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View Full Version : Girardi out smarted by Leyland



Yankee-1
10-09-11, 02:45 AM
As Yogi once said 90% of this game is half mental. The Tigers won the mental game before game 5 even started. The Yankes saw Verlander do his bullpen in prep for the ALCS while Girardi said we would use Sabathia if necessary. Big mistake. Putting him in, even having him ready, gave the wrong message to the Yankees.

Girardi panicked. Why did he take Hughes out? Hughes could have pitched the 2 innings Sabathia pitched. He was overpowering in his first inning and gave up a bloop single before being taken out.

Cannot blame Girardi for the lack of offence but did mess up with the minds of his team suggesting they needed Sabathia to enter the game. Sabathia was not sharp. Yes he only gave up one run but when I checked the box score that is the run we lost by.

bigjf
10-09-11, 09:51 AM
I'm gonna go make some popcorn....

ZYanksRule
10-09-11, 12:40 PM
It's Girardi's fault the Yankees had 5 PA's with the bases loaded, and got only 1 run out of those 5 PA's? And that 1 run was a walk.

I'll agree that Girardi managed like a panicking manager, but this loss is on everyone, not on him alone.

I'll tell you what else -- before the game, don't you think the Yankees were comforted by the fact they had their horse available? When he came in, I certainly felt better about the situation.

Yankee-1
10-09-11, 12:54 PM
It's Girardi's fault the Yankees had 5 PA's with the bases loaded, and got only 1 run out of those 5 PA's? And that 1 run was a walk.

I'll agree that Girardi managed like a panicking manager, but this loss is on everyone, not on him alone.

I'll tell you what else -- before the game, don't you think the Yankees were comforted by the fact they had their horse available? When he came in, I certainly felt better about the situation.

I agree it was not Girardi's fault that the hitters couldn't get a ball to the outfield.

But unlike you I felt that the game was lost when Sabathia came in. He was used up and needed rest. Maybe if Huges was in trouble then use Sabathia as a last resort but Hughes was pitching fine. Joe just panicked.

bomber395
10-09-11, 01:29 PM
It's Girardi's fault the Yankees had 5 PA's with the bases loaded, and got only 1 run out of those 5 PA's? And that 1 run was a walk.

I'll agree that Girardi managed like a panicking manager, but this loss is on everyone, not on him alone.

I'll tell you what else -- before the game, don't you think the Yankees were comforted by the fact they had their horse available? When he came in, I certainly felt better about the situation.
he overused the bullpen but didn"t have one pinched hitter ????

Yankee-1
10-09-11, 01:47 PM
he overused the bullpen but didn"t have one pinched hitter ????


maybe Jones or Montero deserved an AB

ZYanksRule
10-09-11, 02:25 PM
I agree it was not Girardi's fault that the hitters couldn't get a ball to the outfield.

But unlike you I felt that the game was lost when Sabathia came in. He was used up and needed rest. Maybe if Huges was in trouble then use Sabathia as a last resort but Hughes was pitching fine. Joe just panicked.

How do you know Sabathia was used up and needed rest? Are you in the locker room? Have you talked to CC? Girardi has a lot more information than we do, and talks to his players every day in a situation like that. I trust that he not only knew what he was doing, but that CC was begging to pitch. That day was CC's throw day, so he was used to throwing on that day -- the only difference was, he was in a game instead of in the bullpen.

yankees2010
10-09-11, 04:18 PM
The Tigers got one run for the final 8.2 innings. Like his moves or not, they worked.

mr.roy
10-09-11, 05:02 PM
..........and they still lost. I didn't like CC coming in relief, as the Yankees have solid relief pitchers.

Hughes could have easily pitched to another 1-3 batters.

He had Cory Wade up and went to CC instead and that run cost the Yankees dearly.
Could Wade or Hughes given up a run or 2...sure, but they are or have been relief pitchers.

That was CC's 1st ever relief effort (and it showed) and here's what we got in 1.1 IP.....
2H 2BB and 1ER, albeit he had 4SO...... I mean he threw 37 pitches!
but allowing 4 men to reach base trying to get 4 outs cost the run that eventually did the Yankees in.

This is after he pitched just a few days earlier (I know he was squeezed horribly) in which 5.1IP he gave up 7H 6BB 4ER and SO only 3, throwing 106 pitches.
So he ends up throwin' 142 pitches in 6.2 innings in what... a 3 day span?

