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Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:33 PM
Nixon was on 2nd and it said on gameday that Olerud singled but that Nixon was out at 3rd? What happened?
If he was out at home I would have understood because of another Sveum performance but why was he out at third?

WebsterMulligan
07-25-05, 09:35 PM
:roflmao:

Nixon was hit with the ball advancing to third. He was called out, due to interference. Hopefully, it will cost the Red Sox the game.

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:38 PM
Tampa has to be the biggest idiots alive though, they have Crawford on 1st with 0 outs and they swing at the first pitch not giving him a chance to steal second which he probably would have. Giving them a runner in scoring positon with 0 outs.

keithf1
07-25-05, 09:38 PM
Tampa just won :) and Schilling lost the game :) :)

BroadwayBomber55
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
:roflmao:

Nixon was hit with the ball advancing to third. Hopefully, it will cost the Red Sox the game.

It cost them the game. Not only Trot Nixon's blunder cost them the game, the Red Sox had the bases loaded in the 9th and didn't score. OUCH!

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
Hahahaha fat boy blew it anyway:D

Darth_Takeo
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
How sad.

LeapsNbounds
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
1 game back baby!!

WebsterMulligan
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
D-Rays win 4-3 in ten innings.

Suck on that, Curt! :D

hardrain
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
Schoompy just gave up the game winning hit. Sox lose and Yanks and Sox are tied in the loss column :)

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
I love seeing Schilling fail:)
1 game back now people with 2 games in hand.

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
Schilling blew the save. :D (It was still a save situation, right?)

I caught the last couple of innings of the game, and both teams had baserunning boo-boos.

metalyank
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
Huff doubles off Schilling, Cantu scores, DRays win!!!!! Schilling cries. yeah!!!

-tz
07-25-05, 09:39 PM
Tampa just won :) and Schilling lost the game :) :):P

Aubrey Huff got the winning RBI! :cool:

One game back. :)

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:40 PM
D-Rays win 4-3 in ten innings.

Suck on that, Curt! :D


:) The Cookie Monster prevails:)

WebsterMulligan
07-25-05, 09:40 PM
It cost them the game. Not only Trot Nixon's blunder cost them the game, the Red Sox had the bases loaded in the 9th and didn't score. OUCH!

:roflmao:

NYYBombshell
07-25-05, 09:41 PM
Schmoopy blew another save. *does jig of glee*

Now we're 1 game behind Boston AND Ballymore lost too.

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:41 PM
It cost them the game. Not only Trot Nixon's blunder cost them the game, the Red Sox had the bases loaded in the 9th and didn't score. OUCH!


With 2 outs though, but still they had Manny at the plate so I guess it hurts.
Oh well:D

WebsterMulligan
07-25-05, 09:41 PM
Schilling blew the save. :D (It was still a save situation, right?)


No. The game was tied when he entered the game, IIRC.

-tz
07-25-05, 09:41 PM
Schilling blew the save. :D (It was still a save situation, right?)I don't think it counts as a BS since he came in when the score was tied. It's just a good old-fashioned loss.:P

BroadwayBomber55
07-25-05, 09:41 PM
Schilling blew the save. :D (It was still a save situation, right?)

I caught the last couple of innings of the game, and both teams had baserunning boo-boos.

No Mike Timlin blew the save. Curt Schilling was still in there in a 3-3 contest.

scull567
07-25-05, 09:42 PM
What a stupid play by nixon. He's got to realize that their are two outs. You play the ball off the wall and hold the guys on 2nd and third.

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:42 PM
Those D-rays sure are scrappy.

Game. Set. Match.

Suck on it, Curt! :D

MassNYYfan
07-25-05, 09:42 PM
Glad we aren't the only ones who can lose to the D-Rays. :)

hardrain
07-25-05, 09:42 PM
It's as good as Yank win....

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 09:44 PM
No. The game was tied when he entered the game, IIRC.

No Mike Timlin blew the save. Curt Schilling was still in there in a 3-3 contest.

I don't think it counts as a BS since he came in when the score was tied. It's just a good old-fashioned loss.:P
Thank you for the quick responses! :)

A Timlin blown save and a Schilling loss is still OK by me. :D

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:44 PM
It's as good as Yank win....


:-werd-:

BoSox37
07-25-05, 09:44 PM
Schmoopy blew another save. *does jig of glee*

Now we're 1 game behind Boston AND Ballymore lost too.

Not a blown save, the game was tied when he came in.

Scull is right, Nixon had no chance at making a catch there, he needs to play the ball off the wall. What a ................ty game. Timlin has to be the worst reliever with an ERA under 1.50 in the history of baseball. God that sucked. Can't blame Schill for the loss tonight, he actually had great stuff.

Mattpat11
07-25-05, 09:44 PM
I'm not sure Big Schill quite understands this whole "closer" thing.

Either that, or he saw that Wells got such a head start on the post game buffet and needed to make up ground.

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:45 PM
BTW where is Gherig38?
Oh thats right, he is fat and is busy inflating his ERA and loss column:D

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:46 PM
I'm not sure Big Schill quite understands this whole "closer" thing.

Either that, or he saw that Wells got such a head start on the post game buffet and needed to make up ground.


:lol:

The latter :lol: :lol: :lol:

NYYBombshell
07-25-05, 09:46 PM
Not a blown save, the game was tied when he came in.

