PDA

View Full Version : Pavano wants out (per NJ Star Ledger)



Pages : 1 [2]

Rich
11-19-05, 12:04 AM
Have you ever considered going to a Yankee Fantasy Camp?

That would be pretty cool, IMO.

No, but it probably would be.

yankees76
11-19-05, 12:06 AM
Pavano will win 30 games for the Yankees next season.

BillBuckner
11-19-05, 12:10 AM
The content of this thread bewilders me.

Kulish29
11-19-05, 12:13 AM
Pavano will win 30 games for the Yankees next season.

The SOOOOOOOOOOOO Drunk (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=55921&page=19&pp=45) thread is in the Sports Bar. ;)

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 12:15 AM
No balls.

I suspect that condition would afflict most of the folks in this thread if the opportunity arose to tell Pavano that to his face.

yankees76
11-19-05, 12:15 AM
Pavano will win 30 games for the Yankees next season.


Apologies. I know I have been here two years, but sometimes this Board just brings out the troll in me. We have absolutely NO information. Rumors, innuendo, unnamed "friends" of Pavano (do you know how many people want to be/claim to be friends of MLs??).

Can we just wait until he formally requests a trade before we pillory him??

Thanks.

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 12:17 AM
Apologies. I know I have been here two years, but sometimes this Board just brings out the troll in me. We have absolutely NO information. Rumors, innuendo, unnamed "friends" of Pavano (do you know how many people want to be/claim to be friends of MLs??).

Can we just wait until he formally requests a trade before we pillory him??

Thanks.

Because as fans we tend to project our own disappointment for a player's performance onto the guy himself. If Pavano were pitching lights out prior to getting injured, I doubt the acceptance of the article in question would be so complete.

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 12:22 AM
Apologies. I know I have been here two years, but sometimes this Board just brings out the troll in me. We have absolutely NO information. Rumors, innuendo, unnamed "friends" of Pavano (do you know how many people want to be/claim to be friends of MLs??).

Can we just wait until he formally requests a trade before we pillory him??

Thanks. Because this is a baseball message board. If all discussion was limited to confimed facts, the "Yep, that Randy Johnson sure is tall" thread would be one of the only topics.

yankees76
11-19-05, 12:24 AM
Because this is a baseball message board. If all discussion was limited to confimed facts, the "Yep, that Randy Johnson sure is tall" thread would be one of the only topics.

I agree, Matt, but if we took everything Graziano and Gammons wrote as gospel (or even, reliable), we would be stunned at how often the baseball world did not turn out as we had projected it.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 12:25 AM
[B]GOOD RIDDANCE. He's a bum. No heart. He let his team down. He sucks anyways.

Rich
11-19-05, 12:27 AM
I suspect that condition would afflict most of the folks in this thread if the opportunity arose to tell Pavano that to his face.

Unless, of course, we merely merely asked to compare our testicles.

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 12:29 AM
I agree, Matt, but if we took everything Graziano and Gammons wrote as gospel (or even, reliable), we would be stunned at how often the baseball world did not turn out as we had projected it. But what do we pick and choose as real? Lets face it this isn't the first time we've heard rumors to this effect. Combine that with being on the DL all year with a poorly defined injury and you could come to the conclusion that he's not very happy with the team.

yankees76
11-19-05, 12:32 AM
Look, there's clearly an issue here. I read and contributed to the first few pages of this thread but then had to do some work and only read selected posts on pages 4 and 5, so I don't know if someone has brought this up already, but I remember late last summer when Joe said that he and Mel were mystified by what was wrong with Pavano, since the medical tests were apparently coming back negative. In ten years of watching Joe, that's about as close as I have ever seen him come to calling a player out publicly, so you have to wonder what he was saying behind closed doors. "Hey, uh Carl, you know Jeter is playing with a partially torn tendon in his wrist. People get banged up during the year, pitchers included. I don't want you to hurt yourself in the first year of four-year contract, but what gives? Yes, this pitching thing might hurt a little. It's not a natural thing for the human body to do."

