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Saxmania
01-10-03, 05:43 PM
NYYFans.com Fantasy League 2002

Structural Blueprint – Draft 1

Note – this is just a brain dump; I’m not trying to pretend that all of these ideas are going to be adopted or liked. I was simply hoping to kickstart some discussion and decision-making around here. Bear in mind here also that I’m not the most experienced fantasy player in the world, so less of the snotty comments. If you do disagree with me strongly, read the rationale behind a proposal before dismissing it. Ta.

League Structure

The League will be made up of 18 teams, organised into three divisions of six. Each team will play teams in other divisions once, and teams in their own division twice. Teams will be organised into divisions randomly, with the exception that any franchise in existence from the 2002 season will remain in its previous division.

The season’s timetable will progress as follows:

Week 1 – Week 14 - rotating intra- and inter-divisional matches
Week 15 – All-Star Break
Week 16 – Week 18 - rotating intra- and inter-divisional matches
Week 19 – Week 23 – intra-divisional matches
Week 24 – Divisional Series
Week 25 – Championship Series
Week 26 – League ends

18 teams seems like a good balance between participation and roster quality. Last year worked well, but bye weeks pissed off a lot of owners, and really made the commissioner’s job awkward. Additionally, I felt that the rosters were a little rarified – I picked up several players from waivers that I would expect to see starting in a fantasy league, if only as gambles. Alternatives are 16 teams in 4 divisions of 4, or 20 in 4 divisions of 5. These would give us two leagues of two divisions rather than one of three, but I’d prefer to keep the Wild Card if possible (it’s much more fun IMHO) and I like having continuity with last season.

Roster Structure

Each roster will consist of the following:

1 Catcher
1 1st baseman
1 2nd baseman
1 3rd baseman
1 Shortstop
3 Outfielders
1 Utility player

5 Starting pitchers
3 Relief pitchers

Up to 4 bench players, distributed freely between pitchers and position players

Optionally, a farm team of up to 4 players may also be included. The roster of an active team will therefore contain up to 21 players (with no farm team) or 25 players (with a farm team). Further details of the proposed farm system are available below.

Thought that it was pointless to include the neutral ‘P’ slot, as clearly starters are worth more. I honestly think that relievers were severely undervalued in the last game, and adding one more will mean that it’s not just closers who get drafted. It seems nuts to me to exclude an entire swathe of players that are, in real life, essential. An extra slot should encourage use of an actual bullpen, rather than just a closer and a spot starter. Rationale: teams need a bullpen. You can’t get by without one. Even if they don’t win you games, they help you avoid losing. Not glamorous, but essential, and so fantasy teams should be forced to have one.

Draft System

Drafting will take place in a serpentine system. A random draw will be established before the draft begins, and the first team drawn will have first choice of draft position. They may choose any of the first 18 positions, and the system continues with the next-drawn player choosing their position in the draft until all are filled. Owners may draft any player currently on a major-league 25-man roster. Owners may choose not to draft in any round, but must draft a minimum of 17 players during the draft.

This is just an idea, but I thought it would be fun to introduce a tactical element in the draft order. Do you want to go 18th and 19th or 6th and 31sf? This may well get dumped if no-one’s interested, but it seemed like fun to me. Ho-hum.

Scoring System

Points are awarded to teams according to the following guide:

Walk: 1 points
Single: 1 point
Double: 2 points
Triple: 3 points
Home run: 4 points
RBI: 1 point
Run scored: 1 point
Stolen base: 1 point
Caught stealing: -1 point
Ground into double play: -1 point

Win: 10 points
Loss: -5 points
Save: 10 points
Blown save: -5 points
Hold: 2 points
Complete game: 10 points
Out recorded: 1 point
Walk allowed: -1 point
Hit allowed: -1 point
Run allowed: -2 points
Strikeout recorded: 0.5 points

Hear me out.

I think that the hitting statistics worked very nicely. Sluggers were the most valuable by a long way, but you could still rack up quite a few points with a gap hitter notching doubles and triples, and runs scored helped to elevate low-power hitters just a bit. Ideally, I’d like to value speed more highly, but scoring 2 for an SB wouldn’t conceptually work (it’s not worth two bases), and rewarding speed from first-to-third isn’t really statistically possible. It may have a bigger impact in the game than 1 point, but how can you measure it? Penalizing errors just encourages a team of DHs, and hard positions to field such as short will get penalised more than, say, left field, even if the actual player is better defensively, because of the more difficult plays to make. Finally, I toyed with 0.5 points for a sacrifice, since bunts aren’t worth anything at the moment, but couldn’t convince myself of the need. Thoughts?

