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View Full Version : What about Ryan Freel??



Yankyfan
11-20-05, 09:32 PM
What would it take to get Ryan and use him in a utility role and rotate him with Bubba in CF? I know he has played some outfield. Is he god enough to play Center?WYO on this matter.What would it take for the Reds to trade him from there already packed OF?

BJG
11-20-05, 09:44 PM
What would it take to get Ryan and use him in a utility role and rotate him with Bubba in CF? I know he has played some outfield. Is he god enough to play Center?WYO on this matter.What would it take for the Reds to trade him from there already packed OF?

As a fan favorite and 'gritty, hustle' player, it would seem that Freel's value to the Reds likely exceeds his value on the open market. In addition, he would currently appear to be the best bet to start at 2B for the Reds.

Yankyfan
11-20-05, 09:48 PM
B can he play CF?He has a very nice OBP.

yanksphan
11-20-05, 10:20 PM
They have no reason to deal him.

BJG
11-20-05, 10:25 PM
B can he play CF?He has a very nice OBP.

He's not that great an overall hitter, though (cincy's a pretty good hitter's park).

He appears to be above average in CF.

Anyway, I think he's exactly the kind of guy you don't target for the reason above. I think he's more valuable to Cincy than he is if he were just a player somewhere else.

27IsNext
11-20-05, 11:22 PM
He's basically a super bench player. I'd love to get him, but he'd be too expensive.

Panamaniac42
11-20-05, 11:24 PM
speaking of utility men, anyone have knowledge on anything concerning Miggy Cairo this offseason?

I'd love to see him back, one of my favorites.

NYDCYankee
11-21-05, 12:00 AM
I want Freel on this team, he could be our Chone Figgins.

Mattpat11
11-21-05, 12:12 AM
If we got him, why would be platoon him with the vasty inferior Crosby?

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 12:21 AM
I want Freel on this team, he could be our Chone Figgins.

i hear you, but those are the type of guys you either have to develop on your own or find as a diamond-in-the-rough.

once you go out and throw money or try to trade for a player like that, you will find yourself overpaying for what you are getting in my opinion.

like today i was watching the Giants game and I was glad that David Tyree was back in action after missing time because he's been such a standout on special teams for us. Then of course he steps up today and blocks a punt. He is one of the best all-around special teams players in the NFL. But for another team to try and pry Tyree away from the Giants would be foolish.

I know the comparison is a little silly but as I said, we have to find our OWN Ryan Freel or Figgins. Who knows maybe in 3 years CJ Henry, i have no idea.

Huktonfonix
11-21-05, 12:27 AM
I want Freel on this team, he could be our Chone Figgins.

If by "our Chone Figgins" you mean that every team should have a guy who can play infield or outfield, steal a ton of bases, and not hit worth a damn, we already have one. Tony Womack is our Chone Figgins.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 12:30 AM
If by "our Chone Figgins" you mean that every team should have a guy who can play infield or outfield, steal a ton of bases, and not hit worth a damn, we already have one. Tony Womack is our Chone Figgins.

lol...sad but true

I Love Wang
11-21-05, 01:03 AM
i hear you, but those are the type of guys you either have to develop on your own or find as a diamond-in-the-rough.

once you go out and throw money or try to trade for a player like that, you will find yourself overpaying for what you are getting in my opinion.

like today i was watching the Giants game and I was glad that David Tyree was back in action after missing time because he's been such a standout on special teams for us. Then of course he steps up today and blocks a punt. He is one of the best all-around special teams players in the NFL. But for another team to try and pry Tyree away from the Giants would be foolish.

I know the comparison is a little silly but as I said, we have to find our OWN Ryan Freel or Figgins. Who knows maybe in 3 years CJ Henry, i have no idea.

If CJ Henry turns into a Ryan Freel/Chone Figgins "type," then he will be a huge bust and our scouting department should be completely overhauled.

LuckyLopez
11-21-05, 01:03 AM
If by "our Chone Figgins" you mean that every team should have a guy who can play infield or outfield, steal a ton of bases, and not hit worth a damn, we already have one. Tony Womack is our Chone Figgins.
C'mon, now, how do you back that? Figgins isn't a great hitter but "not hit worth a damn" is completely unfair. He has no real power but for 3 straight years he's basically put up a .290 AVG and .350 OBP. It may not be anything to go crazy over but its hardly a black hole. He's a singles hitter who walks enough (well above league average). Last season he was 26th in the AL in AVG and 27th in OBP. And despite his low SLG he's not the sort of defensive specialist who has single digits HR totals for his career and he has got double digit triples for 2 seasons now. Considering the wealth of positions he can play well and his baserunning prowess (stealing 62 bases at a 78% success rate) how can you honestly crap on that?