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 12:34 AM
Unless, of course, we merely merely asked to compare our testicles.

I'm sure quite a few would come up lacking in that department as well.

MiamiKat
11-19-05, 12:37 AM
I'm sure quite a few would come up lacking in that department as well.Yup. Especially those of us without them.


:P

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 12:38 AM
Yup. Especially those of us without them.


:P

You have one of the biggest sacks on the forum, Kat. Metaphorically speaking.

I hope, anyway. :eek:

Rich
11-19-05, 12:39 AM
I'm sure quite a few would come up lacking in that department as well.

I have a much better chance of coming up ahead in that area than I do with beating him with my fists.

But hey, I've had my ass kicked before, and none of those people had the ability to send me a big check every month for the privilege.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 12:40 AM
Look, there's clearly an issue here. I read and contributed to the first few pages of this thread but then had to do some work and only read selected posts on pages 4 and 5, so I don't know if someone has brought this up already, but I remember late last summer when Joe said that he and Mel were mystified by what was wrong with Pavano, since the medical tests were apparently coming back negative. In ten years of watching Joe, that's about as close as I have ever seen him come to calling a player out publicly, so you have to wonder what he was saying behind closed doors. "Hey, uh Carl, you know Jeter is playing with a partially torn tendon in his wrist. People get banged up during the year, pitchers included. I don't want you to hurt yourself in the first year of four-year contract, but what gives? Yes, this pitching thing might hurt a little. It's not a natural thing for the human body to do."

I agree. I think it has to do with him NOT wanting to play. It's heart, man. That's it. I hope I never see him in pinstripes again. He's unhappy there. Even if this trade report is a rumor, I seriously doubt he was as injured as he portrayed himself to be. IMO, that's how I feel. There's just something about him.

JeffWeaverFan
11-19-05, 12:44 AM
I agree, Matt, but if we took everything Graziano and Gammons wrote as gospel (or even, reliable), we would be stunned at how often the baseball world did not turn out as we had projected it.
It's not gospel. But this isn't the first time we've heard that. He had a fishy injury. His pitching coach said that "it's a guessing game" when it comes to Pavano. He has done nothing to deny these reports. Put a couple things together and it seems to me that these rumors are most likely true.

MiamiKat
11-19-05, 12:52 AM
You have one of the biggest sacks on the forum, Kat. Metaphorically speaking.

I hope, anyway. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif
Why, thank you.

And the use of a metaphor is indeed appropriate.

yankees76
11-19-05, 12:55 AM
It's not gospel. But this isn't the first time we've heard that. He had a fishy injury. His pitching coach said that "it's a guessing game" when it comes to Pavano. He has done nothing to deny these reports. Put a couple things together and it seems to me that these rumors are most likely true.

I believe there is an as-yet-to-be-determined issue with Pavano's injury. That said, I find it hard to believe that any guy who makes the MLs, a professional pitcher who has continued pitching at higher levels as his buddies in high school and college have gotten "real" jobs, lacks the heart to continue pitching at the ML level. Maybe he is putting too much pressure on himself and doesn't think he can live up to his own expectations. I don't know. Maybe it hurts that he is now pitching for the Yankees, a team he has always supported as a fan. Maybe there's some self-doubt, but you just don't get to this level if you don't believe in yourself.

There's more to this story. Maybe, as a poster suggested earlier, he is "miserable" ... miserable because he spent the whole season re-habbing in Tampa while his team was gunning for the Playoffs. That has to be pretty miserable, hanging out with Billy Connors and Gordon Emslie all year, even if you are making $10.0 million.

JeffWeaverFan
11-19-05, 02:04 AM
I believe there is an as-yet-to-be-determined issue with Pavano's injury. That said, I find it hard to believe that any guy who makes the MLs, a professional pitcher who has continued pitching at higher levels as his buddies in high school and college have gotten "real" jobs, lacks the heart to continue pitching at the ML level. Maybe he is putting too much pressure on himself and doesn't think he can live up to his own expectations. I don't know. Maybe it hurts that he is now pitching for the Yankees, a team he has always supported as a fan. Maybe there's some self-doubt, but you just don't get to this level if you don't believe in yourself.

