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justtxyank
04-23-11, 09:20 PM
This is getting silly. I guess that's what happens when you sign an undervalued former All-star catcher who is 28 and in his absolute prime.

It's hard to believe people really blasted this deal because of what it meant to Cervelli. A guy with 1 career homerun in 365 at bats was our worry? LOL. Martin already has 6 lol.

False1
04-23-11, 09:22 PM
It's hard to believe people really blasted this deal because of what it meant to Cervelli. A guy with 1 career homerun in 365 at bats was our worry? LOL. Martin already has 6 lol.Amen. And he's been so much better defensively.

THEBOSS84
04-23-11, 09:24 PM
Paging delv...

False1
04-23-11, 09:25 PM
Is Javy's Ghost still sitting this guy on the bench?

delv
04-23-11, 09:40 PM
glad to see him back healthy and in his all-star form.

and f the orioles

bomber999
04-23-11, 09:54 PM
Comeback player of the year. Who is a better catcher in the AL now?

Blazer
04-23-11, 09:58 PM
Girardi will make them pay tomorrow. Hopefully it's that SS that was chirping at Tex.

THEBOSS84
04-23-11, 09:59 PM
Watching his postgame interview with Kim Jones made me like him even more.

kan_t
04-23-11, 10:00 PM
Comeback player of the year. Who is a better catcher in the AL now?
No catcher is better than him in the whole league right now.

THEBOSS84
04-23-11, 10:01 PM
Cashman should offer him a 4 year $24M extension tomorrow.

pleasepassthesoup
04-23-11, 10:04 PM
Best FA pick up ever?

Chris Hammond?

d32123
04-23-11, 10:05 PM
Jesus who? Russell Martin ftw!

delv
04-23-11, 10:07 PM
Watching his postgame interview with Kim Jones made me like him even more.


seriously. he's a G. talkin' about "I had a knot in a my back and the HBP fixed it up." In other words, 'I eat those.'

bomber999
04-23-11, 10:10 PM
seriously. he's a G. talkin' about "I had a knot in a my back and the HBP fixed it up." In other words, 'I eat those.'

RMart has the mentality of a hockey player. Tough as nails with attitude. Love him.

NYDCYankee
04-23-11, 10:35 PM
seriously. he's a G. talkin' about "I had a knot in a my back and the HBP fixed it up." In other words, 'I eat those.'

Haha!

grizy
04-23-11, 10:51 PM
Not an upgrade from Cervelli

yankee82093
04-24-11, 02:16 AM
I was in favor of the signing but let's not freak out everyone. I would still put his true talent level at this point in time at like .345ish wOBA, which may be generous. Give or take a lot

NY Dude
04-24-11, 02:21 AM
Seriously, how did we get this guy? His offensive production thus far is better than most of the guys who get paid between $10-15 million a year.

awy
04-24-11, 06:38 AM
I was in favor of the signing but let's not freak out everyone. I would still put his true talent level at this point in time at like .345ish wOBA, which may be generous. Give or take a lot

at this point scouting is better.

Yankees13
04-24-11, 07:13 AM
I was in favor of the signing but let's not freak out everyone. I would still put his true talent level at this point in time at like .345ish wOBA, which may be generous. Give or take a lot
I don't know, he's clearly healthy in a way that he hasn't been the last couple of years. I don't expect his power surge to continue but he's always had very good on-base skills. What an incredible signing.

steveo_88
04-24-11, 07:49 AM
I don't know, he's clearly healthy in a way that he hasn't been the last couple of years. I don't expect his power surge to continue but he's always had very good on-base skills. What an incredible signing.

I say you ride the muscle wave while he's hot. Martin has been a solid catcher so far this season and contributed well with his offense, only time will tell if he can keep it up. The best part of this for me is it takes the pressure of Cervelli coming back. Instead of rushing Cervelli back and possibly picking up another injury the team can comfortably win with Martin.

The cherry on top is if Martin continues to excel Cervelli will have to really prove himself to force Martin out! :)

ppa79
04-24-11, 10:45 AM
This guy has been amazing so far.

awy
04-24-11, 10:52 AM
you can have a historical trend at a certain level of granularity, but not knowing why something failed historically in a higher granularity is indeed a lack of valuable information. if you know something deeper about the problem being looked at, then you can at least develop a situationally valuable idea about particular players having effective traits, such as "being injured" "learned new skill" "stopped having nervous breakdowns" etc etc. these things you just gotta see to know, the act of seeing, empirical investigation, is important far beyond just doing one analysis on a particular level of information.

that's the role of scouting, which to me really means breaking down "players" into finer units of analysis. this may come at a cost obviously because emergent patterns in higher order systems, but w/eee. traditional scouting of tools focus too much on what happens when a particular tool actualizes, and doesn't have much clue on when it doesn't happen. summon science and stuff to solve this, and statistics upon traditional game events can in a way account for the current pattern of activations/fail to activate, but i don't think it pins down the specific player enough to make closer observation unproductive apriori.

-tz
04-24-11, 11:15 AM
He's back in the lineup today, day game after a night game and with a baseball-shaped bruise on his back. And after catching all nine innings of a 15-3 blowout.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/04/24/martin-starts-day-game-after-night-game/

ieddyi
04-24-11, 11:19 AM
Anybody else see the Cashman quote where he compared Martin's toughness to Munson's?

Not words to be used lightly, no?

Huktonfonix
04-24-11, 11:19 AM
There's no way this current streak continues, but at his peak Martin was like Posada with elite defense. It looks like he could be back to that level.

Also, it's way too early to even consider this, but when people talk about all the catching in our system and worry that Martin will mean we have to trade Montero because he's "blocked", it makes me think about what Martin's trade value could be if it comes to that point. A stud catcher in his prime with another year of team control and a contract that pays him less than, as someone said, an injured LOOGY.

delv
04-24-11, 11:34 AM
There's no way this current streak continues, but at his peak Martin was like Posada with elite defense. It looks like he could be back to that level.

Also, it's way too early to even consider this, but when people talk about all the catching in our system and worry that Martin will mean we have to trade Montero because he's "blocked", it makes me think about what Martin's trade value could be if it comes to that point. A stud catcher in his prime with another year of team control and a contract that pays him less than, as someone said, an injured LOOGY.

:uhh: Not really, homie.

Huktonfonix
04-24-11, 11:45 AM
:uhh: Not really, homie.

You're right. I left out that he was also a plus baserunner. I mean, he's no Cervelli or anything, but he's still pretty good.

False1
04-24-11, 11:45 AM
I say you ride the muscle wave while he's hot. Martin has been a solid catcher so far this season and contributed well with his offense, only time will tell if he can keep it up. The best part of this for me is it takes the pressure of Cervelli coming back. Instead of rushing Cervelli back and possibly picking up another injury the team can comfortably win with Martin.

The cherry on top is if Martin continues to excel Cervelli will have to really prove himself to force Martin out! :)I don't think Cervelli will threaten Martin's role as starting catcher. The Yankees didn't sign him to play caddy for Cervelli, even if he wasn't having this resurgence.


There's no way this current streak continues, but at his peak Martin was like Posada with elite defense. It looks like he could be back to that level.

Also, it's way too early to even consider this, but when people talk about all the catching in our system and worry that Martin will mean we have to trade Montero because he's "blocked", it makes me think about what Martin's trade value could be if it comes to that point. A stud catcher in his prime with another year of team control and a contract that pays him less than, as someone said, an injured LOOGY.That first sentence at a minimum should read "Posada-lite with elite defense." People forget how good Posada has been offensively. But agree with your last point and have stated that here since the signing. Great value move; one of the reasons being it gives us the option of signing/trading him if one of our young catchers is ready by '12. Or we could opt to retain Martin, making it more practical to trade from the C depth in the minors.

delv
04-24-11, 11:53 AM
You're right. I left out that he was also a plus baserunner. I mean, he's no Cervelli or anything, but he's still pretty good.

:giveup:

In all seriousness, Martin's best season with the bat (baserunning included) produced an OPS+/wOBA lower than Posada's career average.

Huktonfonix
04-24-11, 11:55 AM
That first sentence at a minimum should read "Posada-lite with elite defense." People forget how good Posada has been offensively.

I think we're on the same side here and this is largely a semantics debate, but I think the "at his peak" qualifier was sufficient. Martin's 2007 season pretty much lines up perfectly with a typical Posada season, outside the stolen bases. Of course, Posada has done that his whole career and Martin's had one full season playing at that level, but given his age it's not crazy to think that if he stays healthy he could have some more Posada-like seasons in him. Maybe not 2003 or 2007 Posada (when he should have won the MVP), but .850 OPS 20 homer seasons.

delv
04-24-11, 12:04 PM
I think we're on the same side here and this is largely a semantics debate, but I think the "at his peak" qualifier was sufficient. Martin's 2007 season pretty much lines up perfectly with a typical Posada season, outside the stolen bases. Of course, Posada has done that his whole career and Martin's had one full season playing at that level, but given his age it's not crazy to think that if he stays healthy he could have some more Posada-like seasons in him. Maybe not 2003 or 2007 Posada (when he should have won the MVP), but .850 OPS 20 homer seasons.

