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View Full Version : El Duque: Respect from the 'rookie'?



Gringaloca
02-25-05, 09:19 PM
WOW! I don't ever remember 'Duque throwing an intentional brush-back.. ;)

Guess the 'kid' really p*ssed him off... :D

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20050225&content_id=950608&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp


A White Sox source said Friday's incident actually took root two days ago, when Rogowski hit a line drive back up the middle with Hernandez on the mound. Although Hernandez had a screen in front of him during the session, he didn't appreciate the comebacker when hitters are signaled as to what pitch is coming, nor what he perceived as the ensuing reaction.

Although the problem seemed to be settled at the time, Hernandez decided that some sort of message was still there to be sent. Manager Ozzie Guillen liked Hernandez's attitude, but would have preferred the target to be part of another franchise.

"That shows me what kind of person we have on the mound," Guillen said of El Duque. "I respect that. I wasn't too happy about it, but he's got his own reasons, and I can live with that. He came to me and said why and what happened and stuff. I just turned the page and moved on.

"He's competitive," Guillen added of El Duque. "I like that, when a guy doesn't like to be embarrassed by anybody. A lot of guys should learn from that when we face another team."

BobbyMurcerFan
02-25-05, 09:38 PM
I miss him and Jon Lieber already. :(

Rich
02-25-05, 09:41 PM
He never took sh*t from anyone.

ring403
02-25-05, 10:15 PM
There was never any question about El Duque's competitive nature or guts, only his ability to stay healthy.

GimeMoMuny
02-25-05, 10:39 PM
El Duque epitomizes a pitcher.

YankeeFan1
02-25-05, 10:43 PM
Good for Duque. No one shows up the Duke.

bleachersown
02-25-05, 10:59 PM
Down goes Duque!!!!

NDBoston
02-26-05, 02:19 AM
According to Bruce Levine of ESPN1000:

El Duque was pissed off because the rookie was laughing after the hit and was talking it up with other players later.

The rookie was so shaken up after the was brushback that one of the coaches had to talk with him. I'm guessing he learned a valuable lesson, courtesy of El Duque.

Brent
02-26-05, 02:27 AM
We should have started el duque in game 7, 40 mile an hour eephus pitches and 70 mph fastballs would have been better than KB and JV at that point.

JJazz
02-26-05, 10:35 AM
I wish we could have found a place in the pen for El Duque. There's nobody I'd rather hand the ball in the 7th inning with no outs and the bases loaded. He has the composure not to get rattled by pressure, and the craftiness to pitch his way out of anything. And he'd be less of a dead arm risk out of the pen too.

Good luck to El Duque.

Serge
02-26-05, 10:37 AM
I'm sure going to miss El Duque. Few have more fun and are more exciting than he is.

Casey37
02-26-05, 10:40 AM
Rogowski was very lucky Roger Clemens was not on the mound instead.

SubwayFanatic
02-26-05, 11:02 AM
We should have started el duque in game 7, 40 mile an hour eephus pitches and 70 mph fastballs would have been better than KB and JV at that point.


Ain't that the truth. :mad:

TripleG23
02-26-05, 11:54 AM
Rogowski was very lucky Roger Clemens was not on the mound instead.

Duque can get his fastball to go about 90-91, still would hurt like heck.

Players on the Whitesox should have some respect for El Duque. They could learn a thing or two about winning from him. See 1998, 1999, 2000 . . Not a bad influence on any team trying to win.

-Triple G

sorigirl
02-26-05, 12:23 PM
I miss Duque...the White Sox are lucky to have him. :(

BobbyMurcerFan
02-26-05, 01:46 PM
There was never any question about El Duque's competitive nature or guts, only his ability to stay healthy.Sounds like 3/5ths of our current rotation.

PlsDontTearDownY.S.
02-26-05, 02:38 PM
We should have started el duque in game 7, 40 mile an hour eephus pitches and 70 mph fastballs would have been better than KB and JV at that point.


