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nyyfanatic85
03-20-04, 09:44 AM
How is his injury coming along? I want to be sure this guy will be ready for the first Yanks-Sox series.

NDBoston
03-20-04, 10:20 AM
My guess is that you won't see Kim pitching until May for the Red Sox. He has an inflamation in his shoulder and had to shut it down for two weeks.He will be spending time in Ft. Myers once the season starts to build up endurance.

I can't wait for Kim to face the Yankees as the 5th starter. He's the best 5th starter in baseball IMO. (We don't need to argue this point again. I didn't forget about Matt Clement)

SubwayFanatic
03-20-04, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston
I can't wait for Kim to face the Yankees as the 5th starter. He's the best 5th starter in baseball IMO. (We don't need to argue this point again. I didn't forget about Matt Clement)

From an objective standpoint, I agree with you about this.

Kim, in my mind, gets unfairly scrutinized for throwing two gopher balls, three years ago, in a series in which his team ended up winning.

The guy has been a good/very good MLB player who has even shown flashes of brilliance.

I think he will be a very valuable addition to the Sox.

Soriambi
03-20-04, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by SubwayFanatic


From an objective standpoint, I agree with you about this.

Kim, in my mind, gets unfairly scrutinized for throwing two gopher balls, three years ago, in a series in which his team ended up winning.

The guy has been a good/very good MLB player who has even shown flashes of brilliance.

I think he will be a very valuable addition to the Sox.

I think that Kim, Lieber, and Clement are right up there as the best #5s in baseball.

SuperMario66
03-20-04, 11:29 AM
Hey Steve (or whomever else wishes to answer) - what was the main reason for making him a starter?

bakntime
03-20-04, 11:30 AM
Bronson Arroyo will take over as the Sox 5th starter, at least for the time being.

bakntime
03-20-04, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by SuperMario66
Hey Steve (or whomever else wishes to answer) - what was the main reason for making him a starter?

They needed one.

SuperMario66
03-20-04, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by bakntime


They needed one.

That's it? It didn't have anything to do with him, just the team?

NDBoston
03-20-04, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by SuperMario66


That's it? It didn't have anything to do with him, just the team?

Kim requested to be a starter, and the Red Sox were able to sign the best FA closer available.

I'm not on the Arroyo bandwagon. I will save that argument for SoSH.

YankeePride1967
03-20-04, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
My guess is that you won't see Kim pitching until May for the Red Sox. He has an inflamation in his shoulder and had to shut it down for two weeks.He will be spending time in Ft. Myers once the season starts to build up endurance.

I can't wait for Kim to face the Yankees as the 5th starter. He's the best 5th starter in baseball IMO. (We don't need to argue this point again. I didn't forget about Matt Clement)

That's provided they don't protect him and avoid pitching him against NY as they did last year.

NDBoston
03-20-04, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket


That's provided they don't protect him and avoid pitching him against NY as they did last year.

Kim was put on the DL for an inflamed shoulder. I will believe Theo

Kim pitched against the Yankees 7 times last year. He had a higher ERA with 6 other teams besides the Yankees. He must be afraid of those teams too. :rolleyes:

I love this 2001 discussion. Let's talk about it. Brenley brought Kim back the next game after throwing 60 pitches the night before. What a choker Kim is!!

Take a look at Kim's 2001 numbers in the NLCS and NLDS. Kim was one of the main reasons they made it into the World Series.

Kim pitched for his life in Korea. He had to win a game to continue playing baseball, or be forced into the army. That's pressure.

This argument is as idiotic as saying the Red Sox own Contreras after last year.

bakntime
03-20-04, 04:00 PM
BK "Jack McDowell" Kim hasn't proven much in the AL yet. I don't see how he's suddenly the best 5th starter in baseball considering he's had only 13 career starts. Maybe he has the potential to be it, but right now he's not even throwing a baseball, so about all he's in the running for right now is best 5th starter in baseball who's not currently pitching.

pacewon
03-20-04, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by SubwayFanatic
Kim, in my mind, gets unfairly scrutinized for throwing two gopher balls, three years ago, in a series in which his team ended up winning.

Actually, it was 3 gopher balls... But who's counting? :lol:

pacewon
03-20-04, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
BK "Jack McDowell" Kim hasn't proven much in the AL yet. I don't see how he's suddenly the best 5th starter in baseball considering he's had only 13 career starts. Maybe he has the potential to be it, but right now he's not even throwing a baseball, so about all he's in the running for right now is best 5th starter in baseball who's not currently pitching.