Over A-Rod? :looking: In terms of positional value, yeah, you're probably right, but, when you put up 150+ RBIs, you're usually a lock for MVP. Now that I remember it----man, what a season.

awy
04-24-11, 05:29 PM
well, to be fair, existing positional value may just be the product of systematic bad decisionmaking by baseball orgs. it is a kind of performance luck, if you get my drift.

delv
04-24-11, 05:41 PM
well, to be fair, existing positional value may just be the product of systematic bad decisionmaking by baseball orgs. it is a kind of performance luck, if you get my drift.

doesn't matter, ultimately. positional value is defined by scarcity, not some kind of quality inherent to each position. positional value changes over time.


anyways, I highly doubt that there are a ton of hitting catchers out there that just haven't had a chance. ---As if they're all in Tanzania and they haven't been scouted enough.

awy
04-24-11, 05:43 PM
it matters because current player distribution is to an extent affected by organisational choices.

delv
04-24-11, 05:46 PM
it matters because current player distribution is to an extent affected by organisational choices.

yeah, duh, but what does that have to do with how good Posada was in 2007 compared to his peers in major league baseball?

edit: Babe Ruth wasn't any less valuable in terms of his performance relative to other MLBers because baseball didn't allow blacks to play.

edit: indeed, the term is "most valuable player" not "best ideal guy who might play baseball if orgs were better"

teknetic
04-24-11, 06:15 PM
His defense has surprised me more than anything. I expected him to be good, but he's pretty much a vacuum with balls in the dirt.

His bat could cool off and he'll still be an excellent signing.

awy
04-24-11, 08:00 PM
yeah, duh, but what does that have to do with how good Posada was in 2007 compared to his peers in major league baseball?

edit: Babe Ruth wasn't any less valuable in terms of his performance relative to other MLBers because baseball didn't allow blacks to play.

edit: indeed, the term is "most valuable player" not "best ideal guy who might play baseball if orgs were better"

i was commenting on the reliability of positional value calculations based on existing talent distribution.

delv
04-24-11, 08:23 PM
i was commenting on the reliability of positional value calculations based on existing talent distribution.

oh werd, sure sure. yeah, those are bunk, IMO.

yankee82093
04-24-11, 11:56 PM
oh werd, sure sure. yeah, those are bunk, IMO.

wHYYy

edit: oh, and about your other theory, kind of slipped my mind temporarily, I've been busy lately

Hurling Darvish
04-25-11, 03:27 AM
well, to be fair, existing positional value may just be the product of systematic bad decisionmaking by baseball orgs. it is a kind of performance luck, if you get my drift.

I don't really agree with this. Remember back when Jeter was younger and the AL was loaded with great hitting shortstops (Arod, Jeter, Tejada, Garciaparra)? Is the fact that the shortstop position is so much weaker offensively all around the league now due to bad decision making or performance luck? Orgs can't control the nature of the real talent level available via drafts and IFA signings, just make the most out what they can get. It seems to me that we may be entering a phase of great young catchers, and certainly the 2B position has been much stouter over the last few years due to Cano, Utley, Pedrioa, Kinsler, Roberts, Weeks etc. That's also not due to decision making or luck. These guys are all real good and are playing the positions they should be playing.

BRNXBMRS
04-25-11, 09:05 AM
Beautiful block of the plate yesterday, to prevent the winning run from scoring. What a find for Ca$h.

NY Dude
04-25-11, 01:52 PM
Beautiful block of the plate yesterday, to prevent the winning run from scoring. What a find for Ca$h.

Was he really out there at home? I haven't seen it in slow motion but it always looks like he was in there.

ajra21
04-25-11, 04:07 PM
martin is hot right now and long may it continue. he's bound to slow down and even slump at some stage but he's doing exceptionally well. really don't want him ctahcing 140 plus games however.

GordonGecko
04-25-11, 04:20 PM
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/mlb/2011/04/martin-catching-first-place-yankees-baltimore

"You have to learn the personality and the character of each individual pitcher, and that's one thing he's done so well," said Tony Pena, the Yankees' bench coach and a longtime big league catcher. "People used to say he was lazy and doesn't want to work, but it's been the total opposite with me. He has done everything we've asked him to do, and more."
That tag - lazy - dogged Martin during his final seasons in L.A., and he acknowledges now that some unspecified off-field issues led to a drop in production, which in turn sapped him of his motivation.
"It just wasn't as much fun playing the game," he said. "And when you're not having fun playing, it all snowballs, and you have a hard time motivating yourself to get out there."

Anybody know what issues those could have been?

THEBOSS84
04-25-11, 04:27 PM
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/mlb/2011/04/martin-catching-first-place-yankees-baltimore

Anybody know what issues those could have been?

Nope, and that's not the first mention I've seen of these issues.

awy
04-25-11, 05:30 PM
I don't really agree with this. Remember back when Jeter was younger and the AL was loaded with great hitting shortstops (Arod, Jeter, Tejada, Garciaparra)? Is the fact that the shortstop position is so much weaker offensively all around the league now due to bad decision making or performance luck? Orgs can't control the nature of the real talent level available via drafts and IFA signings, just make the most out what they can get. It seems to me that we may be entering a phase of great young catchers, and certainly the 2B position has been much stouter over the last few years due to Cano, Utley, Pedrioa, Kinsler, Roberts, Weeks etc. That's also not due to decision making or luck. These guys are all real good and are playing the positions they should be playing.
yea, i agree that the talent pipeline isn't consistent over time either, but i think it adds to my point, which i did not make clear. the main objection i have is against position values that are constant across time and organizations. without looking too deeply into how they are calculated, positional values seem to be taken mainly as a measure of different offensive levels among positions across n years of offense data. defense on the other hand is a whole another can of worms. let's just say that if all ml catchers perform actually at a high level of defense, this is to say even competent defense at catching is an ELITE skill, then i just don't know where you would get the data for calculating how much a player being able to play just okay defense at catcher is worth, because the ML guys are not a fair sample when you presumably try to evaluate how much marginal defensive value a catcher contributes within the population of all professional baseball players. furthermore, we are only looking at ml players as though they are randomly generated from nowhere. however, it takes a lot of time to raise a catcher, as opposed to another position. this time certainly has value to teams, but how should it be accounted for in player performance? would a guy who plays multiple positions be correctly assigned value for those skillsets? this problem become evident when we ask, what the player would have produced had he been in this or that era, or how much would he do on another team, playing a higher defensive position that was blocked by another guy on his old team.

anyway,

the particular factor i identified is basically resting on an assumption that organizations previously chose players' positions while they are still in the minors without a well thought out idea of how much value is in defense, so their judgments which do affect how players play out their careers are not the fault or credit of the players. they go by 'how good a guy looks' and/or make ad-hoc decisions based on random events like, "this guy messed up today and looked really bad let's' try him out at 1b instead". this obviously goes beyond simple positional value, it may affect our judgment of how good a pitcher is etc if those judgments are resting only on existing performance.

is it fair to accord a player full credit or discredit of where he's playing, or perhaps the question better asked, is a measurement that credits the player with the entirety of their positional value/disvalue a fair indication of how good that player is? i think it's a live question.

Eldee5
05-04-11, 03:29 PM
Many Yankees' fans may be frustrated with Derek Jeter's caliber of play this season but apparently some of his teammates, including one of the newest, see things a little differently:
http://www.myyesnetwork.com/16288/blog/2011/05/03/tales_from_the_start_of_a_road_trip

Under his uniform, Russell Martin often wears a shirt that bears a picture of Derek Jeter in uniform. It’s a large image, covering the entire front of the shirt, which is skin-tight and appears to be made of some sort of dri fit material.

He was wearing the shirt Monday night and we asked why. (We had to.)

“’Cause it’s got a lot of hits in it,” Martin said. “There are lots of hits in that shirt.”

Martin said Nick Swisher was wearing an identical shirt during Spring Training.

“There was one more in the back,” Martin said, “so I grabbed it.”

awy
05-04-11, 03:36 PM
wat? is that for rael

flymick24
05-04-11, 03:41 PM
Nope, and that's not the first mention I've seen of these issues.

he liked the night life and would often show up to games hung over

Eldee5
05-04-11, 04:00 PM
Martin's not in tonights lineup. Getting a night off. Cervelli starting.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/05/04/martin-gets-a-day-off/

pleasepassthesoup
05-04-11, 04:56 PM
Martin's not in tonights lineup. Getting a night off. Cervelli starting.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/05/04/martin-gets-a-day-off/

What a slacker.

TheInfallibleOne
05-06-11, 01:17 AM
I think this man has had a remarkable impact on our pitching staff. Rothschild too. Makes me wonder if Posada was partially to blame the last few years. Martin seems to work very well with AJ.

I just hate when he gets the day off because Cervelli is probably the most useless player on the team. A warm body to spell Martin every few days. Perhaps getting rid of him and letting Jorge play backup catcher would be more advantageous.

grizy
05-06-11, 01:35 AM
AJ said Martin's the one that convinced him to throw the changeup.

ieddyi
05-07-11, 10:37 AM
AJ said Martin's the one that convinced him to throw the changeup.


After the first few games, he's hardly throwing any though....

grizy
05-07-11, 11:31 AM
After the first few games, he's hardly throwing any though....

He's throwing it less but still plenty at ~7%, close to double his career rate. AJ in his last three starts:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6856/4618332011040120110415a.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/4618332011040120110415a.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Pitchfx struggles to find his changeups because the speed differential isn't that big and it moves just like his sinker but if you plot it, the differential is more than big enough for the naked eye to see.

