like keeping a low profile or having a comfortable life. No big deal. It doesn't mean the Yanks have lost their appeal.

Sam18
11-21-05, 01:54 PM
You forgot the fans - like the ones who have booed Jester & Mo, or years ago booed the Mick. We like to think that everything about NY is great, but it is a tough place to live and work, and are partly to blame. With that being said, I respect the player who realizes that it is not for him. I would rather have someone sign elsewhere, than come here and fall apart.

We all make choices about where we want to live and work. Sometimes, money drives the choice. Other times, it's location or other factors. It is the same for players. Some want every last cent, some want to win, some want to be on the big stage. Others like keeping a low profile or having a comfortable life. No big deal. It doesn't mean the Yanks have lost their appeal.

I definitley agree. The fans you mentioned are the ones that take what the media says to be gospel. These are the same fans that think A-rod sucks and Jeter's God.

Jaeho
11-21-05, 02:24 PM
Where is the point? How many free agents have you heard that have said no to NY and why? BJ Ryan, clearly wants to close, Gordon, would prefer to close, if we didn't have Mo do you think the interest would be there? Of course. Scott Erye (sp?), made it very clear he wanted to stay in the pitcher friendly national league and did. Giles a West Coast guy. Am I missing others? Let's see the only real openings we have are Centerfield (not alot of Free Agent CF's out there), DH (so how many players pursue the DH role?), and middle relief. How many starting pitchers think there's room for them in the rotation? So what is the original poster basing these points on? I agree it cost more to play here (but they make more here also). I also agree the expectations are higher and if they are afraid of that then please don't have them call Cash!

:clap: Enough said.



I think the Yanks should be more openly aggressive, and less coy in pursuing "free agents" like BJ Ryan, for example. The Mets have been visiting free agents at their homes, and having them visit their ballpark. The Yanks have been working the phones, and showing interest through the media. I prefer the Mets strategy.

How the heck do you know what Cashman is and isn't doing? And could you please tell me who the Mets have signed? Oh, that's right. NO ONE! Last year Beltran would have taken LESS money to play for us and we never really pursued Pedro. So what strategy? Omar's strategy is too overpay everyone with Fred Wilpon's money. Meanwhile the Yankees have made the biggest FA signing so far this season. I guess signing Matsui was meaningless.

Do Yankee fans realize it is not even Thanksgiving? And people are whining that nobody wants to play for the Yankees!? Oh boohoo. Give me a break! You can't make this stuff up. Has everyone lost their minds?

Yankees1962
11-21-05, 02:24 PM
I definitley agree. The fans you mentioned are the ones that take what the media says to be gospel. These are the same fans that think A-rod sucks and Jeter's God.
Any Yankee fans that tries to make it a Arod versus Jeter scenario isn't a good Yankee fan in my opinion.

rivera,s cutter
11-21-05, 02:28 PM
The only bad thing about playing in NY is the a**hole media.i second that!!!!

Sam18
11-21-05, 02:31 PM
Any Yankee fans that tries to make it a Arod versus Jeter scenario isn't a good Yankee fan in my opinion.

Its not A-rod Vs. Jeter. What I'm talking about is a double standerd for certain players. Before A-rod was on the Yankees it was Giambi that everyone picked on for not being a "winner".

Yankees1962
11-21-05, 02:35 PM
Its not A-rod Vs. Jeter. What I'm talking about is a double standerd for certain players. Before A-rod was on the Yankees it was Giambi that everyone picked on for not being a "winner".
Just so we're clear I wasn't even talking about you. I'm referring to certain fans that hails one player while discrediting the greatness of the other.

Sam18
11-21-05, 02:37 PM
Just so we're clear I wasn't even talking about you. I'm referring to certain fans that hails one player while discrediting the greatness of the other.

Oh, ok.

RobRiv
11-21-05, 02:58 PM
:
How the heck do you know what Cashman is and isn't doing? And could you please tell me who the Mets have signed? Oh, that's right. NO ONE! Last year Beltran would have taken LESS money to play for us and we never really pursued Pedro. So what strategy? Omar's strategy is too overpay everyone with Fred Wilpon's money. Meanwhile the Yankees have made the biggest FA signing so far this season. I guess signing Matsui was meaningless.