I have been saying that since the moment I found out that Kevin Brown was given the start. :mad: :mad: It still burns me. That qualified as one of Joe's dumbest decisions ever, at least with the Yankees. And, does anyone think that El would have given up a grand slam on the first pitch if he had been brought in instead of Javy?

El Duque should still be here, it was a bad job by the Yanks' decision makers to let him walk. I WILL be in the house if he gets a start when the Chisox come to town.

silverdsl
02-26-05, 05:15 PM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah

MisterNovember
02-26-05, 05:22 PM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah

I'm with ya on that one Deborah. I have a feeling that if Curt Schilling did the same thing to one of the Red Sox rookies, members of this board would not be applauding him for being a "warrior". There are definitely better ways to teach a rookie "respect" than brushing the guy back. Kind of a jerk move on Duque's part, IMHO.

NDBoston
02-26-05, 05:38 PM
I'm with ya on that one Deborah. I have a feeling that if Curt Schilling did the same thing to one of the Red Sox rookies, members of this board would not be applauding him for being a "warrior". There are definitely better ways to teach a rookie "respect" than brushing the guy back. Kind of a jerk move on Duque's part, IMHO.

Schilling did do the same thing to Kevin Millar last year. Millar was bragging about his lifetime numbers against Schilling and the next day Millar hit the dirt on a Schilling pitch.

LaLightning78
02-26-05, 06:42 PM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah

Why waste the words on a conversation about respect. He made his point, nobody got hurt, and the rookie learned a valuable lesson all in less time than it took me to write this.

Duque has an old school mentality like few current players and I happen to believe that it makes him one of the more fun players to watch. I'll take the game twenty years ago over today's any day of the week.

He certainly isn't an irrational headhunter, but the kid was asking for it.

sorigirl
02-26-05, 06:54 PM
I like the fact that he went to Guillen and explained himself on his own.

Cuban Connection
02-26-05, 07:38 PM
There was never any question about El Duque's competitive nature or guts, only his ability to stay healthy.
The White Sox seem to very impressed with his condition so far.

"If I had to pick two guys in better shape than anyone, it's El Duque and (Jose) Contreras. (Hernandez) is the last guy on the staff I have to worry about." Ozzie

"We've got 60 players in camp. Half are right around 25. This guy is 35, and he comes into camp as the best physical specimen we have. The doctors keep raving about the what kind of shape he's in." KW

ring403
02-26-05, 08:10 PM
The White Sox seem to very impressed with his condition so far.

"If I had to pick two guys in better shape than anyone, it's El Duque and (Jose) Contreras. (Hernandez) is the last guy on the staff I have to worry about." Ozzie

"We've got 60 players in camp. Half are right around 25. This guy is 35, and he comes into camp as the best physical specimen we have. The doctors keep raving about the what kind of shape he's in." KW

El Duque is a tremendous athlete. He has always been one of the best fielding pitchers in the game, because of his agility and quickness.
The only knock on him is that at this point in his career, his arm has trouble withstanding the grind of pitching every fifth day.
The Yankees have always liked him and wanted him back, but were unwilling to match Chicago's offer, or guarantee him a spot in the rotation. I personally hope he does very well with the White Sox, except, of course, when he faces the Yankees.

JeffWeaverFan
02-26-05, 08:18 PM
I'm going to really miss El Duque next year. He was the most entertaining pitcher to watch.

Cuban Connection
02-26-05, 08:45 PM
Here's an update (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20050226&content_id=951333&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp) on the situation.


No hard feelings: There was a brief meeting between Hernandez and Rogowski in Guillen's office Saturday, settling any residual hard feelings stemming from Friday's brushback incident. During live batting practice, Hernandez threw a pitch high-and-tight to Rogowski, after a ground ball hit back up the middle from Rogowski two days earlier upset El Duque.

Guillen was satisfied with Saturday's resolution.

"They shook hands and moved on," Guillen said. "They regret what they did, but that's part of the game and it won't happen again.

