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ppa79
11-19-05, 12:50 PM
According to Peter Gammons and espn, the Yankees are in on Delgado.



The three teams in on Delgado are Baltimore, the Mets and Yankees.



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2229919

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 12:53 PM
I guess that means we have no interest in Delgado

cupcollector99
11-19-05, 12:59 PM
The Yanks are probably just in the mix to bring his value up. The Muts really want a bopper and can use him to force Boston's hand with Manny.
That being said, the team that needs him most is Baltimore and he'll probably end up there.

But then again, this is Gammons.

deranged2005
11-19-05, 01:00 PM
I guess that means we have no interest in Delgado

Bingo. We have a winner.

O Gammons...I hope he really doesn't believe this, but knowing ESPN, I'll see Gammons on Sportscenter saying "I really don't know why the Yankees are interesting in Delgado, but sources tell me they are. This could get interesting."

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-19-05, 01:02 PM
I am about 90% sure this wont happen, Gammons just wants to make it look like we are going for a big move for some reason, I guess it will get more people interested, thus making people watch ESPN for news more or something.

27IsNext
11-19-05, 01:21 PM
In other words, we have no interest whatsoever in Delgado.

Hey Gammons, has Pavano signed with Boston yet?

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 01:47 PM
In other words, we have no interest whatsoever in Delgado.

Hey Gammons, has Pavano signed with Boston yet? Unfortunately not.

Gammons clearly has "bold faced lie" policy regarding the Yankees.

apolansk
11-19-05, 01:52 PM
Whenever there is a big name that could possibly be moving anywhere it's always: Yankees, Red Sox, Baltimore, and the Mets. Sometimes Gammons forgets to write one or the other, and usually gets it wrong anyway.

Sam18
11-19-05, 01:53 PM
I heard Gammons say the Yankees are thinking about bringing back Canseco.

JDPNYY
11-19-05, 01:54 PM
Am I the only person who can't hit Control/alt/delete with one hand?

Sam18
11-19-05, 02:03 PM
Am I the only person who can't hit Control/alt/delete with one hand?

No, I've tried that many times and I just can't reach the delete button.

JDPNYY
11-19-05, 02:07 PM
No, I've tried that many times and I just can't reach the delete button.

The people I work with all can't believe I can't do it.

Sam18
11-19-05, 02:52 PM
The people I work with all can't believe I can't do it.

Well I'm typing from a Laptop so the ctl and alt buttons are far away from the del button.

JDPNYY
11-19-05, 02:54 PM
Well I'm typing from a Laptop so the ctl and alt buttons are far away from the del button.

Yeah, I wish I had a laptop computer. Alls I have are these nutty desktops. I can't even take it on a plane and play free cell.

Sam18
11-19-05, 02:58 PM
Yeah, I wish I had a laptop computer. Alls I have are these nutty desktops. I can't even take it on a plane and play free cell.

Be thankful that you have a desktop. I made a huge mistake by buying a laptop. Piece of sh*t is slow and has very little memory. And it freezes at the worst possible times.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-19-05, 03:12 PM
I guess that means we have no interest in Delgado

While my first instinct is to agree with you, since that old broad (Gammons) has been out of the loop on Yankee dealings for years, perhaps since his grandstanding in his box seats at Fenway against Randy Johnson coming to NY has gotten him shut out and he makes stuff up for filler, this might have some legs.

Think about the scenario here, and where the Yankees roster is. One way or another, this team is either missing a 1B/DH (depending on where Giambi plays), and a CF. The Giles situation is clearly a real option for the Yankees, they aren't even trying to hide their interest. But let's put together some of the other things we've seen and heard the past few days about the Yankees:

1) Pavano is pissed and wants out (granted a re-hash from last year).
2) Yankees have a surplus of pitching this year...but still were asking about Jarrod Washburn.
3) The Yankees have no interest in getting any sort of established "backup" first baseman to Giambi. Cashman has gone to some lengths to point out that it's Phillips job and even someone like Tino isn't necessary. The past few years, that backup first baseman, be it Tino, Tony Clark, or John Olerud has been the first baseman for long stretches. You really think they are going with Andy Phillips?

Florida is in slash and burn mode. I'm shocked that they are shopping Beckett, but they've attached their poison pill contract in Lowell with him. That will leave an openning in their rotation. Wouldn't, at this point, a Pavano for Delgado trade make sense, for both teams? Pavano has a pretty decent contract, and is coming off an injury that will reduce his value to get some real chips back (if he must be traded). The Marlins could absorb Pavano's whole deal, because Delgado still is making more so they get relief..and they get a pitcher who they know. The Yankees get another middle of the order hitter, and a guy who they were looking at when they tried to ditch Giambi but couldn't when the deal was unable to be voided. Delgado said last offseason his first choice was the Yankees, so you know he would be for this trade. And, at this moment, the Yankees have an openning at DH/1B, with Giambi taking one and the other is open. And for one more thing, for those thinking Sheffield is a DH and Crosby is in center, Torre was speaking that he sees Crosby as a defensive replacement, not an everyday player. So at the end of the day...if Giles works out and you see Pavano for Delgado:

Jeter SS
Giles CF
ARod 3B
Delgado DH
Sheffield RF
Matsui LF
Giambi 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B

Rotation: Johnson, Mussina, Wang, Chacon, Wright.

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 03:15 PM
Gammons isn't a liar. He's not a kook, either. Most baseball insiders view him as one of the more knowledgable and reliable guys regarding rumors, largely because he's in bed with every GM in the league. If the information he gets from GMs is unreliable, or doesn't end up happening, that doesn't mean he didn't hear it. He's reporting rumors, and they often don't end up coming true. That being said, I don't think we're in on Delgado. This may be to show Joe Bick that we have interests that don't include Brian Giles.

Blokee
11-19-05, 03:17 PM
If we are in for Delgado (which I doubt) then maybe it is if Konerko ups sticks and we trade Delgado for Rowand?

Boricua21
11-19-05, 03:18 PM
We won't get Delgado. I would welcome him with a huge smile though.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-19-05, 03:24 PM
Hmmm...wonder if there is anything to this from Rotoworld:

"The White Sox have interest in acquiring Juan Pierre, perhaps for Damaso Marte and/or Aaron Rowand.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but with multiple sources reporting the story, there must be some truth to it. Pierre is both a worse player than Rowand and the more expensive of the two. Plus, he'd only be under the club's control for one year. If the White Sox do decide they need Pierre to go along with Scott Podsednik, they should at least refuse to give up Rowand in the deal and try to use him to upgrade elsewhere."

http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6550

Wonder now if the Marlins try to then package Rowand and Delgado to the Yankees...much like packaging Lowell with Beckett to get the deal done. Very interesting.

njdhockey
11-19-05, 03:29 PM
I hope this is just another of Gammons bs. I really do not think Delgado is necessary at all. Right now the we have bigger needs and Giambi will be able to hold down 1B till Duncan is ready.

ppa79
11-19-05, 03:33 PM
If the Yankees are asking about Delgado, Beckett has to be included in the deal. The Yankees have no need for Delgado. He is owed way too much money the next few years.

2006 = 13.5M
2007 = 14.4M
2008 = 16M
2009 = 12M or 4M buyout

What scares me a little is that if Boston can trade Manny, then they could pull off a trade for Delgado and Beckett trade. Or they could do Lowell and Beckett. Lowell is owed 18M for the next two years. I can see Boston biting the bullet on Lowell to get Beckett. I don't want Boston getting Beckett.

Yankyfan
11-19-05, 03:33 PM
With the GBA thing I'm more then shocked if this is true.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 03:34 PM
I hope this is just another of Gammons bs. I really do not think Delgado is necessary at all. Right now the we have bigger needs and Giambi will be able to hold down 1B till Duncan is ready.

A-friggin'-men! Point taken and agreed with. Rowand is our hope for the future.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 03:35 PM
If the Yankees are asking about Delgado, Beckett has to be included in the deal. The Yankees have no need for Delgado. He is owed way too much money the next few years.

2006 = 13.5M
2007 = 14.4M
2008 = 16M
2009 = 12M or 4M buyout

What scares me a little is that if Boston can trade Manny, then they could pull off a trade for Delgado and Beckett trade. I don't want Boston getting Beckett.

Ouch. Delgado and Ortiz. That just sucks. Can we please bring back the mojo bunny?

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 03:36 PM
]

Wonder now if the Marlins try to then package Rowand and Delgado to the Yankees...much like packaging Lowell with Beckett to get the deal done. Very interesting.

That would be mind-blowing, but doesn't it feel too pie-in-the-skyish?

ppa79
11-19-05, 03:37 PM
Ouch. Delgado and Ortiz. That just sucks. Can we please bring back the mojo bunny?

And think if they also got Beckett too.

nickzcool51
11-19-05, 03:38 PM
Am I the only person who can't hit Control/alt/delete with one hand?

right now i can't but thats because i jammed 3 fingers playin football an hour ago and it feels awkward moving them like that.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 04:12 PM
right now i can't but thats because i jammed 3 fingers playin football an hour ago and it feels awkward moving them like that.

Did you score a touchdown though? Remember, the older you get, the better you were. Now, next year, you can tell people you dove over a barb-wired fence and fell into a concrete ditch to get a touchdown.

Kickyt
11-19-05, 04:55 PM
Could the Yankees be looking at Delgado to spin off into another trade to get a player they want or to keep a rival from getting the player they want?