Honestly his changeup, due to relatively small differential, works a lot off the natural tailing and sinking action that his two seamers and circle change (judging by the way it moves, I am pretty sure he throws circle change). In terms of speed differential and command, it's average at best. With that kind of profile, it really shouldn't be used more than 10~15% of the time or so. More than that hitters will sit on it and slam it out of the park.

It's why he never trusted it to begin with. But at this point in his career, he just needs to let it go and let the chips fall.

yankee82093
05-07-11, 04:52 PM
He's throwing it less but still plenty at ~7%, close to double his career rate. AJ in his last three starts:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6856/4618332011040120110415a.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/4618332011040120110415a.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Pitchfx struggles to find his changeups because the speed differential isn't that big and it moves just like his sinker but if you plot it, the differential is more than big enough for the naked eye to see.

Honestly his changeup, due to relatively small differential, works a lot off the natural tailing and sinking action that his two seamers and circle change (judging by the way it moves, I am pretty sure he throws circle change). In terms of speed differential and command, it's average at best. With that kind of profile, it really shouldn't be used more than 10~15% of the time or so. More than that hitters will sit on it and slam it out of the park.

It's why he never trusted it to begin with. But at this point in his career, he just needs to let it go and let the chips fall.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that all of those pitches that you circled are changeups. There's obviously more to pitch classification than just spin angle and velocity.

ace
05-07-11, 05:32 PM
Cervelli is probably the most useless player on the team.

Seconded.

Gustavo Molina in limited innings showed me he's a way better BUC. Can't hit, but had a strong and somewhat accurate arm. Cervelli is the worst Yankee catcher I can remember.

grizy
05-07-11, 05:38 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to say that all of those pitches that you circled are changeups. There's obviously more to pitch classification than just spin angle and velocity.

Not all, but enough to make a pretty big difference in %s.

Tommy1961
05-08-11, 07:47 PM
Sometimes it best to just do nothing. Thanks for taking the day off hope it rubs off on Posada

rpbri2886
05-08-11, 08:40 PM
Seconded.

Gustavo Molina in limited innings showed me he's a way better BUC. Can't hit, but had a strong and somewhat accurate arm. Cervelli is the worst Yankee catcher I can remember.

Wil Nieves.

Yankee Tripper
05-12-11, 12:12 PM
public service bump

gold23
05-12-11, 02:50 PM
He's a very rigid hitter. Anything hard over the outer half of the plate he is generally going to roll over on. Can reach it and hit sharply from time to time, but I'd stay outside on him. I don't have tremendous confidence he'll be a plus offensive catcher this season, but I do think he'll be serviceable with the bat and he's a very solid defender.

As for the Cervelli hate....why? He didn't have a great defensive season last year and he got worn down at the plate. But prior he was solid defensively and he's been solid this season there too. Additionally, he's not a 0 with the bat...in fact, if you run down all of the backup catchers in MLB, he's probably one of the most two-dimentional of them all.

Eldee5
05-12-11, 05:10 PM
Interesting choice of off season workout plan for Russell Martin; one that has seemed to work very well for him.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110512&content_id=18975820&oid=36019&vkey=4

Martin revitalized by Mixed Martial Arts
Rigorous offseason training regimen has Yanks' catcher in best shape of his career

Martin was playing for long-term stability elsewhere. He needed -- wanted -- an edge, so he turned to a friend, veteran kickboxer Gabriel Rossi who competed in Thailand for five years, for a recommendation on where to train in Mixed Martial Arts.

An East York native who grew up in Chelsea, Que., and living in Montreal, Martin is aware that fellow countryman Georges St. Pierre is arguably the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world. St. Pierre is a protégé of Jonathan Chaimberg's Adrenaline Performance Center located in Martin's neighborhood. Heavier than usual thanks to being bound to crutches, Martin and Rossi visited Chaimberg's facility for a trial run and loved the routine.

He was off a down season, but Martin remained optimistic and burned deeply to prove people wrong. The first thing he had to do was simply get back in shape.

"You get there, you do warmup and then the workout is an intense circuit training type of thing," Martin said. "I needed to get my cardio back because I was a little overweight from the injury. Being on crutches for so long it was hard to do anything else."

Gegbot
05-12-11, 08:03 PM
Interesting choice of off season workout plan for Russell Martin; one that has seemed to work very well for him.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110512&content_id=18975820&oid=36019&vkey=4

Thanks for the link, I always enjoy reading about players doing unorthodox things that turn out really well for them. He's really been outstanding behind the plate and I keep hearing about how well liked he is among the pitchers and how he's established trust with them.

For my sake, I hope he gets some hits against the Red Sox just to avoid having to see the negativity come to this thread. :P

wexy
05-13-11, 02:16 PM
Nice ESPN story today


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6535882

awy
05-13-11, 09:06 PM
why so good.

steveo_88
05-25-11, 07:04 AM
Another great all round night for Martin. If he keeps up his current form is their any realistic way Cervelli can get back the number one catchers slot(without Russell being injured)?

JDPNYY
05-25-11, 07:54 AM
It's absurd that the Yankees took the starting catching job away from Cervelli. It certainly isn't fair to him. I don't even think Martin is American or anything. I heard that guy is from the Canada. They let Cervelli play and he hits a grand slam. Martin only hits those solo shots. Plus Cervelli shows way more pep and team spirit.

I don't mind Martin as the back up. What is Girardi thinking anyway. I hope Randy Levine steps in and soon.

Petey
05-25-11, 08:29 AM
It's absurd that the Yankees took the starting catching job away from Cervelli. It certainly isn't fair to him. I don't even think Martin is American or anything. I heard that guy is from the Canada. They let Cervelli play and he hits a grand slam. Martin only hits those solo shots. Plus Cervelli shows way more pep and team spirit.

I don't mind Martin as the back up. What is Girardi thinking anyway. I hope Randy Levine steps in and soon.
I hear they call it, "Canadia".

JL25and3
05-25-11, 08:58 AM
It's absurd that the Yankees took the starting catching job away from Cervelli. It certainly isn't fair to him. I don't even think Martin is American or anything. I heard that guy is from the Canada. They let Cervelli play and he hits a grand slam. Martin only hits those solo shots. Plus Cervelli shows way more pep and team spirit.

I don't mind Martin as the back up. What is Girardi thinking anyway. I hope Randy Levine steps in and soon.
So what? All of JDPNYY's trivial and irrelevant arguments are easily trumped by one simple fact: Russell Martin's middle name is Coltrane.

JOBA RULES
05-25-11, 09:44 AM
Another great all round night for Martin. If he keeps up his current form is their any realistic way Cervelli can get back the number one catchers slot(without Russell being injured)?

I think you can answer that....

If Cervelli is our starting catcher the Yankees are in deep deep doo doo....Cervelli isn't good.

JDPNYY
05-25-11, 09:52 AM
I think you can answer that....

If Cervelli is out starting catcher the Yankees are in deep deep doo doo....Cervelli isn't good.

Apparently you missed the grandest of slams.

False1
05-25-11, 10:27 AM
It's absurd that the Yankees took the starting catching job away from Cervelli. It certainly isn't fair to him. I don't even think Martin is American or anything. I heard that guy is from the Canada. They let Cervelli play and he hits a grand slam. Martin only hits those solo shots. Plus Cervelli shows way more pep and team spirit.

I don't mind Martin as the back up. What is Girardi thinking anyway. I hope Randy Levine steps in and soon.Really the only thing more frustrating is how Mo gives away games when he's asked to take the ball in non-save situations.

TheYankee
05-25-11, 10:29 AM
Another great all round night for Martin. If he keeps up his current form is their any realistic way Cervelli can get back the number one catchers slot(without Russell being injured)?

What the what?

When has Cervelli EVER been the "number one catcher" and who thinks he ever will be?

I want to make a funny joke here... but... John took care of it.

JDPNYY
05-25-11, 10:41 AM
To be fair... If I remember correctly, Steveo is just learning the game being over in the UK and all, so he may not realize that RMart is by far the superior player.

So, Steveo, Cervelli is merely the back up and will probably never be a number one catcher for any team. As a backup, he is adequate.

JOBA RULES
05-25-11, 10:42 AM
To be fair... If I remember correctly, Steveo is just learning the game being over in the UK and all, so he may not realize that RMart is by far the superior player.

So, Steveo, Cervelli is merely the back up and will probably never be a number one catcher for any team. As a backup, he is adequate.
Ohh...My apologies, I didn't realize.

TheYankee
05-25-11, 10:48 AM
To be fair... If I remember correctly, Steveo is just learning the game being over in the UK and all, so he may not realize that RMart is by far the superior player.

So, Steveo, Cervelli is merely the back up and will probably never be a number one catcher for any team. As a backup, he is adequate.

Aye, tis' a simple matter of misunderstanding across the pond then, ol' boy? Phew!

Yankeesfan811
05-25-11, 12:09 PM
honestly Martin and Granderson are keeping me from being furious this season.

we are in first i know....but only 5 games above .500 right now.

JOBA RULES
05-25-11, 12:10 PM
honestly Martin and Granderson are keeping me from being furious this season.

we are in first i know....but only 5 games above .500 right now.

Still can't believe we are in first after this 3 week stretch.