Pitchers were much harder. Strikeouts were clearly too valuable previously (they’re not worth as much as an out), so I had to introduce a half-point. Not altogether happy with doing it, but it’s the only way I could think of to balance the game. I think starters were overvalued slightly, in that they would rack up points through innings and the odd win no matter what – bad starters would still average 10 or higher. Penalising for a loss would help limit this, and reduce the phenomenon where all the top-scoring players are starters.

Relievers were even tougher. A save is important – perhaps not as important as a win, but remember, you don’t get one with every win, and it’s a different set of skills; arguably in even shorter supply. Who’s been more important to the Yankees’ dynasty – Pettitte or Rivera? Exactly. Saves are vital to a real-life team, and I think they should at least be highly important to a fantasy team. Plenty of teams last year got by with hardly any. Penalising blown saves helps add some balance (prevents mediocre relievers from being better than good starters). Remember, a reliever who blows a save will probably get a loss, too, saddling him with a –10 penalty rather than the –5 a starter would get for losing a game. This reflects (rather well, I think) the added pressure on a reliever. When he blows up, it hurts more than when a starter has a bad outing. In this context, clearly a hold is an important function – moving the value to 2 prevents a bullpen being save-obssessed. Holding down a chasing team in a close position is worth more in my book than getting one out. I hope you agree.

Postseason Structure

At the end of the regular season games, the first-place teams in each division progress to the postseason, as does the second-placed team with the best record (the ‘Wild Card’). In the event of a tie for any position, the winner will be decided a) by record head-to-head during the regular season; b) by points average over the whole season; c) by points average head-to-head.

In the Divisional Series, the Wild Card will play the team with the best record (including the above tie-breakers if necessary), while the other two teams are matched up. Home advantage will again be determined by best record. The winners of the Divisional Series games will meet in the Championship Series, with the same rules regarding home advantage. The winner of this series is the winner of the League in 2003.

Fairly obvious, I thought. I did like the idea of having day-by-day scores during the postseason – in other words, whoever scores higher each day wins the day, and first to four wins the matchup – but I doubt many here agree. It was just so neat – seven days to a week; seven games in a series . . .

Thus ends the basic league structure. The following is an outline for a keeper league and farm system. I think these additions would improve the league a great deal, at relatively little cost, but the league can function without them, and I know that some are opposed. Take a gander and see what you think:

Keeper League Rules

Before the draft commences for the following year’s fantasy season, each owner of a team that intends to take part in the season may submit players from their last season’s final rosters to be withheld from the draft process as ‘keepers’. These players will automatically be added to their respective owners for the new season. However, this process will require the use of a higher draft pick. The available players to be designated as ‘keepers’ are as follows:

All teams: Up to 3 players at a cost of a draft pick 2 rounds higher than the player’s draft level the previous year
Any playoff team: Up to 4 players at a cost of a draft pick 2 rounds higher than the player’s draft level the previous year
Championship holders: Up to 4 players at a cost of a draft pick 1 rounds higher than the player’s draft level the previous year

Example:

The Kidderminster Kings wish to keep Denny Neagle on their roster from the previous season. Neagle was drafted in the 12th round last year. As the Kings did not make the playoffs last year, Neagle must be drafted in the 10th round or higher this year to be a ‘keeper’, and will use up one of the Kings’ 3 ‘keeper’ slots. If the Kings had made the playoffs, they would have 4 playoff slots. If the Kings had won the championship, they would have had to draft Neagle in only the 11th round or higher.

If a team does not draft a player designated as a ‘keeper’ by the required round (e.g. due to a change in draft strategy), then the player may be drafter by any team in subsequent rounds. His former team may not then specify a replacement ‘keeper’ during the draft.

I really like this one. We need to reward teams that do well, but 4 players isn’t really enough to dominate a league year-in, year-out, especially with the escalating draft round. Remember, under this draft system every first-round pick from the last year will be available for the next year’s draft, as well as all but one of the second-round picks at a minimum. Therefore, each draft should be fairly fresh, without mediocre players being pushed up the ladder. But the system will reward drafting young (imagine drafting Pujols in the 15th round and having him available for year after year in the later rounds . . . ) without allowing teams to dominate perennially. We need continuity without stagnation, and I think this system provides it.

Farm Team rules

Remember, these rules can be implemented without forcing teams to use them. You can win the championship without a farm team; you can draft a winner without any keepers. It’s just another level/

On the Saturday evening before the youth draft in MLB, owners may enter the fantasy farm team draft. Teams will be placed in the draft in reverse order of the previous year’s record, with new teams assumed to have a record of .500 (their current year’s record will be used as a tie-breaker, followed by their points average). Any players in an MLB farm team who still qualifies as a rookie may be drafted. The draft will progress in a regular (NOT serpentine) order, with the first-placed drafting team picking first in every round.

When a player on a farm team is promoted to the majors, the owner of that player must choose to either place him on his roster, or to release him, at which point he becomes a free agent like any other. No other owner may sign a player who has been on another player’s farm team until he has played at least a full week in the major leagues.

