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DiMaggio5CF
11-16-05, 04:12 PM
I just caught the end of this conversation.

But apparently the White Sox' Aaron Rowand is on the trading block, but the Yankees don't have the chips needed to get him, so they're trying to bring in a third team to get the deal done.

Rowand would be my number one choice for CF.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 04:14 PM
My friend who lives in Chicago heard that there is some real smoke on the talks.

YankeeStripes
11-16-05, 04:14 PM
absolutely fantastic idea. This offseason is proceeding nicely.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:15 PM
I just caught the end of this conversation.

But apparently the White Sox' Aaron Rowand is on the trading block, but the Yankees don't have the chips needed to get him, so they're trying to bring in a third team to get the deal done.

Rowand would be my number one choice for CF.

Meh stupid move imo, depends on which ROwand we get.

The one who hit .310/.361/.544 in 2004 or the one who hit .270/.329/.407 last year. Either would be acceptable but i would only give somebody good up for the first one. His defense is overrated because of how good he played against us.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 04:16 PM
I would love to see his UZR #'s

Davios
11-16-05, 04:17 PM
I love the idea of Rowand in center. I cringe at what the Yankees are going to end up giving up for him if a deal occurs.

whalers
11-16-05, 04:17 PM
Meh stupid move imo, depends on which ROwand we get.

The one who hit .310/.361/.544 in 2004 or the one who hit .270/.329/.407 last year. Either would be acceptable but i would only give somebody good up for the first one. His defense is overrated because of how good he played against us.


I think either one is an improvement over Bubba.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 04:17 PM
Meh stupid move imo, depends on which ROwand we get.

The one who hit .310/.361/.544 in 2004 or the one who hit .270/.329/.407 last year. Either would be acceptable but i would only give somebody good up for the first one. His defense is overrated because of how good he played against us.

His defensive statistics show him as possibly the elite defensive CFer in major league baseball.

ppa79
11-16-05, 04:18 PM
It all depends on who we are giving up.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:19 PM
It all depends are who we are giving up.

pretty much how i feel, and i have a feeling its sheff which is why im not excited about this.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 04:20 PM
pretty much how i feel, and i have a feeling its sheff which is why im not excited about this.
They better be prepared to sign Giles then ... you need to replace Sheffield's offensive production.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:20 PM
I think either one is an improvement over Bubba.

There are a ton of 28 year old career AAA players better than Crosby. I dont have a probelm with Rowand im just worried we are going to get fleeced.

DiMaggio5CF
11-16-05, 04:21 PM
Meh stupid move imo, depends on which ROwand we get.

The one who hit .310/.361/.544 in 2004 or the one who hit .270/.329/.407 last year. Either would be acceptable but i would only give somebody good up for the first one. His defense is overrated because of how good he played against us.

While I obviously haven't seen him as much as others, I did watch a lot of ChiSox games this season, and his defense is outstanding, based on what I've seen.

What the Yankees really need in CF is a whiz with a glove. The down side is that most of those guys are somewhat of automatic outs. Rowand is that superb glove who can at least hold his own with the stick.

He's exactly what the Yankees need, IMO.

whalers
11-16-05, 04:21 PM
pretty much how i feel, and i have a feeling its sheff which is why im not excited about this.

If they replace Sheff with Giles I wouldnt be too upset about this.

njdhockey
11-16-05, 04:21 PM
It all depends on who we are giving up.
I agree 100% with what you said. Also I am not sure what his defensive numbers are but they better be good because we are not going to be sure which Rowand we get offensively.

Mark19
11-16-05, 04:22 PM
Think about it this way, what do the White Sox really need? Their bullpen is stacked, their infield is solid, their rotation is supreme, what could we possibly offer them?

whalers
11-16-05, 04:23 PM
Think about it this way, what do the White Sox really need? Their bullpen is stacked, their infield is solid, their rotation is supreme, what could we possibly offer them?

Thats why there would be a third team invovled.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 04:23 PM
There are a ton of 28 year old career AAA players better than Crosby. I dont have a probelm with Rowand im just worried we are going to get fleeced.
If there are a few prospects in the deal, I'm all for it.

THEBOSS84
11-16-05, 04:25 PM
Its not just the OBP, its another guy who works the count and tires out the pitcher.

Seriously guys, I don't see the reason for the love affair with Rowand.
When he played us he made around 4-5 awesome plays in the field. However, over the course of the playoffs he did not do anything special in the field to catch my attention. I remember him hitting into multiple double plays in fact.
Now this guy might cost us some nice prospects, is he really worth it?

BeantownYankee
11-16-05, 04:25 PM
Meh stupid move imo, depends on which ROwand we get.

The one who hit .310/.361/.544 in 2004 or the one who hit .270/.329/.407 last year. Either would be acceptable but i would only give somebody good up for the first one. His defense is overrated because of how good he played against us.

How often did you see him play? Are you from the Chicago area or is this a blind comment?

Mark19
11-16-05, 04:26 PM
Thats why there would be a third team invovled.

Which begs the question, do they have such a glaring weakness that they would deal their young, talented CF?

njdhockey
11-16-05, 04:26 PM
If there are a few prospects in the deal, I'm all for it.
I hope by prospects you meant career AAA guys or mid level guys. No way should the Yankees give up Henry, Jackson, Gardner, Cox, Schmidt, Hughes, Duncan ,etc. you get the point. My opinion on this relies on who would get the boot.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:27 PM
While I obviously haven't seen him as much as others, I did watch a lot of ChiSox games this season, and his defense is outstanding, based on what I've seen.

What the Yankees really need in CF is a whiz with a glove. The down side is that most of those guys are somewhat of automatic outs. Rowand is that superb glove who can at least hold his own with the stick.

He's exactly what the Yankees need, IMO.

yes but we also need a competant MLB hitter which ROwand at his worst is more than capable to fill that role, but i have fears of who we are going to give up.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:29 PM
How often did you see him play? Are you from the Chicago area or is this a blind comment?

Im not from chicago but i did see him play a lot. He is great with the glove but he is not the Torre Hunter(in his prime) that people think we are getting. He is overrated by some of us because he played amazing defense against us, hes not going to be doing what he did in Yankee Stadium last year(I was at all 3 games), every night. He is a great fielder but not an elite fielder imo.

I dont have a problem with his play, he is exactly what we need, but who we give up is important too and I dont think he is worth sheff(the guy who i think will be traded)

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:32 PM
If they replace Sheff with Giles I wouldnt be too upset about this.

I heard Giles is likely to go to the Cards and doesnt want to play in New York.

JDPNYY
11-16-05, 04:32 PM
Im not from chicago but i did see him play a lot. He is great with the glove but he is not the Torre Hunter(in his prime) that people think we are getting. He is overrated by some of us because he played amazing defense against us, hes not going to be doing what he did in Yankee Stadium last year(I was at all 3 games), every night. He is a great fielder but not an elite fielder imo.

I dont have a problem with his play, he is exactly what we need, but who we give up is important too and I dont think he is worth sheff(the guy who i think will be traded)

Who would you prefer in CF?

sundstrom
11-16-05, 04:33 PM
there has also been talk of griffey going to the white sox as well. perhaps that's the 3rd team in and the yanks can offer $$ (as usual)

yanksphan
11-16-05, 04:34 PM
Seriously guys, I don't see the reason for the love affair with Rowand.
When he played us he made around 4-5 awesome plays in the field. However, over the course of the playoffs he did not do anything special in the field to catch my attention. I remember him hitting into multiple double plays in fact.
Now this guy might cost us some nice prospects, is he really worth it?

If you had watched him on a regular basis - you'd be singing a different tune.

Rowand had a +24 UZR (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/major_league_baseball_first_timers_highlight_al_gold_gloves/) in CF this year. 2nd in the AL only to Nook Logan's +30.

He was above the league average in FP, RF and RF/9

It wasn't just the games at YS. The guy is a superb defender, and exactly what we have needed for 5 years now.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 04:35 PM
Who would you prefer in CF?

Depends on the price is Rowand doesnt cost sheff than i would like him. If he does than Wilkerson or Bradley, if neither of them then Jones.

NewEraYanks2527
11-16-05, 04:36 PM
I heard Giles is likely to go to the Cards and doesnt want to play in New York.
Yea there is alot of that going around and I have links that say (www.prosportsdaily (http://www.prosportsdaily)) that Giles doesnt care where he goes, so really that is a gray area. I dont but to much stock in what anyone has heard about him wanting or not wanting to go to New York.

whalers
11-16-05, 04:37 PM
I heard Giles is likely to go to the Cards and doesnt want to play in New York.

Thats news to me. The most recent articles quote Giles agent as saying he does not care where he plays.

This is from 11/12:
"Bick (Giles' agent) would not be more specific, but he reiterated that Giles would like to play in New York, though Giles has a reputation as a West Coast kind of guy."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/364868p-310742c.html

Stealthspy
11-16-05, 04:41 PM
This season has elevated Rowand from an above-average CF to a good CF. His jumps have improved and his glove is simply solid. He's always been very agressive, which allows him to make the highlight play more often, accounting for all the fans of his "spectacular" or "elite" CF performance. He isn't in the elite, in my opinion from watching him, regardless of what UZR can tell you (I don't believe in it). He's way better than anything else we have to offer. Bubba is average or a tick above, Matsui is average, or a tick below due to his lack of speed. Rowand makes the most of his tools. He's the type you want to build an OF around.

But offensively, he isn't entirely the Yankee model. He doesn't walk a lot (~60 combined over the last two years), but can hit solid gap shots and the long ball occationally, except in his 2004 season where he showed very good power to the tune of a .544 SLG. I admit I haven't seen him hit much, but it seems like a little patience would go a long way with him.

I don't understand why the Sox are putting him up for a trade. He makes 3.25 Mil in '06, and has a club option for 5 million in '07. With his '05 numbers that's a major bargain. With his '04 numbers, that's a steal.

edit With his defense, and salary, he's worth Sheffield. I'd do Rowand for Sheffield in a second, only because Sheffield's defense declining could be a huge factor in how he might decline offensively this season. Keep in mind his quick wrists enable him to turn on the inside pitch. Without this bat speed, he's nothing, and with increasing age comes decreasing bat speed. So it doesn't look good for Gary's future.

Dr. Gonzo
11-16-05, 04:42 PM
I just hope they don't over pay in lust,
i.e. Randy johnson

BillBuckner
11-16-05, 04:43 PM
If the Yankees dont have the chips to get him straigh up, then they are most likely going to get shafted in this deal. I'd love Rowand in center, he's a solid ballplayer, the sort we need. But he isnt worth giving up any of our top-notch prospects.

Stealthspy
11-16-05, 04:43 PM
Yea there is alot of that going around and I have links that say (www.prosportsdaily (http://www.prosportsdaily)) that Giles doesnt care where he goes, so really that is a gray area. I dont but to much stock in what anyone has heard about him wanting or not wanting to go to New York.I agree with you, but he could just be leaving his options open to increase his stock. If he has another team competing, he's likely to get way more money than he would otherwise. The Yankees, with their budget, are a prime target for this.

27IsNext
11-16-05, 04:43 PM
It all depends on what we have to give up.

jimmykey2
11-16-05, 04:48 PM
If the Yankees dont have the chips to get him straigh up, then they are most likely going to get shafted in this deal. I'd love Rowand in center, he's a solid ballplayer, the sort we need. But he isnt worth giving up any of our top-notch prospects.


100% true.


Rowand is a good CF, but he didn't hit at all after the All-Star break. He shouldn't cost us that much, but Kenny Williams, like most GMs are trying to put Cashman over the barrel.

Kulish29
11-16-05, 04:49 PM
This is either the best or worst news I've heard all day.

ICEBERG18
11-16-05, 04:59 PM
Actually, Sweeny Murti from WFAN reported that the Yankees will look into getting him via a 3-team trade.

Mike jumped on the rumor like he reported it. :lol:

DiMaggio5CF
11-16-05, 05:00 PM
A caller on Mike and the Dog just asked if there was any truth to the rumor about Cano to Seattle for Ichiro.

If Sheffield is traded for Rowand and Cano is traded for Ichiro, that would solve the outfield situation. I have no idea who the Yankees would target for second base.

Maybe Alfonso Soriano . . .

apolansk
11-16-05, 05:00 PM
If you had watched him on a regular basis - you'd be singing a different tune.

Rowand had a +24 UZR (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/major_league_baseball_first_timers_highlight_al_gold_gloves/) in CF this year. 2nd in the AL only to Nook Logan's +30.

He was above the league average in FP, RF and RF/9

It wasn't just the games at YS. The guy is a superb defender, and exactly what we have needed for 5 years now.

If you consider how big Comerica is where Logan plays, which might allow him to get to balls that might be over the wall in Chicago. Which makes his UZR all the more remarkable.

27IsNext
11-16-05, 05:00 PM
His FRAR this year was 27, RATE2 was 104. He posted a +24 UZR.

