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sjb23
11-03-05, 02:15 PM
1. Re-sign Hideki Matsui
2. Sign BJ Ryan
3. Sign Ramon Hernandez
4. Sign Miguel Cairo
5. Sign Jarod Washburn
6. Sign Scott Sauerbeck
7. Sign Jacque Jones
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
9. Give Posada a 1st baseman's mitt for Christmas
10. Re-sign John Flaherty
11, Re-sign Ramiro Mendoza
12. Sign another utility infielder



2006 Roster
1B - Giambi (backup - Posada)
2B - Cano (backup - Cairo,utility player)
SS - Jeter (backup - Cairo,utility player)
3B - Rodriguez (backup - Cairo,utility player)
LF - Matsui (backup - N/A :),Crosby)
CF - Gary Matthews Jr. (backup - Crosby,Jones)
RF - Sheffield (backup - Crosby,Jones)
C - Hernandez (Posada,Flaherty)

Reserves - Posada, Cairo, Flaherty, Crosby, Jones, utility infielder

SP - Johnson,Mussina,Pavano,Washburn,Chacon or Wang
BP - Rivera,Ryan,Sturtze,Small,Sauerbeck,Mendoza


As I'm sure you can tell, I have given absolutely no thought to dollars spent, as I feel this should not be a concern to George-- let him spend whatever he needs to spend to get these guys signed...feel free to critique...try to do it constructively :)

ABCBaseball
11-03-05, 02:18 PM
chacon or wang for GARY MATHEWS? are you kidding me?

chanman7483
11-03-05, 02:22 PM
chacon or wang for GARY MATHEWS? are you kidding me?

Yup. Ridiculous move...

That's a lot of off season moves..! BTW, Ramiro Mendoza?

Bernie Inferno
11-03-05, 02:23 PM
chacon or wang for GARY MATHEWS? are you kidding me?

INSANE! :eek:

jpm114
11-03-05, 02:23 PM
Garry Matthews jr. a career 4th out fielder for either a) a guy who pitched great for the yanks after escaping colorado or b) the first bona fide starting pitcher the yanks farm system has produced in recent memory No way. If he can be had for less than that yes but under those terms no way

ICEBERG18
11-03-05, 02:24 PM
This thread isn't going to last, is it?

nahzo
11-03-05, 02:24 PM
This thread isn't going to last, is it?
5... 4...

AMYanks
11-03-05, 02:25 PM
Those will put us closer to the AL East basement!

Dr. Gonzo
11-03-05, 02:26 PM
I think your moves stink

Mark19
11-03-05, 02:26 PM
Trade Chacon or Wang for GARY MATTHEWS?

Sign Ramon Hernandez?
Re-sign Flaherty? So we can have a $17 million 3rd catcher on the bench?


Ideas like these make me think that there are 5 year olds posting at NYYFans.

sjb23
11-03-05, 02:27 PM
thanks for the constructive critisism, folks....really appreciate it.....sheesh.....

Smokey
11-03-05, 02:30 PM
thanks for the constructive critisism, folks....really appreciate it.....sheesh.....

I think its really just about the Wang or Chacon for Matthews Jr. and resigning Mendoza, the rest of the moves are fine.

yankeebot
11-03-05, 02:31 PM
Where is Jaret Wright?

AMYanks
11-03-05, 02:31 PM
thanks for the constructive critisism, folks....really appreciate it.....sheesh.....

Well when you want to trade a young talented starting pitcher for at best, a poor starting OF, you should be prepared for this.

TheDynasty26
11-03-05, 02:33 PM
why would anyone ever want to put jorge at first..... his offense is worse than giambis, and defense there wont be any better. let giambi play the field, and have tino sub in the late innings or to give him a rest every couple of days.

Mark19
11-03-05, 02:34 PM
I think its really just about the Wang or Chacon for Matthews Jr. and resigning Mendoza, the rest of the moves are fine.

Umm, also have 3 catchers and paying $17 million for Posada to be a back-up for Flaherty and play 1b despite only have 9 games there during his career.

Also, signing Jacque Jones so Gary Matthews can be our starting CF?

Signing Washburn while making Jaret Wright magically vanish and putting Wang or Chacon in the bullpen.

Blaze
11-03-05, 02:36 PM
1. Re-sign Hideki Matsui
2. Sign BJ Ryan
3. Sign Ramon Hernandez
4. Sign Miguel Cairo
5. Sign Jarod Washburn
6. Sign Scott Sauerbeck
7. Sign Jacque Jones
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
9. Give Posada a 1st baseman's mitt for Christmas
10. Re-sign John Flaherty
11, Re-sign Ramiro Mendoza
12. Sign another utility infielder



2006 Roster
1B - Giambi (backup - Posada)
2B - Cano (backup - Cairo,utility player)
SS - Jeter (backup - Cairo,utility player)
3B - Rodriguez (backup - Cairo,utility player)
LF - Matsui (backup - N/A :),Crosby)
CF - Gary Matthews Jr. (backup - Crosby,Jones)
RF - Sheffield (backup - Crosby,Jones)
C - Hernandez (Posada,Flaherty)

Reserves - Posada, Cairo, Flaherty, Crosby, Jones, utility infielder

SP - Johnson,Mussina,Pavano,Washburn,Chacon or Wang
BP - Rivera,Ryan,Sturtze,Small,Sauerbeck,Mendoza


As I'm sure you can tell, I have given absolutely no thought to dollars spent, as I feel this should not be a concern to George-- let him spend whatever he needs to spend to get these guys signed...feel free to critique...try to do it constructively :)

Crack is simply KILLING this country. :mad:

BillBuckner
11-03-05, 02:36 PM
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
Dude are you insane. I'd kill myself.

rivera,s cutter
11-03-05, 02:38 PM
do you want to annihilate the yankee org or are you mike lupica in disguise wearing a mets cap!!!

Smokey
11-03-05, 02:41 PM
Umm, also have 3 catchers and paying $17 million for Posada to be a back-up for Flaherty and play 1b despite only have 9 games there during his career.

Also, signing Jacque Jones so Gary Matthews can be our starting CF?

Signing Washburn while making Jaret Wright magically vanish and putting Wang or Chacon in the bullpen.

fine yeah those moves are questionable also

Stupid Flanders
11-03-05, 02:41 PM
Trade Chacon or Wang for GARY MATTHEWS?

Sign Ramon Hernandez?
Re-sign Flaherty? So we can have a $17 million 3rd catcher on the bench?


Ideas like these make me think that there are 5 year olds posting at NYYFans.
Actually signing Ramon Hernandez is not a bad idea.

Hitman23
11-03-05, 02:44 PM
Anyone who is for trading Chacon deserves a slap in the head from everyone else in this forum. Line starts here.

ruthianblast
11-03-05, 02:45 PM
1. Re-sign Hideki Matsui
2. Sign BJ Ryan
3. Sign Ramon Hernandez
4. Sign Miguel Cairo
5. Sign Jarod Washburn
6. Sign Scott Sauerbeck
7. Sign Jacque Jones
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
9. Give Posada a 1st baseman's mitt for Christmas
10. Re-sign John Flaherty
11, Re-sign Ramiro Mendoza
12. Sign another utility infielder


I agree with Matsui, Hernandez, Flash; but nothing else. Washburn? I would really rather just keep experimenting with Wright/Chacon. My ideal is:
Johnson, Moose, Wang, Chacon, Pavano, with Wright the backup starter
Rivera, Ryan, Sturtze, Wright, Gordon if possible, then Henn/DePaula and a journeyman.
I like Giambi at 1B, Cano 2B, Jeter SS, ARod 3B, Hernandez C, Sheff RF, Matsui LF, Cabrera CF, Posada DH.

Crusadecat
11-03-05, 02:45 PM
I think the Matthews Jr for Chacon or Wang stinks and I don't like the idea of Posada as a 1b. I think we need a defensive 1b like Olerud.

NewEraYanks2527
11-03-05, 02:48 PM
Why Washburn? Why Gary Matthews Jr.? What are you thinking?

In Mo I Trust
11-03-05, 02:48 PM
Try again.......

The Yankee Captain
11-03-05, 02:50 PM
Why would we trade eihter Wang or Chacon for Matthews, who's been released by at least 2 organizations, maybe 3, the past few years? That's dumb.

And Jones as a backup, while Matthews starts. :eek:
Jones is a better ballplayer than Matthews.

BW51
11-03-05, 02:57 PM
Yup. Ridiculous move...

That's a lot of off season moves..! BTW, Ramiro Mendoza?

you know what tho, i don't think signing mendoza to a minor league/similar deal to this yr is so bad

if he builds up arm strength and could be kind of useful, why not


also, while supposedly we have extra pitchers, i have been thinkin bout the washburn idea...and i'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more

Stupid Flanders
11-03-05, 03:00 PM
why would anyone ever want to put jorge at first..... his offense is worse than giambis, and defense there wont be any better. let giambi play the field, and have tino sub in the late innings or to give him a rest every couple of days.Posada should see some time (not all) at first because he's hitting the age where catchers hit the wall. Hi knees need a break.

As for his defense, Posada came up as a 2B. He can handle it.

Stupid Flanders
11-03-05, 03:02 PM
you know what tho, i don't think signing mendoza to a minor league/similar deal to this yr is so bad

if he builds up arm strength and could be kind of useful, why not


also, while supposedly we have extra pitchers, i have been thinkin bout the washburn idea...and i'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned moreIf you're going to sign a SP, go for Burnett.

