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YankeePride1967
11-12-05, 05:46 PM
Considering it's the Yankees making the 4 yr. $50M offer, I doubt Matsui leaves.

But the second Matsui declines that offer (hypothetically), you know Cashman will heat up the negotiations with Giles and his agent.

If Matsui declines this offer, I tell him he has until Tuesday at noon to reconsider (assuming the deadline is EOD Tuesday) and if not, on to Giles.

YankeePride1967
11-12-05, 05:51 PM
I would want Giles too over Matsui. However, I'm skeptical that he would want to come here. Anyone negotiating a deal as a free agent would be idiotic to say he wouldn't play for the Yankees.

NewEraYanks2527
11-12-05, 05:52 PM
Do you think that Sheffield could get the Yankees a good defensive center fielder? Personally I think he could, probably a team with a weak offense would take him, maybe Minnesota would do a Hunter for Sheff swap or something along those lines. If that is the case then an outfield of Matsui, Hunter(or any other really good defensive center fielder that is not offesnsively challenged) and Giles in right would be a pretty nasty outfield.

AMYanks
11-12-05, 05:55 PM
Do you think that Sheffield could get the Yankees a good defensive center fielder? Personally I think he could, probably a team with a weak offense would take him, maybe Minnesota would do a Hunter for Sheff swap or something along those lines. If that is the case then an outfield of Matsui, Hunter(or any other really good defensive center fielder that is not offesnsively challenged) and Giles in right would be a pretty nasty outfield.

Considering the CFer in return would likely bring a large decrease from Sheffield's offensive production, I would want a top prospect included.

YankeePride1967
11-12-05, 05:56 PM
Matsui avg hits and rbi's don't all come from HRs, they come from good hitting. How you say that a Stadium helps players get better numbers if thats the case all AL MVP would be Yankees then.

A stadium unequivicably affects a player's outcome. That's why OPS+ is such a great stat as it takes the ballpark out of the equation and makes a 1-1 comparison between players possible.

NewEraYanks2527
11-12-05, 06:28 PM
Considering the CFer in return would likely bring a large decrease from Sheffield's offensive production, I would want a top prospect included.
The Yankees getting prospects?!!! Surely you jest for as everyone knows the Yankees only trade away prospects, but I would love to dream that dream with you my friend.

BJG
11-12-05, 07:32 PM
Considering the CFer in return would likely bring a large decrease from Sheffield's offensive production, I would want a top prospect included.

Depends on how good the centerfielder is defensively. That defensive value could well close the offensive gap fairly quickly.

AMYanks
11-12-05, 08:35 PM
Depends on how good the centerfielder is defensively. That defensive value could well close the offensive gap fairly quickly.

I don't think the Yankees would do a trade off like that. Unless the CFer was good enough offensively, and great defensively (a player like Vernon Wells, then an average prospect could be in return).

But if it's a player like Aaron Rowand or Brad Wilkerson, then a good prospect would most certainly be needed in return.

Mark Healey
11-12-05, 09:00 PM
IMO, Giles (though I think the Yanks are using him as much he's using them) is a Paul O'Neill-type player...the kind the Yanks have been missing these past few years.

AMYanks
11-12-05, 09:07 PM
IMO, Giles (though I think the Yanks are using him as much he's using them) is a Paul O'Neill-type player...the kind the Yanks have been missing these past few years.

True... but he's a better, and more patient hitter.

BJG
11-12-05, 09:33 PM
I don't think the Yankees would do a trade off like that. Unless the CFer was good enough offensively, and great defensively (a player like Vernon Wells, then an average prospect could be in return).

But if it's a player like Aaron Rowand or Brad Wilkerson, then a good prospect would most certainly be needed in return.

A prospect, maybe. But a good prospect might be pushing it. The Yankees also get salary relief out of this, after all, and can go spend that money somewhere else, Sheffiield has had 2 straight years of decline, Sheffield is 37, and Sheffield has been known to be a pain in the ass from time to time

Again, let's try and break it down like this:

If Sheffield is about 15 runs below average in rf with the glove and 35 runs better than the average rf with the bat, he's 20 runs better than average. The great defensive centerfielders are probably more than 20 runs above average with just the glove. If they are merely average offensively, the Yankees are coming out ahead.

These aren't meant to be exact numbers, but if I understand these things in a general sense and that's what I see, I'd feel fairly comfortable in my assessment. It's not like the history of baseball is full of exact measurement of player value anyway, so I'm comfortable knowing as much as I can know and making decisions based on that.

AMYanks
11-12-05, 09:54 PM
A prospect, maybe. But a good prospect might be pushing it. The Yankees also get salary relief out of this, after all, and can go spend that money somewhere else, Sheffiield has had 2 straight years of decline, Sheffield is 37, and Sheffield has been known to be a pain in the ass from time to time

Again, let's try and break it down like this:

If Sheffield is about 15 runs below average in rf with the glove and 35 runs better than the average rf with the bat, he's 20 runs better than average. The great defensive centerfielders are probably more than 20 runs above average with just the glove. If they are merely average offensively, the Yankees are coming out ahead.

These aren't meant to be exact numbers, but if I understand these things in a general sense and that's what I see, I'd feel fairly comfortable in my assessment. It's not like the history of baseball is full of exact measurement of player value anyway, so I'm comfortable knowing as much as I can know and making decisions based on that.

If the Yankees add Giles to replace Sheffield, then it doesn't matter, since the Yankees will have significantly improved, overall.

I Love Wang
11-13-05, 01:43 AM
Your saying that thats why his numbers are better. And Giles are not because of the Stadiums. Because if Matsui hitting at Yankee Stadium is advantage then the Yanks 1998-2000 WS Championships are to.

How old are you? 6?

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-14-05, 01:36 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/31297.htm


A source said the Yankees are possibly looking at Giles in addition to Matsui, although Cashman said last week Bubba Crosby could also start the season in center.

Giles can play a number of different positions, Cashman acknowledged yesterday.

Bick asked Giles to rank the teams he wants to play for in order, and the agent said it's fair to say the Yankees were ranked towards the top of the list.

Great news and even better news no Pierre...

JapanJobbers
11-14-05, 02:39 AM
A Matsui/Giles/Sheff OF would be great for high scoring games. :)

BeantownYankee
11-14-05, 07:24 AM
With the potential of Giles, Giambi, and Shef in the middle of the lineup we'll increase the pitch count of the opposing pitchers very quickly. Add Jeter, Cano, Matsui, and A-Rod and this is a very deadly lineup, but the only way it makes sense is if Cash is thinking of having
Giles in center for one year and slipping over to right or left next year with Shef either gone or in the DH role. Shef definately looks to be breaking down in terms of being an everyday outfielder.

ring403
11-14-05, 07:43 AM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1131952040320750.xml&coll=1

The agent for free-agent outfielder Brian Giles said he believes the Yankees will be interested in Giles whether they sign Matsui or not.

"I think they'd like to have both guys," said Joe Bick, who said he is having "continuing conversations" with Cashman. "Brian said that to me in the initial conversation that we had.

"The way Brian has gone about thing up to this point are very legitimate and very genuine."

Giles, primarily a corner outfielder, does not fit the Yankees' desire to have a defense-first center fielder.

ppa79
11-14-05, 07:51 AM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1131952040320750.xml&coll=1

Great News. Hopefully by the end of the month we have Ryan, Giles, and Matsui all signed up. :D

mrbawm
11-14-05, 08:54 AM
Sounds like one of the worst defensive outfields in the majors to me. Sheffield never makes a play, Matsui tries to make plays that he cannot, and I don't believe Giles to be that great in centerfield.

Given that the goals for these Yankee teams is to always win it all, we place much less emphasis on defense than we should. You need to be able to beat the great teams, hit good pitching and not give the other team extra outs.

Boston is in a period of retrenchment and organizational evaluation. Now's the time for this team to do it to avoid the big problems down the road. It's not the time to try to win as many games as possible by fattening up on garbage. We should get rid of dead weight even if that means taking a step back. Even so we can still compete for the division, especially next season.

Yankees1962
11-14-05, 08:58 AM
Sounds like one of the worst defensive outfields in the majors to me. Sheffield never makes a play, Matsui tries to make plays that he cannot, and I don't believe Giles to be that great in centerfield.

Given that the goals for these Yankee teams is to always win it all, we place much less emphasis on defense than we should. You need to be able to beat the great teams, hit good pitching and not give the other team extra outs.

Boston is in a period of retrenchment and organizational evaluation. Now's the time for this team to do it to avoid the big problems down the road. It's not the time to try to win as many games as possible by fattening up on garbage.
I don't believe that Giles is headed to the Yankees so until I hear more confirmation from Yankee management, particularly, Brian Cashman I wouldn't be too worry about this scenario.

Mark19
11-14-05, 09:18 AM
I would be surprised if the Yanks are still pursuing Giles after Matsui re-signs.

If we do somehow sign both OFs, my understanding is that the Yankees would have an outfield of Matsui-Bubba/Defensive CF-Giles with Sheff at DH and Giambi at 1st. When Giambi needs rest, he would DH with possible Matsui-Giles-Sheff alignment for a game or two each week.

MassNYYfan
11-14-05, 09:19 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/31297.htm

Great news and even better news no Pierre...

:cheer:

NewEraYanks2527
11-14-05, 09:26 AM
I really dont think you will see Brian Giles in CF, if he does sign with the Yanks I really could see him playing right with Sheff at DH or Sheff getting traded for a CFer and I think we all remember that when the rumblings of a Sheff trade started this past year Gary wasn't happy so perhaps Brian is keeping that very quiet until he knows for sure he can obtain a good CFer for Sheff and sign Giles.

ieddyi
11-14-05, 09:43 AM
I would be surprised if the Yanks are still pursuing Giles after Matsui re-signs.

If we do somehow sign both OFs, my understanding is that the Yankees would have an outfield of Matsui-Bubba/Defensive CF-Giles with Sheff at DH and Giambi at 1st. When Giambi needs rest, he would DH with possible Matsui-Giles-Sheff alignment for a game or two each week.

Our DH last year was a black hole. Having Giles would allow rest to Matsui, Posada, Sheff and Giambi as they could all cycle through as DH

It would be an awesome lineup and a fresher one at playoff time

yanksphan
11-14-05, 09:44 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/31297.htm


Bick asked Giles to rank the teams he wants to play for in order, and the agent said it's fair to say the Yankees were ranked towards the top of the list.

BJG
11-14-05, 09:48 AM
As a converted SS and 3B, I'd imagine Sheffield could also pick up a 1B's mitt.

Sam18
11-14-05, 10:12 AM
If Giles were to be on the Yankees then I'm pretty sure they'd make Sheff the DH.

nyyanksfan20
11-14-05, 10:22 AM
It looks like Bubba may be the CF at least for most of the week and Giles maybe plays center for 1-2 games a week.

NewEraYanks2527
11-14-05, 10:34 AM
As a converted SS and 3B, I'd imagine Sheffield could also pick up a 1B's mitt.
You know that is a good thought. That is an excellent point. Good thinking BJG.

gold23
11-14-05, 10:39 AM
As a converted SS and 3B, I'd imagine Sheffield could also pick up a 1B's mitt.


He was moved for a reason :) I'm sure he could man 1B, but I doubt he'd be any good. Possibly better than Giambi, but he'd have limited mobility and who knows what type of hands he'd have.

Moving aging players to new positions is never that wise a move- especially with the body type of a Sheffield. Unless it is a catcher that is moving, or a CF to the corner or current infielder to 1B- it rarely works.

NewEraYanks2527
11-14-05, 10:50 AM
If the Yankees sign Matsui AND Giles it is shaping up to be one of the most productive but most poorly defensive outfields. I still am a believer that pitching and defense are what wins championships, we will have enough offense without Giles or Sheff so I believe having only one of them is sufficent and getting a good defensive centerfielder along with good bullpen arms is the formula for success. It's a nice thought having a lineup that has Jeter, Matsui, Giambi, ARod, Sheff, and Giles in it but really unless we get a good defense centerfielder who is more than a below average to average hitter then I think the Yankees will really have a good team.

Another thought I have is what if Bubba plays center and Giles plays right. That would greatly improve the outfield defense from last year but would the Yankees be willing to stick it out with Crosby say he doesn't hit above .250? I'm almost willing to give him the starting job if Giles comes aboard and the Yankees can get Ryan and another quality reliever. But would his lack of offense really be something that is unacceptable?

gold23
11-14-05, 11:04 AM
If the Yankees sign Matsui AND Giles it is shaping up to be one of the most productive but most poorly defensive outfields. I still am a believer that pitching and defense are what wins championships, we will have enough offense without Giles or Sheff so I believe having only one of them is sufficent and getting a good defensive centerfielder along with good bullpen arms is the formula for success. It's a nice thought having a lineup that has Jeter, Matsui, Giambi, ARod, Sheff, and Giles in it but really unless we get a good defense centerfielder who is more than a below average to average hitter then I think the Yankees will really have a good team.

Another thought I have is what if Bubba plays center and Giles plays right. That would greatly improve the outfield defense from last year but would the Yankees be willing to stick it out with Crosby say he doesn't hit above .250? I'm almost willing to give him the starting job if Giles comes aboard and the Yankees can get Ryan and another quality reliever. But would his lack of offense really be something that is unacceptable?

If the Yanks signed both Matsui and Giles, and rotated Sheff and Matsui in and out of the DH spot while having Crosby play CF everyday with Giles in one of the corners....it would be an improved defensive team AND improved offensive lineup from last year.

Yanks had a black hole in CF and at DH. Additionally, CF also didn't play defense. You would significantly upgrade your DH spot, and your CF defense would be much better as well.

The downside to this would be if Giambi couldn't play 1B 150 times a season. Then you'd be forced to play either Matsui or Giles in CF- still better than Bernie, but likely not very good. And Giambi at 1B for 150 games isn't great- though better than having terrible CF defense.

Sam18
11-14-05, 11:11 AM
Let's say we sign both Giles and Matsui, is there any reason why we can't go after Wilkerson to play center?

BJG
11-14-05, 11:28 AM
Let's say we sign both Giles and Matsui, is there any reason why we can't go after Wilkerson to play center?

No. In fact, it would still be preferable. Heck, forget Giles if you must and make it Wilkerson and Jaque Jones. Or make it Jones and Giles. Any combination in which Sheff and Matsui play less in the outfield is good. This is why I also suggested that Sheff play some 1B, becuase that opens up further permutations of what you can do with Matsui, Giambi, and Sheff on any given day. If Giles is the guy you sign for RF, then you just add him to the rotation of DH guys. If Jones is the guy you sign for RF, you let him play the outfield (and obviously, if you get him to play center, he'll play center).