There's more to this story. Maybe, as a poster suggested earlier, he is "miserable" ... miserable because he spent the whole season re-habbing in Tampa while his team was gunning for the Playoffs. That has to be pretty miserable, hanging out with Billy Connors and Gordon Emslie all year, even if you are making $10.0 million.
Maybe he was still depressed that he was dumped by his girlfriend and didn't feel like pitching in the pain his shoulder was supposedly in. There were reports he was quite upset with that breakup. And, if you are correct that he stopped believing in himself, he isn't right for this team anyways.

If he's miserable because he made $10 million dollars while resting a sore shoulder (that did not need surgery thus not needing much rehab) then I don't know what to say. Chien-Ming Wang made a few hundred thousand dollars and went through a possible career ending shoulder injury but still managed to rehab hard and come back and help this team. Jaret Wright did the same with a possible season ending shoulder surgery. I haven't heard a peep that either of them were miserable - and both of them had much more of a right to be.

Stupid Flanders
11-19-05, 02:44 AM
[B]GOOD RIDDANCE. He's a bum. No heart. He let his team down. He sucks anyways.I'm pretty sure he has a house

Stupid Flanders
11-19-05, 02:46 AM
But what do we pick and choose as real? Lets face it this isn't the first time we've heard rumors to this effect. .Yeah.

This is the SAME RUMOR based on the SAME SOURCE from the SAME DATE

Just because some writer reprints it doesnt make it real

ryanthe13th
11-19-05, 02:57 AM
I really hope Pavano rebounds from a poor 2005. When he decided to come to the Yankees, I was excited that we'd have some youth in our rotation. This report is old, like Barbra Walters.

Boricua21
11-19-05, 03:02 AM
I'm pretty sure he has a house

I know. I might be over reacting a bit, but I seriously doubt his integrity to play. And yes, I'm sure he has a very nice house. :lol:

Kickyt
11-19-05, 05:28 AM
This thread is a mystery to me. First of all, Pavano's relationship with Alyssa Milano was brief. He is a very shy person and hated the attention. He has/had a long term girlfriend that he was on a short break from.

Second of all, Pavano was miserable and dissapointed that he could not play last year. I'm sick of Yankee fan attitudes and lack of understanding regarding issues such as this. Why don't we start giving players more support...maybe more would want to come to NY for reasons other than money. I love going to minor league games here in CT. just for the sheer joy of watching baseball. This rumor and conjecture based on no factual information is sickening.

rajah
11-19-05, 08:04 AM
This thread is a mystery to me. First of all, Pavano's relationship with Alyssa Milano was brief. He is a very shy person and hated the attention. He has/had a long term girlfriend that he was on a short break from.

Second of all, Pavano was miserable and dissapointed that he could not play last year. I'm sick of Yankee fan attitudes and lack of understanding regarding issues such as this. Why don't we start giving players more support...maybe more would want to come to NY for reasons other than money. I love going to minor league games here in CT. just for the sheer joy of watching baseball. This rumor and conjecture based on no factual information is sickening.

Good post. Yankee fans who boo rather than support players going through rough periods make it more difficult for the team to recruit free agents. Many of these fans are the same ones who whine about the Yankees having to pay more for free agents. Such fans probably get what they deserve: more losing.

ieddyi
11-19-05, 08:17 AM
This thread is a mystery to me. First of all, Pavano's relationship with Alyssa Milano was brief. He is a very shy person and hated the attention. He has/had a long term girlfriend that he was on a short break from.

Second of all, Pavano was miserable and dissapointed that he could not play last year. I'm sick of Yankee fan attitudes and lack of understanding regarding issues such as this. Why don't we start giving players more support...maybe more would want to come to NY for reasons other than money. I love going to minor league games here in CT. just for the sheer joy of watching baseball. This rumor and conjecture based on no factual information is sickening.

