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RhodyYanksFan
12-06-05, 10:51 AM
I think he's saying that in Nomar's case, there won't be the "alpha dog" battle than many expected when ARod came to town. Nomar knows that at this point in his career, he needs to be a role player, get the job done, and hopefully get himself back on track.

The more I think about it, the more i'd like the Yankees to take a shot at him.

Bingo. That's what I meant.

nojoke
12-06-05, 11:08 AM
At NJ.com, (article was Yankees to pass on Bernie, possibly sign Nomar or something like that) and Nomar was a thought to sign as a utility player, not for a set position.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 11:13 AM
Steve Phillips is reporting that Nomar wants an everyday job (even if it's with a horrible team) over the Yankees.

ojo
12-06-05, 11:16 AM
I think he's saying that in Nomar's case, there won't be the "alpha dog" battle than many expected when ARod came to town. Nomar knows that at this point in his career, he needs to be a role player, get the job done, and hopefully get himself back on track.

The more I think about it, the more i'd like the Yankees to take a shot at him.


Bingo. That's what I meant.

gotcha. thanks!

Yanks Lifer
12-06-05, 11:26 AM
Steve Phillips on ESPN's Mike and Mike:

"Nomar will not go to the Yankees"

This is the same Steve Phillips who is currently batting .143 (2-14) in his ESPN predictions of where the top 50 free agents will sign. Oh yea, it should be noted that in one of those 2 Phillips went out on a limb to say that Kenji Johjima would sign with Seattle. I'd say it's a good shot Nomar becomes a Yank!

IronCaballo4
12-06-05, 11:42 AM
If he signs with the Pirates, will he be called NomARRRRRR? ;)

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 11:55 AM
If he signs with the Pirates, will he be called NomARRRRRR? ;)
HA! That gave me a good laugh.

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 11:57 AM
If he signs with the Pirates, will he be called NomARRRRRR? ;)
priceless!

38Special
12-06-05, 11:57 AM
We must have a player on the DL at all times. Nomar will help accomplish that

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 11:58 AM
maybe we should put a wig on tony womack and have been splash around in the hudson river. that way, nomar can jump in, save him/her/it, and get some good new york publicity.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-06-05, 11:59 AM
This is the same Steve Phillips who is currently batting .143 (2-14) in his ESPN predictions of where the top 50 free agents will sign. Oh yea, it should be noted that in one of those 2 Phillips went out on a limb to say that Kenji Johjima would sign with Seattle. I'd say it's a good shot Nomar becomes a Yank!

Steve Phillips lost me as a source when he was calling for a firesale by the Yankees at the end of April last year (remember when he was screaming about trading off Matsui and Sheffield) and calling for the Yankees to pack it in and rebuild. He also said that Robinson Cano was a bearly passable major leaguer and a fringe prospect at the time he came up. Therefore his ability to read into what teams will do, as well as evaluate talent is questionable at best, and at worst he's so jaded from his Mets days against the Yankees that he can't be objective. In other words, he's perfect for ESPN.

nyctalopia
12-06-05, 12:04 PM
This is the same Steve Phillips who is currently batting .143 (2-14) in his ESPN predictions of where the top 50 free agents will sign. Oh yea, it should be noted that in one of those 2 Phillips went out on a limb to say that Kenji Johjima would sign with Seattle. I'd say it's a good shot Nomar becomes a Yank!
Coincidentally, .143 was the team batting average for his 2002 Mets.

ChrisV82
12-06-05, 03:13 PM
The idea of Nomar playing on the Yanks has been kicking around in my head more and more, but considering how fussy and sulky he became in Boston, why would that turn around in New York, especially with his injury problems?

ieddyi
12-06-05, 03:32 PM
The idea of Nomar playing on the Yanks has been kicking around in my head more and more, but considering how fussy and sulky he became in Boston, why would that turn around in New York, especially with his injury problems?


HE sulked because of his situation in Boston ( Arod, and passing on that 4/60M contract offer ). HE is in a position now where he is basically auditioning to rty and get one more nice contract. Emotionally, I don't see a problem here- he'd love to stick it to the sawx I'm sure

iceman24
12-06-05, 03:47 PM
I don't have a problem with nomar as a utility player and dh a few times a week. The guy can still hit just had a bad string of injuries. He can also play alot of positions around the infield and in the outfield. His bat and multiple positions should make him a big target for the yanks. I doubt he will come here but I think the yanks should make a serious attempt to land him.

ryanthe13th
12-06-05, 03:48 PM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051205&content_id=1276817&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

It would appear that Nomar is definitely fine with taking on the role of a utility player.

Mattpat11
12-06-05, 03:50 PM
HE sulked because of his situation in Boston I don't buy that. That team tried to (and basically did) humiliate Manny Ramirez. He didn't sulk on the bench.

Lord knows what's going to set Nomar off this year that would cause him to act in such an unprofessional manner.

ojo
12-06-05, 04:02 PM
I don't buy that. That team tried to (and basically did) humiliate Manny Ramirez. He didn't sulk on the bench.

Lord knows what's going to set Nomar off this year that would cause him to act in such an unprofessional manner.

oh come on. his professional identity was the leader of the boston red sox. that came undone as quickly as you've ever seen a player fall from (playing) grace. i mean, we're not talking rae carruth peeing in the trunk of a car, but still. he fell a long ways DURING that season.

sucked for him. i wouldn't though, hesitate for a second to add that athlete to the yankees' roster.

Mattpat11
12-06-05, 04:04 PM
oh come on. his professional identity was the leader of the boston red sox. that came undone as quickly as you've ever seen a player fall from (playing) grace. . Mainly because he reacted like a petulant child.

ojo
12-06-05, 04:07 PM
Mainly because he reacted like a petulant child.

well, i'm not going to defend the guy's actions, but suffice to say the media was taking shots at him (btw, boston's media? 42x harder to deal with than NY's) and his own front office had approached him about dealing him. could/should he have handled it differently? sure, why not?

but know this much - that trade 8 times out of 10 winds up being a disaster for boston. you just don't deal away talent like that and turn it into something special right away. they caught lightning without question.

nojoke
12-06-05, 04:08 PM
maybe we should put a wig on tony womack and have been splash around in the hudson river. that way, nomar can jump in, save him/her/it, and get some good new york publicity.
How you came up with that, I don't know. But it was worth a laugh

CelerinoSanchez
12-06-05, 04:10 PM
I don't have a problem with nomar as a utility player and dh a few times a week. The guy can still hit just had a bad string of injuries. He can also play alot of positions around the infield and in the outfield. His bat and multiple positions should make him a big target for the yanks. I doubt he will come here but I think the yanks should make a serious attempt to land him.


When has Garciaparra ever played the outfield? And when was the last time he played second base?

Mattpat11
12-06-05, 04:10 PM
well, i'm not going to defend the guy's actions, but suffice to say the media was taking shots at him (btw, boston's media? 42x harder to deal with than NY's) and his own front office had approached him about dealing him. . They did that and more with Manny.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 04:12 PM
I really like the idea of Nomar as a DH/Utility guy.

ojo
12-06-05, 04:13 PM
They did that and more with Manny.

non sequiter. manny's too aloof to know the difference.

hey, i'm not saying nomar's perfect. but who knows say how jeter would act if the team seemed to struggle as he led the team through the first half, then he goes down with an injury and the team suddenly picks it up without him....then to compound matters the team starts whispering to the press about how jete's a source of friction in the clubhouse and how the right trade may just come along....

you just don't know. but what we DO know is boston's famous for doing this to their own. garciaparra played into it, without question, but damn they've got that blueprint down.

Mattpat11
12-06-05, 04:14 PM
non sequiter. manny's too aloof to know the difference.

Yeah, Manny probably didn't know they were doing all that, but still. theres a chance he did.

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 04:15 PM
Q: Why is everyone on ESPN saying that there is no chance Nomar comes here?

:(

Mark19
12-06-05, 04:16 PM
Q: Why is everyone on ESPN saying that there is no chance Nomar comes here?

:(

Because conventional wisdom is that Nomar would rather start for the Pirates than be a super utility guy for the Yanks.

nojoke
12-06-05, 04:16 PM
well, i'm not going to defend the guy's actions, but suffice to say the media was taking shots at him (btw, boston's media? 42x harder to deal with than NY's) and his own front office had approached him about dealing him. could/should he have handled it differently? sure, why not?

but know this much - that trade 8 times out of 10 winds up being a disaster for boston. you just don't deal away talent like that and turn it into something special right away. they caught lightning without question.
Remember at that point they hadn't won a WS since 1918. Their media was very rough at that point

destro
12-06-05, 04:16 PM
Q: Why is everyone on ESPN saying that there is no chance Nomar comes here?

:(

i dunno, prolly cause espn hates the yankees

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 04:17 PM
Because conventional wisdom is that Nomar would rather start for the Pirates than be a super utility guy for the Yanks.
"no chance" is a pretty strong statement though

ojo
12-06-05, 04:17 PM
Yeah, Manny probably didn't know they were doing all that, but still. theres a chance he did.

oh he knew cuz he's not 'dumb'. it's just that manny doesn't let stuff like that affect him. which of course makes perfect sense cuz he's overly sensitive about his privacy.

go figure. there's no figuring manny.




Q: Why is everyone on ESPN saying that there is no chance Nomar comes here?

:(

probably cuz they all have to listen to peter gammons rail against the notion for hours on end.

nojoke
12-06-05, 04:27 PM
I hate Peter Gammons and his goofy smile when he talks about the Yanks...back to topic...

Mark19
12-06-05, 04:30 PM
I hate Peter Gammons and his goofy smile when he talks about the Yanks...back to topic...

he's probably just drunk

although my most amusing moment was when steve philips voice cracked

Espinosa's Glasses
12-06-05, 04:33 PM
No Chance?

Thats not what Phillips just said on the Dan Patrick show a little before 3 o'clock...

He said that he didn't think Nomar should go to the Yankees to be a utility player. He should play for the Pirates, Mariners, etc... to re-establish himself as an everyday player. If he was Nomar's agent... that is what he would tell him...
ESPN doesn't know jack shat...

ieddyi
12-06-05, 04:34 PM
I don't think he's changing his philosophy. Look at some of the names that the Yankees have been looking at: Giles, Michaels, Wilkerson, and even Bradley. These guys can all get on base, along with bringing some decent speed as well as other assets to the table. Couple this with the reports of them being interested in Pierre only as a one year stop gap solution, and I think it's fairly clear that Cashman values the ability to get on base as highly as ever.

I guess the part that got me most was "we don't need another 1B/dh type when we DON"T HAVE A DH"

StatenIslandYankee
12-06-05, 04:39 PM
No Chance?

Thats not what Phillips just said on the Dan Patrick show a little before 3 o'clock...

He said that he didn't think Nomar should go to the Yankees to be a utility player. He should play for the Pirates, Mariners, etc... to re-establish himself as an everyday player. If he was Nomar's agent... that is what he would tell him...
ESPN doesn't know jack shat...
This morning he said 'no chance' on mike and mike.