Sam18
11-14-05, 11:29 AM
No. In fact, it would still be preferable. Heck, forget Giles if you must and make it Wilkerson and Jaque Jones. Any combination in which Sheff and Matsui play less in the outfield is good. This is why I also suggested that Sheff play some 1B, becuase that opens up further permutations of what you can do with Matsui, Giambi, and Sheff on any given day. If Giles is the guy you sign, then you just add him to the rotation of DH guys. If Jones is the guy, you let him play the outfield.

I agree.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 12:10 PM
If the Yankees sign Matsui AND Giles it is shaping up to be one of the most productive but most poorly defensive outfields.

Using this (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/dr_strangeglove_or_how_i_learned_to_stop_worrying_and_love_zone_rating1/) mehtod, Brian Giles was 4 runs above average in RF last year, 5th best among all qualified RF. Gary Sheffield was 13 runs below average, 2nd worst among all qualified RF.


I still am a believer that pitching and defense are what wins championships, we will have enough offense without Giles or Sheff so I believe having only one of them is sufficent and getting a good defensive centerfielder along with good bullpen arms is the formula for success.

I would say pitching is more important in the postseason than it is the regular season, but you still have to have offense, and any move which improves the offense also improves our chances of winning the World Series. Also, according to what I posted above, replacing Sheff with Giles would improve our defense significantly.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 12:16 PM
No. In fact, it would still be preferable. Heck, forget Giles if you must and make it Wilkerson and Jaque Jones. Or make it Jones and Giles. Any combination in which Sheff and Matsui play less in the outfield is good. This is why I also suggested that Sheff play some 1B, becuase that opens up further permutations of what you can do with Matsui, Giambi, and Sheff on any given day. If Giles is the guy you sign for RF, then you just add him to the rotation of DH guys. If Jones is the guy you sign for RF, you let him play the outfield (and obviously, if you get him to play center, he'll play center).

I would love it if this happens. Before the offseason I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but Cash is interested in virtually every move that I want. I can't believe it still; the Tampa faction must have really kept him down.

BJG
11-14-05, 12:24 PM
I would love it if this happens. Before the offseason I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but Cash is interested in virtually every move that I want. I can't believe it still; the Tampa faction must have really kept him down.

It really doesn't matter what the combo is in theory. If you add a CF, add a RF/LF, and Sheffield is able to play some 1B, it means you don't have to sign a guy whose sole purpose is to play 1B on the days Giambi can't. You can use the DH to deal with all of the over 30 guys on your roster rather than signing a guy just to DH/1B. You don't have to go overboard on a backup 1B, but can instead maybe go after someone with a little more flexibility, etc.

NewEraYanks2527
11-14-05, 12:24 PM
I would say pitching is more important in the postseason than it is the regular season, but you still have to have offense, and any move which improves the offense also improves our chances of winning the World Series. Also, according to what I posted above, replacing Sheff with Giles would improve our defense significantly.
Basically since I started this thread I have been really convinced that Brian Giles would be a good fit for the Yankees and that having him and Matsui at the corners would be a a good outfield, I have no problems replacing Sheff with Giles as long as if we do we have a good defensive center fielder. I really am high on Giles now and would like to see him in right field, not center though.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 12:32 PM
It really doesn't matter what the combo is in theory. If you add a CF, add a RF/LF, and Sheffield is able to play some 1B, it means you don't have to sign a guy whose sole purpose is to play 1B on the days Giambi can't. You can use the DH to deal with all of the over 30 guys on your roster rather than signing a guy just to DH/1B. You don't have to go overboard on a backup 1B, but can instead maybe go after someone with a little more flexibility, etc.

If Sheff could play some 1B and we add Wilkerson and Giles we could have 4 players who can play 1B in a pinch (assuming Phillips is a backup), 4 who can play LF, 3 who can play CF, and 4 who can play RF.

Jason could DH and rest his knees a lot. Sheff would be more-rested than if he were in RF and could also DH more often than last year. Matsui could DH more often, which is even more important if his streak doesn't end. Giles could DH a little as well. That could be huge, since all of those guys could use as much rest as possible so they can stay productive at their ages. And our defense would be improved at each of those positions except LF, which would be the same or maybe slightly worse. Crazy.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 12:34 PM
Basically since I started this thread I have been really convinced that Brian Giles would be a good fit for the Yankees and that having him and Matsui at the corners would be a a good outfield, I have no problems replacing Sheff with Giles as long as if we do we have a good defensive center fielder. I really am high on Giles now and would like to see him in right field, not center though.

I don't want him in CF either, but I wouldn't be too upset if either he or Matsui had to move there. Obviously it's not the ideal situation, though.

BJG
11-14-05, 01:03 PM
If Sheff could play some 1B and we add Wilkerson and Giles we could have 4 players who can play 1B in a pinch (assuming Phillips is a backup), 4 who can play LF, 3 who can play CF, and 4 who can play RF.

Jason could DH and rest his knees a lot. Sheff would be more-rested than if he were in RF and could also DH more often than last year. Matsui could DH more often, which is even more important if his streak doesn't end. Giles could DH a little as well. That could be huge, since all of those guys could use as much rest as possible so they can stay productive at their ages. And our defense would be improved at each of those positions except LF, which would be the same or maybe slightly worse. Crazy.

All that being said, I'd still be just as happy with Wilkerson and Jones as I would with Wilkerson and Giles. You just need a cheap platoon mate for Jones. Sure, Giles is a better player now, but he's also a bigger risk both financially and age-wise.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 01:10 PM
All that being said, I'd still be just as happy with Wilkerson and Jones as I would with Wilkerson and Giles. You just need a cheap platoon mate for Jones. Sure, Giles is a better player now, but he's also a bigger risk both financially and age-wise.

I didn't realize Jones had much of a split, but it looks like you can count on him for a +.800 OPS against RH.

If you can't get a lefty-mashing OF I'd just rest Jones against LH, put Sheff in right, Jason at DH, and have Phillips play 1B.

BJG
11-14-05, 01:21 PM
I didn't realize Jones had much of a split, but it looks like you can count on him for a +.800 OPS against RH.

If you can't get a lefty-mashing OF I'd just rest Jones against LH, put Sheff in right, Jason at DH, and have Phillips play 1B.

That would be fine too.

SINCE77 2
11-14-05, 01:25 PM
Giles is a fine player, but imo he does not address our CF needs. If the Yankees plan to trade Sheff or fail to re-sign Matsui then I have no problem with him manning one of the corner OF spots. Wilkerson can answer our needs in CF/1B and the #2 hole and would come a helluva lot cheaper than Giles. He could easily post a respectable OBP of .375 in our lineup and would probably hit 20-30 homers to go with 30+ 2B. Why overpay for similar production in Giles? If Matsui is re-signed then the Yankees would have over 60million invested in 4 middle of the order hitters, not to mention Jeter and Posada. We need to optimize what we already have and win with that. Wilkerson and a uber sub is all this team needs position player wise.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 01:30 PM
Giles is a fine player, but imo he does not address our CF needs. If the Yankees plan to trade Sheff or fail to re-sign Matsui then I have no problem with him manning one of the corner OF spots. Wilkerson can answer our needs in CF/1B and the #2 hole and would come a helluva lot cheaper than Giles. He could easily post a respectable OBP of .375 in our lineup and would probably hit 20-30 homers to go with 30+ 2B. Why overpay for similar production in Giles? If Matsui is re-signed then the Yankees would have over 60million invested in 4 middle of the order hitters, not to mention Jeter and Posada. We need to optimize what we already have and win with that. Wilkerson and a uber sub is all this team needs position player wise.

Giles is a much, much better hitter than Wilkerson, but I do agree with the rest of your post. Wilkerson should be priority #1, IMO, and if you can add Giles as well that's even better. We really do need someone like Jones as well though so we can keep Sheff's bat but not have to deal with his glove.

BJG
11-14-05, 01:41 PM
Wilkerson and a uber sub is all this team needs position player wise.

Actually, there's 2 spots in the lineup currently not filled - CF and DH - so the Yankees are in the market for 2 regulars. Simultaneously, they should address the fact that Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi should all see some time at said DH position, so simply signing a basher who can't field to be the permanent DH doesn't solve the problem Signing a 1B, which is what they've done the last couple of years, doesn't address the Sheffield and Matsui issues.

There's no reason to believe that a converted middle and corner infielder like Sheffield can't play some first base, so if you sign another outfielder instead of the full-time 1B/DH type, you are better able to address your multiple issues.

surge511
11-14-05, 02:34 PM
If we sign Matsui and Giles, along with a whole new bullpen, it will be a very expensive offseason. I doubt we would get Wilkerson too. Resign Bubba Crosby, and have him play CF on the days Giambi plays 1B. On the days Giambi DH's, Phillips (or someone like him) can play 1B, and Giles can play CF.

The more I think about it though, spending 25 mill a year on Matsui+Giles is a ton, plus we want a 30 million dollar bullpen. It is inevitable - the Yankees will never cut payroll.

Sam18
11-14-05, 02:37 PM
If we sign Matsui and Giles, along with a whole new bullpen, it will be a very expensive offseason. I doubt we would get Wilkerson too. Resign Bubba Crosby, and have him play CF on the days Giambi plays 1B. On the days Giambi DH's, Phillips (or someone like him) can play 1B, and Giles can play CF.

The more I think about it though, spending 25 mill a year on Matsui+Giles is a ton, plus we want a 30 million dollar bullpen. It is inevitable - the Yankees will never cut payroll.

IMO we will cut payroll as soon as the likes of Mussina, Jeter, Giambi, RJ, Jorge, come off the books and we actually develop our own talent and not give them crazy contracts.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 02:44 PM
Our DH last year was a black hole. Having Giles would allow rest to Matsui, Posada, Sheff and Giambi as they could all cycle through as DH

It would be an awesome lineup and a fresher one at playoff time

Good post. Plus, it gives us even more flexibility to offer a hitter in a trade (most likely Sheff) for a good-great defensive CF.

I think the Yanks internal thinking is to improve the defense up the middle witht the most important upgrade being CF. I think we are going to go just about all out to find a not just OK CF, but great defensive CF. Giles gives us additional leverage both as bolstering our already potent line-up AND a back-up CF to give us leverage in negotiations for a trade (giving the look at least we are not desperate for an upgrade).

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 02:46 PM
If we sign Matsui and Giles, along with a whole new bullpen, it will be a very expensive offseason. I doubt we would get Wilkerson too. Resign Bubba Crosby, and have him play CF on the days Giambi plays 1B. On the days Giambi DH's, Phillips (or someone like him) can play 1B, and Giles can play CF.

The more I think about it though, spending 25 mill a year on Matsui+Giles is a ton, plus we want a 30 million dollar bullpen. It is inevitable - the Yankees will never cut payroll.

How much do we have freed up from last season? About $45 million?

Matsui = $12.5 M
Giles = $15 M
Ryan = $10 M
Wilkerson = $5 M (arbitration)
Chacon = $2.5 M raise

Those are all pretty high estimates, but we would still need a backup C at the very least. I would like someone like a Matt Stairs that can be a PH and play the corners as well (although that's obviously not preferrable).

It will be tough (almost impossible) to lower payroll this year if they do sign Giles, and I don't think there's any chance it could be $10 M lower, as reports said it might be, if they do sign him.

Like BJG, if we trade for Wilkerson and sign someone like Jacque Jones I'll be perfectly happy.

ppa79
11-14-05, 02:47 PM
IMO we will cut payroll as soon as the likes of Mussina, Jeter, Giambi, RJ, Jorge, come off the books and we actually develop our own talent and not give them crazy contracts.

I agree with this. Right now we our minor league talent isn't ready for the majors. After the 2006 season, Mussina, Wright (4M buyout), Womack, Sturtze, and Sheffield are all free agents. Thats about 35M in salaries. DeSlavo, Henn, and Smith will have full seasons of AAA under their belt. After 2007, Duncan, White, Cabrera, and Clippard wil probably have full seasons of AAA under their belt. This influx of talent from the minors will definitely help the Yankees get cheaper. The 2008 Rotation will be dirt cheap. We just need to bite the bullet in 2006 because none of our kids are ready yet. Expect the Yankees to get cheaper after the 2006 season.

2008 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Pavano
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

2009 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Hughes
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

Sam18
11-14-05, 02:49 PM
I agree with this. Right now we our minor league talent isn't ready for the majors. After the 2006 season, Mussina, Wright (4M buyout), Womack, Sturtze, and Sheffield are all free agents. Thats about 35M in salaries. DeSlavo, Henn, and Smith will have full seasons of AAA under their belt. After 2007, Duncan, White, Cabrera, and Clippard wil probably have full seasons of AAA under their belt. This influx of talent from the minors will definitely help the Yankees get cheaper. The 2008 Rotation will be dirt cheap. We just need to bite the bullet in 2006 because none of our kids are ready yet. Expect the Yankees to get cheaper after the 2006 season.

2008 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Pavano
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

2009 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Hughes
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

The Jeter and Giambi contracts are real killers.

ppa79
11-14-05, 02:52 PM
The Jeter and Giambi contracts are real killers.

Yeah, but the Yankees can't do anything about it. Mussina, Wright, Sheffield will be off the books after 2006. Johnson, and Posada will be off the books after 2007 and hopefully the kids are good enough to take their spots.

Tifoso
11-14-05, 02:52 PM
Never have understood this one. IT'S NOT OUR MONEY. If George wants to spend on free agents (as long as they are good, of course), who are we to care if the entire team is FA's? (Of course, I am talking semi-long term signings of guys that can play out their contracts--a complete roster make-over every year would be boring).

Put another way...I get the exact same satisfaction seeing ARod win the MVP, as I would a "home grown" Yankee. Once they have the uniform on....

In all honesty, while I am very pleased for ARod and the Yanks, if we never won another MVP, but won WS every 4 years or so, I would be very happy.

Mark19
11-14-05, 03:06 PM
So, if we do pursue Giles, we could expect a lineup as follows:


vs. RHP

Jeter ss
Matsui lf
Sheffield dh
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Giles rf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Bubba/other cf

vs. LHP

Jeter ss
Matsui lf
Sheffield rf
A-Rod 3b
Giambi dh
Giles cf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Phillips 1b

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-14-05, 03:09 PM
Giles should bat 2nd and should not be playing CF...