Do Yankee fans realize it is not even Thanksgiving? And people are whining that nobody wants to play for the Yankees!? Oh boohoo. Give me a break! You can't make this stuff up. Has everyone lost their minds?

Take it easy, Jaeho. No need to go on the attack here. Nobody's saying the sky is falling, and nobody's whining here.

Let's discuss what has been reported. Omar has been *openly courting* Wagner and Ryan, two pitchers who could definitely help the Yankees, no? We know he's *met with* these players face to face and asked them to join his team. We don't know what Cashman has been up to. You have no idea yourself, but if Cashman visited their homes, or had them visit NY (as Omar has done) don't you think we would have read about it? So for now, it *appears* that Omar is doing a lot more than working the phones. Will it work? We'll see.

Beltran and Pedro? I think Omar did a great job with those signings last winter -- and you could see it coming a mile away,you know why? Because Omar made it clear to the world that these were the players he wanted. I admire that strategy.

JeffWeaverFan
11-21-05, 02:58 PM
When the Yankees are a good team, most players will want to play for them. When the Yankees are a bad team, most players will not want to play for them and the Yankees will have to offer more money and years - like when they tried to get Madddux and Drabeck after the 1992 season. It's as simple as that.

This year, there are 2 guys that don't want to come here that we know of. 1. Brian Giles who is a West Coast guy and wants to stay out there. 2. BJ Ryan who wants to close.

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-21-05, 03:42 PM
Call it atmosphere, ambience, mystique, tradition... what have you. It's in ruins. I think the Yanks are now in the position where they are OBLIGED to offer a bonus, extra millions or an extra contract year, in order to attract good players to NY.

There are always going to be players who don't want to come to ny for any number of reasons. There are always going to be players who don't want to come to any city for any number of reasons. I don't see any evidence that there are more who don't want to come to new york, or the yanks specifically, than any other city or team. Do you have any?

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 04:12 PM
The biggest problem is that we've targeted players who are used to being in a larrger role on other teams and are asking them to accept a lesser role on this one (with the possible exception of Giles).

There are always going to be geographic considerations for some players, but barring that, there's no reason to expect that many guys to pull a Tom Gordon and accept a lesser role for the "chance to win." The Yankees haven't won in 5 years.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 04:22 PM
Sadly, I fear the original poster may have a point. Free agents this offseason aren't exactly flocking to us with interest. Maybe it's just this particular class.

Actually, this particular class happens to suck outside of 3 good closers, Giles, Burnett and Furcal. And there is a good defensive, albeit obese and oft-injured catcher available. The good players like Furcal & Burnett are not needed by the Yankees. And who can blame closers for wanting to continue closing?

So maybe they aren't "flocking to us with interest" but the Yankees are hardly flocking to THEM with interest. We did want Ryan pretty badly but he wants to close. Oh well, sh*t happens, wow we missed out on one RP so far because he wants to close. And please don't tell me we missed on Scott Eyre, he only had his eyes set on the NL.

I'm more interested in next offseason with the availability of Andruw Jones.

The Q Bomb
11-21-05, 06:52 PM
While I think bardos overstated the reluctance of players to come to The Bronx, I do understand where he's coming from. Right or wrong, it seemed like every player in MLB wanted to play for The Yankees about 4 or 5 years ago - now it seems you hear more about players who don't want to come here. It may just be a perception thing but I feel that the reliever who signed with The Cubs (I can't remember his name), BJ Ryan, and even the coach, Leo Mazzone, would have signed with The Yankees a few years ago.

There will always be plenty of players happy to play for The Yankees - but it just seemed like we were "the only game in town" a few years ago. I don't have that feeling now.

bardos
11-22-05, 01:37 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/sports/baseball/22yanks.html

ryanthe13th
11-22-05, 02:02 AM
:clap: Enough said.




How the heck do you know what Cashman is and isn't doing? And could you please tell me who the Mets have signed? Oh, that's right. NO ONE! Last year Beltran would have taken LESS money to play for us and we never really pursued Pedro. So what strategy? Omar's strategy is too overpay everyone with Fred Wilpon's money. Meanwhile the Yankees have made the biggest FA signing so far this season. I guess signing Matsui was meaningless.