Scull is right, Nixon had no chance at making a catch there, he needs to play the ball off the wall. What a ................ty game. Timlin has to be the worst reliever with an ERA under 1.50 in the history of baseball. God that sucked. Can't blame Schill for the loss tonight, he actually had great stuff.


So what? He blew the game. Save, game.....what's the difference?


That was an important game we just earned.

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:47 PM
Is Kazmir starting the last game of the series? :evil:

scull567
07-25-05, 09:47 PM
Is Kazmir starting the last game of the series? :evil:

Thankfully he isnt.

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 09:47 PM
What a stupid play by nixon. He's got to realize that their are two outs. You play the ball off the wall and hold the guys on 2nd and third.What I didn't get was Remy & Orsillo saying that Nixon didn't have time to get out of the way of the ball.

Of course he didn't have a hell of a lot of time, but watching it again on my TiVo it appeared that Trot was looking right at Olerud as the ball was hit then froze like a deer in the headlights.

(EDIT: Now I see which Nixon play you mean. Bad reading comprehension there. Anyway, my baserunning comment still stands, though. And I agree with your comment above on the fielding play.)

LeapsNbounds
07-25-05, 09:48 PM
Schilling blew the save. :D (It was still a save situation, right?)

I caught the last couple of innings of the game, and both teams had baserunning boo-boos.

I think he just gets a L

hardrain
07-25-05, 09:48 PM
BTW where is Gherig38?
Oh thats right, he is fat and is busy inflating his ERA and loss column:D

According to Game Day, right before he gave up the game winning hit, his ERA was 6.66. I take this as a good sign.

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:49 PM
Thankfully he isnt.

What a shame. A damn shame. :(

Gringaloca
07-25-05, 09:49 PM
:D :D HAHAHAHAHAAAA I was following the game on mlb.tv. :D 10th inning loss for 'Schmoopy' as the 'closer'?.. ;)

Sorry...but this couldn't have happened at a better time... :D
If you can't 'close' the game, Curt...maybe now you'll 'close your mouth'!! ;)

Kluivert4Ever
07-25-05, 09:50 PM
According to Game Day, right before he gave up the game winning hit, his ERA was 6.66. I take this as a good sign.


I noticed that as well:)
I wonder if he gets a double cheesburger for every run he gives up though?
He seems so motivated out there.

cubswin
07-25-05, 09:51 PM
So what? He blew the game. Save, game.....what's the difference? ...

One's a blown save, one's a loss -- that's the only difference.

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:51 PM
Man, the D-rays just annihilate the AL East. Anybody know what their record is against this division?

YankeePride1967
07-25-05, 09:52 PM
Great night. Don't play and still pick up 1/2 a game on Boston and because Baltimore lost on them too.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 09:52 PM
So what? He blew the game. Save, game.....what's the difference?


That was an important game we just earned.


He gets the loss and you guys gain a half game in the standings. I understand that, I am not an idiot.

The difference is, this loss was not Schill's fault. He had good stuff, especially compared to the last time he pitched (even though he got the win then). Despite picking up an L, Curt had very good stuff tonight. That is all I am saying. Based on the replies in this thread, you wouls think Curt got shelled. I know you guys are Yankees fans, and you are happy about the D-Rays win. That's fine, you should be. All I am trying to say is that as a Sox fan, I am encouraged by Curt's stuff tonight, regardless of the outcome of the game.

BroadwayBomber55
07-25-05, 09:52 PM
The rulings involving baserunners is at MLB.com:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp

BoSox37
07-25-05, 09:53 PM
Man, the D-rays just annihilate the AL East. Anybody know what their record is against this division?


After tonight, 20-22.

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 09:53 PM
http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif HAHAHAHAHAAAA I was following the game on mlb.tv. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif 10th inning loss for 'Schmoopy' as the 'closer'?.. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Sorry...but this couldn't have happened at a better time... http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
If you can't 'close' the game, Curt...maybe now you'll 'close your mouth'!! http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gifI think this is his passive-aggressive way of forcing Francona to put him back in the starting rotation.

http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/icon28.gif http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Mattpat11
07-25-05, 09:54 PM
Not a blown save, the game was tied when he came in.

Scull is right, Nixon had no chance at making a catch there, .If he doesn't inexplicably jump straight up in the air at the end and continues running, he has a shot at a shoestring catch.

And then he just totally ................ed up after it fell.

This whole thing being Trot and Schill's fault is almost even better than the loss itself.

NYYBombshell
07-25-05, 09:55 PM
He gets the loss and you guys gain a half game in the standings. I understand that, I am not an idiot.

The difference is, this loss was not Schill's fault. He had good stuff, especially compared to the last time he pitched (even though he got the win then). Despite picking up an L, Curt had very good stuff tonight. That is all I am saying. Based on the replies in this thread, you wouls think Curt got shelled. I know you guys are Yankees fans, and you are happy about the D-Rays win. That's fine, you should be. All I am trying to say is that as a Sox fan, I am encouraged by Curt's stuff tonight, regardless of the outcome of the game.


Look, I'm not trying to be a bitch. He does have good stuff, I mean he struck out the first 2 D'Rays he faced in the 9th, but much like the first game of the series against us, one bad pitch negated all that. He still has an ERA over 6, which is higher than most of our pitching staff.

That's something that Boston needs to worry about (I'd be happy if they forgot about that, though ;) ) if they plan to make the playoffs.

