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CalifYanksFan
02-17-00, 08:53 AM
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Selig says things aren't rosy for Rose
FEBRUARY 16, 2000 Print it!

MADISON, Wis. -- Bud Selig pretty much said Pete Rose has no chance of getting back into baseball as long as he's commissioner.

While Selig hasn't officially responded to Rose's application for reinstatement, he made his strongest public statement yet on the career hits leader.

"There is not a scintilla of give in that area," Selig said Wednesday during a speech at the Rotary Club of Madison.

Following an investigation of his gambling, Rose agreed to a lifetime ban on August 23, 1989, a deal announced by commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti the following day.

"Pete did accept a voluntary lifetime suspension from Dr. Giamatti," Selig said. "There hasn't been any new evidence since then. I think just from my answer, you'll understand my depth of feeling on this subject."

Rose applied for reinstatement on September 26, 1997, and the application sat without action until a few weeks ago. Selig's top lawyer, Bob DuPuy, met January 27 with Rose's lawyers and gave them 30 days to submit additional information.

Rose, ineligible for the Hall of Fame while he's on the permanently banned list, claims investigator John Dowd's evidence was not conclusive and he should be allowed back in baseball. Rose's lawyers presented DuPuy with evidence from their experts.

S. Gary Spicer, one of Rose's lawyers, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

Selig, who allowed Rose to participate in ceremonies for baseball's All-Century team at last year's World Series, said last week that Rose will not be allowed at a Cincinnati on-field ceremony honoring the Reds' 1975 World Series championship team.

The commissioner kept his remarks light and didn't comment on several current issues, including a federal appeals court's opinion last week that stated the owners' collusion against players in the 1980s was both real and damaging to the sport.

Selig also didn't address a recent medical report that androstenedione, the supplement once used by Mark McGwire, raises testosterone above normal levels and could be hazardous. Andro is banned by the Olympics, the NCAA, the NFL and the men's and women's tennis tours, but is allowed in baseball, the NBA and the NHL.

Selig said he personally wrote the news release concerning John Rocker's suspension. Selig banned the Atlanta Braves reliever until May 1 following the pitcher's remarks that he would never play for a New York team because he didn't want to ride a subway train "next to some queer with AIDS." Rocker also mocked foreigners and called a Latin teammate a "fat monkey."

Selig isn't worried about whether the suspension will be overturned by arbitrator Shyam Das, who heard an appeal by the players' association last week. Selig said his decision, which he made after consulting with Braves executive Hank Aaron, was the right one.

"Baseball is a social institution," Selig said. "It does have social responsibilities. It's a game that has a tremendous influence in society, and you should be protective of that."

Revenue sharing and stadium initiatives were briefly addressed by the commissioner, though not in detail. He said baseball's biggest problem in stadium construction or improvement lies in Minnesota, where little progress has been made in securing a new ballpark for the Twins.

"They're going to have to do something," Selig said. "I've been up there a lot. . . . Minnesota needs to do what every city has done. All these cities confront the same sorts of issues. Minnesota needs to address these issues."

Selig said some realignment and divisional rotation within interleague play could take place for the 2001 season. Some owners want to move Arizona from the NL West to the AL West, shift Texas to the AL Central, move Detroit to the AL East and Tampa Bay to the NL East.

The Rotary Club greeted Selig with a standing ovation and treated the commissioner to sing-alongs of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" and "You Gotta Have Heart," from the musical "Damn Yankees."

Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



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Russ
Official Ambassador From The Left Coast
GO YANKEES!! 26 in 2G

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nyy15
02-17-00, 12:46 PM
This topic is so touchy. You're either in favor or against Pete for the HOF. With a sound argument for either case. The problem I have is one man (bud selig) having control over Pete being in or out. Bud should have no control over the HOF. Who is playing, managing, .... for a mlb team is different. The HOF is for the fans, voted in by the writers (don't get me on this one) and the senior committee. If the fans voted him on the all century team, I think that maybe, just maybe, Pete should be in the hall.

Personally I think Pete should be in the hall. We give second, third, fourth, fifth ....... chances to drug addicts, wife beaters ..... that say the magic words "sorry", "I was wrong", but we all know better. I'm not saying Pete is right, but IMHO others have done far worse that are in the HOF today.