"El Duque was a real class act about coming to the kid and they apologized on both sides. I don't want any trouble with the team. Both sides were mistaken and there was a misunderstanding."

Evil Empire
02-26-05, 09:15 PM
Is Wright better than Duque?

Archer1979
02-26-05, 09:57 PM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah

I don't know. Sometimes that message has to be sent. He didn't hit him, but if that rookie pulled something like that against another team (for some reason, I'm thinking like Pedro in his prime), he probably would have been hit and hard. Which would you prefer, one under the chin or one in the ear. One's an acceptable part of the game, the other isn't.

PlsDontTearDownY.S.
02-27-05, 11:08 AM
Is Wright better than Duque?


El Duque > Wright

MisterNovember
02-27-05, 11:14 AM
El Duque > Wright

I'm not so sure about that. Both Wright and Duque are pretty good pitchers, but both have pretty significant injury concerns. The advantage to wright is that he's much younger.

PlsDontTearDownY.S.
02-27-05, 11:22 AM
For this season, I would take El Duque. Down the road, who knows, but for this year I would prefer El Duque.

Grape Ape
02-27-05, 11:29 AM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah

Duque solved the problem in a split second, in a language that everyone on the field understands - baseball. It ended right there and won't happen again.

A clubhouse confrontation could just lead to an unecessary escalation. Duque did the right thing. The PC way of handling things doesn't always translate effectively to team sports.

spawn04
03-02-05, 08:58 AM
Hi all. White Sox fan and first time poster. I was told this was a good site with knowledgeable baseball fans. After doing some lurking, it seems I was told the truth. I just ask for you guys to be gentle! I will be honest: I was hoping the Red Sox would win the WS last year, so they couldn't continue to blame a curse for their WS futility. But the way they've acted after the win, I now wish the Yanks would've swept them in the ALCS. At least while you guys were winning Series titles, your team was extremely classy about about. So please don't hold my rooting interests from last year against me. I now know better! Anyway, I just wanted to get an honest opinion from knowledgeable fans outside of the AL Central. What do you guys think of the change in our lineup? Also, Contreras and El Duque: Good moves or not? I like our rotation with El Duque, but others seem to think that it wasn't such a good move.

My opinion of the Yankees is this: Wow. it seems Steinbrenner has definitely addressed the problems you guys had last year (pitching). I see you guys getting back to the Series, especially with the losses for the Red Sox this offseason.

Anyway, this is a nice very nice site you have here, one of the best I've come across!

Spaceboy88
03-02-05, 09:01 AM
I'm really going to miss his Ephus pitch. *sigh*

RhodyYanksFan
03-02-05, 09:01 AM
Schilling did do the same thing to Kevin Millar last year. Millar was bragging about his lifetime numbers against Schilling and the next day Millar hit the dirt on a Schilling pitch.

In all reality, who wouldn't want to throw at Millar?

Casey37
03-02-05, 09:19 AM
Hi all. White Sox fan and first time poster. I was told this was a good site with knowledgeable baseball fans. After doing some lurking, it seems I was told the truth. I just ask for you guys to be gentle! I will be honest: I was hoping the Red Sox would win the WS last year, so they couldn't continue to blame a curse for their WS futility. But the way they've acted after the win, I now wish the Yanks would've swept them in the ALCS. At least while you guys were winning Series titles, your team was extremely classy about about. So please don't hold my rooting interests from last year against me. I now know better! Anyway, I just wanted to get an honest opinion from knowledgeable fans outside of the AL Central. What do you guys think of the change in our lineup? Also, Contreras and El Duque: Good moves or not? I like our rotation with El Duque, but others seem to think that it wasn't such a good move.

My opinion of the Yankees is this: Wow. it seems Steinbrenner has definitely addressed the problems you guys had last year (pitching). I see you guys getting back to the Series, especially with the losses for the Red Sox this offseason.

Anyway, this is a nice very nice site you have here, one of the best I've come across!

