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View Full Version : If the Boston deals go through...



YankyDave
11-25-03, 09:54 AM
If they pull off the Schilling move and are able to do a Manny for ARod deal, I'd like if Larry Lucchino would come out and apologize for calling anyone an Evil Empire. Pot meet kettle.

NDBoston
11-25-03, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by YankyDave
If they pull off the Schilling move and are able to do a Manny for ARod deal, I'd like if Larry Lucchino would come out and apologize for calling anyone an Evil Empire. Pot meet kettle.


Boston would then have a payroll around 125 million. Word is the salary level has to be at 120 million or less(below the tax level), meaning the Sox would trade Damon or Nixon or??

The Yankees should come in at a number north of 200 million if they sign Pettite, Colon, Sheffield and either M-Rod or Matsui.

80 million is quite a big pot

RYANSIC04
11-25-03, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by YankyDave
If they pull off the Schilling move and are able to do a Manny for ARod deal, I'd like if Larry Lucchino would come out and apologize for calling anyone an Evil Empire. Pot meet kettle.

Hell, good for Boston. Let them stack up their team so they can continue to be the best second place team in sports.

YANKEE MAGIC
11-25-03, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by RYANSIC04


Hell, good for Boston. Let them stack up their team so they can continue to be the best second place team in sports.

I agree.......

ACPS
11-25-03, 10:37 AM
Boston proved who the real "evil empire" was with their boorish behavior throughout the 2003 playoffs.

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 10:40 AM
Lucchino is a jackass...

DkNNy79
11-25-03, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston
Boston would then have a payroll around 125 million. Word is the salary level has to be at 120 million or less(below the tax level), meaning the Sox would trade Damon or Nixon or??

The Yankees should come in at a number north of 200 million if they sign Pettite, Colon, Sheffield and either M-Rod or Matsui.

80 million is quite a big pot

I understand what you're saying. However, since everyteam seems to demand much more from us when doing negotiations, I don't know how we can avoid the high payroll.

behindenemylines
11-25-03, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston



Boston would then have a payroll around 125 million. Word is the salary level has to be at 120 million or less(below the tax level), meaning the Sox would trade Damon or Nixon or??

The Yankees should come in at a number north of 200 million if they sign Pettite, Colon, Sheffield and either M-Rod or Matsui.

80 million is quite a big pot

Let me first say that it's nice to hear from a calm, reasonable Boston fan on this board. I would have expected worse (possibly like some of the Yankee fans on the Boston board).

That being said, why are you criticizing the Yankees for attempting to sign free agents while other big market teams like Boston (I consider all of New England a "big market), the Orioles (Washington, D.C.- Baltimore metropolitan area) and LA (obvious) get a pass? Some of the big contracts for free agents are re-signings of their own players- why should we be mad that Andy Pettite commands a large salary? You have to pay whatever the market demands.

They also need to sign at the very least one other free agent starter, due to retirements and contract expirations. Let's see how Boston reacts when Nomar and Pedro become free agents. The Yankees have used free agency no more and no less than the Sox. Their only advantage is they have enough money that if something goes wrong, it's no big deal. In many respects, they're at a disadvantage in signing free agents. How many times have we heard "Oh, he doesn't want to be in such a big market" or "How will he react to the New York press" (as if the Boston press is any more polite- I lived in Boston when they ran Jose Offermans and Wil Cordero out of town on a rail).

If I recall, when Bernie's contract was up, the Sox courted him heavily, so the Yankees had to ante up in order to keep him. Keeping your own players yields a high payroll, which is why teams give up guys like Pedro Martinez in "trades" all the time. Part of the difference between 120 million and 200 million is the cost of consistency, especially for good players (Bernie is probably past his prime, but that's for another topic).

If the payroll tax level stays at around 120 million after next season (I'm not sure what the rule for the tax- it probably changes a little every year) and the Sox want to stay below that, what do you think the team will look like in 2005? Or even in 2004 as free agency looms for Nomar, Pedro (and I think Varitek, Trot and Lowe, too?). A first round pick might not be all that attractive for a team that wants to win now.