Espinosa's Glasses
12-06-05, 04:41 PM
This morning he said 'no chance' on mike and mike.

Ch..Ch...Ch... Changes!

ESPN is into that Bowie stuff...

JeterRodriguezSheff
12-06-05, 05:04 PM
**** Zito lets sign Nomar to pitch, sign Furcal to play second, trade Cano for rollins who would play center. Trade Sheff for Michael Young and a top short stop prospect(who we would later convert to pitcher), Trade Duncan and Henn for Peralta who would play first. Hughes for Carlos Guillen who would play right. Sign Alex Gonzalez to play left. Sign the other Gonzalez that is a short stop to catch. Eat Hideki Matsuis salary and trade him for Hanley Ramirez who would pitch. Call up CJ Henry and Marcos Vechianocci to also pitch. Trade for Bobby Crosby to be the number 5 man, get Cora to DH. Trade for Berroa, izturis, Lugo, Uribe and bring up escalona all for the pen. Then the roster would be:

c:Gonzalez
1b: Peralta
2b:Furcal
3b:Arod
ss:Jeter
LF:Gonzalez
CF:Rollins
RF:guillen
DH:Cora

SP:Nomar
SP:Ramirez
SP:Henry
SP:Vechionacci
SP:Crosby

Pen:Berroa, izturis, Lugo, Uribe escalona

rightfielder21
12-06-05, 06:10 PM
Whats that?

Yankees1962
12-06-05, 06:15 PM
I guess the part that got me most was "we don't need another 1B/dh type when we DON"T HAVE A DH"
Can't we get a guy to DH that can do more than just DH and play 1B? I for one would like to see a DH that can play play several positions in the field, thus giving you an opportunity to rest 2-3 different players every 10-12 games or so and then have them DH while that player plays their position.

ieddyi
12-06-05, 06:25 PM
Can't we get a guy to DH that can do more than just DH and play 1B? I for one would like to see a DH that can play play several positions in the field, thus giving you an opportunity to rest 2-3 different players every 10-12 games or so and then have them DH while that player plays their position.

Sure, someone like Nomar would be perfect. It's jsut that Cash seemed to be choosing between speed and power and taking speed in that is the wrong choice

Iknowcool
12-06-05, 07:21 PM
I doubt he will get that much pay. Only five or six teams are in the bidding for Garciaparra, depending on if you include the Yanks or not. My guess.. 2yrs/4 million, with the second year being an option.

Jersey Yankee
12-06-05, 08:57 PM
I doubt he will get that much pay. Only five or six teams are in the bidding for Garciaparra, depending on if you include the Yanks or not. My guess.. 2yrs/4 million, with the second year being an option.
I think he would likely get $3m or so a year, but I'd put a lot of incentives into that which means he gets paid much more if healthy.

If he stays healthy, makes the playoff team (given of course, that the Yanks do), has many ABs, I wouldn't mind having him.

I'd say he could cover 3B/SS/2B when guys are pooped. I wouldn't consider him in CF, but who knows.

Crosby18
12-06-05, 10:06 PM
I could care less wether he makes 2 millon or 5 million, i just would love to see him in Pinstripes. Whether it be as a DH, an OF, a UTIL, or even on the bench. He's a great hitter and is almost destined to succeed as a DH. If you don't play as much, the risk of injury goes down. SIGN HIM CASHMAN!!

Yankeeah
12-06-05, 10:07 PM
5 million as a bench player is a waste of money

Crosby18
12-06-05, 10:08 PM
5 million as a bench player is a waste of money

and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

MisterNovember
12-06-05, 10:09 PM
and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

How I wish we still had the ":rolleyes:" smiley...

JDPNYY
12-06-05, 10:10 PM
and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

Who is a choke artist?

Yankeeah
12-06-05, 10:10 PM
and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

Wow. Not only is that completly unrelated, but it isn't true. Check out how much Texas is paying of his contract. And I'm not getting into anything more than that.

AMYanks
12-06-05, 10:19 PM
and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

Nice attempt at a joke (if you could call it that), but the Yankees don't even pay him half of that.

YankeeStripes
12-06-05, 10:39 PM
more like 117 million for an mvp

ChrisV82
12-06-05, 10:40 PM
I would NEVER make a move just to stick it to Boston, but considering how beloved Nomar is in Boston STILL, that would be pretty amusing to get Garciaparra.

As for playing in Pittsburgh or Kansas City or wherever...the man might be a little desperate, but he has to have PRIDE. If he can get a one year deal with the Yanks as a utility player and contribute well, he will get HUGE offers from other teams in the offseason. Yeah he could reestablish himself in a place like Pittsburgh, but who voluntarily chooses purgatory over heaven?


EDIT: I was really into the CAPS in this post.

rightfielder21
12-06-05, 10:49 PM
and 252 million for a choke artist isn't?

You're gonna be fun (while you last)... :)

Dooley Womack
12-06-05, 10:49 PM
Garciaparra would be insurance (if healthy) to play many positions - even 1st base if no one is acquired and only Phillips and Giambi remain options at 1st. He's athletic enough to even give the OF a shot, a la Womack (only better I'd imagine).

WHat worries me most are the rumors that are swirling around him and if that's what's responsible for his sudden physical breakdown.

terminator
12-06-05, 10:49 PM
I would NEVER make a move just to stick it to Boston, but considering how beloved Nomar is in Boston STILL, that would be pretty amusing to get Garciaparra.

As for playing in Pittsburgh or Kansas City or wherever...the man might be a little desperate, but he has to have PRIDE. If he can get a one year deal with the Yanks as a utility player and contribute well, he will get HUGE offers from other teams in the offseason. Yeah he could reestablish himself in a place like Pittsburgh, but who voluntarily chooses purgatory over heaven?


EDIT: I was really into the CAPS in this post.

Seriously, if he is a utility player, what type of numbers would he be able to post?
And even if he does well as a utility player, what is the max contract he could expect to get the next year? In other words, is there precedent for a utility player getting a big contract after a good year?

I can see him accepting a role of DH - not likely, but possible. IMO, it would be a good move for the Yankees. But anyone who would advise Nomar to take a utility job with the Yankees over a starting job in even Alaska would be crazy. The only chance he has of re-establishing himself as an elite player is to get a starting job with a club.

If he accepts a utility role, Nomar might as well kiss any future big contracts good bye.

apolansk
12-06-05, 11:06 PM
Bet hes kicking himself for turning down that 4/60 mil contract.

Dooley Womack
12-06-05, 11:11 PM
Bet hes kicking himself for turning down that 4/60 mil contract.

Championship season aside he'd sure look better than Renteria or Lugo (as rumored) out there in 2006.

Brent
12-06-05, 11:20 PM
I doubt if we got him he would be much of a bench player. He would probably DH alot, and rotate around the infield or corner outfield spots now and then. I just dont see us getting him to pencil him in for 200 ABs.

keg411
12-06-05, 11:21 PM
I think by "utility player" they don't just mean backup.

He'd DH, play first when Giambi DH's, maybe play some RF to spell Sheff. He's probably not the answer for CF -- but could be an interesting jack-of-all trades type player. The key would be for him to stay healthy though.

It's probably a long shot to happen, but I think it would be an interesting possibility. Not my ideal at all, and it could be weird... but I wouldn't be opposed to a move like this.

terminator
12-06-05, 11:27 PM
Championship season aside he'd sure look better than Renteria or Lugo (as rumored) out there in 2006.

What can anyone predict about his health at this point?

Dooley Womack
12-06-05, 11:32 PM
What can anyone predict about his health at this point?

Nothing. That's the major issue with him. I should have qualified it with "if healthy" as I do most Nomar posts.

ChrisV82
12-07-05, 12:01 AM
Seriously, if he is a utility player, what type of numbers would he be able to post?
And even if he does well as a utility player, what is the max contract he could expect to get the next year? In other words, is there precedent for a utility player getting a big contract after a good year?

See, though, he's not just a utility player, he's a former Rookie of the Year who has led the AL in batting average on more than one occassion. He'll be 33 at the end of next season, and if he proves he can play semi-regularly as a back up and DH, I bet a team looking to contend will be willing to give him a contract. I admit I could be wrong, but in his situation it might be better to end up with a 1 year contract in NY than a 3 or 4 year deal in Pitt, presuming he feels he can be healthy for a change.

YankeeStripes
12-07-05, 12:03 AM
anyone have updates?

TEPLimey
12-07-05, 12:15 AM
What a toolish comment. I could name a bunch of players who were declining and injury prone that played in the 90's as well and contributed quite alot towards the team actually winning a few rings.

I think you have to look at every player as an individual and go from there. What are Nomar injuries? Are they long-term? Do we care if we only sign him to a one-year incentive laden deal? Can he still play? Will New York be a fresh start and help rebound his career? etc. etc. etc.

My comment is "toolish" because I pointed out that Nomar is on the wrong side of 30, has major health issues, hasn't played baseball in a year, is in line for at least $2-3M and has no experience playing in 3 of the 4 positions he's being scripted in as a "utility player" for? OK.

You say "look at the individual player to evaluate whether he can contribute" and then compare him to Clemens circa 1999 and Scott Brosius? Give me a break. Clemens was not an injury risk, Brosius never had his groin fall off and also happened to play 3B, which was the role we needed to fill at the time. None of the players you mentioned suffered 2 (or is it 3 for Nomar?) consecutive season-ending injuries. Simply listing older players who had been injured in the past are incomparable to Nomar today. Such comparisons are asinine.

To answer your questions...
Q: What are Nomar injuries?
A: His groin fell off, he has major wrist problems, and is rumoured to be roid ravaged.

Q: Are they [the injuries] long-term?
The wrist problems may never heal. He's still rehabbing from his groin. He's had 2-3 long-term season-ending injuries so far. In a word: Yes.

Q: Do we care if we only sign him to a one-year incentive laden deal?
A: Its Risk v. Reward/Cost - Benefit analysis. Like playing the lottery, I'd pay $1 (little risk/low cost) to have a 1:10M shot at $10M. I wouldn't buy a lotto ticket at the same odds for $100. Similarly, I would pay Nomar at $1M (minimal risk/cost), but probably not $3M.

Q: Can he still play?
A: Who knows. Not me. Not you. Not Cashman. Not Nomar.

Q: Will New York be a fresh start and help rebound his career?
A: Again, there is no way of knowing, but he probably wont have a huge "rebound" as a part-time utility player.

I have major doubts that Nomar will ever be an effective baseball player again. I also have my doubts that he is willing OR able to fill the role we need to fill (Cairo, for example, would be much better suited to our needs). If that makes me a "tool" so-be-it.

Look, if the Yankees want to sign him for $1M and incentives as you suggest (and as I said in my previous post, if you can read) and see if Nomar can handle CF/2B/3B/1B, then I'm all for it. Anything more, then (for my money) I'd rather give anything else to an Escalona or Cairo who we know can fill that role and not have to wonder, come opening day, how many ticks are left on the Nomar injury-bomb.

edit: Nomar is on the wrong side of 30, not 40. He's still aged and decrepit like a cantankerous Methuselah, though.

mrbawm
12-07-05, 12:18 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?