However, we don't need another SP

jpao89
11-03-05, 03:13 PM
If you're going to sign a SP, go for Burnett.

However, we don't need another SP

Exactly, improving our defense would improve our SP instantly.

rightfielder21
11-03-05, 03:21 PM
I see several moves there to keep the Yankees OUT of the 2006 WS...

sjb23
11-03-05, 03:24 PM
Trade Chacon or Wang for GARY MATTHEWS?

Why do you think a career sub-.500 pitcher (31-48) with a 4.90 ERA is all of a sudden worth more than a 4th outfielder? Because of a very good 2nd half? Isn't that kind of a small sample?

Why do you think a rookie with 116 innings pitched in the big leagues can command more in a trade? Once again, I think maybe you're being a bit biased.

Gary Matthews would be a good stop-gap centerfielder until some of the prosepects are ready or the free agent field gets a little better. Someone like Aaron Rowland or Grady Sizemore will probably be available in a couple of years. Matthews is a better defensive and offensive outfielder than the 2005 version of Bernie Williams, so I consider him an upgrade, without having to give up too much to get him.


Sign Ramon Hernandez?

I believe the general consensus is that Hernandez is a better defensive catcher than Posada in terms of framing pitches and blocking the plate, can contribute offensively (check out his stats the last two seasons), and is younger. Hernandez should easily be able to catch 100 games -- let Posada catch 60, back up Giambi at 1st, and DH. Hopefully, they'll both be better rested come playoff time.



Re-sign Flaherty? So we can have a $17 million 3rd catcher on the bench?

Umm, if Posada is backing up Giambi at 1st, a third catcher would be necessary, and Flaherty would do it cheaply and efficiently.



Ideas like these make me think that there are 5 year olds posting at NYYFans.

I've never actually read them, but I think insulting posters is against the standards here. It's okay to disagree, but thinly-veiled name calling is very disrespectful and should not be allowed.

CTyankeefan
11-03-05, 03:28 PM
LO> That original post was silly. The Yanks could win the World Series with that team, but it has nothing to do with the 12 moves.

Chacon or Wang for Gary Matthews Jr? Is Randy Wynn not available. I'd give up Proctor for Matthews Jr.

tdel23
11-03-05, 03:28 PM
I know it's only a backup catcher but can they please do better then John Flaherty

boo_427
11-03-05, 03:28 PM
I will stand up and admit...

Gary Matthews was a second half stud for my fantasy team.


Funny thing is, I see where you have made suggestions and everyone has taken the opportunity to run your ideas into the ground, but have made none themselves.

boo_427
11-03-05, 03:29 PM
Chacon or Wang for Gary Matthews Jr? Is Randy Wynn not available. I'd give up Proctor for Matthews Jr.

Randy Wynn resigned with the Giants.

destro
11-03-05, 03:29 PM
sign jackie the jokeman martling

sjb23
11-03-05, 03:30 PM
Where is Jaret Wright?


wow...totally forgot about Jaret....my bad....but you know what, with the history of arm problems and what last year seemed to be short-stamina (he always seemed weaker the 2nd/3rd time thru the batting order), maybe Jaret should be considered as a late inning set up guy, over Sturtze?....

rightfielder21
11-03-05, 03:31 PM
Why do you think a career sub-.500 pitcher (31-48) with a 4.90 ERA is all of a sudden worth more than a 4th outfielder? Because of a very good 2nd half? Isn't that kind of a small sample?

Why do you think a rookie with 116 innings pitched in the big leagues can command more in a trade?

I think maybe you're being a bit biased.


Yes, he (Chacon) is worth more than a 4th outfielder given the circumsatnces before he got here....

Wanting to trade a very good YOUNG, CHEAP, starting pitcher (Wang) for a 4th outfielder is foolish...

I think you are undervaluing our talent and/or biased towards Gary Matthews for some reason... He can be had for much less and if not, there are other options in CF...

sjb23
11-03-05, 03:35 PM
why would anyone ever want to put jorge at first..... his offense is worse than giambis, and defense there wont be any better. let giambi play the field, and have tino sub in the late innings or to give him a rest every couple of days.

Posada has played first a few times, was originally a 2nd baseman, has good hands, a strong arm, and is getting to the point where he shouldn't be catching 3 out of 4 games -- his bat slows down too much. He still could be a valuable offensive player, especially since he switch-hits. It makes sense to give him a break behind the plate but not necessarily "waste" an expensive player on the bench. Tino is taking up a roster spot and cannot contribute offensively. The way I see it, Posada will get 450 at bats between catcher, 1B, and DH, and will be stronger for the playoffs

27IsNext
11-03-05, 03:36 PM
Some people shouldn't let their children out. :(

Evil Empire
11-03-05, 03:40 PM
I disagree with:

Trading Chacon or Wang, especially for Gary Mathews Jr.-Mathews just isn't that good to trade either.
Signing Washburn-I don't see why we need him.

I would trade Pavano though.

sjb23
11-03-05, 03:42 PM
Why Washburn? Why Gary Matthews Jr.? What are you thinking?


I've already explained why gary matthews in another reply, so I'll just answer "Why Washburn"....

Because IMO he's an above-average lefty (I personally think the Yanks should have another lefty in the rotation) who's pitched in some big situations and hasn't necessarily reached his prime, and should be more dependable than Jaret Wright in the #4 spot

diehardyankeefan
11-03-05, 03:45 PM
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
No way, that would be a horrible trade for us.

sjb23
11-03-05, 03:45 PM
And Jones as a backup, while Matthews starts. :eek:
Jones is a better ballplayer than Matthews.

Jones is a better corner outfielder and not proven in centerfield, although the two of them can alternate positions and/or compete. My thinking here is to get Sheffield out of right field and use him as a DH for 100 games or so....

Stupid Flanders
11-03-05, 03:49 PM
Why do you think a career sub-.500 pitcher (31-48) with a 4.90 ERA is all of a sudden worth more than a 4th outfielder? Because of a very good 2nd half? Isn't that kind of a small sample?
you are aware he pitched for the rockies, right

4.90 in CO = GREAT.

HouseThatRingsBuild
11-03-05, 03:54 PM
This is why I really like the rules of this board when it comes to starting threads.

fredgmuggs
11-03-05, 03:56 PM
You know, I don't hate the Gary Mathews, Jr. idea... but certainly not for either Wang or Chacon. But... if they can re-sign Mendoza and deal him to Texas... :)

And I really don't see Posada playing 1B. I have visions of Posada playing 1B exactly like Mike Piazza. Man, I'm breaking out in a cold sweat just thinking about that.

NYYRocket
11-03-05, 03:58 PM
I don't see much of these moves making sense. Matsui resign yes, BJ Ryan yes, even J Jones for center...well if we had too. But the rest...pass

HouseThatRingsBuild
11-03-05, 03:59 PM
I would trade Wang for Zito.

RobRiv
11-03-05, 04:07 PM
Here's an, um, alternative "12 step program" to get the Bombers back on top next season:

1.) Delete the word “October” from Alex Rodriguez’s 2006 Yankees Visa give-away calendar and replace it with “July.” If everybody tells him it's July in October, he might hit like it.(look, I love Alex and I know that was a cheap shot, but these things are always funnier when you start with a cheap shot at a big dog's expense)
2.) Thank Mr. Bernie Williams and Mr. Tino Martinez for their years of service with two separate monument dedication ceremonies at Yankee Stadium. And replace these beloved Yankee greats with two versions of their younger selves. Bernie and Tino’s young replacements are out there somewhere. Please find them.
3.) Keep that Mariano fellow. He’s very very good. The shortstop, too.
4.) Sign Johnny Damon on the condition that he shaves his head. Then, have him share playing time with Bubba "Crash" Crosby. Think how much this would irk Red Sox fans.
5.) Sign Theo Epstein to be the assistant to our assistant GM’s assistant's assistant. Think how much this would irk Red Sox fans.
6.) For the first time in Yankees history, put the players names on the back of their jerseys. But make all the player's names “Lucchino.” Think how much this would irk Red Sox fans.
7.) After thoroughly disinfecting Kevin Brown’s locker, remove it from the clubhouse, sell it on e-bay, and donate the proceeds to The Self-Inflicted Broken Hand Society (they're a small non-for-profit but they're in the book.)
8.) Temporarily re-name New York’s “Canyon of Heroes” the “Tanyon of Heroes” to help Sturtze’s shaken confidence. We need ya back, Sturtzie.
9.) Let the Red Sox have their little "green monstah.” Our left field corner shall be known as “The Great Wall of Godzilla,” and it shall be the only man-made structure on the East Coast visible from outer space. (we do this after signing Matsui to a very reasonable 4 year deal, of course)
10.) Nevermind this “coaching” business, get Guidry into the rotation, and Mattingly back into the lineup.
11.) Re-assign Suzyn Waldman to the YES pre and postgame shows and introduce the new radio team, Sterling and Sheppard (yes, as in Mr. Bob Sheppard, The Voice of God).
12.) Let Torre and his team do their job.

27IsNext
11-03-05, 04:10 PM
Chacon has a career K/9 of six. Once he fully recovers from that ankle sprain by next season, he should strike out more people. Wang's K/9 in the minors was seven. If he works with Kerrigan, I expect his K/9 in the majors to be pretty close to his minor-league K/9.