Welcome. You should however go here & introduce yourself.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

YankeeFan1
03-02-05, 09:23 AM
Hi all. White Sox fan and first time poster. I was told this was a good site with knowledgeable baseball fans. After doing some lurking, it seems I was told the truth. I just ask for you guys to be gentle! I will be honest: I was hoping the Red Sox would win the WS last year, so they couldn't continue to blame a curse for their WS futility. But the way they've acted after the win, I now wish the Yanks would've swept them in the ALCS. At least while you guys were winning Series titles, your team was extremely classy about about. So please don't hold my rooting interests from last year against me. I now know better! Anyway, I just wanted to get an honest opinion from knowledgeable fans outside of the AL Central. What do you guys think of the change in our lineup? Also, Contreras and El Duque: Good moves or not? I like our rotation with El Duque, but others seem to think that it wasn't such a good move.Welcome. I think that signing El Duque was a great move for the White Sox. While he may have a stint on the DL and/or get tired arm, Duque will definitely shore up your pitching and give them some guaranteed wins, especially important with Contreras' wild inconsistency. The White Sox have a nice rotation, but they have lost quite a bit on offense. However, they should be more competitive with the Twins this season.

BTW, now that you've come to your senses, you are forgiven for rooting against the Yankees. :)

spawn04
03-02-05, 09:47 AM
Welcome. You should however go here & introduce yourself.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33
I guess I should've done that first! Thanks!

SoCal Pinstriper
03-02-05, 01:55 PM
El Duque > WrightIf both are in equally perfect health, I agree. I think that the question is open as to a comparison over the course of this season.

El Duque was number one on my list of pitchers to watch from the standpoint of entertainment value. Being able to watch him pitch for the Chisox this year enhances the value of my MLB Extra Innings package. I wish him the best.

And OBTW, it sounds to me as though he was totally justified in dusting the rook. :badass:

DontHateOnNumber2
03-02-05, 02:05 PM
Damned shame...we allowed Duque, a pitcher who actually performed well for us, to go to a team with a pitcher we had that couldn't. The age and durability thing still rings in my ears, but so did his 7-0 start from last season.

ojo
03-02-05, 02:07 PM
I guess I'm going to be one of the few who thinks that's not a particularly admirable thing that El Duque did. I understand that he wants to send a message about respect to a rookie but there are ways to handle that IMO inside the clubhouse without brushing back one of your own teammates. If a pitcher absolutely must retalitate and throw at a hitter I just don't think it should be directed towards a teammate.

-Deborah


i'm not sure you can teach that lesson adequately enough without actually hitting the batter. the rookie showed up a veteran pitcher. if he did that stuff in a big league game he could expect the same thing coming from the other team. now he knows better.

seems like something his legion coach should have imparted to him to be honest.

parkerstrong
03-02-05, 10:15 PM
I would rather have El Duque than Wright. I was (and still am) disappointed how little the Yankees thought of El Duque. He carried us late last year and always found ways to get guys out. I miss him already.

Bernie51A-Rod13
03-03-05, 02:21 AM
We should of signed El Duque instead of Wright. Would of saved a bunch of money, and he's a more effective pitcher.

Grape Ape
03-03-05, 10:21 AM
We could have easily had both of them.

Irabu's Son
03-04-05, 06:00 PM
We should of signed El Duque instead of Wright. Would of saved a bunch of money, and he's a more effective pitcher.

Duque could have been re-signed to be the swing man instead of Sturtze.

A quick story: in Duque's MLB debut, I think he allowed 1 run over 8 innings. I called my friends and said Duque was the greatest pitcher in Yankees history. While that's a stretch, I think if he came here from Cuba when he was 25 instead of 55, he would be a 250-game winner.

He's still my favorite pitcher on the Yanks, even if he doesn't play for the Yanks.

Albanyfan
03-06-05, 04:51 AM
I'm in the minority. I believe El D was wrong. The kid was taking batting practice and was not prepared for that type of brushback meaning there was a much higher risk of being seriously hurt. El D. had a screen, and batted balls are less predictable, so in a sense he should be more prepared.