YankeeStripes
11-19-05, 05:40 PM
I'd rather have Beckett. They would have to take Lowell, but they could trade Lowell somewhere.

Bernie Inferno
11-19-05, 05:47 PM
Could the Yankees be looking at Delgado to spin off into another trade to get a player they want or to keep a rival from getting the player they want?

Judging by the other teams allegedly interested (Baltimore, The Mets), I doubt it. Nothing matches up.

Zimmers' Helmet
11-19-05, 05:48 PM
If there is any truth to this rumor, and the Yankees still sign Brian Giles; it looks like Sheffield becomes a trading chip.

How many corner outfielders and DH's does this team need?

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 05:52 PM
Gammons isn't a liar. He lied over and over again throughout the offseason about Pavano being a Red So fan.

YankeeFan1
11-19-05, 06:47 PM
Jeez, don't the Yankees have enough part-time DHs as it stands.

Seamonk
11-19-05, 07:19 PM
In other words, we have no interest whatsoever in Delgado.

Hey Gammons, has Pavano signed with Boston yet?

I'm kinda wishing he was right about that one...

;)

DanB
11-19-05, 08:29 PM
What's wrong with Lowell...at least you know he's good for a defensive out every few years with the hidden ball trick.

surge511
11-19-05, 08:33 PM
Frankly, I have no idea what the Yankees are up to, and I don't think any other fan knows, either. There have been so many perplexing rumors flying, I don't know what to belive. All I know is that Cash has a plan, and we are going to wake up some morning, and our team will look a lot different than the day before.

Just remember what happened with the Justice trade. I remember hearing Sosa and maybe JuanGone, and then all of a sudden, David Justice is on the team. I have no idea what Cash is up to, but he definitely has me interested.

Rich
11-19-05, 09:18 PM
His contract is awful, and I don't want to tie up the DH position unless Sheff is traded because he can't play RF much longer.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-19-05, 09:22 PM
His contract is awful, and I don't want to tie up the DH position unless Sheff is traded because he can't play RF much longer.

I think Sheff is gone after next year no matter what.

surge511
11-19-05, 09:24 PM
I think Sheff is gone after next year no matter what.

Agreed. He is getting old, he will want a big contract, and his defense is getting worse. Plus, he will only get more cranky. Plus we already have our future DH in Giambi.

Rich
11-19-05, 09:28 PM
I think Sheff is gone after next year no matter what.

In terms of ability, I think he could fill an Edgar Martinez like role for the next few years, but his mouth may in fact cause him to be gone.

Murcer'swerebest
11-19-05, 09:52 PM
I hate to be in the position of defending Gammons but I think folks are going a little overboard on him. He repeats what he's told. Sometimes people intentionally tell him lies for whatever reason.

Remember in moneyball? IIRC, Beane had only started to look into Ricardo Rincon and planted a story with Gammons that the deal was practically locked up to try and get any other potential suitors to look elsewhere.

Don't you think the Marlins might put the word out there that the yanks are in on it to light a fire under the Mets' butts? Or the Orioles' butts? Or Boston's butts?

What do you expect Gammons to do? Larry Beinfest tells him that the marlins are talking to the yanks and maybe Cashman doesn't categorically deny any interest. Voila. New story.

Sometimes the things told to Louella Parsons and Hedda Hopper were true, too.

JDPNYY
11-19-05, 09:58 PM
I hate to be in the position of defending Gammons but I think folks are going a little overboard on him. He repeats what he's told. Sometimes people intentionally tell him lies for whatever reason.

Remember in moneyball? IIRC, Beane had only started to look into Ricardo Rincon and planted a story with Gammons that the deal was practically locked up to try and get any other potential suitors to look elsewhere.

Don't you think the Marlins might put the word out there that the yanks are in on it to light a fire under the Mets' butts? Or the Orioles' butts? Or Boston's butts?

What do you expect Gammons to do? Larry Beinfest tells him that the marlins are talking to the yanks and maybe Cashman doesn't categorically deny any interest. Voila. New story.

Sometimes the things told to Louella Parsons and Hedda Hopper were true, too.

So you're saying that Gammons is in no way shape or form a Sports Reporter, he's simply a Sports Gossip Columnist. I see.

Murcer'swerebest
11-19-05, 10:00 PM
Largely, yes. I'd say he's about 2/3 gossip columnist with a terrific rolodex and about 1/3 real journalist.

JDPNYY
11-19-05, 10:03 PM
Largely, yes. I'd say he's about 2/3 gossip columnist with a terrific rolodex and about 1/3 real journalist.

I think the 1/3 part is grossly exaggerated.

Dooley Womack
11-19-05, 11:28 PM
I think the 1/3 part is grossly exaggerated.

As do I. Gammons is the Mike Walker (The Enquirer) of baseball.

mycroft
11-20-05, 09:55 AM
Gammons and Lupica are twin sons from different mothers. He probably heard someone in the orginization metion Delgado's name and poof, a story.

Bloodshot
11-20-05, 10:12 AM
He probably heard someone in the orginization metion Delgado's name and poof, a story.

Actually, someone in the Yankee organization said "Pavano gadda go", and that was close enough.

buntsalot2
11-20-05, 07:54 PM
Newsday is now picking up the same story.

IMHO there is an artificial ceiling on salaries... meaning that the players have deluded themselves into thinking the owners have blank checks. 50M for AJ is ludicris... (see Jeff Weaver for great expectations, not :o ).

Delgado is available. Is NY interested? Hmmm... peripherely maybe. Definitely could work if he is the regular guy and Jason rides the pine as DH. Poor Tino. Am I interested? uh-huh. He has a 30-40 potential in HR and plays a decent D at first.

iodon
11-21-05, 11:23 AM
My favorite Gammons lie is that he was "inducted" into the Hall of Fame. He loves to tell a story about Willie Mays telling him that he's "one of them". It's all a sham. He is not a member of the hall of fame. He's part of an exhibit in the library. That's all. On the HoF website, it specifically says that receiving the award should not be confused with being an inductee into the HoF. Check it out:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/spink_bios/index.htm

Gammons is only good for a laugh.

I Love Wang
11-21-05, 11:30 AM
My favorite Gammons lie is that he was "inducted" into the Hall of Fame. He loves to tell a story about Willie Mays telling him that he's "one of them". It's all a sham. He is not a member of the hall of fame. He's part of an exhibit in the library. That's all. On the HoF website, it specifically says that receiving the award should not be confused with being an inductee into the HoF. Check it out:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/spink_bios/index.htm

Gammons is only good for a laugh.

Wow, I really didn't know this.

Sam18
11-21-05, 11:31 AM
My favorite Gammons lie is that he was "inducted" into the Hall of Fame. He loves to tell a story about Willie Mays telling him that he's "one of them". It's all a sham. He is not a member of the hall of fame. He's part of an exhibit in the library. That's all. On the HoF website, it specifically says that receiving the award should not be confused with being an inductee into the HoF. Check it out:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/spink_bios/index.htm

Gammons is only good for a laugh.

:lol:
BTW I love your sig.

MiamiKat
11-21-05, 12:01 PM
My favorite Gammons lie is that he was "inducted" into the Hall of Fame. He loves to tell a story about Willie Mays telling him that he's "one of them". It's all a sham. He is not a member of the hall of fame. He's part of an exhibit in the library. That's all. On the HoF website, it specifically says that receiving the award should not be confused with being an inductee into the HoF. Check it out:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/spink_bios/index.htm

Gammons is only good for a laugh.
I'm laughing now.

Thanks for the info.

SubwayFanatic
11-21-05, 12:37 PM
At this risk of sounding like a Gammons apologist, does every thread that pertains to anything he says or writes have to turn into the predictable, "Gammons sux! He has no idea what he is talking about!" nonsense?

iodon
11-21-05, 12:48 PM
At this risk of sounding like a Gammons apologist, does every thread that pertains to anything he says or writes have to turn into the predictable, "Gammons sux! He has no idea what he is talking about!" nonsense?


Can you honestly not expect the reputation of the source not to play a part in the discussion of the material proved by the source? This sort of thing happens in debates on all subjects. You wouldn't just believe a person that claims he has information on the President without considering his reputation. And at this point I would almost believe an Elvis sighting before I could believe a MLB related rumor provided by Gammons.

THEBOSS84
11-21-05, 12:52 PM
Can you honestly not expect the reputation of the source not to play a part in the discussion of the material proved by the source? This sort of thing happens in debates on all subjects. You wouldn't just believe a person that claims he has information on the President without considering his reputation. And at this point I would almost believe an Elvis sighting before I could believe a MLB related rumor provided by Gammons.

Btw in my opinion, the source that usually gets most everything right is Newsday's Jon Heyman...

SubwayFanatic
11-21-05, 12:54 PM
Can you honestly not expect the reputation of the source not to play a part in the discussion of the material proved by the source? This sort of thing happens in debates on all subjects. You wouldn't just believe a person that claims he has information on the President without considering his reputation. And at this point I would almost believe an Elvis sighting before I could believe a MLB related rumor provided by Gammons.

Okay. But why bother reading or caring about anything Gammons says then?

aeromac76
11-21-05, 01:02 PM
At this risk of sounding like a Gammons apologist, does every thread that pertains to anything he says or writes have to turn into the predictable, "Gammons sux! He has no idea what he is talking about!" nonsense?