I Love Wang
11-14-05, 03:10 PM
I agree with this. Right now we our minor league talent isn't ready for the majors. After the 2006 season, Mussina, Wright (4M buyout), Womack, Sturtze, and Sheffield are all free agents. Thats about 35M in salaries. DeSlavo, Henn, and Smith will have full seasons of AAA under their belt. After 2007, Duncan, White, Cabrera, and Clippard wil probably have full seasons of AAA under their belt. This influx of talent from the minors will definitely help the Yankees get cheaper. The 2008 Rotation will be dirt cheap. We just need to bite the bullet in 2006 because none of our kids are ready yet. Expect the Yankees to get cheaper after the 2006 season.

2008 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Pavano
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

2009 Rotation
Chacon
Wang
Hughes
Clippard
DeSlavo or White or Henn

Its a good thing all of our minor league pitchers are going to pan out.

Mark19
11-14-05, 03:18 PM
Giles should bat 2nd and should not be playing CF...

Well if we don't acquire a pure-CF, against lefties he is a better bet out there than Bubba.

ppa79
11-14-05, 03:18 PM
Its a good thing all of our minor league pitchers are going to pan out.

yup :D

longtimeyankeefan
11-14-05, 03:22 PM
How much do we have freed up from last season? About $45 million?

Matsui = $12.5 M
Giles = $15 M
Ryan = $10 M
Wilkerson = $5 M (arbitration)
Chacon = $2.5 M raise

Those are all pretty high estimates, but we would still need a backup C at the very least. I would like someone like a Matt Stairs that can be a PH and play the corners as well (although that's obviously not preferrable).

It will be tough (almost impossible) to lower payroll this year if they do sign Giles, and I don't think there's any chance it could be $10 M lower, as reports said it might be, if they do sign him.

Like BJG, if we trade for Wilkerson and sign someone like Jacque Jones I'll be perfectly happy.

I don't see Brian Giles being worth $15M a season.

JeffWeaverFan
11-14-05, 03:24 PM
Jeter ss
Matsui lf
Sheffield dh
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Giles rf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Bubba/other cf

With that team, the batting order should be:
Jeter
Giles
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Bubba/other CF

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-14-05, 03:25 PM
I don't see Brian Giles being worth $15M a season.

Depending on the length, its very possible it could be. We're going to have to outbid teams who can offer a LT contract and also teams on the West Coast. Cause despite what his agent says, he does want to stay out there...

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 03:33 PM
I don't see Brian Giles being worth $15M a season.

Nor is Matsui worth $12.5 million; I wasn't talking about worth, though, I was talking about what I think they could end up costing.

But overall, I can't think of many players better than Giles. Guerrero is the only RF who was better last year, and I'd take Giles' 2005 over every other OFers' as well except maybe Cabrera's and Edmonds'. So if you could guarantee he would produce like he did in 2005 the next 3 years he would be worth that much to me, but obviously that's not likely with his age.

Mark19
11-14-05, 03:34 PM
With that team, the batting order should be:
Jeter
Giles
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Bubba/other CF

Giles has even better RISP numbers than Matsui, wouldn't it make more sense to put him lower in the order? Also, I think A-Rod should be the cleanup hitter.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 03:36 PM
Giles has even better RISP numbers than Matsui, wouldn't it make more sense to put him lower in the order? Also, I think A-Rod should be the cleanup hitter.

RISP doesn't have any predictive value. Giles gets on base a lot more than Matsui so it makes sense to have him more towards the top of the lineup.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 03:38 PM
Never have understood this one. IT'S NOT OUR MONEY. If George wants to spend on free agents (as long as they are good, of course), who are we to care if the entire team is FA's? (Of course, I am talking semi-long term signings of guys that can play out their contracts--a complete roster make-over every year would be boring).

Put another way...I get the exact same satisfaction seeing ARod win the MVP, as I would a "home grown" Yankee. Once they have the uniform on....

In all honesty, while I am very pleased for ARod and the Yanks, if we never won another MVP, but won WS every 4 years or so, I would be very happy.


Its amazing how many people fall hook, line, and sinker for the PR. Money is no object for Steinbrenner . And probably even moreso this year b/c he is probably going nuts at not winning one the last five years. Obviously their not going to say there going to spend money like water, but they are NOT going to let money get in the way in whatever moves they feel will bring us closer to a WS.

Jace
11-14-05, 03:38 PM
Giles has even better RISP numbers than Matsui, wouldn't it make more sense to put him lower in the order? Also, I think A-Rod should be the cleanup hitter.

Giles, however, is probably the best OBP guy in the game outside of Giambi and Bonds. Matsui has proven he's just fine with RISP, and his slugging is similar to Giles's so theres really nothing gained by switching them while Giles' significant advantage in OBP (which will translate to any stadium anywhere) will be much better utilized if he is in front of Arod (and Sheffield, Giambi, Matsui,... crap this batting order is awesome).

27IsNext
11-14-05, 03:39 PM
If we get Matsui and Giles, Sheff will be packaged for a CFer.

Jace
11-14-05, 03:40 PM
If we get Matsui and Giles, Sheff will be packaged for a CFer.

Who do you think we could get for Sheffield? Wilkerson? I doubt the Nats would pay Sheff's salary themselves, and I think the offensive dropoff would be much worse than the defensive problems we'd have if we kept Sheff.

BJG
11-14-05, 03:47 PM
Who do you think we could get for Sheffield? Wilkerson? I doubt the Nats would pay Sheff's salary themselves, and I think the offensive dropoff would be much worse than the defensive problems we'd have if we kept Sheff.

1. Or Cameron. Or Rowand.

2. But you aren't replacing Sheff with a centerfielder. You're replacing Sheff and Crosby with a CF and Giles. The reality of the market is that Giles is available, someone will lose out on him, Sheffield only has a year less and is a slightly smaller risk as a result, etc.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 03:49 PM
So, if we do pursue Giles, we could expect a lineup as follows:


vs. RHP

Jeter ss
Matsui lf
Sheffield dh
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Giles rf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Bubba/other cf

vs. LHP

Jeter ss
Matsui lf
Sheffield rf
A-Rod 3b
Giambi dh
Giles cf
Cano 2b
Posada c
Phillips 1b

Our line-up (until the playoffs) was unstoppable when A-rod was finally moved to the 2-hole. It was something I pined for all year b/c the players who are the most clutch are slotted best, as well as A-Rods high OBP and baserunnimg abiltiy at the top of the order.


Jeter ss
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1B
Sheffield DH
Matsui lf
Giles RF
Cano 2b
Posada c
(great defender type) CF

OR (the surely more popular option)

Jeter ss
Giles RF
A-Rod ss
Giambi 1B
Sheffield DH
Matsui lf
Cano 2b
Posada c
(great defender type) CF

though Id rather have A-rod batting second, the second option offers a great alternating L/R combination.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 03:50 PM
If we get Matsui and Giles, Sheff will be packaged for a CFer.

Thats if Sheffs act past and possiblty present doesnt scare potential suitors away, a big if.

ppa79
11-14-05, 03:51 PM
Jeter ss
Giles RF
A-Rod ss
Giambi 1B
Sheffield DH
Matsui lf
Cano 2b
Posada c
(great defender type) CF

though Id rather have A-rod batting second, the second option offers a great alternating L/R combination.

I like this one better

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 03:54 PM
1. Or Cameron. Or Rowand.

2. But you aren't replacing Sheff with a centerfielder. You're replacing Sheff and Crosby with a CF and Giles. The reality of the market is that Giles is available, someone will lose out on him, Sheffield only has a year less and is a slightly smaller risk as a result, etc.

Who would you trade Sheff for?

I would probably do Sheff for Cameron (assuming the Yankees are confident he will be health) and either Diaz, Heilman, Petit, or Milledge (obviously the Mets would part with Diaz before the others).

I would also do Sheff for Rowand, Marte, and Chris Young, but I'm not sure if the White Sox would give up Young even though they have Anderson and Sweeny.

*Both of those deals are contingent on us signing Giles.

And here's the other question to consider:

Are we better off trading for Wilkerson or Bradley and signing someone like Jones for RF than we are signing Giles and trading Sheff for a CF?

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-14-05, 03:56 PM
If we get Matsui and Giles, Sheff will be packaged for a CFer.

Realistically, there is only one place you can send Sheffield to and he'll accept the deal, the Marlins. He gets to play back in his home state, for a competitive team, under Girardi (who he knows, obviously). And that means the Yankees have to take back salary to make it work, since the Marlins are already trying to shed Delgado's salary (WTF were they thinking in the first place last year, is the first question, did they suddenly realize they couldn't afford him for more than one year). Would Sheffield (in the last year on his deal) for Delgado make sense? We do know that Delgado wanted to come to the Yankees last year before spurning the Mets and going to Florida. Not sure I'd want essentially 2 highly paid DH's on the team (with Giambi). Regardless, I think it's all moot. I don't think Sheffield goes anywhere. And if the Yankees do sign Giles, which I personally don't believe, I think that Cashman and Giles agent have agreed to use each other to help each other out in their respective negotiations, then you'll see Matsui in center, Giles in left, and Sheffield in right.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 03:56 PM
I like this one better

LOL I almost do too. I just am really down on A-rods ability to hit in the clutch vs. the plethora of other options we have on this team. However his third year here he may become beter in possibly the only weak part of his game. If so, the line-up you prefer would be lethal in probably historical proportions.

SINCE77 2
11-14-05, 03:58 PM
Who would you trade Sheff for?

I would probably do Sheff for Cameron (assuming the Yankees are confident he will be health) and either Diaz, Heilman, Petit, or Milledge (obviously the Mets would part with Diaz before the others).

I would also do Sheff for Rowand, Marte, and Chris Young, but I'm not sure if the White Sox would give up Young even though they have Anderson and Sweeny.

*Both of those deals are contingent on us signing Giles.

And here's the other question to consider:

Are we better off trading for Wilkerson or Bradley and signing someone like Jones for RF than we are signing Giles and trading Sheff for a CF?


Rowand and Marte would fill some holes nicely. Get BJ Ryan and call it a day.

ppa79
11-14-05, 04:01 PM
LOL I almost do too. I just am really down on A-rods ability to hit in the clutch vs. the plethora of other options we have on this team. However his third year here he may become beter in possibly the only weak part of his game. If so, the line-up you prefer would be lethal in probably historical proportions.

I hope that lineup comes true. 1-6 is unbeliveable. :drool:

JMAN74
11-14-05, 04:02 PM
Rowand and Marte would fill some holes nicely. Get BJ Ryan and call it a day.

One problem. I highly doubt the World Series winner who coincidentally is in the same league as we are, would fill our two biggest holes on this team. Yes Sheff would pronbly help them but I don't know if they want a character risk on a team/coach that preaches/relies on team chemistry.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 04:04 PM
Realistically, there is only one place you can send Sheffield to and he'll accept the deal, the Marlins. He gets to play back in his home state, for a competitive team, under Girardi (who he knows, obviously).

Sheff doesn't have a NTC (as I think you know) so if he doesn't want to go where he's traded he can either retire and forfeit the money he's still owed on this contract or likely get suspended by Selig who would never allow a player without a NTC to do such a thing, which would also mean he's forfeiting the rest of the money on this contract.

I think if push came to shove Sheff would go where we trade him. He may not be all that happy about it, but I can't see him letting it affect his performance since he'll be playing for a new contract.

Jace
11-14-05, 04:04 PM
1. Or Cameron. Or Rowand.

2. But you aren't replacing Sheff with a centerfielder. You're replacing Sheff and Crosby with a CF and Giles. The reality of the market is that Giles is available, someone will lose out on him, Sheffield only has a year less and is a slightly smaller risk as a result, etc.

I doubt that the White Sox deal Rowand for Sheffield straight up. I'm pretty sure I remember a news story about the White Sox completely rebuffing the Yanks when they were asking about Rowand, and I doubt the Yanks forgot to mention Sheffield then. Rowand is younger, had a very good offensive year before last year, is a good defender, and makes $10 million less than Sheffield. And this could all not matter if the White Sox don't feel like dealing with the Sheffield hurt feelings sabotage-new-team-or-not roulette. Maybe if we pay 50%+ of Sheff's salary, but I probably wouldn't do that just out of the principle it would continue about how teams can always gouge us for some extra cash in a trade.

I would not be surprised if Cameron is never the same fielder and maybe even hitter again. Guys who get beaned in the head have this problem, and Cameron got much worse- his face was shattered. He could easily be tentative and scared in center, a position that pretty much requires him to take command of any flyball situation and do it quickly. I really don't know if he is worth the risk.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 04:06 PM
One problem. I highly doubt the World Series winner who coincidentally is in the same league as we are, would fill our two biggest holes on this team. Yes Sheff would pronbly help them but I don't know if they want a character risk on a team/coach that preaches/relies on team chemistry.

The only way they would trade for Sheff, IMO, is if Konerko leaves. I know that would hurt their defense significantly, but they absolutely must add another bat if he leaves (they really should anyways unless they think they can re-sign Thomas and he'll be healthy).

Also, Jermaine Dye has already said he'd move to 1B if he had to, so as long as they sign a DH (or RF) their lineup would be completely filled. They want to get rid of Marte anyways.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-14-05, 04:08 PM
Sheff doesn't have a NTC (as I think you know) so if he doesn't want to go where he's traded he can either retire and forfeit the money he's still owed on this contract or likely get suspended by Selig who would never allow a player without a NTC to do such a thing, which would also mean he's forfeiting the rest of the money on this contract.

I think if push came to shove Sheff would go where we trade him. He may not be all that happy about it, but I can't see him letting it affect his performance since he'll be playing for a new contract.

I think the issue is exactly as what Sheff laid out last year when the rumors started. We all know he doesn't have a NTC, but basically put a threat out anyone who trades for him that he'll be a problem and expect a market value extension because he gave the Yankees a "discount" rate for his services because he wanted to come to the Yankees. What team is going to pay Sheffield the money that his production shows considering his age? Not many. So you are forced to trade him someplace he'd be happy, like Florida. Bottom line, I don't think he goes anywhere.

BJG
11-14-05, 04:09 PM
One problem. I highly doubt the World Series winner who coincidentally is in the same league as we are, would fill our two biggest holes on this team. Yes Sheff would pronbly help them but I don't know if they want a character risk on a team/coach that preaches/relies on team chemistry.

The team with Carl Everett and AJ Pierzynski? Come on. Williams' style is to go after these kinds of guys because he thinks he can get them on the cheap, not shun them, and then integrate them into the 'family'.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 04:18 PM
The team with Carl Everett and AJ Pierzynski? Come on. Williams' style is to go after these kinds of guys because he thinks he can get them on the cheap, not shun them, and then integrate them into the 'family'.