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:56 PM
maybe now you'll 'close your mouth'!! ;)

Don't hold your breath, girl. ;) Curt is quite enamored with the sound of his voice and the sound of his own key strokes for that matter. :eek:

NYYBombshell
07-25-05, 09:56 PM
I think this is his passive-aggressive way of forcing Francona to put him back in the starting rotation.

http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/icon28.gif http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



Yes. That way he can blow the WHOLE game, and not just the end. I'm all for that.........in my greedy, Yankee-loving own little way.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 09:56 PM
If he doesn't inexplicably jump straight up in the air at the end and continues running, he has a shot at a shoestring catch.

And then he just totally ................ed up after it fell.

This whole thing being Trot and Schill's fault is almost even better than the loss itself.


No matter what, he wasn't going to catch that ball, and once it dropped, he had to much momentum to turn around quickly and chase the ball down. And again, the loss was not Curt's fault. There are a lot of people on this team that deserve more blame than Curt for tonight's L.

scull567
07-25-05, 09:57 PM
If he doesn't inexplicably jump straight up in the air at the end and continues running, he has a shot at a shoestring catch.

And then he just totally ................ed up after it fell.

This whole thing being Trot and Schill's fault is almost even better than the loss itself.

Also, the situation is 2 outs with a runner on 1s so you need to play no-doubles defense, meaning you play very very deep. In that circumstance, a ball should not go over your head. He should not have been in a position where he had to make a running catch, Simply stupid baseball by the sox.

yeahimweird
07-25-05, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure Big Schill quite understands this whole "closer" thing.

Either that, or he saw that Wells got such a head start on the post game buffet and needed to make up ground.

You didn't go there.

:lol: :lol:

True Yankee-ette13
07-25-05, 09:57 PM
After tonight, 20-22.

That's not bad at all, considering their overall record. Better than the yankees record against AL East teams, I believe. :dunno:

S2
07-25-05, 09:58 PM
Three things that weren't completely Schilling's fault:

1: Millar and his stone hands at first allows the tying run on in the 7th (IIRC). Olerud more than likely makes the play. That runner eventually scores the tying run.

2: Nixon not getting out of the way of the groundball. It was hit hard, but c'mon, get out of the way.

3: Nixon's defense on Huff's hit. Yeah, Schilling gave it up, but Nixon has to realize the situation: runner on 1st, 2 out. Don't let it get behind you.

cubswin
07-25-05, 09:58 PM
Also, the situation is 2 outs with a runner on 1s so you need to play no-doubles defense, meaning you play very very deep. In that circumstance, a ball should not go over your head. He should not have been in a position where he had to make a running catch, Simply stupid baseball by the sox.

Francona doesn't seem to buy into that concept, for some reason -- doesn;t have players guard the lines, etc.

Mattpat11
07-25-05, 09:58 PM
He gets the loss and you guys gain a half game in the standings. I understand that, I am not an idiot.

The difference is, this loss was not Schill's fault. He had good stuff, especially compared to the last time he pitched (even though he got the win then). Despite picking up an L, Curt had very good stuff tonight. That is all I am saying. Based on the replies in this thread, you wouls think Curt got shelled. I know you guys are Yankees fans, and you are happy about the D-Rays win. That's fine, you should be. All I am trying to say is that as a Sox fan, I am encouraged by Curt's stuff tonight, regardless of the outcome of the game. Problem is, that doesn't work for closers. There's no room for error in that job. Rivera has blown saves while having pretty decent stuff before, but he still blew the save. You can have good sruff all you want. As a closer, you cannot give up booming doubles off the right field wall with runners on base. That makes you a miserable failure in that spot.

Thats why we're happy.

WebsterMulligan
07-25-05, 09:59 PM
TH: Trot Nixon.

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 10:01 PM
Problem is, that doesn't work for closers. There's no room for error in that job. Rivera has blown saves while having pretty decent stuff before, but he still blew the save. You can have good sruff all you want. As a closer, you cannot give up booming doubles off the right field wall with runners on base. That makes you a miserable failure in that spot.

Thats why we're happy.Bingo. I was just starting to write something very similar, but your post above nails it.

Tonight's loss was Schilling's fault, plain & simple. Nixon helped with his poor fielding, but the ball shouldn't have been hit like that to begin with. That's an insanely small margin of error, but such is the life of a bigtime closer.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 10:04 PM
Look, I'm not trying to be a bitch. He does have good stuff, I mean he struck out the first 2 D'Rays he faced in the 9th, but much like the first game of the series against us, one bad pitch negated all that. He still has an ERA over 6, which is higher than most of our pitching staff.

That's something that Boston needs to worry about (I'd be happy if they forgot about that, though ;) ) if they plan to make the playoffs.


He didn't make a bad pitch, Huff took a great swing. The splitter he hit actually had a lot of movement, that was a great piece of hitting. THe baserunner that scored the winning run was on because Crawford hit a weak ground ball with tons of spin on it and he barely beat it out. If anyone else on the D-Rays hit a ball like that they would be out by three steps. Curt's ERA is inflated due to his awful 3 starts in April. Out of the pen, he has given up 4 ER in 8 2/3, an ERA of just over 4. Not good by closer's standards, but not terrible.

As for the pen, Foulke should be back soon (around mid-August). Until then, if Schill goes back to the rotation,hopefully we catch lightening in a bottle with Delcarmen, or Timlin can close for a couple weeks.

hardrain
07-25-05, 10:04 PM
Great night. Don't play and still pick up 1/2 a game on Boston and because Baltimore lost on them too.

Now, if those A's would ever lose again....