Getting our butts handed to us by KC and Boston at home killed me.

steveo_88
05-25-11, 12:29 PM
Ohh...My apologies, I didn't realize.


Aye, tis' a simple matter of misunderstanding across the pond then, ol' boy? Phew!

I was just trying to figure out if Cervelli was the number one last year and had been ousted. I only started following the Yankees this year so have no reference to compare new players with old ones. I know Jeter and A-Rod are good but I haven't seen them play much outside this year. During ST I doubled the amount of baseball games I'd watched in my lifetime!

Yankee Fan in Boston
05-25-11, 12:30 PM
honestly Martin and Granderson are keeping me from being furious this season.

we are in first i know....but only 5 games above .500 right now.

And on pace for about 90 wins.

GordonGecko
05-25-11, 02:33 PM
2 walks in 2 PA with 1 run and a runner thrown out. Productive afternoon so far

sweet_lou_14
05-25-11, 11:16 PM
I was just trying to figure out if Cervelli was the number one last year and had been ousted. I only started following the Yankees this year so have no reference to compare new players with old ones. I know Jeter and A-Rod are good but I haven't seen them play much outside this year. During ST I doubled the amount of baseball games I'd watched in my lifetime!

The Yankees' number one catcher last year was Jorge Posada, who has been shifted to DH duties this year.

If you want to look up just about anything about any team or player in MLB, you should definitely check out www.baseball-reference.com ... it's a treasure trove of information.

35Knucklecurve
05-26-11, 09:03 AM
Still can't believe we are in first after this 3 week stretch.

Getting our butts handed to us by KC and Boston at home killed me.
It almost looks like nobody wants to win the AL East this year. Everybody's had 5-6 game losing streaks and more than one 3 game streak. I thought that by now, this team would be hitting on most cylinders, but on the other hand, even with the less than great performance so far, they're still at the top. MLB wanted parity.....they've got it.:P

Yankee Tripper
05-26-11, 11:05 AM
I was just trying to figure out if Cervelli was the number one last year and had been ousted. I only started following the Yankees this year so have no reference to compare new players with old ones. I know Jeter and A-Rod are good but I haven't seen them play much outside this year. During ST I doubled the amount of baseball games I'd watched in my lifetime!
welcome to the wonderful world of baseball :gulp:

Yankee Fan in Boston
05-26-11, 11:12 AM
It almost looks like nobody wants to win the AL East this year. Everybody's had 5-6 game losing streaks and more than one 3 game streak. I thought that by now, this team would be hitting on most cylinders, but on the other hand, even with the less than great performance so far, they're still at the top. MLB wanted parity.....they've got it.:P

Keep in mind that the 3 top teams are on pace for between 86 and 91 wins, and currently rank 2, 3 and 4 in the AL. While all have had their struggles, overall they are all doing pretty well. The AL East is still the toughest division in the league.

ieddyi
05-26-11, 01:51 PM
Keep in mind that the 3 top teams are on pace for between 86 and 91 wins, and currently rank 2, 3 and 4 in the AL. While all have had their struggles, overall they are all doing pretty well. The AL East is still the toughest division in the league.

And the road gets tougher for the Yanks now:

"The nine-game West Coast swing that begins tonight will undoubtedly be the toughest stretch of baseball for the Yankees to date this season, and possibly all year. Why? Check this out…
May 27: Michael Pineda
May 28: Felix Hernandez
May 29: Jason Vargas
May 30: Trevor Cahill
May 31: Brett Anderson
June 1: Gio Gonzalez
June 2: OFF
June 3: Jered Weaver
June 4: Dan Haren
June 5: Ervin Santana
Those are the starting pitchers the Yankees are (tentatively) going to face on this trip. The worst of the bunch has been Vargas, who has a 3.69 FIP and has gone 7+ IP with no more than one run allowed in three of his last four starts. His performance in 2011 is on par with guys like Ricky Romero and Matt Cain, for perspective. It’s like the Mariners, Athletics, and Angels all conspired to line up their best starters for this trip just to make life miserable for New York.
Because those nine games aren’t tough enough, the Yankees will come home from the road trip, take a day off, then play three straight series (nine games in nine days) against the Red Sox, Indians, and Rangers. Those three clubs are a combined 83-63 with a +91 run differential to date, though with any luck the Tribe will have cooled off by the time they come to town. Even if they do, it’s still obvious that these next 18 games are going to be absolute hell for New York."

RAB

Yankee Tripper
05-26-11, 01:56 PM
May 30: Trevor Cahill
May 31: Brett Anderson
June 1: Gio Gonzalez

:lol: The A's have 3 of their top 6 SP on the DL and we still draw their top 3 starters.

NewEraYanks2527
05-26-11, 02:03 PM
And the road gets tougher for the Yanks now:

"The nine-game West Coast swing that begins tonight will undoubtedly be the toughest stretch of baseball for the Yankees to date this season, and possibly all year. Why? Check this out…
May 27: Michael Pineda
May 28: Felix Hernandez
May 29: Jason Vargas
May 30: Trevor Cahill
May 31: Brett Anderson
June 1: Gio Gonzalez
June 2: OFF
June 3: Jered Weaver
June 4: Dan Haren
June 5: Ervin Santana
Those are the starting pitchers the Yankees are (tentatively) going to face on this trip. The worst of the bunch has been Vargas, who has a 3.69 FIP and has gone 7+ IP with no more than one run allowed in three of his last four starts. His performance in 2011 is on par with guys like Ricky Romero and Matt Cain, for perspective. It’s like the Mariners, Athletics, and Angels all conspired to line up their best starters for this trip just to make life miserable for New York.
Because those nine games aren’t tough enough, the Yankees will come home from the road trip, take a day off, then play three straight series (nine games in nine days) against the Red Sox, Indians, and Rangers. Those three clubs are a combined 83-63 with a +91 run differential to date, though with any luck the Tribe will have cooled off by the time they come to town. Even if they do, it’s still obvious that these next 18 games are going to be absolute hell for New York."

RAB

Well I guess it's just time to nut up or shut up.

Yankee Fan in Boston
05-26-11, 02:32 PM
And the road gets tougher for the Yanks now:

"The nine-game West Coast swing that begins tonight will undoubtedly be the toughest stretch of baseball for the Yankees to date this season, and possibly all year. Why? Check this out…
May 27: Michael Pineda
May 28: Felix Hernandez
May 29: Jason Vargas
May 30: Trevor Cahill
May 31: Brett Anderson
June 1: Gio Gonzalez
June 2: OFF
June 3: Jered Weaver
June 4: Dan Haren
June 5: Ervin Santana
Those are the starting pitchers the Yankees are (tentatively) going to face on this trip. The worst of the bunch has been Vargas, who has a 3.69 FIP and has gone 7+ IP with no more than one run allowed in three of his last four starts. His performance in 2011 is on par with guys like Ricky Romero and Matt Cain, for perspective. It’s like the Mariners, Athletics, and Angels all conspired to line up their best starters for this trip just to make life miserable for New York.
Because those nine games aren’t tough enough, the Yankees will come home from the road trip, take a day off, then play three straight series (nine games in nine days) against the Red Sox, Indians, and Rangers. Those three clubs are a combined 83-63 with a +91 run differential to date, though with any luck the Tribe will have cooled off by the time they come to town. Even if they do, it’s still obvious that these next 18 games are going to be absolute hell for New York."

RAB

funny thing is, despite how fabulous those West coast pitching staffs are, those teams are barely above or under .500. Part of that is because, in addition to not allowing runs, they don't score either (except for Texas). The Yankee staff should look pretty good on this trip also.

grizy
05-26-11, 02:55 PM
The ALEast arguably has 4 of the 5 best MLB teams right now.

Even if you can't agree with that, there is no doubt in my mind all 4 of these teams are within the top 10 in all of MLB.

Among the 4, Jays have the least depth since Jose Bautista provides like 30% (or more) of that teams overall production. But still, if Jose Bautista stays healthy and hot, the Jays have a pretty solid shot at coming out of the ALEast with a wildcard.

teknetic
05-26-11, 03:00 PM
They just recently faced Laptop, Beckett, Lester, Price, Shields, and Britton.

groovitude
05-26-11, 03:36 PM
The Yankees' number one catcher last year was Jorge Posada, who has been shifted to DH duties this year.

If you want to look up just about anything about any team or player in MLB, you should definitely check out www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com) ... it's a treasure trove of information.If he looked up last year's Yankees on B-R (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2010.shtml), he'd see that the starting catcher was Cervelli.

I don't blame him for the confusion at all.

sweet_lou_14
05-27-11, 09:27 AM
If he looked up last year's Yankees on B-R (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2010.shtml), he'd see that the starting catcher was Cervelli.

I don't blame him for the confusion at all.

Just checked and you are right ... but clearly B-R has it wrong on this one. Even just going by games played.

JOBA RULES
05-27-11, 09:48 AM
They just recently faced Laptop, Beckett, Lester, Price, Shields, and Britton.

and walked away with 2 wins....

Although they knocked around Price...Thanks AJ.

BRNXBMRS
06-02-11, 10:35 AM
At catcher, Russell Martin has regained his cred along with his game. A two-time All-Star with the Dodgers, including the NL's starter in 2007, Martin (843,459) has a lead of a quarter-million votes over three-time starter Joe Mauer, who hasn't played since mid-April due to weakness in his legs.