Don't forget Bobby Jenks, and El Duque has had problems before as well. It's not like Ozzie Guillen is exactly Mr. Personality either.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 04:19 PM
I think the issue is exactly as what Sheff laid out last year when the rumors started. We all know he doesn't have a NTC, but basically put a threat out anyone who trades for him that he'll be a problem and expect a market value extension because he gave the Yankees a "discount" rate for his services because he wanted to come to the Yankees. What team is going to pay Sheffield the money that his production shows considering his age? Not many. So you are forced to trade him someplace he'd be happy, like Florida. Bottom line, I don't think he goes anywhere.

Unless he doesn't care about making money after 2006 he'll perform to the best of his abilities whether or not he wants to be where he's traded. I would think any team trading for him would be aware of this.

I don't think he's going anywhere either, though.

Yankees1962
11-14-05, 04:22 PM
The team with Carl Everett and AJ Pierzynski? Come on. Williams' style is to go after these kinds of guys because he thinks he can get them on the cheap, not shun them, and then integrate them into the 'family'.
The White Sox will only do so if it makes financial sense for them. If they sign Konerko then you can forget it.

AMYanks
11-14-05, 04:29 PM
Imagine this lineup:

Jeter SS
Giles RF
A-Rod 3B
Giambi 1B
Sheffield DH
Matsui LF
Wilkerson CF
Posada C
Cano 2B

You could switch Wilkerson and Cano if you want... but that's beautiful.

BJG
11-14-05, 04:30 PM
The White Sox will only do so if it makes financial sense for them. If they sign Konerko then you can forget it.

Sure, but that wasn't the question. The question was why would Chicago talk Sheff because of his 'attitude'.

Jace
11-14-05, 04:35 PM
Imagine this lineup:

Jeter SS
Giles RF
A-Rod 3B
Giambi 1B
Sheffield DH
Matsui LF
Wilkerson CF
Posada C
Cano 2B

You could switch Wilkerson and Cano if you want... but that's beautiful.

Hehe... its pretty nice... who did we trade for Wilkerson?

AMYanks
11-14-05, 04:37 PM
Hehe... its pretty nice... who did we trade for Wilkerson?

He could probably be had for Melky and another average prospect. Considering we're dealing with Bowden, it might be even less.

ICEBERG18
11-14-05, 04:37 PM
I doubt that the White Sox deal Rowand for Sheffield straight up.


I wouldn't do that deal anyway.

NewEraYanks2527
11-14-05, 04:45 PM
I wouldn't do that deal anyway.
Why not, straight up means they would take on Sheff's contract. We would dump payroll(for once) and get a great defensive, young centerfielder. I would do it in a heartbeat. Sign Giles and then the Yankees have greatly improved with a Matsui, Rowand, Giles outfield and the lineup is just as strong.

terminator
11-14-05, 04:59 PM
Sign Giles and then the Yankees have greatly improved with a Matsui, Rowand, Giles outfield and the lineup is just as strong.

Arguably stronger.

Matsui, Rowand, Giles > Matsui, Bernie/Bubba, Sheff

And while that might be debatable - because Sheff is a hell of a hitter - no doubt the defense would be remarkably better.

I Love Wang
11-14-05, 05:28 PM
RISP doesn't have any predictive value. Giles gets on base a lot more than Matsui so it makes sense to have him more towards the top of the lineup.

Yes it does. Giles is a better hitter than Matsui, so I predict that he'll hit better with RISP.

JeffWeaverFan
11-14-05, 05:31 PM
Giles has even better RISP numbers than Matsui, wouldn't it make more sense to put him lower in the order? Also, I think A-Rod should be the cleanup hitter.
I like Giles as the #2 hitter and A-Rod as the #3 hitter because of their fantastic OBP's. This way, everyone on the team gets more AB's.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 05:31 PM
The team with Carl Everett and AJ Pierzynski? Come on. Williams' style is to go after these kinds of guys because he thinks he can get them on the cheap, not shun them, and then integrate them into the 'family'.

Hmmmm...I could be wrong then. I guess it depends on whether they think Sheff particular quirks are worth mixing in with the rest of the group. Also of course will they want to deal with us?

MassNYYfan
11-14-05, 05:45 PM
Well if the guy on SportsCenter can be believed (didn't catch his name.......Sam something from Daily News?), the Yankees "right now at least, look to be pursuing Brian Giles for their first choice in that [CF] role."

Just passing along.

AMYanks
11-14-05, 05:47 PM
Well if the guy on SportsCenter (didn't catch his name.......Sam something from Daily News?), the Yankees "right now at least, look to be pursuing Brian Giles for their first choice in that [CF] role."

Just passing along.

If that's the case, I'd prefer Giles to be a part time CFer, and have him in RF, Sheff DH, and Bubba in CF the other times.

But, I'm glad Cashman is going after Giles.

StaceyRosie
11-14-05, 05:48 PM
Well if the guy on SportsCenter (didn't catch his name.......Sam something from Daily News?), the Yankees "right now at least, look to be pursuing Brian Giles for their first choice in that [CF] role."

Just passing along.

Borden!? Tell me what he looked like.

BJG
11-14-05, 05:50 PM
Hmmmm...I could be wrong then. I guess it depends on whether they think Sheff particular quirks are worth mixing in with the rest of the group. Also of course will they want to deal with us?

Quirky guys is the market inequaility that Williams has most often exploited...kind of like a baseball version of the Raiders with Ozzie Guillen playing the role of Madden.

27IsNext
11-14-05, 05:56 PM
I personally think Giles' agent is using the Yankees to drive up his price, but if he is truly interested, the Yankees should make a serious attempt to sign him.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 06:16 PM
I personally think Giles' agent is using the Yankees to drive up his price, but if he is truly interested, the Yankees should make a serious attempt to sign him.

Why wouldnt Giles want to come here? Does he fall under the notorious 'doesn't want/scared to play in New York' category?

AMYanks
11-14-05, 06:37 PM
Why wouldnt Giles want to come here? Does he fall under the notorious 'doesn't want/scared to play in New York' category?

He prefers the West Coast.

Wang's Groundballs
11-14-05, 06:56 PM
Yes it does. Giles is a better hitter than Matsui, so I predict that he'll hit better with RISP.

You know what I mean, wanker.

Rich
11-14-05, 07:02 PM
He prefers the West Coast.

I think he prefers the color of money.

Sam18
11-14-05, 07:14 PM
Never have understood this one. IT'S NOT OUR MONEY. If George wants to spend on free agents (as long as they are good, of course), who are we to care if the entire team is FA's? (Of course, I am talking semi-long term signings of guys that can play out their contracts--a complete roster make-over every year would be boring).

Put another way...I get the exact same satisfaction seeing ARod win the MVP, as I would a "home grown" Yankee. Once they have the uniform on....

In all honesty, while I am very pleased for ARod and the Yanks, if we never won another MVP, but won WS every 4 years or so, I would be very happy.

Lou its not that, I could care less if oir team was all freeagents too but homegrown talent is cheap and the Yankees do have a limit on their payroll.

Jace
11-14-05, 07:38 PM
You know what I mean, wanker.

Not to be off topic or anything, but seriously I've been really looking forward to when you two would go head to head, cause I mean I Love Wang's Groundballs too.

AMYanks
11-14-05, 07:52 PM
I think he prefers the color of money.

Well, obviously. But the West Coast would probably be the only reason he didn't come here.

Rich
11-14-05, 07:54 PM
Well, obviously. But the West Coast would probably be the only reason he didn't come here.

If the Yankees want him as much as some of us do, he will come.

YankeePride1967
11-14-05, 07:58 PM
I personally think Giles' agent is using the Yankees to drive up his price, but if he is truly interested, the Yankees should make a serious attempt to sign him.

Bingo. First the Yanks were on his no-trade list and along the way we hear that he doesn't want to come to NY, now all of a sudden we are near his "top of his list". I"m sure when he signs with St. Louis or whatever team he ends up with, the Yanks will be back on his no-trade list.

27IsNext
11-14-05, 09:12 PM
Bingo. First the Yanks were on his no-trade list and along the way we hear that he doesn't want to come to NY, now all of a sudden we are near his "top of his list". I"m sure when he signs with St. Louis or whatever team he ends up with, the Yanks will be back on his no-trade list.

Boy I hope we're both wrong. If we signed him and Matsui, we would have soooooooo much leverage in trade proposals. We could package Sheff for a CFer, and demand that teams stop imposing the Yankee tax on us. If they refuse, then we just plug in Hideki in CF. I'm sure teams would just love for us to have an offensive outfield of Giles, Matsui, and Sheff.

Okay, I went waaaay overboard, but you get the gist.

YankeePride1967
11-14-05, 09:18 PM
Boy I hope we're both wrong. If we signed him and Matsui, we would have soooooooo much leverage in trade proposals. We could package Sheff for a CFer, and demand that teams stop imposing the Yankee tax on us. If they refuse, then we just plug in Hideki in CF. I'm sure teams would just love for us to have an offensive outfield of Giles, Matsui, and Sheff.

Okay, I went waaaay overboard, but you get the gist.

So do I. But it would be foolish of ANY free agent to say he doesn't want to play in NY (or even Boston for that matter). Take those teams out and that brings the value of their deal down.

JapanJobbers
11-14-05, 09:30 PM
If the Yankees want him as much as some of us do, he will come.

Maybe, but he would then be vastly overpaid. I really think that's the only way the Yankees could get him.

JMAN74
11-14-05, 10:04 PM
Bingo. First the Yanks were on his no-trade list and along the way we hear that he doesn't want to come to NY, now all of a sudden we are near his "top of his list". I"m sure when he signs with St. Louis or whatever team he ends up with, the Yanks will be back on his no-trade list.

Hmmmm I forgot about that. If we were on his no-trade list when we were playing well (the last decade really LOL) then I doubt he has a change of heart.

ICEBERG18
11-14-05, 10:51 PM
-MATSUI AND GILES, OUR CUP RUNNETH OVER-

Traditionally, the Yankees are the only team that doesn't completely close up shop during the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving, so it is possible that there will be some big news out of the Bronx one of these days. Not much has been happening recently, though, except for the continuing Matsui negotiations. One expects these will come to a happy end, though it won't be a disaster for the Yankees if they don't. Three years of Matsui is probably just enough to get what he has left. Four years and the team may get into some negative returns.

Keep in mind that Matsui is a queer duck of a player. He isn't exactly a pure power hitter from 2004 to 2005 he traded eight home runs for 11 doubles and he hits for good averages, but he's not a candidate to win the batting title. Or maybe he is he's added to his average all three years he's been in the American bigs. He's had a 25-walk swing in two straight seasons. We don't know what he'll do. It's as if he can do so many things that he selectively emphasizes certain facets at the expense of others. If any one aspect of his game fades slightly, Matsui will be dramatically less valuable, because the power won't carry him without the batting average and vice versa, and his glove is not a reason to keep him in the lineup.

In the short term, of course, he's still a good bet.

Brian Giles is a good one too, and the suggestion that the Yankees might be taking a serious look at signing both players is a good one. Assuming Gary Sheffield remains, and Sheffield's history of cranky walk years is a good argument for moving him, a fine outfield/DH rotation is in the offing. There isn't a real center fielder among them. Speaking of which, it's not clear where the idea of Juan Pierre being a good center fielder came from. He isn't. Just because a player is fast doesn't mean he's a good glove.

http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp

JMAN74
11-15-05, 02:55 AM
on second thought...give me ABREU , a cup of coffee, and we'll be good to go.


I'll take him over Giles, who's older, more of an injury risk, and hasn't for whatever reason been as good as he used to be the last few years. Not too mention he may be scared of the New york spotlight (putting us on is no-trade in the past).

I dont know what we'd have to give up for Abreu, but rumor has it Phillies want to shed his salary bad. I dont think he'd be cheap but he's one of the few guys out there Id give up a prime prospect or two for (preferably a hitter though).

ring403
11-15-05, 06:22 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/15/sports/baseball/15yanks.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1132056601-zfXk6VX0CHqPxDnsKzkBPA
Cashman has also spoken several times with Joe Bick, the agent for outfielder Brian Giles of the Padres. Giles has played 300 career games in center field, but just 36 over the last four years. He has played right field the last two seasons and was an everyday left fielder before that. He is apparently more than a fallback option if Matsui leaves.

"I don't know what their plans are on how it would all hash out in terms of who plays where," Bick said. "I certainly think they have genuine interest in both players."

The left-handed Giles appeals to the Yankees because of his exceptional ability to get on base and his extra-base power. Giles, who turns 35 in January, could probably command at least a three-year deal.

Signing Giles for three years would probably be more appealing to the Yankees than giving Boston's Johnny Damon, also a free agent, the five-year deal he wants.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/365615p-311374c.html
Giles, who played the last two-plus seasons with the Padres, is exactly the sort of player that top Yankee evaluators covet. In 11 seasons, the 34-year-old has a .413 on-base percentage with 902 walks against 631 strikeouts.

"Brian is flattered by the Yankees' interest," said Giles' agent, Joe Bick, who spoke with Cashman briefly yesterday. "He is still listening to all the information and just wants to consider everything before making a decision."

The biggest drawback to Giles is that he's spent the majority of his career at one of the corner outfield spots (though he's played 300 games in center, too) and, according to some executives, wouldn't be the strong defensive upgrade the Yanks are seeking in Bernie Williams' replacement.

Yankees1962
11-15-05, 07:16 AM
Is it possible the Yankees are trying to fly low under radar for Giles?

Yanks Lifer
11-15-05, 07:39 AM
-MATSUI AND GILES, OUR CUP RUNNETH OVER-

Traditionally, the Yankees are the only team that doesn't completely close up shop during the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving, so it is possible that there will be some big news out of the Bronx one of these days. Not much has been happening recently, though, except for the continuing Matsui negotiations. One expects these will come to a happy end, though it won't be a disaster for the Yankees if they don't. Three years of Matsui is probably just enough to get what he has left. Four years and the team may get into some negative returns.

Keep in mind that Matsui is a queer duck of a player. He isn't exactly a pure power hitter from 2004 to 2005 he traded eight home runs for 11 doubles and he hits for good averages, but he's not a candidate to win the batting title. Or maybe he is he's added to his average all three years he's been in the American bigs. He's had a 25-walk swing in two straight seasons. We don't know what he'll do. It's as if he can do so many things that he selectively emphasizes certain facets at the expense of others. If any one aspect of his game fades slightly, Matsui will be dramatically less valuable, because the power won't carry him without the batting average and vice versa, and his glove is not a reason to keep him in the lineup.

