OBP and Sac Flies [Archive] - NYYFans.com Forum

WiffleWOOD

04-02-04, 08:09 PM

Here's a very interesting article from Athletics Nation. The author was looking into A's GM Billy Beane's career statistics as a player, and found that his batting average was actually higher than his OBP!

how is this possible? shouldn't OBP be at the very least the exact same as your batting average?

the answer lies in the factoring in of sacrifice flies....check out the article...

http://www.athleticsnation.com/archives/000186.html#000186

Dave in MD

04-02-04, 08:54 PM

Sac flies is another thing the mainstream media is in love with. Of course, sac flies even out over time. Its also the reason why batting averages are usually higher with runners in scoring position.

markp

04-03-04, 05:09 AM

for hitting a flyball out? I think SF is a silly stat.

KLJ

04-03-04, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by markp
for hitting a flyball out? I think SF is a silly stat.
i agree... unless a player is obviously giving himself up to advance a runner he should be charged with an atbat...

coalcracker

04-03-04, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by markp
for hitting a flyball out? I think SF is a silly stat.

I suppose we'll soon see a SGO (Sacrifice Ground Out) if it scores a guy from third. What's the difference? The batter still gets a high five, right? :lol:

YClipper5

04-03-04, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by markp
for hitting a flyball out? I think SF is a silly stat.

True. There is no "sacrificing" done by the batter in this instance. He's not intentionally giving himself up to move the baserunner.

AngelAstro

04-03-04, 03:00 PM

This was posted on Athletics Nation:

Sacrifice flies do count as plate appearances, they just don't count as at bats. OBP measure what percentage of a player's PA he reaches base, so this makes sense. The problem I have with OBP is that I think reaching base on an error (ROE) should count as getting on base.

This is especially true since it has been shown that certain types of players tend to ROE more often that others: speedsters and power hitters.
Posted by: Danny at April 2, 2004 02:06 PM

I was surprised when I first found out that ROE was not factored into OBP, considering that during the PA the player reaches base. I cannot think of a good reason that ROE would not be included in OBP. Can anyone else?

markp

04-03-04, 10:38 PM

especially since whether it's a hit or an error is sometimes decided be very unqualified people.

SODM

04-04-04, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by AngelAstro
This was posted on Athletics Nation:

Sacrifice flies do count as plate appearances, they just don't count as at bats. OBP measure what percentage of a player's PA he reaches base, so this makes sense. The problem I have with OBP is that I think reaching base on an error (ROE) should count as getting on base.

This is especially true since it has been shown that certain types of players tend to ROE more often that others: speedsters and power hitters.
Posted by: Danny at April 2, 2004 02:06 PM

I was surprised when I first found out that ROE was not factored into OBP, considering that during the PA the player reaches base. I cannot think of a good reason that ROE would not be included in OBP. Can anyone else?

good point

RIyankee

04-05-04, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by markp
for hitting a flyball out? I think SF is a silly stat.

I wished Aaron Boone had gotten credit for one those silly stats in Game 4 of the 2003 WS. ;)

RIyankee

04-05-04, 08:38 AM

The second game in Japan opened my eyes to a misleading set of cirumstances...

Against the DRays, with the game tied at 1-1, Jeremi Gonzalez walked Giambi and Sheffield. Then Posada comes up and he swings at the first pitch! The result of that swing was a weak flyball that goaded Giambi into a baserunning blunder resulting in a DP. Tony Clark then hits a 2-run HR that should have been a 3-run shot. After Matsui's HR and after the Yankees built up a 5-1 lead, Posada becomes a terror at the plate and bashes 2 3-run HRs as the Yankees won 12-1. The media was quick to point out Posada's 6 RBI's.

A stat I'd like to see is a player's combined OBP and (SLG) when the that player's team is tied, up 1, and down 1. So many hitters pad their stats when the game is all but decided. This will separate the useful stats from the excess.

Thoughts?

AngelAstro

04-05-04, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by RIyankee

A stat I'd like to see is a player's combined OBP and (SLG) when the that player's team is tied, up 1, and down 1. So many hitters pad their stats when the game is all but decided. This will separate the useful stats from the excess.

Thoughts?

Most sabermetricians don't believe in clutch performances, to which you are alluding. Here is a nice article summarizing clutch performances:

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2656

Dave in MD

04-05-04, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by AngelAstro

Most sabermetricians don't believe in clutch performances, to which you are alluding. Here is a nice article summarizing clutch performances:

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2656

or maybe this article would be better

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2724

RIyankee

04-05-04, 11:44 AM

Both articles were good.

Thanks guys.

AngelAstro

04-05-04, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Dave in MD

or maybe this article would be better

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2724

That was fantastic. :lol:

12soriano2B

04-08-04, 09:03 PM

yeah...i remember about reading about being 'clutch'. Like Billy Beane would say about the Division Series he says about batters being clutch. "It is just luck!"