Players in a farm team may not be dropped and hired at will. Instead, roster moves for the farm team may be made during the following weeks:

The week before Opening Day
The week of the All-Star Break
The week of the youth draft
The week after the Championship Series

Players in a farm team are automatically designated ‘keepers’, and do not count towards their team’s ‘keeper’ limit. If a franchise with a farm system does not continue into the following year, the youth players from that franchise first become available to draft on the week before Opening Day, unless they have since been promoted to a major-league roster, in which case they are submitted to the normal draft.

Youth players may be included in any trade deal, and will be transferred by the commissioner as soon as all trade parties notify the necessity. Trades including youth players are not subject to the restriction concerning roster moves.

I’m going to propose that a Youth Commissioner would administer the farm teams – there wouldn’t be that much work to do except during the specified weeks. This feature might seem fiddly, but I think it could add another dimension to a keeper league, encouraging owners to do their research while promoting a long-term approach to the game. Teams with little hope after the All-Star Break can choose to trade superstars for superprospects, or hold onto them as ‘keepers’ for next year.

Well, there you go. I like it – I’d play it – but I’d like to hear what you think. Too silly? Too complex? Too simple? Too British?

Other points to consider:

1) Fee? $10? $20? Only for keeper owners? Higher for keeper owners?
2) Site? Yahoo again, or can we find something better? Are we prepared to pay for one?
3) Should existing teams have precedence in membership this year?
4) What is the sound of one hand clapping? “Cl-“?

Thanks for watching – you’ve been a great audience. Ciao!

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Saxmania
01-14-03, 04:10 AM
All right, if you're all so clever, you suggest something . . . ;)

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

#1PaFan
01-14-03, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Saxmania
All right, if you're all so clever, you suggest something . . . ;)

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

LMAO!

I STILL like IP for Starting Pitchers but hate it for Relievers. It's an awesome stat for starters.

And by the way, you did one helluva great job this year.

Saxmania
01-14-03, 08:43 AM
Look, it was honestly fun, and hopefully I'm going to have broadband this year (own flat in a few weeks, fingers crossed), so I can:

a) actually watch baseball on a daily basis, and
b) help out with the fantasy league in a rather more polished way if required.

The IP thing is a problem, I admit. Too easy for starters to chew innings and counteract bad performances for lousy real-life teams by being the least worst option compared to a crappy pen. I've tried to balance it by increasing points for wins and saves, and decreasing points for losses, so you don't get so many points for "just turning up". We could change it to 2 points per IP, but as you point out, that screws relievers around, especially set-up men. 0.5 points per out?

Seriously, do you think I should put a thread on Just Conversation to attract attention? No-one seems to want to play with me . . . :( And I've finished my three-day assignment in less than one day, so I'm bored silly.

Oh, in other news:

Any team with more than one Game Started by its bullpen (i.e. the total from all pitchers designated RP) loses 20 points for the week for each game started by the bullpen over one. Meant to include that in the main body. Forgot. D'oh!

Hey, thanks for watching, anyway.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

YanksRockMan
01-14-03, 04:50 PM
is there going to be a fee again this year?

if there is...i dont know if i can get anybody to pay it for me, since im so damn broke :(

anyway...i would like to keep some of my players..

Coney36
01-14-03, 10:51 PM
Huh? :confused:

Sorry Sax, my mind's just not absorbing words right now, so it's like I'm reading a foreign language here. :p But seriously, you've done an awesome job, and I'm sure next season's league will be awesome.

BTW, Pujols a keeper. ;) :D

YanksRockMan
01-14-03, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Coney36
Huh? :confused:

Sorry Sax, my mind's just not absorbing words right now, so it's like I'm reading a foreign language here. :p But seriously, you've done an awesome job, and I'm sure next season's league will be awesome.

BTW, Pujols a keeper. ;) :D
Pujols, who?? :P :P :D :D

Saxmania
01-15-03, 03:46 AM
To be honest, I don't think any attempt to keep players from last year is going to work:

1) We didn't draft with that in mind, so some owners will have had draft strategies that will handicap them, and
2) I don't have a clear list of who drafted whom when, so we can't adjust draft picks for 2003.

In other words, I think the idea for a keeper league would be to choose players to keep after the 2003 season, not before. Nice try, though, ;)

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Yanksagain
01-17-03, 03:06 PM
Sax,

Great job with last season. I wasn't very confident going into the season with all the last minute cancellations and people disagreeing over how many players to start at which positions. You did a great job especially considering it was the first year for this league.
You outdid yourself with the new rules for 2003. I agree with most everything. Here is a couple of my comments/suggestions:

League Structure - I like the idea of having 18 teams. I hope this is possible. Seemed tough to get 18 owners last year.