The actual RP went 5.2IP 3H 0BB 6SO 0ER in the final game. Makes CC look like a relief novice, that he was.

I won't say Joe was out foxed........but CC in relief turned out to be a bad move, that I surely at the time did not agree with.
Not goin' take Joe to the woodshed for it............but at the time, that move had a foul stench to it.

YankeePride1967
10-09-11, 05:05 PM
We lost because we left half the planet on base, not because we allowed 1 run over the final 8 2/3 IP. The pitching did their job, the bats didn't.

mr.roy
10-09-11, 05:12 PM
Yeah.....and CC gave up the run............and the Yankees lost 3-2.....by one run....and 5 other relief pitchers didn't allow any runs....five.
So that helped lose the game along with other factors including what you state.

I still didn't like the move..regardless. Even if the Yankees won the game 4-3 I still wouldn't agree with that move.

Now, I will move.................................on.

YankeePride1967
10-09-11, 05:21 PM
A bullpen that allows 1 run over 8 2/3 isn't doing a good job, it is doing a great job. The bullpen was the only part of our game that worked Thursday night. And this board spent 3/4 of the year blasting Hughes, now all of a sudden we want him on the mound?

JL25and3
10-09-11, 06:15 PM
He had Cory Wade up and went to CC instead and that run cost the Yankees dearly.
Seriously?

fredgmuggs
10-09-11, 06:18 PM
A bullpen that allows 1 run over 8 2/3 isn't doing a good job, it is doing a great job. The bullpen was the only part of our game that worked Thursday night. And this board spent 3/4 of the year blasting Hughes, now all of a sudden we want him on the mound?

Sometimes it just isn't meant to be. I turned the page on the Yankees baseball year as soon as it ended.

Kentucky Bomber
10-09-11, 06:22 PM
Sometimes it just isn't meant to be. I turned the page on the Yankees baseball year as soon as it ended.

Amen.

YankeePride1967
10-09-11, 06:23 PM
Sometimes it just isn't meant to be. I turned the page on the Yankees baseball year as soon as it ended.

As did I. I was over it 5 minutes after the game ended. The days of sports affecting my mood is long over.

2JAY
10-09-11, 06:33 PM
This is classic second guessing at its best. The injury to Nova forced Gorardi into using the pen early and creatively. And he was able to get 7 innings, with only 1 run allowed, by mixing and matching. I guarantee that if you did not know what the final score would be, there isn't anybody who would of been disappointed or upset with a bullpen result like that. Yet somehow Girardi was "out smarted" because his high scoring offense simply could not push runs across when given the oppurtunity to do so. How about placing the blame where it truly lies: with the lack of offense.

35Knucklecurve
10-10-11, 08:39 AM
As did I. I was over it 5 minutes after the game ended. The days of sports affecting my mood is long over.
Those are my thoughts too. It used to ruin everything for the next day (or more, depending on the circumstances) if they lost. On the other hand, a win could make me a grinning fool for the entire week. There are much more important things now that require the enery spent on my reaction to a ballgame.....and if that doesn't work, all I have to do is remember that these guys are millionaires 10 time over and a bad day at my job doesn't affect them one bit.

I can't fault Girardi or any one person for the results of the ALDS - they got there as a team and they lost as one and they got a lot farther than most people thought they would.

Yankee Fan in Boston
10-10-11, 01:56 PM
Before the game started? CC wouldn't have pitched had the starter not gotten injured and only been able to pitch two innings.

yankees2010
10-10-11, 02:05 PM
If Jeter had hit that ball 4 more feet, everyone would be talking about how Girardi had everyone ready for a winner take all, and Leyland decided to have the best pitcher in the sport toss a bullpen for a Game 1 that never happened.

Second guessing Girardi for game 5 is ridiculous. The Yankee players lost this game, not the manager.

GeraldGarcia
10-10-11, 03:20 PM
It's tough to say that Leyland outsmarted anyone. Leyland chose to sit Verlander in an elimination game even though he could have almost definitely given him an inning or two. It worked out in the end, but if the Tigers had coughed up the lead (in a one run game), Leyland's decision would have looked a lot worse than anything Girardi did or didn't do in that series.