PDA

View Full Version : Why did they pull Pedro today?



parkerstrong
08-01-04, 03:45 PM
The Red Sox postgame discussed Francona pulling Pedro after 7 innings. He did what Grady didnt do, and he gets nailed for it. You lose if you do, you lose if you dont. The real question is can a manager that loses a game not get blamed for it?

NYYFAN
08-01-04, 03:48 PM
Pedro's a 100 pitch pitcher...I'm sure he reached his limit...

Serge
08-01-04, 03:49 PM
He threw 101 pitches.

Byung-HyunKimCyYoung
08-01-04, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
The Red Sox postgame discussed Francona pulling Pedro after 7 innings. He did what Grady didnt do, and he gets nailed for it. You lose if you do, you lose if you dont. The real question is can a manager that loses a game not get blamed for it?

It's a completely different situation. The Game 7 they had a 3 run lead and the Red Sox bullpen had been lights out.

I don't think most Sox fans blame Francona for today's loss. I blame Johan Santana who is a fabulous pitcher and had the Sox mystified all day changing speeds well.

parkerstrong
08-01-04, 04:20 PM
Read this web site. They blame Francona for the loss today.

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

FoulkeLore
08-01-04, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
Read this web site. They blame Francona for the loss today.

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

Although I do frequent the site cause it can be humorous, BDD.com is the RSN's version of the National Enquirer. I agree with BH's assessment that Santana was almost unhittable today. Everyone was watching that changeup like they weren't sure what to do and most of the time it happened to be the called thrid strike.

Luciano
08-01-04, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by FoulkeLore

Although I do frequent the site cause it can be humorous, BDD.com is the RSN's version of the National Enquirer.

Heh.

"Ortiz shames city of Boston!"
City of Boston: Freakin' DNC gonna cause a huge me - huh? Ortiz? What?

cubswin
08-01-04, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by NYYFAN
Pedro's a 100 pitch pitcher...I'm sure he reached his limit...


actually, he doesn;t have a 100-pitch limit.

I hope that either they wanted to be cautious due to his hip problem last game or that he was tired (though the latter didn't appear to be the case) -- otherwise, an odd decision, imo

twentyquestions
08-01-04, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
otherwise, an odd decision, imo

join Remy and Sean McDonough.

and me....and who knows who else.

hellonewman
08-02-04, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
The real question is can a manager that loses a game not get blamed for it?
As Joe Torre could tell you, no.:)

For the record, I'm one of about 3 people in the world who didn't think Little's move was all that bad. They wanted him gone up there. If he'd gone to the bullpen and the bullpen had gotten whacked, he'd have been roasted for that move and fired just the same.

Buzah!
08-02-04, 12:31 AM
Saving him for the post season?

twentyquestions
08-02-04, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by hellonewman

As Joe Torre could tell you, no.:)

For the record, I'm one of about 3 people in the world who didn't think Little's move was all that bad. They wanted him gone up there. If he'd gone to the bullpen and the bullpen had gotten whacked, he'd have been roasted for that move and fired just the same.

Grady definitely didn't fit with the Epstein Era - I can't imagine that Bill James & Co. approved of his aggressive baserunning (hit and runs and stolen bases).

e.g.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030714fa_fact1

"Johnny Damon laid down a bunt and Mirabelli moved over to second. James winced."

Wrigley
08-02-04, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
The Red Sox postgame discussed Francona pulling Pedro after 7 innings. He did what Grady didnt do, and he gets nailed for it. You lose if you do, you lose if you dont. The real question is can a manager that loses a game not get blamed for it?

Ahhh who cares?

Today was a classic battle between the best pitcher in the league currently and the best pitcher formerly. What Santana is doing right now reminds me of the Old Pedro... everytime out you get at least 10 K's, he pitches deep into the game and usually holds the opponent to 2 or fewer runs.

Does anybody know the record in the AL for double-digit strikeout games in a season?

I know that Pedro had 19 of them in 1999, but I think Ryan holds the record with 23. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Euclis
08-02-04, 01:16 AM
This was something like the 58th time Pedro has pitched a double digit strikeout game for the sox, tying him with Clemens for the most in a red sox uniform. Pedro was taken out because...it was the right time to take him out. It certainly didn't look like he was suffereing from getting injured in his last start, but it was probably partly why he only threw 101 pitches(he's averaged 105/start). He was left in too long in his previous start, and it hurt him. He put his all out in the 7th, getting 2 more k's. In the 8th, he would have faced Guzman and Ford, who had already combined to get 3 of the 7 hits off of pedro.

Pedro was taken out at the right time, the bullpen blew it.

Wrigley
08-02-04, 01:32 AM
Yeah, Pedro got his 68th in a Red Sox uniform to tie Clemens.

Look how many fewer games he's started for them. That's unbelievable.

Something even more outrageous is that HALF of them came in 1999-2000 alone. So basically, Pedro had half as many double-digit strikeout games in two seasons as Clemens did in THIRTEEN.

cubswin
08-02-04, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by Buzah!
Saving him for the post season?



Let me guess: Contreras is better than him.

Mo_04
08-02-04, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Wrigley
Yeah, Pedro got his 68th in a Red Sox uniform to tie Clemens.