Well the thing is, Gammons brings it on himself. I think most people, even Yankee fans, understand that he is a Red Sox fan, and other than the chiding because of that, no one would give him crap about it.
But he uses his fan-dom to report on things that are based in large part on his allegiance and less on facts. He is being paid to be informative, but he comes across as a guy who reports what he hopes will happen rather than what actually may happen. Sure, when speculation is involved, there is always a chance of being right or wrong, but he always seems to be incorrect. And it is not just unlucky incorrect, he is incorrect because he leans on his allegiance to Boston.
He reported the Arod to Boston trade as a done deal. Then it broke off. When the Yankees started sniffing, he said "no chance" he goes to the Yankees, eother he stays with Texas or Boston would eventually work something out.
Well at the end of the day, after reporting on that the way he did, he comes off as foolish, and his Red Sox ties only add to people's belief that he wanted Boston to get him so he reported as such, and he did not want to Yankees to get him and reported that.
His inconsistency on Pavano was laughable prior to this year. Carl was a Sox fan growing up according to Gammons and had all the guts needs to be a great complement to a Sox rotation that was lead by Schilling. Pavano would be great for Boston because he has guts, look at how he pitched against the Yankees in the WS. Then he signs with the Yankees and all of a sudden, Gammons pulls an all back full. Now Pavano is no longer the up and coming young gunslinger with guts to stare down a big time playoff opponent in their own house, now he turns into a pitcher with a history of injury trouble, a guy with a small town makeup too fragile for NY, and a guy with a below .500 career record. Forget that Carl did not endear himself to us this year, Gammons said all this before the season. It just sounds like a fan who ate some sour grapes. No consistency.
He pronounced the Randy Johnson deal dead at Christmas last year. Even when every reporter around the nation was saying they'll get it done, just give it time, Gammons kept saying the world was wrong on baseball tonight, that the Yankees had him but blew their chance and now it was over.

Look, I know we all sometimes here look at the world through Yankee colored glasses, but I am not stupid enough to go on the air and pronounce Brian Giles to be a Yankee, just a matter of time. I desperately want it to be so, but if I were reporting facts, odds are, he ain't coming here.
Not to mention, when you are wrong about something, your credibiity goes up when you admit your misread, this man never does.

Karl Ravech, also of baseball tonight, is a die hard Sox fan as far as I know, but he does not get the blasting here because while on the air, he keeps his loyalties out of his reporting and comes across as credible. Gammons just does not...

gold23
11-21-05, 01:11 PM
I used to enjoy the Sunday Boston Globe for Gammons' articles. They were great. I enjoy his espn columns, and enjoy listening to him on the air.

Do many of the things he reports not pan out? Of course. But I suspect much of what he reports IS actually being discussed. He has a terrific network inside baseball.

Also....while I don't see his blatant Red Sox allegiance any more, is it such a terrible thing for a journalist to have a slight bias? Don't give me the "ESPN is a national source, and as such, they all need to be unbiased."

If you truly love the game, the ability to be non-biased is unbelievably difficult- if not impossible. If it is just a job, sure- no problem. But Gammons LOVES the game, and he's a terrific writer. I don't get all of the hatred.

THEBOSS84
11-21-05, 01:14 PM
I used to enjoy the Sunday Boston Globe for Gammons' articles. They were great. I enjoy his espn columns, and enjoy listening to him on the air.

Do many of the things he reports not pan out? Of course. But I suspect much of what he reports IS actually being discussed. He has a terrific network inside baseball.

Also....while I don't see his blatant Red Sox allegiance any more, is it such a terrible thing for a journalist to have a slight bias? Don't give me the "ESPN is a national source, and as such, they all need to be unbiased."

If you truly love the game, the ability to be non-biased is unbelievably difficult- if not impossible. If it is just a job, sure- no problem. But Gammons LOVES the game, and he's a terrific writer. I don't get all of the hatred.

I totally agree with you.
I happen to love Peter's work and think he has so much passion for the game.
I'll never forget watching him do Baseball Tonight after game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, and he did not seem rattled by that defeat at all. He is an excellent baseball mind, the kind that we don't have enough of.

gold23
11-21-05, 01:21 PM
I totally agree with you.
I happen to love Peter's work and think he has so much passion for the game.
I'll never forget watching him do Baseball Tonight after game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, and he did not seem rattled by that defeat at all. He is an excellent baseball mind, the kind that we don't have enough of.


People need to have read some of the things he used to write. Game stories, Sunday columns, his BA columns- just great baseball stuff. When I'd get my BA, first thing I'd do is turn to the 4th or 5th page on the inside left to read what Gammons was writing.

ieddyi
11-21-05, 01:21 PM
I totally agree with you.
I happen to love Peter's work and think he has so much passion for the game.
I'll never forget watching him do Baseball Tonight after game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, and he did not seem rattled by that defeat at all. He is an excellent baseball mind, the kind that we don't have enough of.

"He is an excellent baseball mind, "

....What a terrible thing to waste>......

iodon
11-21-05, 01:23 PM
Okay. But why bother reading or caring about anything Gammons says then?


Well, the thread title didn't say "Peter Gammons reports that the Yanks are in on Delgado", so was I supposed to guess before I read the thread that Gammons had a hand in this? I don't care about anything he says other than the HoF thing I mentioned earlier, because his/ESPN's statements tarnish what a lot of athletes have worked for by including him in that honor. Not once last summer did they qualify their remarks about his inclusion intot he HoF. I also hear him on a few radio shows carrying on about it himself. It should be noted that the HoF added the part about the award not being equal to an induction after both He and ESPN told the country he was being inducted.

ShaneTravis
11-21-05, 01:41 PM
Well, the thread title didn't say "Peter Gammons reports that the Yanks are in on Delgado", so was I supposed to guess before I read the thread that Gammons had a hand in this? I don't care about anything he says other than the HoF thing I mentioned earlier, because his/ESPN's statements tarnish what a lot of athletes have worked for by including him in that honor. Not once last summer did they qualify their remarks about his inclusion intot he HoF. I also hear him on a few radio shows carrying on about it himself. It should be noted that the HoF added the part about the award not being equal to an induction after both He and ESPN told the country he was being inducted.

Huh? Gammons went on the air and went on and on about being in the Hall?
I missed it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2123868

"Driving through the hills and farms of New York on Route 20, I thought a lot about the people who took me to this road to Cooperstown --"
"Peter officially joins the Hall of Fame family."
"The second was backstage before the ceremony. Willie Mays asked me to sign a ball. I looked at it, saw that it was signed by Hall of Fame players, and handed it back to him. "I'm not a Hall of Fame player," I said. He touched my shoulder and said, "you're one of us. Sign it." To be included by the best players alive for one weekend is beyond anyone's wildest, most childish dreams."

Peter has worked very hard and deserves attention---but I thought the article was at the very least a "Sally Field--You like me you really really like me" moment and at the most a very dellusional man actually thinking he was part of a club like one of these players he has covered for so long.

This part of the article really rubbed me the wrong way at the time. It reeked of his bias toward his hometown team. Notice the word "real", funny how that is shades of "real Yankee" nonsense we heard for awhile.

"We heard about it early Monday morning, and watching the real Hall of Famers mingle and go to their cars."

"Palmeiro never should have been allowed to play for a month with steroids and affect the integrity of the pennant race, and he did in a four-game series against Boston right before the All-Star break."

"But for the first time, there is a law in baseball concerning steroids. Rafael Palmeiro -- out of stupidity, for greed, avarice, whatever -- has broken that law. He can have his numbers, he can have his glory, he can have his money, but he has broken a law that now is an important part of the texture of the game, and he has chosen avarice over the Hall of Fame."

aeromac76
11-21-05, 03:19 PM
I used to enjoy the Sunday Boston Globe for Gammons' articles. They were great. I enjoy his espn columns, and enjoy listening to him on the air.

Do many of the things he reports not pan out? Of course. But I suspect much of what he reports IS actually being discussed. He has a terrific network inside baseball.

Also....while I don't see his blatant Red Sox allegiance any more, is it such a terrible thing for a journalist to have a slight bias? Don't give me the "ESPN is a national source, and as such, they all need to be unbiased."

If you truly love the game, the ability to be non-biased is unbelievably difficult- if not impossible. If it is just a job, sure- no problem. But Gammons LOVES the game, and he's a terrific writer. I don't get all of the hatred.