Mattpat11
07-25-05, 10:04 PM
3: Nixon's defense on Huff's hit. Yeah, Schilling gave it up, but Nixon has to realize the situation: runner on 1st, 2 out. Don't let it get behind you. Or if you're going to stop chasing it, at least jump in the direction of the ball. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but when he realized that he'd have a tough play, he stopped at jumped straight up, parallel to the wall. Which prevented him from catching the ball and also being in the position to play the ball off the wall.

Gringaloca
07-25-05, 10:04 PM
Don't hold your breath, girl. ;) Curt is quite enamored with the sound of his voice and the sound of his own key strokes for that matter. :eek:

I hear ya. :) ..but maybe he needs some Krispy Kreme locations in Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater area to pacify himself tonight. http://clients.mapquest.com/krispy/mqinterconnect
I have a feeling we won't be seeing 'gehrig38' posting here anytime in the near future. ;)

scull567
07-25-05, 10:07 PM
Bingo. I was just starting to write something very similar, but your post above nails it.

Tonight's loss was Schilling's fault, plain & simple. Nixon helped with his poor fielding, but the ball shouldn't have been hit like that to begin with. That's an insanely small margin of error, but such is the life of a bigtime closer.

Did you watch the game? Schilling takes some blame but others contributed more to the loss than he did. 1) Renteria bobbling a hopper up the middle which leads to a run 2) Millar failing to scoop a ball from Renteria leading to another run 3) Renteria with 1 & 3 - 1 out, flails at a pitch in a hitters count and hits it to the pitcher - run doesnt score 4) Stern was on third during that play and freezes and is thrown out 5) Francona choosing Timlin over Bradford who is more apt to get a doublel play. Yes Schill got the lost and deserves some blame but others are much more responsible. He had already pitch a scoreless 9th and the game should have been won there.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 10:07 PM
Problem is, that doesn't work for closers. There's no room for error in that job. Rivera has blown saves while having pretty decent stuff before, but he still blew the save. You can have good sruff all you want. As a closer, you cannot give up booming doubles off the right field wall with runners on base. That makes you a miserable failure in that spot.

Thats why we're happy.


Were you watching the game? The pitch Huff hit was a good pitch. A splitter with good movement. Huff just happened to put a great swing on it. It is not like Curt was throwing flat splitters and 85 MPH heaters. It is comarable to Rivera in game 4 of the ALCS. He blew the game, but it was not because he had bad stuff, he got unlucky.

cubswin
07-25-05, 10:08 PM
He didn't make a bad pitch, Huff took a great swing. The splitter he hit actually had a lot of movement, that was a great piece of hitting...

As for the pen, Foulke should be back soon (around mid-August). Until then, if Schill goes back to the rotation,hopefully we catch lightening in a bottle with Delcarmen, or Timlin can close for a couple weeks.

Actually, I think it was a bad pitch, b/c he missed over the plate when his target was outside. That in and of itself may not ahve been a problem, but I think Huff was looking to get a pitch he could drive b/c Schilling had left the pitch immediately prior right over the plate, too, but Huff watched that one.

(And is Foulke really expected back mid-Aug? Has he started rehab yet?)

S2
07-25-05, 10:10 PM
4) Stern was on third during that play and freezes and is thrown out
Damn, I should have added that to my list. They played a pretty crappy game. Sure, Schilling got the loss, but a bunch of players contributed. Timlin should never, ever enter a tight game with a runner on. He must not like his fellow pitchers.

MiamiKat
07-25-05, 10:11 PM
Did you watch the game? Schilling takes some blame but others contributed more to the loss than he did. 1) Renteria bobbling a hopper up the middle which leads to a run 2) Millar failing to scoop a ball from Renteria leading to another run 3) Renteria with 1 & 3 - 1 out, flails at a pitch in a hitters count and hits it to the pitcher - run doesnt score 4) Stern was on third during that play and freezes and is thrown out 5) Francona choosing Timlin over Bradford who is more apt to get a doublel play. Yes Schill got the lost and deserves some blame but others are much more responsible. He had already pitch a scoreless 9th and the game should have been won there.I watched the 8th - 10th innings. Mistakes were made by both teams, IIRC.

But what leads up to a closer's time on the mound is irrelevant, frankly. It's up to him as a pitcher to stop the other team from scoring runs, and if he fails the loss is his fault.

I'll bet Schilling himself would say the same thing.

Mattpat11
07-25-05, 10:12 PM
It is comarable to Rivera in game 4 of the ALCS. He blew the game, but it was not because he had bad stuff, he got unlucky.Rivera walked the leadoff batter on four pitches.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 10:15 PM
Actually, I think it was a bad pitch, b/c he missed over the plate when his target was outside. That in and of itself may not ahve been a problem, but I think Huff was looking to get a pitch he could drive b/c Schilling had left the pitch immediately prior right over the plate, too, but Huff watched that one.

(And is Foulke really expected back mid-Aug? Has he started rehab yet?)

I didn't think he was that far off on location, I thought Huff took a great cut.

As far as Foulke goes, the time period on something like that is 4-6 weeks, and the surgery was July 6th. That comes out to around mid-August. His last update, via Rotoworld:

7/18
Keith Foulke (knee) is expected to have the stitches from his incision removed today.
Foulke underwent knee surgery July 6 and is expected to be out 4-6 weeks. He has been rehabbing at the Athletes Performance Institute in Arizona.