Neither should be traded.

justinvarnes
11-03-05, 04:20 PM
I think the SP can be centered around Chacon and Wang for several years. As Moose and RJ get older and continue to decline and break down, the Yankees will need SOLID starters. Wang is a young, GB pitcher who should be a good #3 - #4 pitcher for the Yanks for years to come (think a consistent Derek Lowe for the next 5-8 years...for CHEAP).

Chacon has been thought of for awhile as someone who would succeed outside of Coors. And he has so far. He is young, has a good makeup, and has great stuff. He's a #2-#3 pitcher that can be on the yankees staff for years to come.

RJ, Moose, Pavano, Burnett, Phillip Hughes, etc. can fill the #1 - #2 spots and BOOM, we've got a GREAT rotation year after year.

This is the reason why it's a bad trade. Although you can't predict the future, both these pitchers have done well enough to warrant giving them a shot to continue it. they both have the makeup and the stuff to do it, and they ARE doing it. SP is the MOST important piece of a championship, IMHO.

ppa79
11-03-05, 04:25 PM
At least 2 moves to help the Yankees to get back to the World Series.

1. Sign Brian Giles
2. Sign BJ Ryan

brosiusbuddy
11-03-05, 05:00 PM
3. Sign Ramon Hernandez
5. Sign Jarod Washburn
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
9. Give Posada a 1st baseman's mitt for Christmas
10. Re-sign John Flaherty
11, Re-sign Ramiro Mendoza




First of all, why would you sign Hernandez if you have Posada and Flaherty? Posada isn't gonna switch to first. That would be dumb. I doubt he'd want to and why should we believe he'd be any better than Giambi? Players can't just switch positions. This isn't a video game. If Hernandez would share time with Posada I'd see no wrong in that signing, but Flash's services would no longer be necessary. I'm sure Hernandez could provide the sub .200 BA that flash does and RJ would just have to deal with a different catcher.

Jarod Washburn. If you haven't noticed, we will have 7 starting pitchers going into spring training so signing another would be pointless especially when we could put that money to a CF or a good relief group.

Trade Chacon or Wang? For Gary Mathews? I mean, Gary Mathews plays a decent OF and can hit a little, but what in the world could you be thinking to want to trade a pitcher under 30 who has shown he can perform and perform well under the pressure of NY both in the regular season and the playoffs? Why wouldn't you think to trade Pavano or Wright ahead of Chacon or Wang also?

Ramiro Mendoza? Come on. Look at the title of your thread. Would Ramiro Mendoza really have any influence on making this team a world series team? I didn't realize that guys who take up space in the bullpen spitting sunflower seeds and taking naps could help a team get to the bullpen?

sjb23
11-03-05, 05:05 PM
I am a HUGE Yankee fan and always give the players my loyalty, but I must say that a lot of folks who post here think the Yankees can trade for quality/above average/even superstar players without giving up quality in return.

There are not many quality centerfielders available, either through trade or free agency, nor do the Yanks don't want to give up their best young prospects in any deal. So my hunch is they're going to have to settle for anyone that can be better than the 2005 Bernie Williams.

Gary Matthews is available (at not too high of a price), and the Rangers, as always, need pitching, which is about the only surpkus the Yankees have.

I loved the way Chacon and Wang came up big for the team last year, but they still are considered to be unproven and therefore replaceable, and may at least get someone like Matthews in return.

Of course I'd like to keep them both, but Aaron Small and Scott Proctor still doesn't get Gary Matthews, even from the pitching-starved Rangers....

Wang's Groundballs
11-03-05, 05:15 PM
Why do you think a career sub-.500 pitcher (31-48) with a 4.90 ERA is all of a sudden worth more than a 4th outfielder? Because of a very good 2nd half? Isn't that kind of a small sample?

Why do you think W-L record is a good way to evaluate a pitcher? Why do you think a 4.90 ERA means that much in Coors?


Why do you think a rookie with 116 innings pitched in the big leagues can command more in a trade? Once again, I think maybe you're being a bit biased.

I know. I bet we could get Felix Hernandez for Tony Womack!!! He's proven unlike that sucky rookie pitcher.


Gary Matthews would be a good stop-gap centerfielder until some of the prosepects are ready or the free agent field gets a little better. Someone like Aaron Rowland or Grady Sizemore will probably be available in a couple of years. Matthews is a better defensive and offensive outfielder than the 2005 version of Bernie Williams, so I consider him an upgrade, without having to give up too much to get him.

You're recommending trading one of our 2, young starting pitchers for a stop gap CF all while signing a better stop gap CF and sitting him on the bench. Brilliant.

Wang's Groundballs
11-03-05, 05:16 PM
I
I loved the way Chacon and Wang came up big for the team last year, but they still are considered to be unproven and therefore replaceable, and may at least get someone like Matthews in return.

That's trure. We need more proven guys like Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, and Carl Pavano. We'll surely win a WS then!

brosiusbuddy
11-03-05, 05:17 PM
I am a HUGE Yankee fan and always give the players my loyalty, but I must say that a lot of folks who post here think the Yankees can trade for quality/above average/even superstar players without giving up quality in return.



I loved the way Chacon and Wang came up big for the team last year, but they still are considered to be unproven and therefore replaceable, and may at least get someone like Matthews in return.

....

I think you'll find that most of the trade rumors fans come up with are pretty lopsided no matter who the fan roots for. No fan would want a fair trade if they could help it cause you'd have to give up something good to get something good in return. The bias is a universal thing amongst fans. However I think that most Yankee fans realize that the Yankees need to give up more talent to get something in a trade than many other teams would. Or at least more money. I mean, look at when the Yanks tried for Schilling. AZ wanted Johnson and Soriano. Boston got him for ... I dont even know their names.

Chacon has proven himself to me. I don't know what you were watching or what you're idea of "proven" is, but after watching Chacon breeze right through his opposition I am fully confident that he will be more valuable as a 3rd or 4th starter than Mathews would be as a CF. Wang just had a fantastic rookie season... you don't let that go unnoticed.

To say someone is tradeable because they're unproven is just the type of mindset that got the Yankees into this spending frenzy, farm system depleting dilemma they're in. We traded young talent to get guys who were proven and now we are running low on guys who can prove themselves.

Wang's Groundballs
11-03-05, 05:20 PM
I would trade Wang for Zito.

A soon-to-be expensive pitcher who gives up a ton of flyballs and thus a lot of HR in our stadium with our OF defense instead of a young, cheap, GB machine? I'll take Wang...

sjb23
11-03-05, 05:20 PM
First of all, why would you sign Hernandez if you have Posada and Flaherty? Posada isn't gonna switch to first. That would be dumb. I doubt he'd want to and why should we believe he'd be any better than Giambi? Players can't just switch positions. This isn't a video game. If Hernandez would share time with Posada I'd see no wrong in that signing, but Flash's services would no longer be necessary. I'm sure Hernandez could provide the sub .200 BA that flash does and RJ would just have to deal with a different catcher.

Jarod Washburn. If you haven't noticed, we will have 7 starting pitchers going into spring training so signing another would be pointless especially when we could put that money to a CF or a good relief group.

Trade Chacon or Wang? For Gary Mathews? I mean, Gary Mathews plays a decent OF and can hit a little, but what in the world could you be thinking to want to trade a pitcher under 30 who has shown he can perform and perform well under the pressure of NY both in the regular season and the playoffs? Why wouldn't you think to trade Pavano or Wright ahead of Chacon or Wang also?

Ramiro Mendoza? Come on. Look at the title of your thread. Would Ramiro Mendoza really have any influence on making this team a world series team? I didn't realize that guys who take up space in the bullpen spitting sunflower seeds and taking naps could help a team get to the bullpen?

You must have overlooked that Posada would be Giambi's BACKUP at 1st, which would account for about 40 games there. He could catch about 60 games, and DH another 30 or so...Hernandez is a better defensive catcher, and you better check his offensive numbers over the last two years, you might be pleasantly surprised. Oh, and did you notice he's only 29???

If Joe were to be using Hernandez behind the plate and Posada at 1st or DHing, there would be a need for a 3rd string catcher -hence, the logic behind re-signing Flaherty.

Signing Washburn would be to offset loosing a starter in order to obtain a CFer.... or are you of the opinion that the Yanks can get a terrific centerfielder for a package built around guys like Aaron Small and Scott Proctor?? You have to give up something good (that you have a surplus of) in order to get someone good. Do you think these other teams are run by idiots? They know thet Yankees have only one surplus -- starting pitching.

I'd love to trade Pavano and/or Wright instead, but don't you think most clubs will be taken back by the contracts, making them almost untradeable? Did you hear Cashman say he wants to trim payroll wherever possible? Do you think it's good business to pay other teams for these overblown salaries?

Ramiro Mendoza can be signed cheaply, is war-tested, and likes being a Yankee, and it will be more than a year since his surgery. Have you ever heard of a diamond-in-the-rough. I'm not saying he's a savior, but I think he'd be a good candidate to be a semi-regular two inning middle reliever, something the Yankees desperately need in 2006. Do you think you're going to get an all-star to fill that role?

brosiusbuddy
11-03-05, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by sjb23
Why do you think a career sub-.500 pitcher (31-48) with a 4.90 ERA is all of a sudden worth more than a 4th outfielder? Because of a very good 2nd half? Isn't that kind of a small sample?