ChrisV82
12-07-05, 12:54 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?

Because if he takes 3 years in Pittsburgh he'll be too old when that deal is over to get a long term contract, unless another 3 year contract is considered long term. If he can get a one or two year deal in Pitt or somewhere, then that might be appealing, but the only thing he'd be proving is that he can stay healthy on a sub .500 team.

TEPLimey
12-07-05, 12:55 AM
Because if he takes 3 years in Pittsburgh he'll be too old when that deal is over to get a long term contract, unless another 3 year contract is considered long term. If he can get a one or two year deal in Pitt or somewhere, then that might be appealing, but the only thing he'd be proving is that he can stay healthy on a sub .500 team.

Its going to come downto his desire to win v. his desire to play regularly. I'd bet he takes the latter, but who knows what Nomar wants.

just-blaze
12-07-05, 01:31 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?

IF (a big if) he is able to rotate around the infield and outfield like is being said, that could amount to 50-60 games where he plays in the field. He could play the rest at DH. Not to mention that he could sneak into the end of games when he didn't start. And this all doesnt account for any injury that puts any of our players on the 15 DL.

I think 130-150 games with at least 500 abs is very doable. That being said, he needs to play at the very least adequate at the positions he is playing.

He cant be any worse than Sheffield or Womack. Hopefully with a better arm than Williams.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:13 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?
Perhaps he wants to win? Perhaps he wants to resurrect his career (whatever is left of it)

Jasbro
12-07-05, 11:17 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?

Maybe to take a one-year, high-profile utility role on the big stage here in order to rehabilitate his perceived value for his next deal somewhere else?

Sort of what Kurt Warner came to the Giants for a year to do?

ojo
12-07-05, 11:20 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?


Its going to come downto his desire to win v. his desire to play regularly. I'd bet he takes the latter, but who knows what Nomar wants.

i would think nomar would get every oppurtunity to play in 140-150 games if he played for NY, be it DH, 1b, SS, 2b, corner OF.

nyctalopia
12-07-05, 11:22 AM
Maybe to take a one-year, high-profile utility role on the big stage here in order to rehabilitate his perceived value for his next deal somewhere else?

Sort of what Kurt Warner came to the Giants for a year to do?
And that worked out REAL well :D
Although I do believe it would be the best option for Nomar. He will not be receiving a high-value, multi-year deal with any good team right now. And if he accepts a 3-4 year deal, he'll have no free-agent value once the deal is over. If he takes 1 year on a winning team and makes a difference, he will get a much larger 3-4 year deal next offseason.

ojo
12-07-05, 11:23 AM
the day nomar signs just be prepared for the 'jeter to CF' crowd to start up.

NewEraYanks2527
12-07-05, 11:28 AM
the day nomar signs just be prepared for the 'jeter to CF' crowd to start up. Like that crowd is ever quiet?

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-07-05, 11:31 AM
The real question remains, why would Nomar want to come here if he's not going to get the playing time he'll need to secure a nice long term contract?

I don't think many teams are offering it. If he can play well this year and prove he is still a great player, he will probably be offered something long term. An incentive laid 1 year deal would be perfect for Nomar...

ppa79
12-07-05, 11:32 AM
First Boggs, then Clemens, and now Nomar.

scooterfan
12-07-05, 11:38 AM
I don't think many teams are offering it. If he can play well this year and prove he is still a great player, he will probably be offered something long term. An incentive laid 1 year deal would be perfect for Nomar...

it sounds like most teams are offering a role where Nomar changes positions

Look - if the Yankees sign Nomar, he will get 500+ ABs.

He'll play occasional LF, RF, and 1B... maybe even give Jeter a rest at SS... and otherwise will DH

If we're smart in building a bench, Joe will use the DH slot as a way to rest regulars.

I dunno how you guarantee this arrangement to Nomar - maybe make the incentives based on games off the DL, not on plate appearances.

nyctalopia
12-07-05, 11:44 AM
First Boggs, then Clemens, and now Nomar.
The first two worked out great for us ... and brought the World Series Trophy to New York.

yogibuck
12-07-05, 12:30 PM
I'd sign him to the one-year contract I mentioned above ($5M plus bonus' of $5M for an MVP, $4M for a second place finish, $3M for 3rd place finish, $2M for 4th and $1 M for 5th; $500k for a silver slugger award, $250k for a WS MVP, etc. )

and say

"The CF job is yours to lose in spring training." or the LF job is yours to lose if Matsui is in CF.

If we find a better alternative, the DH spot is yours with spot starts at LF, CF, RF, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B on a rotating basis.

We could give one guy a day off every week and he could still play every day.

He could also spell either Matsui or Giambi vs tough lefties.

Jim Roche
12-07-05, 12:49 PM
Sure...
An incentive laden contract....with the club option of addressing the contract on July 31st.
If Nomar has come through for the Yanks (as I expect he would), then, the numbers in the contract could be adjusted upward or the contract length could be extended.

yogibuck
12-07-05, 12:52 PM
My comment is "toolish" because I pointed out that Nomar is on the wrong side of 30, has major health issues, hasn't played baseball in a year, is in line for at least $2-3M and has no experience playing in 3 of the 4 positions he's being scripted in as a "utility player" for? OK.

No, your comment was toolish because you are trying to lump Nomar in with every bad decision the Yankees have ever made in their history. Everytime there is rumor about "Joe Blow" the tools all come out and lump them in with the ghosts of Yankee's past.

While not looking at some of the good moves they have made. To say Clemens wasn't an injury risk AT AGE 37 when no other pitcher in history (sans Nolan Ryan) hadn't really been that successful approaching 40, when Boston had pretty much kicked him out of town due to injuries and poor performance is also toolish.

And we're not even talking about that big of a risk $$$ wise as the present value of the money is not even comparable.

Look, I agree with alot of what you said in your more recent post. But guys that hit .289 with 7 Hr and 50 Rbi's get paid more than $2M. So you are being unrealistic to think that you can get someone who produced that with MVP potential for the same money. Tony frickin Womack makes $2m per year and people are spending way more this year.

And I totally disagree with people saying he will be a part-time player. The guy will get as many AB's as he is healthy for. He could easily get 500-600 AB's as this team has no DH. IF he could actually play cf, holy bejesus, we are set.

If nothing else he has proven he is a capable player at SS and 3b, which easily means he can fill in, back up 2b, 1b as well while primarily DHing.

I think he is well worth the risk and I'd put huge incentives in so that if he has a huge year, he is properly rewarded.

yogibuck
12-07-05, 12:55 PM
the day nomar signs just be prepared for the 'jeter to CF' crowd to start up.

Yeah, sure. The greatest SS in the history of the game is playing 3b and a guy that played 3b last year is going to give "that crowd" more ammo.

lol

yogibuck
12-07-05, 01:04 PM
#296 Yesterday, 10:07 PM
Yankeeah
All hell can't stop us now Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: North Jersey

Re: Is there a role for Garciaparra on the Yankees?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 million as a bench player is a waste of money

David Ortiz only played DH last year, so I guess you are saying paying him $5M would be a waste of money?

Hitting is a rather important skill. Not sure shy DH is not a position of value.

And wouldn't you rather have someone there who could ACTUALLY hit? AND fill in for others when they rest?

Sounds too good to be true for me. Matter of fact, sounds quite valuable.

yogibuck
12-07-05, 01:07 PM
An incentive laden contract....with the club option of addressing the contract on July 31st.

I personally would wait until after the season for incentives to vest, because one injury could cause someone to miss an entire second half of the season.

But I would not have any problem with a guaranteed option year vesting upon performance incentives. I would want them to be set high, however.

Yankeeah
12-07-05, 01:27 PM
David Ortiz only played DH last year, so I guess you are saying paying him $5M would be a waste of money?

Hitting is a rather important skill. Not sure shy DH is not a position of value.

And wouldn't you rather have someone there who could ACTUALLY hit? AND fill in for others when they rest?

Sounds too good to be true for me. Matter of fact, sounds quite valuable.


If you read the post above you would notice that Crosby18 said this


I could care less wether he makes 2 millon or 5 million, i just would love to see him in Pinstripes. Whether it be as a DH, an OF, a UTIL, or even on the bench

I didn't say anything about DH's or OF or Utillity players. And I think 5 million gaurenteed for Nomar is too much. His contract should be based on incentives reguardless of what position he's playing

NelsonMuntz
12-07-05, 01:28 PM
FWIW, Dan Patrick was just saying that Nomar could be headed to the Padres.

Yankee Bulldawg
12-07-05, 01:50 PM
i could see Nomar wanting to back home to Cali

surge511
12-07-05, 02:35 PM
I don't know why some people say Nomar would be a bench player - if healthy, he would still get 500 AB's; be it as a DH, 1B, or LF. He would be playing everyday, and it would keep him away from injuries a lot better than if he were to go the NL, where there is no DH. I see a lot of positives in coming to NY. I wonder how that meeting went with Cash today.

Yankeeah
12-07-05, 02:36 PM
I don't know why some people say Nomar would be a bench player - if healthy, he would still get 500 AB's; be it as a DH, 1B, or LF. He would be playing everyday, and it would keep him away from injuries a lot better than if he were to go the NL, where there is no DH. I see a lot of positives in coming to NY. I wonder how that meeting went with Cash today.


Thats a huge if

TEPLimey
12-07-05, 06:14 PM
Look, I agree with alot of what you said in your more recent post. But guys that hit .289 with 7 Hr and 50 Rbi's get paid more than $2M. So you are being unrealistic to think that you can get someone who produced that with MVP potential for the same money. Tony frickin Womack makes $2m per year and people are spending way more this year.

And I totally disagree with people saying he will be a part-time player. The guy will get as many AB's as he is healthy for. He could easily get 500-600 AB's as this team has no DH. IF he could actually play cf, holy bejesus, we are set.

If nothing else he has proven he is a capable player at SS and 3b, which easily means he can fill in, back up 2b, 1b as well while primarily DHing.

I think he is well worth the risk and I'd put huge incentives in so that if he has a huge year, he is properly rewarded.

Again, Tony Womack had a good year prior to his most recent contract. Nomar's groin tore off his body and his missed 75% of the season prior to this contract period. The two are not comparable.

If you want to pay Nomar more than $2M and expect him to fill a 1B, 2B, and DH role (notwithstanding the fact that we already have 2-3 guys who should be DHing and that Nomar has logged 0 games in two of those spots) for 600 ABs, then there is no point in continuing this conversation.

Mark19
12-07-05, 06:40 PM
I am really warming up to the idea of Nomar, if he shows in ST that he can handle 1st, 2nd and the OF, he could be an incredibly value guy to have.

CelerinoSanchez
12-07-05, 09:10 PM
Garciaparra will use us to jack up the price, just like most free agents do. He will then sign with a west coast club.

Espinosa's Glasses
12-07-05, 11:16 PM
Did I just hear on WFAN that Nomar was offered 1 year 4 million?