He has had the stitches out for a week now and has been rehabbing the injury for a while. Not sure when he will start a rehab stint in the minors though.

BoSox37
07-25-05, 10:17 PM
Rivera walked the leadoff batter on four pitches.

Right, but he got unlucky on the SB and a seeing eye single by Mueller that was not hit all that hard. With a little luck, he gets out of that unscathed. Simliar game on a much smaller stage for the Sox tonight. Schilling was unlucky.

MassNYYfan
07-25-05, 10:22 PM
Schilling wasn't looking very hittable up until the Huff AB.

TB is definitely lucky to have won the game, but that's as sympathetic as I'm going to get. ;)

NYYFAN
07-25-05, 10:22 PM
I hear Curt wants to start ASAP...

Murphy
07-25-05, 10:23 PM
man we ahve the stupidest team everrrr. cant run the bases cant field. trot nixon is the worst baserunner i have ever seen and i dont know what he was thinkin in the field. and why dosnt tito realize that timlin cant come into a game with runners onn base? what doesh e have against chad bradford? and wher was olerud late in the game? ah this game sucks.

JDPNYY
07-25-05, 11:13 PM
Listen... The Red Sox did nearly everything right. The loss was not their fault.

cubswin
07-25-05, 11:16 PM
Listen... The Red Sox did nearly everything right. The loss was not their fault.

upset about a Yankees fan starting yet another thread about the Sox?

JDPNYY
07-25-05, 11:17 PM
upset about a Yankees fan starting yet another thread about the Sox?

I'm not upset at all. You wouldn't be baiting me, would you?

cubswin
07-25-05, 11:23 PM
I'm not upset at all. You wouldn't be baiting me, would you?

How would that be baiting? especially given your first post in the thread.

JDPNYY
07-25-05, 11:24 PM
How would that be baiting? especially given your first post in the thread.

I was just asking. You're a hard person to figure out.

cubswin
07-25-05, 11:27 PM
I was just asking. You're a hard person to figure out.

That's because I drink a lot.

yanksrule69
07-25-05, 11:31 PM
That's because I drink a lot.

Wine cooolers don't count.

STNYY
07-25-05, 11:34 PM
Schilling was unlucky.

I'll bet you my life that the screaming throngs on the banks of that dirty river last year were not thinking "Rivera was unlucky". And luck wasn't mentioned in April, when the Sox beat Mariano on 2 'bad pitches'. They crowed about how they beat Mariano the Great, and who can blame 'em?

You guys are judging Curt like a starter, but he's in the closer role now. He didn't nail the game down and the team lost. Period, end of story. That shot into the RF corner was hit a hell of lot harder than the bloop against Mariano that cost the Yanks the WS in 2001. A loss is a loss, seems like a damn waste of time assigning appropriate 'blame' or spinning it to let your hero off the hook. (I hate the blame threads that pop up on this site with each Yankee loss and never participate.)

As I posted in the other Schilling thread, to expect Yankee fans to not take pleasure in this is just beyond friggin' ridiculous.

cubswin
07-26-05, 12:05 AM
Wine cooolers don't count.

:lol: Bartles & James... nothing but the best!

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:14 AM
He still has an ERA over 6, which is higher than most of our pitching staff.



Schilling's ERA is 6.84 to be exact.

Euclis
07-26-05, 12:15 AM
Trot Nixon: Apparently, he really is all heart. Leaves no room for instinct. I don't think he froze on the groundball, I think he was trying to be cute, and block the SS's view of the ball, and he just got hit. I've never seen a runner on 2B get hit before, wow.

The ironic part is just before the last play of the game, Remy was talking about how the sox were playing deep to keep any deep balls in front of them, to prevent the extra base hit. The day Trot stops hitting is his last day in baseball, because he has slowed down, his arm has lost some power, and he has no instincts whatsoever.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:17 AM
Schilling's ERA is 6.84 to be exact.


And he's the closer........................

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:19 AM
And he's the closer........................

So they say.

WHIP
07-26-05, 12:21 AM
Trot Nixon: Apparently, he really is all heart. Leaves no room for instinct. I don't think he froze on the groundball, I think he was trying to be cute, and block the SS's view of the ball, and he just got hit. I've never seen a runner on 2B get hit before, wow.

The ironic part is just before the last play of the game, Remy was talking about how the sox were playing deep to keep any deep balls in front of them, to prevent the extra base hit. The day Trot stops hitting is his last day in baseball, because he has slowed down, his arm has lost some power, and he has no instincts whatsoever.

Nixon seems to be involved in more baserunning blunders than the normal man. Recently I can think of the bases loaded pickoff against Baltimore and the groundout on which he was thrown out at home against the W-Sox.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:21 AM
So they say.


Can you imagine our closer with a 6..............

Oh wait........we have Mo.


Nevermind.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:27 AM
Is it a testimonial to the Yanks and Sox that the Yanks have had 3/5 of their starting pitchers out most of the season, have a lousy pen while the Sox played most of the year without Curt, their closer has been out of action and their pen is equally as bad, yet both teams are atop the division? Or, does it tell us that the league is watered down and basically sucks?

Probably a combination of both, with more weight given the latter.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:28 AM
Can you imagine our closer with a 6..............

Oh wait........we have Mo.


Nevermind.
In Mo we trust, take away a playoff and WS game or two. ;)

WHIP
07-26-05, 12:30 AM
Is it a testimonial to the Yanks and Sox that the Yanks had 3/5 of their starting pitchers out most of the season, have lousy pen and the Sox played most of the year without Curt, their closer has been out of action and their pen is equally as bad, yet both teams are atop the division? Or, does it tell us that the league is watered down and basically sucks?