Why do you think W-L record is a good way to evaluate a pitcher? Why do you think a 4.90 ERA means that much in Coors?

Quote:
Why do you think a rookie with 116 innings pitched in the big leagues can command more in a trade? Once again, I think maybe you're being a bit biased.

I know. I bet we could get Felix Hernandez for Tony Womack!!! He's proven unlike that sucky rookie pitcher.

Not only were Chacon's numbers flawed by Coors, but so was his pitch selection. You'd be lucky to see him throw more than a hadnful of curves with Colorado because he stuck to his fastball, which isn't all that good. In NY, he threw mainly breaking and off speed pitches and it resulted in some nasty stuff that gave hitters fits. He also was a more confident guy in NY. I guess an actual lineup and not one comprised of solely Todd Helton will do that to you.

Wang wasn't one of the best groundball rookies in the majors. He was one of the best groundball pitchers of everyone in the majors. He has a sick splitter with a very hard fastball and you just don't give that up for Gary Mathews JR.

rightfielder21
11-03-05, 05:24 PM
just don't give that up for Gary Mathews JR.

This is the problem... No one is saying Gary Matthews Jr. wouldn't be a good pick up, but trading Wang or Chacon for him would be awful...

m_sisca
11-03-05, 05:25 PM
Where is Jaret Wright?hopefully playing in the minors.

brosiusbuddy
11-03-05, 05:26 PM
This is the problem... No one is saying Gary Matthews Jr. wouldn't be a good pick up, but trading Wang or Chacon for him would be awful...

I'm not sure why you quoted my post to say this. But I agree that Mathews is good, but not worth Wang or Chacon.

sjb23
11-03-05, 05:29 PM
I think you'll find that most of the trade rumors fans come up with are pretty lopsided no matter who the fan roots for. No fan would want a fair trade if they could help it cause you'd have to give up something good to get something good in return. The bias is a universal thing amongst fans. However I think that most Yankee fans realize that the Yankees need to give up more talent to get something in a trade than many other teams would. Or at least more money. I mean, look at when the Yanks tried for Schilling. AZ wanted Johnson and Soriano. Boston got him for ... I dont even know their names.

Chacon has proven himself to me. I don't know what you were watching or what you're idea of "proven" is, but after watching Chacon breeze right through his opposition I am fully confident that he will be more valuable as a 3rd or 4th starter than Mathews would be as a CF. Wang just had a fantastic rookie season... you don't let that go unnoticed.

To say someone is tradeable because they're unproven is just the type of mindset that got the Yankees into this spending frenzy, farm system depleting dilemma they're in. We traded young talent to get guys who were proven and now we are running low on guys who can prove themselves.

good replies...in your first point, you seem to be saying that the Yankees will have to give up more (in talent and/or money) than other teams, just because they're the Yankees -- I agree wholeheartedly. Once again, if they need to trade pitching to get a CFer, which is what it looks like to me, who is more tradeable/replaceable? Chacon/Wang, or Johnson/Mussina/Pavano?

Look, I don't want to give up Chacon or Wang either, but I also think we need an above average centerfielder, and I think Washburn can replace either Chacon or Wang effectively,and give the Yanks another lefty in the rotation.

DiMaggio5CF
11-03-05, 05:30 PM
wow...totally forgot about Jaret....my bad....but you know what, with the history of arm problems and what last year seemed to be short-stamina (he always seemed weaker the 2nd/3rd time thru the batting order), maybe Jaret should be considered as a late inning set up guy, over Sturtze?....

[Mike Francesa rant]You don't even know who the hell's on the team right now! Figure out who the Yankees have before you start making dumb suggestions on who they should get. Get a clue!!! [/Mike Francesa rant]

sjb23
11-03-05, 05:34 PM
This is the problem... No one is saying Gary Matthews Jr. wouldn't be a good pick up, but trading Wang or Chacon for him would be awful...

actually, i think quite a few folks think gary matthews wouldn't be a good pickup...personally i think he's coming into his own and if given the opportunity to play everyday, might surprise some folks....

i also think he's available, not very pricey, and the Rangers can afford Chacon's/Wang's salaries-another key ingredient....

let me ask you this....can Washburn replace either Chacon or Wang?

Wang's Groundballs
11-03-05, 05:34 PM
Did you hear Cashman say he wants to trim payroll wherever possible? Do you think it's good business to pay other teams for these overblown salaries?


Do you think it's good practice to trade our few productive cheap guys for worse players? Because that's what you're advocating. That will end up increasing are payroll if we want to win, not lower it.

sjb23
11-03-05, 05:43 PM
I will stand up and admit...

Gary Matthews was a second half stud for my fantasy team.


Funny thing is, I see where you have made suggestions and everyone has taken the opportunity to run your ideas into the ground, but have made none themselves.

Yes, I noticed that too. There are no easy answers, but at least I've attempted to address the problems and IMO, improve the team. No one seems to offer any other solutions for CF, C, or the bullpen, which seem to be the areas that need addressing

what's WRONG with this roster?


2006 Roster
1B - Giambi (backup - Posada)
2B - Cano (backup - Cairo,utility player)
SS - Jeter (backup - Cairo,utility player)
3B - Rodriguez (backup - Cairo,utility player)
LF - Matsui (backup - N/A ,Crosby)
CF - Gary Matthews Jr. (backup - Crosby,Jones)
RF - Sheffield (backup - Crosby,Jones)
C - Hernandez (Posada,Flaherty)

Reserves - Posada, Cairo, Flaherty, Crosby, Jones, utility infielder

SP - Johnson,Mussina,Pavano,Washburn,Chacon or Wang
BP - Rivera,Ryan,Sturtze,Small,Sauerbeck,Mendoza

DiMaggio5CF
11-03-05, 05:57 PM
Yes, I noticed that too. There are no easy answers, but at least I've attempted to address the problems and IMO, improve the team. No one seems to offer any other solutions for CF, C, or the bullpen, which seem to be the areas that need addressing

Tried, and failed. No one is knocking you for taking a shot. But to say that your suggestions are A-OK would be retarded.

And you still don't have Jaret Wright on the team.

sjb23
11-03-05, 06:04 PM
And you still don't have Jaret Wright on the team.

Wright replaces Sturtze as short reliever. I'd rather have Washburn/Chacon/Wang in the #4 slot over Jaret, and I'd rather have Jaret as a 7th inning guy over Sturtze, since we're stuck with Wright anyway.

HouseThatRingsBuild
11-03-05, 06:06 PM
A soon-to-be expensive pitcher who gives up a ton of flyballs and thus a lot of HR in our stadium with our OF defense instead of a young, cheap, GB machine? I'll take Wang...

Thank you for your input.

I like your name.

rightfielder21
11-03-05, 06:36 PM
Do you think it's good practice to trade our few productive cheap guys for worse players? Because that's what you're advocating. That will end up increasing are payroll if we want to win, not lower it.

Thank you...

brosiusbuddy
11-03-05, 07:38 PM
l
actually, i think quite a few folks think gary matthews wouldn't be a good pickup...personally i think he's coming into his own and if given the opportunity to play everyday, might surprise some folks....

i also think he's available, not very pricey, and the Rangers can afford Chacon's/Wang's salaries-another key ingredient....

let me ask you this....can Washburn replace either Chacon or Wang?

Well if you support the unproven argument, throw Pavano in there. If another team would take Pavano, I'd get rid of him before Wang. They are both groundball pitchers but based on what we've seen, Wang is more effective with his sinker. He is also younger, cheaper and has a harder fastball. I'd exhaust all other routes of getting a CFer before I gave up any of our starters aside from Jaret Wright.

As for Washburn, I dunno. He's a very good pitcher, but so far Chacon and Wang are too and if it ain't broke, don't fix it... right? Washburn's upside is he's a lefthander, his downside is he's more expensive. Other than that its hard to say whether he'd be a better or worse choice than Wang or Chacon.

DiMaggio5CF
11-03-05, 07:40 PM
Okay, here's my suggested moves list.

I eliminated trades because those are very hard to predict. The only trades I would suggest are ones that heavily favor the other team, meaning that they'd get done for sure, and that logically doesn't make any attractive deals.

So now I can criticize the suggestions of others all I want . . . right?

Step 1:
Sign B.J. Ryan
It's no secret that the Yankees need an upgraded bullpen, and it's no secret that B.J. Ryan is good. He gives the Yankees a lefty setup man who has closer experience.

Step 2:
Sign Johnny Damon
The only other options for centerfield are Jacque Jones and Preston Wilson, and both leave a lot to be desired, especially in plate patience. Damon can be what Chuck Knoblauch was supposed to be years ago: a pesky speedster at the plate who sees a lot of pitches and gets on base, while playing solid defense. Look at the numbers; Damon is head-and-shoulders above anyone else. The only other option is to move Matsui to center and pick up a corner outfielder, but that doesn't help the defense, and there aren't any great corner outfielders on the market. More than the stats, Damon represents the type of ballplayer the Yankees once had and now need again.

Step 3:
Sign Ricardo Rincon
Rincon is another piece to the bullpen puzzle. The Yankees could use two lefties in the bullpen, one of whom will be a lefty specialist while Ryan will be a setup man. The other legitimate options are Mike Myers and Scott Sauerbeck -- unless you consider Chris Hammond, Buddy Groom, Alan Embree, and Felix Heredia as legitimate options.