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:16 PM
WHOA! 1YR/4M for Nomar. I think he jumps at that.

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 11:20 PM
Did I just hear on WFAN that Nomar was offered 1 year 4 million?

by whom?

Espinosa's Glasses
12-07-05, 11:20 PM
by whom?

whoever does the show this late... I never listened to WFAN this late

SINCE77 2
12-07-05, 11:21 PM
whoever does the show this late... I never listened to WFAN this late



Which team made the offer?

Espinosa's Glasses
12-07-05, 11:21 PM
Yankees

SINCE77 2
12-07-05, 11:23 PM
Yankees


Thanks. I've always liked Nomar.

JavyVazquezIsSick
12-07-05, 11:27 PM
Looking at his production and the time the steroid policy was put into place, there is a good chance he was on steroids, and now isn't...

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 11:27 PM
Thanks. I've always liked Nomar.

Me too. He had his moments here before the trade, but he had some great clutch hits for the Sox.

Darth_Takeo
12-07-05, 11:28 PM
Orioles offered him the 1 year $4 mil... Not saying the Yanks couldn't have made the same offer, but I saw on ESPN Insider the Orioles did for sure.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:30 PM
*sigh* No Nomar :(

AMYanks
12-07-05, 11:31 PM
So it was the Orioles who made the offer, not the Yankees?

SINCE77 2
12-07-05, 11:32 PM
Orioles offered him the 1 year $4 mil... Not saying the Yanks couldn't have made the same offer, but I saw on ESPN Insider the Orioles did for sure.


Yankees can equal and even better this deal with incentives. I hope they do.

Darth_Takeo
12-07-05, 11:34 PM
So it was the Orioles who made the offer, not the Yankees?

The Orioles have made an initial offer of one-year, $4 million to Garciaparra, ESPN The Magazine's Amy K. Nelson reports. Garciaparra would likely play first base and possibly left field with Baltimore.
If you believe Amy K.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:35 PM
ATTN: Cashman

Offer a deal to Nomar.

Bernie Inferno
12-07-05, 11:38 PM
Yankees can equal and even better this deal with incentives. I hope they do. For $4 million, why not?

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 11:43 PM
For $4 million, why not?

How much do we pay Womack? $2 million. Nothing against Tony, but Nomar is ten times as good as Womack, if (big if), he stays healthy.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-07-05, 11:44 PM
How much do we pay Womack? $2 million. Nothing against Tony, but Nomar is ten times as good as Womack, if (big if), he stays healthy.

Nomar was more productive last year than Womack, and Nomar played about 20 games

ryanthe13th
12-07-05, 11:45 PM
ATTN: Cashman

Offer a deal to Nomar.

If Nomar is not on this team, I am going to start thinking he's fell asleep at the wheel.

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 11:47 PM
If Nomar is not on this team, I am going to start thinking he's fell asleep at the wheel.

If Nomar ends up in Baltimore or Toronto, I would say that Cash is in a deep sleep.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:48 PM
If Nomar is not on this team, I am going to start thinking he's fell asleep at the wheel.

I agree.

scooterfan
12-07-05, 11:49 PM
all that story says is that the Orioles made an offer - doesn't say Nomar accepted it

I get the feeling he could get 5 mil + incentives

ring403
12-07-05, 11:54 PM
I get the feeling he could get 5 mil + incentivesI think you're underestimating the market.

bostonyankeefan
12-07-05, 11:54 PM
all that story says is that the Orioles made an offer - doesn't say Nomar accepted it

I get the feeling he could get 5 mil + incentives

That is still short money for a player with huge short term upside. Time to pull the trigger Cash.

StatenIslandYankee
12-07-05, 11:55 PM
Cash, look at the market, time to go for Nomar and offer him a deal.

ryanthe13th
12-07-05, 11:58 PM
When a players agent contacts YOUR team saying he will play utility man, which coincidentally is what you need, you sign him. Garciaparra is clearly more than interested in playing for the Yankees.

ring403
12-07-05, 11:59 PM
When a players agent contacts YOUR team saying he will play utility man, which coincidentally is what you need, you sign him. Garciaparra is clearly more than interested in playing for the Yankees.His agent contacted alot of teams. Of course he wants the Yankees involved. It can only serve to help Nomar's bottom line.

ryanthe13th
12-08-05, 12:03 AM
His agent contacted alot of teams. Of course he wants the Yankees involved. It can only serve to help Nomar's bottom line.

But if Garciaparra wasn't interested in playing on the Yankees, I don't think he would've contacted us.

TEPLimey
12-08-05, 12:15 AM
But if Garciaparra wasn't interested in getting more money, I don't think he would've contacted us.

fixed your post

ryanthe13th
12-08-05, 12:19 AM
fixed your post

Considering how he is only serious about signing with two other teams, I had it right the first time thanks.

Dooley Womack
12-08-05, 04:24 AM
Right now, due to the Yanks inability to make a trade, not the right mix or time to make a trade, not the right players available to trade, whatever you want to call it, Nomar might be the best choice.

Try him out in CF and if that doesn't work, find him AB's at different positions, either DH, 1B or utility. If you can promise him x amount of AB's and let him know there isn't a defined role defensively until they find a niche for him, he just might sign to play for the Yanks. It's much better than what we currently have going on here.

Yankees1962
12-08-05, 05:47 AM
According to Newsday, Cashman had lunch yesterday with Tellem along with a couple of Yankee scouts to discuss Nomar. I would sign Nomar as our main DH and when he's not DHing use him in the field to give other guys a breather while they DH.

ring403
12-08-05, 08:01 AM
Considering how he is only serious about signing with two other teams, I had it right the first time thanks.I don't doubt that he's interested in hearing what the Yankees have in mind. I just think he might prefer a starting job at a set position, which other teams can offer him, over being moved around on a regular basis as he may be with the Yankees.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have him in pinstripes. I just don't see the Yanks as a favorite to land him.

ppa79
12-08-05, 08:14 AM
I want Nomar ask long as he doesn't cost too much. He can play some DH, 1st base, SS, and LF.

ring403
12-08-05, 08:29 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051207baseballoverheard,1,6812660.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines
Nomar Garciaparra might be getting legitimate interest from more teams than any free agent on the board, with the Braves the latest.

Jim Roche
12-08-05, 09:19 AM
From NEWSDAY article Dec. 8 - "OLD TIMERS DAY in THE BRONX" - scroll down...

Cashman and scouts Jim Benedict and Jeff Wetherby had lunch with agent Arn Tellem about Nomar Garciaparra, whom the Yankees are looking at as a utility player.
If Cashman and two of his Major League scouts are talking to Nomar's agent, I think that the Yanks are serious about this...

rajah
12-08-05, 09:44 AM
From NEWSDAY article Dec. 8 - "OLD TIMERS DAY in THE BRONX" - scroll down...

Cashman and scouts Jim Benedict and Jeff Wetherby had lunch with agent Arn Tellem about Nomar Garciaparra, whom the Yankees are looking at as a utility player.
If Cashman and two of his Major League scouts are talking to Nomar's agent, I think that the Yanks are serious about this...

Utility player? Ridiculous. The Yankees need two more starters to avoid having to use either little Bubba or curve ball-challenged Phillips as starters. They need a CFer and a DH-1b who ideally could also spell Shef and even Matsui to give them time as DH. Giles would have been great for the latter role. Nomar is the next best solution.

Give them man what it takes to sign him!! The Y's should not be out bid on this one.

dabomb2045
12-08-05, 09:46 AM
how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??

TEPLimey
12-08-05, 09:51 AM
how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??

I'm glad I'm not the only person who is concerned with a total absence of experience playing the 2B and OF roles that some have planned for Nomar. Even assuming Nomar will be healthy enough to play more than 30 games this season, what reason is there to believe that he is willing (to accept a fill-in role) or able (to play these positions) to do so?

There is no basis of the belief that Nomar will be a better OF than Sheffield or Crosby other than wild speculation.

Yankees1962
12-08-05, 07:35 PM
Nomar as the Yankees main DH could be a strong possibility.

surge511
12-08-05, 08:59 PM
Thats a huge if

Which is why it would benefit him to come to the Yankees, where he could primarily DH and maybe play some 1B. It would give him a better chance of staying healthy the whole year.

YankeePride1967
12-08-05, 09:00 PM
Nomar as the Yankees main DH could be a strong possibility.

I like the idea. He can also give Jeter/A-Rod/Cano an occasional day off as well.

indianyanksfan
12-08-05, 09:01 PM
I like the idea. He can also give Jeter/A-Rod/Cano an occasional day off as well.

wonder if and when cash will the pull the trigger on this one since nomar wasnt offered arbitration either. :)

surge511
12-08-05, 09:03 PM
how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??

We can be flexible; we can try him out in the OF, and if it doesn't work, he can DH and play some 1B. That is why we can sign him and then figure out what to do with him - our roster has a lot of flexibility right now.

flymick24
12-08-05, 09:06 PM
how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??

if the yankees sign him, they have ST to figure that out. granted, it's not nearly enough time, but better than nothing.

i just want him as DH so torre can't use bernie as the primary DH.

YankeePride1967
12-08-05, 09:14 PM
wonder if and when cash will the pull the trigger on this one since nomar wasnt offered arbitration either. :)

I hope soon.


how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??

I think it's easier for an IF to move to the OF than the reverse. Nomar is an athlete. I wouldn't advocate starting him in the OF, but I think on occasion it would work.

yogibuck
12-08-05, 09:18 PM
TEPLimey
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005

Re: Is there a role for Garciaparra on the Yankees?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabomb2045
how do we even know Nomar can play the OF?? has ever played the OF in his life??



I'm glad I'm not the only person who is concerned with a total absence of experience playing the 2B and OF roles that some have planned for Nomar. Even assuming Nomar will be healthy enough to play more than 30 games this season, what reason is there to believe that he is willing (to accept a fill-in role) or able (to play these positions) to do so?

There is no basis of the belief that Nomar will be a better OF than Sheffield or Crosby other than wild speculation.


Who knew if Mickey Mantle or Bobby Murcer or Robin Yount could play OF when they were young ss's?

Who knew if A-Rod could play 3B? Who knew Sheffield could play OF when he left the infield?

Outfield is much easier than the Inf as flyballs are little league compared to ground balls.

We know Nomar has the arm and in the past he has had decent wheels when healthy. At that point, it's all about learning angles, jumps and flight paths. Much of which is instincts. Typically if you have good enough instincts to be a major league SS, you have instincts enough to play the of. Especially the corners. CF is the most difficult for many to learn.

I guess it is possible that he could be horrible out there, but my guess from watching in the past is that he would be comparable to Matsui with a better arm.

Even if he bombed in the of, he would be my full-time dh. I also feel quite certain he would be a much better defensive 1B than Jason.

Matsui55
12-08-05, 09:23 PM
Who knew if Mickey Mantle or Bobby Murcer or Robin Yount could play OF when they were young ss's?