I think the yanks fans give tremendous support when they like a player- ask Jeter, Paulie, Bernie, etc. They are savvy enough to get a read on who is puttin out real effort or not. Players understand that NY is a bigger stage- the highs are higher and the lows are lower
RJ got booed last year after a horrible performance and he understood and said that he probably would have booed himself if he was a fan.
The rumor and conjecture is coming from the press- not Yankee fans. There are weasels in the ress all over- look at the tool in LA that was on the managers case and probaly was a factor in him getting fired. Look at the media scrutiny in Boston- much worse than here.
If you can't put the noise aside and appreciate baseball played at the highest level, maybe you would be better off staying in the minor league parks
For many players, it's the long tradition of excellence and the loyalty/intelligence of the fans that draws them to NY. I think the elite athlete wants to play in front of a crowd that knows what their watching, rather than a mind dead crowd that just robotically cheers.
It's like the crowd at a golf tournament that cheers wildly for a Tiger Woods tee shot that ends up 30 yards off the fiarway behind a tree, just because it loked good comning off the club

BillBuckner
11-19-05, 10:35 AM
This thread is a mystery to me. First of all, Pavano's relationship with Alyssa Milano was brief. He is a very shy person and hated the attention. He has/had a long term girlfriend that he was on a short break from.

Second of all, Pavano was miserable and dissapointed that he could not play last year. I'm sick of Yankee fan attitudes and lack of understanding regarding issues such as this. Why don't we start giving players more support...maybe more would want to come to NY for reasons other than money. I love going to minor league games here in CT. just for the sheer joy of watching baseball. This rumor and conjecture based on no factual information is sickening.
I agree 100%. The man was hurt for Christ sake.

wileedog
11-19-05, 10:52 AM
I agree 100%. The man was hurt for Christ sake.

Alledgedly.....





;)

The Q Bomb
11-19-05, 10:59 AM
I think the yanks fans give tremendous support when they like a player- ask Jeter, Paulie, Bernie, etc.Well, fans are not going to like all 25 players on the roster the same amount and all 25 players are not going to have the ability of a Jeter, Paulie, or Bernie. Fans don't need to mindlessly cheer for a player no matter the effort but they need not get on a player who is putting forth his best effort with perhaps less than desired result. They are savvy enough to get a read on who is puttin out real effort or not. That is not always true. Many times fans have questioned a player's effort only to find out he was injured. Players understand that NY is a bigger stage- the highs are higher and the lows are lower
RJ got booed last year after a horrible performance and he understood and said that he probably would have booed himself if he was a fan.
The rumor and conjecture is coming from the press- not Yankee fans. There are weasels in the ress all over- look at the tool in LA that was on the managers case and probaly was a factor in him getting fired. Look at the media scrutiny in Boston- much worse than here.
If you can't put the noise aside and appreciate baseball played at the highest level, maybe you would be better off staying in the minor league parks
For many players, it's the long tradition of excellence and the loyalty/intelligence of the fans that draws them to NY. I think the elite athlete wants to play in front of a crowd that knows what their watching, rather than a mind dead crowd that just robotically cheers. Oh yeah? I think an athelete would rather play for a competitive team with fans and media who appreciate good baseball and the effort they put out. Yankee fans are not the only ones who are intelligent baseball fans.
It's like the crowd at a golf tournament that cheers wildly for a Tiger Woods tee shot that ends up 30 yards off the fiarway behind a tree, just because it loked good comning off the club

Playing in New York can be wonderful but it can also be a miserable experience. The last couple of years it seems only supermen can be happy playing in New York. Unfortunately, even the best of teams are not made up of supermen (i.e, superstars) but good, solid, ordinary players who can play together and produce as a team. Yankee fans are always crying for "homegrown talent". How can we ever get a homegrown player when there is no patience for a player to develop. It is very rare, extremely rare, when a young player hits the ground running like an Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, or Robinson Cano. Usually, they are more like Bernie - they show promise and then take a year or two or three to grow into their own.