Look how many fewer games he's started for them. That's unbelievable.

Something even more outrageous is that HALF of them came in 1999-2000 alone. So basically, Pedro had half as many double-digit strikeout games in two seasons as Clemens did in THIRTEEN.

Wow. I get more impressed by this guys accomplishments every day it seems. And i already think he's the best pitcher to ever walk the planet :lol: .

YANKEE MAGIC
08-02-04, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by Buzah!
Saving him for the post season?

:lol:

ryanm1058123
08-02-04, 07:58 AM
Why did they pull Pedro? This is why:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1qs4o/2003/2003ALCS/10_16posada2b.mp3

Arod for President
08-02-04, 08:49 AM
Its simple you lose and red sox nation will make sure you hear about it. you win, and red sox nation will say good, you should have won. Ya cant win

kennyl
08-02-04, 09:23 AM
``Our plan was for me to pitch 100 or 110 pitches, and that's where I ended up,'' Martinez said. ``I could've gone nine but I didn't want to push it, go nine, and lose my next outing.''


I guess the idea of trying to win every game you play that day is foreign to some of these guys. I understand his pitch count, but when he says "I could have gone 9" then he should have gone 9 and given his team the best chance to win the baseball game.

FoulkeLore
08-02-04, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Arod for President
Its simple you lose and red sox nation will make sure you hear about it. you win, and red sox nation will say good, you should have won. Ya cant win

Sort of generalizing here aren't we? Given the game itself, a road game and a tough pitching matchup, if we had gotten the win I don't think under those circumstances most Sox fans would say "Good, we should have won anyways."

I do understand what you are saying. I, for one, am not one of those fans and I do not think many of them post here. I'm very tired of second-guessing, revisionist historian type, arm-chair Monday Morning Quarterback's in RSN. Let's root for the team, not pick them apart and make a disappointing season thus far even worse.

chanman7483
08-02-04, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by ryanm1058123
Why did they pull Pedro? This is why:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1qs4o/2003/2003ALCS/10_16posada2b.mp3

Man, i get chills just listening to that

Byung-HyunKimCyYoung
08-02-04, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Arod for President
Its simple you lose and red sox nation will make sure you hear about it. you win, and red sox nation will say good, you should have won. Ya cant win

Wow that sounds an awful lot like another fanbase that frequents this site.

twentyquestions
08-02-04, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Byung-HyunKimCyYoung


Wow that sounds an awful lot like another fanbase that frequents this site.

haha I and probably everyone else who read that thought the same thing.

Doc's Private Stash
08-02-04, 09:50 AM
Actually, I wasn't as annoyed by Pedro getting pulled after 7 as I was with the lack of a Keith Foulke sighting in the 8th after Timlin got knocked around to start the inning. I'm very confused by the Francona era in terms of his use of Foulke, quite frankly. Here Epstein, et al., were in the off-season flaunting our great new closer aquisition in Foulke, and touting him as the guy that could help us really implement our "bullpen by committee" ethos of using your best pitcher in the game's most crucial moment, and yet nothing has been farther from the truth thus far. Theoretically Foulke is a versatile closer with not only the ability to pitch multiple innings, but according to him a preference for doing so. Especially with Williamson still on the DL, you'd think 2 on and no out in the 8th inning of a one run game on the road would qualify as the most crucial turning point in the ballgame. Why no Foulke? He's been used in frighteningly few high leverage situations this season, especially given his advertising as a guy who thrives in exactly those situations...

Anyway, Santana was indeed dominant yesterday, that much I will definately agree with. Guy's got filthy stuff, and I'm glad we won't have to face him again in the regular season.

twentyquestions
08-02-04, 09:55 AM
I'm surprised that Foulke didn't come in, either. He came in against New York in the 8th inning with runners at the corners allowed by Terry Adams. Foulke's rescue worked then. That success in defusing a potential rally should have earned him more opportunities to do the same - especially yesterday, when he hadn't been used since 7/30.

FarvinMoosey
08-02-04, 10:35 AM
Francona is an idiot. The most frustrating thing about being a Red Sox fan, believe it or not, is NOT losing to the Yankees. Its watching them parade in a--clown after a--clown to be their manager.

I sometimes wonder if hes even watching the game or just asleep with his eyes open. He sends Pedro back out despite a typhoon that caused the previous pitcher to slip all over the place, but wont send him out when he's dealing and has 11ks over 7 innings.

Hell, even just one batter. This wasnt last year, wasnt Game 7. Back then the bullpen was on a roll, unstoppable in the post season. Right now Francona thinks his bullpen consists solely of Timlin, Embree and Foulke and has overworked Timlin in particular. He flip flops his style in my eyes with no rhyme or reason. Earlier in the year hes bringing in guys like Mark Malaska when Timlin should have been out, and now he brings in an overtaxed Timlin instead of...anyone else. Or hell, just throw Foulke for two, since we all know he is capable of it.

The game ultimately was lost by the team, like every game is, but it doesnt help when your manager is a boob.

I think Bobby Valentine drunk and on acid could manage this team better. And even if he didnt, at least it would be amusing to see him wander around drunk...