Roster - looks great. I agree the bullpen was severely undervalued last season. A lot of teams didn't even have a middle reliever.

Draft - great. Never heard of such a way to draft. Sounds fun.

Scoring - everything looks good. I don't want points awarded for sacrifices.

Postseason - If we do get 18 teams, will only 6 make the playoffs? I'm thinking first and second place PLUS two "wildcards". Wilcards being the remaining two teams that have the best record.

Keeper - I like the keeper idea. Obviously, this would begin after we draft this season. Can't do it based on last seasons draft since we didn't draft with that in mind. You really lost me on the drafting a keeper rules. I'm still not exactly sure what you are referring to even with the example. Why not have it so you keep either 3-or-4 players each season? Those players are protected from being drafted and are included in your roster.

Farm Team - I want a farm team. Not sure where you are going to get the players listed to be drafted. It cannot be done at Yahoo since they don't have minor leaguers listed. It would have to be conducted on our own. Roster move order would be determined by reverse order of standings?

$10 is fair. I like Yahoo (its free!). I would hope existing teams would have a chance to come back this season (precedence). I prefer two hands clapping. ;)

Thanks for reading - you are a good commish.
Later,
Joel

Saxmania
01-18-03, 10:46 AM
Thanks for the comments, Yanksagain. Sorry if the keeper rules are a bit complex, but the idea is to:

a) Reward teams for accomplishment during the regular season, and
b) Prevent all the superstars being locked up as keepers each season before the draft.

Therefore, by having keepers being included in the draft as 'automatic' picks, we can force owners to "pay them more" (draft them in a higher round). This way, the best players are available to draft each year.

Try this: If you could keep any four players from your roster each year, whoever drafted A-Rod this year might keep him for the next 8 years at no penalty. A-Rod would be essentially tied to one team for year after year, unless his form collapsed or someone massively overpaid for him in a trade. But if owners were forced to draft keepers in specified rounds of the draft, and raise the draft round each year, A-Rod would be freed for the draft, because his owner couldn't draft him in a round earlier than the first.

Otherwise, it seems like all the marquee players (remember - 18 owners, 3-4 keeper = 50+ players kept) would be removed from the draft, which would severely penalise any new owners every year. This method reflects the idea of a "raise" for a kept player, and means that the top players are freed for the draft each year.

Glad you like the other ideas - yes, a farm team would have to be done by hand, but I think we can work it with some thought. I'll explain the keeper system in a better way if people like - at the moment I'm sitting in an Internet Cafe in a London Bagel Mania, the morning after the night before, so I'm not at my most coherent. Come one, people, let's hear some feedback!

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Bozidar
01-20-03, 08:52 AM
i'll make comments as i go through this:

Pitchers -- if you have a problem with how they were valued last year, award 1 point per inning pitched, rather than 1 point per out. I think penalizing a pitcher (-5) for his team not scoring enough runs is REALLY going to bite people's arses. I don't think that a save (something one guy can rack up 50 of) should be worth NEARLY as much as a win (which most pitchers don't get much more than 20 of). I think a +5/-2 for saves makes more sense, and puts the closer role into a more realistic form. Lets face it, teams do not NEED a closer. Teams like the Yankees who score a ................ load of runs, manytimes won't even be able to record a "save" stat. Doesn't seem fair to award Mariano Rivera 500 points for the innings he pitches, when Mike Mussina will pitch 3 times as much, mean way more to the team's success, and likely not even get 220 points from his wins. I realize that Mike will earn other points in strikeouts and innings and such, but in the system you have outlined above, he's also much more exposed to losses (as mariano is brought in for a save only, most times), and because he pitches so much more he MEANS so much more.

Also, by having a penalty for losses, you're going to also seriously screw over anyone with Armando Benetiez around June, when they play the Yankees ;) (loss -5, blnsv -5, OUCH!)

More to come..

Bozidar
01-20-03, 08:56 AM
I like the .5 points for a sacrifice. Not just bunts, but flies as well. It's an important part of the game, and if we can award points for it we should.

Btw, as far as speed goes, it is reflected in stolen bases, and runs scored, as well as (although a small amount) fewer GIDPs.

Bozidar
01-20-03, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Saxmania
Who’s been more important to the Yankees’ dynasty – Pettitte or Rivera? Exactly. Pettitte :)

Bozidar
01-20-03, 09:09 AM
keeper-league rules:
I don't know about 2004, but I think it's marginally unfair to begin keeper-league rules in 2003 when our 2002 league was not one. I can't speak for other owners, but i didn't draft with the thought of 2003 being keeper. I don't think that it would particuarly hurt my team, as I have a group of relatively young guys with promise, but 2002's team wasn't keeper.

I was going to suggest begining this as a keeper league in 2003, meaning it would impact 2004..

Anyway, if everyone else is down with this, I will go along.