Who knew if A-Rod could play 3B? Who knew Sheffield could play OF when he left the infield?

Outfield is much easier than the Inf as flyballs are little league compared to ground balls.

We know Nomar has the arm and in the past he has had decent wheels when healthy. At that point, it's all about learning angles, jumps and flight paths. Much of which is instincts. Typically if you have good enough instincts to be a major league SS, you have instincts enough to play the of. Especially the corners. CF is the most difficult for many to learn.

I guess it is possible that he could be horrible out there, but my guess from watching in the past is that he would be comparable to Matsui with a better arm.

Even if he bombed in the of, he would be my full-time dh. I also feel quite certain he would be a much better defensive 1B than Jason.

The problem with your arguments here are that most of these players you cited were superior athletes. Yount was still pretty good when he went to the OF.

Nomar is now injury-plagued, and was never really a great athlete before the injuries. One can only imagine he has lost a step or some quickness now. I COULD see Nomar in LF, but CF in Yankee stadium might be pushing it.

Even is the Yanks want him, I still think he goes somewhere where he is a starting INF (3B?)- Minnesota maybe?

Yukon Cornelius
12-08-05, 09:34 PM
Are we looking to collect all the SS in the league? I hear that Tejada wants out of Baltimore too....Seriously now, my gut feeling is that Nomar is a big risk in CF. Add to the fact that he's been hurt these last few years and non-existant in the playoffs, I don't think its a good move for the amount of money that people are willing to offer (5+ million). I'd like nothing more than the Yanks to sign him and get big numbers and soild defense from him. I'm on the fence, leaning towards no but I could be persuaded.....:dunno:

bostonyankeefan
12-08-05, 09:41 PM
As a DH and part time sub for Jeter and A-Rod, he is worth $5 million, with incentives. We are talking about a one year deal. That is a minor commitment. Sign him.

smr15
12-08-05, 09:42 PM
....how many shortstops does one team need?

bostonyankeefan
12-08-05, 09:49 PM
A SS is usually the best athlete on the team, so I think that we can afford to have 3, particularly if they are named Jeter, A-Rod and Nomar.

Yukon Cornelius
12-08-05, 09:56 PM
A SS is usually the best athlete on the team, so I think that we can afford to have 3, particularly if they are named Jeter, A-Rod and Nomar.

Let's roll the dice and aquire Tejada too! ;)

bostonyankeefan
12-08-05, 10:01 PM
Let's roll the dice and aquire Tejada too! ;)

Very funny, but the fact is that Nomar will cost us very little, and he could be very valuable.

Yukon Cornelius
12-08-05, 10:11 PM
Very funny, but the fact is that Nomar will cost us very little, and he could be very valuable.

He could be valuable, but from the posts on the thread, 5+ million is not chump change....I just hope if we sign him its worth it. :)

TheManKnownAsMecca
12-08-05, 10:17 PM
As a DH and part time sub for Jeter and A-Rod, he is worth $5 million, with incentives. We are talking about a one year deal. That is a minor commitment. Sign him.

With the lack of free agents that match up well with the Yankees, as well as our depleted farm system/every trade possibility ending up with the Yankees giving up the rest of the farm system, Nomar is a great fit. He could be a utility player that plays just about everywhere in the infield, probably little LF, and can DH as well. Nomar is drawing a lot of interest currently, but I think he and his agent realize that his stock has never been lower. He can sign a three year deal with a team like the Pirates or another team who realisticly won't be sniffing the post-season for quite a while, or he can sign another one year deal that starts at perhaps $5-6 million with incentives. If the Yankees make a serious offer I think that it will be too good to pass up. One, it gives him a realistic shot to win a world championship this year, it also allows him to show that he will play many different positions to benefit a team. Plus, Nomar can keep using these one year deals until he has a healthy year and that will ensure him a big multi-year payday, not to mention probably with a contending team. I was the one who posted a few days ago about Nomar's interest to play for the Yankees and Twins, and if the Yankees make a legitimate offer (filled with incentives) then I believe the Yankees will sign him.

njommer
12-09-05, 08:16 AM
From NEWSDAY article Dec. 8 - "OLD TIMERS DAY in THE BRONX" - scroll down...

Cashman and scouts Jim Benedict and Jeff Wetherby had lunch with agent Arn Tellem about Nomar Garciaparra, whom the Yankees are looking at as a utility player.
If Cashman and two of his Major League scouts are talking to Nomar's agent, I think that the Yanks are serious about this...

This could be a huge pick up for the Yanks. Cashman must be serious about improving the bench this year. A bench of Nomar and Bernie compared to a bench of WOEmack and Ruben... :D

ComeBackShane47
12-09-05, 08:39 AM
This could be a huge pick up for the Yanks. Cashman must be serious about improving the bench this year. A bench of Nomar and Bernie compared to a bench of WOEmack and Ruben... :D

Dont forget, the Yanks dont have a DH either

DandyAndy46
12-09-05, 10:01 AM
Nomar as the Yankees main DH could be a strong possibility.

But not a particularly good idea....the thing with DH is with this team DH will probably be a rotation.....Give Sheffield a day per week, give Giambi some days at DH, maybe Matsui a day as well....if they were to bring Nomar in I think it would be in the super-utility/Chone Figgins role....obviously there are questions about his ability to play the positions, I just don't see the Yankees bringing Nomar in to be a full-time DH, there are too many other players that can be used to rotate through that role...

Captain Yankee
12-09-05, 10:11 AM
I can see the Yankees rotating Nomar around the diamond and DHing him (making him an almost daily player). Nomar can play 3rd, SS, and 2nd (in backup roles). You could also conceivably play him in the OF (in LF) and move Matsui to Center (or play Nomar in RF---if he's willing to give Sheff a day off to DH). Plus you could DH Nomar on any given day. I think if Nomar is willing to sign a one year deal (with incentives) to be a super utility player---that could be a very good thing for the Yankees. I don't think you can count on him to be the everyday center fielder.

effdamets
12-09-05, 10:12 AM
I think in a fantasy world, us Yankee fans want to see Nomar become Robin Yount...

DandyAndy46
12-09-05, 10:15 AM
I think in a fantasy world, us Yankee fans want to see Nomar become Robin Yount...

Possibly...but it doesn't matter to me...I'm not a big fan of the guy...he HAD a monster bat, I just hope if the Yankees do pick him up they get him on the cheap..

DandyAndy46
12-09-05, 10:17 AM
Dont forget, the Yanks dont have a DH either


I'm not a big fan of this idea that the Yankees have to have a full-time DH. I think this hurts the bench and more importantly limit's Joe's options as far as what he can do with pinch hitters/runners in a key situation. I think ideally you want to have a rotation of guys who you can DH and play in the field...it certainly makes for a more flexible team..

effdamets
12-09-05, 10:27 AM
Dont forget, the Yanks dont have a DH either
Don't they have like 3 DH's? They are just forced to play defense!

DandyAndy46
12-09-05, 10:31 AM
Don't they have like 3 DH's? They are just forced to play defense!


True Dat...

ComeBackShane47
12-09-05, 10:34 AM
Don't they have like 3 DH's? They are just forced to play defense!

Fine then one of them can DH, and Nomar can play their position, but as it stands assuming the Yankees do trade for a CF, Bernie is the DH, which is not a good thing.

YankeeStripes
12-09-05, 10:57 AM
I think he will end up here. I havnt heard much from anywhere else about him going to any teams to start.

Now that boston has an opening at shortstop though, maybe they make a push?

Quangormo
12-09-05, 11:54 AM
It would be fun to have Jeter, A-Rod, and Nomar on the same team, but I can't really think of where Nomar fits in, unless it's as kind of a supersbu or "regular without position" -- playing 2B one night, LF the next, 1B the next, CF the night after that, RF the following night, and DHing some too. It gives the regular guys at those positions a little bit of rest and keeps him playing regularly. Everyone involved winds up playing 145 games or so. They're fresher in October.

I've long thought a team ought to have a player like that. If Nomar can do it, he'd be a good one to pioneer the role.

Quangormo
12-09-05, 12:00 PM
I think he will end up here. I havnt heard much from anywhere else about him going to any teams to start.

Now that boston has an opening at shortstop though, maybe they make a push?

I've heard that they might be interested in bringing him back.

gdn
12-09-05, 12:02 PM
How funny would it be if Nomar was playing SS for the Red Sox next year...

ojo
12-09-05, 12:03 PM
I've heard that they might be interested in bringing him back.

i can't see him wanting to go back to boston. same ownership. no way.

i'd believe clemens back in boston before him.

hell, i'd believe bird starting at small forward for the celtics before nomar is back in boston.

TheMick@ND
12-10-05, 03:43 AM
I'm jumping on the Nomar bandwagon. If we could sign Michaels or someone like him (not sure who that would be) and if Nomar can play the outfield then we can do some rotation giving him, Sheff, Matsui, Giambi and maybe Posada all time at DH, hopefully preventing injuries. If he can't play the outfield, well then we can still rotate Bubba in at some outfield positions and DH Nomar when Sheff and Matsui are both playing the field and he could give the infield guys a day off here and there or maybe even play 1st somewhat regularly.

This enables us to rest Matsui, Sheff, Giambi Nomar, all of which will probably have some kind of injury at some point in the season and/or just need a day out of the field, but we won't lose the bat in the lineup like we did/would by playing someone like Womack, Sierra or Tino (last years versions of these players) out there. And subbing Nomar defensively for Sheff, Matsui, or Giambi would probably be a lateral move at worst. If we can get him, I can see this working.

I know there are a lot of ifs in this and maybe I'm getting desparate and wearing rose colored glasses but hey, I think its worth a shot and wouldn't it be great if we had two comeback players of the year in a row.

knickfan23
12-13-05, 02:19 AM
Is there a role for Nomar on the Yankees?

Apparently so. Playing 1st base.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/58605.htm

NYDCYankee
12-13-05, 02:23 AM
Ok good article I like that Cash and Taverez had lunch too. But I think Nomar should be the DH and if he signs on I think he probably will be.

dabomb2045
12-13-05, 02:25 AM
its just really amazing that the original "Holy Trinity" of shortstops may all end up being on the same team

I mean really....if you took a time machine back to 1999 and told people that in 7 years...ARod, Jeter and Nomar would all be on the Yanks....you would be committed :lol:

this definetly sounds like its a real possibility....and also good to hear Cash is talking with Tavarez

Mark19
12-13-05, 02:44 AM
I like the idea of having Nomar on the team but I would prefer for him to play the outfield. At this point in his career he is much more athletic than Sheffield and has the arm to help his case.

Jeter ss
Matsui lf
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Sheffield dh
Nomar rf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Bubba/DaVanon/Michaels/Reed cf

OR

Jeter ss
Matsui cf
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Sheffield rf
Nomar lf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Bernie dh

StatenIslandYankee
12-13-05, 03:55 AM
Please bring in Nomar!

guidry36
12-13-05, 05:19 AM
The 1B rumor is interesting. I like the super sub idea......and realize Giambi would rather play 1B......but the pitching staff would prefer some D from 1B. Giambi's knees would bother him less. Nomar would probably prefer 1 primary position. Signing Nomar could put the brakes on Bernie Williams return. I like the idea of Bernie in a Sierra- type role.....but how could there be at bats available with Nomar added? A 2 year deal (or 1 year plus an option) for Nomar would be a good move. Imagine the reaction if he were to play in Fenway wearing pinstripes...............