What a signing by Cash

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110530&content_id=19787172&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

teknetic
06-02-11, 11:18 AM
At first base, Mark Teixeira (827,247 votes) has a 142,000-vote lead over Gonzalez, who as a San Diego Padre was the NL's starter in each of the last three Midsummer Classics. Furthermore, Boston's new first sacker is crowded by Detroit's Miguel Cabrera, the 2010 starter who is only 7,000 votes behind.

My memory is foggy, did Pujols really not get the start three years in a row? I'm guessing he might have been there a DH, but eh.

e: how the hell does Sam Fuld have 300,000 votes :lol:

aeromac76
06-02-11, 01:55 PM
Well I guess it's just time to nut up or shut up.

4-2 so far, after an 0-2 start.
not bad..

Jax Teller
06-02-11, 01:57 PM
The dude's got 6 stolen bases on the year as well, hasn't been caught yet.

just-blaze
06-02-11, 10:49 PM
4-2 so far, after an 0-2 start.
not bad..

Not to mention we got unlucky in the first game coupled with questionable moves and lost an extra innings game against King Felix.

Yankeesfan811
06-15-11, 03:59 PM
Someone mentioned that it was dumb not to DL him, and that we have wasted these days.

It's possible to dl him retroactively isn't it? what are the requirements for that?

At this point, something has to be done.....call up Montero, or even Molina. I can't take much more of Cervelli.

Eldee5
06-15-11, 04:29 PM
Someone mentioned that it was dumb not to DL him, and that we have wasted these days.

It's possible to dl him retroactively isn't it? what are the requirements for that?

At this point, something has to be done.....call up Montero, or even Molina. I can't take much more of Cervelli.
While he can be DL'd retroactively, the flaw in the plan is that he played on Sunday so he can only be DL'd to that point. Had he not played then he could have been DL'd retroactively to 6/7, which was the last time he had played prior to Sunday. He really shouldn't have played on Sunday.

Yankeesfan811
06-16-11, 11:56 AM
While he can be DL'd retroactively, the flaw in the plan is that he played on Sunday so he can only be DL'd to that point. Had he not played then he could have been DL'd retroactively to 6/7, which was the last time he had played prior to Sunday. He really shouldn't have played on Sunday.

right right. thanks.

yeah, that was dumb to play him Sunday.

just-blaze
06-18-11, 07:32 PM
What? No love for the tag.

That sir was gangsta.

PirateChief
06-18-11, 07:54 PM
Love this guy

theDurk
06-18-11, 09:09 PM
What? No love for the tag.

That sir was gangsta.

This...plus snagging AJ's wildness kept probably three or four runs from scoring. He was a wall (except for the one that hit the ump.)

teknetic
06-18-11, 09:31 PM
Yea, surprised at how excellent he is defensively. Those were some serious blocking skills.

groovitude
06-18-11, 10:45 PM
Stopping Peña at the plate: Impressive defense.
Showing Peña the ball: Impressive swagger.

ajra21
06-19-11, 06:58 AM
Yea, surprised at how excellent he is defensively. Those were some serious blocking skills.

i expected this kind of D from him - some catchers can actually defend.

Eldee5
06-19-11, 11:49 AM
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/06/18/postgame-notes-you-dont-necessarily-help-them-up/

Bowled over and knocked to the ground, Russell Martin picked himself off the dirt and turned toward two men. He was showing one of them his glove, and more importantly, the ball still securely tucked inside it. But was he showing it to Carlos Pena or home plate umpire Sam Holbrook?

“I was showing it to Pena,” Martin said. “That’s just the feistiness in me.”
...
“That was a clean hit,” Martin said. “There wasn’t anything dirty. As a catcher, you have to know when to put your body in position and when not to… Yesterday, I told Swisher, ‘I’m getting bored back there. I haven’t had a play in a long time.’ I got what I asked for.”
You gotta love this guy!

Blazer
06-19-11, 05:25 PM
i expected this kind of D from him - some catchers can actually defend.

Yes, we haven't had a natural C in a long, long time.

35Knucklecurve
06-20-11, 08:36 AM
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/06/18/postgame-notes-you-dont-necessarily-help-them-up/

You gotta love this guy!
I can't find it now, but Martin later said that he and Pena complimented each other on the play. Martin told him something like, "That was some hit. You really got me good." Pena's response was, "You held on to it."

Refreshing, yes? :lol:

JOBA RULES
06-20-11, 09:34 AM
I wish they had a pic of Russell showing Pena the ball....I can't find it anywhere

NoodleRay
06-20-11, 11:36 AM
I think that most of us are shocked at how good this kid is, I know I am. This just goes to show what we've been missing from our defense, now we all see what a difference a very talented catcher can make.

We are without a doubt a different team with Martin behind the plate, this young man is what we needed and he makes a huge impact.

Yankee Tripper
06-20-11, 11:44 AM
I think that most of us are shocked at how good this kid is, I know I am...
...I'm not sure why. He's a former gold glove winner a 2 time all-star and has consistantly thrown out over 30% of would be base staelers in his career.

There was a question about whether or not his offense would rebound or not and if he'd be healthy but defensively I wasn't aware of any question marks coming in.

Gegbot
06-20-11, 11:44 AM
I wish they had a pic of Russell showing Pena the ball....I can't find it anywhere

Will video do?


http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=16034151&query=game_pk%3D287970

NoodleRay
06-20-11, 11:57 AM
...I'm not sure why. He's a former gold glove winner a 2 time all-star and has consistantly thrown out over 30% of would be base staelers in his career.

There was a question about whether or not his offense would rebound or not and if he'd be healthy but defensively I wasn't aware of any question marks coming in.

Jorge has always been a good hitter with great power, but the shocking thing about Martin is seeing and having his gold glove on our side. I guess that I'm just not used to seeing this kind of talent behind the plate for us.

Also seeing what a difference his defense makes, I'm impressed.

Yankee Tripper
06-20-11, 12:06 PM
Jorge has always been a good hitter with great power, but the shocking thing about Martin is seeing and having his gold glove on our side. I guess that I'm just not used to seeing this kind of talent behind the plate for us.

Also seeing what a difference his defense makes, I'm impressed.
Yeah it has been quite some time since the Yanks had an everyday catcher who is good behind the plate (Munson or maybe Cerone is the last I recall). Posada has years where he was adaquate but he was never what you might call good behind the plate. It was his 120 OPS+ that we all loved not his ability to play great defense. And Posada was never one to block the plate, which was probably smart on his part since his value came from offense.

sweet_lou_14
06-20-11, 01:58 PM
Will video do?


http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=16034151&query=game_pk%3D287970

The frothy mixture of pure apathy and deep depression in Joe Buck's delivery whenever anything good happens for the Yankees is a thing to behold.

35Knucklecurve
06-21-11, 09:29 AM
The frothy mixture of pure apathy and deep depression in Joe Buck's delivery whenever anything good happens for the Yankees is a thing to behold.
Don't I know it - you can hear the disappointment in his voice everytime NY gets a hit. On the plus side, I don't have to be in the same room with the TV to know what happened. :lol:

I still think his call of the last out in the 2009 WS was an embarrassment. He probably woke up when the crowd erupted and shook his sorry ass out of the chair.

Martin did a great job last night working with Nova. They seemed to be on the same page the entire game.

groovitude
06-21-11, 11:26 AM
Don't I know it - you can hear the disappointment in his voice everytime NY gets a hit. On the plus side, I don't have to be in the same room with the TV to know what happened. :lol:

I still think his call of the last out in the 2009 WS was an embarrassment. He probably woke up when the crowd erupted and shook his sorry ass out of the chair.

Martin did a great job last night working with Nova. They seemed to be on the same page the entire game.Nova never shook him off:


One advantage to having a former National League catcher behind the plate for an interleague series: “When I got here, the first thing I asked (Martin) was, ‘Do you know the hitters well?’” Nova said. “He said yes, so I didn’t shake any time. I trust my catcher, so whatever the sign was, I just threw it.”http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/06/20/postgame-notes-it-looked-like-a-piece-of-cake-for-him/

GordonGecko
06-22-11, 08:55 PM
POP - get off the bases.

SLURPEE
06-27-11, 10:10 AM
Hitting .190 since May 1st.

JOBA RULES
06-27-11, 10:19 AM
I've liked his defense but his bat as gone as cold as ice.

Michael Dorbuck
06-27-11, 01:11 PM
I've liked his defense but his bat as gone as cold as ice.

I agree. .190 since May 1 is quite bad. This is almost a two month stretch. Possibly the back issue which caused him to miss some games has something to do with this slide. I knew he couldn't keep up the pace he had in April when he was one of the best hitters on the team. Nor is he as bad as he has been during May and June. The real Russell Martin is somewhere in between I think. We have to hope he turns it around somewhat the second half of the season. But with his defense remaining solid and others in the lineup like Swisher and Posada really picking it up, Martin's lack of offense is not really a major issue at this time.

Petey
06-27-11, 04:15 PM
Russell Martin's 2011 BABIP: .237
Martin's career BABIP: .297

Russell Martin's 2011 GB%: 41.6%
Martin's career GB%: 49.2%

His LD% is right around his career average. I'd chalk this up to a case of good ol', bad luck. I don't have those splits for pre and post back injury, but I'd expect an eventual uptick.