Tony Womack has had 1 season in his career where he hit comparably to where Figgins has. For his career he's a .273 AVG and .316 OBP hitter. His career SLG is nearly 50 points below Figgins' (in fact he's never had a season that matched Figgins' .400 career SLG). And of course he's coming off a decrepit season where comparing him to Figgins is ridiculous. That's without bringing up the question of if whether he can play the same number of positions to the same level of skill as Figgins. Womack's one undeniable skill is basestealing (which he steals at a better rate than Figgins) but he gets on base considerably less than Figgins (especially if you regard '04 as an anomaly).

How do you actually compare the two besides vague generalizations of their skillsets?

I'm of the mind that Womack can be a useful tool as a bench player who can pinch run and fill a variety of defensive positions in a fix. But you can't justify starting him. Figgins - and Freel - both bring more defensively and offensively.

NYDCYankee
11-21-05, 01:11 AM
If by "our Chone Figgins" you mean that every team should have a guy who can play infield or outfield, steal a ton of bases, and not hit worth a damn, we already have one. Tony Womack is our Chone Figgins.

I wish Tony Womack was our Chone Figgins. Then maybe we would have had a legitimate CF who led the AL in steals on our team.

People can still be good hitters and clutch players and not hit 30 hrs a year, I have a feeling that is what you are looking for.

mbn007
11-21-05, 07:09 AM
If CJ Henry turns into a Ryan Freel/Chone Figgins "type," then he will be a huge bust and our scouting department should be completely overhauled.

Who said anything about Henry being like that. For one thing, CJ has more pop.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 10:01 AM
If CJ Henry turns into a Ryan Freel/Chone Figgins "type," then he will be a huge bust and our scouting department should be completely overhauled.

When I said that I was thinking about the whole multi-positional thing...but you're absolutely right.

Hopefully Hansen is a bust...

ojo
11-21-05, 12:04 PM
i'd trade arod for figgins in a heartbeat.

I Love Wang
11-21-05, 12:05 PM
Who said anything about Henry being like that. For one thing, CJ has more pop.

The post I responded to. You should be able to find it, since i quoted it in my post.

Sam18
11-21-05, 12:18 PM
i'd trade arod for figgins in a heartbeat.

:roflmao:

ojo
11-21-05, 01:34 PM
:roflmao:

having a guy in your lineup who can play all positions on the diamond and hit well enough to spark an offense to the playoffs (at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cost) is to me far more valuable than 40 to 50 dingers. ;)

laugh all you want, but i'm pretty sure the angels wouldn't deal figgins for arod anyway.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 01:51 PM
having a guy in your lineup who can play all positions on the diamond and hit well enough to spark an offense to the playoffs (at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cost) is to me far more valuable than 40 to 50 dingers. ;)

laugh all you want, but i'm pretty sure the angels wouldn't deal figgins for arod anyway.

and let's not forgot how good Figgins was in the playoffs............

I Love Wang
11-21-05, 01:56 PM
having a guy in your lineup who can play all positions on the diamond and hit well enough to spark an offense to the playoffs (at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cost) is to me far more valuable than 40 to 50 dingers. ;)

laugh all you want, but i'm pretty sure the angels wouldn't deal figgins for arod anyway.

Oh my god. Your understanding of value is severly warped. The Angels would definitely deal Figgins for A-Rod if they could afford it.

Sam18
11-21-05, 02:30 PM
having a guy in your lineup who can play all positions on the diamond and hit well enough to spark an offense to the playoffs (at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cost) is to me far more valuable than 40 to 50 dingers. ;)

laugh all you want, but i'm pretty sure the angels wouldn't deal figgins for arod anyway.

:roflmao: :roflmao:

Agent007
11-21-05, 04:01 PM
I think getting Freel would a GREAT acquisition, but comparisons to Arod are extremely absurd. Arod is a first ballot Hall of Fame guy.

I would love to see the Yankees trade for Brad Wilkerson and Ryan Freel, and use them in a lefty-righty platoon in CF. Wilkerson could then also be used as a defensive backup to Giambi at 1B, while also being able to play all 3 OF positions, and Freel could also play all of the OF positions, as well as backup at 2B, SS, and 3B. Wilkerson would also make a solid lefty PH guy when on the bench, and Freel would be a great pinch-runner. Having either of those two, and especialliy both of them, would would add extremely valuable versatility and injury insurance to the team.