NYDCYankee
12-13-05, 05:25 AM
I don't think Nomar will be able to play a good first base. He was a pretty bad shortstop so I don't know why everyone thinks he can play in the field well, and to be honest with you he is SOOOOOO injury prone that I prefer him to be the DH.

Plus Giambi is a good firstbasemen he just throws like my mom.

surge511
12-13-05, 08:07 AM
I don't think Nomar will be able to play a good first base. He was a pretty bad shortstop so I don't know why everyone thinks he can play in the field well, and to be honest with you he is SOOOOOO injury prone that I prefer him to be the DH.

Plus Giambi is a good firstbasemen he just throws like my mom.

Nomar could definitely learn to be a decent 1Bman, plus he has a great arm so we would not have to worry about that anymore. I love the idea of bringing in Nomar, and it looks more likely every day.

goin for 27
12-13-05, 08:15 AM
Garciaparra is still a very strong hitter, and a heady player. He would be extremely versatile. Sign him for 1B, whatever, he can play any infield position. (Except catcher, of course)

He would be a phenomenal sub, and a fine everyday player if anyone goes down to injury.

If he can be had for a reasonable sum, get all over it.

Babe Rules
12-13-05, 08:15 AM
I'd rather play Nomar in RF and DH Sheff.

Yankee Bulldawg
12-13-05, 08:22 AM
Giambi should stay at 1B and Nomar should DH

Yankees1962
12-13-05, 08:25 AM
Giambi should stay at 1B and Nomar should DH
For what reasons?

Evil Empire
12-13-05, 08:34 AM
For what reasons?

Giambi's numbers at firstbase are incredible compared to his DH numbers.

Evil Empire
12-13-05, 08:37 AM
Giambi's numbers at firstbase are incredible compared to his DH numbers.
In 2005:
<table>
<td width="15%">By Position</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">AB</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">R</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">H</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">2B</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">3B</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">HR</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">RBI</td>

<td align="right" width="5%">BB</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">HBP</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">SO</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">SB</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">CS</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">AVG</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">OBP</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">SLG</td>
<td align="right" width="5%">OPS</td>

</tr>
<tr class="oddrow" align="right">
<td align="left" width="115">As 1b</td><td>238</td><td>48</td><td>76</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>24</td><td>65</td><td>60</td><td>9</td><td>57</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>.319</td><td>.471</td><td>.664</td><td>1.135</td></tr>

<tr class="evenrow" align="right">
<td align="left" width="115">All DH</td><td>177</td><td>26</td><td>37</td><td>4</td><td>0</td><td>8</td><td>22</td><td>48</td><td>10</td><td>52</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>.209</td><td>.404</td><td>.367</td><td>.771</td></table>

Yanks Lifer
12-13-05, 08:38 AM
The 1B rumor is interesting. I like the super sub idea......and realize Giambi would rather play 1B......but the pitching staff would prefer some D from 1B. Giambi's knees would bother him less. Nomar would probably prefer 1 primary position. Signing Nomar could put the brakes on Bernie Williams return. I like the idea of Bernie in a Sierra- type role.....but how could there be at bats available with Nomar added? A 2 year deal (or 1 year plus an option) for Nomar would be a good move. Imagine the reaction if he were to play in Fenway wearing pinstripes...............

Nomar signing may not put the brakes on Bernie, but very well could do so for Cairo. As many I've said before, IMO, Nomar may play mostly 1B but would be a great super-sub. Then sign Bernie as the 4th OF and pinch hitter ala Sierra. If this rumor is true Giambi better figure out real fast how to become a better hitter as DH versus playing in the field.

Also glad to see Cash speaking with Tavarez, but still wondering about CF?

Yankees1962
12-13-05, 08:41 AM
Giambi's numbers at firstbase are incredible compared to his DH numbers.
However, weren't most of his DH numbers from last year came during the time of his struggles at the plate during the first couple of months?

RobRiv
12-13-05, 08:41 AM
My initial reflex as a Yankee fan is to recoil at the thought of another Red Sox star in pinstripes.

But I have warmed up to the idea of Nomar on the team. He's an all-around talented ballplayer. He offers the Yankees the flexibility they require.

I think Nomar could be a substantial defensive upgrade over Giambi at first base.
Giambi would best serve the team improving his production as a DH. I hope he can make that adjustment.

If the Yanks get Nomar I think it becomes even less likely that they would commit to Johnny Damon for 4 or 5 years.

The Yanks could look for a cheaper/better alternative for center field for 2006 and continue to focus on improving the bullpen.

Tambe77
12-13-05, 08:44 AM
I like it. Have Nomar play the corner outfield positions and first base throughout spring training, then during the season he can spend 2-3 days a week at DH and 2-3 days giving Giambi, SHeffield and Matsui days at DH. He'd get enough regular at bats to keep sharp. The only problem is getting him to agree to not have an everyday position.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 08:44 AM
As someone who would like to see Nomar signed by the Yankees I'm very upset by the fact that it's George King who is reporting this story.

NYDCYankee
12-13-05, 08:46 AM
For what reasons?

Giambi is firstbaseman, and Nomar is NOT a firstbaseman. You can't just stick a guy some where and say you are the starting firstbaseman especially when you allready have one. Look what happned with Piazza. Plus if Nomar plays in the field he will tear an ACL and an MCL and will be done for 2 years. Keep as the DH and he will do great.

Dr. Gonzo
12-13-05, 09:07 AM
I would love to see nomar, and in some ways this solves CF. As we can completely carry Bubba and his average, as long as it is somewhat respectable. And for some reason I think Bubba would perform better then people expect, maybe a .280 avg , 350 OBP, and simply being a pesky player on a team that doesn't play that way at all.

jnewmark
12-13-05, 09:07 AM
Giambi is firstbaseman, and Nomar is NOT a firstbaseman. You can't just stick a guy some where and say you are the starting firstbaseman especially when you allready have one. Look what happned with Piazza. Plus if Nomar plays in the field he will tear an ACL and an MCL and will be done for 2 years. Keep as the DH and he will do great.

I like the idea of Nomar as a super sub, but I have the feeling if he does sign, he will gravitate toward one position,especially if Joe sees that he does better at a certain spot. However, the injury bug still worries me about Nomar. Ever since the wrist injury, he has been injury prone and I think the Yanks are taking a big chance. But, as others have said, if he comes with a reasonable price tag, why not do it?

surge511
12-13-05, 09:08 AM
Giambi is firstbaseman, and Nomar is NOT a firstbaseman. You can't just stick a guy some where and say you are the starting firstbaseman especially when you allready have one. Look what happned with Piazza. Plus if Nomar plays in the field he will tear an ACL and an MCL and will be done for 2 years. Keep as the DH and he will do great.

Playing 1B is the least likely place on the field to get injured. DH is safer, but I'm sure he would do a lot of that too. Plus, they are probably only selling him the idea of first base so he believes he has an everyday position. He would move all around the diamond, wherever he is needed most, unless he finds a position he excels at.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:20 AM
If Giambi's hamstrings or back are acting up then they probably had him at DH those days instead of 1B. Is his poor performance as DH due to him not playing 1B or because he wasn't feeling good in the first place?

You can mix up cause and effect.

mattie
12-13-05, 09:20 AM
[edit] someone already posted it.

YankeeStripes
12-13-05, 09:21 AM
Giambi should stay at 1B and Nomar should DH

You hit the nail on the head.


Giambi should start 75% of the games at 1st base, and phillips should start the other 25%

Nomar should be a full-time DH, and when Giambi DH's, you move nomar around as a super-utility guy.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:23 AM
I don't want Cano to become a platoon guy but if Nomar could play 2B on those days when Torre wants to rest Cano against a tough lefty, that would give this team a huge amount of flexibility.

The only downside is having dog-face Mia Hamm around, though maybe the team could invest in the Unknown Comic's old paperbag masks.

MTYankee23
12-13-05, 09:30 AM
You hit the nail on the head.


Giambi should start 75% of the games at 1st base, and phillips should start the other 25%

Nomar should be a full-time DH, and when Giambi DH's, you move nomar around as a super-utility guy.

If we sign Nomar, thankfully, Phillips shouldn't ever play. I'm sure Nomar can more than handle 1B for 30 games.

wileedog
12-13-05, 09:31 AM
However, weren't most of his DH numbers from last year came during the time of his struggles at the plate during the first couple of months?

His 2002-2004 numbers as a DH are just as bad.

MTYankee23
12-13-05, 09:33 AM
I really don't mind Giambi at 1B. It may be more of a ploy to get Nomar signed. One would figure just the promise of 150 games for a pennant contending team would get it done.

Evil Empire
12-13-05, 09:35 AM
His 2002-2004 numbers as a DH are just as bad.

Yes, I was just showing an example.

YankeeFan1
12-13-05, 09:37 AM
I like Nomar's bat, but I just don't see a position for him to play on a regular basis on the Yankees.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:37 AM
A lineup of:

Damon
Jeter
Sheffield
Rodriguez
Matsui
Giambi
Garciaparra
Posada
Cano

is pretty deep.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-13-05, 09:39 AM
I like Nomar's bat, but I just don't see a position for him to play on a regular basis on the Yankees.

Think BJ Surhoff with Baltimore in the 90s. Nomar would get time at first base, DH, play some right field (move Sheffield to DH), play some left field (either move Matsui to center, or DH). He would play just about every day, but would shift positions.

bostonyankeefan
12-13-05, 09:40 AM
Giambi is an average first baseman at best. If he becomes the DH, he will need to find a way to produce at the plate as if here were playing 1B. I love the idea of an incentive-based deal for Nomar. If he produces (and he just might) then we pay him. If not, the harm is minimal. Plus, we have the added psychological damage that we would inflict upon the former World Champs in Beantown. This isn't Mark Bellhorn folks. This is the guy who was the face of the team for many years.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 09:40 AM
A lineup of:

Damon
Jeter
Sheffield
Rodriguez
Matsui
Giambi
Garciaparra
Posada
Cano

is pretty deep.

Damon leading off again. It never ends.

MTYankee23
12-13-05, 09:45 AM
Damon leading off again. It never ends.

No kidding, at least we don't have to hear about the "explosive leadoff potential" of Juan Pierre anymore, well, except in the 5 articles about how the Yankees should have offered more for him since the Cubs made that deal.

flymick24
12-13-05, 09:46 AM
Damon leading off again. It never ends.

what's worse is that he has giambi hitting behind matsui

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 09:47 AM
what's worse is that he has giambi hitting behind matsui

He may have been just trying to get the G's together.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:48 AM
Damon leading off again. It never ends.
Are you insinuating that the difference between a lineup with Jeter leading off and Damon batting second would be so much worse than a lineup with Damon leading off and Jeter batting second that a team would be stupid to bat the players in their preferred spots in the lineup?