SatchelPaigeYankee
06-27-11, 06:40 PM
Russell Martin's 2011 BABIP: .237
Martin's career BABIP: .297

Russell Martin's 2011 GB%: 41.6%
Martin's career GB%: 49.2%

His LD% is right around his career average. I'd chalk this up to a case of good ol', bad luck. I don't have those splits for pre and post back injury, but I'd expect an eventual uptick.

Comparing his batted ball profiles when from being a Dodger and from being a Yankee is a bad idea. Batted ball data shows HEAVY park bias.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-i-hate-about-line-drives/


n Arlington, a batter is 18% more likely to have a batted ball coded as a LD, which may have helped Milton Bradley to have the 2nd highest LD rate in 2008 – while in Minneapolis, it’s 20% less likely. Four of the lowest six LD rates belong to Michael Bourn, Geoff Blum, Ty Wigginton and Hunter Pence, and Minute Maid Park has the second lowest LD park factor at 0.82. This is not saying that Houston batters hit fewer line drives – it’s that Houston and it opponents both have 18% fewer balls scored as liners in Houston than they do on the road.


where the scorers are seated has a huge effect on whether they call certain hits LDs or FBs. As you might expect, the higher up to you are, the more everything looks like a linedrive, and the lower you are, the more that many hits look like flyballs.

Blazer
06-27-11, 10:06 PM
Comparing his batted ball profiles when from being a Dodger and from being a Yankee is a bad idea. Batted ball data shows HEAVY park bias.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-i-hate-about-line-drives/




where the scorers are seated has a huge effect on whether they call certain hits LDs or FBs. As you might expect, the higher up to you are, the more everything looks like a linedrive, and the lower you are, the more that many hits look like flyballs.

Very interesting post. However, aren't teams using Hit F/X already?

Petey
06-28-11, 03:47 PM
Comparing his batted ball profiles when from being a Dodger and from being a Yankee is a bad idea. Batted ball data shows HEAVY park bias.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-i-hate-about-line-drives/




where the scorers are seated has a huge effect on whether they call certain hits LDs or FBs. As you might expect, the higher up to you are, the more everything looks like a linedrive, and the lower you are, the more that many hits look like flyballs.
I never thought of that stuff. Thanks for pointing that out.

HerbieLee20
06-28-11, 07:40 PM
If it was the 10th inning, down by a run, he gets that hit (re:his at bat in the 1st tonight.) I find myself always thinking this when he's at bat. Anyone else agree?

If there was a stat for clutch in the highest-pressure situations, I'd like to see Russell's.

False1
06-28-11, 07:45 PM
If it was the 10th inning, down by a run, he gets that hit (re:his at bat in the 1st tonight.) I find myself always thinking this when he's at bat. Anyone else agree?

If there was a stat for clutch in the highest-pressure situations, I'd like to see Russell's.According to b-ref.com, he hasn't been good in high leverage situations on the whole this year. He had some very big hits early, but has just gone cold in general lately.

HerbieLee20
06-28-11, 07:49 PM
Ahhh, thanks for the scoop, False1.

He's mighty due then. :)

Spydog
06-29-11, 03:27 AM
Russell Martin's 2011 BABIP: .237
Martin's career BABIP: .297

Russell Martin's 2011 GB%: 41.6%
Martin's career GB%: 49.2%

His LD% is right around his career average. I'd chalk this up to a case of good ol', bad luck. I don't have those splits for pre and post back injury, but I'd expect an eventual uptick.

He has been unlucky. One of the unluckiest this year:

http://www.rotochamp.com/baseball/2011HitterAnalysis.aspx

Mark19
07-02-11, 03:55 PM
If you'd have told me in April that Martin would put up a line of .240/.350/.400 with maybe 18 HRs, 10 SBs and strong defense, I would have absolutely signed up for that. It is just a shame that most of his production occurred in the first month of the season.

Gigi Buffon
07-04-11, 09:15 AM
Gardner's getting a lot of (well deserved) credit for throwing out Duda in the 9th after Pena's error but it was also a helluva tag by Martin.

teknetic
07-06-11, 10:29 PM
.502 OPS in his last 40 games. Dude is gonna be on the All-Star team with a sub .200BA and OPS under .700 :lol:

b-ball-lunachick
07-18-11, 11:14 PM
The porn stache revival. :D

TheDozen
07-18-11, 11:29 PM
The porn stache revival. :D

Glad to see Martin make the difference in a hard-fought game tonight.

GordonGecko
07-18-11, 11:37 PM
Glad to see Martin make the difference in a hard-fought game tonight.

That lift of Robbie must've fixed up his back good & proper ;)

Yankees13
07-18-11, 11:39 PM
Nice AB in the 9th.

Michael Dorbuck
07-19-11, 12:04 AM
Nice AB in the 9th.

The walk got the winning run in. The Yankees kind of lucked out to win this one considering the failures tonight of Jeter, Tex and Cano in the clutch.

BRNXBMRS
07-20-11, 08:33 AM
Soo close, just got under it.

SLURPEE
07-20-11, 08:41 AM
His bat sucks.

Kingofkings19
07-20-11, 10:22 AM
His bat sucks.

It definitely has cooled off hasn't it. He looked like an all world offensive catcher back in April and May. He does handle the staff well which is a good thing.

GordonGecko
07-20-11, 10:23 AM
Martin will pick it up again, he's had some back issues. He has the potential to be a clutch postseason guy

THEBOSS84
07-20-11, 10:31 AM
Just thought I'd point this out -

Salty - .771 OPS, 109 OPS+
Martin - .695 OPS, 89 OPS+

SLURPEE
07-20-11, 10:33 AM
So we have a BUC playing everyday?

Michael Dorbuck
07-20-11, 10:35 AM
Martin will pick it up again, he's had some back issues. He has the potential to be a clutch postseason guy

He is a complete black hole in the lineup right now. I knew he was hitting way over his head in April but he is now into his third month in a row of doing almost nothing offensively. So how much can we realistically expect him to improve? The only good thing I guess is he can't really get much worse than he has been over the last three months.

awy
07-20-11, 12:32 PM
if he has a health problem then mebbe rest him? like, seriously?

teknetic
07-20-11, 12:58 PM
Just thought I'd point this out -

Salty - .771 OPS, 109 OPS+
Martin - .695 OPS, 89 OPS+

A platoon would be nice (he's obviously not built for catching 130+ games a year). If they only had a catcher in the minors who might be able to fill in for a few days.


So we have a BUC playing everyday?

His OPS the last three months is well short of Jose Molina's career mark.

Petey
07-20-11, 01:21 PM
A platoon would be nice (he's obviously not built for catching 130+ games a year). If they only had a catcher in the minors who might be able to fill in for a few days.



His OPS the last three months is well short of Jose Molina's career mark.
I know. Leave it to the Yankees to have absolutely no catching depth in the minors. INCONCEIVABLE!

stapequest
07-20-11, 09:02 PM
It's amazing that he's been allowed to be basically horrible since the middle of april and the yankees don't even think about bringing Montero up at a time when the lineup is killing them nightly with martin being a huge reason why.

Michael Dorbuck
07-20-11, 09:13 PM
It's amazing that he's been allowed to be basically horrible since the middle of april and the yankees don't even think about bringing Montero up at a time when the lineup is killing them nightly with martin being a huge reason why.

Martin batting sixth tonight tells you all you need to know about the current state of the Yankees lineup.

roblyo33
07-21-11, 04:09 PM
Rumor has it that his 'stache is gone.

justtxyank
07-21-11, 04:11 PM
It's amazing that he's been allowed to be basically horrible since the middle of april and the yankees don't even think about bringing Montero up at a time when the lineup is killing them nightly with martin being a huge reason why.

It's not amazing when you consider that the team wants their catcher to actually catch. If they could let Martin play D and then Montero hit for him they'd call him up. Since baseball doesn't allow that they don't really have an option.

SLURPEE
07-21-11, 05:42 PM
It's amazing that he's been allowed to be basically horrible since the middle of april and the yankees don't even think about bringing Montero up at a time when the lineup is killing them nightly with martin being a huge reason why.


because he's trade bait.


My guess is that if he's not traded, he's up early August.

teknetic
07-21-11, 05:49 PM
It's not amazing when you consider that the team wants their catcher to actually catch. If they could let Martin play D and then Montero hit for him they'd call him up. Since baseball doesn't allow that they don't really have an option.

They could easily platoon the two. Martin is obviously broken down and shouldn't be catching fulltime. Montero can DH here and there, get some reps at 1B and probably find himself playing 2-4 times a week.

Martin's essentially played like an inferior version of Jose Molina the last three months.

d32123
07-21-11, 06:00 PM
He'll make a nice backup catcher for Montero next season.

SLURPEE
07-21-11, 06:26 PM
^

That's basically what he is.

Dave B
07-21-11, 06:27 PM
Rumor has it that his 'stache is gone.

Damn. It was turning into a fine bit of facial hair (not really).


Why did Russell Martin shave his mustache? Was it getting too hot? Was it uncomfortable? “It was ugly as ................,” Martin said.

Mark19
07-24-11, 08:31 PM
It is SO nice having such a capable defensive catcher. I'm sure metrics will say he's only average but he is nonetheless a dramatic upgrade over what we've seen in past years.