Step 4:
Sign Bobby Howry
This one isn't a great pickup, but the Yankees need another setup man to go with Ryan, and Howry might be the best available. Howry had great numbers last season, but who's really sold on him as an elite setup man? However, if he's paired with Ryan, they might make a very effective left-right combo.

Step 5:
Sign Bengie Molina
The Yankees need someone to take over the DH role on a permanent basis. While the speculation is that it would be Giambi or Sheffield, why not Posada? Posada is not a spectacular defensive catcher, and has already been banished from the area behind the plate when the Unit is on the mound. He's getting to that age when catchers break down, and that break down might have already started, given his 2005 numbers. Molina, with his cannon that shuts down running games, will improve the defense at the catcher spot, and the rest will hopefully revitalize Posada's bat.

Step 6:
Sign Pokey Reese
No bat, but great defense up the middle.

Step 7:
Sign Scott Spiezio
Spiezio will be the backup corner infielder. He has some pop, but his best years are behind him. With a potent starting lineup, however, all the Yankees need on the bench is depth and defense. Spiezio at the corners and Reese up the middle will take care of that.

Step 8:
Sign Jose Cruz, Jr.
Even with the potent lineup, it helps to have one guy on the bench who can pinch-hit, and that's where Cruz comes in. After being DFAed and traded for a PTBNL last season, he's hit rock bottom and should come cheap, but he still clubbed 18 homerun in 370 at-bats.

That leaves this roster:

C: Bengie Molina, R
1B: Jason Giambi, L
2B: Robinson Cano, L
3B: Alex Rodriguez, R
SS: Derek Jeter, R
LF: Hideki Matsui, L
CF: Johnny Damon, L
RF: Gary Sheffield, R
DH: Jorge Posada, S

1. Johnny Damon, L
2. Derek Jeter, R
3. Alex Rodriguez, R
4. Gary Sheffield, R
5. Hideki Matsui, L
6. Jorge Posada, S
7. Jason Giambi, L
8. Bengie Molina, R
9. Robinson Cano, L

C: John Flaherty, R
IF: Scott Spiezio, S
IF: Pokey Reese, R
OF: Bubba Crosby, L
OF: Jose Cruz, Jr., S

1. Randy Johnson, L
2. Mike Mussina, R
3. Carl Pavano, R
4. Shawn Chacon, R
5. Chien-Ming Wang, R

Closer: Mariano Rivera, R
Setup: B.J. Ryan, L
Setup: Bobby Howry, R
Middle: Ricardo Rincon, L
Middle: J. Brent Cox, R
Long: Jaret Wright, R

As a few side notes . . .

It would be nice to develop a pitcher, and Cox seems like the guy to give the job to. If he loses the job in Spring Training, give that spot to Scott Proctor as sort of a last chance to prove that he belongs. If all goes well, Cox may be promoted to the setup role by late in the season.

Hell, see if you can convince Roger Clemens to join the team as a relief pitcher -- chill out, sit in the bullpen every game, and come in to get three outs in the eighth every once in a while. There's probably no way he'd want to do that, but you never know unless you ask. He wore down late this season, and maybe a different role would intrigue him.

These moves would mean losing Small, but that's pretty much what has to be done. Johnson and Moose are in for sure, and Wright and Pavano are pretty much untradable; Small pitched well, but not well enough to push out Wang or Chacon, which means he's the seventh starter. And carrying two long men probably isn't a great idea. So Small is out, Wright is the long man and spot starter, and Henn is second in line.

The list of free agents came from this site: http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagent.html

EDIT: Depending on the price tags, I might stick with Gordon over Howry. But I really don't like Gordon, either.

EDIT: If you want to throw the re-signings of Matsui and Flaherty in there, that creates two extra steps.

JeffWeaverFan
11-03-05, 07:45 PM
Also, why would we re-sign Flaherty?

surge511
11-03-05, 07:48 PM
After the first 2 points, I really don't see any of those moves as helpful to the Yankees.

Wang's Groundballs
11-03-05, 08:11 PM
Step 2:
Sign Johnny Damon
The only other options for centerfield are Jacque Jones and Preston Wilson, and both leave a lot to be desired, especially in plate patience. Damon can be what Chuck Knoblauch was supposed to be years ago: a pesky speedster at the plate who sees a lot of pitches and gets on base, while playing solid defense. Look at the numbers; Damon is head-and-shoulders above anyone else. The only other option is to move Matsui to center and pick up a corner outfielder, but that doesn't help the defense, and there aren't any great corner outfielders on the market. More than the stats, Damon represents the type of ballplayer the Yankees once had and now need again.

He sees 3.7 P/PA; the AL average is 3.74. He averages .077 walks for every PA; the AL average is .078. Neither are bad, but he's not great, or even average, at either.

The type of ballplayer we need? Another overpriced, declining, and poor defensive player?

And stay far, far away from Molina. Have you checked out his CS numbers recently? They're nothing special. And he's fat, has had a lot of nagging injuries, and is going to cost a ................load.

Sam18
11-03-05, 08:18 PM
He sees 3.7 P/PA; the AL average is 3.74. He averages .077 walks for every PA; the AL average is .078. Neither are bad, but he's not great, or even average, at either.

The type of ballplayer we need? Another overpriced, declining, and poor defensive player?

And stay far, far away from Molina. Have you checked out his CS numbers recently? They're nothing special. And he's fat, has had a lot of nagging injuries, and is going to cost a ................load.

Also Molina led the AL in passed balls. We should stay FAR away from him.

whalers
11-03-05, 08:26 PM
Also Molina led the AL in passed balls. We should stay FAR away from him.

I dont like Molina too much either. If the Yankees are shopping for catchers I hope they check out B. Ausmus. I think it might be the same wishful thinking going on in the Giles corner since he wants to stay in the NL preferably SD.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3422219

One other thing NO Johnny Damon. He's not the solution or stop gap!

Sam18
11-03-05, 08:46 PM
I dont like Molina too much either. If the Yankees are shopping for catchers I hope they check out B. Ausmus. I think it might be the same wishful thinking going on in the Giles corner since he wants to stay in the NL preferably SD.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3422219

One other thing NO Johnny Damon. He's not the solution or stop gap!

I agree with everything you said except the part about going after another catcher. We already have one of the best ones in Posada and there's no use throwing money at it when we have other needs.

Mark19
11-03-05, 08:49 PM
It is kinda like that line from that Lit song

'been around the world to find that only stupid people are breeding, the cretons cloning and feeding, and I don't even own a tv'


So far I've heard about carrying 3 catchers, including a 39 year old John Flaherty, so Posada can be a backup 1b despite having only played 9 games at the position his entire career. Since Jorge is only making $14 million next season, he is a great bench option.

Now I am hearing that we eat the Mariners trash.
Pokey Reese missed the entire season with an injury and is only going to deteriorate at this point.
Scott Spiezio is now longer a decent Major Leaguer.
Sign Jose Cruz Jr? his body is torn apart and he can't possibly be a decent option for the Yankees at this stage in his career.
J Brent Cox? how about he pitches at AA before we give him a spot on the ML roster.
Gary Matthews Jr is not a starting CF!!! He has Womackian numbers against lefties and at the age of 31 he has a grand total of ONE decent season in the majors.
Since we are cutting payroll, we could always give Hollywood Damon $50 million to fall apart as a Yankee and be a burden in his mid-30s.

Oh, and giving Mendoza another contract is a BAD IDEA. How can we justify giving him another shot on the roster when Matt Smith and Colter Bean rot away in AAA? At least they still have some potential.

Next year is 2006, not 2001.

Rich
11-03-05, 08:54 PM
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.

WTF?

Rich
11-03-05, 08:55 PM
Also, re-signing Flaherty would be dumb.

yankeesrule2000
11-03-05, 09:02 PM
Those are 12 moves to put the yankees in last place.

YankeePride1967
11-03-05, 09:09 PM
I do not want John Flaherty on the team next year. Having a pretty much guaranteed 0-4 once a week is not an option.

YankeePride1967
11-03-05, 09:23 PM
The one name I'll mention is BJ Ryan, sign him. If he doesn't come, then pursue Wagner. (Both are not an option). I would then try to sign a secondary level pitcher that will be a reliable third reliever. Get a CFer and touch up the bench and I think we're ready to go.

yankees27
11-03-05, 10:10 PM
Jones is a better corner outfielder and not proven in centerfield, although the two of them can alternate positions and/or compete. My thinking here is to get Sheffield out of right field and use him as a DH for 100 games or so....
If you plan to play Jorge at first, and DH Sheff, where the hell do you put Giambi?

YankeePride1967
11-03-05, 10:21 PM
If you plan to play Jorge at first, and DH Sheff, where the hell do you put Giambi?

Center?

yankees27
11-03-05, 10:21 PM
Also Flaherty is 37 years old. A 37 year old back up catcher who can't hit. Not really sure why he should be a prime priority this off season.

brosiusbuddy
11-04-05, 12:02 AM
Also Flaherty is 37 years old. A 37 year old back up catcher who can't hit. Not really sure why he should be a prime priority this off season.