Do Yankee fans realize it is not even Thanksgiving? And people are whining that nobody wants to play for the Yankees!? Oh boohoo. Give me a break! You can't make this stuff up. Has everyone lost their minds?

The Yankees have HUGE holes to fill in their organization. So far, there has been absolutely nothing going on. This is unacceptable, no matter what team you're playing for.

First off, the Matsui signing took WAY too long. Matsui should've been a sealed deal long before his deadline, no questions asked. If you're going to over pay, over pay for a consistant hitter who is willing to go out there and bust his ass for 162 games.

Second, maybe B.J. Ryan would have a bit more interest in playing here if the Front Office showed interest in him. Mazilli said he'd talk to Ryan, and I don't believe that was pursued. The most he got was a half assed phone call from Joe Torre(that's just rumored). Look at Scott Eyre, the Cubs wanted him, they contacted him, and signed him. This isn't happening with the Yankees.

Third, Boston is GMless and they've already managed to solve two problems: a starting pitching problem, and their third base problem. What the hell is taking the Yankees so long to sign Brian Giles or one of the other outfield candidates that are always being touted on this board?

Players want to play for guys that show them interest and right now, we're not showing ANYONE interest outside of a few lousy phone calls and pep talks from Joe Torre.

Yankees1962
11-22-05, 02:53 AM
The Yankees have HUGE holes to fill in their organization. So far, there has been absolutely nothing going on. This is unacceptable, no matter what team you're playing for.

First off, the Matsui signing took WAY too long. Matsui should've been a sealed deal long before his deadline, no questions asked. If you're going to over pay, over pay for a consistant hitter who is willing to go out there and bust his ass for 162 games.

Second, maybe B.J. Ryan would have a bit more interest in playing here if the Front Office showed interest in him. Mazilli said he'd talk to Ryan, and I don't believe that was pursued. The most he got was a half assed phone call from Joe Torre(that's just rumored). Look at Scott Eyre, the Cubs wanted him, they contacted him, and signed him. This isn't happening with the Yankees.

Third, Boston is GMless and they've already managed to solve two problems: a starting pitching problem, and their third base problem. What the hell is taking the Yankees so long to sign Brian Giles or one of the other outfield candidates that are always being touted on this board?

Players want to play for guys that show them interest and right now, we're not showing ANYONE interest outside of a few lousy phone calls and pep talks from Joe Torre.
Could this be the off-season in which the Yankee organization decided to take a step back? Sure, they have targeted a couple of players, but they don't appear to be out in front in acquiring either player. So far during this off-season, the local media is playing up the Mets moreso than the Yankees. To me, it appears to be a concerted effort by the Yankees not to be overly-aggressive in their pursuit of players and that they're following a detailed plan. It's still early, but something is rather funny as to how the Yankees are proceeding so far. IMO, I don't like the free agent market this year and I think some teams are going to get burnt very badly by overpaying some players. I've been waiting five years for the Yankees to take a step back and regroup as an organization, maybe, this is the year.

Jaeho
11-22-05, 03:19 AM
Take it easy, Jaeho. No need to go on the attack here. Nobody's saying the sky is falling, and nobody's whining here.

Let's discuss what has been reported. Omar has been *openly courting* Wagner and Ryan, two pitchers who could definitely help the Yankees, no? We know he's *met with* these players face to face and asked them to join his team. We don't know what Cashman has been up to. You have no idea yourself, but if Cashman visited their homes, or had them visit NY (as Omar has done) don't you think we would have read about it? So for now, it *appears* that Omar is doing a lot more than working the phones. Will it work? We'll see.

Beltran and Pedro? I think Omar did a great job with those signings last winter -- and you could see it coming a mile away,you know why? Because Omar made it clear to the world that these were the players he wanted. I admire that strategy.