In the short term, of course, he's still a good bet.

Brian Giles is a good one too, and the suggestion that the Yankees might be taking a serious look at signing both players is a good one. Assuming Gary Sheffield remains, and Sheffield's history of cranky walk years is a good argument for moving him, a fine outfield/DH rotation is in the offing. There isn't a real center fielder among them. Speaking of which, it's not clear where the idea of Juan Pierre being a good center fielder came from. He isn't. Just because a player is fast doesn't mean he's a good glove.

http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp

It will be interesting to see where cashman turns next assuming the Matusi deal gets done. An OF of Matsui, Giles, Sheff and Crosby (possibly Wilkerson)
is very appealing since resting the first 3 at DH once a week will keep them fresher. IF, and it's a big if, Giles is truly interested in NY Cashman may try to strike while the iron is hot and seriously step up the negotiations with Giles and Ryan very soon.

It would be great to have those pieces done by early December then add some smaller pieces to the pen if needed the rest of the way.

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-15-05, 08:40 AM
Is it possible the Yankees are trying to fly low under radar for Giles?

Honestly, I"m not sure what the Yankees are truely thinking. Giles does give them several interesting options. The first assumption is Matsui signs today. After that, if the Yankees are still interested in Giles, they will have flexibility to sign him and play either him or Matsui in center. Neither is a great option, but realistically, what are the centerfield options the Yankees have right now?

1) Damon, at a 5 year deal and the same terrible arm that Bernie has
2) Bradley on the cheap, but he's a kook who is as liable to end up in jail or on the DL as help the team
3) A very available Pierre, but the team seems to have soured on him
4) Cameron, who will cost more than it's worth to get
5) Furcal experiment, too costly to try
6) Soriano, again, will cost alot in a trade and an experiment
7) Bubba Crosby

None are very enjoyable at this point. The Yankees might figure that Matsui/Giles will be a stopgap for a year. By next year, Sheffield is off the team so Giles can move back to right field and then you see what is available for centerfielders in 2007 (Andreuw Jones, Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron...maybe Melky matures, all come to mind). I first thought this was a negotiating ploy by the Yankees with Giles, but after looking at the situation and what is on the horizon, Giles could very well be a bigger part of the plan than just a smokescreen.

Fabien Brandy
11-15-05, 09:19 AM
Hmmmm I forgot about that. If we were on his no-trade list when we were playing well (the last decade really LOL) then I doubt he has a change of heart.
Actually, players often put the big market teams on their no-trade lists only because its the big market teams that are likely to try to trade for them and therefore the player will have leverage because he then has to waive it for the trade to happen (i.e. it's a very good strategy for turning a partial no-trade clause into a defacto full no-trade clause).

(Not saying that's the case with Giles, but its pretty common and makes sense.)

AMYanks
11-15-05, 01:48 PM
Please, PLEASE sign Giles.

DJ27
11-15-05, 03:16 PM
Please, PLEASE sign Giles.

Sounds good to me. Heck, play him in right, Bubba in center, and DH Sheff.
Jeter, Giles, Sheff, Giambi, MVP, Matsui, Cano, Posada, Bubba (not bad!).

Martini6196
11-15-05, 03:16 PM
Honestly, I"m not sure what the Yankees are truely thinking. Giles does give them several interesting options. The first assumption is Matsui signs today. After that, if the Yankees are still interested in Giles, they will have flexibility to sign him and play either him or Matsui in center. Neither is a great option, but realistically, what are the centerfield options the Yankees have right now?

1) Damon, at a 5 year deal and the same terrible arm that Bernie has
2) Bradley on the cheap, but he's a kook who is as liable to end up in jail or on the DL as help the team
3) A very available Pierre, but the team seems to have soured on him
4) Cameron, who will cost more than it's worth to get
5) Furcal experiment, too costly to try
6) Soriano, again, will cost alot in a trade and an experiment
7) Bubba Crosby

None are very enjoyable at this point. The Yankees might figure that Matsui/Giles will be a stopgap for a year. By next year, Sheffield is off the team so Giles can move back to right field and then you see what is available for centerfielders in 2007 (Andreuw Jones, Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron...maybe Melky matures, all come to mind). I first thought this was a negotiating ploy by the Yankees with Giles, but after looking at the situation and what is on the horizon, Giles could very well be a bigger part of the plan than just a smokescreen.

I think you raise a real good point with this post. Giles may have to play out of position this year but Sheff is done after this season so he would be able to move back to his original position. Torre could use a rotation of Giles/Matsui/Sheff/Crosby in the outfield and be able to give each of the three starting outfielders days at the DH here and there when Crosby plays the field.

DJ27
11-15-05, 03:19 PM
Honestly, I"m not sure what the Yankees are truely thinking. Giles does give them several interesting options. The first assumption is Matsui signs today. After that, if the Yankees are still interested in Giles, they will have flexibility to sign him and play either him or Matsui in center. Neither is a great option, but realistically, what are the centerfield options the Yankees have right now?

1) Damon, at a 5 year deal and the same terrible arm that Bernie has
2) Bradley on the cheap, but he's a kook who is as liable to end up in jail or on the DL as help the team
3) A very available Pierre, but the team seems to have soured on him
4) Cameron, who will cost more than it's worth to get
5) Furcal experiment, too costly to try
6) Soriano, again, will cost alot in a trade and an experiment
7) Bubba Crosby

None are very enjoyable at this point. The Yankees might figure that Matsui/Giles will be a stopgap for a year. By next year, Sheffield is off the team so Giles can move back to right field and then you see what is available for centerfielders in 2007 (Andreuw Jones, Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron...maybe Melky matures, all come to mind). I first thought this was a negotiating ploy by the Yankees with Giles, but after looking at the situation and what is on the horizon, Giles could very well be a bigger part of the plan than just a smokescreen.

Great post! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

BJG
11-15-05, 03:33 PM
Honestly, I"m not sure what the Yankees are truely thinking. Giles does give them several interesting options. The first assumption is Matsui signs today. After that, if the Yankees are still interested in Giles, they will have flexibility to sign him and play either him or Matsui in center. Neither is a great option, but realistically, what are the centerfield options the Yankees have right now?

1) Damon, at a 5 year deal and the same terrible arm that Bernie has
2) Bradley on the cheap, but he's a kook who is as liable to end up in jail or on the DL as help the team
3) A very available Pierre, but the team seems to have soured on him
4) Cameron, who will cost more than it's worth to get
5) Furcal experiment, too costly to try
6) Soriano, again, will cost alot in a trade and an experiment
7) Bubba Crosby

None are very enjoyable at this point. The Yankees might figure that Matsui/Giles will be a stopgap for a year. By next year, Sheffield is off the team so Giles can move back to right field and then you see what is available for centerfielders in 2007 (Andreuw Jones, Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron...maybe Melky matures, all come to mind). I first thought this was a negotiating ploy by the Yankees with Giles, but after looking at the situation and what is on the horizon, Giles could very well be a bigger part of the plan than just a smokescreen.

1. You left out Jaque Jones, Brad Wilkerson, Aaron Rowand, Ryan Church, 6-year minor league free agents who are better than Bubba, and so on.

2. If the Yankees sign Matsui, they still have 2 spots to fill, not just one: CF and, ostensibly, DH (though they would be better off with a regular fielder who allows them to rotate the DH spot rather than a full-time DH).

JMAN74
11-15-05, 04:06 PM
1. You left out Jaque Jones, Brad Wilkerson, Aaron Rowand, Ryan Church, 6-year minor league free agents who are better than Bubba, and so on.

2. If the Yankees sign Matsui, they still have 2 spots to fill, not just one: CF and, ostensibly, DH (though they would be better off with a regular fielder who allows them to rotate the DH spot rather than a full-time DH).


#2 could very well be Giles. He gives us a fallback and leverage in negotiations for CF. But in no way does that stop our search for a great defensive CF.

Also it would allow us to persue a Furcal or Soriano (try them in CF with Giles/Matsui as a fallback option) OR give us flexibilty to trade a Sheff or Cano.

JMAN74
11-15-05, 04:10 PM
Actually, players often put the big market teams on their no-trade lists only because its the big market teams that are likely to try to trade for them and therefore the player will have leverage because he then has to waive it for the trade to happen (i.e. it's a very good strategy for turning a partial no-trade clause into a defacto full no-trade clause).

(Not saying that's the case with Giles, but its pretty common and makes sense.)

vry intriguing point I never really thought/heard of. However I wonder if that is the case here (seems more likely to be otherwise).

ring403
11-15-05, 09:08 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20051115&content_id=1268795&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

Brian Giles could be the team's top choice on the free agent market, as Johnny Damon and Preston Wilson don't impress the Yankees.

Cashman has spoken with Giles' agent, Joe Bick, almost a half-dozen times since the free agent period began, expressing interest in the two-time All-Star.

Giles has played just 300 of his 1,351 career games in center, though the Yankees could move Matsui, who played center field for most of his career in Japan, to center and use Giles in left.

"We've had ongoing productive conversations and I'm sure we'll continue to do so," Bick said. "In the first conversation we had, [Cashman] asked me if Brian had a position preference, and I said no. Brian Giles doesn't care where he plays. That part of it is a non-issue."

I Love Wang
11-15-05, 09:23 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20051115&content_id=1268795&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

I'm aroused.

ICEBERG18
11-15-05, 09:48 PM
The Yankees were discouraged by Scott Boras' asking price of $84 million over seven years for Johnny Damon, so they will look seriously at signing Brian Giles with the thought of using a rotation in centerfield.

The Yankees are thinking about offering Giles, 34, close to $30 million for three years, but they want to investigate whether he seriously will consider coming to New York, a person familiar with the situation said.

Although signing Giles would add a much-needed small-ball type of player to the Yankees' lineup -- he reaches base often, runs the bases well and hits a ton of doubles -- he is not a true centerfielder, having started only 30 games there in the past five years.

Giles, however, "has no preference where he plays," agent Joe Bick said.

The Yankees don't won't to use Matsui as their everyday centerfielder, but he likely would be part of the rotation if they sign Giles. Matsui's contract brings him through his 35th birthday.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1116,0,4514237.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Espinosa's Glasses
11-15-05, 09:52 PM
dream come true... COME ON!

AMYanks
11-15-05, 09:55 PM
This is beautiful. Let's do it, Cash.

27IsNext
11-15-05, 10:05 PM
Our offense would be sick if he were in our outfield.

The defense would suck, but we were able to get to the playoffs with an outfield of Matsui, Bernie, and Sheff. Plus, we could always just package Sheff for a CFer and some BP help.

MassNYYfan
11-15-05, 10:05 PM
Go get him, Cash!!!

I Love Wang
11-15-05, 10:11 PM
I am serious about this: If we sign Brian Giles, to give us a lineup of Matsui, Giles, and Sheffield, I will send my girlfriend to Cashman, and offer her as his concubine.

ieddyi
11-15-05, 10:18 PM
Looking at some of Giles situational stats- he's awesome

With all the variations of 2 men on, his ops is over 1.100- 1.30 w/ 1st and third

Scoring position w/ 2 out- 1.100

His OPS+ last year was 148

I hope he isn't jsut using us for leverage- he'd be fantastic

ring403
11-15-05, 10:20 PM
The question remains whether Giles is really interested in playing in New York, or is just using the Yankees to drive his pricetag up with San Diego and St. Louis.

I Love Wang
11-15-05, 10:22 PM
The question remains whether Giles is really interested in playing in New York, or is just using the Yankees to drive his pricetag up with San Diego and St. Louis.

He'd better be, or I'm putting a hit out on him.

njdhockey
11-15-05, 10:22 PM
I'm ok with giving Giles 3 years but 3 only. I don't want to risk him declining in the middle of a big contract. His OBP SLG and OPS are so damn good I think he is worth a shot despite his age.

JeffWeaverFan
11-15-05, 10:23 PM
I am serious about this: If we sign Brian Giles, to give us a lineup of Matsui, Giles, and Sheffield, I will send my girlfriend to Cashman, and offer her as his concubine.
If we also sign BJ Ryan and Kyle Farnsworth, I will add my girlfriend to that and we will see if the law allows it to happen.

JeffWeaverFan
11-15-05, 10:24 PM
I'm ok with giving Giles 3 years but 3 only. I don't want to risk him declining in the middle of a big contract. His OBP SLG and OPS are so damn good I think he is worth a shot despite his age.
Defintiely. But, I'd offer him as much as 3/$33-$36 in that deal.

JDPNYY
11-15-05, 10:26 PM
Listen here... I want Cashman working the phones... not playing with yours guys'es girlfriends.

SINCE77 2
11-15-05, 10:34 PM
#1. Is he really interested?
#2. How much would he cost?
#3. Do we have to sign another OF to fulfill the idea of an outfield rotation? Wilkerson/Jones (ok BJG)/Chavez??? come to mind

porsche986
11-15-05, 10:43 PM
The question remains whether Giles is really interested in playing in New York, or is just using the Yankees to drive his pricetag up with San Diego and St. Louis.

Plus, it seems like his agent tells the same thing to everyone:


"We've been having conversations and there's certainly interest on our part,'' Bick said of the Jays yesterday, adding that roughly a dozen teams have spoken to him about his 34-year-old client. "I want to give everybody who has interest a chance to put something forward. There's certainly no timetable on our part, but I would think we have a pretty good chance of getting something done with somebody prior to the winter meetings.'

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1132008612147&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

Plus it looks like the <a href="http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3207672">Dodgers are going to make an offer soon</a>. I am sure we will be hearing alot more comments like this, especially now that Matsui has given him an automatic raise in pay.

yanksphan
11-15-05, 10:46 PM
especially now that Matsui has given him an automatic raise in pay.

Matsui's Nov 15 deadline helped all of the FA OFs this offseason for sure. They all knew it was up to the Yankees to set the bar - and that can only be a good thing for everyone else (Jones, Damon, Giles - hell even Preston Wilson will probably get a hefty check next year).

surge511
11-15-05, 10:48 PM
Matsui's Nov 15 deadline helped all of the FA OFs this offseason for sure. They all knew it was up to the Yankees to set the bar - and that can only be a good thing for everyone else (Jones, Damon, Giles - hell even Preston Wilson will probably get a hefty check next year).

Exactly right. Now that Matsui set the price, Giles will probably want 14 million per. Will he accept a 3 year/42 mill deal to play for the Yanks? I would not go that much higher. Hopefully, they don't get sucked into giving a 4th year.