I would try to sign Giles also for RF and DH Sheffield as the rest of what I suggest Cashman try to do.

ojo
11-21-05, 04:02 PM
Oh my god. Your understanding of value is severly warped. The Angels would definitely deal Figgins for A-Rod if they could afford it.

i dunno about that. 'affording it' means what? being rich enough like texas was? like new york 'is'? arod's and other contracts forced them to rely on bernie AGAIN last season.

i guess flexible, inexpensive players aren't as attractive to some as megalo-super stars such as a-rod, but come on. he's paid 25 million dollars to hit 48 homeruns? you pro-rate his salary out vs other players who put up gawdy HR #s and arod turns into one of the most under-performing players in the game. i know he's a stud, i know he's valuable, and hell, he's the AL mvp, but let's not pretend teams would just run and 'love' to have arod if they could 'afford' him. he's a GIGANTIC oppurtunity cost. each and every time a carlos beltran signs elsewhere. or hell, that extra lefty setup guy...




:roflmao: :roflmao:

you just got nothin', huh? bring SOMETHING. you know, it's the offseason. think creatively. instead of just clicking some silly 'emoticon'.

Jace
11-21-05, 04:17 PM
i guess flexible, inexpensive players aren't as attractive to some as megalo-super stars such as a-rod, but come on. he's paid 25 million dollars to hit 48 homeruns? you pro-rate his salary out vs other players who put up gawdy HR #s and arod turns into one of the most under-performing players in the game. i know he's a stud, i know he's valuable, and hell, he's the AL mvp, but let's not pretend teams would just run and 'love' to have arod if they could 'afford' him. he's a GIGANTIC oppurtunity cost. each and every time a carlos beltran signs elsewhere. or hell, that extra lefty setup guy...


If we traded Arod for Figgins, Anaheim would only pay him 16 mil to hit those 48 HR. I don't understand why everyone always leaves that out, it seems like its purposeful just so you can say "$25 MILLION DOLARS OMG"

Tiger makes like $100 million a year as the highest grossing athlete in the world. We should start quoting his salary instead of A-rod's.

In any case I dont know if Freel is "god" enough for center.

BJG
11-21-05, 04:21 PM
i dunno about that. 'affording it' means what? being rich enough like texas was? like new york 'is'? arod's and other contracts forced them to rely on bernie AGAIN last season.

i guess flexible, inexpensive players aren't as attractive to some as megalo-super stars such as a-rod, but come on. he's paid 25 million dollars to hit 48 homeruns? you pro-rate his salary out vs other players who put up gawdy HR #s and arod turns into one of the most under-performing players in the game. i know he's a stud, i know he's valuable, and hell, he's the AL mvp, but let's not pretend teams would just run and 'love' to have arod if they could 'afford' him. he's a GIGANTIC oppurtunity cost. each and every time a carlos beltran signs elsewhere. or hell, that extra lefty setup guy...


AROD doesn't cost the Yankees $25M a year. He costs them about $16m. At that kind of market value, he provides an improvent at a single position unlike just about anyone else. That is not something that can neccesarily be made up spending the same money elsewhere, especially because of the position that Alex plays.

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 05:07 PM
I was going to comment in this thread, then I saw people advocating A-Rod for Figgins trades and how the Angels would turn that down.

The same Angels who are trying to trade for Manny Ramirez.

Really, my head is awash with an overload of supidity right now.

Panamaniac42
11-21-05, 05:16 PM
he's paid 25 million dollars to hit 48 homeruns?


Looks like you've been hanging out with Bob Klapisch and getting your facts from him.

swityak11
11-21-05, 05:28 PM
The Reds have zero incentive to trade a good cheap player that is currently their starting 2B and leadoff hitter. Especially since their best middle infield prospect, William Bergolla, doesn't project to be anything more than a utility guy.

Unless you blow the Reds away with an offer of quality pitching prospects, forget about it.

Agent007
12-10-05, 09:01 PM
Now that the Reds have acquired Womack, perhaps they would be more willing to trade Freel, if they got something they need. Apparently they are shopping around for a SP.

Do people think Freel would be worth Chacon if he fixed the CF issue. If not, what about deals involved Wright or Pavano in which the Yankees took to of the contract. Do people think Reed from Seattle is better than Freel?

jimmykey2
12-10-05, 09:06 PM
Do people think Freel would be worth Chacon if he fixed the CF issue. If not, what about deals involved Wright or Pavano in which the Yankees took to of the contract. Do people think Reed from Seattle is better than Freel?


NO. We all realize that it's difficult for the Yanks to find pitchers who can stomach the pressure of pitching in this town for this team. Chacon proved TIME and TIME again that he can deliver in tough spots for this team. Frankly, he was their best starting pitcher the last 2 months of the season (playoffs included).

Freel isn't better than Reed in one very important aspect, we have no clue whether he can play CF everyday in the Majors. Reed plays the position as well as anyone in baseball. However, Freel is a better offensive player than Reed at this point.

the_coach
12-10-05, 09:09 PM
I would trade Wright for Freel in a heartbeat, but I don't think the Reds are that dumb.