Coney36
01-20-03, 11:28 AM
I don't know, maybe I don't draft with next season in mind, but I always end up with caliber guys that I would like to keep by the end of the season. Not that I ever even played in a keeper league, so that really didn't matter. I guess it's only fair to the other team owners, esp. if there are going to be new ones coming in.

Saxmania
01-20-03, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
Pettitte :)

Euch. I need to make my questions more rhetorical.

I'm not convinced about the IP cost thing, partly because I really like the idea of the conceptual out=1 point thing, which is straightforward and intuitive, and the base hit=1 point, which is a natural counterpoint. Additionally, with 1 point per run and RBI, you could argue that a run costs 2 points either way (2 per ER, 1 per Run and per RBI). I just think that's really neat and well-balanced, and hate to abandon it.

I take the point about losses - but then, valuing an IP at 3 rather than 1 will lessen the extent to which a starter can be hurt by a weak team. If he pitches well, he'll be in the game for a long time. And if the job of a starter is to win (hence 10 points for the achievement), surely the corrollary of that is his requirement not to lose? It doesn't make sense for me to reward him with the credit for a win if he concedes 7 and his team scores 8, but abrogate him of responsibility if he concedes 2 and his team scores 1. Them's the breaks, in my book.

Agree on the keeper thing, and am willing to be persuaded by the sacrifices. I think we need some more debate - where is everybody? Is Ansky around? Seriously, we should try and get some word-of-mouth going about this, because this forum is pretty dead.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Bozidar
01-20-03, 05:49 PM
the typical game has 54 outs.. how many games have 54 hits?

a hit IS worth more than an out.. that's why, as someone said, you can be VERY successful as a batter if you get 1 hit every 3 times at the plate.

an out IS worth less..

Bozidar
01-20-03, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Saxmania
I take the point about losses - but then, valuing an IP at 3 rather than 1 will lessen the extent to which a starter can be hurt by a weak team. If he pitches well, he'll be in the game for a long time. And if the job of a starter is to win (hence 10 points for the achievement), surely the corrollary of that is his requirement not to lose? It doesn't make sense for me to reward him with the credit for a win if he concedes 7 and his team scores 8, but abrogate him of responsibility if he concedes 2 and his team scores 1. Them's the breaks, in my book. Yes, but if a pitcher concedes 7, he's probably not pitching enough innings to get the win. Also, if he gives up 7 points, he's also getting a -14 to counter-balance the 10pts he gets for a win. the -2/ER is the balancing factor in that one..

Originally posted by Saxmania
Agree on the keeper thing, and am willing to be persuaded by the sacrifices. I think we need some more debate - where is everybody? Is Ansky around? Seriously, we should try and get some word-of-mouth going about this, because this forum is pretty dead.We could start taking away everyone's access to the other parts of the forum :) :lol:

Saxmania
01-21-03, 08:27 AM
Right. To be honest, I'm half-convinced, but I am still concerned about upsetting the balance with other points-scoring systems. For example, take a pitcher who goes 7 innings, allows 3 ERs for a win, with 6 hits and 2 walks, and 5 strikeouts. Fairly good performance, right? Well, if we lower IP to 1 point and Ks to 0.5 points, he'll get a total of 5.5 points for the outing. If we keep IP at 3, it becomes 19.5, which seems a whole lot fairer to me, considering that this is most likely his only points contribution of the week.

In other words, if IP becomes 1 point, then walks and hits allowed have to go down to 0.5 points, because otherwise a pitcher who allows a walk in a scoreless inning won't get any points, and a pitcher who goes 8 innings for 1 ER with 7 hits and 3 walks allowed plus 6 Ks, not getting a win, will have a negative score. And I don't think that's fair. He's pitched a good-to-great game, and it's only his WHIP that's hurting him.

I am prepared to accept that a save should be less than a win, but I do think 5 is undervaluing it. To be honest, I think the scoring system worked surprisingly well last year, and I think the issues that need addressing are:

1) Closers and relievers just don't earn enough points, and
2) Non-power hitters are slightly undervalued
3) Starters are rewarded too much for mediocre outings

Adding value to saves and holds should improve 1), a small bonus for sacrifices might help 2), and penalising a loss could counteract 3), in my book.

Maybe IP = 2 points? That might be a good compromise. Enjoying the debate, in any case.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Big_E
01-25-03, 03:47 PM
Just a question...how come no points earned for a HBP? Or deducted from a pitcher like a walk or hit?

Why is a homerun worth 4 points instead of 2? Giving 2 points for a home run, then 1 for the RBI and 1 for the run scored still makes 4 points. A 4-point home run is automatically worth 6 with the run and RBI added in.

Just curious....

Bozidar
01-25-03, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Big_E
Just a question...how come no points earned for a HBP? Or deducted from a pitcher like a walk or hit?