Blazer
07-24-11, 08:36 PM
It is SO nice having such a capable defensive catcher. I'm sure metrics will say he's only average but he is nonetheless a dramatic upgrade over what we've seen in past years.

Ditto! He seems to save runs by blocking balls and snagging errant throws on a regular basis. On top of that, it's so nice to see a C who doesn't have to stand up when calling for the high FB on an 0-2 count.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-24-11, 08:41 PM
Ditto! He seems to save runs by blocking balls and snagging errant throws on a regular basis. On top of that, it's so nice to see a C who doesn't have to stand up when calling for the high FB on an 0-2 count.

He also seems to have the respect of the pitchers, even getting AJ to be more aggressive. Still can't believe this guy came for nothing

THEBOSS84
07-24-11, 08:44 PM
It is a no-brainer move to offer him arbitration after the season.

Kismetized
07-24-11, 08:44 PM
He also seems to have the respect of the pitchers, even getting AJ to be more aggressive. Still can't believe this guy came for nothing

He's getting four million this year with an additional 1.4 upon 120 games caught. Given his health concerns and the season he had last year, I'd hardly call that nothing. He's arbitration eligible next year so the Yanks could end up keeping him.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-24-11, 08:49 PM
He's getting four million this year with an additional 1.4 upon 120 games caught. Given his health concerns and the season he had last year, I'd hardly call that nothing. He's arbitration eligible next year so the Yanks could end up keeping him.

It's nothing for the Yankees, considering what he's given them this year. I don't think there's any question they keep him next year. He'd at least be a good trade chip if they wanted to start someone else.

Kismetized
07-24-11, 08:56 PM
It's nothing for the Yankees, considering what he's given them this year. I don't think there's any question they keep him next year. He'd at least be a good trade chip if they wanted to start someone else.

I guess. I just think the guy is a tad overrated by Yankees fans because we got used to watching Posada for years. If it's a catcher with good D the Yankees are looking for, there's better values out there than Martin. He's been pretty dreadful offensively for two months now.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-24-11, 09:03 PM
I guess. I just think the guy is a tad overrated by Yankees fans because we got used to watching Posada for years. If it's a catcher with good D the Yankees are looking for, there's better values out there than Martin. He's been pretty dreadful offensively for two months now.

He has been, but he's stll 7th in OPS in the AL among C's with 200 PA's, and you're not getting most of the guys ahead of him. I'm more concerned about a suspect bat at DH than C

Mark19
07-24-11, 09:23 PM
At the end of the day, getting a slash line of .235/.335/.385 and 15 HRs - 12 SBs from your backstop is more than sufficient for a contending team. In a perfect world, he would bat 8th and we'd have a capable run producer batting in front of him. Our big problem right now is that we aren't getting much from the guys batting 6th and 7th.

35Knucklecurve
07-25-11, 10:36 AM
He also seems to have the respect of the pitchers, even getting AJ to be more aggressive. Still can't believe this guy came for nothing
Being able to get pitchers to feel confident with a catcher gets overlooked a lot and it's one thing that doesn't show up in the boxscore. I would keep him next year -at least for maybe half of the season. Between Montero's talent and Martin's insight and experience with the rotation/bullpen, that could prove to be pretty valuable.

ieddyi
07-25-11, 11:56 AM
Being able to get pitchers to feel confident with a catcher gets overlooked a lot and it's one thing that doesn't show up in the boxscore. I would keep him next year -at least for maybe half of the season. Between Montero's talent and Martin's insight and experience with the rotation/bullpen, that could prove to be pretty valuable.

I'd hate to imagine Montero trying to block AJ's numerous curveballs in the dirt

ring403
07-25-11, 12:01 PM
At the end of the day, getting a slash line of .235/.335/.385 and 15 HRs - 12 SBs from your backstop is more than sufficient for a contending team. In a perfect world, he would bat 8th and we'd have a capable run producer batting in front of him.
Agreed. His defense and rapport with the pitchers has also been a breath of fresh air.

gold23
07-25-11, 03:44 PM
Agreed. His defense and rapport with the pitchers has also been a breath of fresh air.

Yep. He's also come up with a bunch of big hits this year. But the main thing is his defense. Every single year, the Yanks have had issues with most teams running wild against them. I can't even begin to figure how many additional runs were scored in the past by simply getting every semi-decent runner into scoring position when he got on base. Martin shuts down a running game, which makes the other team's offense legitimately earn their runs. To me, that's easily worth 20-30 points in BA.

dabomb2045
07-25-11, 07:46 PM
Yep. He's also come up with a bunch of big hits this year. But the main thing is his defense. Every single year, the Yanks have had issues with most teams running wild against them. I can't even begin to figure how many additional runs were scored in the past by simply getting every semi-decent runner into scoring position when he got on base. Martin shuts down a running game, which makes the other team's offense legitimately earn their runs. To me, that's easily worth 20-30 points in BA.

I like Martin and have no problem with the numbers he's put up. He brings so many other positive attributes to the team with his game-calling, pitch-framing, and overall defense. I think he's one of the reasons why our pitching staff has been so much better this year then last year.

We can afford to carry his bat IF we address the DH situation. Martin's offense becomes a significant problem when we have other black holes in the lineup. The DH situation right now is so bad. IF that gets addressed, and a move is made to put a bat in their that can contribute significantly to the offense....then Martin's bat can be carried.

just-blaze
08-04-11, 10:49 PM
His last 11 games he has hit 292 with a 822 OPS.

grizy
08-04-11, 10:56 PM
His solution to low BABIP: hit the ball out of the park.

DrNick
08-05-11, 05:31 AM
His solution to low BABIP: hit the ball out of the park.

I dont think his home run has landed yet. That ball was crushed.

BRNXBMRS
08-05-11, 08:42 AM
That HR in the 9th was a moon shot, what a beautiful swing.

a-RobinsonCano-Fan
08-05-11, 11:39 AM
Glad to see a little pop in his bat again recently

knickfan23
08-05-11, 02:02 PM
His last 11 games he has hit 292 with a 822 OPS.


Basically, since shaving his ridiculous mustache, he has morphed into a different player.

ajra21
08-06-11, 10:57 AM
his OBP is pretty impressive given the low average. more than happy to have him back next year.

GordonGecko
08-06-11, 11:15 AM
his OBP is pretty impressive given the low average. more than happy to have him back next year.

He fits in perfectly on this team with his personality. He's a Swisher-type of likeable guy and brings it every game. Top rate defensively, and signs of greatness at bat. He just needs to be more consistent over the course of the season. Definitely want him back next year, Cervelli is expendable

ajra21
08-06-11, 11:45 AM
He fits in perfectly on this team with his personality. He's a Swisher-type of likeable guy and brings it every game. Top rate defensively, and signs of greatness at bat. He just needs to be more consistent over the course of the season. Definitely want him back next year, Cervelli is expendable

AJ has 14 WP this year. without martin behind the plate, it could be 24.

MikeYank
08-07-11, 04:08 AM
He fits in perfectly on this team with his personality. He's a Swisher-type of likeable guy and brings it every game. Top rate defensively, and signs of greatness at bat. He just needs to be more consistent over the course of the season. Definitely want him back next year, Cervelli is expendable

Well said.

Even if he doesn't hit, he's great behind the plate. And a catcher that can steal bases!

NoodleRay
08-08-11, 08:06 AM
This kid is easy to like, to me he already feels like a Yankee. It doesn't hurt that he has a bazooka for a throwing arm. Just look at what he does behind the plate, he's like an octopus throwing himself from side to side. Running on all fours, he really puts on a show (talent).

Imagine how good he'll be once he knows the hitters, seeing them enough to know their strengths and weaknesses (valuable indeed). Also with Joe being an ex. catcher he knows how catching wears a player down, especially in this heat (rest is the key).

Russell is a slugger with great power for his size, actually he's proud and very strong when he homers it's nothing for him to go 20 rows deep. this kids a keeper!

mr.roy
08-08-11, 10:39 AM
Top of the 5th, not the greatest baserunning choice down 1-0........all the while Beckett is dealing. The Yankees needed baserunners and if he wanted 2nd so bad I'm sure he could have stolen it.

That's one the Yanks would like back.

NelsonMuntz
08-08-11, 11:29 AM
Top of the 5th, not the greatest baserunning choice down 1-0........all the while Beckett is dealing. The Yankees needed baserunners and if he wanted 2nd so bad I'm sure he could have stolen it.

That's one the Yanks would like back.
Yep. And then Nunez proceeds to go yard. I knew that run would come back to bite us. Not that the loss is all on Martin by any stretch, but you hate to throw runs away like that.

35Knucklecurve
08-08-11, 11:56 AM
He fits in perfectly on this team with his personality. He's a Swisher-type of likeable guy and brings it every game. Top rate defensively, and signs of greatness at bat. He just needs to be more consistent over the course of the season. Definitely want him back next year, Cervelli is expendable
Absolutely - you need a few guys like him and Swish to keep the rest of the guys from getting too down during the rought spots. He also seems to have learned how to handle most of the pitching staff in a relatively short period of time. I like Cervelli too, but as you said, if a move has to be made, Martin has to be the one to stay.

NY Dude
08-19-11, 11:15 PM
Russell Martin has hit twice as many home runs at Target Field than Joe Mauer has in two seasons there. That $164 million contract is certainly paying off.