I Love Wang
11-15-05, 11:04 PM
Exactly right. Now that Matsui set the price, Giles will probably want 14 million per. Will he accept a 3 year/42 mill deal to play for the Yanks? I would not go that much higher. Hopefully, they don't get sucked into giving a 4th year.

Giles won't get more than Matsui. His perceived value isn't as high, because he's been playing in small markets his entire career, and he was in an extreme pitchers' park last year. To boot, his best skill is walking, and thats hardly something that gets you big money thrown at you.

dabomb2045
11-15-05, 11:16 PM
Giles won't get more than Matsui. His perceived value isn't as high, because he's been playing in small markets his entire career, and he was in an extreme pitchers' park last year. To boot, his best skill is walking, and thats hardly something that gets you big money thrown at you.

Giles would be the ultimate #2 hitter in our lineup....with Jeter leading off (.380+ OBP) and Giles #2 (.423 OBP last year)....just think of how many more AB's with RISP ARod, Sheff and Matsui will get

Im not sure if Giles is really interested in NY....but we need to make him an offer and find out

ppa79
11-16-05, 07:41 AM
Im not sure if Giles is really interested in NY....but we need to make him an offer and find out

So lets make him an offer that he can't refuse. :D

Snatch Catch
11-16-05, 08:17 AM
Giles won't get more than Matsui. His perceived value isn't as high, because he's been playing in small markets his entire career, and he was in an extreme pitchers' park last year. To boot, his best skill is walking, and thats hardly something that gets you big money thrown at you.

I'm not really sure that Giles best skill is walking.

I'd be more inclined to say that it's something like "out avoidence" or "contact."

The guy was something like 7th or 8th in the NL last year in lowest percentage of swing and misses at a pitch.

He had just about a 2:1 BB/K rate.

He's more than just someone who walks a lot.

Sam18
11-16-05, 10:16 AM
PLease, please, please let this happen...

MiamiKat
11-16-05, 10:36 AM
PLease, please, please let this happen...Yup. The more I learn about Giles (I admit I'm nowhere near as up on the NL as some here are), the more I want this guy in Yankee pinstripes.

Sierra Mist
11-16-05, 10:38 AM
I really dont want Giles as a Yankee. If we need an everyday outfielder we cant get someone who is 35, isnt Sheffield like 37 now??? We need a younger guy in the OF. Also if the Yanks did get Sosa it would be for DH/PH.

Sam18
11-16-05, 10:44 AM
I really dont want Giles as a Yankee. If we need an everyday outfielder we cant get someone who is 35, isnt Sheffield like 37 now??? We need a younger guy in the OF. Also if the Yanks did get Sosa it would be for DH/PH.

Please everyone, don't take this bait!

noneckwilliams
11-16-05, 10:45 AM
I really dont want Giles as a Yankee. If we need an everyday outfielder we cant get someone who is 35, isnt Sheffield like 37 now??? We need a younger guy in the OF. Also if the Yanks did get Sosa it would be for DH/PH.

I'm not crazy about the idea of adding Giles either (although I'm less opposed to it in addition to Matsui rather than replacing Matsui). How does acquiring BG make them younger, better defensively or more flexible payroll wise?

I'm just sick and tired of the lack of range in the OF and Giles does not solve that problem - in fact he will worsen it.

Kulish29
11-16-05, 10:45 AM
The Yankees were discouraged by Scott Boras' asking price of $84 million over seven years for Johnny Damon, so they will look seriously at signing Brian Giles with the thought of using a rotation in centerfield.

7 years, 84 million?

Hahahahaha. :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

Sam18
11-16-05, 10:48 AM
7 years, 84 million?

Hahahahaha. :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

We should pretend to have interest just to drive up that price.

Mark19
11-16-05, 10:55 AM
If you figure that we just signed Matsui for $13 million per season, we are talking to Giles who will cost at least $9-10 million per season, we will devote at least $15-18 million on relievers this year and we still need to build a bench.

With all of the backloaded contracts that get a bump next season, do you guys actually think our payroll will go down in a significant way?

Jace
11-16-05, 10:56 AM
Giles won't get more than Matsui. His perceived value isn't as high, because he's been playing in small markets his entire career, and he was in an extreme pitchers' park last year. To boot, his best skill is walking, and thats hardly something that gets you big money thrown at you.

With the number of teams interested in Giles, I think we all may be surprised by his contract. In any case, I don't think most GMs today are completely oblivious to the importance of OBP and OPS+ rather than straight batting average. There are exceptions obviously, but its not the rule anymore.

JP. Ricciardi and whoever runs the Red Sox probably see his true value. It sounds like the Yankees see his value. St. Louis probably does too. There is just too much competition, I doubt he will be signed for less than 3/36 and definitely not less than 3/33.

Sam18
11-16-05, 11:00 AM
If you figure that we just signed Matsui for $13 million per season, we are talking to Giles who will cost at least $9-10 million per season, we will devote at least $15-18 million on relievers this year and we still need to build a bench.

With all of the backloaded contracts that get a bump next season, do you guys actually think our payroll will go down in a significant way?

Our payroll isn't going down until Jeter, Giambi, Mussina and RJ are gone. We dug ourselves this hole and are gonna have to wait to get out.

THEBOSS84
11-16-05, 11:02 AM
Wow I must say that going into the offseason, I thought our payroll would certianly go down. After this Matsui signing and our apparently realistic interest in Giles - who by the way will go for ATLEAST $12 mil annualy(thanks to the Matsui contract setting the market), you gotta beleive that our payroll will be as high if not higher than last year come opening day.
Assuming we sign Giles (no lock by any stretch), we still have to sign an entire bullpen, and some important peices on the bench.

Payroll will be over $200 mil yet again...

Sam18
11-16-05, 11:04 AM
Wow I must say that going into the offseason, I thought our payroll would certianly go down. After this Matsui signing and our apparently realistic interest in Giles - who by the way will go for ATLEAST $12 mil annualy(thanks to the Matsui contract setting the market), you gotta beleive that our payroll will be as high if not higher than last year come opening day.
Assuming we sign Giles (no lock by any stretch), we still have to sign an entire bullpen, and some important peices on the bench.

Payroll will be over $200 mil yet again...

A much better 200 mil spent than last year.

THEBOSS84
11-16-05, 11:07 AM
A much better 200 mil spent than last year.

Seriously, I'm getting excited thinking about what Giles can bring to this lineup - it's a crazy thought to think what this lineup would be like with an additional .400 obp added - nuts just flat out nuts...

Sam18
11-16-05, 11:09 AM
Seriously, I'm getting excited thinking about what Giles can bring to this lineup - it's a crazy thought to think what this lineup would be like with an additional .400 obp added - nuts just flat out nuts...

Its not just the OBP, its another guy who works the count and tires out the pitcher.

whalers
11-16-05, 11:14 AM
W
Payroll will be over $200 mil yet again...

What does this matter to you. People who hate the Yankees will always hate the Yankees. If its not the payroll they will find something else.

ShaneTravis
11-16-05, 11:32 AM
Its not just the OBP, its another guy who works the count and tires out the pitcher.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/news.asp?news_id=1508

Giles will be 35 in 2006, he's not a great glove, just an average one, but he can still hit a lot. His .301/.423/.483 percentages are plenty good on the surface, but they look even better when the hit he took for playing in San Diego's Petco. The "PET" in "Petco" stands for "Pitchers' EnvironmenT." Giles hit .267/.378/.417 at home, .333/.463/.545 on the road. He also saw 3.92 pitches per plate appearance. He's the Anti-Cano. The more Anti-Canos a team has, the faster they get to face Jesus Colome.

ppa79
11-16-05, 12:18 PM
Our payroll isn't going down until Jeter, Giambi, Mussina and RJ are gone. We dug ourselves this hole and are gonna have to wait to get out.

Yup. Jeter ~20M, Giambi ~20M, Arod ~20M, Mussia ~19M, RJ ~16M, thats about 95M in contracts for only 5 players. Until these guys come off the books the Yankee team salary will never go down.

Yankees1962
11-16-05, 12:36 PM
Yup. Jeter ~20M, Giambi ~20M, Arod ~20M, Mussia ~19M, RJ ~16M, thats about 95M in contracts for only 5 players. Until these guys come off the books the Yankee team salary will never go down.
Yes, it will.....

NewEraYanks2527
11-16-05, 12:38 PM
Yup. The more I learn about Giles (I admit I'm nowhere near as up on the NL as some here are), the more I want this guy in Yankee pinstripes.
I'm with you on that one.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 12:52 PM
I'm not really sure that Giles best skill is walking.

I'd be more inclined to say that it's something like "out avoidence" or "contact."

The guy was something like 7th or 8th in the NL last year in lowest percentage of swing and misses at a pitch.

He had just about a 2:1 BB/K rate.

He's more than just someone who walks a lot.

I didn't say his only skill was walking, but it certainly seems to be his most developed skill. He did lead the majors in walks. He had a good batting average, and he doesn't strike out, and I love both of those things. He'll also have more power if he moves into a new park that is more condusive to his type of swing (ie, Yankee Stadium), but the fact is he's still a walk-heavy guy. I suspect that, if he's the Yankees #2 hitter next year, you'll see Giles walk around 90 times. Being moved into a real lineup will knock his walks down a bit, but he's always been exceptional at it, and will remain so.

JfromJersey
11-16-05, 01:13 PM
I really like Giles and I hope his agent isn't just using the Yankees for leverage in negotiations with other teams.

Sam18
11-16-05, 01:30 PM
Yes, it will.....

Care to explain?

JWHIII
11-16-05, 02:23 PM
A defensive outfield of Matsui, Giles, and Sheffield is less than ideal to say the least. There would be alot of extra baserunners were that the case.

njdhockey
11-16-05, 02:31 PM
What is everyones impressions of Giles defense? How bad could it be, I haven't seen him play much. What is his UZR? (feel free to substitute a more accurate defensive stat if applicable)

apolansk
11-16-05, 03:00 PM
Yup. Jeter ~20M, Giambi ~20M, Arod ~20M, Mussia ~19M, RJ ~16M, thats about 95M in contracts for only 5 players. Until these guys come off the books the Yankee team salary will never go down.

We only pay Arod 16 per, and Moose comes off after this year, so thats more then 25 mil gone right there.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 03:09 PM
A defensive outfield of Matsui, Giles, and Sheffield is less than ideal to say the least. There would be alot of extra baserunners were that the case.

Its better than the Matsui/Williams/Sheffiled setup that was commonplace last year, and Giles offensive prowess is such that he more than makes up for any defensive shortcomings.

whalers
11-16-05, 03:14 PM
Its better than the Matsui/Williams/Sheffiled setup that was commonplace last year, and Giles offensive prowess is such that he more than makes up for any defensive shortcomings.

If the Yankees land Giles I think we will see a rotation of the following defensive setups:

LF Matsui
CF Bubba
RF Giles
DH Sheff
1B Giambi

LF Matsui/Giles
CF Giles/Matusi
RF Sheff
DH Giambi
1B Phillips

JWHIII
11-16-05, 03:17 PM
Its better than the Matsui/Williams/Sheffiled setup that was commonplace last year, and Giles offensive prowess is such that he more than makes up for any defensive shortcomings.
Agreed, but wasn't that one of the problems with last years Yankee team. Giles is an attractive name, but I think the Yankees would be better off with a cheaper and better defensive centerfielder.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 03:20 PM
Agreed, but wasn't that one of the problems with last years Yankee team. Giles is an attractive name, but I think the Yankees would be better off with a cheaper and better defensive centerfielder.

Giles is a better overall player than any other OFer the Yankees could acquire. The runs he would produce on offense would far more than make up for any extra runs an OF of Giles/Matsui/Sheffield would give up over an outfield of Matsui/someCF/Sheffield.

nyctalopia
11-16-05, 05:08 PM
Let's add in the supposed three-team trade that will land Aaron Rowand in the Bronx. Presumptions at this point are that Sheffield or a ML ready pitcher may be shipped to another team for prospects that will be sent to Chicago for Rowand (all just rumors of course ... but heck, this is the Hot Stove!). That would give us an outfield of Matsui in left, Rowand in center, and Giles in right. The production increases and the defense is light-years better than last year. How great would this be?

And imagine if we send Pavano/Wright away to complete this deal instead of Sheffield. We'll keep him as our DH and part-time OF to spot Matsui and Giles. Yes it would mean that Giambi will play probably 140 games at 1B, but with Matsui, Giles, Rowand, and Sheffield, giving Giambi a day off here or there wouldn't hurt our offense at all.

SS Jeter
RF Giles
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
DH Sheffield
LF Matsui
CF Rowand
C Posada
2B Cano

AMYanks
11-16-05, 05:15 PM
Let's add in the supposed three-team trade that will land Aaron Rowand in the Bronx. Presumptions at this point are that Sheffield or a ML ready pitcher may be shipped to another team for prospects that will be sent to Chicago for Rowand (all just rumors of course ... but heck, this is the Hot Stove!). That would give us an outfield of Matsui in left, Rowand in center, and Giles in right. The production increases and the defense is light-years better than last year. How great would this be?

And imagine if we send Pavano/Wright away to complete this deal instead of Sheffield. We'll keep him as our DH and part-time OF to spot Matsui and Giles. Yes it would mean that Giambi will play probably 140 games at 1B, but with Matsui, Giles, Rowand, and Sheffield, giving Giambi a day off here or there wouldn't hurt our offense at all.

SS Jeter
RF Giles
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
DH Sheffield
LF Matsui
CF Rowand
C Posada
2B Cano

That's beautiful

YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 05:19 PM
Let's add in the supposed three-team trade that will land Aaron Rowand in the Bronx. Presumptions at this point are that Sheffield or a ML ready pitcher may be shipped to another team for prospects that will be sent to Chicago for Rowand (all just rumors of course ... but heck, this is the Hot Stove!). That would give us an outfield of Matsui in left, Rowand in center, and Giles in right. The production increases and the defense is light-years better than last year. How great would this be?

And imagine if we send Pavano/Wright away to complete this deal instead of Sheffield. We'll keep him as our DH and part-time OF to spot Matsui and Giles. Yes it would mean that Giambi will play probably 140 games at 1B, but with Matsui, Giles, Rowand, and Sheffield, giving Giambi a day off here or there wouldn't hurt our offense at all.

SS Jeter
RF Giles
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
DH Sheffield
LF Matsui
CF Rowand
C Posada
2B Cano

That would be my ideal starting 9. But IF we do trade Shef, I would do that ONLY if we got Giles and Rowand (separately of course).

Tifoso
11-16-05, 05:20 PM
That would be my ideal starting 9. But IF we do trade Shef, I would do that ONLY if we got Giles and Rowand (separately of course).