Bud get off Pete's back.



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Nome
02-17-00, 01:58 PM
Seahorse if they put in a seperate wng for "scoundrels" the first thing you would have to do is define "scoundrel". I would bet over half (maybe a slight exageration) of the members could fall into that category. Ty Cobb certainly was. If you define drunks as scoundrels then add Ruth, Mantle, Grover Alexander and many others.

No, Rose belongs based on his on the field performance. He and Shoeless belong now. Pete should be allowed to be voted in based on performance and he deserves the award now.

The thing I have against the whole situation is the lack of due process. Everyone wants Pete to admit guilt as a condition for reinstatement. Pete maintains his innocence. Now however you feel, the Dodd report was based on testamoney from known crooks. If we were to CONVICT pete, give him his day in court first.
Even if he were proven to be guilty I still feel he belongs. Does Joe Louis' and Willy Mays problems with the IRS and conviction for tax evasion take anything away from their Athletic performances? Does Jim Thorpe's troubles with alcohol dimininh his role as an athlete?
Gine Pete the honor he deserves.

Now Giamatti was a good person, BUT for whatever reason (and we won't get into that argument) Pete agreed to a lifetime ban in exchange for an agreement that nothing would be brought out with respect to Pete betting on baseball. Nothing in the Dodd report (accurate or inaccurate) would be brought out. Pete was given Giamatti's word that he could reapply for reinstatement after a year from the date of the ban, and Pete was led to believe that reinstatement was all but automatic. Why did Pete agree to the ban? Because he believed he could put all this adverse publicity behind him and be reinstated in a year. I would have agreed to that.

Then what happens, exactly one day after the agreement Giamatti reneges on it by publically stating he believed Pete bet on baseball. Pete was devastated . He knew then that reinstatement would be more difficult but he still believed Giamatti would hold to his promise. Then seven days Giamatti died of a massive heart attack and all promises were off.

PETE BELONGS IN THE HALL OF FAME.



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Nome

"The way a team plays as a whole determines it's success. You may have the greatest bunch of stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the team won't be worth a dime." George Herman ("Babe") Ruth

seahorse
02-17-00, 08:34 PM
I agree Nome. I was not aware of all the mitigating cicumstances. Someone belongs in the HOF because of their accomplishments on the field. The field is the great equalizer. But then what about this so called social resposibility? We can't just deify someone without recognizing their weaknesses. In the old days player's private lives were private. Today we don't allow them human frailties. Personally I don't care what someone does, or how they abuse their body as long as what they do is not performance enhancing (andro?). Rube Wadell is in the HOF even though his behaviour and drunkeness got him booted from every team he ever played on. He just didn't know any better. I don't know what the answer is, only that you can't say the words "social responsibility" without any teeth in your mouth.

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A39FCBGY

CalifYanksFan
02-17-00, 09:26 PM
Pete Rose should be elected to the HOF as a player. All the allegations took place, if memory serves, after his playing days. If you want to condemn him as a manager, great. But Pete deserves the HOF for his on field play. 'Nuff said.

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Russ
Chairman of the Looking For KimJeter Committee
Official Ambassador From The Left Coast
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JimF
02-17-00, 09:31 PM
Calif-

That is an aspect of this that I have never thought of before... You are absolutely correct...

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JimF@Bronx-Bombers.com

Ansky39's Neighbor's Best Friend's 9th Cousin, Twice Removed.

seahorse
02-17-00, 11:24 PM
Selig's right about baseball being a social instition and having a responsibilty. Nevertheless, Rose is the all time hits king. And what about Shoeless Joe Jackson? He's been dead for how long now? He was just a poor dumb country boy who tried to do the right thing. I say wait till Rose dies to bestow any honors, but give him hope by admitting Shoeless Joe to the Hall. Maybe they could build a seperate wing devoted just to scoundrels.

I like the idea of realignment but I also like the idea of a World Series. I don't like to see a lot of interleague play.

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A39FCBGY

[This message has been edited by seahorse (edited February 17, 2000).]

Kimmie
02-17-00, 11:57 PM
What a shame you gotta die first to get reckonized? Geez! I am a Pete supporter! This man should be in the HOF based on what he accomplished! I just hope that his record isn't broken before he can even get there!

