Paul Hamm to voluntarily give up Gold Medal?

[Jersey Yankee]

I heard something about this just now on WCBS-880AM. True or not?

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

He should, just for himself. I know I couldnt go around telling people I won the gold medal knowing that I got it because of a scoring mistake.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Well, the USOC received the letter by the Internation Gymnastics Federation, but didn't give the letter to ask Paul Hamm to give up gold medal. Here are a lot of articles about the subject.

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpY29qbG50BF9TAzk2NjcyOTgwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-ioc-rogge&prov=ap&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpY29qbG50BF9TAzk2NjcyOTgwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-taintedgold&prov=ap&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpdTdxc2YxBF9TAzk2NjczMDIxBHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=ap-taintedgold&prov=ap&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpdTdxc2YxBF9TAzk2NjczMDIxBHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=reu-gymnasticsusadc&prov=reuters&type=lgns/

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpdTdxc2YxBF9TAzk2NjczMDIxBHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=usatoday-usoclettertofig&prov=usatoday_wire&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=usatoday-internationalgymnastics&prov=usatoday_wire&type=lgns

I even saw the interview between Bob Costas and International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge on the Paul Hamm issue. Rogge said the IOC will not give duplicate gold medals, and the results will stand as it is, but Rogge also says that the judges make honest mistakes and this incident is not like the Salt Lake City pairs figure skating judge scandal. It is even worse than the 1972 Munich Olympic Men's Basketball final when the U.S. lost to the Soviets in a timekeeper dispute and refused the silver medals. The judging contraversy happens in the Olympics. It's nothing new.

I know that if Hamm gives up the gold medal, it will be displayed as the ultimate sportmanship act in sport, but Paul Hamm earned it fair and square, no disrespect to Yang Tae-young as that gymnast also did a good job, the judges should be the ones who should be disclipined by FIG, because they screwed the whole thing up.

Fair and income, the judges should be the blame, not the athletes.

[Jim F.]

The Korean guy also didn't get marked down for a mistake that HE made. If scoring had been correct all the way around, Hamm would have won anyway.

-jim

[penfold]

IMHO, an athlete should not be punished by a technicality -- especially when that technicality is the fault of the judges in charge of his/her event. The USOC should simply issue another gold to the Korean guy and let Hamm keep his medal. This is not without precedence: they did that in the ice dance controversy a couple years ago. The administrators should suck it up and take the blame. Give both athletes recognition for their accomplishemnts.

[Jersey Yankee]

I'm hearing on the radio that the USA Olympic team's heads (or whoever spoke) said that the gold shouldn't be returned, and that it wasn't their fault that he'd mistakenly gotten the medal.

Now they'll either have to duke it out in the ring or ... another issue of Olympic Deathmatches!!! :O :P

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Jim F.
The Korean guy also didn't get marked down for a mistake that HE made. If scoring had been correct all the way around, Hamm would have won anyway.

-jim What did the Korean guy do, and in which event? Did he fall on his arse?

[matt27]

Originally posted by Jim F.
The Korean guy also didn't get marked down for a mistake that HE made. If scoring had been correct all the way around, Hamm would have won anyway.

-jim

In my opinion, there's a big difference between judging mistakes made during the routine itself (which probably happen all the time) and a scoring error made before the actual routine even occurs (as in the case of the Korean) which should never happen.

[Jersey Yankee]

Can someone please tell me who the Korean guy was, and what he did or didn't do?

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by Jim F.
The Korean guy also didn't get marked down for a mistake that HE made. If scoring had been correct all the way around, Hamm would have won anyway.

-jim

You are exactly right. I did gymnastics for 8 years and have a judging certification for lower levels (mainly because you can't make enough money to do it professionally) and I can tell you that he did an extra hold that should have cost him two tenths that he didn't get penalized for.
IMO - they should do what they did in the 2002 Ice Dancing fiasco and award two golds. Seems like that would everybody the happiest.

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Can someone please tell me who the Korean guy was, and what he did or didn't do?

In gymnastics, every routine has a start value. The posted start value for the Korean guys P-Bars routine was 9.9. Well, the start value should have been a 10.0 (the highest start value you can attain). However, his coaches and the rest of the Koreans did not bring this up in a timely fashion and therefor the score was not overturned. Well, because of this everyone wants Paul Hamm (the current gold medalist) to give up his medal. BUT, if you review the Korean gymnasts routine, he made a mistake in his routine that SHOULD have cost him 2 extra tenths (see my above post) and therefor Paul is the rightful holder of the gold. Does that make sense?