YANKEE MAGIC
11-25-03, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by NicktheStick36
Lucchino is a jackass...

Well put:D

junkman73
11-25-03, 11:20 AM
Schilling would simply replace Pedro...Pedro's at the end of his rope...the Yanks went 5-1 vs Boston in the games he started last year. not to mention all the players who had career years last year would have to repeat those feats....no sense in being concerned until there's a reason to be concerned....

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 11:22 AM
The tax threshhold is $120.5 million next year. The Red Sox tax will be 22.5% for the first breach. Yankees will be 30% since this is their second breach.

I think alot of the grousing from the other big market teams is that there is a much bigger gap between the #1 team in payroll, and the #2 team. Last year, it was the biggest gap in baseball.

There is also animosity because Steinbrenner is a maverick. He's loud and boisterous, and he's definatly not one of Selig's boys. He voted against the CBA, and he was more worried about product then winning one against the damn players.

The Yankees also have a revenue stream that is unmatched by any team. Boston is the 6th biggest media market in the country, but they're revenues aren't close to the Yankees. Boston has been poorly run in the past, but now they seem to have their heads on straight. Los Angeles might get better with new ownership. Angelos is a nutcase in Baltimore, and we all know about the Mets. The Phillies have the 4th biggest market in the US, and the biggest unshared market, for what its worth.

I can't say I blame the 2nd tier big market teams, especially the Red Sox. The Sox have to directly compete on the same playing field as the biggest financial forse in the game. Not only that, but they have to deal with George's constant whining about just about everything that isn't in his self-interest (that Interleague thing was laughable. He was complaing about a schedualing bias against the Yankees, even though the Yankees NL opponets had a worse record when they played the Yankees then the Sox NL teams did. They also finished worse then the Sox' teams.) Also, there is alot of loser's remorse. The top dog is usually resented by the teams they defeated.

I'm just glad I'm a Yankee fan, where the only thing I need to worry about it getting dirty looks from Sox fans in RI, and listening to Yankee fans say there is a Yankee bias that seemling reaches all the way to the White House.

behindenemylines
11-25-03, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by NicktheStick36

I'm just glad I'm a Yankee fan, where the only thing I need to worry about it getting dirty looks from Sox fans in RI, and listening to Yankee fans say there is a Yankee bias that seemling reaches all the way to the White House.

It does....wasn't Dubya a part owner of the Rangers?;) ;)

NDBoston
11-25-03, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by behindenemylines


Let me first say that it's nice to hear from a calm, reasonable Boston fan on this board. I would have expected worse (possibly like some of the Yankee fans on the Boston board).

That being said, why are you criticizing the Yankees for attempting to sign free agents while other big market teams like Boston (I consider all of New England a "big market), the Orioles (Washington, D.C.- Baltimore metropolitan area) and LA (obvious) get a pass? Some of the big contracts for free agents are re-signings of their own players- why should we be mad that Andy Pettite commands a large salary? You have to pay whatever the market demands.

They also need to sign at the very least one other free agent starter, due to retirements and contract expirations. Let's see how Boston reacts when Nomar and Pedro become free agents. The Yankees have used free agency no more and no less than the Sox. Their only advantage is they have enough money that if something goes wrong, it's no big deal. In many respects, they're at a disadvantage in signing free agents. How many times have we heard "Oh, he doesn't want to be in such a big market" or "How will he react to the New York press" (as if the Boston press is any more polite- I lived in Boston when they ran Jose Offermans and Wil Cordero out of town on a rail).

If I recall, when Bernie's contract was up, the Sox courted him heavily, so the Yankees had to ante up in order to keep him. Keeping your own players yields a high payroll, which is why teams give up guys like Pedro Martinez in "trades" all the time. Part of the difference between 120 million and 200 million is the cost of consistency, especially for good players (Bernie is probably past his prime, but that's for another topic).