RIyankee
12-13-05, 09:48 AM
Nomar would be a bad signing. He's no longer a great hitter, yet he remains aggressive at the plate. He is a righty, so don't expect YS to improve his numbers. If they need a part time 1B, why not JT Snow? He's a great glove, bats left, and has a good career OBP. At the very least, Snow would be an significant improvement over Tino. That the Yankees would sign Nomar would indicate that this team eschews sabermetrics and dilligent scouting in favor of making a media splash with a "big name" player.

Sad. :(

MTYankee23
12-13-05, 09:49 AM
Are you insinuating that the difference between a lineup with Jeter leading off and Damon batting second would be so much worse than a lineup with Damon leading off and Jeter batting second that a team would be stupid to bat the players in their preferred spots in the lineup?

Huh? Preferred spot in the order?

BillBuckner
12-13-05, 09:50 AM
I'd rather play Nomar in RF and DH Sheff.
This is what I was thinking.

38Special
12-13-05, 09:51 AM
If Nomar could play 1B and possibly corner OF this gives the yankees ALOT of flexibility



Nomar would be a bad signing. He's no longer a great hitter, yet he remains aggressive at the plate. He is a righty, so don't expect YS to improve his numbers. If they need a part time 1B, why not JT Snow? He's a great glove, bats left, and has a good career OBP. At the very least, Snow would be an significant improvement over Tino. That the Yankees would sign Nomar would indicate that this team eschews sabermetrics and dilligent scouting in favor of making a media splash with a "big name" player.

Sad. :(

It really is sad...too bad that's not true

2005 POST ASB (post injury): .318/.347/.531
2004: 308/.365/.477 (with all of the injuries)
career: .320/367/.544

He's a damn good hitter and hes only 32

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 09:51 AM
Are you insinuating that the difference between a lineup with Jeter leading off and Damon batting second would be so much worse than a lineup with Damon leading off and Jeter batting second that a team would be stupid to bat the players in their preferred spots in the lineup?

Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Damon. I'm insinuating that it would behoove the Yankees to have the best available leadoff hitter batting leadoff.

I'm also still holding out all hope that Johnny Damon does not become a Yankee.

MTYankee23
12-13-05, 09:53 AM
If Nomar could play 1B and possibly corner OF this gives the yankees ALOT of flexibility

Agreed. Hopefully this is the thought process. Forget him playing SS, 2B, or 3B. By playing LF, RF, and 1B, we can get Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi some days out of the field, protection from injury, and also maximize offense if we can't find a regular CF.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 09:53 AM
I'd also like to point out once again that this breaking story about Nomar being signed to become the Yankees 1Bman has been written by George King.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:56 AM
Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Damon. I'm insinuating that it would behoove the Yankees to have the best available leadoff hitter batting leadoff.
So if the Yankees did sign Damon and Joe Torre asked you to construct the lineup, how do you line them up?

RobRiv
12-13-05, 09:56 AM
Signing Nomar would allow the Yanks to pursue cheaper/better options at center field than Damon.

I don't see the Yanks acquiring both of them.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 09:58 AM
what's worse is that he has giambi hitting behind matsui
That is really a stupid mistake for which I apologize. Afterall, Giambi did have 112 ABs batting 5th or earlier to only 305 batting 6th or later.

Matsui had 601 ABs hitting 5th or earlier and 28 batting 6th or later.

PoughVirginiaYankee
12-13-05, 10:00 AM
Nomar would be a bad signing. He's no longer a great hitter, yet he remains aggressive at the plate. He is a righty, so don't expect YS to improve his numbers. If they need a part time 1B, why not JT Snow? He's a great glove, bats left, and has a good career OBP. At the very least, Snow would be an significant improvement over Tino. That the Yankees would sign Nomar would indicate that this team eschews sabermetrics and dilligent scouting in favor of making a media splash with a "big name" player.

Sad. :(

Snow's awesome defensively...fantastic - from what I've heard. I haven't watched too many Giants games though, and I dont really like to rely on defensive stats. But anyway...I'm guessing if they weren't willing to give Tino a contract, why would they give Snow one? comparable defensive, maybe Snow is a notch up. comparable offense, maybe Tino a notch up.
Nomar is a gamble I'm guessing - high reward, seemingly low risk.
The only thing I'm afraid of is this being a Sammy Sosa to the O's last year.
On MLB Radio yesterday, they were talking about Sosa being a high reward, low risk guy to the O's - and look how that turned out.

We'll see...Nomar gives a lot more flexibility in playing around the infield as well than a JT Snow type.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-13-05, 10:01 AM
Plus, we have the added psychological damage that we would inflict upon the former World Champs in Beantown. This isn't Mark Bellhorn folks. This is the guy who was the face of the team for many years.

That's the fightin' words of the Tampa crew. Forget about the Red Sox, screw them, worry about what makes the team better first. The Yankees have reacted to the Sox for far too long now and did things to just rub it in. Those days are gone, they've won it all already, there is no more pyschological factors involved (if there really ever was to begin with, I know it affected the fans and media, but I doubt the team). You sign guys if they will help the team, Nomar can help this team. The only reason why you would want someone from the Sox would be because you know that they can perform under the scrutiny and the pressure of the rivarly and also in big post season games. But if it's to try to tweak them, forget it, let it go.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 10:03 AM
So if the Yankees did sign Damon and Joe Torre asked you to construct the lineup, how do you line them up?


Jeter
Giambi
Rodriguez
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Damon
Cano
Garciaparra

I'd start out like this. I'd move things around based on how people are performing.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 10:05 AM
Jeter
Giambi
Rodriguez
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Damon
Cano
Garciaparra

I'd start out like this. I'd move things around based on how people are performing.
And what is your estimate as to how many more runs that lineup would score than the lineup I posted?

NewEraYanks2527
12-13-05, 10:05 AM
Giambi is an average first baseman at best. If he becomes the DH, he will need to find a way to produce at the plate as if here were playing 1B. I love the idea of an incentive-based deal for Nomar. If he produces (and he just might) then we pay him. If not, the harm is minimal. Plus, we have the added psychological damage that we would inflict upon the former World Champs in Beantown. This isn't Mark Bellhorn folks. This is the guy who was the face of the team for many years.
Okay enough with the psycological thing but as for Nomar playing first everyday I dont really see that happening. If Nomar comes here I see him in more of a versaitle role, first base, outfield, maybe 3B, SS, 2B if need be and of course DH just to get his bat in the lineup. I dont think he will just be a first basemen as Cashman wants more versatility in the lineup, I think he would be kind of a Jack of all Trades or for you guys who are obsessed with him, the Yankees version of Chone Figgins, except slower and probably won't play CF. OH ................! What if he does play CF? Then that means Michael Kay was right, OH MY GOD!

PoughVirginiaYankee
12-13-05, 10:06 AM
However, weren't most of his DH numbers from last year came during the time of his struggles at the plate during the first couple of months?
What came first?
Once he was struggling, Torre didn't really pay much attention to how he liked 1B over DH....I think it just spiraled down for him until... he really lifted himself up.

stephsamps
12-13-05, 10:07 AM
Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Damon. I'm insinuating that it would behoove the Yankees to have the best available leadoff hitter batting leadoff.

I'm also still holding out all hope that Johnny Damon does not become a Yankee.


I'd also like to point out once again that this breaking story about Nomar being signed to become the Yankees 1Bman has been written by George King.

I am agreeing with you way too much now JDP!!!

I heard the report on the radio this morning and I thought, damn it, I bet King wrote it. There goes that idea.

NewEraYanks2527
12-13-05, 10:10 AM
I am agreeing with you way too much now JDP!!!
Whats the problem with that, when he's right he's right.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 10:12 AM
And what is your estimate as to how many more runs that lineup would score than the lineup I posted?

I don't know. I'm not a super sabermathmatician. I just think this lineup gives the Yankees more of an opportunity to score more. Maybe someone who excels at saber... can help us out.

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 10:13 AM
I am agreeing with you way too much now JDP!!!



I'd be scared if I were you.

wileedog
12-13-05, 10:17 AM
That's the fightin' words of the Tampa crew. Forget about the Red Sox, screw them, worry about what makes the team better first.

Couldn't agree more.

This rivalry has jumped the shark. Its time to just worry about building a good baseball team, and letting Boston do whatever they want to do.

I like the fit though, if Nomar is willing to take a Super-Sub role.

Dr. Gonzo
12-13-05, 10:33 AM
I don't want Cano to become a platoon guy but if Nomar could play 2B on those days when Torre wants to rest Cano against a tough lefty, that would give this team a huge amount of flexibility.

The only downside is having dog-face Mia Hamm around, though maybe the team could invest in the Unknown Comic's old paperbag masks.
it has been said that nomar can't play second because of the way he throws, his arm angle and direction on the ball would not work out.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 10:33 AM
I don't know. I'm not a super sabermathmatician. I just think this lineup gives the Yankees more of an opportunity to score more. Maybe someone who excels at saber... can help us out.
So your sarcasm at my proposed lineup was not based on any actual models that showed a better version and is just an opinion - that's what I was wondering.

I'd thought that Bill James and the other stat people concluded that lineup construction really isn't that big a factor as long as no terrible mistakes are made. Would batting Damon leadoff and bumping Jeter down to 2 meet that standard?

I agree with using non-conventional approaches to problems but if you have Johnny Damon and don't bat him leadoff, instead batting Giambi second, you're probably trying to be too smart for your own good.

Don Mack
12-13-05, 10:34 AM
As someone who would like to see Nomar signed by the Yankees I'm very upset by the fact that it's George King who is reporting this story.
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I want to see Nomar signed as well, much more so than Damon whom I don't really want that much. As for George King, occasionally he gets one right. Years ago, when ARod became a free agent, he reported the Yankees had been planning to sign him for over two years when he became a FA and move him to 3rd base. :lol: What a dreamer. Scott Boras scoffed at the idea of moving ARod from shortstop. ARod then signed with Texas. And you know the rest of the story. So maybe George King is just ahead of his time. :D

I would love to see Nomar in pinstripes playing different positions and DHing and allow Bubba Crosby to play CF until the Mets decide to unload Carlos Beltran on us when they fire Minaya for spending too much money and not making the playoffs. I'm sure George King is preparing that story now for the end of the 2006 season.

Captain Yankee
12-13-05, 10:56 AM
If Nomar moves to First Base and allows Giambi to DH this is a major upgrade in defense. Plus, Nomar can still hit. I think this is a good move if it is true. Nomar is also playing 1st base which is a position where injury risk is lower than say Center Field. Now if we can get Damon and Tavarez, this will have been a good offseason (from what started off as a really slow one).

orie
12-13-05, 11:01 AM
Jeter
Giambi
Rodriguez
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Damon
Cano
Garciaparra

I'd start out like this. I'd move things around based on how people are performing.Why wouldn't Damon be leading off?