Great looking line up.

Someone up to posting that line-up's stats (either last year, or career)?

H Reyes
11-16-05, 05:38 PM
Since we're all wishfully thinking, I would love to have Vernon Wells manning CF at Yankee Stadium. Wells is only 26 years old and could man the position for the next eight to ten years. It would be great to see a young, athletic guy with a hose for an arm playing CF. Either Vernon or Craig Monroe from the Tigers, another young guy with lots of potential.

Mark19
11-16-05, 05:44 PM
SS Jeter
RF Giles
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
DH Sheffield
LF Matsui
CF Rowand
C Posada
2B Cano

We would have 5 guys who could bat clean up on most other teams. We would have 7 guys who have 25+ HR potential. We would have 4 guys who can steal 15 bases. We would cut the number of defensive question marks on the team from 5 to 3. The lineup would be well-balanced offensive perfection but it won't be cheap.

ppa79
11-16-05, 05:47 PM
And imagine if we send Pavano/Wright away to complete this deal instead of Sheffield. We'll keep him as our DH and part-time OF to spot Matsui and Giles. Yes it would mean that Giambi will play probably 140 games at 1B, but with Matsui, Giles, Rowand, and Sheffield, giving Giambi a day off here or there wouldn't hurt our offense at all.

SS Jeter
RF Giles
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
DH Sheffield
LF Matsui
CF Rowand
C Posada
2B Cano


That's an ideal lineup, but what's your reasoning on why Chicago would take Pavano/Wright instead of Sheffield. One thing Chicago doesn't need is pitching. They are one of the few teams out there with abundant starting pitching. However, Chicago could probably use Sheffield. With Chicago rejecting Thomas's option and the uncertainity with Konerko, a player like Sheffield's offensive capability could be appealing. A player like Sheffield should command more than Rowand.

SINCE77 2
11-16-05, 06:59 PM
Jeter
Wilkerson
Arod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Rowand
Cano
Posada


I'd rather the Yankees go with Wilkerson in RF than Giles. IMO, he's cheaper, younger and might approximate Giles production batting #2 in this lineup. Our defense will be better and Giambi can share DH duties with Sheff.

I Love Wang
11-16-05, 07:11 PM
Jeter
Wilkerson
Arod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Rowand
Cano
Posada


I'd rather the Yankees go with Wilkerson in RF than Giles. IMO, he's cheaper, younger and might approximate Giles production batting #2 in this lineup. Our defense will be better and Giambi can share DH duties with Sheff.

Wilkerson is a nice player, but no one will confuse his production with Giles'. Giles is one of the elite on-base men in all of baseball. Wilkerson is good, but not in this realm.

SINCE77 2
11-16-05, 07:20 PM
Wilkerson is a nice player, but no one will confuse his production with Giles'. Giles is one of the elite on-base men in all of baseball. Wilkerson is good, but not in this realm.


Wilkerson doesn't have to be. IMO we already have one of the top 3 OBP/masher guys in the majors and he plays 1B. We have one of the top overall players in the majors and he plays 3B and one of the most feared hitters in RF. Our LF guy has driven in more runs in his first 3 years with the Yankees than anyone not named Joe DiMaggio. Giles doesn't bring this team anything that it doesn't already have and is more than likely using the Yankees to get a bigger payday on the West Coast. As I have said before, I am a fan of Giles, but his impact would be bigger on a team like the Angels or Toronto who can afford his average defense in return for his offense.

YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 08:14 PM
Wilkerson doesn't have to be. IMO we already have one of the top 3 OBP/masher guys in the majors and he plays 1B. We have one of the top overall players in the majors and he plays 3B and one of the most feared hitters in RF. Our LF guy has driven in more runs in his first 3 years with the Yankees than anyone not named Joe DiMaggio. Giles doesn't bring this team anything that it doesn't already have and is more than likely using the Yankees to get a bigger payday on the West Coast. As I have said before, I am a fan of Giles, but his impact would be bigger on a team like the Angels or Toronto who can afford his average defense in return for his offense.

I believe Giles is using the Yanks to up the ante of whatever deal he signs out west, but the argument that the Yanks should go after the worse player of the two in Wilkerson because they have good offense elsewhere is the equivalent of saying that if offered $50 or $20 we should take the $20.

Sierra Mist
11-16-05, 09:13 PM
Please everyone, don't take this bait!

what are you getting at?? What I said about Giles makes sense, we need a younger OF. Sheffield is already getting up in age and not a good right fielder anymore, Giles would be just another old guy out there. I also mentioned that if Sosa was signed it would not be to play RF because I figured someone would say that Sosa is an old outfielder, and that I wanted him on the team. Anyway I never even said I wanted Sosa on the team, I just asked if anyone thought the Yanks would sign him to a AAA deal. We need someone in their 20's out there who is also an effective player, so we probably need to make a trade.

Sierra Mist
11-16-05, 09:15 PM
How does acquiring BG make them younger, better defensively or more flexible payroll wise?

I'm just sick and tired of the lack of range in the OF and Giles does not solve that problem - in fact he will worsen it.

I said I didnt want Giles on the team because he is older, I agree with you that he is not a problem solver. We need to look in a different direction, I wish I was the GM.

SINCE77 2
11-16-05, 09:16 PM
I believe Giles is using the Yanks to up the ante of whatever deal he signs out west, but the argument that the Yanks should go after the worse player of the two in Wilkerson because they have good offense elsewhere is the equivalent of saying that if offered $50 or $20 we should take the $20.


Question is, what do you have to do for the $50? If you put the 2 players and their stats from the last two years next to one another you will see more similarities than differences. Both will average 80+ walks in the Yankee lineup (Giles 119 last season was due to a lack of threat in the Padres lineup) and have an OBP of about .370-.390. Both will hit 35-40 doubles. Both will hit 20-30 homers in YS. Giles will strike out less, but Wilkerson will play the better defense in all OF spots. Both are well suited to bat in the #2 spot. Giles, over his career is obviously the more refined hitter, but based on the stats of the last few years these guys bring the same thing to the table for 2006. Brad just cost less and just might give us fans a pleasant suprise.

BronxBaumer
11-16-05, 09:17 PM
We need someone in their 20's out there who is also an effective player, so we probably need to make a trade.

Why do we need someone in their 20's? We need someone who can make the most positive contribution with the least amount of cost (both monetary and talent wise), and Giles appears to be it. The problem isn't going after older players, its going after them, especially injury prone types, and throwing ridiculous top dollar contracts at them with way too many seasons involved.

ring403
11-16-05, 09:18 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-matsui&prov=ap&type=lgns
Brian Giles, a free agent who will be 35 next season, is among the players the Yankees are interested in -- for center or left.

"The little I saw of Giles was when he was with Cleveland," Torre said, going back to the late 1990s. "He was an extra player there and looked like a guy who could do some things. I'm talking about added dimension to your ballclub, the fact that he can run, the fact that he's one of those hard-nosed type players."

Joe Bick, Giles' agent, said his client could play a corner outfield spot or center. Giles hasn't played more than 17 games in one season in center since 2001.

"I don't even know what the Yankees' plans are. That's for them to determine. It's not for us to dictate," Bick said. "Brian doesn't care where in the outfield he plays."

YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 09:22 PM
Question is, what do you have to do for the $50? If you put the 2 players and their stats from the last two years next to one another you will see more similarities than differences. Both will average 80+ walks in the Yankee lineup (Giles 119 last season was due to a lack of threat in the Padres lineup) and have an OBP of about .370-.390. Both will hit 35-40 doubles. Both will hit 20-30 homers in YS. Giles will strike out less, but Wilkerson will play the better defense in all OF spots. Both are well suited to bat in the #2 spot. Giles, over his career is obviously the more refined hitter, but based on the stats of the last few years these guys bring the same thing to the table for 2006. Brad just cost less and just might give us fans a pleasant suprise.

I want the better player at the cost of no players (Giles) rather than a worse player at the cost of good prospects (Wilkerson). Our payroll, even with Matsui's re-signing is now $46 million less than it was to end this season. If we get Giles for $11 million that is still $35 million remaining and only the bullpen to address. Our payroll, even with Giles, will be at least $20 million LESS than in 2005 and we will be better. A no brainer. We can afford the money for Giles, we can't afford to further deplete the farm.

Sierra Mist
11-16-05, 09:22 PM
Why do we need someone in their 20's? We need someone who can make the most positive contribution with the least amount of cost (both monetary and talent wise), and Giles appears to be it. The problem isn't going after older players, its going after them, especially injury prone types, and throwing ridiculous top dollar contracts at them with way too many seasons involved.

I read on this site that they may offer Giles 3 yrs/33 mill. I think 11 mill a year is too much for him considering what we pay Sheff and Matsui. We would have an OF making nearly 40 mill, w/ an avg age of 35 (since Sheff is older and Matsui is younger). Our older OF has gotten us into trouble since about 2003 or so, if we didnt have Sheffield than maybe Giles would be a good signing, but having both of them on the team as regular outfielders is a bad move.

BronxBaumer
11-16-05, 09:23 PM
Sheff is gone after next year, then we inject youth, no? Building a team is a slow process

ring403
11-16-05, 09:24 PM
Looks like the Yankees are now going hard after Giles. They have pulled out the Torre card:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/sports/baseball/17yanks.html
If a free agent gets a phone call from Joe Torre, he knows the Yankees are serious. Torre, the Yankees' manager, has made successful recruiting pitches to Mike Mussina, Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano in recent years, and now he is calling Brian Giles.

Giles, most recently of the San Diego Padres, has played only 36 games in center field over the last four years. But the Yankees seem to have decided that Giles can handle the position, and they have made him a priority.

Giles's agent, Joe Bick, confirmed in an e-mail message yesterday that Torre has tried to contact Giles, and that Giles planned to call him back yesterday.

Without naming the players, Torre said he had been asked to contact two free agents so far. The other could be B. J. Ryan, a left-handed closer for the Baltimore Orioles who greatly interests the Yankees as a setup man for Mariano Rivera.

Torre clearly endorsed the signing of Giles, a player he remembered for his speed and versatility from Giles's time with the Cleveland Indians in the late 1990's.

"We're certainly interested, we know that," Torre said. "He could be someone that could fit in."

YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 09:28 PM
Looks like the Yankees are now going hard after Giles. They have pulled out the Torre card:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/sports/baseball/17yanks.html

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Espinosa's Glasses
11-16-05, 09:49 PM
I hope it happens really soon I'll be able to sleep much better...

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-16-05, 09:55 PM
Looks like the Yankees are now going hard after Giles. They have pulled out the Torre card:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/sports/baseball/17yanks.html

Wow, that does add some more certainty to it. If nothing else, Giles has to be thrilled because he's now got the Yankees officially to be interested in him, which just drives up his price. I still wonder if this will happen quickly at all. The Yankees, and most teams, wait until after Dec. 7th, so they know who has been offered arbitration and if there will be a draft pick compensation issue. And even last year, when the Yankees were signing Wright and Pavano, they made agreements in early December, but didn't announce them until late December. SD might actually not offer Giles arbitration because of the Cameron trade, so maybe it is smart to work something out and not announce it until later (Sheffield did this too and the Braves weren't sure if the Yankees had an agreement or not so they didn't offer arbitration to him and the Yankees didn't have to surrender a pick.)

Rich
11-16-05, 09:59 PM
Make it happen, Joe. That's why you're here.

MassNYYfan
11-16-05, 09:59 PM
Looks like the Yankees are now going hard after Giles. They have pulled out the Torre card:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/sports/baseball/17yanks.html


:eek: Wow. I haven't let myself think that they are really that interested in Giles yet. Maybe now I should...:D

Go Joe!

I'm sure people will note this as well:


As the Yankees pursue left-handed relievers in free agency, Brian Cashman says they have an in-house candidate: Matt Smith, a 26-year-old who thrived in his first year as a reliever last season. "He's a legitimate candidate for the bullpen that we'll look at this spring," Cashman said. Smith had 92 strikeouts in 82 1/3 innings last season in Class AA Trenton and Class AAA Columbus

Sam18
11-16-05, 10:11 PM
Joe workin' his off field magic!
Cmon Brian you know you wanna play for Joe.

AMYanks
11-16-05, 10:13 PM
Looks like the Yankees are now going hard after Giles. They have pulled out the Torre card:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/sports/baseball/17yanks.html

Wow... they really want Giles. They have awaken the sleeping giant, to work his recruiting magic.

I love it.:D

Jace
11-16-05, 10:13 PM
Cashman should try the Torre Card on girls too. He has plus recruiting skills...

ICEBERG18
11-16-05, 10:26 PM
"I believe the Yankees would dominate with Johnny Damon on their team," Damon's agent, Scott Boras, said. "The key component is, how do you maximize A-Rod and Jeter? makes A-Rod, Jeter and Matsui better."

Really Scott??????????????

Soriambi
11-16-05, 10:27 PM
It's excellent news that the Yankees seem to be very serious about Giles. Now it's just a matter of convincing him that New York is the best option and getting it done. I'm just happy that they're very interested, as I was afraid that they'd basically ignore him and go after a "traditional" CF instead.

ZYanksRule
11-16-05, 10:42 PM
I really like the idea of getting Giles. I think he is one of the more underrated players in the game.

Dooley Womack
11-16-05, 11:08 PM
Re Giles in center, I'm concerned about balls hit to the left/center gap. With Matsui's and Giles lack of speed, we are talking about an extra base or two or a run scored that would have been prevented by a true CF with speed. Same thing with a ball hit between Sheff and Giles. It's a nightmare waiting to happen.

I'm now having reservations about an outfield of Matsui, Giles and Sheff. I'd only get Giles to play the corner and DH.

DeputyFife
11-16-05, 11:15 PM
Re Giles in center, I'm concerned about balls hit to the left/center gap. With Matsui's and Giles lack of speed, we are talking about an extra base or two or a run scored that would have been prevented by a true CF with speed. Same thing with a ball hit between Sheff and Giles.

I'm having reservations about an outfield of Matsui, Giles and Sheff now.

I havn't like the idea of rotating the CFer either, I'd much rather sign Giles to play primarly LF and DH Sheff. Then we would still have to get a CF. I would like the Yankess to be a little more flexable.

AMYanks
11-16-05, 11:20 PM
Re Giles in center, I'm concerned about balls hit to the left/center gap. With Matsui's and Giles lack of speed, we are talking about an extra base or two or a run scored that would have been prevented by a true CF with speed. Same thing with a ball hit between Sheff and Giles. It's a nightmare waiting to happen.