If the payroll tax level stays at around 120 million after next season (I'm not sure what the rule for the tax- it probably changes a little every year) and the Sox want to stay below that, what do you think the team will look like in 2005? Or even in 2004 as free agency looms for Nomar, Pedro (and I think Varitek, Trot and Lowe, too?). A first round pick might not be all that attractive for a team that wants to win now.

I wasn't criticizing the Yankees. I was commenting on calling the Red Sox "The Evil Empire"

I thought the guy who started the thread, needed a reality break.

Trust me, I wish the Red Sox had the 100 million more in yearly revenue that the Yankees enjoy now . I would do the same thing if I was George.

I'm pretty calm during the offseason. I lose it come July timeframe :lol:

NDBoston
11-25-03, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by behindenemylines


Let me first say that it's nice to hear from a calm, reasonable Boston fan on this board. I would have expected worse (possibly like some of the Yankee fans on the Boston board).

That being said, why are you criticizing the Yankees for attempting to sign free agents while other big market teams like Boston (I consider all of New England a "big market), the Orioles (Washington, D.C.- Baltimore metropolitan area) and LA (obvious) get a pass? Some of the big contracts for free agents are re-signings of their own players- why should we be mad that Andy Pettite commands a large salary? You have to pay whatever the market demands.

They also need to sign at the very least one other free agent starter, due to retirements and contract expirations. Let's see how Boston reacts when Nomar and Pedro become free agents. The Yankees have used free agency no more and no less than the Sox. Their only advantage is they have enough money that if something goes wrong, it's no big deal. In many respects, they're at a disadvantage in signing free agents. How many times have we heard "Oh, he doesn't want to be in such a big market" or "How will he react to the New York press" (as if the Boston press is any more polite- I lived in Boston when they ran Jose Offermans and Wil Cordero out of town on a rail).

If I recall, when Bernie's contract was up, the Sox courted him heavily, so the Yankees had to ante up in order to keep him. Keeping your own players yields a high payroll, which is why teams give up guys like Pedro Martinez in "trades" all the time. Part of the difference between 120 million and 200 million is the cost of consistency, especially for good players (Bernie is probably past his prime, but that's for another topic).

If the payroll tax level stays at around 120 million after next season (I'm not sure what the rule for the tax- it probably changes a little every year) and the Sox want to stay below that, what do you think the team will look like in 2005? Or even in 2004 as free agency looms for Nomar, Pedro (and I think Varitek, Trot and Lowe, too?). A first round pick might not be all that attractive for a team that wants to win now.

I wasn't criticizing the Yankees. I was commenting on calling the Red Sox "The Evil Empire"

I thought the guy who started the thread, needed a reality break.

Trust me, I wish the Red Sox had the 100 million more in yearly revenue that the Yankees enjoy now . I would do the same thing if I was George.

I'm pretty calm during the offseason. I lose it come July timeframe :lol:

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by behindenemylines


It does....wasn't Dubya a part owner of the Rangers?;) ;)

Haha...well met. I would say all the way to the UN, but Kofi Annan was a minority holder in the Kansas City Royals in the 70s :)

YankyDave
11-25-03, 02:44 PM
Larry's the one who needs the reality break ND. He cries and then might pull off getting ARod and Schilling. Hell go for Milton and Foulke too, it won't cure the curse.

Rich
11-25-03, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by DkNNy79


I understand what you're saying. However, since every team seems to demand much more from us when doing negotiations, I don't know how we can avoid the high payroll.

That's why I would like to see the Yankees' payroll at $250 million. ;)

NDBoston
11-25-03, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Larry's the one who needs the reality break ND. He cries and then might pull off getting ARod and Schilling. Hell go for Milton and Foulke too, it won't cure the curse.

no offense Dave, but the curse is for idiots.

IT was created by a Boston sportwriter I refuse to mention, as I don't want to help book sales.

I know it's fun to talk about on message boards, but that's about it.

The Yankees will still spend 70% more than the Red Sox and you won't see Milton near the Sox IMO

YankyDave
11-25-03, 03:55 PM
Blaming their woes on the curse sure beats calling them the choking dogs that they are, doesn't it?