[Jim F.]

Now that SM66 has backed me up, we can move on to more important things, like where Mr. Hamm gets his endless supply of helium.

[StaceyRosie]

Originally posted by Jim F.
Now that SM66 has backed me up, we can move on to more important things, like where Mr. Hamm gets his endless supply of helium.

:lol:

Oh my God.

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by Jim F.
Now that SM66 has backed me up, we can move on to more important things, like where Mr. Hamm gets his endless supply of helium.

That was so mean...but I laughed pretty damn hard. :lol:

[yeahimweird]

Originally posted by Jim F.
Now that SM66 has backed me up, we can move on to more important things, like where Mr. Hamm gets his endless supply of helium.

:lol:

I'm not sure if it's helium, but it sure sounds like he's had one too many accidents on the pommel horse. :eek:

As for this entire thing, it's getting ridiculous. Out of this whole fiasco, I feel worst for Paul Hamm. He can't control the judges. He should not be asked to give up his medal, and I highly doubt he will. If I were him, I'd tell them to shove it and keep my medal. :)

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by SuperMario66
In gymnastics, every routine has a start value. The posted start value for the Korean guys P-Bars routine was 9.9. Well, the start value should have been a 10.0 (the highest start value you can attain). However, his coaches and the rest of the Koreans did not bring this up in a timely fashion and therefor the score was not overturned. Well, because of this everyone wants Paul Hamm (the current gold medalist) to give up his medal. BUT, if you review the Korean gymnasts routine, he made a mistake in his routine that SHOULD have cost him 2 extra tenths (see my above post) and therefor Paul is the rightful holder of the gold. Does that make sense? Sure does. If you're supposed to be penalized, then you should be. I can see why he wouldn't want to bring that out himself, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else pointed that out for him.

BTW, what was Paul's "start value" and his final score? Since the Korean guy's "start value" was 9.9 (down from 10.0), what was his final score?

I remember during some US Open (golf) or something, one South African had mistakenly "forgotten" to return the leader's yellow jacket after Tiger or someone else had eventually won. Well, when asked to return this, he told them to come over to his house and come get it!!! They never did.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by yeahimweird
:lol:

I'm not sure if it's helium, but it sure sounds like he's had one too many accidents on the pommel horse. :eek:I heard him on Letterman. He sounded like one of my nieces speaking.

Overall, these guys seem great, but I still remember ye ole "Thomas Flair" from Kurt Thomas. Great stuff. :)

[DaBoys4LifeNYY35]

No way he should give it up. All kinds of rules were violated by the people working on the korean side and by the FIG in filing and following through on this protest. Plus, like Misti said, Hamm came out and said the Korean dude actually should have lost another 0.1 instead of gaining 0.1 due to an illegal number of holds in his p-bars routine. I don't even think a duplicate gold should be awarded a la Salt Lake City pairs figure skating. When you compete in those sports, you accept that you're in the hands of human judgement and that there is a certain protocol to be followed when you end up disagreeing with that human judgement. I'm glad the USOC has come out in support of Hamm.

[deranged2005]

This topic really annoys me. He shouldn't have to give it back, and the Korean shouldn't get a gold medal too.

If the Yankees won a game on a close play at the plate, and after the game the MLB sees the runner was out, do they reverse it? No.

We're all human. We all make mistakes. I'm sorry it happened, but it isn't fair that Paul Hamm has to asked to give up his gold medal, or share it.

[WCNYY]

Originally posted by deranged2005
This topic really annoys me. He shouldn't have to give it back, and the Korean shouldn't get a gold medal too.

If the Yankees won a game on a close play at the plate, and after the game the MLB sees the runner was out, do they reverse it? No.

We're all human. We all make mistakes. I'm sorry it happened, but it isn't fair that Paul Hamm has to asked to give up his gold medal, or share it.
There was an article on Yahoo that tied the yankees with this whole thing. I posted part in the Jeffrey Maier conversation but here it is again
http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/gymnast...ov=ap&type=lgns
The next thing you know, the Yankees will offer to hand Jeffrey Maier over to the Orioles for stoning in a public square in Baltimore. Never mind that Maier was 12 years old when he leaned over the right-field wall in Yankee Stadium during a 1996 playoff game against the Orioles, deflecting a likely fly out into the stands, prompting umpire Rich Garcia to declare it a game-tying home run.