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Vice President and Co-Founder
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Second in Command

yankeeg
02-18-00, 11:10 PM
You all make valid points but I won't lose any sleep if Pete is left out of the Hall of Fame.

Though his performance warrants induction, he broke a rule that affects the overall integrity of the game. Even though most requests for reinstatement are approved, I don't think Rose's was a guarantee.

I know everyone likes to bring social issues into the argument but I don't think they're the same. Drugs, assault, etc. are decided by the judicial system. Once the courts have their say, MLB makes its decision.

Gambling in baseball is dealt with by MLB and the buck stops there. Pete needs to learn that he is not bigger than the game.

If Shoeless Joe hasn't been allowed into the Hall, then I don't see Pete going either.

AnskyGal7
02-19-00, 05:23 PM
I agree with nyy15. though drugs, assault, and the other things are dealt with first by the courts, they are dealt with by baseball too, and baseball rules to give the guy another chance after suspension or what not. why not rule the same for gambling? though gambling is not a great thing, personally i consider hard drug use, domestic violence, and sexual assault all much more serious crimes that deserve much more serious punishment. I would love to see Pete in the hall, it was great to see him on the all century team. I doubt it will happen though, but maybe we can all look forward to a Field Of Dreams II??? http://www.Bronx-Bombers.com/ubb/smile.gif

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"The-e-e Yankees Win!!!"

"And if I can make it there, I'm gonna make it, anywhere. It's up to you, New York, New York."
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Bluesexy's daddy
02-22-00, 12:31 AM
I have to disagree with many of you folks on this one.

Nome, Pete was offered his "day in court". HE opted for signing a voluntary life time ban from baseball. As far as tax evasion goes he got his day in court. He lost and went to prison.

The evidence indicates that he WAS betting on his own games.

Please read some of the report. I started reading it knowing that I would discover more reasons to support Pete Rose. I started reading it thinking that Giamanti was dead wrong. By the end of the third volume I was
heartbroken. I loved Rose as a youngster, I even liked him after the fiasco came to light. Now I have lost all respect for him.

His PR campaign reminds me of the PR campaign that John Gotti put on. Gotti is now in "max" saying "they aint got a shred of evidence"....yea sure John....

I am NOT comparing Rose's crimes with those of Gotti. I am comparing the PR jobs that both of them put on.

Rose's behavior since his susspension is even more insulting than his gambeling. Rather than apologize he consistantly denies wrong doing. The commisioner was not the one gambeling with mobsters. Pete was, yet he blames the commisioners office for his woes.
Rose has publicly threatened to sue major league baseball. Go for it Pete. Unemplyed lawyers are a dime a dozen. If Pete thought he had a snowballs chance in hell of beating the evidence in a court room before a jury of his peers he would have been in court a long time ago. He is a disgrace. he was born with so much talent, and so many advantages in life that the rest of us don't have and now he whines about being a victim.

It has been painfull for me to come to this conclusion. I did not enjoy loosing my respect for Rose. He had to work pretty hard to get me to do it.

If I was convicted of tax evasion OR I was caught exchanging money with mobsters I would loose my business. No trial, no news stories, no sympathy.....I would just be gone.

Many of you would receive much less mercy than Rose received from your professional communities if you did half of what Rose did.

Pete beleives that if he lies long enough, frequently enough, and loudly enough, people will start to beleive him.

Remember, Johny Bench would have more reason to support Pete Rose than most of us would. they were close friends for many years. Now Bench does not want anything to do with rose and he has supported the ban.

Go away Pete. Please, for the sake of your own self respect, just go away.

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If you don't like the YANKEES go to another sight.

JimF
02-22-00, 12:39 AM
You brought up some very valid points, BSD. I am of the mindset that thinks Pete has been lying so much and for so long, that he is starting to believe himself. I think the key to this whole argument is the fact that he should be recognized for his accomplishments ON THE FIELD AS A PLAYER. I don't remember him doing anything wrong when he was playing. If anything, ban him from the "manager's HOF", but not the Players Hall. He deserves that no matter WHAT he did after the fact...

JMHO



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JimF@Bronx-Bombers.com

Ansky39's Neighbor's Best Friend's 9th Cousin, Twice Removed.