He definately has the defensive goods.

27IsNext
11-16-05, 05:01 PM
A caller on Mike and the Dog just asked if there was any truth to the rumor about Cano to Seattle for Ichiro.

If Sheffield is traded for Rowand and Cano is traded for Ichiro, that would solve the outfield situation. I have no idea who the Yankees would target for second base.

Maybe Alfonso Soriano . . .

Cano isn't going anywhere, and getting back Soriano to play 2B would be a travesty.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-16-05, 05:02 PM
Interesting to see how bad Kotsay was this year. -22 in CF.

ICEBERG18
11-16-05, 05:02 PM
A caller on Mike and the Dog just asked if there was any truth to the rumor about Cano to Seattle for Ichiro.

If Sheffield is traded for Rowand and Cano is traded for Ichiro, that would solve the outfield situation. I have no idea who the Yankees would target for second base.

Maybe Alfonso Soriano . . .

Stop it, Ichiro is not going anywhere. That's just talk show talk.

TacoBomber
11-16-05, 05:03 PM
Pavano/$$$ to Seattle, Ichiro/Gil Meche to Chicago, Rowand to NYY, Damaso Marte to Seattle?

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-16-05, 05:04 PM
Wright/Pavano are surely goners this offseason...

JDPNYY
11-16-05, 05:05 PM
Actually, Sweeny Murti from WFAN reported that the Yankees will look into getting him via a 3-team trade.

Mike jumped on the rumor like he reported it. :lol:

Wow... that's so.... unlike Mike.

apolansk
11-16-05, 05:05 PM
I love Hot Stove talk.

ICEBERG18
11-16-05, 05:06 PM
Wright/Pavano are surely goners this offseason...

Highly doubt it.

Blokee
11-16-05, 05:06 PM
If we could bring in Rowand for anything like Pavano or preferably Wright then it is a great deal. Rowand would be a very sound signing but obviously it depends on who we give up to get him.

Boogiedown Bomber
11-16-05, 05:06 PM
ah jeez...yet another thread on fat man and the little one.

Stupid Flanders
11-16-05, 05:08 PM
I really don't think it's Sheffield. Melky and Henn, or Duncan.

I'd believe Posada before Sheffield

BJG
11-16-05, 05:08 PM
Which begs the question, do they have such a glaring weakness that they would deal their young, talented CF?

They don't need a glaring weakness to trade him if they think his replacement, whom they already have, is ready to take over for him.

Darth_Takeo
11-16-05, 05:08 PM
Rowand > Giles

A good friend of mine said he heard Sporting News Radio throw out one idea of using Cano as a trade chip for a CFer then signing Furcal to play 2nd... Personally I hate the idea of trading Cano regardless of what we get, but I love Cano so I'm extra biased.

bostonyankeefan
11-16-05, 05:10 PM
Cano isn't going anywhere, and getting back Soriano to play 2B would be a travesty.

I don't want to trade Cano, but if we did, I would rather try to get Nomar on the cheap to replace him than go after Soriano.

Rowand would look great in pinstripes. The guy is a very solid player, and he covers a ton of ground in the OF. I would hate to lose Sheff, but I would give him up for Rowand.

Tifoso
11-16-05, 05:10 PM
Personally I hate the idea of trading Cano regardless of what we get, but I love Cano so I'm extra biased.


Even if you got the best 2nd baseman in the league?

Kulish29
11-16-05, 05:12 PM
Pavano/$$$ to Seattle, Ichiro/Gil Meche to Chicago, Rowand to NYY, Damaso Marte to Seattle?

RealGM says: Crirical internal error. Shutdown imminent.

Tifoso
11-16-05, 05:12 PM
RealGM says: Crirical internal error. Shutdown imminent.

:lol:

Darth_Takeo
11-16-05, 05:14 PM
Even if you got the best 2nd baseman in the league?
Yeah because most likely, the best 2nd basemen isn't all that young and Cano could very well end up as one of the best 2nd basemen ever, plus it's highly unlikely such a deal would ever be made...

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 05:14 PM
Rowand > Giles

A good friend of mine said he heard Sporting News Radio throw out one idea of using Cano as a trade chip for a CFer then signing Furcal to play 2nd... Personally I hate the idea of trading Cano regardless of what we get, but I love Cano so I'm extra biased.

Furcal is a good player, but one of his best assests, his arm, would be wasted at 2nd.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 05:15 PM
Even if you got the best 2nd baseman in the league?

I hope you arent talking about soriano...

BJG
11-16-05, 05:16 PM
Yeah because most likely, the best 2nd basemen isn't all that young and Cano could very well end up as one of the best 2nd basemen ever, plus it's highly unlikely such a deal would ever be made...

1. The Mariners would have to get an awful lot to trade Ichiro. More than this. Even then, it is just highly unlikely. You have to remember who owns the team and how much he loves the guy.

2. Robinson Cano has no shot at being the best 2nd baseman ever.

Darth_Takeo
11-16-05, 05:18 PM
1. The Mariners would have to get an awful lot to trade Ichiro. More than this. Even then, it is just highly unlikely. You have to remember who owns the team and how much he loves the guy.

2. Robinson Cano has no shot at being the best 2nd baseman ever.
1. Not sure where I mentioned Ichiro...

2. Can you give me the winning powerball or megamillion lotto numbers? This whole work thing is getting old and I could do well to retire at 25.. :D

Mark19
11-16-05, 05:20 PM
Of course this would fly in the face of what Cashman is trying to do but perhaps we could ship some quality arms (ML ready like Small/Chacon, or prospects like DeSalvo/Clippard) to the Reds with a bundle of cash and they can send Griffey to Chicago where he can be the DH/CF. The White Sox would also send Damaso Marte to the Reds and maybe a spare part like Timo Perez or Willie Harris. Maybe the Yanks could even wrangle Jason LaRue away from Cincy so he can split some work with Jorge.

JfromJersey
11-16-05, 05:22 PM
This idea that Gary "You don't want to trade for me" Sheffield, will be part of a deal is not realistic. I also think the Yankees are absolutely committed to keeping Cano. Pavano and prospects seem a realistic possibility, although the Yanks would probably have to absorb some of the money he is owed.

ryanthe13th
11-16-05, 05:22 PM
So have they named who would be leaving NY, the third team, or is this still just a big pile of BS?

BJG
11-16-05, 05:23 PM
2. Can you give me the winning powerball or megamillion lotto numbers? This whole work thing is getting old and I could do well to retire at 25.. :D

I'm sure you could go to any sports book and get really, really good odds on a bet that Cano becomes the best 2nd baseman in the entire history of the game. It's just as good as the lottery.

YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 05:23 PM
It all depends on who we are giving up.

That's the question for absolutely ANY trade.

Stupid Flanders
11-16-05, 05:24 PM
Of course this would fly in the face of what Cashman is trying to do but perhaps we could ship some quality arms (ML ready like Small/Chacon, or prospects like DeSalvo/Clippard) to the Reds with a bundle of cash and they can send Griffey to Chicago where he can be the DH/CF. The White Sox would also send Damaso Marte to the Reds and maybe a spare part like Timo Perez or Willie Harris. Maybe the Yanks could even wrangle Jason LaRue away from Cincy so he can split some work with Jorge.
What it is Christmas in Cincinatti? Chacon, Small, Marte and Perez for Griffey?

Darth_Takeo
11-16-05, 05:24 PM
I'm sure you could go to any sports book and get really, really good odds on a bet that Cano becomes the best 2nd baseman in the entire history of the game. It's just as good as the lottery.
Could be, but someone usually wins, so there IS a chance.. ;)

BJG
11-16-05, 05:25 PM
It would seem that the very reason to get a third team involved is to not trade prospects, no? To trade Sheffield or Pavano or Wright or Small or whomever on the ML roster for players that Chicago wants, be they prospect or major leaguer.

BJG
11-16-05, 05:26 PM
Could be, but someone usually wins, so there IS a chance.. ;)

In your case, the casino would win.

SoCal Pinstriper
11-16-05, 05:27 PM
I'm in the "depends on what we give up" camp, and also the "confused as to why Chicago would want to move Rowand" camp. There are miles of dense confusing woods that seperate the two camps, so maybe sombody can help me navigate them.

I understand that we would be OK if we signed Giles, and traded Sheff in a three way for Rowand. I would be ecstatic if we were able to somhow deal Wright/Pavano/$ in a three way ending up with Rowand.

Where you guys are losing me in the woods, is in how this works for the WhiteSox. Realisticly (without knowing about their prospects), all they need this off season is to replace Konerko's bat (no small task). Why would they deal a productive player like Rowand who is signed for cheap to accomplish that (unless they have a great CF waiting in the wings).

Help me out. How does this work for the Chisox?

Jaeho
11-16-05, 05:27 PM
If the Yankees could get Ichiro for Cano, they would do it in a second. But Seattle would want A LOT more than Cano. Lets try Cano, Duncan, and Wang. Even then Seattle would probably get better offers for Ichiro if they ever put him on the market.

The Rowand talk sums up the attitude of many Yankee fans. They want good players, but they never want the other team to get anything in return except our overpaid garbage. You want to get Rowand, but not give up any top prospects or Sheffield? Give me a break. The days of the other teams being our farm systems are over.

PerfectCone
11-16-05, 05:28 PM
I just caught the end of this conversation.

But apparently the White Sox' Aaron Rowand is on the trading block, but the Yankees don't have the chips needed to get him, so they're trying to bring in a third team to get the deal done.

Rowand would be my number one choice for CF.

True, he played spectacularly at the Stadium. Not true that he is overrated. He is one of the top four or five cf's in MLB. Plus, the fact that he played so well at the Stadium should make everyone here happier than a pig in s*$t! Aren't we always wishing for guys that can raise the level of play when they are in da BX?

Darth_Takeo
11-16-05, 05:29 PM
In your case, the casino would win.
I once won $50 on a nickel slot machine in a casino while on a Carnival cruise! :D

This obviously translates to Cano becoming 2nd base king. Surely you can see this too!
:lol:

New Murderer's Row
11-16-05, 05:29 PM
the white sox can trade rowand because they have several good prospects playing OF in the minors (i believe their names are brian anderson, ryan sweeney, and chris young) ...same reason they traded jeremy reed (who hit .409 in a AA season) for freddy garcia in '04. i can't recall their names, but i don't think the chisox want any part of griffey. (who would?)
i doubt they'd trade for more pitching after priding themselves on how good their rotation was, and with konerko probably leaving town for a ridiculous contract i would assume they want a power hitter.

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 05:31 PM
So, is this just a "it might happen," "theres a good chance" or a "complete rumor" type of deal

BJG
11-16-05, 05:31 PM
I'm in the "depends on what we give up" camp, and also the "confused as to why Chicago would want to move Rowand" camp. There are miles of dense confusing woods that seperate the two camps, so maybe sombody can help me navigate them.

I understand that we would be OK if we signed Giles, and traded Sheff in a three way for Rowand. I would be ecstatic if we were able to somhow deal Wright/Pavano/$ in a three way ending up with Rowand.

Where you guys are losing me in the woods, is in how this works for the WhiteSox. Realisticly (without knowing about their prospects), all they need this off season is to replace Konerko's bat (no small task). Why would they deal a productive player like Rowand who is signed for cheap to accomplish that (unless they have a great CF waiting in the wings).

Help me out. How does this work for the Chisox?

The White Sox would like to Brian Anderson, who is 23 and cheaper than Rowand, to be their centerfielder moving forward. They think he is ready to play every day. This means that they have to move Rowand. What they want in return depends on other factors. If they lose Konerko, they will probably look to regain that ML production, either with another 1B or by getting a RF and moving Dye to 1B. If they keep Konerko, perhaps they'll want prospects back so they can keep building towards the future. Or, they could want something else on the ML level where they think they need an upgrade. Anderson is the reason, though.

Stupid Flanders
11-16-05, 05:37 PM
I'm in the "depends on what we give up" camp, and also the "confused as to why Chicago would want to move Rowand" camp. There are miles of dense confusing woods that seperate the two camps, so maybe sombody can help me navigate them.

I understand that we would be OK if we signed Giles, and traded Sheff in a three way for Rowand. I would be ecstatic if we were able to somhow deal Wright/Pavano/$ in a three way ending up with Rowand.

Where you guys are losing me in the woods, is in how this works for the WhiteSox. Realisticly (without knowing about their prospects), all they need this off season is to replace Konerko's bat (no small task). Why would they deal a productive player like Rowand who is signed for cheap to accomplish that (unless they have a great CF waiting in the wings).

Help me out. How does this work for the Chisox?
Brian Anderson was ready to play this season. They want to stop blocking him

SoCal Pinstriper
11-16-05, 05:38 PM
the white sox can trade rowand because they have several good prospects playing OF in the minors (i believe their names are brian anderson, ryan sweeney, and chris young) ...same reason they traded jeremy reed (who hit .409 in a AA season) for freddy garcia in '04. i can't recall their names,.