:lol: So true

NDBoston
03-20-04, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
BK "Jack McDowell" Kim hasn't proven much in the AL yet. I don't see how he's suddenly the best 5th starter in baseball considering he's had only 13 career starts. Maybe he has the potential to be it, but right now he's not even throwing a baseball, so about all he's in the running for right now is best 5th starter in baseball who's not currently pitching.

I guess those 4 years in MLB with an ERA of 3.24, would be good reason to think that.

pacewon
03-20-04, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


I guess those 4 years in MLB with an ERA of 3.24, would be good reason to think that.

Even though that 3.24 was compiled with 279 relief appearances and only 13 starts.

YankeePride1967
03-20-04, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


Kim was put on the DL for an inflamed shoulder. I will believe Theo

Kim pitched against the Yankees 7 times last year. He had a higher ERA with 6 other teams besides the Yankees. He must be afraid of those teams too. :rolleyes:

I love this 2001 discussion. Let's talk about it. Brenley brought Kim back the next game after throwing 60 pitches the night before. What a choker Kim is!!

Take a look at Kim's 2001 numbers in the NLCS and NLDS. Kim was one of the main reasons they made it into the World Series.

Kim pitched for his life in Korea. He had to win a game to continue playing baseball, or be forced into the army. That's pressure.

This argument is as idiotic as saying the Red Sox own Contreras after last year.

How short our memories are. In those September series Little even said that he would not pitch Kim in either series and did not. A direct result of his past failures (not just the 2001 WS which you keep mentioning, I never did) against the Yanks. He was healthy too! And he has never pitched well against the Yanks. He seems to be the next Bob Gibson though in Boston :rolleyes:

YankeePride1967
03-20-04, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


I guess those 4 years in MLB with an ERA of 3.24, would be good reason to think that.

Then I think Contreras 3.30 ERA last year should count for something too. Let's see Kim throw 175 innings this year before we overhype him any more.

bakntime
03-20-04, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


I guess those 4 years in MLB with an ERA of 3.24, would be good reason to think that.

ERA can be a very deceptive stat for a reliever.

YankeePride1967
03-20-04, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by bakntime


ERA can be a very deceptive stat for a reliever.

Very much so as they don't count inherited runners scoring. And 13 career starts is a bit pre-mature to start counting this guy as a proven anything. I'll take Matt Clement any day as a number 5.

NJOBP36
03-20-04, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by bakntime


ERA can be a very deceptive stat for a reliever.

It can be but all his other numbers are excellent too.

deranged2005
03-20-04, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by NJOBP36
It can be but all his other numbers are excellent too.

Could be because he was a reliever, right?

ACPS
03-20-04, 06:55 PM
BK Kim...yes, please! :)

bakntime
03-20-04, 07:39 PM
Kim

K/9:

2000: 14.14
2001: 10.38
2002: 9.86
2003: 7.50

BAA:

2001: .173
2002: .208
2003: .224

This is an indication that maybe baseball is starting to "catch on" to him... His BB/9 numbers have improved quite a bit, though, and his OPS against has remained relatively good.

cubswin
03-20-04, 07:55 PM
Obviously there are ?s about Kim, but if you're comparing 5th starters, Lieber has some pretty clear ?s, too. Hasn't pitched in 1 1/2 yrs, career era well over 4 while pitching in the NL, best ERA for a full season was 3.8, etc. And I like Clement, but again, he hasn't had a stellar career. There's a reason these guys are 5th starters...

pacewon
03-20-04, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
Obviously there are ?s about Kim, but if you're comparing 5th starters, Lieber has some pretty clear ?s, too. Hasn't pitched in 1 1/2 yrs, career era well over 4 while pitching in the NL, best ERA for a full season was 3.8, etc. And I like Clement, but again, he hasn't had a stellar career. There's a reason these guys are 5th starters...

Being that you are a fan of both teams, if you were given the choice of Kim or Clement to be your 5th starter right now who would you go with?

bakntime
03-20-04, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
Obviously there are ?s about Kim, but if you're comparing 5th starters, Lieber has some pretty clear ?s, too. Hasn't pitched in 1 1/2 yrs, career era well over 4 while pitching in the NL, best ERA for a full season was 3.8, etc. And I like Clement, but again, he hasn't had a stellar career. There's a reason these guys are 5th starters...

I never suggested there weren't questions about Lieber. My point is that I can't possibly see ordaining Kim the best 5th man in baseball with all the above "stuff"

NJOBP36
03-20-04, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by deranged2005


Could be because he was a reliever, right?