At face value, I agree with you. And no, I don't mind the bias. Heck I am a biased Yankee fan, but what I don't agree with is that all of the stuff he speaks on is being discussed. And he is not consistent.
As the free agent season opened last year at this time, Peter was high on Carl Pavano, and thought the Red Sox were the frontrunners for his services. Fine, no problem, I did too. I was a bit surprised when he signed with us. But what bothered me was Gammons' description of the player when he thought the Sox were favs to get him was glowing, after the Yankees signed him, the reports from Gammons dramatically shifted to negative. What changed? Other than where he signed, what changed? Nothing! But Gammons was seemingly talking about 2 different players, the Pavano who most thought was going to be a Red Sox was a perfect dominant starter, the Pavano who two weeks later signed with the Yankees was a mediocre risk not worth taking.
No matter how you turn it, that is indefensible. I want Brian Giles, I love him. I'd hate to see him go to Boston, but if he signed there tomorrow I would not sit here and say he stinks.. I'd root for him to stink, but your opinion of a player's ability cannot change as his uniform does.
Not to mention he reports more on what he hopes that what he hears, the whole planet thought the Unit to Yankees deal was still in the works last Christmas and he declared it dead.. On what basis? What did he know that every other reporter did not know?? Apparently nothing, because as most thought would happen, the deal was revisited and completed..

yankswn23
11-21-05, 03:49 PM
Be thankful that you have a desktop. I made a huge mistake by buying a laptop. Piece of sh*t is slow and has very little memory. And it freezes at the worst possible times.
My laptop is huge, it has a 17 in WS a GB of Memory and loads of good stuff, but it is a pain to carry around, I got a psp that I will be playing games and listening to music on.

gold23
11-21-05, 04:11 PM
At face value, I agree with you. And no, I don't mind the bias. Heck I am a biased Yankee fan, but what I don't agree with is that all of the stuff he speaks on is being discussed. And he is not consistent.
As the free agent season opened last year at this time, Peter was high on Carl Pavano, and thought the Red Sox were the frontrunners for his services. Fine, no problem, I did too. I was a bit surprised when he signed with us. But what bothered me was Gammons' description of the player when he thought the Sox were favs to get him was glowing, after the Yankees signed him, the reports from Gammons dramatically shifted to negative. What changed? Other than where he signed, what changed? Nothing! But Gammons was seemingly talking about 2 different players, the Pavano who most thought was going to be a Red Sox was a perfect dominant starter, the Pavano who two weeks later signed with the Yankees was a mediocre risk not worth taking.
No matter how you turn it, that is indefensible. I want Brian Giles, I love him. I'd hate to see him go to Boston, but if he signed there tomorrow I would not sit here and say he stinks.. I'd root for him to stink, but your opinion of a player's ability cannot change as his uniform does.
Not to mention he reports more on what he hopes that what he hears, the whole planet thought the Unit to Yankees deal was still in the works last Christmas and he declared it dead.. On what basis? What did he know that every other reporter did not know?? Apparently nothing, because as most thought would happen, the deal was revisited and completed..


He is certainly a pawn in the game. There is no question that some execs feed Gammons information to either cast a shadow on their movements or discusssions or to mislead him down a path at times.

He spoke at the baseball writer's dinner a few years back, and he brought up this point. He said that to be good at what he does, he needs to report things that high level execs tell him- if they turn out to be flat lying, he does his best to not use them again. But he said he is mostly receiving day old information (still ahead of most of the pack), and that things change so much in the time lapse between what he is told and what is happening that he is made to look foolish quite often. It was a fascinating 5 minutes.

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 04:27 PM
Don't be so sure the Yankees aren't a part of this.

Flip Delgado to the White Sox and they replace Konerko. Get Rowand and Marte in return. Throw in some cash to make it worthwhile for the Sox to bring in the third team.

ppa79
11-21-05, 04:35 PM
Don't be so sure the Yankees aren't a part of this.

Flip Delgado to the White Sox and they replace Konerko. Get Rowand and Marte in return. Throw in some cash to make it worthwhile for the Sox to bring in the third team.

That is a interesting proposal. I wonder who the Yankees would have to give up.

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 04:48 PM
That is a interesting proposal. I wonder who the Yankees would have to give up.

http://highandtight.blogspot.com/2005/11/gammons-yankees-in-on-delgado.html

Carl Pavano + B prospect to Florida
Carlos Delgado + cash to the White Sox
Damaso Marte and Aaron Rowand to the Yankees

yankswn23
11-21-05, 04:53 PM
If the Yankees are asking about Delgado, Beckett has to be included in the deal. The Yankees have no need for Delgado. He is owed way too much money the next few years.

2006 = 13.5M
2007 = 14.4M
2008 = 16M
2009 = 12M or 4M buyout

What scares me a little is that if Boston can trade Manny, then they could pull off a trade for Delgado and Beckett trade. Or they could do Lowell and Beckett. Lowell is owed 18M for the next two years. I can see Boston biting the bullet on Lowell to get Beckett. I don't want Boston getting Beckett.

Boston is going to probably Lose.. Manny and Wells, we dont know what to make of schilling and with no bat to back Ortiz that is going to hurt there big DH, I think the Red SOX finish toward the bottom next year prob third behind the Yankees and then the Orioles, if they get rid of manny no matter who they pick up, I think Delgado is not as good of a hitter as manny and I would rather face Delgado with the game on the line then ortiz, I think if Beckett goes there it might replace one pitcher but who are the other starters? He is also going to have to adjust playing in a big market city and getting constant press..mmmm pavano ring a bell, not to mention adjusting to the fierce AL.

Python Patrol
11-21-05, 04:56 PM
well we shouldve just signed him after 2004 when he was a free agent.

ppa79
11-21-05, 04:57 PM
well we shouldve just signed him after 2004 when he was a free agent.

Why? We don't need another DH/1st baseman making 15M

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 05:00 PM
While my first instinct is to agree with you, since that old broad (Gammons) has been out of the loop on Yankee dealings for years, perhaps since his grandstanding in his box seats at Fenway against Randy Johnson coming to NY has gotten him shut out and he makes stuff up for filler, this might have some legs.

Think about the scenario here, and where the Yankees roster is. One way or another, this team is either missing a 1B/DH (depending on where Giambi plays), and a CF. The Giles situation is clearly a real option for the Yankees, they aren't even trying to hide their interest. But let's put together some of the other things we've seen and heard the past few days about the Yankees:

1) Pavano is pissed and wants out (granted a re-hash from last year).
2) Yankees have a surplus of pitching this year...but still were asking about Jarrod Washburn.
3) The Yankees have no interest in getting any sort of established "backup" first baseman to Giambi. Cashman has gone to some lengths to point out that it's Phillips job and even someone like Tino isn't necessary. The past few years, that backup first baseman, be it Tino, Tony Clark, or John Olerud has been the first baseman for long stretches. You really think they are going with Andy Phillips?

Florida is in slash and burn mode. I'm shocked that they are shopping Beckett, but they've attached their poison pill contract in Lowell with him. That will leave an openning in their rotation. Wouldn't, at this point, a Pavano for Delgado trade make sense, for both teams? Pavano has a pretty decent contract, and is coming off an injury that will reduce his value to get some real chips back (if he must be traded). The Marlins could absorb Pavano's whole deal, because Delgado still is making more so they get relief..and they get a pitcher who they know. The Yankees get another middle of the order hitter, and a guy who they were looking at when they tried to ditch Giambi but couldn't when the deal was unable to be voided. Delgado said last offseason his first choice was the Yankees, so you know he would be for this trade. And, at this moment, the Yankees have an openning at DH/1B, with Giambi taking one and the other is open. And for one more thing, for those thinking Sheffield is a DH and Crosby is in center, Torre was speaking that he sees Crosby as a defensive replacement, not an everyday player. So at the end of the day...if Giles works out and you see Pavano for Delgado:

Jeter SS
Giles CF
ARod 3B
Delgado DH
Sheffield RF
Matsui LF
Giambi 1B
Posada C
Cano 2B

Rotation: Johnson, Mussina, Wang, Chacon, Wright.
If Giambi's OBP is placed 7th in a lineup I will throw up all over myself.

yankswn23
11-21-05, 05:12 PM
I think Delgado will be traded to the Yankees, then be spun off to the whitesox for Marte, and Rowand, satisfys everyone Whitesox replace losing Konerko/Thomas with Delgado, the yanks pay for some of the salary of Delgado, get the reliever Marte that they need and the CF rowand who had a great audition in CF last year.

Stupid Flanders
11-21-05, 05:20 PM
I think Delgado will be traded to the Yankees, then be spun off to the whitesox for Marte, and Rowand, satisfys everyone Whitesox replace losing Konerko/Thomas with Delgado, the yanks pay for some of the salary of Delgado, get the reliever Marte that they need and the CF rowand who had a great audition in CF last year.If that's the case I want Buster Olney's job

ShaneTravis
11-21-05, 05:59 PM
2 cents--Does anybody else find the Delgado saga a little strange? This bothered me at the time of the signing---Why did the Marlins sign a guy to a pretty hefty contract when the stadium/Lowell issue was in the news at the time?

Florida has been crying poverty for the last few years, yet they go out and sign one of the premier free agents to a very competive contract. Which they hugely back load, and don't give him a limited no-trade clause.

Delgado made 4 million in 2005. 4 MILLION for one of the top power hitters in the game. .301 .399 .582 also 33 homers and 115 Rbi's.

The Marlins knew there was interest from Balt., Mets and Yanks when they signed him. I am not saying that this was their plan all along...but, it sure smells fishy.

When all is said and done, Florida got a one year cheap Carlos, unload 48 million from their payroll and might get some very good prospects to boot.

Carlos got the bait and switch.

NYDCYankee
11-22-05, 03:40 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/22/this_marlin_a_pretty_big_fish_for_sox_to_land/?page=2

Edes mentions the Yankees jumped in on Delgado yesterday...I like the idea of flipping him to the WS BTW.

ppa79
11-22-05, 07:20 AM
I think Delgado will be traded to the Yankees, then be spun off to the whitesox for Marte, and Rowand, satisfys everyone Whitesox replace losing Konerko/Thomas with Delgado, the yanks pay for some of the salary of Delgado, get the reliever Marte that they need and the CF rowand who had a great audition in CF last year.

I want Cotts instead of Marte. Delgado + cash is too much for Rowand and Marte

YankeeStripes
11-22-05, 09:49 AM
I like the idea of a Delgado trade, cause we likely would not have to give up too much if we take his whole salary. Hey, it's not my money.

gold23
11-22-05, 09:52 AM
I want Cotts instead of Marte. Delgado + cash is too much for Rowand and Marte

Chisox likely laugh at anyone interested in Cotts, though.

ppa79
11-22-05, 11:28 AM
Chisox likely laugh at anyone interested in Cotts, though.