The White Sox would like to Brian Anderson, who is 23 and cheaper than Rowand, to be their centerfielder moving forward. They think he is ready to play every day. This means that they have to move Rowand. What they want in return depends on other factors. If they lose Konerko, they will probably look to regain that ML production, either with another 1B or by getting a RF and moving Dye to 1B. If they keep Konerko, perhaps they'll want prospects back so they can keep building towards the future. Or, they could want something else on the ML level where they think they need an upgrade. Anderson is the reason, though.Thanks guys, Anderson is the key that I was missing. Seems unlikly that they'll pull the trigger on anything until they know Konerko's fate.

Again, Thanks.

Mark19
11-16-05, 05:40 PM
What it is Christmas in Cincinatti? Chacon, Small, Marte and Perez for Griffey?

Well, in all fairness, it would only be 1 of our pitchers. Frankly I would feel uncomfortable giving away more than Aaron Small, Steven White and a AAA position player.

ryanthe13th
11-16-05, 05:41 PM
So, is this just a "it might happen," "theres a good chance" or a "complete rumor" type of deal

I tried asking the same thing and my request was just lost in a sea of speculation.

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 05:42 PM
I tried asking the same thing and my request was just lost in a sea of speculation.

usually does. I take this as just a rumor that could happen, but has no legs. As previously mentioned, they have to wait and see about Konerko.

PerfectCone
11-16-05, 05:43 PM
edit With his defense, and salary, he's worth Sheffield. I'd do Rowand for Sheffield in a second, only because Sheffield's defense declining could be a huge factor in how he might decline offensively this season. Keep in mind his quick wrists enable him to turn on the inside pitch. Without this bat speed, he's nothing, and with increasing age comes decreasing bat speed. So it doesn't look good for Gary's future.

Dude, what makes you think this? How old is Sheff now, 38? He has the fastest hands in baseball at the plate. What makes you think that skill is going to evaporate overnight? I think everyone is a little too hung up on the issue of age. I'm not saying age is superior, but we need to open our eyes in certain cases and just forget about age. And Yes, Sheffield is one of those cases. That being said, I would trade him for Rowand as well. ;)

The Q Bomb
11-16-05, 05:43 PM
Can someone tell me why The White Sox would trade Rowand? Something just doesn't add up here. In particular, why would they want Cano when they supposedly have this great, young, second baseman (the Japanese guy). They don't need pitching which, oddly enough we now have in surplus. Again, something here doesn't add up.

MisterNovember
11-16-05, 05:45 PM
I could see Wang getting traded to Seattle in a threeway deal, with the Yanks getting Rowand.

I love the hot stove.

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 05:46 PM
Can someone tell me why The White Sox would trade Rowand? Something just doesn't add up here. In particular, why would they want Cano when they supposedly have this great, young, second baseman (the Japanese guy). They don't need pitching which, oddly enough we now have in surplus. Again, something here doesn't add up.

The Anderson kid. He was ready this year, but had no room to play. I dont think that Tadahito is young, but I doubt they ask for Robbie.

yanksphan
11-16-05, 05:47 PM
Can someone tell me why The White Sox would trade Rowand? Something just doesn't add up here. In particular, why would they want Cano when they supposedly have this great, young, second baseman (the Japanese guy). They don't need pitching which, oddly enough we now have in surplus. Again, something here doesn't add up.

Read the whole thread - or actually just back a few posts - and you'll see...

Davios
11-16-05, 05:47 PM
Can someone tell me why The White Sox would trade Rowand? Something just doesn't add up here. In particular, why would they want Cano when they supposedly have this great, young, second baseman (the Japanese guy). They don't need pitching which, oddly enough we now have in surplus. Again, something here doesn't add up.


How many posts have already stated they have young talented outfielders awaiting a call-up.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 05:50 PM
Q: Why trade Sheffield?

Even after his contract he would make an EXCELLENT DH for us.

The Q Bomb
11-16-05, 05:50 PM
How many posts have already stated they have young talented outfielders awaiting a call-up.Sorry - I missed them. How old is Rowand?

Captain Yankee
11-16-05, 05:50 PM
Brian Anderson and the White Sox possibly losing Konerko to the Angels could make a Rowand deal where we give up Sheffield a real possibility.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 05:56 PM
Konerko will stay in Chicago

terminator
11-16-05, 05:57 PM
Brian Anderson and the White Sox possibly losing Konerko to the Angels could make a Rowand deal where we give up Sheffield a real possibility.

It would make sense for the White Sox to get Sheff. They got rid of Thomas and Everett - and their salaries - so I don't think the 13 million owed to Sheff would bother them.
They could re-sign Konerko, have Dye and Sheff share DH and LF responsibilities, and add the big bat they did not have in 2005. Not that it hurt them - but they needed to get better on that end.

Basically, is Sheff+Anderson > Rowand + Everett ? Thats the question.

ryanthe13th
11-16-05, 05:58 PM
Q: Why trade Sheffield?

Even after his contract he would make an EXCELLENT DH for us.

Exactly. I don't know why people are so hung up on getting rid of Gary Sheffield. This guy openly complained about playing for any other team than the Yankees. Why get rid of him?

nyctalopia
11-16-05, 05:58 PM
Can someone tell me why The White Sox would trade Rowand? Something just doesn't add up here. In particular, why would they want Cano when they supposedly have this great, young, second baseman (the Japanese guy). They don't need pitching which, oddly enough we now have in surplus. Again, something here doesn't add up.
1) read the thread before you ask questions that have already been answered.
2) why is it that people just REFUSE to spend the time finding out names of foreign players. it's always "that Japanese guy," or "that Korean pitcher," or that "Dominican outfielder." Stop being so damn lazy.

Tifoso
11-16-05, 05:59 PM
Exactly. I don't know why people are so hung up on getting rid of Gary Sheffield. This guy openly complained about playing for any other team than the Yankees. Why get rid of him?

Agreed. :)

Beast Master
11-16-05, 06:01 PM
if we move wang or chacon does anyone see burnett as a possibility? Without picking up a free agent pitcher, I don't see us having the starters to send wang anywhere. Realistically, the chances that wright pitches all next year are very small, and there is almost garunteed to be another injury in our geriatric rotation.

We'd have rotation of

RJ
Moose
Pavano
Burnett
wang/chacon (whoever doesn't get sent away)

Wright in the pen
Small as long guy,

which I could live with. This wang for rowand thing seems to make sense, and I think you have to do it if you can, but I'm going to be sorry to see him go. I thought he would have made a hell of a relief pitcher.

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 06:04 PM
I'd trade Wright or Pavano before Chacon or Wang

Mark19
11-16-05, 06:04 PM
if we move wang or chacon does anyone see burnett as a possibility? Without picking up a free agent pitcher, I don't see us having the starters to send wang anywhere. Realistically, the chances that wright pitches all next year are very small, and there is almost garunteed to be another injury in our geriatric rotation.

We'd have rotation of

RJ
Moose
Pavano
Burnett
wang/chacon (whoever doesn't get sent away)

Wright in the pen
Small as long guy,

which I could live with. This wang for rowand thing seems to make sense, and I think you have to do it if you can, but I'm going to be sorry to see him go. I thought he would have made a hell of a relief pitcher.


The Cashman Yankees aren't going to throw $50 million at a tempermental NL pitcher who has an injury history and a sub .500 career record.

Wade_Taylor
11-16-05, 06:05 PM
How many posts have already stated they have young talented outfielders awaiting a call-up.

Also, keep this in mind. It seems that several of the teams emerging stars are headed towards raises in arbitration, i.e. Crede and Garland. Also Hardball Dollars lists Pierzynski as not having a contract for next year, so he may also be arbitration eligible or he may be owed some additional money. Finally, Konerko will get at least $13 million from them which will bump their payroll fron roughly $61 million to $74 million right off the bat. Lets say Garland and Crede get between the 2 of them $8-10 million and basically the White Sox are at their payroll from last year before adding a DH and probably some other bullpen arms. So I could see Kenny Williams thinking that Anderson and maybe eventually Young could do Rowand's job but for a fraction of the price.

Also Garland is a FA after this season and Buehrle and Crede are FAs after next so they will have to spend a lot of money soon

AMYanks
11-16-05, 06:05 PM
I doubt Sheffield would even be in a discussion, but I would be estatic if we could turn Sheffield into Rowand and Giles.

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 06:06 PM
if we move wang or chacon does anyone see burnett as a possibility? Without picking up a free agent pitcher, I don't see us having the starters to send wang anywhere. Realistically, the chances that wright pitches all next year are very small, and there is almost garunteed to be another injury in our geriatric rotation.

We'd have rotation of

RJ
Moose
Pavano
Burnett
wang/chacon (whoever doesn't get sent away)

Wright in the pen
Small as long guy,

which I could live with. This wang for rowand thing seems to make sense, and I think you have to do it if you can, but I'm going to be sorry to see him go. I thought he would have made a hell of a relief pitcher.


Im sick of free agent starters. It would take a legit star to get my support. Burnett got kicked off his team last year, which can't mean good things attitude wise. Plus he would get a lot of money/years.
RJ
Moose
Chacon
Pavano
Wang
is fine with me. Wright in the pen, and someone will be hurt so we have him and possibly Small as backups

StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 06:08 PM
For once, I have comfort in our rotation

apolansk
11-16-05, 06:08 PM
The Cashman Yankees aren't going to throw $50 million at a tempermental NL pitcher who has an injury history and a sub .500 career record.

...again?

gdn
11-16-05, 06:22 PM
I'm not so sure about this. I'd rather throw money (Giles) than prospects/Cano. It will really come down to who we give up to make this happen. I'll reserve judgment till those details become available.

Yankyfan
11-16-05, 06:24 PM
Great glove avg bat at best.Why do I have the feeling Williams will rob us again?I want him but not at a high price.

gold23
11-16-05, 06:34 PM
Ok....first, Chicago ain't looking for starting pitching from the Yanks.

Secondly, Aaron Rowand is a very useful player. He's not great, but he's a pretty darn good overall player. Forgetting for a minute that he always seems to murder Boston (he hits Wakefield better than any pitcher in his career...would just be a nice side pot), his production under pressure is phenomenal. His lifetime batting average with runners in scoring position is over .300, and with 2 out (about 150 ab's) and scoring position it is .343.

You can say small sample size all you want, but I believe this is a quantifiable skill...and he possesses it.

If you asked me for the perfect CF for the Yanks, he'd be in the top 10. Not saying he's top 10 major league CF, but if I had to pick a CF for this specific team he'd be right there.

gold23
11-16-05, 06:36 PM
If you want to trade Sheffield, offer them Sheff, Henn, and another functional prospect for Rowand and McCarthy. Williams would never do it, but would be worth throwing out.

yanksphan
11-16-05, 06:38 PM
Exactly. I don't know why people are so hung up on getting rid of Gary Sheffield. This guy openly complained about playing for any other team than the Yankees. Why get rid of him?

It's not that people WANT to get rid of Sheff - but we have needs to fill. In order to fill those needs, we have to give something of value up. Most of our valuable players have NTC or exhorberant contracts - thus un-tradeable.

Sheff's production makes his salary manageable, and he doesn't have a NTC.

Face it - we ain't getting a quality CF for Tony Womack, Jaret Wright or Carl "spent most of the season on the DL" Pavano.

gold23
11-16-05, 06:43 PM
The team needs to get younger and more athletic. Right now, you have maybe 3 players on the team in their prime- Jeter, A-rod, Matsui. Outside of Cano, you can expect downward trends over the next few years for just about every position player.

And outside of Wang and possibly Chacon, it is very likely that the rest of the staff has already realized their best seasons.

dabomb2045
11-16-05, 06:46 PM
I love the possibility of getting Rowand...he a premier defensive CF, and I'll gladly take his .270 avg and .330 OBP if he provides the type of defense for us that he gave the ChiSox last season

Yanks Lifer
11-16-05, 06:49 PM
I just caught the end of this conversation.

But apparently the White Sox' Aaron Rowand is on the trading block, but the Yankees don't have the chips needed to get him, so they're trying to bring in a third team to get the deal done.

Rowand would be my number one choice for CF.

I'm hardly a firm believer in Mike and the Mad Dog, but Rowand's name has been popping up the past few weeks with the word Yankees not far behind. Almost seems like one of those speculations you hear about right after the season that ends up happening eventually.

Assuming Cash doesn't leave the cupboard bare, and he won't, I think Rowand fits the description of what this team needs from CF very nicely. IF, and it's a big if, Sheff is involved I think Cashman also has an decent feeling that Giles would come to NY. As someone said here recently, I'd definitely take Giles + Rowand for Sheffield.

I too LOVE the hot stove!!

gold23
11-16-05, 06:51 PM
I'm hardly a firm believer in Mike and the Mad Dog, but Rowand's name has been popping up the past few weeks with the word Yankees not far behind. Almost seems like one of those speculations you hear about right after the season that ends up happening eventually.