It'd be nice to have a catcher to call up from the farm.

sundstrom
11-04-05, 01:09 AM
sjp23-
what's gotten me with the whole matthews jr. thing for chacon/wang is that you've gone from calling him "terrific", to "above-average", to "solid". there have been some harsher than necessary comments towards your suggestions, but i think your dwindling appriciation of a 4th outfielder on the other side of 30 with an shaky history shows that perhaps you spoke before you thought. matthews jr. would be a nice part to the equation, but certainly not a fundamental piece. and regardless of how "unproven" you might feel they are, wang and chacon (#3 and #4 in the rotation) are more valuable than him.

someone else asked for suggestions if we were going to condemn your thoughts.

i would suggest the following:

trade pavano for CF or an outfielder that would allow Matsui to move to center. personally, i do a pavano for shawn green deal and put green in CF. but if you want to think bigger, i'd love this deal:

pavano
posada
proctor
ca$h

to SF for

matheny
feliz
ellison

this leaves lineup:

jeter ss
cano 2b
arod 3b
matsui lf
sheffield dh
giambi 1b
feliz rf
matheny c
ellison cf

defense is improved at C, CF, RF. offense is equal or better. pavano's spot in the rotation is easily removed: johson, mussina, wang, chacon, small, wright (or go ahead and sign washburn if you want).

Crusadecat
11-04-05, 11:00 AM
I do give you alot of credit for putting something out there to atleast debate.

nyankegreg
11-04-05, 12:20 PM
The only way I send Chacon or Wang to Texas is for a Mark Teixeira type guy in return... not a glorified Bubba Crosby

Mark19
11-04-05, 02:45 PM
sjp23-
what's gotten me with the whole matthews jr. thing for chacon/wang is that you've gone from calling him "terrific", to "above-average", to "solid". there have been some harsher than necessary comments towards your suggestions, but i think your dwindling appriciation of a 4th outfielder on the other side of 30 with an shaky history shows that perhaps you spoke before you thought. matthews jr. would be a nice part to the equation, but certainly not a fundamental piece. and regardless of how "unproven" you might feel they are, wang and chacon (#3 and #4 in the rotation) are more valuable than him.

someone else asked for suggestions if we were going to condemn your thoughts.

i would suggest the following:

trade pavano for CF or an outfielder that would allow Matsui to move to center. personally, i do a pavano for shawn green deal and put green in CF. but if you want to think bigger, i'd love this deal:

pavano
posada
proctor
ca$h

to SF for

matheny
feliz
ellison

this leaves lineup:

jeter ss
cano 2b
arod 3b
matsui lf
sheffield dh
giambi 1b
feliz rf
matheny c
ellison cf

defense is improved at C, CF, RF. offense is equal or better. pavano's spot in the rotation is easily removed: johson, mussina, wang, chacon, small, wright (or go ahead and sign washburn if you want).


I'm sure SF wants to take on nearly $50 million in payroll so Pavano can take away rotation spots from Noah Lowry and Matt Cain. Also, they brought in Matheny for his defense and his work with pitchers, they won't want Posada or his albatross contract. Proctor has minimal trade value, fireballers with poor control are a dime a dozen. Feliz and Ellison are young, cheap and productive -- you do not trade that for expensive veterans!

dogg
11-04-05, 09:02 PM
1. Re-sign Hideki Matsui
2. Sign BJ Ryan
3. Sign Ramon Hernandez
4. Sign Miguel Cairo
5. Sign Jarod Washburn
6. Sign Scott Sauerbeck
7. Sign Jacque Jones
8. Trade Chacon or Wang to Texas for Gary Matthews Jr.
9. Give Posada a 1st baseman's mitt for Christmas
10. Re-sign John Flaherty
11, Re-sign Ramiro Mendoza
12. Sign another utility infielder



2006 Roster
1B - Giambi (backup - Posada)
2B - Cano (backup - Cairo,utility player)
SS - Jeter (backup - Cairo,utility player)
3B - Rodriguez (backup - Cairo,utility player)
LF - Matsui (backup - N/A :),Crosby)
CF - Gary Matthews Jr. (backup - Crosby,Jones)
RF - Sheffield (backup - Crosby,Jones)
C - Hernandez (Posada,Flaherty)

Reserves - Posada, Cairo, Flaherty, Crosby, Jones, utility infielder

SP - Johnson,Mussina,Pavano,Washburn,Chacon or Wang
BP - Rivera,Ryan,Sturtze,Small,Sauerbeck,Mendoza


As I'm sure you can tell, I have given absolutely no thought to dollars spent, as I feel this should not be a concern to George-- let him spend whatever he needs to spend to get these guys signed...feel free to critique...try to do it constructively :)

I like this a little better:
Trade Cano to mets for Lastings Milledge
Sign Furcal
Sign Brian Giles
Sign BJ Ryan

Lineup:
Furcal 2b
Jeter ss
Giambi dh
Arod 3b
Giles rf
Sheffield 1b
Matsui lf
Posada c
Milledge cf

Now watch me get ripped for suggesting we trade Cano ;)

Matsui55
11-04-05, 10:50 PM
How about this instead- (assumes Matsui resigned and all other FA's leave)

1) The Yanks sign Ryan (LHP) (Set-up)

2) The Yanks trade Posada to Arizona for 2 prospects (doesn't matter if ML ready or not)

3) The Yanks sign Hernandez (C)

4) The Yanks sign Matthews (CF) (he will likely be non-tendered or released by Texas in December)

5) The Yanks trade Sheffield to the Cubs for OF Murton (to be depth in AAA or play RF/DH) and LHP Hill (bullpen)

6) The Yanks sign F. Thomas (DH) (Giambi plays 1B)

7) The Yanks bring in 10-12 non-tendered vet relievers to ST to compete with Henn, Smith, Bean and maybe Pope and DeSalvo- also allow Small to compete with Chacon for 5th starter, with loser to the pen (likely get 2 relievers from this whole group)

8) The Yanks allow Thompson to be the 25th man- to mainly be a PR, with occasional OF late inning D appearances

9) The Yanks bring in 5 veteran middle INF FA or non-tenders to compete for 2 spots in ST.

9) Wait until ST, and once Pavano proves health (May/June) trade him to Detroit or Seattle for 2 prospects

Kulish29
11-05-05, 12:32 AM
I would trade Wang for Zito.

That would be an awful trade.

27IsNext
11-05-05, 12:43 AM
5) The Yanks trade Sheffield to the Cubs for OF Murton (to be depth in AAA or play RF/DH) and LHP Hill (bullpen)

I love that idea. Would the Cubs do it?

AMYanks
11-05-05, 12:54 AM
I love that idea. Would the Cubs do it?

If they view that as a better option then re-signing Burnitz, then they might.

ppa79
11-05-05, 02:22 PM
My ideas:

Sign BJ Ryan = 24M/4yrs - lose 1st round pick
Sign Brian Giles = 36/3yrs - lose 2nd round pick
Sign Todd Pratt = 1M
Sign Travis Lee or JT Snow = 2M (whoever signs first and is the cheapest)
Sign Miguel Cairo = 1.5M
Sign Milton Bradley if he is non tendered or if he is not either trade for him or Wilkerson depending who is the cheapest to get.
Cut Tony Womack he is a complete waste of a roster spot
Let Gordon Sign somewhere else (we get the team's 1st round pick and get a supplementary pick if he signs with a team that is picking 16-30. This should offset the loss of losing our 1st and 2nd round pick for signing Ryan and Giles)

Sign Octavio Dotel to a contract similar to Lieber = 5M/2yrs

If available sign Daisuke Matsuzaka to 28M/4yrs (I'm just taking a guess here, I really don't know what it would take to sign him)
Most probably Matsuzaka would be in the bullpen in 2006, but in 2007 we could slide him into the rotation when we let Mussina go and buyout Wright's 2008 season for 4 Million since he's already spent more than 75 days on the DL.

Lineup

1- SS Jeter = 21M
2 -RF Giles = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36M/3yrs)
3- 3rd Arod = 20M
4- 1st Giambi = 19M
5- DH Sheffield = 13M
6- LF Matsui = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36/3yrs)
7- CF Bradley 3M (he should probably get around 3M in arbitration) or Wilkerson 5M (he should get probably around 5M in arbitration)
8- C Posada = 13.5M
9 -2nd Cano = .3M

Total = 113.8M with Bradley
Total = 115.8M with Wilkerson

Starters
10 - Johnson = 16M
11- Mussina = 19M
12- Pavano = 8M
13- Wright = 7.66M
14- Chacon = 3M (He should get around 3M in arbitration)

Total = 53.66M

Bullpen
15- Rivera = 10.5M
16- Small = .3M
17- Wang = .3M
18- Sturtze = 1.5M (assuming option is picked up) If Sturtze starts losing it again we have Dotel = 2.5M
19 - Ryan = 6M (assuming he signs a 24M/4yrs)
20 - Smith = .3M (If we get Matsuzaka(=7M), he probably take Smith's spot)

Total = 21.4 without Matsuzaka including Dotel
Total = 28.1 with Matsuzaka including Dotel

Bench
21 - Backup 1st - Lee or Snow = 2M (assuming he signs a 2M/1yr)
22 - Backup Catcher - Pratt = 1M (assuming he signs a 1M/1yr)
23 - Backup Infielder - Cairo = 1.5M (assuming he signs a 1.5M/1yr)
24 - 4th Outfielder - Crosby = .3M or Rivera = .3M or Kapler = .750M (These are just some ideas, I don't know what to do for the 4th Outfielder.)
25 - Backup infielder or outfielder = Pick one (Andy Phillips = .3M or Mike Vento = .3M Kevin Reese = .3M or Kevin Thompson = .3M)
Cut - Womack = 2M (Since I can't think of anyone that would want him, I would just cut him and eat the 2M. He is wasting a roster space)

Total = 7.1M

Total cost for 25 man roster =

Bradley and Matsuzaka = 202.66M
Bradley and no Matsuzaka = 195.96M
Wilkerson and Matsuzaka = 204.66
Wilkerson and no Matsuzaka = 197.96

Including Buyouts (I think these are all the buyouts)
Bernie Williams = 3.5M
Steve Karsay = 1.5M
Tino Martinez = .25M

Total = 5.25

Total cost =

Bradley and Matsuzaka = 207.91
Bradley and no Matsuzaka = 201.21
Wilkerson and Matsuzaka = 209.91
Wilkerson and no Matsuzaka = 203.21

I don’t think this year is the year to drastically reduce payroll especially 10%, too many big contracts and the talent in the minors isn’t ready to replace them, it will probably come next year and the year after when we lose after 2006 (Mussina = 17M, Sheffield = 13M, Womack = 2M, Sturtze = 1.5, Wright = 3M (we still have to give him a 4M buyout)) and after 2007 (Posada = 12M and Johnson = 16M). Our young guns (DeSlavo, White, Clippard, Cox, and Henn) should be ready by then.