Probably a combination of both, with more weight given the latter.

Goes to show you, IMO, that offense is very underrated.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:31 AM
In Mo we trust, take away a playoff and WS game or two. ;)


I don't care about the blown saves he's had in the past...........Game 7, bottom of the 9th............that's who I want on the mound. There's no one better or more equipped in the game.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:35 AM
Goes to show you, IMO, that offense is very underrated.

I hear you. On the flip side, it can be said that if either team acquires a starting or relief pitcher who comes in and dominates the rest of the year, their chances of winning it all would increase dramatically.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:36 AM
I don't care about the blown saves he's had in the past...........Game 7, bottom of the 9th............that's who I want on the mound. There's no one better or more equipped in the game.

He's the best ever. I was being somewhat facetious, because I also realize he's not a robot.

Euclis
07-26-05, 12:36 AM
Goes to show you, IMO, that offense is very underrated.

And payroll.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:38 AM
And payroll.
....said the remaining 28 teams. ;)

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:39 AM
He's the best ever. I was being somewhat facetious, because I also realize he's not a robot.


I know. He's going to make mistakes, and sometimes (Damn you, Luis Gonzalez) when you don't want them, but all the good he's done for this team far outweighs those mistakes.

I still say when he retires, they should dip him in bronze and stick him by the bullpen. That way, all the pitchers that sit there can look at him and go, "Greatness sat here".

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:45 AM
I know. He's going to make mistakes, and sometimes (Damn you, Luis Gonzalez) when you don't want them, but all the good he's done for this team far outweighs those mistakes.

I still say when he retires, they should dip him in bronze and stick him by the bullpen. That way, all the pitchers that sit there can look at him and go, "Greatness sat here".

When he retires it will be a big blow for Yankees fans and baseball in general. I think he'll be even more appreciated for his greatness throughout the baseball world when he's no longer on the mound. Of all the great relief pitchers in the history of the game no one is or ever was his equal.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:47 AM
When he retires it will be a big blow for Yankees fans and baseball in general. I think he'll be even more appreciated for his greatness throughout the baseball world when he's no longer on the mound. Of all the great relief pitchers in the history of the game no one is his equal.


It'll be weird that first game after he retires........and it's the top of the 9th.........and there's nothing. Just some random dude trotting to the mound.

No slow walk. No "Enter Sandman". No knowing the game is over so you might as well start packing up your crap.

Just some random dude trotting to the mound.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:53 AM
It'll be weird that first game after he retires........and it's the top of the 9th.........and there's nothing. Just some random dude trotting to the mound.

No slow walk. No "Enter Sandman". No knowing the game is over so you might as well start packing up your crap.

Just some random dude trotting to the mound.

It's going to hit you, me and millions of Yankees fans real hard.

BTW, nothing wrong with going off topic, because the topic of this thread has no lasting power. Just saying, in case people are thinking, "wtf."

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 12:56 AM
It's going to hit you, me and millions of Yankees fans real hard.


I think I might actually cry.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 12:57 AM
I think I might actually cry.
Grown men will, I know you will.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 01:02 AM
Grown men will, I know you will.


That should be a game sponsored by the good people at Kleenex.

MiamiKat
07-26-05, 01:19 AM
It's going to hit you, me and millions of Yankees fans real hard. Mo's sendoff by the fans during his last game at Yankee Stadium is going to make Paul O'Neill's seem like it was one guy in the corner whispering goodbye.

No insult intended to O'Neill -- I and countless other Yankee fans love the guy -- but Mo's farewell from the fans is going to be something to witness.

And hopefully we won't have to witness it for quite a while.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 01:25 AM
Mo's sendoff by the fans during his last game at Yankee Stadium is going to make Paul O'Neill's seem like it was one guy in the corner whispering goodbye.

No insult intended to O'Neill -- I and countless other Yankee fans love the guy -- but Mo's farewell from the fans is going to be something to witness.

And hopefully we won't have to witness it for quite a while.

It will be one of the most emotional events we will ever witness. There is no doubt that Mo will be crying along with our cheers and tears. I'm feeling strange even thinking about that day.

NYYBombshell
07-26-05, 01:47 AM
It will be one of the most emotional events we will ever witness. There is no doubt that Mo will be crying along with our cheers and tears. I'm feeling strange even thinking about that day.


That game better be nationally televised. I don't want to have to miss it because I don't have YES.

just-blaze
07-26-05, 01:56 AM
When he retires it will be a big blow for Yankees fans and baseball in general. I think he'll be even more appreciated for his greatness throughout the baseball world when he's no longer on the mound. Of all the great relief pitchers in the history of the game no one is or ever was his equal.

I know what Im watching... the most dominant classy closer in the history of baseball.

I thank God for giving me the Yankees and the Legend.

IncredibleByNature
07-26-05, 03:15 AM
It's going to hit you, me and millions of Yankees fans real hard.


I don't even like thinking about it. :( The fans are going to give him an incredible sendoff.

yankeebot
07-26-05, 04:58 AM
I think I might actually cry.
I am getting teary here just reading this thread. I hope we are ready when this finally happens and have some young stud to move into his place. (J Brent Cox?). No one will ever replace Mo but I would love to bring someone up through the system to continue on.