Originally posted by Big_E
[b]Why is a homerun worth 4 points instead of 2? Giving 2 points for a home run, then 1 for the RBI and 1 for the run scored still makes 4 points. A 4-point home run is automatically worth 6 with the run and RBI added in.Yes, a solo home run is worth 6 points, all totaled.

Saxmania
01-27-03, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Big_E
Just a question...how come no points earned for a HBP? Or deducted from a pitcher like a walk or hit?

Good points. Consider them added.


Why is a homerun worth 4 points instead of 2? Giving 2 points for a home run, then 1 for the RBI and 1 for the run scored still makes 4 points. A 4-point home run is automatically worth 6 with the run and RBI added in.


As Boz says, a HR is worth six points; four for the bases, and two for the run and RBI. A HR is qualitatively a more valuable hit than a hit that requires a second action to score a run, so we felt justified in allowing it to be boosted by the other scoring mechanisms. In terms of game balance, it seems to work out very well. The chicks, after all, really do dig the long ball.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

patrick.o
02-23-03, 03:40 PM
What about picking up free agents during the season to replace poor performers and players lost to injury? I didn't see anything above that addresses that.

Saxmania
02-23-03, 04:32 PM
Freely available. There's a two-day waiver period included. Rosters are updated on Sundays.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

patrick.o
02-23-03, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Saxmania
Freely available. There's a two-day waiver period included. Rosters are updated on Sundays.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania
Maybe I'm just dense, but could your expand on that? Do I get as many free agent/waiver picks as I want or am I limited to one per week or a certain number per season? Do I have to drop a player when I make an acquisition? If two teams pick the same guy does the worse or better record get precedence? And what's the deal with the two-day period?

Also, concerning positions, who determines what position a guy plays? Ventura is a 3B, but he played 20 innings at first last season. So can I play him at first? And if I do and he plays the whole week at third, do I get the points anyway? I'm just trying to figure out what's stopping someone from starting Sosa as their catcher.

Saxmania
02-24-03, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by patrick.o

Maybe I'm just dense, but could your expand on that? Do I get as many free agent/waiver picks as I want or am I limited to one per week or a certain number per season? Do I have to drop a player when I make an acquisition? If two teams pick the same guy does the worse or better record get precedence? And what's the deal with the two-day period?

Sorry - the above was rather abrupt. You have as many free agent and waiver wire moves as you like per week and per year. The two-day waiver period prevents one owner sitting online all the time and poaching each dropped player; once you successfully claim a player off waivers, you go to the end of the waiver queue. If more than one owner tries to claim a player off waivers, then the owner with the highest position on the waiver queue wins. After two days, the player becomes a normal free agent, and can be picked up instantaneously.

With regard to roster moves, you have 17 active players and a bench of four players, for a total of 21. When you make a switch, you cannot go over this number, so if you acquire someone with a full roster, you must simultaneously drop someone. Further, lopsided trades may mean that one owner has to shed players in order to balance his/her roster. Don't worry - Yahoo will walk you through this, and prevent you from starting a week with an overcrowded roster, although it won't stop you playing with a hole in your lineup. The 4-man bench is usually the best zone from which to make acquisitions, as if something goes wrong (e.g. the other owner pulls out of the trade; someone with a higher waiver position grabs your target) it won't affect your lineup for the next game.

This might sound complex, but as I say, Yahoo will explain most of the roster moves as you make them, and prompt you to select players to drop and move when necessary. Other owners will help out if you have any questions.


Also, concerning positions, who determines what position a guy plays? Ventura is a 3B, but he played 20 innings at first last season. So can I play him at first? And if I do and he plays the whole week at third, do I get the points anyway? I'm just trying to figure out what's stopping someone from starting Sosa as their catcher.

Yahoo defines each player's position(s) according to their own records, which isn't always ideal, but is generally close enough for our purposes. For instance, on the detail line for Ron Coomer, he'd be listed as 1B/3B, reflecting the positions he played last year. Occasionally this leads to problems - for instance, Edgardo Alfonzo was listed as a 2B/3B last year when he was really a 3B, and Phil Nevin as a 1B/3B when he was really a 1B, but since they both could play those positions, it wasn't a major factor. Again, Yahoo will inform you if a player isn't qualified for a position. Anyone can play in the Utility slot, making it an effective DH role, and OF is a general outfield position, and is not specified by LF/CF/RF for our purposes.

To answer your question, Sosa would be listed as an RF, and so could play any OF slot or the U slot, but not C - Yahoo would refuse to save the change.