Assuming Cash doesn't leave the cupboard bare, and he won't, I think Rowand fits the description of what this team needs from CF very nicely. IF, and it's a big if, Sheff is involved I think Cashman also has an decent feeling that Giles would come to NY. As someone said here recently, I'd definitely take Giles + Rowand for Sheffield.

I too LOVE the hot stove!!


If the Yanks locked up Giles, I would then certainly deal Sheffield in a package for Rowand. But not straight up- Sheff is way more valuable than that.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 06:54 PM
If the Yankees could get Ichiro for Cano, they would do it in a second. But Seattle would want A LOT more than Cano. Lets try Cano, Duncan, and Wang. Even then Seattle would probably get better offers for Ichiro if they ever put him on the market.

The Rowand talk sums up the attitude of many Yankee fans. They want good players, but they never want the other team to get anything in return except our overpaid garbage. You want to get Rowand, but not give up any top prospects or Sheffield? Give me a break. The days of the other teams being our farm systems are over.

I dont want Ichiro he is overrated. Rowand isnt even close to being worth sheffield.

yanksphan
11-16-05, 06:55 PM
I dont want Ichiro he is overrated. Rowand isnt even close to being worth sheffield.

117 posts into the thread, and you still think people are saying Rowand for Sheffield even-up?

gdn
11-16-05, 06:57 PM
If I was offered Ichiro for Cano, Duncan and Wang, and I were Cashman, I'd laugh till my sides hurt - literally.

Then I'd kick whoever it was out the door.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 06:58 PM
117 posts into the thread, and you still think people are saying Rowand for Sheffield even-up?

I was replying to a post on the second page that stood out to me.

dabomb2045
11-16-05, 07:01 PM
I would never do Cano for Ichiro...not a chance

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-16-05, 07:04 PM
I would never do Cano for Ichiro...not a chance

If Ichiro was the player he is hyped up to be id do it in a second but the Ms would never do it. Yet that isnt the case. Also he is a speed player which means he will likely decline sooner than pure hitters.

dabomb2045
11-16-05, 07:07 PM
If Ichiro was the player he is hyped up to be id do it in a second but the Ms would never do it. Yet that isnt the case. Also he is a speed player which means he will likely decline sooner than pure hitters.

I just think Ichiro is overrated...especially offensively....and yes, speed guys do decline sooner

Sam18
11-16-05, 07:17 PM
I didn't bother to read the whole thread so I apologize in advance if I missed something.
If this trade is Sheff for Rowand then we're getting screwd badly. Rowand maybe great defensively but he's slightly above average offensively and was way, way below average this past season. Its a bad deal if its just Sheff for Rowand.
And for the last time can we drop the Ichiro talks please? He's not worth it!!

Johnny O
11-16-05, 07:39 PM
I didn't bother to read the whole thread so I apologize in advance if I missed something.
If this trade is Sheff for Rowand then we're getting screwd badly. Rowand maybe great defensively but he's slightly above average offensively and was way, way below average this past season. Its a bad deal if its just Sheff for Rowand.
And for the last time can we drop the Ichiro talks please? He's not worth it!!

This was reported as a possible 3 way deal with little detail on names except Rowand. If the White Sox are looking to free up some cash, it makes sense to deal Rowand or Podsednik since Anderson is ready with Ryan Sweeney and Chris Young not far behind. I'd be looking to move Podsednik first if I was Kenny Williams, but Rowand does have more value.

Rowand would be a solid stop gap option in CF for the Yanks, when one considers the other options aren't very palatable.

And I agree - NO ON ICHIRO!!

Sam18
11-16-05, 07:45 PM
This was reported as a possible 3 way deal with little detail on names except Rowand. If the White Sox are looking to free up some cash, it makes sense to deal Rowand or Podsednik since Anderson is ready with Ryan Sweeney and Chris Young not far behind. I'd be looking to move Podsednik first if I was Kenny Williams, but Rowand does have more value.

Rowand would be a solid stop gap option in CF for the Yanks, when one considers the other options aren't very palatable.

And I agree - NO ON ICHIRO!!

Thanks for the info Johnny.

Allan
11-16-05, 07:46 PM
I just think Ichiro is overrated...especially offensively....and yes, speed guys do decline sooner
Just last year the man set the ML record for base hits in a single season and you say he is overrated. :eek:

JfromJersey
11-16-05, 07:59 PM
Ok....first, Chicago ain't looking for starting pitching from the Yanks.

Secondly, Aaron Rowand is a very useful player. He's not great, but he's a pretty darn good overall player. Forgetting for a minute that he always seems to murder Boston (he hits Wakefield better than any pitcher in his career...would just be a nice side pot), his production under pressure is phenomenal. His lifetime batting average with runners in scoring position is over .300, and with 2 out (about 150 ab's) and scoring position it is .343.

You can say small sample size all you want, but I believe this is a quantifiable skill...and he possesses it.

If you asked me for the perfect CF for the Yanks, he'd be in the top 10. Not saying he's top 10 major league CF, but if I had to pick a CF for this specific team he'd be right there.

You say Chicago isn't looking for starting pitchers from the Yankees, but if the deal involves 3 teams, that fact may be irrelevant.
I agree with you about Rowand though.

Iknowcool
11-16-05, 08:02 PM
The WS are putting him on the block because they have a great CF prospect in Brian Anderson. I saw him take Felix Hernandez deep last year as a pinch-hitter, Anderson is good.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 08:08 PM
Just last year the man set the ML record for base hits in a single season and you say he is overrated. :eek:

People don't understand what overrated means. A guy who hits 200+ singles a year to give him a glittery batting average is nice, but when its flanked with very little plate discipline and extra base power, its not that great. The problem is, Ichiro! is considered a top player, and he's really not. He's a GOOD player, but I read an article once asking if he or Pujols were the better choice to build a team around. That is total nonsense. Pujols gets on base more, and hits for a great deal more power. Ichiro! is overrated because, despite him lacking any secondary hitting skills, he's still often rated as an elite hitter, when in fact he isn't one.

Kudo
11-16-05, 08:11 PM
The WS are putting him on the block because they have a great CF prospect in Brian Anderson. I saw him take Felix Hernandez deep last year as a pinch-hitter, Anderson is good.

Actually I think they are highest on Chris Young, I think he is supposed to be their top OF prospect. Whatever the case if the Yankees can get Rowand without having to give up anything substantial it would be a good trade. Hey maybe Rowand would benefit too playing with so many great hitters on the Yankee squad.

27IsNext
11-16-05, 08:17 PM
If we trade Sheffield, we'd better get a lot more back than Rowand.

hardrain
11-16-05, 08:19 PM
If Rowand play center for us in 2006 -- we will be in awe every night....so THAT's how you play centerfield! I hope this happens.

Sam18
11-16-05, 08:22 PM
If we trade Sheffield, we'd better get a lot more back than Rowand.

My thoughts exactly.
What's better for next year:
Sheff, Matsui, Giles and Bubba OR Giles, Matsui and Rowand?
I go with the former.

JapanJobbers
11-16-05, 08:27 PM
A caller on Mike and the Dog just asked if there was any truth to the rumor about Cano to Seattle for Ichiro.

Ichiro is not going to get traded. The M's FO is all about making money and nobody does it better than Ichiro.

JeffWeaverFan
11-16-05, 08:29 PM
Which begs the question, do they have such a glaring weakness that they would deal their young, talented CF?
They have a prospect ready to take over in CF so Rowand is expendable. They might want prospect in return.

yank4life2005
11-16-05, 08:32 PM
What about getting Rowand for CF with Giles in RF and make Sheff the DH?

Rowand could get a breather with Giles playing CF and Sheff in RF. This would keep Sheffield fresh.

Imagine

Jeter
Giles RF
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff DH
Matsui
Posada
Rowand
Cano

That would be a GREAT lineup.

terminator
11-16-05, 08:38 PM
What about getting Rowand for CF with Giles in RF and make Sheff the DH?

Rowand could get a breather with Giles playing CF and Sheff in RF. This would keep Sheffield fresh.

Imagine

Jeter
Giles RF
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff DH
Matsui
Posada
Rowand
Cano

That would be a GREAT lineup.


That's a pretty sick lineup, but one would think that the Yankees would have to give up Sheff to make it happen. Either that, or some of their top prospects.
Considering the pitching the White Sox have, I doubt they would want either Chacon or Wang. And with Iguchi not going anywhere, they wouldn't want Cano either.

Sam18
11-16-05, 08:41 PM
What about getting Rowand for CF with Giles in RF and make Sheff the DH?

Rowand could get a breather with Giles playing CF and Sheff in RF. This would keep Sheffield fresh.

Imagine

Jeter
Giles RF
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff DH
Matsui
Posada
Rowand
Cano

That would be a GREAT lineup.

That would be awsome but like terminator said that's not happening. Therefore IMO we should go after Wilkerson who will be cheaper than Rowand.

yank4life2005
11-16-05, 08:49 PM
I would actually love to get Milton Bradley. I know he has problems but the guy can play the game. I see no reason not to sign him if he gets non-tendered by the Dodgers by 12/20.

Johnny O
11-16-05, 08:51 PM
My thoughts exactly.
What's better for next year:
Sheff, Matsui, Giles and Bubba OR Giles, Matsui and Rowand?
I go with the former.

For the White Sox - Yanks to swap Sheffield & Rowand I think the following things would need to happen:

- Chicago would pass on resigning Konerko, or do sign him & trade Garcia (unless they are willing to incur a large one year payroll jump)
- Yanks would have to sign Giles or suffer a crippling loss of offense

More likely is a scenario where the Yanks do involve a 3rd team or deal a decent, upside prospect. The White Sox are probably looking for some payroll flexibility to sign Konerko. They do possibly need a DH with Everett all but gone and Thomas' status undecided (his option was declined but he could re-sign for an incentive-laden contract).

DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
11-16-05, 09:10 PM
The Yankees were already told by Ken Williams that Rowand is not available because the Yankees have nothing they want. A three-team trade is possible but doubtful. How many 3 team trades have you heard rumored that have actually happened?

I tend to think the Yankees will sign Giles for CF and RF. Then they'll alternate Giles, Matsui and Crosby in CF and try to use Sheff as the DH since his fielding leaves much to be desired.

I also feel that since Giles will be a 3-year deal, they are still hoping they can obtain Beltran a few years down the road once the Mets feel he's not worth $16.6 million. Then we'll get a deal like we did with ARod paying perhaps $13-$14 million a year for Beltran. He's much more suited to Yankee Stadium than Shea where home runs go to die in the outfield. (See: Bobby Murcer.) Giles can still play RF while Sheffield will be a FA if he decides to play.

The Mets are going to be in a financial bind the way they are spending money and they have nothing to show for it. When Pedro and Glavine retire, they'll have to spend more money. I feel that's when we'll get Beltran.

Yankeeah
11-16-05, 09:17 PM
I would actually love to get Milton Bradley. I know he has problems but the guy can play the game. I see no reason not to sign him if he gets non-tendered by the Dodgers by 12/20.

Theres already a thread on this.

ieddyi
11-16-05, 09:19 PM
The Yankees were already told by Ken Williams that Rowand is not available because the Yankees have nothing they want. A three-team trade is possible but doubtful. How many 3 team trades have you heard rumored that have actually happened?

I tend to think the Yankees will sign Giles for CF and RF. Then they'll alternate Giles, Matsui and Crosby in CF and try to use Sheff as the DH since his fielding leaves much to be desired.

I also feel that since Giles will be a 3-year deal, they are still hoping they can obtain Beltran a few years down the road once the Mets feel he's not worth $16.6 million. Then we'll get a deal like we did with ARod paying perhaps $13-$14 million a year for Beltran. He's much more suited to Yankee Stadium than Shea where home runs go to die in the outfield. (See: Bobby Murcer.) Giles can still play RF while Sheffield will be a FA if he decides to play.

The Mets are going to be in a financial bind the way they are spending money and they have nothing to show for it. When Pedro and Glavine retire, they'll have to spend more money. I feel that's when we'll get Beltran.


I just don't get the hard on people STILL have for Beltran. He's an average CF by all defensive metrics ( and according to my Met fan friends who watched him play ). Three years from now, we should have some of our own prospects ready to play at a similar level for much less money. Comparing Beltran to Arod is laughable- the Arod deal amde sense because we were getting arguably the best player in the game. THe Mets will have money flowing in from the cable network, so won't be strapped for cash.
How long will paople pine for Beltran as a savior in the face of his subpar performance considering his salary???

NelsonMuntz
11-16-05, 09:20 PM
The Yankees were already told by Ken Williams that Rowand is not available because the Yankees have nothing they want. A three-team trade is possible but doubtful. How many 3 team trades have you heard rumored that have actually happened?
Well for starters, that is how we ended up with Randy Johnson last year.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-16-05, 09:20 PM
The Yankees were already told by Ken Williams that Rowand is not available because the Yankees have nothing they want. A three-team trade is possible but doubtful. How many 3 team trades have you heard rumored that have actually happened?