-tz
07-26-05, 05:47 AM
Sorry, but an "ERA of just over 4" ... as a closer ... is not "Not good by closer's standards, but not terrible."

It's terrible.

sharoncass
07-26-05, 08:35 AM
I know. He's going to make mistakes, and sometimes (Damn you, Luis Gonzalez) when you don't want them, but all the good he's done for this team far outweighs those mistakes.

I still say when he retires, they should dip him in bronze and stick him by the bullpen. That way, all the pitchers that sit there can look at him and go, "Greatness sat here".

What Mo has done and for the length of time he has done it, is nothing short of amazing. He is the greatest.

JDPNYY
07-26-05, 08:38 AM
BTW, nothing wrong with going off topic, because the topic of this thread has no lasting power. Just saying, in case people are thinking, "wtf."

Off topic?

More like a derailment down into a deep ravine.

Grape Ape
07-26-05, 09:15 AM
Saw the last inning. Sox were playing deep, but Huff's ball was a high line drive that got out there in a hurry. Those balls are tough to catch, no matter how deep you play. Trot made a bad decision. When platoon players play every day, they're bound to make mistakes.

Schmoop looked good on the first two batters of the eighth, but those guys also play on one of my softball teams (Laforest??). He threw a split on the second pitch to Huff, and Huff put a nice swing on it.

His ERA would be even higher if they umps didn't reverse the correct decision the other night.

I think if he converts to a starter, he'll go maybe five max for a few starts until he gets his wind. We won't be able to make a fair assessment of him until after that. He's not going to be the closer so I'm not going to speculate his future in the role. I just hope he continues to perform like he has been.

CoyoteYankee
07-26-05, 09:33 AM
Mo's sendoff by the fans during his last game at Yankee Stadium is going to make Paul O'Neill's seem like it was one guy in the corner whispering goodbye.

No insult intended to O'Neill -- I and countless other Yankee fans love the guy -- but Mo's farewell from the fans is going to be something to witness.

And hopefully we won't have to witness it for quite a while.

Paulie's send off still makes me cry. I can't imagine how Mo's will be. I just can't imagine. I don't even want to think about it right now.

S2
07-26-05, 09:39 AM
Is it a testimonial to the Yanks and Sox that the Yanks have had 3/5 of their starting pitchers out most of the season, have a lousy pen while the Sox played most of the year without Curt, their closer has been out of action and their pen is equally as bad, yet both teams are atop the division? Or, does it tell us that the league is watered down and basically sucks?

Probably a combination of both, with more weight given the latter.
My pen is worse than your pen. (Mantei, Embree, Halama, Foulke ring a bell?);)

But the Sox and Yanks would be in real trouble if Halladay was still pitching. That's a guaranteed win every time he pitches.

There's a little over two months left. Whichever team finds a groove first will win the division. You can basically throw out all the junk from the first four months (the Yankees rotation injuries, the losing streaks, the winning streaks ... the Red Sox losing Schilling, then Wells, the bullpen being utterly repulsive, the 7-game winning streak and their lead at the end of June/early July) and play a two-month season.

And I don't think the Wild Card is automatically coming from the West or Central. There a bunch of teams in the hunt, but no team that I would say is ready to run away with it. No way Oakland keeps playing .900 ball and Minnesota doesn't look as strong as in past years, even Santana isn't pitching like last year. There's a lot of season left and the East and Wild Card are up for grabs.

Dooley Womack
07-26-05, 09:41 AM
Off topic?

More like a derailment down into a deep ravine. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I missed you, brother.

pjfan
07-26-05, 09:47 AM
And I don't think the Wild Card is automatically coming from the West or Central. There a bunch of teams in the hunt, but no team that I would say is ready to run away with it. No way Oakland keeps playing .900 ball and Minnesota doesn't look as strong as in past years, even Santana isn't pitching like last year. There's a lot of season left and the East and Wild Card are up for grabs.

absolutely agree........I think the Sox and Yanks can keep battling, with one getting the division, and the other getting the WC. All these "experts" saying that only one team from the East is going to the post season will end up eating a bunch of crow

cubswin
07-26-05, 09:57 AM
Can you imagine our closer with a 6..............

Oh wait........we have Mo.

Nevermind.

It's not something that needs to be imagined -- just go to the start of the year (which this basically is for Schilling).

cubswin
07-26-05, 10:03 AM
...Trot made a bad decision. ...

Trot's overly aggressive in the field. Always has been, I assume he always will be. Occasionally it enables him to make a great play. Equally often, it gets him into trouble. I guess you take the bad with the good. At least he's going all out, which you can't fault a guy for.

Mystic Merlyn
07-26-05, 10:54 AM
Saw the last inning. Sox were playing deep, but Huff's ball was a high line drive that got out there in a hurry. Those balls are tough to catch, no matter how deep you play. Trot made a bad decision. When platoon players play every day, they're bound to make mistakes.

Schmoop looked good on the first two batters of the eighth, but those guys also play on one of my softball teams (Laforest??). He threw a split on the second pitch to Huff, and Huff put a nice swing on it.

His ERA would be even higher if they umps didn't reverse the correct decision the other night.

I think if he converts to a starter, he'll go maybe five max for a few starts until he gets his wind. We won't be able to make a fair assessment of him until after that. He's not going to be the closer so I'm not going to speculate his future in the role. I just hope he continues to perform like he has been.

Trot a platoon player? Yeah, he does sit occassionally against LHP, but he does play more against them than in recent years. I think Trot is too good of an offensive player to relegate him to "platoon" status.