Note - We did have a small issue last year with SPs being used in the bullpen, filling an RP slot while compiling (higher) scores as starters in the real world. We've got a safeguard against that this year, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Let me know if you need any more information.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Ansky39
02-27-03, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
the typical game has 54 outs.. how many games have 54 hits?

a hit IS worth more than an out.. that's why, as someone said, you can be VERY successful as a batter if you get 1 hit every 3 times at the plate.

an out IS worth less..

excellent points boz...

my .02cents:

.01) no points for outs and 1 point for k

.02) 2 pts for ip


p.s. dunno how i feel yet about the -5 for losses but i guess we gotta do somethin to keep boz from stacking his pen w/ starters again... :smokin:

Ansky39
02-27-03, 02:06 PM
whoops i got .03 more cents to add...

Walks allowed: -.05 point
Hit allowed: -.05 point
Run allowed: -1 points

imho mr commisoner sir, deducting 1 whole point for every hit or walk completely devalues sp..

the beauty of last year imho was that despite the plethora of slugger laden teams (cough) sanfran (cough) our league mirrored mlb axiom that pitchin wins...

the last two world series winners have done it on the mound and if we hope to get back and win it in '03, it'll be a direct result of our over investment in pitching this past offseas...

but you know sax, i'll go w/ the majority on this, i'll just have to adjust my strategy accordingly to devalue starting pitchin..

damn almost forgot my signature,

-bashers suck

Ansky39
03-10-03, 03:15 PM
mr commish sir, i was wonderrin if uh, if the rules re scoring were still under debate / discussion or are we going w/ what you listed above... :uhh: need to know to set my pre rankings...

tanks... :smokin:

Saxmania
03-10-03, 04:30 PM
There's a poll open on this forum, and I'll close it Wednesday evening. Shouldn't make a massive difference.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

patrick.o
03-13-03, 08:54 PM
Last minute rule disputer here!

I like the keeper rule, esp. the moving the guy up 2 rounds trick, but I don't like that the owner isn't forced to declare that he's keeping someone and then stick to it. If The Kidderminster Kings say they are taking Neagle in the 10th round, that should be declared before the draft starts and not be changable. Otherwise "changing your mind" could really be used as a tool to disrupt other owners.

Say, for instance, that The Dublin Stouts are trying to decide if they should go for a pitcher or another position. Part of the decision is based on who's left on the board. Seeing that pitchers are getting thin he forgo's his other positions and takes a starter. Then before his next pick 3 different owners all decide not to take a guy they labeled a keeper - all pitchers. Suddenly the Stouts see that they could have waited another round and still gotten a decent pitcher and instead used the last pick for that elusive catcher or second baseman. Now is Stouts pick again and the last of the desirable C and 2B are gone, but hey, there's still a decent pitcher or two up for grabs.

Okay, that was a long, convoluted analogy, but do you see what I mean?

Big_E
03-14-03, 09:10 AM
Patrick,

I understand what you're trying to say. Plus, there can be shennanigans by people on the ends of the draft order. Let's say i have the last pick in round 5 and the first pick in round 6. And this year, I drafted Octavio Dotel in round 7. (The actual last pick in round 7 by someone in one of my other leagues). That means if I want him next year, I have to draft him in round 5. However, with the last pick in round 5 and the first in round 6 I can pass him in 5 and get him with the immediate next pick. This puts him in round 6, and ultimately in round 4 in 2005, rather than round 3 in 2005, if I wanted to keep him again.

Granted, this is probably a way-out-there scenario, but it's possible. I would suggest that you HAVE to draft someone in the required round. No ifs ands or buts. Dotel (in this case) IS my 5th round pick.

Also, what happens with players you traded for, or picked up as free agents? Can they be keepers too? How would that work? If I pick up an undrafted player in July who then has a great second half, could I designate him as a keeper for 2004? And where would he have to be drafted? And what if I trade for a player mid-season? Could he be a keeper too? Would his draft position be determined by where the other guy drafted him?

Help! :)

Soriambi
03-15-03, 04:34 PM
Sax, it's probably just me, but I'm not getting the farm system. Also, with the keeper rules, if you draft, say, A-Rod in the first round, you would take him 1st round next year too even though you can't move him up two picks or what? Thanks. :)

Saxmania
03-15-03, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
Sax, it's probably just me, but I'm not getting the farm system. Also, with the keeper rules, if you draft, say, A-Rod in the first round, you would take him 1st round next year too even though you can't move him up two picks or what? Thanks. :)

To answer the second question first, you can't. The idea is to avoid locking up all the best draft picks at the start of the year (otherwise things would be highly boring for newcomers). So all of the first-round picks, and all but one of the second-round picks, will be available next year no matter what. This may be a little unrealistic in some ways, but I suggest you interpret it as the star players being able to command such high salaries that you can only lock them up for one year.

Re: the farm system, we'll go into it once a Minor Leagues Commissioner is appointed (which will hopefully happen after the draft but before the start of the season). It is a little open to change at the moment, but it shouldn't affect today's draft in any way. Apologies.