I tend to think the Yankees will sign Giles for CF and RF. Then they'll alternate Giles, Matsui and Crosby in CF and try to use Sheff as the DH since his fielding leaves much to be desired.

I also feel that since Giles will be a 3-year deal, they are still hoping they can obtain Beltran a few years down the road once the Mets feel he's not worth $16.6 million. Then we'll get a deal like we did with ARod paying perhaps $13-$14 million a year for Beltran. He's much more suited to Yankee Stadium than Shea where home runs go to die in the outfield. (See: Bobby Murcer.) Giles can still play RF while Sheffield will be a FA if he decides to play.

The Mets are going to be in a financial bind the way they are spending money and they have nothing to show for it. When Pedro and Glavine retire, they'll have to spend more money. I feel that's when we'll get Beltran.


The Mets may one day trade Beltran, but there is no way on Earth that it will be to the Yankees. Can you imagine if Beltran flounders for a couple of years, becomes an albatross and is on the block, only to get traded cross town and turn into an MVP candidate with the Yankees? The Mets could never survive the hit from their fans. Beltran might yet be traded one day, but I think there is a less than zero percent chance it's to the Yankees.

longtimeyankeefan
11-16-05, 09:27 PM
I would actually love to get Milton Bradley. I know he has problems but the guy can play the game. I see no reason not to sign him if he gets non-tendered by the Dodgers by 12/20.

Question - should we sit on our hands hoping that the Dodgers actually non-tender Bradley? Or, should we move forward with solving our CF problem in the next five weeks?

Maybe I should turn this question into a poll:D

NewEraYanks2527
11-16-05, 09:47 PM
Question - should we sit on our hands hoping that the Dodgers actually non-tender Bradley? Or, should we move forward with solving our CF problem in the next five weeks?

Maybe I should turn this question into a poll:D
I think we should solve our problems early and that means now! First of all I am bored and want to hear stuff about the Yankees every day to pass the time till opening day. Secondly and more importantly it would be nice to see the team set and have the attitude of "we dont need anything else so unless its a great offer screw." I'd like to see the Yankees sort out CF now, sign Giles and Ryan all before the Sox even have named a GM. Of course that is wishful thinking but I can hope can't I?

Mark19
11-16-05, 10:05 PM
Either way, I want to act quickly. If we don't make a move, I could imagine late january rolling around and we are stuck throwing down $14 million for a couple of years of preston wilson or juan encarnacion

Evil Empire
11-16-05, 10:09 PM
I wouldn't give up Sheff.

Jace
11-16-05, 10:17 PM
I would never do Cano for Ichiro...not a chance

If Ichiro could play a good center field (I am guessing he can. The arm is unbelievable and hes still very quick and plays fly balls very well) and maybe we could get 1/4 to 1/3 of his contract money from Seattle (of course not) I might do this. I know Cano is our pride and joy and is young and costs nothing etc, but Ichiro couples being an ok to good hitter with being a great fielder at a position where we really need a great fielder and a good hitter is a plus. Cano will probably never be a great range 2Bman, while his throwing and double-play turning looks slick and could be great if he stops making silly errors.

Id consider it more if we got Giles and could put Sheff at DH. Then we could start looking into cheap replacement level to average 2Bmen.

Edit: But at the same time I am sentimentally attached to Cano and this trade would actually make me very sad. Seriously. I think we'd be a better team but I would care a tiny bit less.

Mark19
11-16-05, 10:18 PM
Just to put things in perspective, Rowand's offensive output was only marginally better than Bernie's this year. His average was 30 points higher but he had 21 fewer walks. His 2004 numbers were quite a bit better but were only roughly equal to the 2005 numbers of Jacque Jones.

We are getting him for his defense and youth, his offensive output will be respectful but miles away from what Sheff gives us.

Wang's Groundballs
11-16-05, 11:10 PM
If we can get Rowand without giving up our top prospects I'll do it, as long as we sign Giles to replace Sheff's production (I'm assuming he'll be the one to go).

I have Rowand as +14 runs in the field last year, second in the AL (and I think ML, but I need to run the NL numbers again). His ZR+ (basically (ZR * 1000) - (Average ZR * 1000) + 100) which is just like OPS+ or ERA+ is 140, also second in the AL. So he's not just up there because of playing time...

Bernie, in less than 2/3 the amount of balls in his zone was a -8 on the year and had a 63 ZR+.

Stupid Flanders
11-17-05, 12:21 AM
The White Sox don't want Sheffield. Honestly, if they wanted a player like Sheff they would just resign Frank Thomas for less money.

Sheffield isn't going anywhere.

Mark my words, if this goes down it will be for 2 prospects and/or Wright or Pavano.

Rich
11-17-05, 12:38 AM
Giles is the priority. If he is signed, the Yankees can move on to Rowand.

apolansk
11-17-05, 12:50 AM
I Cano will probably never be a great range 2Bman, while his throwing and double-play turning looks slick and could be great if he stops making silly errors.



IIRC Cano had a UZR this year of +9 which was obviously above average.

Edit: Upon further research, it was 3rd best among AL 2b.

JfromJersey
11-17-05, 01:03 AM
The White Sox don't want Sheffield. Honestly, if they wanted a player like Sheff they would just resign Frank Thomas for less money.

Sheffield isn't going anywhere.

Mark my words, if this goes down it will be for 2 prospects and/or Wright or Pavano.

The Sox don't want Sheff, and the feeling is mutual.
Has everyone forgotten Sheff's reaction to trade speculation this past season? Why would the Sox trade a guy, who is 9 years younger, and makes 9,000,000 bucks less a year, for a disgruntled soon-to-be DH?

CTyankeefan
11-17-05, 01:11 AM
To those who say he isn't an elite CF, I ask, who is?

Griffey, Edmonds, Vernon Wells, Andrew Jones, Mike Cameron, Carlso Belatran?

That is only 6. I don't think Bradley, Wilkerson, Steve Finley are better defensive outfielders than Aaron Rowand.

I like the guy. Bat him 8th and leave him alone for the next couple of years.

But honestly, what would qualify as an elite CF? Top 5 (Rowand is arguable), Top 10 defintely.

I bet he has more range than Jim Edmonds and Griffey these days. I think he is also better than Beltran. And who knows with Cameron.

I apologize for missing some players, but Rowand is the best answer if the Yanks dont' have to give up any elite pitching prospects.

JMAN74
11-17-05, 01:27 AM
A caller on Mike and the Dog just asked if there was any truth to the rumor about Cano to Seattle for Ichiro.

If Sheffield is traded for Rowand and Cano is traded for Ichiro, that would solve the outfield situation. I have no idea who the Yankees would target for second base.

Maybe Alfonso Soriano . . .

I'd spit out my Starbucks soy-latte if we could get Ichiro. If it takes Cano (and not much else) Id do it in a second. Cano is a nice player and home grown but were talking a perrenial batting champion contender who plays a heck of an OF.

Plus he complements our O perfectly at the top of the order. Let him and Jete get on base ,wreak havoc and let the big boys knock him in.

ryanthe13th
11-17-05, 01:31 AM
I'd spit out my Starbucks soy-latte if we could get Ichiro. If it takes Cano (and not much else) Id do it in a second. Cano is a nice player and home grown but were talking a perrenial batting champion contender who plays a heck of an OF.

Plus he complements our O perfectly at the top of the order. Let him and Jete get on base ,wreak havoc and let the big boys knock him in.

Whose going to play second? Womack? I'd throw Seattle Wright or Pavano, but not Cano.

I'm all about Ichiro if he is indeed available(which doesn't seem to be the case). However, you're going to get a lot of Anti-Ichiro responses.

Stupid Flanders
11-17-05, 02:18 AM
I'd spit out my Starbucks soy-latte if we could get Ichiro. If it takes Cano (and not much else) Id do it in a second. Cano is a nice player and home grown but were talking a perrenial batting champion contender who plays a heck of an OF.

Plus he complements our O perfectly at the top of the order. Let him and Jete get on base ,wreak havoc and let the big boys knock him in.
You're talking about a "batting champion" whose only skill offensively is batting average based solely on speed. He doesn't walk, and he doesn't hit extra base hits.

In addition, he's not a centerfielder.

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 03:44 AM
It may take Shawn Chacon to get Rowand. I would do it.

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 06:06 AM
You're talking about a "batting champion" whose only skill offensively is batting average based solely on speed. He doesn't walk, and he doesn't hit extra base hits.

In addition, he's not a centerfielder.
Have you ever watched the man play? If you have, you would not say his batting average is based solely on speed. Ichiro can spray that ball anywhere on the field, and is one of the few hitters that can competently and consistently put the ball EXACTLY where he wants. This is because he has amazing hands and controls where he pokes the ball. You don't break the single-season hits record that has stood for over half a century by being 'fast.' And just because he doesn't play centerfield now doesn't mean he can't. He gets amazing jumps in the field and has one of the BEST outfield arms in the game - accurate and strong as hell. Don't get me wrong, I don't actually want him on the Yankees (because I know we'll have to give up a lot to get him), but you CANNOT dismiss him as a one-dimensional player. He really is one of the most amazing players in the game.

Edit: and he doesn't have a high SLG % because he's reiterated over and over again he doesn't want it. He knows by trying to hit doubles, he will lower his avg and obp because he'll have less chance to poke pitches off the plate into holes. I've watched him during batting practice a couple of times, and man has SERIOUS power if he chooses to use it.

justinvarnes
11-17-05, 07:47 AM
It may take Shawn Chacon to get Rowand. I would do it.


Shawn Chacon and Wang should be staples in the Yankee rotation for years to come.

Both are young enough and good enough to be .550 - .600 pitchers for the next 5-8 years. And for all the Vazquez/Weaver/Pavano, etc. who have failed here, these 2 seem unflappable in NY and in the postseason. Both are quiet guys who are consistent on the mound.

Hard to find a player worth THAT....and Rowand aint him.

That being said, Rowand would be great for this team. I would prefer Wilkerson, but after that I think Rowand would be my 2nd choice.

sjb23
11-17-05, 09:18 AM
how about this scenario:

If the White Sox lose Konerko to the Angels, the Angels lose Bengie Molina, and the Yankees can sign Ramon Hernandez, then:

Posada, Eric Duncan, and Scott Proctor to the Angels. Erstad, Donnelly, and a mid-level pitching prospect to the White Sox. Rowland and Marte to the Yankees....

The Angels will need a catcher and have the money for Posada, and Eric Duncan just had a good season in the Arizona league and played a little 1st base and of course can play 3rd - two positions the Angels will need to fill in the near future. Duncan's value and potential is probably the highest it's been and he'll be cheap for several years, which might offset Posada's ridiculous contract. Proctor somewhat offsets the loss of Donnelly. Erstad & Donnelly should both be expendable for this package.

The White Sox will need a 1st baseman with Konerko gone, and Erstad is a fine fielder and could contirbute nicely to their offense. Donnelly easily replaces Marte. who they are a bit sour on, from what I remember. They'll still want a big bat, but signing Thomas to DH might solve that issue - he is, after all, Mr.White Sox. Dealing Rowland enables them to get Brian Anderson into the lineup.The mid-level pitching prospect just sweetens the pot for the Sox.

The Yankees get a fine fielding young CFer and a good lefty reliever. Hernandez can plug the hole behind the plate nicely and Duncan just doesn't have a spot (except maybe 1B) in the near future. I'd rather give up Posada and Duncan than Sheffield, Cano, Chacon, or Wang.

Am I dreamimg? I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and make sure all three teams improve....go easy on me :)

ppa79
11-17-05, 09:30 AM
how about this scenario:

If the White Sox lose Konerko to the Angels, the Angels lose Bengie Molina, and the Yankees can sign Ramon Hernandez, then:

Posada, Eric Duncan, and Scott Proctor to the Angels. Erstad, Donnelly, and a mid-level pitching prospect to the White Sox. Rowland and Marte to the Yankees....

The Angels will need a catcher and have the money for Posada, and Eric Duncan just had a good season in the Arizona league and played a little 1st base and of course can play 3rd - two positions the Angels will need to fill in the near future. Duncan's value and potential is probably the highest it's been and he'll be cheap for several years, which might offset Posada's ridiculous contract. Proctor somewhat offsets the loss of Donnelly. Erstad & Donnelly should both be expendable for this package.

The White Sox will need a 1st baseman with Konerko gone, and Erstad is a fine fielder and could contirbute nicely to their offense. Donnelly easily replaces Marte. who they are a bit sour on, from what I remember. They'll still want a big bat, but signing Thomas to DH might solve that issue - he is, after all, Mr.White Sox. Dealing Rowland enables them to get Brian Anderson into the lineup.The mid-level pitching prospect just sweetens the pot for the Sox.