As far as today's game goes, if the Sox had been able to score on their many chances late in the game, we wouldn't be hearing about how Schilling was horrible. In the 9th he got 2 K's and a weak pop out, and he was screwed over by a slow roller to third by Cantu and a horrible play by Nixon in RF. Sure, he deserves the blame for losing the game (although he did throw a good splitter to Huff), but to act like he was getting hammered is a joke. I understand that as a closer you have to work harder to prevent these things because unlike a starter you don't have 6 or 7 innings to work in. All you can do is tip your cap to Huff, and blame the rest of the team for not doing their part.

Mystic Merlyn
07-26-05, 10:57 AM
Trot's overly aggressive in the field. Always has been, I assume he always will be. Occasionally it enables him to make a great play. Equally often, it gets him into trouble. I guess you take the bad with the good. At least he's going all out, which you can't fault a guy for.

You know, this is what really irks me about Sox fans sometimes (not singling you out). Trot has made some HORRIBLE decisions and plays in RF for the past few years, especially this year, but he always gets a pass. People say "well he was going all out, and he's a dirt dog so it's OK". However, when Manny makes a mistake it is "Manny being Manny". People seem to ignore the fact that Manny is a smarter defensive player than Trot and is better overalll; they see the 3 or 4 stupid plays Manny makes a year and ignore the 9 or 10 Trot makes a year. Just my .02

cubswin
07-26-05, 11:04 AM
You know, this is what really irks me about Sox fans sometimes (not singling you out). Trot has made some HORRIBLE decisions and plays in RF for the past few years, especially this year, but he always gets a pass. People say "well he was going all out, and he's a dirt dog so it's OK". However, when Manny makes a mistake it is "Manny being Manny". People seem to ignore the fact that Manny is a smarter defensive player than Trot and is better overalll; they see the 3 or 4 stupid plays Manny makes a year and ignore the 9 or 10 Trot makes a year. Just my .02

Thanks for the parenthetical re. not singling me out, but if you think I was giving him a pass, then you misread what I was saying. I was saying you can't fault the hustle, not that the hustle excuses the mistakes.

Mystic Merlyn
07-26-05, 11:06 AM
Thanks for the parenthetical re. not singling me out, but if you think I was giving him a pass, then you misread what I was saying. I was saying you can't fault the hustle, not that the hustle excuses the mistakes.

I understood your post. The reason I said "not singling you out" was I didn't think you were giving him a pass. I saw what you had posted and it brought to mind that many people DO give him a pass. No harm intended. :)

cubswin
07-26-05, 11:09 AM
I understood your post. The reason I said "not singling you out" was I didn't think you were giving him a pass. I saw what you had posted and it brought to mind that many people DO give him a pass. No harm intended. :)

none taken - just wasn't sure -- sounded like you might be grouping me with them (and therefore not singling me out)

I agree with you, with a bit of a different slant on Manny's mistakes, just b/c many of them do come under the category of "Manny being Manny." However, I think that's becoming a bit of a mantra for some. manny loses a ball in bright sun, and it's "Manny being Manny" -- what does that mean? He lost it in the sun, he didn't flake out.

mbn007
07-26-05, 12:13 PM
Someone brought up the issue of Mo retiring. We all know that will happen someday. It will be sad.

When Cox, or Henn, or Martinez, or Pope, or whomever is in the minors now, or someone on another team comes in for the save, it will seem so strange to know we do not have Mr. Automatic coming in.

That is really the weird part.

justinvarnes
07-26-05, 12:29 PM
He gets the loss and you guys gain a half game in the standings. I understand that, I am not an idiot.

The difference is, this loss was not Schill's fault. He had good stuff, especially compared to the last time he pitched (even though he got the win then). Despite picking up an L, Curt had very good stuff tonight. That is all I am saying. Based on the replies in this thread, you wouls think Curt got shelled. I know you guys are Yankees fans, and you are happy about the D-Rays win. That's fine, you should be. All I am trying to say is that as a Sox fan, I am encouraged by Curt's stuff tonight, regardless of the outcome of the game.


I didn't read anything saying he got "shelled". I only read that yankee fans were rejoicing in the fact that Schilling helped their team out by being ineffective.

Welcome to the "closer", Curt. It aint as easy as Mo makes it look....

Don Mack
07-26-05, 10:04 PM
Off topic?

More like a derailment down into a deep ravine.
----------------------------------------------
:lol: :lol: :lol: Right on! What happened in Tampa tonight, Tuesday, is that Danica Baez blew a big save and the game. Tampa Bay leading 8-6 in the 9th when Baez came on. Game tied at 8-8 after the top of the 9th. Baez then gave up a homer to Damon in the 10th and I turned it off. I don't know why there is any interest in this chump as a closer, but he stunk the place out. A win by Tampa Bay would have given us a tie or the lead in the AL east.

Michaels07
07-26-05, 10:32 PM
----------------------------------------------
:lol: :lol: :lol: Right on! What happened in Tampa tonight, Tuesday, is that Danica Baez blew a big save and the game. Tampa Bay leading 8-6 in the 9th when Baez came on. Game tied at 8-8 after the top of the 9th. Baez then gave up a homer to Damon in the 10th and I turned it off. I don't know why there is any interest in this chump as a closer, but he stunk the place out. A win by Tampa Bay would have given us a tie or the lead in the AL east.

He got wind that he would be traded to the Bosox :P