Big_E, a good point. My intention was that all players would be keepers based upon the round that they were drafted in - so if you trade for a player, bear in mind his "salary"! To keep him next year, you might have to pay a premium if his old owner didn't draft smart. With regard to undrafted players, I think we conceptually say that they are signed at the "league minimum", as if they were on a minor-league contract. Therefore, they can be re-signed at the 20th round (penultimate; or two rounds before not being drafted). This may require tweaking in the event of young players being introduced (otherwise someone like Alfonso Soriano could be locked up for 10 years after he makes the majors) - but I think that's a problem to hash out later, if everyone's happy.

Both you and patrick.o make good points about the keeper drafting rules - I'm not sure it's a huge problem, but we'll debate it during the next few weeks and make a decision to keep things clear. Thanks for applying some critical thinking! Hey, if anyone wants to help out as an Assistant Commish, we'll be hiring next week. Really.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Big_E
03-17-03, 08:06 AM
I was checking out how ESPN does things in their keeper leagues. The keepers are drafted first in subsequent years. So even though Frank Thomas was drafter in the 13th round, if Fishing with Mendoza wanted to keep him next year, Thomas would be one of his first picks. So playoff teams would have their first four rounds pre-drafted, and non-playoff teams would have their first three rounds pre-drafted. Also, since it's called a 3-season keeper league I think there's a 3-year limit on keeping players. This way someone couldn't keep a rookie for 10 years. After 3 seasons, he's automatically a free agent.

One other thing I thought of (if we stick with the original rules of drafting keepers based on the previous year's draft position...). Let's say a drafted player gets released. I pick him up on waivers. Is that counted as a waiver pick-up, or am I still bound by his original draft position?

SanFrANSKY
03-25-03, 03:41 PM
Just thought I should put in my 2 cents about keeper leagues. I am currently running one in which all teams kept 8 players from last season. The tough part was the Yahoo draft and ensuring all teams take their keepers while not drafting other team's reserved players. We solved it by having all teams remove the reserved players from their draft queues and praying that Yahoo didn't screw up.

I'm happy to say it worked. The catch is, I only have 10 teams in my league. In an 18-team league like nyyfans, there is a much greater likelihood of mistakes being made.

The only way I can see out of this problem is to throw money at it: either use a pay league that allows the commish to make changes, or to purchase fantasy baseball management software.

Unless there are some talented programmers out there who can write software for us?

Saxmania
03-25-03, 03:42 PM
Or we do a manual draft next year.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Soriambi
03-25-03, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Saxmania
Or we do a manual draft next year.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania '

It seemed like he was saying that he would just take the keepers out of their que, but wouldn't it be better to just put them on your DO NOT DRAFT list? Then you can't take them.

SanFrANSKY
03-26-03, 02:13 AM
I did in fact mean the Exclude List ("Do Not Draft").

And yes, it's fairly easy to do. Each team in my league was permiited 8 and only 8 keepers, so that means that each team had 8 players they had to draft and 72 players they could NOT draft.

I built my list and was being very careful, and it took less than 40 minutes. Later I added the players who are injured and a few others I didn't want under any circumstances (like Albert Belle).

The catch is that if only one owner fails to build their exclude list, it screws the league. With 18 teams it can get complicated. Some owners are flakes, some are busy, and some are just going to lose interest.

A manual draft with 18 owners spread out over several time zones seems also seems a bit too ambitious. I will keep an eye out this season for fantasy management software. Hopefully the costs will be minimal.

Bozidar
03-26-03, 06:43 AM
if each team were to keep 8 players, couldn't we simply do a live draft, and the first 8 rounds go to the guys you're keeping?

Big_E
03-27-03, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Bozidar
if each team were to keep 8 players, couldn't we simply do a live draft, and the first 8 rounds go to the guys you're keeping?

Boz,

You mean like I suggested above? ;)


Originally posted by Big_E
I was checking out how ESPN does things in their keeper leagues. The keepers are drafted first in subsequent years. So even though Frank Thomas was drafter in the 13th round, if Fishing with Mendoza wanted to keep him next year, Thomas would be one of his first picks. So playoff teams would have their first four rounds pre-drafted, and non-playoff teams would have their first three rounds pre-drafted. Also, since it's called a 3-season keeper league I think there's a 3-year limit on keeping players. This way someone couldn't keep a rookie for 10 years. After 3 seasons, he's automatically a free agent.

Ansky39
07-10-03, 10:01 AM
when is the trade deadline?

Big_E
07-10-03, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Ansky39
when is the trade deadline?

Last Trade Date: Sunday, August 24

Ansky39
07-10-03, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Big_E


Last Trade Date: Sunday, August 24

http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/1044043564.png

Bozidar
07-23-03, 01:15 PM
fyi, this is how long it's been stuck at the top of the forum:

From the thread logs
Thread stuck by patrick.o on 02-03-03 09:40 AM.