The Yankees get a fine fielding young CFer and a good lefty reliever. Hernandez can plug the hole behind the plate nicely and Duncan just doesn't have a spot (except maybe 1B) in the near future. I'd rather give up Posada and Duncan than Sheffield, Cano, Chacon, or Wang.

Am I dreamimg? I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and make sure all three teams improve....go easy on me :)

Who's Rowland??

Sam18
11-17-05, 09:33 AM
Who's Rowland??

Ask A-rod.

ppa79
11-17-05, 09:34 AM
Ask A-rod.

Maybe we can trade A-rod for Rowland. If they don't like that maybe we can throw in Geetar.

Sam18
11-17-05, 09:43 AM
Maybe we can trade A-rod for Rowland. If they don't like that maybe we can throw in Geetar.

If we trade A-rod then who's gonna smack around Brandon Arroyo?

ppa79
11-17-05, 09:45 AM
If we trade A-rod then who's gonna smack around Brandon Arroyo?

:lol: :lol:

DontHateOnNumber2
11-17-05, 09:46 AM
All I see is endless trade possibilities to get Aaron Rowand. I wouldn't mind getting him, but I wouldn't want him to cost any high-level prospects. None.

DJ27
11-17-05, 09:48 AM
All I see is endless trade possibilities to get Aaron Rowand. I wouldn't mind getting him, but I wouldn't want him to cost any high-level prospects. None.

Agreed. Rowand is good but not that good.

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 10:05 AM
Agreed. Rowand is good but not that good.
I think people tend to forget that certain players have different values for different teams. Rowand is not "that good" compared to what the WS feel is on the way in Brian Anderson. However, for the Yankees, Rowand should be worth 1 high-level prospect + a ML ready pitcher. A 28 year old center fielder with fantastic defense and above-average offense (not to mention a light price tag) is worth a Pavano/Wright + Duncan. This wouldn't be true for other teams, but certainly should be for the Yankees. New York would be filling a glaring hole with someone who can man the position effectively for at least another 5-6 years instead of waiting another 2-3 years hoping that Duncan will develop and wondering where to put him because Giambi and A-Rod will still be around. Just my opinion anyway.

gdn
11-17-05, 10:09 AM
I think people tend to forget that certain players have different values for different teams. Rowand is not "that good" compared to what the WS feel is on the way in Brian Anderson. However, for the Yankees, Rowand should be worth 1 high-level prospect + a ML ready pitcher. A 28 year old center fielder with fantastic defense and above-average offense (not to mention a light price tag) is worth a Pavano/Wright + Duncan. This wouldn't be true for other teams, but certainly should be for the Yankees. New York would be filling a glaring hole with someone who can man the position effectively for at least another 5-6 years instead of waiting another 2-3 years hoping that Duncan will develop and wondering where to put him because Giambi and A-Rod will still be around. Just my opinion anyway.

HUH? Pavano/Wright + Duncan? Do you know what Duncan's potential is? Or how fragile the state of our SP is?

Oh wait... it's a joke... :lol:

Sam18
11-17-05, 10:10 AM
I think people tend to forget that certain players have different values for different teams. Rowand is not "that good" compared to what the WS feel is on the way in Brian Anderson. However, for the Yankees, Rowand should be worth 1 high-level prospect + a ML ready pitcher. A 28 year old center fielder with fantastic defense and above-average offense (not to mention a light price tag) is worth a Pavano/Wright + Duncan. This wouldn't be true for other teams, but certainly should be for the Yankees. New York would be filling a glaring hole with someone who can man the position effectively for at least another 5-6 years instead of waiting another 2-3 years hoping that Duncan will develop and wondering where to put him because Giambi and A-Rod will still be around. Just my opinion anyway.

Rowand is nowhere near worth Pavano+Duncan. He's a great defender with an above average offense as you said but last year he had an awful year at the plate and he's not worth it.

Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 10:10 AM
how about this scenario:

If the White Sox lose Konerko to the Angels, the Angels lose Bengie Molina, and the Yankees can sign Ramon Hernandez, then:

Posada, Eric Duncan, and Scott Proctor to the Angels. Erstad, Donnelly, and a mid-level pitching prospect to the White Sox. Rowland and Marte to the Yankees....

The Angels will need a catcher and have the money for Posada, and Eric Duncan just had a good season in the Arizona league and played a little 1st base and of course can play 3rd - two positions the Angels will need to fill in the near future. Duncan's value and potential is probably the highest it's been and he'll be cheap for several years, which might offset Posada's ridiculous contract. Proctor somewhat offsets the loss of Donnelly. Erstad & Donnelly should both be expendable for this package.

The White Sox will need a 1st baseman with Konerko gone, and Erstad is a fine fielder and could contirbute nicely to their offense. Donnelly easily replaces Marte. who they are a bit sour on, from what I remember. They'll still want a big bat, but signing Thomas to DH might solve that issue - he is, after all, Mr.White Sox. Dealing Rowland enables them to get Brian Anderson into the lineup.The mid-level pitching prospect just sweetens the pot for the Sox.

The Yankees get a fine fielding young CFer and a good lefty reliever. Hernandez can plug the hole behind the plate nicely and Duncan just doesn't have a spot (except maybe 1B) in the near future. I'd rather give up Posada and Duncan than Sheffield, Cano, Chacon, or Wang.

Am I dreamimg? I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and make sure all three teams improve....go easy on me :)


You're idea is well thought out, but too many "ifs" would need to occur and they all rarely come to be.

gdn
11-17-05, 10:11 AM
I'd probably do Wright for Rowand.

Sam18
11-17-05, 10:12 AM
I'd probably do Wright for Rowand.

Rowand > Wright.

gdn
11-17-05, 10:14 AM
Rowand > Wright.

Fine. Wright + Parrish for Rowand. Happy?

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 10:14 AM
Fine. Wright + Parrish for Rowand. Happy?
Happy for us. Not happy for Ken Williams.

gdn
11-17-05, 10:17 AM
Happy for us. Not happy for Ken Williams.

So the point of this exercise is to make the opposing GM happy?

Well, Pavano + Duncan for Rowand will not make Cashman happy.

Heck, I wouldn't do Duncan for Rowand if I were Cashman. Not with so many OFs in the minors who will be ready in 2-3 years and the eventual decline of Giambi in those same 3 years by when Duncan will be ready to take over.

MTYankee23
11-17-05, 10:17 AM
It appears that the Yankees are going hard after Giles for a reason. I don't think its to play CF. If they're serious about cutting payroll, I don't think they'll sign him to make Sheffield DH. In my mind, they're going after Giles so they can trade Sheffield for a CF and potential bullpen help. Assuming Giles is signed, would a 3 way deal that netted us a guy like Rowand and a solid middle reliever be all that bad? Remember Sheff's OPS has dropped in each of the past 3 years.

DJ27
11-17-05, 10:21 AM
It appears that the Yankees are going hard after Giles for a reason. I don't think its to play CF. If they're serious about cutting payroll, I don't think they'll sign him to make Sheffield DH. In my mind, they're going after Giles so they can trade Sheffield for a CF and potential bullpen help. Assuming Giles is signed, would a 3 way deal that netted us a guy like Rowand and a solid middle reliever be all that bad? Remember Sheff's OPS has dropped in each of the past 3 years.

I love Sheff but dealing him for our CF does make sense (as long as we get Giles signed). And, I would do the Rowand/Marte for Sheff deal that has been brought up in other posts once we get Giles signed.

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 10:26 AM
So the point of this exercise is to make the opposing GM happy?

Well, Pavano + Duncan for Rowand will not make Cashman happy.

Heck, I wouldn't do Duncan for Rowand if I were Cashman. Not with so many OFs in the minors who will be ready in 2-3 years and the eventual decline of Giambi in those same 3 years by when Duncan will be ready to take over.
I don't give a crap what the opposing GM thinks. Just for conversation's sake, your signature says that you would trade Duncan for a "young stud pitcher." Like who? Maybe Scott Kazmir? Dontrelle Willis? Ben Sheets? You think one of them would be more valuable to the Yankees in the next 4 years (compared to the pitchers we currently have and could obtain through free agency in the coming off-seasons) than Aaron Rowand (compared in the same way)? And trust me, I know how damn good Duncan will probably be, but my opinion still stands that the hardest position to fill for the next 5 years will be CF (don't mention Melky ... he's not going to be good). And to find someone who is projected to hit constantly around .285 with a +24 UZR glove fill that need will be more difficult than to find a young SP corps and a hot-swinging first baseman.

destro
11-17-05, 10:28 AM
I don't give a crap what the opposing GM thinks. Just for conversation's sake, your signature says that you would trade Duncan for a "young stud pitcher." Like who? Maybe Scott Kazmir? Dontrelle Willis? Ben Sheets? You think one of them would be more valuable to the Yankees in the next 4 years (compared to the pitchers we currently have and could obtain through free agency in the coming off-seasons) than Aaron Rowand (compared in the same way)? And trust me, I know how damn good Duncan will probably be, but my opinion still stands that the hardest position to fill for the next 5 years will be CF (don't mention Melky ... he's not going to be good). And to find someone who is projected to hit constantly around .285 with a +24 UZR glove fill that need will be more difficult than to find a young SP corps and a hot-swinging first baseman.


Maybe he means a pitcher that looks good in assless leather chaps?

Dr. Gonzo
11-17-05, 10:28 AM
I think people tend to forget that certain players have different values for different teams. Rowand is not "that good" compared to what the WS feel is on the way in Brian Anderson. However, for the Yankees, Rowand should be worth 1 high-level prospect + a ML ready pitcher. A 28 year old center fielder with fantastic defense and above-average offense (not to mention a light price tag) is worth a Pavano/Wright + Duncan. This wouldn't be true for other teams, but certainly should be for the Yankees. New York would be filling a glaring hole with someone who can man the position effectively for at least another 5-6 years instead of waiting another 2-3 years hoping that Duncan will develop and wondering where to put him because Giambi and A-Rod will still be around. Just my opinion anyway.
Its a good thing you are not a GM. Rowand is not that amazing of a player, he strung together some good months and made a year out of it. He is not worth pavano alone, never the less duncan. I don't even think he is worth wright straight up, but I would do that.

Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 10:32 AM
Its a good thing you are not a GM. Rowand is not that amazing of a player, he strung together some good months and made a year out of it. He is not worth pavano alone, never the less duncan. I don't even think he is worth wright straight up, but I would do that.

IF a deal for Rowand ever happens it's going to be interesting to see the reactions on this board, because there certainly are wide range opinions of his worth.

vin777b
11-17-05, 10:34 AM
do those on this board feel it is fair to compare Aaron Rowland and Mark Kotsay? Especially, pertaining to defense?

gdn
11-17-05, 10:34 AM
I don't give a crap what the opposing GM thinks. Just for conversation's sake, your signature says that you would trade Duncan for a "young stud pitcher." Like who? Maybe Scott Kazmir? Dontrelle Willis? Ben Sheets? You think one of them would be more valuable to the Yankees in the next 4 years (compared to the pitchers we currently have and could obtain through free agency in the coming off-seasons) than Aaron Rowand (compared in the same way)? And trust me, I know how damn good Duncan will probably be, but my opinion still stands that the hardest position to fill for the next 5 years will be CF (don't mention Melky ... he's not going to be good). And to find someone who is projected to hit constantly around .285 with a +24 UZR glove fill that need will be more difficult than to find a young SP corps and a hot-swinging first baseman.


Happy for us. Not happy for Ken Williams.

You kinda just contradicted yourself there. Yes, I would trade Eric Duncan for Scott Kazmir/Dontrelle Willis. Aaron Rowand? Hardly.

How do you know Melky isn't going to be that good? Based on the 20ABs he had this past year when he was obviously rushed? Have you heard/read the reports on Melky? Have you heard anything about Tabata/Gardner/Jackson/Battle/Poterson? To top it off, you want to give up Pavano too?

Zero sense. Zero.

Kulish29
11-17-05, 10:35 AM
do those on this board feel it is fair to compare Aaron Rowland and Mark Kotsay? Especially, pertaining to defense?

The defensive stats say Rowand was better than Kotsay last year.

vin777b
11-17-05, 10:42 AM
The defensive stats say Rowand was better than Kotsay last year.



as does my naked eye. Thank you for the confirmation.

destro
11-17-05, 10:48 AM
do those on this board feel it is fair to compare Aaron Rowland and Mark Kotsay? Especially, pertaining to defense?


Who is Aaron Rowland?

NelsonMuntz
11-17-05, 10:49 AM
It appears that the Yankees are going hard after Giles for a reason. I don't think its to play CF. If they're serious about cutting payroll, I don't think they'll sign him to make Sheffield DH. In my mind, they're going after Giles so they can trade Sheffield for a CF and potential bullpen help. Assuming Giles is signed, would a 3 way deal that netted us a guy like Rowand and a solid middle reliever be all that bad? Remember Sheff's OPS has dropped in each of the past 3 years.
And then who is the DH in that scenario? To me it makes perfect sense to sign Giles to play a corner outfield position opposite Matsui, still pursue a better defensive CF option and let Sheff DH. Sheff's OPS may have declined the past three years but he was still the best hitter on the team last season.

parkerstrong
11-17-05, 10:50 AM
I would love to see Rowand here. It depends on who we give up.