Then forget it. Then there is no way I give them Delgado.

gdn
11-22-05, 01:23 PM
This does puzzle me. The only reason for being "in" on Delgado would be to trade him to another team. What if the WS keep Konerko, though. Then what? Are we stuck with Delgado and short a pitcher?

surge511
11-22-05, 03:13 PM
Jaret Wright had the same record and a lower ERA in 2004 than Beckett's 2005 season. Those were career years for both players. Beckett just has NL, not durable pitcher written all over him.

JeffWeaverFan
11-22-05, 03:16 PM
Jaret Wright had the same record and a lower ERA in 2004 than Beckett's 2005 season. Those were career years for both players. Beckett just has NL, not durable pitcher written all over him.
Beckett has been a very good pitcher since 2003. To compare him to Jaret Wright is just wrong. Jaret Wright's injury problems were incredibly greater than Beckett's. Wright had just pitched under the great Leo Mazzone.

After doing some quick, rough math, I expect Beckett to have a 4.15 ERA next season.

Yankees13
11-22-05, 03:51 PM
Beckett has been a very good pitcher since 2003. To compare him to Jaret Wright is just wrong. Jaret Wright's injury problems were incredibly greater than Beckett's. Wright had just pitched under the great Leo Mazzone.

After doing some quick, rough math, I expect Beckett to have a 4.15 ERA next season.
I would expect him to be in that range as well, maybe a .1 or .2 higher.

Yanks Lifer
11-22-05, 04:26 PM
This does puzzle me. The only reason for being "in" on Delgado would be to trade him to another team. What if the WS keep Konerko, though. Then what? Are we stuck with Delgado and short a pitcher?


I'm not so sure about that. Right now this team is without a legitimate DH. IF, and it's a big IF, Delgado can be had cheaply (player wise) with say Mota and Villone for the pen it would help.

Stupid Flanders
11-22-05, 04:33 PM
Then forget it. Then there is no way I give them Delgado.
But.. you're not giving them Delgado. It's a three way trade....

Allan
11-22-05, 05:01 PM
Why wouldn't the White Sox deal with the Marlins directly?

BeantownYankee
11-22-05, 05:13 PM
I'm not so sure about that. Right now this team is without a legitimate DH. IF, and it's a big IF, Delgado can be had cheaply (player wise) with say Mota and Villone for the pen it would help.
Can he really be had cheaply? Or are the Fish (the new disgrace to baseball) going to start every conversation with the Yankees Cano & Wang then we talk? How long before the fish realize what a bonehead deal they made and try to fix it by trying to rip off another team?:D

Davios
11-22-05, 05:14 PM
Why wouldn't the White Sox deal with the Marlins directly?


Money I would have to imagine. That and the fact that the Marlins wouldn't want Rowand without ridding themselves of Pierre.

Sierra Mist
11-22-05, 06:44 PM
I am for bringing in Delgado, but I agree with others that we shouldve just signed him as a free agent.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-23-05, 08:05 AM
Forgetabboutit....

He's going to the Mets.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets112405,0,3173460.story?coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005

"The Mets have agreed to send righthanded pitching prospect Yusmeiro Petit and young first baseman Mike Jacobs to the Marlins for Delgado, according to someone familiar with the deal. As part of the deal, the Marlins will send $7 million back to the Mets to cover part of the $48 million remaining on Delgado's contract."

Yankee Bulldawg
11-23-05, 08:09 AM
geez the Mets must be super desperate to reach the playoffs next year

NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 08:46 AM
geez the Mets must be super desperate to reach the playoffs next year
They are following the old Yankee fomula of trade prospects for names, we will see how it works.

ShaneTravis
11-23-05, 08:59 AM
Forgetabboutit....

He's going to the Mets.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets112405,0,3173460.story?coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005

"The Mets have agreed to send righthanded pitching prospect Yusmeiro Petit and young first baseman Mike Jacobs to the Marlins for Delgado, according to someone familiar with the deal. As part of the deal, the Marlins will send $7 million back to the Mets to cover part of the $48 million remaining on Delgado's contract."

The Mets are resembling a kid in a candy store the past two off seasons.
Omar/Mets have let it known they are interested in Manny,Carlos,Javier,Soriano,Billy......
The Mets farm system is likely to be barren by opening day.
The payroll is going to be sky high...have to wait and see if it pans out.
I love Carlos but he really isn't a fit on the Yanks.

Brian = calm, patience, let the market play out.

Omar = fenetic, aggressive, set the market.

Time will tell who comes out on top.

Jasbro
11-23-05, 09:08 AM
geez the Mets must be super desperate to reach the playoffs next year

They are getting ready to launch their cable network and they need marquee names.

nyg02005
11-23-05, 10:07 AM
another topic to close.

Sam18
11-23-05, 10:08 AM
They are following the old Yankee fomula of trade prospects for names, we will see how it works.

Ofcourse they get praised for it while the Yankees used to get trashed for it. But whatever.

noneckwilliams
11-23-05, 11:13 AM
The Mets are resembling a kid in a candy store the past two off seasons.
Omar/Mets have let it known they are interested in Manny,Carlos,Javier,Soriano,Billy......
The Mets farm system is likely to be barren by opening day.
The payroll is going to be sky high...have to wait and see if it pans out.
I love Carlos but he really isn't a fit on the Yanks.

Brian = calm, patience, let the market play out.

Omar = fenetic, aggressive, set the market.

Time will tell who comes out on top.

Minaya has slid all his chips in the kitty. Good luck Omar.

I'm glad DelGado is now off the table - he made no sense for NYY.

BeantownYankee
11-23-05, 11:39 AM
The Mets are resembling a kid in a candy store the past two off seasons.
Omar/Mets have let it known they are interested in Manny,Carlos,Javier,Soriano,Billy......
The Mets farm system is likely to be barren by opening day.
The payroll is going to be sky high...have to wait and see if it pans out.
I love Carlos but he really isn't a fit on the Yanks.

Brian = calm, patience, let the market play out.

Omar = fenetic, aggressive, set the market.

Time will tell who comes out on top.

You got to love it as a Yankee Fan. All the crap you hear from Met fans about buying a championship...etc...well all I can say is Welcome to the club...Someone better keep George away from the Newspapers, tv, and radio. 1st the Sox make a big splash, now the Mets..he's got to be liking that not!

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 11:43 AM
You got to love it as a Yankee Fan. All the crap you hear from Met fans about buying a championship...etc...well all I can say is Welcome to the club...Someone better keep George away from the Newspapers, tv, and radio. 1st the Sox make a big splash, now the Mets..he's got to be liking that not!

As a Yankees fan I don't love it at all. Why should I love other teams improving themselves and watch them shake and bake while the bar lowers daily for players the Yanks seem to be seeking, whether by choice, inactivity, mismanagement, poor player evaluation or players not wanting to play for the Yanks or in certain roles?

It doesn't seem to stop Omar.

Sam18
11-23-05, 11:44 AM
You got to love it as a Yankee Fan. All the crap you hear from Met fans about buying a championship...etc...well all I can say is Welcome to the club...Someone better keep George away from the Newspapers, tv, and radio. 1st the Sox make a big splash, now the Mets..he's got to be liking that not!

And that's why I dislike George. He doesn't understand that all this stuff is actually good for the Yankees.

Sam18
11-23-05, 11:45 AM
As a Yankees fan I don't love it at all. Why should I love other teams improving themselves and watch them shake and bake while the bar lowers daily for players the Yanks seem to be seeking, whether by choice, inactivity, mismanagement, poor player evaluation or players not wanting to play for the Yanks or in certain roles?

It doesn't seem to stop Omar.

Dooley none of those deals made sense for the Yankees. Just because other teams are making foolish decisions and grabbing headlines, we should do the same?

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 11:45 AM
And that's why I dislike George. He doesn't understand that all this stuff is actually good for the Yankees.

Say it ain't so! Tell me you aren't drinking the water too!!

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 11:48 AM
Dooley none of those deals made sense for the Yankees. Just because other teams are making foolish decisions and grabbing headlines, we should do the same?

Who said the Yanks should have acquired who the Mets have? The Yanks definitely should have considered Beckett, and as I said, Delgado and Wagner not wanting to play in NY didn't stop Omar from setting up meetings and wheeling and dealing. He's showing true salesmanship by doing whatever it takes including letting players know they are wanted and belong, which is better than making a judgment by listening to a friend of a friend and then sitting still. Paul O'Neill didn't favor NY. Things sure can change once given the opportunity. Did Cashman ever call Ryan's agent or request a meeting? That's what I'd love to know.

Are you happy if the Yanks payroll goes down along with the quality of the product on the field so you can say, "Haha! The Mets and Sox are spending more?!"

RI Dawg
11-23-05, 11:48 AM
ESPN Bottom Line breaking news has Delgado to Mets in a trade.....

Sam18
11-23-05, 12:08 PM
Say it ain't so! Tell me you aren't drinking the water too!!

You didn't know I dislike George?


Who said the Yanks should have acquired who the Mets have? The Yanks definitely should have considered Beckett, and as I said, Delgado and Wagner not wanting to play in NY didn't stop Omar from setting up meetings and wheeling and dealing. He's showing true salesmanship by doing whatever it takes including letting players know they are wanted and belong, which is better than making a judgment by listening to a friend of a friend and then sitting still. Paul O'Neill didn't favor NY. Things sure can change once given the opportunity. Did Cashman ever call Ryan's agent or request a meeting? That's what I'd love to know.