And the Yankees have never gotten the players they targeted? That has sort of been their modus operandi for the past 30 years with a few exceptions. I am not sure how you can admire Omarís strategy when it basically is to overpay for players. There is really no strategy at all. He gave Pedro the extra year that no one else was giving him. He gave Beltran the contract that no one else was willing to. Do you think Pedro and Carlos signed because Omar made them feel welcome and baked them cookies? Sorry. It is all about the cash. Why do you think Boras tried to get the Yankees involved at the last second with Beltran? Was he really looking to sign with the Mets? Nope, but Boras had to take the highest offer.

Cashman could get Ryan tomorrow if he over payed like Omar. Lets see. A 4 year $44 million contract to be a setup man? Bud Selig would have a heart attack and all of baseball would scream murder because we blew up the salary structure for a middle reliever. The Mets have a closer opening. We donít. Wagner will sign with the Mets because they offered the most money and need a closer. It has nothing to do with Omar.



The Yankees have HUGE holes to fill in their organization. So far, there has been absolutely nothing going on. This is unacceptable, no matter what team you're playing for.

Yeah, cause every team usually finishes their off-season business before Thanksgiving. Why they even bother having winter meetings is beyond me. And how do you know they have nothing going on? Did Cashman get on a plane and head to Argentina? So what do you want them to do? Trade Cano and Wang for a high priced star that jacks up the payroll? Overpay for any old OFer to fill a hole? There isn't much out there and Cashman is being cautious.

I understand Yankee fans are not known for their patience, but this is getting ridiculous.



Could this be the off-season in which the Yankee organization decided to take a step back? Sure, they have targeted a couple of players, but they don't appear to be out in front in acquiring either player. So far this during this off-season, the local media is playing up the Mets moreso than the Yankees. To me, it appears to be a concerted effort by the Yankees not to be overly-aggressive in their pursuit of players and that they're following a detailed plan. It's still early, but something is rather funny as to how the Yankees are proceeding so far. IMO, I don't like the free agent market this year and I think some teams are going to get burnt very badly by overpaying some players. I've been waiting five years for the Yankees to take a step back and regroup as an organization, maybe, this is the year.

I agree. This is an awful free agent class and Cashman is also trying to let the farm regroup which is why he canít be aggression in trades.

But from the reaction on this board, many Yankee fans might not be ready for some fiscal sanity and kids from the farm.

Yankees1962
11-22-05, 05:23 AM
I agree. This is an awful free agent class and Cashman is also trying to let the farm regroup which is why he canít be aggression in trades.

But from the reaction on this board, many Yankee fans might not be ready for some fiscal sanity and kids from the farm.
I've been ready for five years and I hope this is the year they execute that plan. It's true the Yankees need bullpen and CF help. However, I've seen a few bullpens this past season that were better and had more depth than the Yankees that were made up with relievers that weren't high price items. Why can't the Yankees do the same thing without regard to Mo's contract? Furthermore, I think the long-term solution to the Yankees CF is not available through the free agent market or trade options, he will be playing somewhere in 2006, between Columbus and Charleston.

I don't know why that certain free agents are dismissing the Yankees, but if that's what happening then the Yankees have an opportunity to be creative in addressing their needs besides using cash and overpaying in prospects to plug up their holes.

goin for 27
11-22-05, 06:39 AM
Could this be the off-season in which the Yankee organization decided to take a step back? Sure, they have targeted a couple of players, but they don't appear to be out in front in acquiring either player.

I definitely don't think so. It is not even Thanksgiving yet. Cashman's fastest ticket back to sharing power with Tampa would be to take a step back.

Deals will come.

Yankees1962
11-22-05, 06:42 AM
I definitely don't think so. It is not even Thanksgiving yet. Cashman's fastest ticket back to sharing power with Tampa would be to take a step back.

Deals will come.
But what type of deals? It still might workout okay, but it appears the Yankees are not going to acquire their first choices in plugging their holes. The next 2-3 weeks will be interesting.

RobRiv
11-22-05, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=Jaeho]And the Yankees have never gotten the players they targeted? That has sort of been their modus operandi for the past 30 years with a few exceptions. I am not sure how you can admire Omarís strategy when it basically is to overpay for players. There is really no strategy at all. He gave Pedro the extra year that no one else was giving him. He gave Beltran the contract that no one else was willing to. Do you think Pedro and Carlos signed because Omar made them feel welcome and baked them cookies? Sorry. It is all about the cash. Why do you think Boras tried to get the Yankees involved at the last second with Beltran? Was he really looking to sign with the Mets? Nope, but Boras had to take the highest offer.