NelsonMuntz
11-19-05, 11:00 AM
This entire story/issue is based on nothing but conjecture and speculation. Frankly it pi$$es me off.

wileedog
11-19-05, 12:14 PM
This entire story/issue is based on nothing but conjecture and speculation. Frankly it pi$$es me off.

The question is, why doesn't it piss off Pavano?

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 12:17 PM
Playing in New York can be wonderful but it can also be a miserable experience. The last couple of years it seems only supermen can be happy playing in New York. Unfortunately, even the best of teams are not made up of supermen (i.e, superstars) but good, solid, ordinary players who can play together and produce as a team. Yankee fans are always crying for "homegrown talent". How can we ever get a homegrown player when there is no patience for a player to develop. It is very rare, extremely rare, when a young player hits the ground running like an Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, or Robinson Cano. Usually, they are more like Bernie - they show promise and then take a year or two or three to grow into their own. I don't remember the last time we had no patience for a player to develop. Cano certainly didnt hit the ground running. He was given time. And I'd like to think that this wasn't his ceiling. Henn and Cabrera obviously just weren't ready at that particular point in time, and there's nothing wrong with that. I

I hope we're not referring to the likes of Crosby and Phillips.

Sierra Mist
11-19-05, 12:34 PM
Pavano and I finally agree on something

mr G
11-19-05, 12:37 PM
i think it's the case ,of a reporter trying to make news during a slo eriod !!!

MiamiKat
11-19-05, 12:51 PM
I hope we're not referring to the likes of Crosby and Phillips.
And even those guys have gotten their fair share of fan support and cheers. As have injured players who've disclosed their injuries and worked their way back from them -- Wang, for example.

In contrast, Pavano's situation remains shrouded in mystery. It was never disclosed what was really wrong with his shoulder. He was supposed to come off the DL a number of times last season, then mysteriously didn't. He's a highly-paid, marquee free agent who missed a significant portion of last season for reasons that have never fully been made clear. (And yes, there is a responsibility to inform the ticket-buying public if the injury is game-related.)

So is it any wonder when people hear he might not have the sack to play for the Yankees, some -- if not, many -- believe it?

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 12:58 PM
I don't remember the last time we had no patience for a player to develop. Cano certainly didnt hit the ground running. He was given time. And I'd like to think that this wasn't his ceiling. Henn and Cabrera obviously just weren't ready at that particular point in time, and there's nothing wrong with that. I

I hope we're not referring to the likes of Crosby and Phillips.

Are you kidding? The number of people who are ready to write off Henn and Cabrera is tremendous, not to mention the people that don't think Phillips is capable of being a backup in the majors.

gdn
11-19-05, 01:15 PM
Are you kidding? The number of people who are ready to write off Henn and Cabrera is tremendous, not to mention the people that don't think Phillips is capable of being a backup in the majors.

Absolutely correct. These opinions are also based on nothing more than a handful of ABs or a few IPs.

RhodeyYankee2638
11-19-05, 01:17 PM
Absolutely correct. These opinions are also based on nothing more than a handful of ABs or a few IPs.

I think Cabrera will be fine, but I think Henn is going to be a AAAA pitcher his entire life. He was signed because he used to hit 99 frequently. He cant top 92 and has no breaking ball, after 2 TJ surgeries

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 01:18 PM
Are you kidding? The number of people who are ready to write off Henn and Cabrera is tremendous, not to mention the people that don't think Phillips is capable of being a backup in the majors. Cabrera is 20. Anyone that writes him off at this point is a fool. Same thing with a 24 year old Henn who was basically rushed up from AA.

And I'm not sold on Phillips. He looked really bad in his brief stay here. I don't know why he would be different than any other late 20s career minor leaguer who never figured out the major league breaking pitch. He may be a serviceable backup, but on this team, that could mean more than 60 or 70 games at first for a guy that can't hit a curveball.