Are you happy if the Yanks payroll goes down along with the quality of the product on the field so you can say, "Haha! The Mets and Sox are spending more?!"


I'm pretty sure Cashman called BJ and I'm pretty sure BJ said "no I'd like to close". Unless Cashman is a retard(which I doubt). I could care less if our payroll was 300 million but if the talent we have didn't match the payroll then the GM is doing something wrong. And Dooley please don't praise Omar, he's a fool who has money to play with and is gonna give out ridiculous contracts to everyone. This is the same fool that thinks Soriano is gonna help them improve their team OBP.

noneckwilliams
11-23-05, 12:08 PM
As a Yankees fan I don't love it at all. Why should I love other teams improving themselves and watch them shake and bake while the bar lowers daily for players the Yanks seem to be seeking, whether by choice, inactivity, mismanagement, poor player evaluation or players not wanting to play for the Yanks or in certain roles?

It doesn't seem to stop Omar.

Have patience. The Yankees have Giambi - why go after DelGado? When I see some young OFers moving around then maybe I'll get frustrated but the fact that the RS landed Beckett and the Mets got DelGado has nothing to do with the Yankees.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:15 PM
Have patience. The Yankees have Giambi - why go after DelGado? When I see some young OFers moving around then maybe I'll get frustrated but the fact that the RS landed Beckett and the Mets got DelGado has nothing to do with the Yankees.

For one, Delgado is better than Giambi. I keep saying that the Yanks shouldn't be held hostage over Giambi's inability to DH. The Mets got Delgado for a song and a dance. Seems many teams are able to pull off these kind of deals with desperate ballclubs.

noneck, I'd have patience if all the good to great players available weren't dwindling and jumped on by other clubs before our eyes. We'll end up with the typical bums that Cashman's fan's will applaud by saying how much potential they have and how we had to give up nothing, and not even a single soul from our "stupendous" farm system. Then some will wet their pants talking about how the Yankees payroll has decreased, as if it's their own money. We've been down that road too many times lately.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:19 PM
I'm pretty sure Cashman called BJ and I'm pretty sure BJ said "no I'd like to close". Unless Cashman is a retard(which I doubt). I could care less if our payroll was 300 million but if the talent we have didn't match the payroll then the GM is doing something wrong. And Dooley please don't praise Omar, he's a fool who has money to play with and is gonna give out ridiculous contracts to everyone. This is the same fool that thinks Soriano is gonna help them improve their team OBP.

I'd bet my house that IF Cashman called (reports seem to indicate he didn't) that no meeting was set up to even discuss why he didn't want to play for the Yanks in a set-up role and to be given the opportunity to change his mind. Then again, you may be right.

As for Omar, don't underestimate this sick puppy. He's in the process of building a team that will soon be superior to the Yanks. Who cares how much of the Met's money it took? I'm sure Mets fans who were jealous of George's money and payroll care. I wouldn't if I rooted for them.

JDPNYY
11-23-05, 12:19 PM
I'd bet my house that IF Cashman called (reports seem to indicate he didn't) that no meeting was set up to even discuss why he didn't want to play for the Yanks in a set-up role and to be given the opportunity to change his mind. Then again, you may be right.

As for Omar, don't underestimate this sick puppy. He's in the process of building a team that will soon be superior to the Yanks. Who cares how much of the Met's money it took? I'm sure Mets fans who were jealous of George's money and payroll care. I wouldn't if I rooted for them.

Here ya go...

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91100

nojoke
11-23-05, 12:20 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5107928

Went to the Mets

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:25 PM
Here ya go...

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91100

Not sure if you're implying I'm one of those fans or the reason why some players don't come to NY and that the Yanks choices are limited.

If the former, I suppose that trashing Tampa, Mel, Joe and GS (perhaps for good reason; maybe not) is any different than trashing Cashman for my own good reasons?

Sam18
11-23-05, 12:25 PM
I'd bet my house that IF Cashman called (reports seem to indicate he didn't) that no meeting was set up to even discuss why he didn't want to play for the Yanks in a set-up role and to be given the opportunity to change his mind. Then again, you may be right.

As for Omar, don't underestimate this sick puppy. He's in the process of building a team that will soon be superior to the Yanks. Who cares how much of the Met's money it took? I'm sure Mets fans who were jealous of George's money and payroll care. I wouldn't if I rooted for them.

The mets have a limit on how much money they can spend(so do the Yankees). And within two or three years when Pedro's arm is long gone, when Glavine is finished(he might be already), when Reyes still can't get on base, when neither can Beltran, when Floyed becomes as old as Willy, aaaaaaallll those contracts are gonna hurt. I'm telling you Dooley, the mets are not headed down the right path. There's no fu*king way the mets are gonna be better than the Yankees anytime soon. We're not cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll, we're doing it so we can use the money saved wisely and not on veterans who's best days are behind them.

JDPNYY
11-23-05, 12:27 PM
Not sure if you're implying I'm one of those fans or the reason why some players don't come to NY.

If the former, I suppose that trashing Tampa, Mel, Joe and GS (perhaps for good reason; maybe not) is any different than trashing Cashman for my own good reasons?

No, no no no... not at all... sorry for any confusion.

I was just pointing out the one Thread on the Board where you haven't put down Cashman in the last 48 hours.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:28 PM
The mets have a limit on how much money they can spend(so do the Yankees). And within two or three years when Pedro's arm is long gone, when Glavine is finished(he might be already), when Reyes still can't get on base, when neither can Beltran, when Floyed becomes as old as Willy, aaaaaaallll those contracts are gonna hurt. I'm telling you Dooley, the mets are not headed down the right path. There's no fu*king way the mets are gonna be better than the Yankees anytime soon. We're not cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll, we're doing it so we can use the money saved wisely and not on veterans who's best days are behind them.

I see. The Yanks have a young team and a top farm system. Don't believe either. Plus, NY is the wrong place to expect patience while a team builds it's farm system. That has to coincide with good moves, and I'm barely seeing any moves period. And when did I say to spend money on vets whose better days are behind them? Also, what's money saved wisely mean? You know the plan?

You really don't think the Mets are on the road to being better than the Yanks? Hmmm.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:34 PM
No, no no no... not at all... sorry for any confusion.

I was just pointing out the one Thread on the Board where you haven't put down Cashman in the last 48 hours.
:lol: I see.

You know what, John? In my eyes, he's become Nero, only with more autonomy now. The last 48 hours have been very disappointing to me and at least to me, an indication that he's as bad a GM/talent evaluator as I've always thought. I'm not a happy man right now when it comes to the Yanks and seemingly, their lack of direction. Yeah it's early, but what can they possibly do with who's left to improve a team with glaring flaws? Cashman was happy with the staff- starting and relief-going into the last two seasons and was vocal about it. He's already stated he's happy with the SP. He sees no problems with acquiring F-Rod type of relievers, which I guaranty he'll be doing this off-season. He's mentioned Proctor as a possible set-up man. He's content with Phillips and Giambi at 1st, when an Olerud, Travis Lee and even Tino could be had on the cheap as insurance. He scares the hell out of me, especially when it comes to pitching.

Most importantly, BJ Ryan should be wearing pinstripes, and would have, if GS were involved, set-up or no set-up man. Sometimes (not always) it would be nice to utilize the old man, but he's not what he once was, and that's a shame in times like this, when you need that ONE crucial player like BJ.

StatenIslandYankee
11-23-05, 01:05 PM
I guess we can lock this one up.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:07 PM
I guess we can lock this one up.

I think the only thread that has a chance of remaining without getting locked up for a while is a Loaiza thread, but then again, it might get locked up when/if the Yanks get him back.

goin for 27
11-23-05, 01:08 PM
Dooley none of those deals made sense for the Yankees. Just because other teams are making foolish decisions and grabbing headlines, we should do the same?

But that is not the case. The Mets pulled a great trade for Delgado, and the Sox did well getting Beckett.

I am not saying that the Yanks should have moved on Delgado, I don't see the fit, but just because he is not a fit for NYY, does not mean that the Mets, or other teams dealing are making foolish decisions....

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:11 PM
But that is not the case. The Mets pulled a great trade for Delgado, and the Sox did well getting Beckett.

I am not saying that the Yanks should have moved on Delgado, I don't see the fit, but just because he is not a fit for NYY, does not mean that the Mets, or other teams dealing are making foolish decisions....
Exactly.

BJG
11-23-05, 01:12 PM
Geeze Dooley...it's starting to sound silly.

It doesn't matter if you think Delgado is better than Giambi (and I think that's questionable). The question you have to ask is what the relative effect of adding Delgado is, how that ranks compared to other Yankee issues, etc.

You then have to ask who the Yankees have that the Marlins would rather have than Petit...in other words, you have to outbid the Mets. I'm sorry, but Petit has substantitally more upside than Wang, for example.

You then have to ask if the Yankees would be better off trading that package to fill a position besides 1B/DH.

You say that Minaya was a great salesman in his attempt to get Delgado...he wasn't, otherwise, Delgado would have signed there a year ago.

You say that if George were involved, Ryan would already be a Yankee, to which I respond, bull. It takes two to tango. You can't make a guy meet with you. You can't make a guy take your money. The reason that the Mets can set up a meeting with Wagner is because...they need a closer. These are ego driven people, and personal statistics do mean something, just like money does. Besides, is it really your belief that the Yankees would be better off taking whatever the best offer is on the table for Ryan and adding 25%?