Cashman could get Ryan tomorrow if he over payed like Omar. Lets see. A 4 year $44 million contract to be a setup man? Bud Selig would have a heart attack and all of baseball would scream murder because we blew up the salary structure for a middle reliever. The Mets have a closer opening. We donít. Wagner will sign with the Mets because they offered the most money and need a closer. It has nothing to do with Omar. " }

You make some good points here, Jaeho, and the "baked cookies" line is funny -- but I think you underestimate the egos and demands of today's top players, and the worth of Pedro and Beltran. If only a plate of warm cookies was all it took to land players of their caliber.

Omar pays what the market demands him to pay to reel in the players he wants, same as Cashman.

If the Yankees are interested in Ryan, Cash will throw all the money it takes at him (which will surely be a ridiculous amount) plus an "I Love NY" t-shirt.

Do you think Steinbrenner would give Cashman a 5 million dollar deal if he wanted to "step back" this winter and hibernate? If Ryan is the best middle reliever available and that's where we need the most help, I say go get him Omar-style.

ryanthe13th
11-22-05, 08:59 AM
Yeah, cause every team usually finishes their off-season business before Thanksgiving. Why they even bother having winter meetings is beyond me. And how do you know they have nothing going on? Did Cashman get on a plane and head to Argentina? So what do you want them to do? Trade Cano and Wang for a high priced star that jacks up the payroll? Overpay for any old OFer to fill a hole? There isn't much out there and Cashman is being cautious.

I understand Yankee fans are not known for their patience, but this is getting ridiculous.

A.) When did I say to trade Cano and Wang? I didn't. Bradley is probably going to come cheap if we have to give up anything at all for him.

B.) I also never said that I wanted business finished before Thanksgiving. However, I want business to be going on. If you give Tom Gordon 3 years, you're asking for something bad to happen. Therefore, we now need a setup man and a 7th inning guy. Hopefully the Yankees will use Aaron Small and Jaret Wright as their long relievers.

C.) Cashman is being over cautious. He needs to start letting people know that the Yankees are serious suitors to them. Eyre and Ryan are already gone, how long are we going to wait before we start picking up the phone?

silverdsl
11-22-05, 09:43 AM
How do we know what Cashman is working on? He's not going to publically announce every phone call he makes to show interest in a player nor is every player always going to openly state what teams they are shopping their services to. We've gotten used to a lot happening in the open but that doesn't mean that's the totality of what's going on behind the scenes.

In addition, I don't really understand why not getting Wagner or Ryan would signify the Yankees are doing something wrong. Don't both players want to close? The Yankees already have a closer. As great as it would be to have either man in a set-up role if that's not what they want to do they are going to look for a team who can provide them with the opportunity to close. The Yankees are simply not going to be a fit for every single player.

-Deborah

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-22-05, 09:44 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/sports/baseball/22yanks.html
Huh? That article doesn't say anything to support your contention. You've stated that there are specific reasons - infighting, win now pressure, etc... - that lead players to shun the yanks. All this article shows is that Giles likes being in SD and Ryan wants to close. That doesn't have anything to do with a specific reluctance to join the yanks.

RobRiv
11-22-05, 10:25 AM
I'm all for giving thanks for the Yanks we didn't lose this winter, and keeping the team strong by not subtracting key people like Cashman and Matsui, but what have the Yanks done so far to address the most pressing need: middle relief pitching? Right now, they can point to Sturtze and somebody named Veras.

Why not openly court Ryan and Wagner, and throw "closer" money at them? Yes, they both say they'd rather close but have the Yanks made them a great offer to set up Rivera? Worst they could do is say, "No, thank you" and you force an opposing team to pay more for their services.

I mean, if Alex Rodriguez would give up short for Jeter, why wouldn't Ryan or Wagner set-up for Mariano Rivera? And who do we have to fill Mo's shoes if he requires time off? Scary thought.

I say go all-out for the best players who best fill your needs. Perhaps Mr. Cashman already has. We'll see.