[Yankee Bulldawg]

Paul Hamm won the gold medal fair in square, there is no way he should have to give it back just because a judge made a mistake. I dont understand why the Koreans are practically begging Hamm to give his medal back. Get over it already.

[YankeeClemens22]

Originally posted by Jim F.
Now that SM66 has backed me up, we can move on to more important things, like where Mr. Hamm gets his endless supply of helium.

Can you imagine if he an Kerri Strugg had a child? Dear lord, that child's voice would be high.

[StaceyRosie]

Originally posted by YankeeClemens22


Can you imagine if he an Kerri Strugg had a child? Dear lord, that child's voice would be high.

Aw christ that's a frightening thought.

My dad was making fun of him in the car this morning because one of the traffic chicks on one of the AM stations has a similar voice. My dad says, "Did she steal Paul Hamm's helium tank?"

:lol:

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by StaceyRosie


Aw christ that's a frightening thought.

My dad was making fun of him in the car this morning because one of the traffic chicks on one of the AM stations has a similar voice. My dad says, "Did she steal Paul Hamm's helium tank?"

:lol:

I have been around this sport for a long time and I can assure you that his voice is better than it used to be. I am telling you is was much higher a few years ago.

[StaceyRosie]

Originally posted by SuperMario66


I have been around this sport for a long time and I can assure you that his voice is better than it used to be. I am telling you is was much higher a few years ago.

Oh I can't imagine!

Does his brother sound like that too? I've never heard Morgan speak.

[yeahimweird]

Originally posted by StaceyRosie


Oh I can't imagine!

Does his brother sound like that too? I've never heard Morgan speak.

Morgan's voice is slightly lower. :lol:

[Coney36]

If he gives it back, it wouldn't really be voluntary, but rather because of all the pressure for him to do so.

The thing is, you really can't change the scores. Like the USOC pinpointed, you add a point here, you have to analyze the entire routine too. And to be fair to everyone else then, you have to reevaluate all the routines, possibly changing all the outcomes. What's happened, happened, let it go. Whoever said that a sport that is judged by humans is perfect anyway?

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by Coney36
If he gives it back, it wouldn't really be voluntary, but rather because of all the pressure for him to do so.

The thing is, you really can't change the scores. Like the USOC pinpointed, you add a point here, you have to analyze the entire routine too. And to be fair to everyone else then, you have to reevaluate all the routines, possibly changing all the outcomes. What's happened, happened, let it go. Whoever said that a sport that is judged by humans is perfect anyway?

I agree with everything you said.

[SoCal Pinstriper]

I understand that most Olympic Athletes have goals that go beyond commercial oppertunism, but Hamm missed the all time chance to cash in.

If he had acted immediatly upon learning of the error, shaking the Korean competitor's hand as he graciously gave him the gold medal, Hamm would forever be the poster person for good sportsmanship. He would have been far and away the most memorable single thing about this Olympics, and he could have spent the rest of his life giving speeches on sportsmanship to corporations around the world in his high pitched voice at 10k a pop.

IMO, he really screwed this up.

[SuperMario66]

Originally posted by Socal Pinstriper
I understand that most Olympic Athletes have goals that go beyond commercial oppertunism, but Hamm missed the all time chance to cash in.

If he had acted immediatly upon learning of the error, shaking the Korean competitor's hand as he graciously gave him the gold medal, Hamm would forever be the poster person for good sportsmanship. He would have been far and away the most memorable single thing about this Olympics, and he could have spent the rest of his life giving speeches on sportsmanship to corporations around the world in his high pitched voice at 10k a pop.

IMO, he really screwed this up.

I usderstand where you are coming from, but just like somebody said earlier, did the Yankees give back the game against the Orioles? No. That was a judging error just as this was, but it was not Jeter's fault that the ump was wrong and in this case it is not Paul Hamm's fault that the judge was wrong. And who knows - Paul Hamm may not want to give speeches on sportsmanship. I was under the impression that he wanted to be an Olympic Champion.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

I just read that they are not putting him on the Wheaties box..... Too bad

[yeahimweird]

Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638
I just read that they are not putting him on the Wheaties box..... Too bad

Michael Phelps, Carly Patterson and Justin Gatlin will all be appearing on boxes of Wheaties.

It's too bad about Paul Hamm not being on one either. It might be because of this whole mess.

[OxDiesel]

Originally posted by YankeeClemens22


Can you imagine if he an Kerri Strugg had a child? Dear lord, that child's voice would be high.

and short....