NDBoston
11-25-03, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Blaming their woes on the curse sure beats calling them the choking dogs that they are, doesn't it?

I prefer managerial stupidity.

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Blaming their woes on the curse sure beats calling them the choking dogs that they are, doesn't it?

Mmmmm...dehumanizing rhetoric

YankyDave
11-25-03, 06:04 PM
Mmmmmm, kissing up to the Sox on a Yankees site.

NDBoston
11-25-03, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Mmmmmm, kissing up to the Sox on a Yankees site.

Well you started ths horrible thread. I'm glad there are a few rational Yankee fans on the board

YankyDave
11-25-03, 07:08 PM
Lucchino is a clown with an inferiority complex and he showed it last year when they lost out on Matsui. Now that the Sox are going out and pulling a "Steinbrenner" I figured he was due to apologize. Your only defense is they won't spend as much as the Yanks. Well, if your team won four World Series, you'd have a bunch of overpaid players too. That's the main reason the Yanks have a higher payroll. As far as free agents, the Yanks haven't spent any more than the Sox.

Pedro's cuff
11-25-03, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


Well you started ths horrible thread. I'm glad there are a few rational Yankee fans on the board

ND, just ask him about the windmills at Fenway. It'll be fun for everyone.

Not that I want anyone to go all Duka on you. :eek:

YankyDave
11-25-03, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Pedro's cuff


ND, just ask him about the windmills at Fenway. It'll be fun for everyone.

Not that I want anyone to go all Duka on you. :eek:

Are they finally gonna finish the job there and put one in?

NDBoston
11-25-03, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Lucchino is a clown with an inferiority complex and he showed it last year when they lost out on Matsui. Now that the Sox are going out and pulling a "Steinbrenner" I figured he was due to apologize. Your only defense is they won't spend as much as the Yanks. Well, if your team won four World Series, you'd have a bunch of overpaid players too. That's the main reason the Yanks have a higher payroll. As far as free agents, the Yanks haven't spent any more than the Sox.

I see you don't read the Wall St Journal.

the Yankees spend more money because they reside in the #1 media market and they generate 100 million more than the Red Sox.

The Red Sox CAN'T spend as much, because they don't have the revenue stream the Yankees do. The issues of being in the 6th largest market.

Lucchino called the Yankees the "Evil Empire" for losing Contreras not Matsui. I don't really like LL but he pales in comparison to your owner.

Steinbrenner was suspended from baseball twice and indicted for illiegal political contributions.

He knows how to win, I give him that, and I would love him if I was a Yankee fan. He isn't the greatest human being though. Ask Dave Winfield.

NDBoston
11-25-03, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Pedro's cuff


ND, just ask him about the windmills at Fenway. It'll be fun for everyone.

Not that I want anyone to go all Duka on you. :eek:

Dude!!!

BSMW is everywhere.

I'm off to get ND'ed

Pedro's cuff
11-25-03, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


Steinbrenner was suspended from baseball twice and indicted for illiegal political contributions.



Convicted.

Pedro's cuff
11-25-03, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave


Are they finally gonna finish the job there and put one in?

You'll just have to dream Dave.:lol:

NDBoston
11-25-03, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave


Are they finally gonna finish the job there and put one in?

OK. I will bite. Whhat the hell are you talking about?

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Mmmmmm, kissing up to the Sox on a Yankees site.

Whatever dude. Your arguements lose a lot of weight talking about baseball's biggest rivalry once you start calling the Red Sox "choking dogs".

Call me a suck up. I'd rather raise the bar and be a "suck up" then lower it by minimizing the opponet.

But if you want not be a suck up, I guess I'll toss you a bone.

"The Sux suck and will never win cuz Ruth and 1918! They SUX!!"

TAG
11-25-03, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by ACPS
Boston proved who the real "evil empire" was with their boorish behavior throughout the 2003 playoffs.
That is totally true..They were a bunch of jerks...