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 11:14 AM
Shawn Chacon and Wang should be staples in the Yankee rotation for years to come.

Both are young enough and good enough to be .550 - .600 pitchers for the next 5-8 years. And for all the Vazquez/Weaver/Pavano, etc. who have failed here, these 2 seem unflappable in NY and in the postseason. Both are quiet guys who are consistent on the mound.

Hard to find a player worth THAT....and Rowand aint him.

That being said, Rowand would be great for this team. I would prefer Wilkerson, but after that I think Rowand would be my 2nd choice.



Chacon is a fly ball pitcher w/ a low K rate who had an excellent 2nd half. Wang, on the other hand, has a low K rate as well but is a groundball pitcher that throws in the mid 90's. I'm not saying Chacon won't be a good pitcher for us in the future, he may very well be a staple in the 3-5 slots. But if I can trade Chacon (maybe to a middle team who in turn sends players/prospects to the White Sox) for Rowand, I'd do it in a second.

BroadwayBomber55
11-17-05, 11:25 AM
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute.

Who will be the three teams involved if this happens? I know it will be the Yankees and the White Sox, but who is the third team.

gold23
11-17-05, 11:25 AM
I kind of believe Chacon is going to remain a valuable pitcher. He'll never been an ace, or even a very good #2. But...he's always had talent. And he's always pitched in Colorado.

Forget his road stats there, too. Every pitcher in Colorado tells you that the altitude takes so much out of you physically that you are affected in subsequent starts- whether home or road.

I don't want to say I wouldn't trade CHacon.....but I wouldn't do it in this type of deal. First, it would take more than Chacon to net Rowand. Right there I stop. Secondly, it would certainly involve a third team since the Chisox wouldn't have much need for CHacon.

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 11:28 AM
It appears that the Yankees are going hard after Giles for a reason. I don't think its to play CF. If they're serious about cutting payroll, I don't think they'll sign him to make Sheffield DH. In my mind, they're going after Giles so they can trade Sheffield for a CF and potential bullpen help. Assuming Giles is signed, would a 3 way deal that netted us a guy like Rowand and a solid middle reliever be all that bad? Remember Sheff's OPS has dropped in each of the past 3 years.

I agree, though Sheff's complaining won't help. I would use Sheff to net a CF and a catcher or an arm for the bullpen. And I don't want Demaso Marte. He was contemplating retirement last year and also walked the ballpark.

ICEBERG18
11-17-05, 11:29 AM
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute.

Who will be the three teams involved if this happens? I know it will be the Yankees and the White Sox, but who is the third team.


It was just speculation. Know one knows if it's even true.

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 11:30 AM
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute.

Who will be the three teams involved if this happens? I know it will be the Yankees and the White Sox, but who is the third team.

Don't know. There are probably several teams that like Chacon. See what fits.

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 11:34 AM
First, it would take more than Chacon to net Rowand. Right there I stop. Secondly, it would certainly involve a third team since the Chisox wouldn't have much need for CHacon.


The values of Chacon and Rowand are about equal.

Sam18
11-17-05, 11:41 AM
Fine. Wright + Parrish for Rowand. Happy?

YES!!! Oh God yes!!!

gold23
11-17-05, 11:42 AM
The values of Chacon and Rowand are about equal.


Not in baseball circles, they aren't. They are not going to value a pitcher who pitched well for 3 months above a young and already successful CF. Rowand has been highly regarded since the day he was drafted in the first round, and the Chisox resisted dealing him a bunch of times.

They have a replacement, which is why he may be available. But not for Shawn Chacon. And I can't see any other team valuing Chacon at that level. Way too risky that it was a hot streak.

From the Yankee standpoint, it creates a pretty big void. Chacon is realistically the only pitcher that will enter '06 without a lingering injury question. Russian roulette.

BJG
11-17-05, 11:45 AM
Not in baseball circles, they aren't. They are not going to value a pitcher who pitched well for 3 months above a young and already successful CF. Rowand has been highly regarded since the day he was drafted in the first round, and the Chisox resisted dealing him a bunch of times.

They have a replacement, which is why he may be available. But not for Shawn Chacon. And I can't see any other team valuing Chacon at that level. Way too risky that it was a hot streak.

From the Yankee standpoint, it creates a pretty big void. Chacon is realistically the only pitcher that will enter '06 without a lingering injury question. Russian roulette.

Chacon's value preceeds his time in NY last season. If I recall, his name was on the list of top flight pitchers that came up in the Randy Johnson trade last year.

yankswn23
11-17-05, 11:51 AM
Im not from chicago but i did see him play a lot. He is great with the glove but he is not the Torre Hunter(in his prime) that people think we are getting. He is overrated by some of us because he played amazing defense against us, hes not going to be doing what he did in Yankee Stadium last year(I was at all 3 games), every night. He is a great fielder but not an elite fielder imo.

I dont have a problem with his play, he is exactly what we need, but who we give up is important too and I dont think he is worth sheff(the guy who i think will be traded)
He will get to alot of balls that bernie wouldnt have, he has a great jump and reads the ball very well off the bat, that is why he is able to get to hits that would normally be doubles.

Dr. Gonzo
11-17-05, 12:34 PM
IF a deal for Rowand ever happens it's going to be interesting to see the reactions on this board, because there certainly are wide range opinions of his worth.
I don't want to see the yanks over pay as they lust for someone like we did with johnson.

Rowand is a nice player, but he is not a long term solution, and that is the way some people sound here.

I wish people could differentiate the player from the great series he had against us.

mbn007
11-17-05, 12:37 PM
You kinda just contradicted yourself there. Yes, I would trade Eric Duncan for Scott Kazmir/Dontrelle Willis. Aaron Rowand? Hardly.

How do you know Melky isn't going to be that good? Based on the 20ABs he had this past year when he was obviously rushed? Have you heard/read the reports on Melky? Have you heard anything about Tabata/Gardner/Jackson/Battle/Poterson? To top it off, you want to give up Pavano too?

Zero sense. Zero.

He has no clue about Melky. I guess in his opinion, unless you come up and hit .400 immediately, you are never going to be good.

Does he even realize that 2005 was Meelky's first season inAA? That Melky was 20 in 2005?

He has no clue.

gdn
11-17-05, 12:38 PM
YES!!! Oh God yes!!!

Put DOWN the lightsaber boy.

gdn
11-17-05, 12:39 PM
He has no clue about Melky. I guess in his opinion, unless you come up and hit .400 immediately, you are never going to be good.

Does he even realize that 2005 was Meelky's first season inAA? That Melky was 20 in 2005?

He has no clue.

Yep. I see he hasn't responded to my post. Oh, well. The point again, is that we cannot evaluate this until we know who has been proposed in exchange for Rowand. Also, it makes no sense to give up a #3, #4 pitcher AND your best hitting prospect for a slightly above average CF who will outgrow his value in 2 years.

mbn007
11-17-05, 12:43 PM
Rowand is a superb defensive player. Not elite, like Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds, or a young Griffey Jr., but a superb CF. He would do well in the Yankee lineup. His offense is OK. Nothing spectacular, but OK. He can play here, and would be a valuble addition.

But I am not trading Wang or Chacon, or Cano, or Duncan for him. I would consider Mekly, but only if it was even up for him. The theory being that Rowand and Melky would be at the same position. But even then, I probably do not do this. I do think Melky will be a 20+ HR hitter, with excellent gap power. Sort of like Matsui (offensively) has been the past few years, but less of a pull hitter. And therefore, I would be reluctant to trade him for Rowand.

Fabien Brandy
11-17-05, 12:44 PM
Rowand is a solid player but his RF/9 this year was slightly below average and his 93 OPS+ isn't a big drop from his career number (103).

Do you give up major prospects or a very solid starting pitcher for an average-ish hitting/fielding CFer who strikes out a lot and doesn't walk?

gdn
11-17-05, 12:45 PM
Rowand is a superb defensive player. Not elite, like Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds, or a young Griffey Jr., but a superb CF. He would do well in the Yankee lineup. His offense is OK. Nothing spectacular, but OK. He can play here, and would be a valuble addition.

But I am not trading Wang or Chacon, or Cano, or Duncan for him. I would consider Mekly, but only if it was even up for him. The theory being that Rowand and Melky would be at the same position. But I do think Melky will be a 20+ HR hitter, with excellent gap power. Sort of like Matsui (offensively) has been the past few years, but less of a pull hitter.

If Melky develops properly (read as "NOT RUSHED"), then he could hit above .300. He has a chance to be the next long-time Yankee CF, a la Bernie.

gold23
11-17-05, 12:46 PM
Chacon's value preceeds his time in NY last season. If I recall, his name was on the list of top flight pitchers that came up in the Randy Johnson trade last year.


He's always had value. Much more so a few years back, when his velocity was curiously a few MPH higher. My point is that his value is not, and has never been, as high as Rowand's.

Rowand was a premium prospect who has developed into a solid major league CF at a relatively young age. He still has some upside as well. Chacon is a good, not great, arm who got out of Colorado (where his stats weren't that bad, anyway) and performed well under the hot lights. I like CHacon a lot, but I don't think his value is equal to Rowand's.

Yanks got him for very little at the deadline, and even though his value has increased much since then, it hasn't increased to the level of Rowand quite yet.

gdn
11-17-05, 12:49 PM
He's always had value. Much more so a few years back, when his velocity was curiously a few MPH higher. My point is that his value is not, and has never been, as high as Rowand's.

Rowand was a premium prospect who has developed into a solid major league CF at a relatively young age. He still has some upside as well. Chacon is a good, not great, arm who got out of Colorado (where his stats weren't that bad, anyway) and performed well under the hot lights. I like CHacon a lot, but I don't think his value is equal to Rowand's.

Yanks got him for very little at the deadline, and even though his value has increased much since then, it hasn't increased to the level of Rowand quite yet.

Chacon's value has to be measured in more than just his stats. Look at the other marquee young pitchers that came to NYC and failed. Weaver, Vazquez come to mind immediately. Chacon showed that he had the intestinal fortitude to handle the pressure. We NEED pitchers like him. No more Browns, Pavanos (if the rumors are true). We cannot be giving up pitchers who have performed exceptionally under the bright lights of the Yankee Stadium stage.

gold23
11-17-05, 12:49 PM
As for Duncan, I wouldn't do it. It would be like gambling on red or black in roulette. Chance that is a fabulous deal, chance that it is a poor deal.

Rowand is unlikely to develop into a true star- he should be a very consistent and solid all around CF. An asset, to be sure. Duncan? He could be anything. I could see him failing to become a good ML hitter (I am pretty confident he will be a major leaguer), and throwing out a .240-25-80 type of average year. But I could also see him becoming Troy Glaus.

mbn007
11-17-05, 12:49 PM
If Melky develops properly (read as "NOT RUSHED"), then he could hit above .300. He has a chance to be the next long-time Yankee CF, a la Bernie.
Hence, my reluctance to deal him.

I think Duncan will be a big time power bat, although not a high average hitter. Sort of a walk machine, but a .260-.280 hitter. His OBP should puch .380+ every year, as he will get his share of walks. Eric, is one guy, along with Hughes, who I probably do not trade, unless it's for a young stud. And I mean both young and stud.

gold23
11-17-05, 12:50 PM
Chacon's value has to be measured in more than just his stats. Look at the other marquee young pitchers that came to NYC and failed. Weaver, Vazquez come to mind immediately. Chacon showed that he had the intestinal fortitude to handle the pressure. We NEED pitchers like him. No more Browns, Pavanos (if the rumors are true). We cannot be giving up pitchers who have performed exceptionally under the bright lights of the Yankee Stadium stage.


I fully agree with you. 100%. I never mentioned I would deal Chacon for Rowand. I wouldn't as a Yankee fan, since you lose your one non-health risk in the rotation, and the most consistent starter you had down the stretch and in the playoffs. I was simply stating that his VALUE on the trade market was less than Rowand's. Not necessarily his value to the Yanks.

gdn
11-17-05, 12:54 PM
Hence, my reluctance to deal him.

I think Duncan will be a big time power bat, although not a high average hitter. Sort of a walk machine, but a .260-.280 hitter. His OBP should puch .380+ every year, as he will get his share of walks. Eric, is one guy, along with Hughes, who I probably do not trade, unless it's for a young stud. And I mean both young and stud.

Exactly. Melky, however, can be had for the right price. The right price would have to involve stud and young.

gdn
11-17-05, 12:55 PM
I fully agree with you. 100%. I never mentioned I would deal Chacon for Rowand. I wouldn't as a Yankee fan, since you lose your one non-health risk in the rotation, and the most consistent starter you had down the stretch and in the playoffs. I was simply stating that his VALUE on the trade market was less than Rowand's. Not necessarily his value to the Yanks.