You say that there are no players left on the market to improve a team with glaring flaws, which I just have to laugh at. What's the single biggest glaring flaw on this team? Do either Beckett or Delgado play that position? Are either even the best player on the market? Have any free agents even signed yet? Who's going to be offered arbitration? Who's going to get non-tendered?

You have a preconceived impression of Cashman, and it seems to me that you are stretching the facts to find anything to back that impression up. It's a bad way to make an argument. I have no idea what the model is for the new front office. But nobody has signed anywhere yet, so I don't know you can judge anyone's offseason to date. Heck, you don't even know where the Sox will end up once they trade Manny, Wells, etc.

goin for 27
11-23-05, 01:13 PM
The mets have a limit on how much money they can spend(so do the Yankees). And within two or three years when Pedro's arm is long gone, when Glavine is finished(he might be already), when Reyes still can't get on base, when neither can Beltran, when Floyed becomes as old as Willy, aaaaaaallll those contracts are gonna hurt. I'm telling you Dooley, the mets are not headed down the right path. There's no fu*king way the mets are gonna be better than the Yankees anytime soon. We're not cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll, we're doing it so we can use the money saved wisely and not on veterans who's best days are behind them.

Problem with this logic is three years is an eternity in baseball.

2005 Yanks had ARod, Cano, Matsui, Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, and Kevin Brown on the squad. NONE of these players were there in 2002.

2002 had Clemens, Pettite, Soriano, Nick Johnson, Stanton, Karsay, etc.

In 3 years neither the Mets nor the Yanks will closely resemble the teams that they are assembling today.

BJG
11-23-05, 01:14 PM
But that is not the case. The Mets pulled a great trade for Delgado, and the Sox did well getting Beckett.

I am not saying that the Yanks should have moved on Delgado, I don't see the fit, but just because he is not a fit for NYY, does not mean that the Mets, or other teams dealing are making foolish decisions....

But Dooley's argument is that the Yankees ARE making foolish decisions.

Sam18
11-23-05, 01:32 PM
Problem with this logic is three years is an eternity in baseball.

2005 Yanks had ARod, Cano, Matsui, Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, and Kevin Brown on the squad. NONE of these players were there in 2002.

2002 had Clemens, Pettite, Soriano, Nick Johnson, Stanton, Karsay, etc.

In 3 years neither the Mets nor the Yanks will closely resemble the teams that they are assembling today.

Dooley said in a few years the mets will be better than the Yankees, if the mets are giving away their prospects and filling their team with veterens then how will they be better?

Sam18
11-23-05, 01:32 PM
But that is not the case. The Mets pulled a great trade for Delgado, and the Sox did well getting Beckett.

I am not saying that the Yanks should have moved on Delgado, I don't see the fit, but just because he is not a fit for NYY, does not mean that the Mets, or other teams dealing are making foolish decisions....

The Beckett trade was not a good trade.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:34 PM
But Dooley's argument is that the Yankees ARE making foolish decisions.

Foolish in their inactivity, arrogance and lack of salesmanship. If the Mets needed a Ryan, as the Yanks BADLY need a Ryan for set-up, Omar would still be on his knees and on his third pair of knee pads.

Wagner wanted no part of NY (according to those "friends') and Minaya is plugging away. At least there is communication.

Sam18
11-23-05, 01:36 PM
Foolish in their inactivity, arrogance and lack of salesmanship. If the Mets needed a Ryan, as the Yanks BADLY need a Ryan for set-up, Omar would still be on his knees and on his third pair of knee pads.

Wagner wanted no part of NY (according to those "friends') and Minaya is plugging away. At least there is communication.

Is that what your beef is? Lack of communication?

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:40 PM
The Beckett trade was not a good trade.

Sam, not to be harsh, but you haven't given any substantial evidence to back your claims as to why it was a bad trade aside from "I think he'll suck in Fenway." I wouldn't put much weight on his risk for injury. I'll take him if it means he's out 3-4 games due to blisters.

Ramirez's stock dropped and the Sox have no place for him on the roster. Sanchez is as sure a thing as JB Cox (nobody knows), which isn't to say he or Cox won't succeed, but Beckett has already shown he is a force. An excellent trade from the Sox viewpoint. Plus they have a successor to Mueller and Lowell is serviceable with the potential to regain his stroke at Fenway. Even if he continues to decline, and the Sox don't get their full worth out of him, they've still gained a YOUNG ace-type pitcher. If Lowell does well, it's all gravy.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:46 PM
Is that what your beef is? Lack of communication?

That's one part of many. Lack of direction, salesmanship and poor player evaluating skills are bigger problems. He's already shown in the past what kind of staff makes him content.

Regarding communication, if Omar wanted BJ, he'd fight tooth and nail till it was hopeless. There's a huge difference in approaches. One is arrogant with no clue, the other is aggresive and gets what he wants, whether you think it's a bad move or not.

Kulish29
11-23-05, 01:49 PM
That's one part of many. Lack of direction, salesmanship and poor player evaluating skills are bigger problems.

Regarding communication, if Omar wanted BJ, he'd fight tooth and nail till it was hopeless. There's a huge difference in approaches. One is arrogant with no clue, the other is aggresive and gets what he wants, whether you think it's a bad move or not.

Lack of communicated to. ;)

BJG
11-23-05, 01:49 PM
Foolish in their inactivity, arrogance and lack of salesmanship. If the Mets needed a Ryan, as the Yanks BADLY need a Ryan for set-up, Omar would still be on his knees and on his third pair of knee pads.

Wagner wanted no part of NY (according to those "friends') and Minaya is plugging away. At least there is communication.

We aren't talking about 'friends'. We are talking about Ryan directly telling the Yankees that he is going to look for a closer's job.

Look, the history of the Yankees, like the history of any team, is full of players who didn't want to come here because there wasn't a baseball fit or even a personal fit. I can sell someone on NY. It's much harder to sell them on giving up everything they've been working on for their career, to convince a relatively young guy who still has contracts in him after this one that he won't be able to compile the kind of stats that will get him payed the most for that contract.

It's not arrogant to not pester the guy, it's simply polite, especially when, no matter how good you may think Ryan is, the difference between short relievers in terms of overall impact is relatively small over the long haul simply because short relievers don't have enough opportunities to develop huge gaps between the very good and the just plain good.

Sam18
11-23-05, 01:52 PM
Sam, not to be harsh, but you haven't given any substantial evidence to back your claims as to why it was a bad trade aside from "I think he'll suck in Fenway." I wouldn't put much weight on his risk for injury. I'll take him if it means he's out 3-4 games due to blisters.

Ramirez's stock dropped and the Sox have no place for him on the roster. Sanchez is as sure a thing as JB Cox (nobody knows), which isn't to say he or Cox won't succeed, but Beckett has already shown he is a force. An excellent trade from the Sox viewpoint. Plus they have a successor to Mueller and Lowell is serviceable with the potential to regain his stroke at Fenway. Even if he continues to decline, and the Sox don't get their full worth out of him, they've still gained a YOUNG ace-type pitcher. If Lowell does well, it's all gravy.

The sox have a limit to how much they can spend, getting Lowell(a useless player) limits their flexability. As for Beckett, he's been to the DL nine times in 4 years, he's currently ahed of the Kevin Brown pace. His road ERA last year was 4.30(in the NL mind you). I don't expect him to make the whole year without atleast one stint on the DL and I also expect him to have a tough time keeping his ERA under 4.50 in the AL.

BJG
11-23-05, 01:57 PM
Sam, not to be harsh, but you haven't given any substantial evidence to back your claims as to why it was a bad trade aside from "I think he'll suck in Fenway." I wouldn't put much weight on his risk for injury. I'll take him if it means he's out 3-4 games due to blisters.

Ramirez's stock dropped and the Sox have no place for him on the roster. Sanchez is as sure a thing as JB Cox (nobody knows), which isn't to say he or Cox won't succeed, but Beckett has already shown he is a force. An excellent trade from the Sox viewpoint. Plus they have a successor to Mueller and Lowell is serviceable with the potential to regain his stroke at Fenway. Even if he continues to decline, and the Sox don't get their full worth out of him, they've still gained a YOUNG ace-type pitcher. If Lowell does well, it's all gravy.

The Beckett trade was a good trade for the Red Sox. Attempting to match or outbid the Red Sox was a bad trade for the Yankees. The Red Sox can absorb losing Sanchez and Ramirez more readily than the Yankees could absorb losing Cano and Wang. The Yankees have a bigger need in CF than they do in the rotation, even if the rotation has ?s, meaning that if you make the decision to trade Cano and Wang, it should be to address your biggest need.

The risk with Beckett is less the blisters and more the shoulder, which started to bother him last year as soon as the blisters allowed him to actually throw more than 150 innings.

BTW, Sanchez is a starter and Cox a reliever. Sanchez has pitched in AA, Cox in A. Sure, pitching prospects are always a question mark, but they aren't the same in terms of long term potential impact. Sancez's is greater.

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 02:04 PM
BTW, Sanchez is a starter and Cox a reliever. Sanchez has pitched in AA, Cox in A. Sure, pitching prospects are always a question mark, but they aren't the same in terms of long term potential impact. Sancez's is greater.

I knew that but was trying to draw a comparison between the two team's pitching prospects and to stress that neither are sure things, regardless of their promise. Actually, speaking of Cox, I'm putting a lot of faith in him. I've heard some great things about him from people who followed his career closely.