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 01:19 PM
And I'm not sold on Phillips. He looked really bad in his brief stay here. I don't know why he would be different than any other late 20s career minor leaguer who never figured out the major league breaking pitch. He may be a serviceable backup, but on this team, that could mean more than 60 or 70 games at first for a guy that can't hit a curveball.

This is complete nonsense. Hitters that can't hit breaking pitches don't hit in AAA. Phillips has torn up AAA for two years now. If he couldn't hit breaking pitches, then they wouldn't throw him fastballs in AAA, and he wouldn't be putting up great numbers.

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 01:21 PM
He cant top 92 and has no breaking ball, after 2 TJ surgeries

This simply just isn't true. Henn's fastball ranges from 93-96.

RhodeyYankee2638
11-19-05, 01:22 PM
This is complete nonsense. Hitters that can't hit breaking pitches don't hit in AAA. Phillips has torn up AAA for two years now. If he couldn't hit breaking pitches, then they wouldn't throw him fastballs in AAA, and he wouldn't be putting up great numbers.

Im sure you would agree the pitching at the major league level is slightly better than the pitching at the AAA level

NelsonMuntz
11-19-05, 01:23 PM
The question is, why doesn't it piss off Pavano?
Who's to say that it doesn't? Once again, it's just speculation that it doesn't bother him. He's not obligated to comment on what could very well be an entirely fictitious story.

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 01:26 PM
This is complete nonsense. Hitters that can't hit breaking pitches don't hit in AAA. Phillips has torn up AAA for two years now. If he couldn't hit breaking pitches, then they wouldn't throw him fastballs in AAA, and he wouldn't be putting up great numbers. I would like to think there's a difference in quality between a major league pitcher and the 33 year old guy still languishing in AAA. Everytime I hear AAA curveball I picture that thing that Proctor alledges is a curveball that doesn't curve in the traditional sense-ie not at all. These people are in AAA in their late 20s and early 30s for the same reason that the offensive players are. They're not good enough to be major league pitchers.

Do you think its just a coicidence that Phillips stopped hitting up here once they stopped throwing fastballs to him?

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 01:27 PM
Im sure you would agree the pitching at the major league level is slightly better than the pitching at the AAA level

Of course it is. But that doesn't mean that its so fundamentally different that a guy who is wildly successful in AAA might be completely unable to hit in the majors because of a flaw that AAA pitchers would be able to expose.

RhodeyYankee2638
11-19-05, 01:28 PM
This simply just isn't true. Henn's fastball ranges from 93-96.

I've watched him pitch for the past year or so in AA and havent seen him hit 96, his scouting report on baseballamerica says he hasnt broke 94 this year. He needs to learn an outpitch, major leaguers can hit a 94 mph fastball when they know thats all that's coming

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 01:28 PM
Who's to say that it doesn't? Once again, it's just speculation that it doesn't bother him. You would think he's like to clear his name. He already has fans livid over the whole injury fiasco, you would think he'd try and clear up the next incident.

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 01:29 PM
I would like to think there's a difference in quality between a major league pitcher and the 33 year old guy still languishing in AAA. Everytime I hear AAA curveball I picture that thing that Proctor alledges is a curveball that doesn't curve in the traditional sense-ie not at all. These people are in AAA in their late 20s and early 30s for the same reason that the offensive players are. They're not good enough to be major league pitchers.

Do you think its just a coicidence that Phillips stopped hitting up here once they stopped throwing fastballs to him?

Phillips suffered from some bad luck, and also from Torre's doghouse. He was getting at-bats once every week or two, and had trouble hitting because of it.

Mattpat11
11-19-05, 01:37 PM
Phillips suffered from some bad luck, . What does that even mean? He would have hit if the moon was properly alligned?


He was getting at-bats once every week or two, and had trouble hitting because of it.

He was getting regular work from 4/24 to 5/7. He went 4 for 30.

hobokenfish
11-19-05, 01:46 PM
This is complete nonsense. Hitters that can't hit breaking pitches don't hit in AAA. Phillips has torn up AAA for two years now. If he couldn't hit breaking pitches, then they wouldn't throw him fastballs in AAA, and he wouldn't be putting up great numbers.