I can understand that argument. However, we have to assess everything from the Yanks perspective and analyze their values. I think Chacon is far more important to the Yanks than Rowand is.

wileedog
11-17-05, 12:59 PM
If Melky develops properly (read as "NOT RUSHED"), then he could hit above .300. He has a chance to be the next long-time Yankee CF, a la Bernie.

Melky will be a 4th OFer IMO at best. I don't think he has the wheels for CF or the power for a corner OFer.

Time will tell.

gdn
11-17-05, 01:02 PM
Melky will be a 4th OFer IMO at best. I don't think he has the wheels for CF or the power for a corner OFer.

Time will tell.

What are you basing this opinion on?

wileedog
11-17-05, 01:17 PM
What are you basing this opinion on?

Stats, scouting reports and my own two eyeballs.

Like I said, its my own opinion, so take it for what its worth. But he got terrible jumps on flyballs in his short stint with us, and unlike Younger Bernie doesn't have the extra gear to make up for them. He looked severely overmatched in CF, and unlike hitting I don't think that's something that will greatly improve with more experience.

He would probably make a good RFer defensively, but his power numbers and walk totals aren't anything to get that excited about. I realize he's only going to be 21 and those numbers should improve, but looking at his career to date nothing here shouts out "stud". He may never develop enough power to be a starting RFer in this league, certainly not for the Yankees.

I think he's over-rated by a lot of people, quite frankly, because he's "toolsy".

I hope I'm wrong. Like I said we'll see.

Jasbro
11-17-05, 01:21 PM
Stats, scouting reports and my own two eyeballs.

Like I said, its my own opinion, so take it for what its worth. But he got terrible jumps on flyballs in his short stint with us, and unlike Younger Bernie doesn't have the extra gear to make up for them. He looked severely overmatched in CF, and unlike hitting I don't think that's something that will greatly improve with more experience.

He would probably make a good RFer defensively, but his power numbers and walk totals aren't anything to get that excited about. I realize he's only going to be 21 and those numbers should improve, but looking at his career to date nothing here shouts out "stud". He may never develop enough power to be a starting RFer in this league, certainly not for the Yankees.

I think he's over-rated by a lot of people, quite frankly, because he's "toolsy".

I hope I'm wrong. Like I said we'll see.

I tend to agree with you. As enticing as it may be to want to get on the "Got Melky?" bandwagon, it appears so far that the best tool he possesses is his youth.

He needs much, much more time IMHO to get anywhere near to being MLB-ready.

gdn
11-17-05, 01:29 PM
Stats, scouting reports and my own two eyeballs.

Like I said, its my own opinion, so take it for what its worth. But he got terrible jumps on flyballs in his short stint with us, and unlike Younger Bernie doesn't have the extra gear to make up for them. He looked severely overmatched in CF, and unlike hitting I don't think that's something that will greatly improve with more experience.

He would probably make a good RFer defensively, but his power numbers and walk totals aren't anything to get that excited about. I realize he's only going to be 21 and those numbers should improve, but looking at his career to date nothing here shouts out "stud". He may never develop enough power to be a starting RFer in this league, certainly not for the Yankees.

I think he's over-rated by a lot of people, quite frankly, because he's "toolsy".

I hope I'm wrong. Like I said we'll see.

I hope so too and I think you are, too. I haven't personally seen him play, besides the few games in the bigs (and i'm putting ZERO stock in that), but from what I've read, heard and seen, he seems like he will be a better corner OF than a CF (not that he'll be a bad CF). His bat on the other hand, has tremendous potential and he needs to develop. He was tearing the cover off the ball in AA/AAA before being promoted. Look at those stats. He needs to regroup and he will be just fine.

Crusadecat
11-17-05, 01:32 PM
If the Yankees give up Sheff and have Giles with a short term deal it sounds like an upgrade for the Yanks. Basically Rowand and Giles for Sheffield and hopefully nothing else of real value.

wileedog
11-17-05, 01:45 PM
I hope so too and I think you are, too. I haven't personally seen him play, besides the few games in the bigs (and i'm putting ZERO stock in that), but from what I've read, heard and seen, he seems like he will be a better corner OF than a CF (not that he'll be a bad CF).
That was the common wisdom before he came up.

I would never make an offensive judgement on a player based on 6 games, especially a 20 year old, but I think you *can* get a read on a player defensively in that time, and I was thoroughly unimpressed with his CF play. He might be better than he showed (heck, probably is), but unless he's a LOT better I don't think he's CF material.



His bat on the other hand, has tremendous potential and he needs to develop. He was tearing the cover off the ball in AA/AAA before being promoted. Look at those stats. He needs to regroup and he will be just fine.

He had one 42 game stretch in A ball at the end of 2004 when he "tore the cover off the ball". He followed it with an OK year for a 20 year old in AA, but the .322 OPB and .411 SLG was very disconcerting, and granted he never should have been promoted above that.

Its early and he's very young, so I'm not writing him off. Just don't see 1 good stretch in A ball as something to get overally excited about, and as I said before I'm definitely not sold on his defense.

rivera,s cutter
11-17-05, 02:29 PM
i hope cashman pulls this off

ChrisV82
11-17-05, 02:34 PM
It all depends on who we are giving up.

If it means not getting 35 year old Brian Giles, I would be willing to part with something good.

JeterRodriguezSheff
11-17-05, 02:53 PM
It may take Shawn Chacon to get Rowand. I would do it.

if thats all it takes id do it in a heart beat

YankClipper5
11-17-05, 02:55 PM
If it means not getting 35 year old Brian Giles, I would be willing to part with something good.

I agree, statistically Giles is a stud but I think he is using us to drive up his price for one. For two, he would be switching leagues, and thirdly he is getting into his decline years. This move, while not awful, is not something that is moving us forward. I wouldn't mind parting with Sheff, as much as I love him, but he has much more value than Rowand and his bat is not easily replaced by an untested in the big market Rowand who would be switching to the AL. Too much of a gamble, if Sheff goes, we better be getting a young stud CF a la Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones. While I know we will need to part with more than Sheff to acquire those, the foundation is there. Maybe Sheff and Pavano with a prospect or 2 for one of the premier CFs. Even Posada I would be OK to part with to get a top caliber CF in return.

I Love Wang
11-17-05, 02:56 PM
For two, he would be switching leagues, and thirdly he is changing leagues.

Don't forget, he's also going to the other league.

bradhamilton
11-17-05, 03:10 PM
I love this thread most everybody is convinced that we have given up too much to get Rowand, and not one poster has speculated who the third team will be. Yet the title of the thread is 3 team deal.

Is Cincinatti involved with Griffey going to the Sox, and the Yankees give monetary relief, without giving up to much, like maybe Wright to the Reds, money to the White Sox.
Stuff like that. What other team could get involved?
Yankees take on some other teams bad contracts to get it done.
Perez from the Dodgers
any other ideas on how the third team is involved?

DJ27
11-17-05, 03:14 PM
I love this thread most everybody is convinced that we have given up too much to get Rowand, and not one poster has speculated who the third team will be. Yet the title of the thread is 3 team deal.

Is Cincinatti involved with Griffey going to the Sox, and the Yankees give monetary relief, without giving up to much, like maybe Wright to the Reds, money to the White Sox.
Stuff like that. What other team could get involved?
Yankees take on some other teams bad contracts to get it done.
Perez from the Dodgers
any other ideas on how the third team is involved?

Not sure, but I like the Wright and $ idea eventually turning into Rowand!! :D

AMYanks
11-17-05, 04:01 PM
Don't forget, he's also going to the other league.

:lol: :lol:

JMAN74
11-17-05, 04:35 PM
I'd probably do Wright for Rowand.


Id do that in a heartbeat and pick up 50% of his salary if we had to. Im not high on Wright at all. He has 'Mazzone reclaimation project that fails everywhere else' written all over him. Weve had enough of those types already.

Almost any other SP Pavano,Chacon, Wang is ridiculous too give up for Rowand and believe me the Yanks wont do it.

YankClipper5
11-17-05, 04:47 PM
Don't forget, he's also going to the other league.

oops! I fixed and put what I meant to say.

mhmajp
11-17-05, 04:54 PM
Realisticly (without knowing about their prospects), all they need this off season is to replace Konerko's bat (no small task). Why would they deal a productive player like Rowand who is signed for cheap to accomplish that (unless they have a great CF waiting in the wings).

They have a great CF waiting in the wings.

BronxBaumer
11-17-05, 04:56 PM
Which means they want Sheff to replace Knoerko's bat...

Sam18
11-17-05, 05:09 PM
If it means not getting 35 year old Brian Giles, I would be willing to part with something good.

So you'd give up a top prospect if it means not signing Giles?

ChrisV82
11-17-05, 05:43 PM
So you'd give up a top prospect if it means not signing Giles?

Sure. Prospects aren't guaranteed to succeed, and I'd rather have a 29 year old CF than a 35 year old one. We could lose out on the deal, the guy could become great. On the other hand, he could sit in rot in our farm system like so many others. Or he could turn out to suck or even have problems (i.e. Nick Johnson's various injury issues). There's too many variables. If the Mets rumored to be willing to give up one of their top 3 prospects to get Manny, I don't see why the Yankees can't give up a top minor leaguer to acquire one of the best young defensive outfielders in the game. It's not like Rowan sucks.

Kulish29
11-17-05, 06:08 PM
Rowand people. It's Aaron Rowand.

That is all. :)

Sam18
11-17-05, 06:46 PM
Sure. Prospects aren't guaranteed to succeed, and I'd rather have a 29 year old CF than a 35 year old one. We could lose out on the deal, the guy could become great. On the other hand, he could sit in rot in our farm system like so many others. Or he could turn out to suck or even have problems (i.e. Nick Johnson's various injury issues). There's too many variables. If the Mets rumored to be willing to give up one of their top 3 prospects to get Manny, I don't see why the Yankees can't give up a top minor leaguer to acquire one of the best young defensive outfielders in the game. It's not like Rowan sucks.

1. Giles won't be playing CF if signed.
2. Not holding onto prospects is one of the reasons why we have an enormous payroll and nowhere near the talent to show for it.
3. Giles is one of the best hitters in baseball and his skills won't decline as rapidly as others because his hitting depends alot on walks.
4. Giles is not an injury prone player.
5. Giles will be a three year stop gap solution so our minor league outfielders can get ready.
6. The mets are a stupid organization. We should do the opposite of what they do.
7. Rowand may not suck but he's not as good as he's hyped up to be(I worry about his offense). And he's certainly not worth one of our top prospects.

Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 06:51 PM
Rowand people. It's Aaron Rowand.

That is all. :)

Then are Rowland and/or Rowan somehow involved from the as yet to be determined third team??!!

:giveup:

Yankeeah
11-17-05, 06:52 PM
Rowands offense may not be great, but our CF hasn't had good offense in a few years, and we've done ok. When we get our CF, we need to considering defense ahead of offense.

Rowand is a good player, but not worth too much.

Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 07:04 PM
Rowands offense may not be great, but our CF hasn't had good offense in a few years, and we've done ok. When we get our CF, we need to considering defense ahead of offense.

Rowand is a good player, but not worth too much.

I think you're right on the money about the offense and defense. While I too hope the Yanks don't overpay, I think Rowand's fit for this team's defensive needs given it's other offensive weapons makes him a better then "good" player for the Yankees.

Sam18
11-17-05, 07:25 PM
Rowands offense may not be great, but our CF hasn't had good offense in a few years, and we've done ok. When we get our CF, we need to considering defense ahead of offense.

Rowand is a good player, but not worth too much.

Its not about just defense though. Its about which player gives your team the most runs overall, Giles or Rowand? Obviously its Giles.

Yankeeah
11-17-05, 07:29 PM
Its not about just defense though. Its about which player gives your team the most runs overall, Giles or Rowand? Obviously its Giles.

But then you have to say whos going to save the most, Rowand would save more, while Giles would create more. In my opinion, while it would be luxury, the defense is more important.
It all depends on what we have to give up in order to get Rowand. I won't be for or against the trade until I see names.

Sam18
11-17-05, 07:34 PM
But then you have to say whos going to save the most, Rowand would save more, while Giles would create more. In my opinion, while it would be luxury, the defense is more important.
It all depends on what we have to give up in order to get Rowand. I won't be for or against the trade until I see names.

You didn't get what I said. Giles(defense and offense) is worth more runs than Rowand(defense and offense).

Yankeeah
11-17-05, 07:38 PM
You didn't get what I said. Giles(defense and offense) is worth more runs than Rowand(defense and offense).

Ok, my bad. But then who plays center?
Giles, im curious about. Does he actually want to play here, or would he just want the money?

SINCE77 2
11-17-05, 07:39 PM
You didn't get what I said. Giles(defense and offense) is worth more runs than Rowand(defense and offense).

What do you realistically expect Giles to do in Pinstripes? Give me an honest projection.