YankyDave
11-25-03, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by NicktheStick36


Whatever dude. Your arguements lose a lot of weight talking about baseball's biggest rivalry once you start calling the Red Sox "choking dogs".



How is that minimizing the opponent? If I didn't think they had the ability to win, I couldn't consider them chokers.

YankyDave
11-25-03, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston


OK. I will bite. Whhat the hell are you talking about?

I have a special affinity for Fenway. I have an equal affinity for miniature golf courses. I figure since there's already a giant wall, a right field that jets in towards home for no apparent reason and angles that would make a geometry teacher drool, why not top it off with a windmill in centerfield?

YankyDave
11-25-03, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Pedro's cuff


Convicted.

Pardoned.

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 11:04 PM
It was the dogs part...

Dehumanizing opponets is never a good idea. Makes you sound like a Sox fan

ACPS
11-25-03, 11:10 PM
But don't Sox fans dehumanize their own players by referring to them as "dirty dogs"? ;)

NicktheStick36
11-25-03, 11:16 PM
Like I said...makes him sound like a Sox fan ;)

Pedro's cuff
11-26-03, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by ACPS
But don't Sox fans dehumanize their own players by referring to them as "dirty dogs"? ;)

No, that was the CHB. And as you know, he's not a fan. Just a guy looking for a way to get some name recognition, write a book, pocket some easy money.

NDBoston
11-26-03, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by YankyDave


I have a special affinity for Fenway. I have an equal affinity for miniature golf courses. I figure since there's already a giant wall, a right field that jets in towards home for no apparent reason and angles that would make a geometry teacher drool, why not top it off with a windmill in centerfield?

Dave:

Let's review this thread

You thought Lucchino made his comment over Matsui going to the Yanks

You don't understand about how the Yankees can spend more money

You believe in curses

You compare Fenway to a minature golf course. You must hate the Ivy at Wrigley Field too. What hole on the course does that remind you of?

:lol:

YankyDave
11-26-03, 08:22 AM
I'm sorry I typed the wrong player when referring to Larry's little whine.

I perfectly understand how the Yankees can spend more money but I don't see the Sox payroll as Milwaukee's as you hypocrites try to.

I actually believe there is an organizational mindset that keep the Sox from winning. Maybe it's a curse, maybe it's reality. Either way, I think you guys eat up the loser mentality and "woe is me" martrydom that bonds Red Sox Nation.

Yeah the ivy at Wrigley sure is comparable to a wall that turns outs into doubles.

NDBoston
11-26-03, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by YankyDave
I'm sorry I typed the wrong player when referring to Larry's little whine.

I perfectly understand how the Yankees can spend more money but I don't see the Sox payroll as Milwaukee's as you hypocrites try to.

I actually believe there is an organizational mindset that keep the Sox from winning. Maybe it's a curse, maybe it's reality. Either way, I think you guys eat up the loser mentality and "woe is me" martrydom that bonds Red Sox Nation.

Yeah the ivy at Wrigley sure is comparable to a wall that turns outs into doubles.


I see the problem....It's what you think.

this board has some intelligent posters on it. You're not one of them.

I'm out of this thread

Pedro's cuff
11-26-03, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by YankyDave


Pardoned.

And convicted again.

YankyDave
11-26-03, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston



I see the problem....It's what you think.

this board has some intelligent posters on it. You're not one of them.

I'm out of this thread

Great response. Sorry I don't have any good feelings towards the Sox or their fans. I've been a Yankees fan longer than 7 years so I appreciate a bitter rival.

YankyDave
11-26-03, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Pedro's cuff


And convicted again.

In what court?

Pedro's cuff
11-26-03, 09:31 AM
That's right. 2 suspensions and only 1 conviction. I gets hard to keep track of his various misdeeds after a while.

YankyDave
11-26-03, 09:36 AM
Suspend him again, you won't hear any Yankees fan complaining.

Carissa
11-26-03, 09:41 AM
You guys can take it to PM or e-mail. This thread seems to have outlived it's usefullness.