Not nonsense at all. AAA pitchers usually have problems throwing their breaking pitches for strikes (which is why they aren't in the majors). And when you can't throw the breaking stuff for strikes, you have to go back to the fastball. And unless you throw smoke, you get hit.

Andy Phillips is not a big league ballplayer. Perhaps a role player, but nothing more. There's a reason why he was 27 and still playing in the minors.

wileedog
11-19-05, 02:36 PM
Are you kidding? The number of people who are ready to write off Henn and Cabrera is tremendous, not to mention the people that don't think Phillips is capable of being a backup in the majors.

I'll admit I'm not high on either Henn or Cabrera, although I would like to see more of Phillips.

However myself and others who hold that opinion have the right to express it without saying we don't have "patience" to develop new players. I liked Cano for instance from day 1 and was more than happy we kept putting him out there when he was slumping mid-summer.

My problems with Henn and Melky aren't 'patience' related, I just wasn't that impressed with what I saw of them. That's not to say neither will ever be a major leaguer, just that Melky needs more time and Henn needs a consistent breaking ball.

27IsNext
11-19-05, 02:40 PM
I'll admit I'm not high on either Henn or Cabrera, although I would like to see more of Phillips.

However myself and others who hold that opinion have the right to express it without saying we don't have "patience" to develop new players. I liked Cano for instance from day 1 and was more than happy we kept putting him out there when he was slumping mid-summer.

My problems with Henn and Melky aren't 'patience' related, I just wasn't that impressed with what I saw of them. That's not to say neither will ever be a major leaguer, just that Melky needs more time and Henn needs a consistent breaking ball.

If Henn could develop a slider, he's be great as a relief pitcher.

Melky doesn't have the speed to play CF, and doesn't have the power to play a corner OF position. IMO, he should be used in a trade.

BronxByTheBay
11-19-05, 02:42 PM
The question is, why doesn't it piss off Pavano?

Maybe because he's too busy living a wonderful life as a multimillionaire baseball player.

wileedog
11-19-05, 02:44 PM
Who's to say that it doesn't? Once again, it's just speculation that it doesn't bother him. He's not obligated to comment on what could very well be an entirely fictitious story.

Agreed its pure speculation. But what the hell else are you supposed to do on a baseball message board in November? :)

And I think if Carl really is still happy with the team it is really in his best interest to pick up a phone and nip it in the bud now. It will take him 5 minutes and avoid a lot of hassle in the future if this idea of him not wanting to be here really takes hold with the fans and press.

If he doesn't, then the speculation remains fair game.

For the record, I'm certainly not trashing the guy based on this. But I thought things were weird when Mel made those comments during the season about him, weirder when he didn't come back from an injury nobody could diagnose, and now the rumor is floating again. I'm more curious than anything.

I Love Wang
11-19-05, 04:53 PM
Andy Phillips is not a big league ballplayer. Perhaps a role player, but nothing more. There's a reason why he was 27 and still playing in the minors.

The reason is that he was an older player drafted out of college and he suffered from injuries that cost him about a year and a half of his development, most of which after he had first reached AAA. If that hadn't happened, he likely would have been called up during his age 26 season. At this point, I submit that he could be a solid role player.

drjeckyl
11-20-05, 06:18 AM
The Tigers have called the Yankees about possibly trading for Carl Pavano, according to a baseball official, but the Yanks apparently are not interested in Nook Logan or Craig Monroe, the two outfielders who might come back in a deal. link (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/367388p-312729c.html)

If this is true, the Yankees appear to be steadfast in keeping Pavano despite the lack of available outfielders. If not, I would have thought they would willing to discuss a Pavano for Monroe as the principles of a deal.