I'm now having reservations about an outfield of Matsui, Giles and Sheff. I'd only get Giles to play the corner and DH.

It's not ideal, but the offense that group would produce would pretty much make up for any defensive shortcomings.

nyyanksfan20
11-16-05, 11:48 PM
Wow this is starting to get interesting. I figured once we signed Matsui our interest would decline, it seems like its increasing. This is good news.

27IsNext
11-17-05, 12:36 AM
As I've said before, we need to have Giles signed prior to getting into any negotiations for a CFer trade. That way, if teams decide they're going to impose the Yankee Tax on us in a trade, we have something to fall back on.

ryanthe13th
11-17-05, 12:50 AM
This guy is using the Yankees to drive his price up.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-17-05, 01:00 AM
As I've said before, we need to have Giles signed prior to getting into any negotiations for a CFer trade. That way, if teams decide they're going to impose the Yankee Tax on us in a trade, we have something to fall back on.

Good point...

StatenIslandYankee
11-17-05, 01:13 AM
Maybe Matsui will be our CF, and Giles will move to LF

Stupid Flanders
11-17-05, 01:21 AM
Wow, that does add some more certainty to it. If nothing else, Giles has to be thrilled because he's now got the Yankees officially to be interested in him, which just drives up his price. I still wonder if this will happen quickly at all. The Yankees, and most teams, wait until after Dec. 7th, so they know who has been offered arbitration and if there will be a draft pick compensation issue. And even last year, when the Yankees were signing Wright and Pavano, they made agreements in early December, but didn't announce them until late December. SD might actually not offer Giles arbitration because of the Cameron trade, so maybe it is smart to work something out and not announce it until later (Sheffield did this too and the Braves weren't sure if the Yankees had an agreement or not so they didn't offer arbitration to him and the Yankees didn't have to surrender a pick.)Screw the pick. If you can get Giles now, do it.

Giles is far more valuable for the next 3 years than any draft pick.

StatenIslandYankee
11-17-05, 01:23 AM
Q1: Is he serious about coming here?
Q2: Where does he play? LF? CF? RF?
Q3: How much will it cost?

Stupid Flanders
11-17-05, 02:05 AM
Q1: Is he serious about coming here?
Q2: Where does he play? LF? CF? RF?
Q3: How much will it cost?
Maybe
Yes
$13M/yr

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 05:15 AM
I have a hard time believing Cashman will sign Giles as the CF solution. I see him signing as the Yankees everyday RF with Sheffield moving to DH, and Cashman going hard after Milton Bradley or Aaron Rowand (more likely since Sheff would be slightly more expendable in a 3-team trade). If a good defensive CF is NOT found however, then Giles would slide right into the position and Sheff would return as the everyday RF. Defense is slightly upgraded and the offense is much better. Win-win situation for us.

yankeebot
11-17-05, 05:29 AM
I have a hard time believing Cashman will sign Giles as the CF solution. I see him signing as the Yankees everyday RF with Sheffield moving to DH, and Cashman going hard after Milton Bradley or Aaron Rowand (more likely since Sheff would be slightly more expendable in a 3-team trade). If a good defensive CF is NOT found however, then Giles would slide right into the position and Sheff would return as the everyday RF. Defense is slightly upgraded and the offense is much better. Win-win situation for us.
Bingo. Getting Giles makes a "Milton Bradley experiment" a much more viable option and Sheff would be much better for us in a DH role.

Col. Jacob Ruppert
11-17-05, 05:41 AM
Bingo. Getting Giles makes a "Milton Bradley experiment" a much more viable option and Sheff would be much better for us in a DH role.
Yep, plus it sounded like Sheffield liked being a DH toward the end of last year when he couldnt play the field.

noneckwilliams
11-17-05, 06:03 AM
It's excellent news that the Yankees seem to be very serious about Giles. Now it's just a matter of convincing him that New York is the best option and getting it done. I'm just happy that they're very interested, as I was afraid that they'd basically ignore him and go after a "traditional" CF instead.

By "traditional" do you mean a guy who can actually play CF?


Re Giles in center, I'm concerned about balls hit to the left/center gap. With Matsui's and Giles lack of speed, we are talking about an extra base or two or a run scored that would have been prevented by a true CF with speed. Same thing with a ball hit between Sheff and Giles. It's a nightmare waiting to happen.

I'm now having reservations about an outfield of Matsui, Giles and Sheff. I'd only get Giles to play the corner and DH.

People seem to be forgetting the lessons of last season's OF clusterf***. Adding Giles does nothing to improve the Yankees atrocious (worst in the league?) OF defense. You can't hide an entire OF that's bad. It kills your pitching staff to have the lack of range in the OF that the Yankees have. If Crosby could "pick it" in CF he would have done so last season.

Some people have stars in their eyes about adding Giles' bat to an already productive lineup - but does he make the team better? When you look at the Yankees as currently constructed (with Matsui in the fold) is your first thought "hey, this team really needs a productive corner OFer"? It's not mine.

Yankees1962
11-17-05, 06:04 AM
I still say that chances of getting Giles is very slim. I hope Yankee fans don't get too discourage when it becomes apparent that the Yankees will not acquire the big guns they're hoping for such as Giles, Ryan and Farnsworth.

ring403
11-17-05, 06:40 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks174516357nov17,0,1508623.story?coll=ny-sports-print
While Giles has minimal experience in centerfield (17 games in the last five years, all in 2005), the Yankees would consider tendering a three-year, $33-million offer to Giles - if they can be convinced that the Southern California native wants to play for them. As part of a limited no-trade clause in his previous contract, Giles included the Yankees as a club to which he could block a trade.

Furthermore, the Yankees have investigated the asking price of free agent Johnny Damon. The team was discouraged by the seven-year, $84-million request, but there is significant interest among Yankees officials if the price drops to something more in the four-year, $44-million range.

ppa79
11-17-05, 06:42 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks174516357nov17,0,1508623.story?coll=ny-sports-print

Just say yes to Giles and no to Damon

ring403
11-17-05, 06:46 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57633.htm
Cashman spoke with Brian Giles' agent, Joe Bick, again yesterday to stress the team is still interested in the Padres free-agent outfielder. It's at least the sixth time Cashman and Bick have spoken in about 10 days.

Bick wouldn't characterize the conversations nor reveal whether an offer had been made.

But he did allow, "I think if teams wait on us to make offers at the winter meetings (Dec. 5-8), they're going to be too late."
This might be another indication that the Yankees are attempting to wrap Giles up quickly, and may even have made an offer already.

JDPNYY
11-17-05, 06:53 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57633.htm
This might be another indication that the Yankees are attempting to wrap Giles up quickly, and may even have made an offer already.

A smart move in my opinion. I think the Yankees should act this way whenever they have a clear target. Get there, make the offer & get out if it becomes evident that the player is just playing the Yankees. They shouldn't allow agents to use them (the Yankees) to drive up prices.

ieddyi
11-17-05, 06:57 AM
Wow, that does add some more certainty to it. If nothing else, Giles has to be thrilled because he's now got the Yankees officially to be interested in him, which just drives up his price. I still wonder if this will happen quickly at all. The Yankees, and most teams, wait until after Dec. 7th, so they know who has been offered arbitration and if there will be a draft pick compensation issue. And even last year, when the Yankees were signing Wright and Pavano, they made agreements in early December, but didn't announce them until late December. SD might actually not offer Giles arbitration because of the Cameron trade, so maybe it is smart to work something out and not announce it until later (Sheffield did this too and the Braves weren't sure if the Yankees had an agreement or not so they didn't offer arbitration to him and the Yankees didn't have to surrender a pick.)

I think it's a no brainer for SD to offer arbitration. No way Giles would accept as he will make MUCH more money elsewhere. It's very rare for a team to get burnt- Polanco was the exception last year- it's almost automatic- except for us and Clemens- doh!

noneckwilliams
11-17-05, 07:12 AM
Just say yes to Giles and no to Damon

I want no part of Damon. Hopefully the NYY (4 year $44mil) are just floating this out there to maybe jack up his price in Boston (not that the RS are gonna bite anyway). 4 years of Damon - no thank you.

ReggieBar
11-17-05, 07:15 AM
Sheff is gone after next year, then we inject youth, no? Building a team is a slow process

This is a good point. If/when Sheff leaves after next season, we slide Giles to right and see what CF options are available.

Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 07:48 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57633.htm
This might be another indication that the Yankees are attempting to wrap Giles up quickly, and may even have made an offer already.

The news of Torre's phone call to Giles in my opinion is the first real evidence that the Yankees are sincerely interested in Giles other than as a fall back had Matsui not signed. I've said before, while hardly the best defender, Giles would fit very nicely on this team and create a nice OF/DH rotation. The move also seems to pave the way for Giles to move to RF in 2007 as Sheff is either gone or the full time DH.

I also very much like the idea of the Yanks wanting to get the deals they're interested in done sooner than later. Hopefully they can put the best pieces in place early and make minor adjustments the rest of the winter. I am surprised about the comments from the Giles camp about a possible signing sometime before the owners' meetings. Maybe his interest in NY is genuine nad he doesn't want to wait for fear the Yankees will decide to move in a different direction.

Interesting stuff!!

Sam18
11-17-05, 08:02 AM
I'm feel like this is the RJ trade talks from summer of 04'. We all thought he was coming any day now and it never happend. Hopefully we can get Giles and soon.

nyctalopia
11-17-05, 08:57 AM
I'm feel like this is the RJ trade talks from summer of 04'. We all thought he was coming any day now and it never happend. Hopefully we can get Giles and soon.
This is a little different because Giles is a FA. The RJ talks are more comparable to the rumors about Rowand right now. There is no reason for Bick to be saying that teams need to contact him before the winter meetings unless Giles is very interested in the Yankees because his value will certainly increase as more free agents are signed. Interesting article on NJ.com today though suggesting that the contract Cashman gave to Matsui will make Giles much more expensive than he should have been.

Either way, I'm in the "Get It Done NOW" camp. And then we can go get Bradley or Rowand.

Sam18
11-17-05, 09:03 AM
This is a little different because Giles is a FA. The RJ talks are more comparable to the rumors about Rowand right now. There is no reason for Bick to be saying that teams need to contact him before the winter meetings unless Giles is very interested in the Yankees because his value will certainly increase as more free agents are signed. Interesting article on NJ.com today though suggesting that the contract Cashman gave to Matsui will make Giles much more expensive than he should have been.

Either way, I'm in the &quot;Get It Done NOW&quot; camp. And then we can go get Bradley or Rowand.

Agreed.

The Dynasty
11-17-05, 09:24 AM
Agreed.

1.Jeter ss
2.Giles rf
3.Rodriguez 3b
4.Giambi 1b
5.Sheffield dh
6.Matsui lf
7.Bradley cf
8.Posada c
9.Cano 2b

:drool:

I Love Wang
11-17-05, 09:32 AM
By "traditional" do you mean a guy who can actually play CF?



People seem to be forgetting the lessons of last season's OF clusterf***. Adding Giles does nothing to improve the Yankees atrocious (worst in the league?) OF defense. You can't hide an entire OF that's bad. It kills your pitching staff to have the lack of range in the OF that the Yankees have. If Crosby could "pick it" in CF he would have done so last season.

Some people have stars in their eyes about adding Giles' bat to an already productive lineup - but does he make the team better? When you look at the Yankees as currently constructed (with Matsui in the fold) is your first thought "hey, this team really needs a productive corner OFer"? It's not mine.

This simply isn't true. Putting Giles in LF and movint Matsui to CF gives us a significantly better defensive alignment than we had last year. Matsui played CF for a decade in Japan, and looked more comfortable out there in 2003 when he played a significant amount of CF. Furthermore, the offensive advantage that Giles gives us will much more than make up for any runs this defense costs us.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-17-05, 09:50 AM
This simply isn't true. Putting Giles in LF and movint Matsui to CF gives us a significantly better defensive alignment than we had last year. Matsui played CF for a decade in Japan, and looked more comfortable out there in 2003 when he played a significant amount of CF. Furthermore, the offensive advantage that Giles gives us will much more than make up for any runs this defense costs us.

Matsui is not a good leftfielder and he isn't a good CFer, although it is an improvement from last year it is still by no means good...

Bernie Inferno
11-17-05, 09:58 AM
The news of Torre's phone call to Giles in my opinion is the first real evidence that the Yankees are sincerely interested in Giles other than as a fall back had Matsui not signed. I've said before, while hardly the best defender, Giles would fit very nicely on this team and create a nice OF/DH rotation.

Gotta love the Torre phone calls. How can you say no to Joey Four Rings?!

noneckwilliams
11-17-05, 10:03 AM
This simply isn't true. Putting Giles in LF and movint Matsui to CF gives us a significantly better defensive alignment than we had last year. Matsui played CF for a decade in Japan, and looked more comfortable out there in 2003 when he played a significant amount of CF. Furthermore, the offensive advantage that Giles gives us will much more than make up for any runs this defense costs us.

If Matsui is so good in CF why have the Yankees been trying to acquire a CFer since last May? Their actions speak pretty loudly - they don't consider him to be the answer in CF.

The Yankees have sh**y OF defense and Giles makes it marginally better next year (replacing Shef) but I don't expect Giles to become a better defender as he heads toward 37, 37, 38 years old.

Ask Randy Johnson whom he'd rather see in Pinstripes - Brian Giles or say Aaron Rowand.

I'm not dismissing the possible acqusition of Giles as a stupid move but he isn't the first guy I think of when it comes to improving this team.

noneckwilliams
11-17-05, 10:12 AM
Gotta love the Torre phone calls. How can you say no to Joey Four Rings?!

Torre clearly endorsed the signing of Giles, a player he remembered for his speed and versatility from Giles's time with the Cleveland Indians in the late 1990's

Actually I found this line kind of disturbing.

Sam18
11-17-05, 10:40 AM
Torre clearly endorsed the signing of Giles, a player he remembered for his speed and versatility from Giles's time with the Cleveland Indians in the late 1990's

Actually I found this line kind of disturbing.

Am I missing something?

sugmasterflex
11-17-05, 10:50 AM
If they really want Giles, sign him now and keep it hush-hush until the arbitration deadline passes. It's worth a try.

Davios
11-17-05, 11:21 AM
Am I missing something?



You mean besides the fact that 1990 was fifteen years ago???

Jasbro
11-17-05, 11:24 AM
You mean besides the fact that 1990 was fifteen years ago???

The quote does not say 1990. It says late 90's.

Giles was last with the Indians in 1997. He has been in the NL since then. So the last time Torre saw Giles play against him was in 1997.

What is the issue?