JDPNYY
12-13-05, 11:02 AM
So your sarcasm at my proposed lineup was not based on any actual models that showed a better version and is just an opinion - that's what I was wondering.

I'd thought that Bill James and the other stat people concluded that lineup construction really isn't that big a factor as long as no terrible mistakes are made. Would batting Damon leadoff and bumping Jeter down to 2 meet that standard?

I agree with using non-conventional approaches to problems but if you have Johnny Damon and don't bat him leadoff, instead batting Giambi second, you're probably trying to be too smart for your own good.

Not true. I based my lineup on On Base %, Slugging %, and OPS+ figures. There is not a reason I can come up with why it would be better to have Damon bat leadoff over Jeter. Jeter is the better leadoff hitter. The only place in the lineup where I went a little out of the way was the placement of Posada and that was to break up the LH Hitters a bit. The fact that I can't tell you how many more runs they will score does not mean my lineup doesn't make more sense than yours.

YankeeStripes
12-13-05, 11:02 AM
Has there been any radio talk about this?

^ p.s. that lineup looks good...I wouldnt bat Damon Lead off.

I Love Wang
12-13-05, 11:07 AM
That is really a stupid mistake for which I apologize. Afterall, Giambi did have 112 ABs batting 5th or earlier to only 305 batting 6th or later.

Matsui had 601 ABs hitting 5th or earlier and 28 batting 6th or later.

Brilliant analysis. Maybe you should take a look at how WELL they hit, instead of just where it goes on. Wasting your best OBP guy in the 6 hole is pretty hard to justify.

BJG
12-13-05, 11:07 AM
So your sarcasm at my proposed lineup was not based on any actual models that showed a better version and is just an opinion - that's what I was wondering.

I'd thought that Bill James and the other stat people concluded that lineup construction really isn't that big a factor as long as no terrible mistakes are made. Would batting Damon leadoff and bumping Jeter down to 2 meet that standard?

I agree with using non-conventional approaches to problems but if you have Johnny Damon and don't bat him leadoff, instead batting Giambi second, you're probably trying to be too smart for your own good.

If you've seen Tom Ruane's stuff, in the AL, the difference between the best lineup and a traditional lineup is only about .25% over the course of a year, so probably a couple of runs for the Yankees. The bigger issue, as you said, is making a bigger mistake like batting a bad hitter first when they would bat 9th in that traditional lineup. In the AL, the difference between optimal and bad is probably more around 2.5% The gaps are bigger in the NL (around .4% and 4.5%).

Where I think you go wrong, though, is that we aren't talking about changing something that the players on this team are used to as a unit (yes, they are used to it on other places). Damon, hypothetically, would be a new addition, and I see no reason to not start out on the best possible lineup foot. Even if it is only a couple of runs, it's an indication that the organization understands these things and is prepared not to make the 20 run mistake if and when that bad lineup is a possibility. As a fan, I find that comforting, and if players come into a situation knowing that that's how it is going to be (i.e. don't spring Damon hitting 6th on him in ST, do it before you sign him), then I would hope they are signing here with open eyes.

Oh, btw, Tom's study seems to indicate that the best AL lineup actually has your traditional 5th hitter batting leadoff. Basically, 5 2 4 3 1 6 7 8 9 instead of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.

RhodeyYankee2638
12-13-05, 11:23 AM
Why wouldn't Damon be leading off?

Jeter is a better leadoff hitter, higher OBP, higher OPS, more steals, better baserunner etc

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 11:35 AM
Oh, btw, Tom's study seems to indicate that the best AL lineup actually has your traditional 5th hitter batting leadoff. Basically, 5 2 4 3 1 6 7 8 9 instead of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
I just read Tom's study and found that it agrees with me for the most part. 'And the difference between the best and the traditional lineup is negligible: in the NL it amounted to 0.38% more runs (or about 3 runs a season) and in the AL it was 0.24% more runs. These results seem to agree with the long-held belief that the ordering makes little difference.'

The study also indicated that it had to ignore stolen bases and the fact that hitters in the 3-4-5 slot have typically faster runners on base in the traditional lineup but this factor was removed for the study. As he concluded that the difference was negligible even without these factors, including them seems to make it even more clear that the gains from unorthodox lineups is likely not worth the trouble. As he also points out, 'Baseball players are not simply numbers in a transition matrix and a theoretically great batting order is not going to work if it causes a player revolt.'

In other words, you can keep players in their usual spots and not lose anything, why risk messing things up?

HipHipJorge
12-13-05, 11:46 AM
Plus if Nomar plays in the field he will tear an ACL and an MCL and will be done for 2 years. Keep as the DH and he will do great.


I like the idea of Nomar as a super sub, but I have the feeling if he does sign, he will gravitate toward one position,especially if Joe sees that he does better at a certain spot. However, the injury bug still worries me about Nomar. Ever since the wrist injury, he has been injury prone and I think the Yanks are taking a big chance. But, as others have said, if he comes with a reasonable price tag, why not do it?

This is my biggest concern is he's injury prone. We don't need an injury prone backup infielder.....

I'm even worried about him DH'ing and making it out of the batter's box without tearing a hamstring. When is the last time he played a full season...2 years ago.

If the Yanks do get him, well he'd better be cheap.

BJG
12-13-05, 11:57 AM
I just read Tom's study and found that it agrees with me for the most part. 'And the difference between the best and the traditional lineup is negligible: in the NL it amounted to 0.38% more runs (or about 3 runs a season) and in the AL it was 0.24% more runs. These results seem to agree with the long-held belief that the ordering makes little difference.'

The study also indicated that it had to ignore stolen bases and the fact that hitters in the 3-4-5 slot have typically faster runners on base in the traditional lineup but this factor was removed for the study. As he concluded that the difference was negligible even without these factors, including them seems to make it even more clear that the gains from unorthodox lineups is likely not worth the trouble. As he also points out, 'Baseball players are not simply numbers in a transition matrix and a theoretically great batting order is not going to work if it causes a player revolt.'

In other words, you can keep players in their usual spots and not lose anything, why risk messing things up?

Because as I said, you have to ask why the team is keeping players in their traditional spot. If the answer is, "because the difference is only about 2 runs over the course of a season given the relative equal value of the players involved and this is where they want to be in the batting order", that's fine. If the reasons is, "because Damon's a leadoff guy", well, so was Brian Hunter. The wrong reason is an indication that the team would make the same lineup decision for a 'leadoff guy' whose value was not the same as the other players in the order...whose value was worse. Now, you are not talking about the .25% difference between an optimal lineup and a traditional lineup in the AL, you are starting to talk about the 2.5% difference between an optimal lineup and a bad lineup, wherein a 8, 9 type of guy is hitting at the top of the order.

Teams do put together bad lineups, including the Yankees. The amount of games it took the them to not put Tony Womack in the 1 or 2 slot is an indication of that. It's also an indication that their response to the question above might very well be, "because he's a leadoff guy'. This is what I find disturbing. It seems fairly clear to me that there is a slippery slope with this team from non-optimal to bad. It's not that I have a problem with Damon batting leadoff, I just have a problem with the Yankee's probable reason why, and that reason opens the door to decisions that actually have a bigger impact.

Fabien Brandy
12-13-05, 12:08 PM
It's not that I have a problem with Damon batting leadoff, I just have a problem with the Yankee's probable reason why, and that reason opens the door to decisions that actually have a bigger impact.
I understand your point but given the gap between what is said publicly and what goes on behind the scenes between Cashman, Torre, et al, I don't think its possible to maintain your sanity by running every possible transaction through a 'are they doing this very good move for the right reasons?' analysis, only being satisfied based on soundbytes from Suzy Waldman. As outsiders we can only hope for the right decisions.

If the Yankees can get Damon at the years/money they are comfortable with it just seems crazy to make batting sixth an added condition when the potential benefit of that condition is negligible.

ryanm1058123
12-13-05, 12:17 PM
I have a problem with Nomar signing here because he doesn't fit into the Yankees lineup. He pops out on the first pitch a lot. I hate batters who swing at the first pitch.

Yankee Steve
12-13-05, 12:21 PM
I have a problem with Nomar signing here because he doesn't fit into the Yankees lineup. He pops out on the first pitch a lot. I hate batters who swing at the first pitch.
How do you feel about DJ? He is guilty of the very same thing. By the way, the Red Sox fans complained about the very same thing until it was pointed out how much better an average Nomar had when he did swing at the first pitch than when he didn't.

ryanm1058123
12-13-05, 12:23 PM
How do you feel about DJ? He is guilty of the very same thing. By the way, the Red Sox fans complained about the very same thing until it was pointed out how much better an average Nomar had when he did swing at the first pitch than when he didn't.

I also hate that part of Derek Jeter's game as well. I hate when ANYBODY swings at the first pitch regardless of if they get a hit or not because they will only get a hit 30% of the time and I don't think that one hit is enough to rule out how important it is to work a pitcher.

Clemens831
12-13-05, 12:25 PM
I have a problem with Nomar signing here because he doesn't fit into the Yankees lineup. He pops out on the first pitch a lot. I hate batters who swing at the first pitch.

Not to harp too much on batting average, which is of course an overrated stat...but Nomar IS a two time batting champ, after all...with a career OBP of nearly .370. I think he knows what he's doing at the plate.

sjb23
12-13-05, 12:26 PM
I have a problem with Nomar signing here because he doesn't fit into the Yankees lineup. He pops out on the first pitch a lot. I hate batters who swing at the first pitch.

Actually, if that's true about him swinging at the 1st pitch alot, he'll fit in just fine :D

JfromJersey
12-13-05, 12:28 PM
I like the idea of Nomar, but not as a full time 1st baseman. He can DH, play 1B when Giambi needs rest, or maybe even play the OF, and he would be a good reserve infielder. Stop with this idea of Giambi becoming a full time DH this season. He's not going to suddenly become a good DH just because we all want him to. History says he'll never be a great hitter as a DH.

HouseThatRingsBuild
12-13-05, 12:33 PM
I love for Nomar to be on the team

ICEBERG18
12-13-05, 12:38 PM
The Blue Jays have ended their pursuit of Garciaparra, the Toronto Globe and Mail reports. stopped pursuing free agent Nomar Garciaparra. "We're done with him," GM J.P. Ricciardi told the newspaper. "He has more money on the table some place else."

SOURCE:Globe & Mail:

Kulish29
12-13-05, 12:42 PM
The Blue Jays have ended their pursuit of Garciaparra, the Toronto Globe and Mail reports. stopped pursuing free agent Nomar Garciaparra. "We're done with him," GM J.P. Ricciardi told the newspaper. "He has more money on the table some place else."

SOURCE:Globe & Mail:

More money on the table somewhere else? Hmmmm. I wonder where? (not being sarcastic, I'm seriously wondering where)

stephsamps
12-13-05, 12:43 PM
What, BJ didn't want to give him his 5 yrs/ $55 mil...

Say what you want about Nomar, but he can still hit. Could probably be an excellent 2 hitter behind DJ leading off.