The only trade I made was for Bradley or Wilkerson because that is one we have to make. I couldn't say just trade Posada, Pavano, or Wright because I don't know if there is a market for them so I had to bite the bullet and keep them and hopefully they can turn it around next season.

NewEraYanks2527
11-06-05, 04:34 PM
My ideas:

Sign BJ Ryan = 24M/4yrs - lose 1st round pick
Sign Brian Giles = 36/3yrs - lose 2nd round pick
Sign Todd Pratt = 1M
Sign Travis Lee or JT Snow = 2M (whoever signs first and is the cheapest)
Sign Miguel Cairo = 1.5M
Sign Milton Bradley if he is non tendered or if he is not either trade for him or Wilkerson depending who is the cheapest to get.
Cut Tony Womack he is a complete waste of a roster spot
Let Gordon Sign somewhere else (we get the team's 1st round pick and get a supplementary pick if he signs with a team that is picking 16-30. This should offset the loss of losing our 1st and 2nd round pick for signing Ryan and Giles)

Sign Octavio Dotel to a contract similar to Lieber = 5M/2yrs

If available sign Daisuke Matsuzaka to 28M/4yrs (I'm just taking a guess here, I really don't know what it would take to sign him)
Most probably Matsuzaka would be in the bullpen in 2006, but in 2007 we could slide him into the rotation when we let Mussina go and buyout Wright's 2008 season for 4 Million since he's already spent more than 75 days on the DL.

Lineup

1- SS Jeter = 19M
2 -RF Giles = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36M/3yrs)
3- 3rd Arod = 20M
4- 1st Giambi = 18M
5- DH Sheffield = 13M
6- LF Matsui = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36/3yrs)
7- CF Bradley 3M (he should probably get around 3M in arbitration) or Wilkerson 5M (he should get probably around 5M in arbitration)
8- C Posada = 8M
9 -2nd Cano = .3M

Total = 105.3M with Bradley
Total = 107.3M with Wilkerson

Starters
10 - Johnson = 16M
11- Mussina = 17M
12- Pavano = 8M
13- Wright = 7M
14- Chacon = 3M (He should get around 3M in arbitration)

Total = 51M

Bullpen
15- Rivera = 10.5M
16- Small = .3M
17- Wang = .3M
18- Sturtze = 1.5M (assuming option is picked up) If Sturtze starts losing it again we have Dotel = 2.5M
19 - Ryan = 6M (assuming he signs a 24M/4yrs)
20 - Smith = .3M (If we get Matsuzaka(=7M), he probably take Smith's spot)

Total = 22.4 without Matsuzaka
Total = 29.1 with Matsuzaka

Bench
21 - Backup 1st - Lee or Snow = 2M (assuming he signs a 2M/1yr)
22 - Backup Catcher - Pratt = 1M (assuming he signs a 1M/1yr)
23 - Backup Infielder - Cairo = 1.5M (assuming he signs a 1.5M/1yr)
24 - 4th Outfielder - Crosby = .3M or Rivera = .3M or Kapler = .750M (These are just some ideas, I don't know what to do for the 4th Outfielder.)
25 - Backup infielder or outfielder = Pick one (Andy Phillips = .3M or Mike Vento = .3M Kevin Reese = .3M or Kevin Thompson = .3M)
Cut - Womack = 2M (Since I can't think of anyone that would want him, I would just cut him and eat the 2M. He is wasting a roster space)

Total = 7.1M

Total cost for 25 man roster = 191.5M

Including Buyouts (I think these are all the buyouts)
Bernie Williams = 3.5M
Steve Karsay = 1.5M
Tino Martinez = .25M

Total = 5.25

Total cost = 196.75M

I don’t think this year is the year to drastically reduce payroll, too many big contracts and the talent in the minors isn’t ready to replace them, it will probably come next year and the year after when we lose after 2006 (Mussina = 17M, Sheffield = 13M, Womack = 2M, Sturtze = 1.5, Wright = 3M (we still have to give him a 4M buyout)) and after 2007 (Posada = 12M and Johnson = 16M). Our young guns (DeSlavo, White, Clippard, and Henn) should be ready by then.


The only trade I made was for Bradley or Wilkerson because that is one we have to make. I couldn't say just trade Posada, Pavano, or Wright because I don't know if there is a market for them so I had to bite the bullet and keep them and hopefully they can turn it around next season.
That is a very excellent, well thought out post, please email it to Cashman. Although I dont think Matsuzaka is available this year.

Maynerd
11-08-05, 03:21 PM
Where is Jaret Wright?
This is a question most of his employers have been asking for about the last six years.

I Love Wang
11-08-05, 03:25 PM
My ideas:

Sign BJ Ryan = 24M/4yrs - lose 1st round pick
Sign Brian Giles = 36/3yrs - lose 2nd round pick
Sign Todd Pratt = 1M
Sign Travis Lee or JT Snow = 2M (whoever signs first and is the cheapest)
Sign Miguel Cairo = 1.5M
Sign Milton Bradley if he is non tendered or if he is not either trade for him or Wilkerson depending who is the cheapest to get.
Cut Tony Womack he is a complete waste of a roster spot
Let Gordon Sign somewhere else (we get the team's 1st round pick and get a supplementary pick if he signs with a team that is picking 16-30. This should offset the loss of losing our 1st and 2nd round pick for signing Ryan and Giles)

Sign Octavio Dotel to a contract similar to Lieber = 5M/2yrs

If available sign Daisuke Matsuzaka to 28M/4yrs (I'm just taking a guess here, I really don't know what it would take to sign him)
Most probably Matsuzaka would be in the bullpen in 2006, but in 2007 we could slide him into the rotation when we let Mussina go and buyout Wright's 2008 season for 4 Million since he's already spent more than 75 days on the DL.

Lineup

1- SS Jeter = 19M
2 -RF Giles = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36M/3yrs)
3- 3rd Arod = 20M
4- 1st Giambi = 18M
5- DH Sheffield = 13M
6- LF Matsui = 12M (Assuming he would sign a 36/3yrs)
7- CF Bradley 3M (he should probably get around 3M in arbitration) or Wilkerson 5M (he should get probably around 5M in arbitration)
8- C Posada = 8M
9 -2nd Cano = .3M

Total = 105.3M with Bradley
Total = 107.3M with Wilkerson

Starters
10 - Johnson = 16M
11- Mussina = 17M
12- Pavano = 8M
13- Wright = 7M
14- Chacon = 3M (He should get around 3M in arbitration)

Total = 51M

Bullpen
15- Rivera = 10.5M
16- Small = .3M
17- Wang = .3M
18- Sturtze = 1.5M (assuming option is picked up) If Sturtze starts losing it again we have Dotel = 2.5M
19 - Ryan = 6M (assuming he signs a 24M/4yrs)
20 - Smith = .3M (If we get Matsuzaka(=7M), he probably take Smith's spot)

Total = 22.4 without Matsuzaka
Total = 29.1 with Matsuzaka

Bench
21 - Backup 1st - Lee or Snow = 2M (assuming he signs a 2M/1yr)
22 - Backup Catcher - Pratt = 1M (assuming he signs a 1M/1yr)
23 - Backup Infielder - Cairo = 1.5M (assuming he signs a 1.5M/1yr)
24 - 4th Outfielder - Crosby = .3M or Rivera = .3M or Kapler = .750M (These are just some ideas, I don't know what to do for the 4th Outfielder.)
25 - Backup infielder or outfielder = Pick one (Andy Phillips = .3M or Mike Vento = .3M Kevin Reese = .3M or Kevin Thompson = .3M)
Cut - Womack = 2M (Since I can't think of anyone that would want him, I would just cut him and eat the 2M. He is wasting a roster space)

Total = 7.1M

Total cost for 25 man roster = 191.5M

Including Buyouts (I think these are all the buyouts)
Bernie Williams = 3.5M
Steve Karsay = 1.5M
Tino Martinez = .25M

Total = 5.25

Total cost = 196.75M

I don’t think this year is the year to drastically reduce payroll, too many big contracts and the talent in the minors isn’t ready to replace them, it will probably come next year and the year after when we lose after 2006 (Mussina = 17M, Sheffield = 13M, Womack = 2M, Sturtze = 1.5, Wright = 3M (we still have to give him a 4M buyout)) and after 2007 (Posada = 12M and Johnson = 16M). Our young guns (DeSlavo, White, Clippard, and Henn) should be ready by then.