Never said it couldn't, I'm just saying that he wasn't a horrible reliever with a great ERA. He was an elite reliever and has a good shot of being a solid starter.

If Clement pitches like he did in 2002(lots of K's) then he's ahead of Kim until he proves otherwise.

YankeePride1967
03-20-04, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
Obviously there are ?s about Kim, but if you're comparing 5th starters, Lieber has some pretty clear ?s, too. Hasn't pitched in 1 1/2 yrs, career era well over 4 while pitching in the NL, best ERA for a full season was 3.8, etc. And I like Clement, but again, he hasn't had a stellar career. There's a reason these guys are 5th starters...

I understand that as the 5th starter that the expectations are lower. I just don't get too worked up about guys that (unless Bobby Valentine is the manager) get skipped over with regularity.

NJOBP36
03-20-04, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
Kim

K/9:

2000: 14.14
2001: 10.38
2002: 9.86
2003: 7.50

BAA:

2001: .173
2002: .208
2003: .224

This is an indication that maybe baseball is starting to "catch on" to him... His BB/9 numbers have improved quite a bit, though, and his OPS against has remained relatively good.

It's a possible concern much like with Zito but Kim still has a very good K-rate, though it's also lower as a starter.

ring403
03-20-04, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
Kim

K/9:

2000: 14.14
2001: 10.38
2002: 9.86
2003: 7.50

BAA:

2001: .173
2002: .208
2003: .224

This is an indication that maybe baseball is starting to "catch on" to him... His BB/9 numbers have improved quite a bit, though, and his OPS against has remained relatively good.

It could have to do with his unusual delivery. Very effective at first, but less so over time as hitters become accustomed to it.
It will be interesting to see how he fares as a full time starter this season.

cubswin
03-20-04, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by pacewon


Being that you are a fan of both teams, if you were given the choice of Kim or Clement to be your 5th starter right now who would you go with?



I'd probably take Clement, b/c I think he still has tremendous upside potential (as does Kim) but is more proven as a starter.

cubswin
03-20-04, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by bakntime


I never suggested there weren't questions about Lieber. My point is that I can't possibly see ordaining Kim the best 5th man in baseball with all the above "stuff"


That's a fair point, though I do think the argument can be made on Kim's behalf. I don't think there is an argument for Lieber (but maybe I'm wrong).

KeepClaussen
03-20-04, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by cubswin




I'd probably take Clement, b/c I think he still has tremendous upside potential (as does Kim) but is more proven as a starter.

Clement is 29 hes had two years where hes been an average starter in his last two best year. Why is he suddenly considered such a good pitcher? Cause he Throws hard? is it the lingering mega prospect hype that surronded him 5 years ago?

Kim COULD be the best fifth starter in the game but considering his peripheral numbers got alot worse when starting, id say its more likely he will be an average starter and get switched back to reliever where hes already one of the best.

BoSoxGirl75
03-20-04, 10:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240320102
(At the bottom of the page).

"Byung-Hyun Kim probably won't pitch before mid-April because of inflammation behind his pitching shoulder, team physician Dr. Bill Morgan said. But he added that Kim's condition was "much improved."

nyyfanatic85
03-20-04, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by BoSoxGirl75
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240320102
(At the bottom of the page).

"Byung-Hyun Kim probably won't pitch before mid-April because of inflammation behind his pitching shoulder, team physician Dr. Bill Morgan said. But he added that Kim's condition was "much improved."

That's good news. I want to see the Yankee Pinata back in action as soon as possible.

cubswin
03-20-04, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by KeepClaussen


Clement is 29 hes had two years where hes been an average starter in his last two best year. Why is he suddenly considered such a good pitcher? Cause he Throws hard? is it the lingering mega prospect hype that surronded him 5 years ago?

Kim COULD be the best fifth starter in the game but considering his peripheral numbers got alot worse when starting, id say its more likely he will be an average starter and get switched back to reliever where hes already one of the best.


Not sure when anybody said Clement is "such a good pitcher." What is there to see in him? 200 IP 3 of the last 4 years, guys don't hit him (H/IP about 0.8? high k/IP, etc. Biggest problem is control and focus, I think. Both are pretty important, but it wouldn't be shocking if he were to pull it together and have a big year. Again, these are #5 starters - kind of like Anthony Michael Hall as king of the dip****s in Sixteen Candles (no offense to Clement or any of these guys, of course).