Re Beckett, I am more sure that it was a good to great move by the Sox than if it would have been a good move for the Yanks to get him.

BeantownYankee
11-23-05, 02:16 PM
Who said the Yanks should have acquired who the Mets have? The Yanks definitely should have considered Beckett, and as I said, Delgado and Wagner not wanting to play in NY didn't stop Omar from setting up meetings and wheeling and dealing. He's showing true salesmanship by doing whatever it takes including letting players know they are wanted and belong, which is better than making a judgment by listening to a friend of a friend and then sitting still. Paul O'Neill didn't favor NY. Things sure can change once given the opportunity. Did Cashman ever call Ryan's agent or request a meeting? That's what I'd love to know.

Are you happy if the Yanks payroll goes down along with the quality of the product on the field so you can say, "Haha! The Mets and Sox are spending more?!"

Who said the quality is going down it's only the 23rd of November and plenty of things could happen. The Yanks have to pay the price of several years of poor decisions at some point, the team we have now can obsorbed some of that pain. Hey the Sox on paper have a nice young pitching staff which in a few years will cost them about 12-15 mil per pitcher, do you really thing that staff will stay together? We have Zero bargining chips and have to rely on free angent signings. Not every closer wants to be a setup man, especially when the closers are already 29-30 years old. There isn't alot in terms of available free agents that are A) worth the price B) fit our needs. Let's give Cash some time and see what he produces then we can complain. And yes I do enjoy watching the Mets & Red Sox spend more money as that's the only thing they could throw at us over the years. The question is are they spending their money wisely?

BJG
11-23-05, 02:24 PM
I knew that but was trying to draw a comparison between the two team's pitching prospects and to stress that neither are sure things, regardless of their promise. Actually, speaking of Cox, I'm putting a lot of faith in him. I've heard some great things about him from people who followed his career closely.

Sure, but you don't make moves like that. You make moves by calculating not only the downside, but also the upside, the most likely, etc. I'm pretty sure the Marlins think they got two very, very good players.

As for Cox, not nearly the pitcher Street was at Texas, but sure, he could be a good reliever.


Re Beckett, I am more sure that it was a good to great move by the Sox than if it would have been a good move for the Yanks to get him.

Then what are you so upset about? That the Sox got better? They try to do so every year.

27IsNext
11-23-05, 02:54 PM
Looks like the Mets one-up'ed George yet again by acquiring Delgado before the Yankees could get him.

Oh wait... :lol:

Stupid Flanders
11-23-05, 02:57 PM
For one, Delgado is better than Giambi.
By what metric?

Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 03:37 PM
By what metric?

In just about every offensive category imaginable, except walks, which was highly influential in increasing Giambi's OBP. Plus, Delgado is more consistent throughout the year and not as streaky as Giambi was, hitting most of his homers within a couple of months. Delgado is the surer bet as well. Which Giambi shows up in 2006 and for how long? Anyway, need numbers?

2005:

Avg: Delgado .301 Giambi .271
RBI: Delgado 115 Giambi 87
HR: Delgado 33 Giambi 32
Doubles: Delgado 41 Giambi 14
Triples: Delgado 3 Giambi 0
Walks: Delgado 72 Giambi 108
OBP: Delgado .399 Giambi .440
OPS: Delgado .981 Giambi .975
SLG %: Delgado .582 Giambi .535

Those metrics.

gdn
11-23-05, 03:40 PM
In just about every offensive category imaginable, except walks, which was highly influential in increasing Giambi's OBP. Plus, Delgado is more consistent throughout the year and not as streaky as Giambi was, hitting most of his homers within a couple of months. Delgado is the surer bet as well. Which Giambi shows up in 2006 and for how long? Anyway, need numbers?

2005:

Avg: Delgado .301 Giambi .271
RBI: Delgado 115 Giambi 87
HR: Delgado 33 Giambi 32
Doubles: Delgado 41 Giambi 14
Triples: Delgado 3 Giambi 0
Walks: Delgado 72 Giambi 108
OBP: Delgado .399 Giambi .440
OPS: Delgado .981 Giambi .975
SLG %: Delgado .582 Giambi .535

Those metrics.41 doubles? :eek: Damn. I'd hate to see him play in a smaller park.

whalers
11-23-05, 03:45 PM
In just about every offensive category imaginable, except walks, which was highly influential in increasing Giambi's OBP. Plus, Delgado is more consistent throughout the year and not as streaky as Giambi was, hitting most of his homers within a couple of months. Delgado is the surer bet as well. Which Giambi shows up in 2006 and for how long? Anyway, need numbers?

2005:

Avg: Delgado .301 Giambi .271
RBI: Delgado 115 Giambi 87
HR: Delgado 33 Giambi 32
Doubles: Delgado 41 Giambi 14
Triples: Delgado 3 Giambi 0
Walks: Delgado 72 Giambi 108
OBP: Delgado .399 Giambi .440
OPS: Delgado .981 Giambi .975
SLG %: Delgado .582 Giambi .535

Those metrics.

This all depends on what Giambi shows up in 2006. I'd like to see the comparison of those stats after the All Star break. I think it says a lot about Giambi that he can even match up with Delgado after the horrid start.

BJG
11-23-05, 03:49 PM
In just about every offensive category imaginable, except walks, which was highly influential in increasing Giambi's OBP. Plus, Delgado is more consistent throughout the year and not as streaky as Giambi was, hitting most of his homers within a couple of months. Delgado is the surer bet as well. Which Giambi shows up in 2006 and for how long? Anyway, need numbers?

2005:

Avg: Delgado .301 Giambi .271
RBI: Delgado 115 Giambi 87
HR: Delgado 33 Giambi 32
Doubles: Delgado 41 Giambi 14
Triples: Delgado 3 Giambi 0
Walks: Delgado 72 Giambi 108
OBP: Delgado .399 Giambi .440
OPS: Delgado .981 Giambi .975
SLG %: Delgado .582 Giambi .535

Those metrics.

EQA actually liked Giambi better, .344 to .333. The counting stats are hard to compare because of playing time.

gdn
11-23-05, 03:55 PM
Post All-Star:

Delgado: .322, 15HR, 49RBIs, 31BBs, 46SO, .421OBP, .649SLG
Giambi: .264, 22HR, 55RBIs, 64BBs, 49SO, .453OBP, .604SLG

whalers
11-23-05, 03:57 PM
Post All-Star:

Delgado: .322, 15HR, 49RBIs, 31BBs, 46SO, .421OBP, .649SLG
Giambi: .264, 22HR, 55RBIs, 64BBs, 49SO, .453OBP, .604SLG

Thanks. As a sidenote I just heard Olney on the radio talking about how scouts view Delgado as a worse fielder than Giambi. I coudlnt believe it.

gdn
11-23-05, 03:59 PM
Thanks. As a sidenote I just heard Olney on the radio talking about how scouts view Delgado as a worse fielder than Giambi. I coudlnt believe it.I'd be surprised were that true. Also, the above stats are with about an eight AB difference between the two.

I Love Wang
11-23-05, 04:00 PM
The difference between Giambi and Delgado at this point is negligable.

Kulish29
11-23-05, 04:33 PM
Thanks. As a sidenote I just heard Olney on the radio talking about how scouts view Delgado as a worse fielder than Giambi. I coudlnt believe it.

Delgado is a pretty bad fielder.

slim26
11-24-05, 03:35 AM
The mets have a limit on how much money they can spend(so do the Yankees). And within two or three years when Pedro's arm is long gone, when Glavine is finished(he might be already), when Reyes still can't get on base, when neither can Beltran, when Floyed becomes as old as Willy, aaaaaaallll those contracts are gonna hurt. I'm telling you Dooley, the mets are not headed down the right path. There's no fu*king way the mets are gonna be better than the Yankees anytime soon. We're not cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll, we're doing it so we can use the money saved wisely and not on veterans who's best days are behind them.


LOL ... Lets see whats wrong with this comment.

"within two or three years when Pedro's arm is long gone"
not much of a problem being Pedro's contract will be over in 3 years.


"when Glavine is finished"
going into the last year of his contract...don't see how it'll be a problem in 2-3 years.

"when Floyed becomes as old as Willy"
you must really not be aware of their contract statuses ... Floyd's contract will be over next year.


Their payroll is less than last year's currently even after picking up Delgado. Piazza's 15 million is off the books, Cameron's 7 million is off the books, and Florida's picked up 7 million of Delgado's remainging contract. I wouldn't be worrying about the Mets payroll flexability.

As far as the prospects the Mets gave up for Delgado....marginal at best. Jacobs had a good September and showed a lot of promise so who knows. Petit had marginal stuff that does not translate well in the big leagues, being a finesse pitcher topping out at 88 mph.

ChewieTobbacca
11-24-05, 03:43 AM
EQA is more based on rate stats than accumulated stats...

And in the end one has to remember how to balance it out - baseball isn't determined by a month stretch of greatness, it's a long marathon and playing good over 6 months can be just as important, if not more important, than a month of incredible ball playing

I guess the key thing to remember is Delgado played in that ballpark in Florida - his 161 OPS+ is a testament that he still had a great year even at the age of 34. Giambi in his Oakland days was clearly a greater hitter than Delgado, but now who knows on Giambi - he had that stretch of torrid hitting then also quieted down. Delgado is a better overall hitter now than Giambi, and though Delgado is likely to go to the Mets now anyways, I'd be afraid of the monstrous power numbers he could put up at YS with its short right porch - half those doubles may end up homers.