The only trade I made was for Bradley or Wilkerson because that is one we have to make. I couldn't say just trade Posada, Pavano, or Wright because I don't know if there is a market for them so I had to bite the bullet and keep them and hopefully they can turn it around next season.

Why would we keep Wright and Pavano both in the rotation over Wang, who outperformed them both.

27IsNext
11-08-05, 03:36 PM
*If Matsuzaka gets posted, sign him and trade Pavano.
1.) Re-sign Matsui.
2.) Cut Womack. Trade Small.
3.) Sign B.J. Ryan, Octavio Dotel, and Bobby Howry.
4.) Trade Sheffield to the Chicago Cubs for RFer Matt Murton and LHRP Rich Hill.
5.) Trade Melky Cabrera to the Nationals for Brad Wilkerson.
6.) Sign Eduardo Perez to be a PH off the bench/backup DH. Sign a good backup catcher (suggestions anyone?). Let Felix Escalona, Kevin Thompson, and Andy Phillips be on the bench as well.
7.) See if we can get Giles to come and platoon with Matsui as LFer/DH. If not, sign Frank Thomas to be full-time DH.

C Jorge Posada
1B Jason Giambi
2B Robinson Cano
SS Derek Jeter
3B Alex Rodriguez
LF Hideki Matsui
CF Brad Wilkerson
RF Matt Murton
DH Brian Giles/Frank Thomas

Backup C: (again, suggestions anyone?)
Backup 1B: Andy Phillips
Backup IFer: Felix Escalona
Backup OFer: Kevin Thompson
PH/Backup DH: Eduardo Perez

SP Randy Johnson
SP Mike Mussina
SP Daisuke Matsuzaka/Carl Pavano
SP Chien-Ming Wang
SP Shawn Chacon

6th Starter/Long Reliever: Jaret Wright
RP: Rich Hill
RP: Octavio Dotel
RP: Bob Howry
SU: B.J. Ryan
CL: Mariano Rivera

ppa79
11-08-05, 04:02 PM
Why would we keep Wright and Pavano both in the rotation over Wang, who outperformed them both.

That's interchangable, keep Wang in the rotation and either move Pavano or Wright into the pen.

27IsNext
11-08-05, 08:05 PM
Backup 1B: Andy Phillips

Only hours after I called it, lo and behold, Cashman says Phillips will back up Giambi.

brosiusbuddy
11-08-05, 08:15 PM
Only hours after I called it, lo and behold, Cashman says Phillips will back up Giambi.

Lets hope he learns how to hit pitches other than mediocre fastballs.

27IsNext
11-08-05, 08:28 PM
Lets hope he learns how to hit pitches other than mediocre fastballs.

He was never given ample time to recover after his long slump following his big bang entry.

brosiusbuddy
11-08-05, 08:33 PM
He was never given ample time to recover after his long slump following his big bang entry.

I don't know if it was as simple as a slump or his unfamiliarity and inability to hit breaking balls.

I Love Wang
11-08-05, 10:25 PM
I don't know if it was as simple as a slump or his unfamiliarity and inability to hit breaking balls.

The idea that Phillips can't hit breaking pitches is fallacy. He has been extremely successful in AAA. In AAA, they throw breaking pitches. Just ask Drew Henson.

Rich
11-08-05, 10:27 PM
He only got 40 freakin' ABs.

Yankees1962
11-08-05, 10:28 PM
I think some of you are going to be really disappointed over the amount of money the Yankees don't spend this off-season. The Yankees might sign two free agent relief pitchers and make a couple of minor trades for Bradley, Patterson or Wilkerson and that's about it.

Rich
11-08-05, 10:29 PM
I think some of you are going to be really disappointed over the amount of money the Yankees don't spend this off-season.

I'm psyched.

Yankees1962
11-08-05, 10:31 PM
I'm psyched.
I am too, for once the Yankees might be attempting to outsmart their competitors instead of outspending them.

I Love Wang
11-08-05, 10:32 PM
I like this a little better:
Trade Cano to mets for Lastings Milledge
Sign Furcal
Sign Brian Giles
Sign BJ Ryan

Lineup:
Furcal 2b
Jeter ss
Giambi dh
Arod 3b
Giles rf
Sheffield 1b
Matsui lf
Posada c
Milledge cf

Now watch me get ripped for suggesting we trade Cano ;)

The problem is that you think Lastings Milledge, 20 years old, and having played 48 games at AA, is major league ready. He's probably a year away. And why would Fucal hit ahead of Jeter? You're going to have Giles hit 5th and Sheffield 6th so that Furcal can lead off?

buntsalot2
11-08-05, 10:33 PM
The idea that Phillips can't hit breaking pitches is fallacy. He has been extremely successful in AAA. In AAA, they throw breaking pitches. Just ask Drew Henson.

Drew who? Isn't he the football player who was so confused that he woke up one morning and SURPRISE!!!! he was on the wrong playing field with these funny looking little marshmellow footballs to play with... musta been worse than a groin pull... doin da disco wit Olivia!

Rich
11-08-05, 10:38 PM
Drew who? Isn't he the football player who was so confused that he woke up one morning and SURPRISE!!!! he was on the wrong playing field with these funny looking little marshmellow footballs to play with... musta been worse than a groin pull... doin da disco wit Olivia!

Actually, Henson was on track to the majors until the Reds messed him up.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/drew-henson.shtml

YankeePride1967
11-08-05, 10:46 PM
I think some of you are going to be really disappointed over the amount of money the Yankees don't spend this off-season. The Yankees might sign two free agent relief pitchers and make a couple of minor trades for Bradley, Patterson or Wilkerson and that's about it.

If we do that and fortify our bench a bit (just looking for some players that can field a position some) I'll be happy.

brosiusbuddy
11-08-05, 11:07 PM
The idea that Phillips can't hit breaking pitches is fallacy. He has been extremely successful in AAA. In AAA, they throw breaking pitches. Just ask Drew Henson.

First of all, let me start off by saying that I'm not sure what type of hitter Phillips really is. I haven't seen him enough. I also want to say I like the idea of using him as a backup. I also want to say I was not declaring he cannot hit breaking pitches, but rather suggesting based on my limited knowledge of him, that such could be the case.

Secondly, breaking pitches in the minors are not quite the same as breaking pitches in the majors. In the majors you are going to be facing a lot of good pitchers who have a good variety of pitches and can use them effectively and to their advantage. In the minors you will face a lot of guys who are trying to develop a breaking pitch to try to get to the next level or who aren't yet able to use their pitches as effectively as they can be used or who simply don't have a breaking pitch.

You can have good AAA and AA numbers and still not be a good breaking ball hitter. See Mitch Jones.

AMYanks
11-08-05, 11:42 PM
I'm psyched.

Ditto.

Matsui55
11-09-05, 07:16 AM
The idea that Phillips can't hit breaking pitches is fallacy. He has been extremely successful in AAA. In AAA, they throw breaking pitches. Just ask Drew Henson.

Yeah, but he couldn't hit a FB either. I just watched the guy implode the more AB's he got in that stretch until Joe had no choice but to bench him because he was alamost a guaranteed K every 2nd time to the plate.

I'll say this again (I have no idea of how many times I've said this now)- just because you can hit well in AAA does NOT mean that you will be a successful ML hitter. There are thousands of players who hit like Tarzan in the minors only to hit like Jane in the bigs. I simply suspect that Phillips is another AAAA player.

The guy made no adjustments to the adjustments ML pitchers made, and became an absolute K machine. Unless and until he demonstrates that he can at least make contact, he should not even be considered for a spot outside of Columbus.

Yankees1962
11-09-05, 07:40 AM
Yeah, but he couldn't hit a FB either. I just watched the guy implode the more AB's he got in that stretch until Joe had no choice but to bench him because he was alamost a guaranteed K every 2nd time to the plate.

I'll say this again (I have no idea of how many times I've said this now)- just because you can hit well in AAA does NOT mean that you will be a successful ML hitter. There are thousands of players who hit like Tarzan in the minors only to hit like Jane in the bigs. I simply suspect that Phillips is another AAAA player.

The guy made no adjustments to the adjustments ML pitchers made, and became an absolute K machine. Unless and until he demonstrates that he can at least make contact, he should not even be considered for a spot outside of Columbus.
I don't think it's fair to judge a player like that with only a total of 40 AB's for the whole season.

27IsNext
11-09-05, 11:01 AM
Yeah, but he couldn't hit a FB either. I just watched the guy implode the more AB's he got in that stretch until Joe had no choice but to bench him because he was alamost a guaranteed K every 2nd time to the plate.

I'll say this again (I have no idea of how many times I've said this now)- just because you can hit well in AAA does NOT mean that you will be a successful ML hitter. There are thousands of players who hit like Tarzan in the minors only to hit like Jane in the bigs. I simply suspect that Phillips is another AAAA player.

The guy made no adjustments to the adjustments ML pitchers made, and became an absolute K machine. Unless and until he demonstrates that he can at least make contact, he should not even be considered for a spot outside of Columbus.

He had 40 ABs...

George Steinbrenner
11-09-05, 05:20 PM
no. I agree with #1 and #2 but the rest of these ideas are crazy