Yankees1962
11-20-05, 07:25 AM
link (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/367388p-312729c.html)

If this is true, the Yankees appear to be steadfast in keeping Pavano despite the lack of available outfielders. If not, I would have thought they would willing to discuss a Pavano for Monroe as the principles of a deal.
I've watched Monroe play several times and he's not that good of an outfielder. He's mediocre at best and his offensive output isn't enough to outweigh that reality. Pavano despite his disappointing first year with the Yankees is worth a lot more than Monroe.

drjeckyl
11-20-05, 08:34 AM
I've watched Monroe play several times and he's not that good of an outfielder. He's mediocre at best and his offensive output isn't enough to outweigh that reality. Pavano despite his disappointing first year with the Yankees is worth a lot more than Monroe.

I haven't seen enough of Monrow to make a judgement on his outfield play. His offensive numbers on paper appear adequate, however. I think Pavano could be worth alot on the trade market too. He's one of the few tradeable pieces we have. His disappointing year aside, I just wonder about how much of the "Pavano is miserable" is real and how much it will affect his trade value.

AJW
11-20-05, 08:43 AM
If there was an icon to put in this post with a bunch of bif FU's I would do it for good ol' Carl. FU Carl. Why in the hell did you come here in the first place then?????

yanksphan
11-20-05, 10:34 AM
link (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/367388p-312729c.html)

If this is true, the Yankees appear to be steadfast in keeping Pavano despite the lack of available outfielders. If not, I would have thought they would willing to discuss a Pavano for Monroe as the principles of a deal.

I wonder why the Yankees wouldn't request a package begining with Granderson in return?

Tony53
11-20-05, 12:03 PM
Are you kidding? The number of people who are ready to write off Henn and Cabrera is tremendous, not to mention the people that don't think Phillips is capable of being a backup in the majors.

And all you have to do is look at some old threads where Cano was skewered, roasted and spit out by a lot of people here when he was slumping in August, or after he made an error.

Tony53
11-20-05, 12:10 PM
I haven't seen enough of Monrow to make a judgement on his outfield play. His offensive numbers on paper appear adequate, however. I think Pavano could be worth alot on the trade market too. He's one of the few tradeable pieces we have. His disappointing year aside, I just wonder about how much of the "Pavano is miserable" is real and how much it will affect his trade value.

I agree that Pavano could be worth a lot, especially when you consider that Burnett is looking at $50 /5 and is an injury prone career .500 pitcher, who has great stuff, but has never harnessed it. Oh and is also a big mouth who his teams sends home early for the season.

Boricua21
11-20-05, 12:24 PM
Pavano could be huge for us in a trade. Lots of teams would pick him up.

nyyanksfan20
11-20-05, 01:16 PM
The Tigers really don't have anything for us for a trade with Pavano. Sure Monroe is a nice player but more of a corner outfielder and Nook well I like him but he isn't very good.

Mattpat11
11-20-05, 01:21 PM
And all you have to do is look at some old threads where Cano was skewered, roasted and spit out by a lot of people here when he was slumping in August, or after he made an error. I think the errors are different than the skump. The slump was to be expected. The errors on the other hand, weren't rookie errors as much as they were just stupid errors. Some looked like straight up laziness and others looked like an awful attempt to get a web gem.

jnewmark
11-20-05, 03:05 PM
I think the errors are different than the skump. The slump was to be expected. The errors on the other hand, weren't rookie errors as much as they were just stupid errors. Some looked like straight up laziness and others looked like an awful attempt to get a web gem.

Have to agree with you. I was'nt real high on Cano after reading some reports on him early in the season, but he won me over real quick.However, some of the errors seemed to be lack of focus, the discussion of which was not limited to this forum, but written about by baseball writers in general. Hopefully next season he will concentrate a little harder.

Yankees1962
11-20-05, 05:24 PM
I think the errors are different than the skump. The slump was to be expected. The errors on the other hand, weren't rookie errors as much as they were just stupid errors. Some looked like straight up laziness and others looked like an awful attempt to get a web gem.
To me, lazy and stupid errors are rookie mistakes based on the lack of concentration and attention to details.