Jax Teller
08-19-11, 11:15 PM
Russell Martin has hit twice as many home runs at Target Field than Joe Mauer has in two seasons there. That $164 million contract is certainly paying off.

I think it's $184Mill

NY Dude
08-19-11, 11:22 PM
I think it's $184Mill

Well, it started last year. He's already made $20 million of that already. He gets $24 million this year, but he's only hit 1 home run in Target Field.

I seriously would like to know how you can justify spending that much money on a catcher who can't even hit for power.

Mr.Muhozi
08-19-11, 11:29 PM
Well, it started last year. He's already made $20 million of that already. He gets $24 million this year, but he's only hit 1 home run in Target Field.

I seriously would like to know how you can justify spending that much money on a catcher who can't even hit for power.

Mauer won the MVP award the previous season and he also had an OPS+ of 170 and hit 28 homeruns.

I just think he doesn't like Target Field or something is seriously wrong with him.

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-19-11, 11:36 PM
Mauer won the MVP award the previous season and he also had an OPS+ of 170 and hit 28 homeruns.

I just think he doesn't like Target Field or something is seriously wrong with him.

That was an amazing season, even beyond the power. And the guy's had 4 years with an OBP above .400, while being a stellar C. But if you go back and look at his career, though, the 28 HRs are really an outlier, regardless of home field.

NY Dude
08-19-11, 11:39 PM
Mauer won the MVP award the previous season and he also had an OPS+ of 170 and hit 28 homeruns.

I just think he doesn't like Target Field or something is seriously wrong with him.

Still, he's a catcher. Those guys get banged up pretty bad and injuries are always a problem. Should have thought about that before giving him that outrageous contract.

He's basically been reduced to a slap hitter now and there is no doubt that his contract has hurt the Twins for the long term.

Jax Teller
08-19-11, 11:40 PM
Mauer is too good of a hitter. This is not what he's going to be going forward.

GordonGecko
08-20-11, 12:29 PM
Mauer is too good of a hitter. This is not what he's going to be going forward.


Mauer is too good of a hitter. This is not what he's going to be going forward.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2m3lqqg.jpg

teknetic
08-20-11, 03:20 PM
Comparing Mauer to Wells..

TheGameEpisode2
08-20-11, 04:38 PM
Even though his offensive numbers aren't too pretty, I've been very happy with Martin all year. No complaints from me. He's provided some amazing defense behind catcher, something we haven't seen in YEARS.

Mr.Muhozi
08-25-11, 06:40 PM
Should be given a day off more often.

ThePinStripes
08-25-11, 08:03 PM
Even though his offensive numbers aren't too pretty, I've been very happy with Martin all year. No complaints from me. He's provided some amazing defense behind catcher, something we haven't seen in YEARS.
He has damn near league average offense, which is pretty good for a catcher.

sousuffer
08-26-11, 01:10 PM
It just so happens I was looking at Martin's stats yesterday before the game...his WAR was 1.5...after the game, 2.0. That puts this season on track to match his 2008 season whereas yesterday he was on track to match his season last year.

kan_t
08-26-11, 02:28 PM
It just so happens I was looking at Martin's stats yesterday before the game...his WAR was 1.5...after the game, 2.0. That puts this season on track to match his 2008 season whereas yesterday he was on track to match his season last year.
WAR is useless in measuring catcher's value, as UZR or TZ can't measure catcher's defense.

THEBOSS84
08-26-11, 02:29 PM
It just so happens I was looking at Martin's stats yesterday before the game...his WAR was 1.5...after the game, 2.0. That puts this season on track to match his 2008 season whereas yesterday he was on track to match his season last year.

3.2 fWAR

kan_t
08-26-11, 02:31 PM
Catcher's RC+ in MLB

1) Avila - 150
2) McCann - 137
3) Martin - 111

89FoxBody
08-26-11, 03:50 PM
I didn't realize Avila was having such a good season. Or that he was so young, for that matter. That said, his BABIP is sky-high (.369). Not sure how much of a fluke this can be considered.

TheYankee
08-26-11, 04:08 PM
Cashman is beginning to look like a genius. What a signing Martin was, and what a deal AJax for Granderson was. Actually, the Granderson deal is beginning to look like downright larceny.

THEBOSS84
08-26-11, 04:28 PM
Cashman is beginning to look like a genius. What a signing Martin was, and what a deal AJax for Granderson was. Actually, the Granderson deal is beginning to look like downright larceny.

Don't forget about our boy Swisher. That was grand larceny.

TheYankee
08-26-11, 04:37 PM
Don't forget about our boy Swisher. That was grand larceny.
Yep. I mean... these deals are turning out to be epic.

Sam18
08-26-11, 06:08 PM
Don't forget Colon, Garcia, Nova and the pen. The franchise has come a long way from the mid 00s.

sweet_lou_14
09-01-11, 11:40 PM
Especially considering his part in Burnett's performance, he was the star of this game.

JSG
09-01-11, 11:52 PM
Don't forget Colon, Garcia, Nova and the pen. The franchise has come a long way from the mid 00s.

or andruw jones and chavez and, yeah, corey wade and luis ayala. mandatory bi-annual whiff on the loogy, but cashman threw down some body slams this offseason. and as they say, some of the best deals are the ones not made (well, other than haren), like holding on to our chips, not overpaying for jiminez or pen arms, etc. SOLID !!!

Zimmers' Helmet
09-02-11, 12:15 AM
Cashman is beginning to look like a genius. What a signing Martin was, and what a deal AJax for Granderson was. Actually, the Granderson deal is beginning to look like downright larceny.

Except that it wasn't. The Yankees also parted with Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy in the Granderson trade, meanwhile Kennedy has blossomed into one of the top starting pitchers in the NL.

Was it a good trade for the Yankees? Yes. Was it larceny? No.

Yankees1962
09-02-11, 12:53 AM
Except that it wasn't. The Yankees also parted with Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy in the Granderson trade, meanwhile Kennedy has blossomed into one of the top starting pitchers in the NL.

Was it a good trade for the Yankees? Yes. Was it larceny? No.
Coke has been awful this year for the Tigers.

Zimmers' Helmet
09-02-11, 01:00 AM
Coke has been awful this year for the Tigers.
It still doesn't make the trade "larceny". Not with the way Kennedy has pitched in Arizona.

Yankees1962
09-02-11, 01:09 AM
It still doesn't make the trade "larceny". Not with the way Kennedy has pitched in Arizona.
I'm not debating that, but you were the one that brought Coke into the conversation like he was performing well for the Tigers. Also, I'm glad Ian is doing well, but his dominance in such a weak hitting division might be slightly deceiving. The real test for him will be in the playoffs if the D-Backs make it.

Zimmers' Helmet
09-02-11, 01:42 AM
I'm not debating that, but you were the one that brought Coke into the conversation like he was performing well for the Tigers. Also, I'm glad Ian is doing well, but his dominance in such a weak hitting division might be slightly deceiving. The real test for him will be in the playoffs if the D-Backs make it.

I brought Coke into the conversation because a previous poster stated that trading A-Jax for Granderson was larceny - what he failed to mention was that the Yankees also traded Kennedy and Coke in that deal as well, and considering how well Kennedy has pitched since that trade was made, I can't consider that trade "larceny", although I do consider it a good one for the Yankees.

Not sure where you assumed that I somehow implied Coke was performing well since I never said any such thing...

BRNXBMRS
09-02-11, 09:16 AM
What is Martin going to get in arbitration next year? Do the Yanks offer him a 2 yeatr deal and try to ease Montero/Romine in?

JSG
09-02-11, 09:56 AM
What is Martin going to get in arbitration next year? Do the Yanks offer him a 2 yeatr deal and try to ease Montero/Romine in?

i think they have to try and lock this guy up, no ??

Snatch Catch
09-02-11, 10:06 AM
Except that it wasn't. The Yankees also parted with Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy in the Granderson trade, meanwhile Kennedy has blossomed into one of the top starting pitchers in the NL.

Was it a good trade for the Yankees? Yes. Was it larceny? No.

With the way Curtis Cranderson has performed this year, that trade is absolutely larceny.

We're talking about one of the top 5-6 offensive players in the league, in the same breath as Miguel Cabrera and Joey Votto. Acquiring that player on a below market contract for AJax and IPK, even with the way IPK has pitched, is larceny. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Go here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2011-pitching-leaders.shtml

Search "Kennedy" in your browser. His name appears on 4 lists: Wins, Win/Loss %, Games started, and Wild pitches. He's been good, but giving up a good starting pitcher and AJax for a truly elite centerfielder on a good contract in his prime is highway robbery.

mbn007
09-02-11, 10:49 AM
Just remember that the Tigers were also trying to clear off future salary commitments at the time they traded Curtis. This, besides the attempt to get some young talent also. And Arizona did receive a pitcher who is doing exactly what the need. So while I think it was a solid win for the Yankees, it is in no way, shape or form like the "steal" the Swisher trade was.

Zimmers' Helmet
09-02-11, 10:54 AM
With the way Curtis Cranderson has performed this year, that trade is absolutely larceny.

We're talking about one of the top 5-6 offensive players in the league, in the same breath as Miguel Cabrera and Joey Votto. Acquiring that player on a below market contract for AJax and IPK, even with the way IPK has pitched, is larceny. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Go here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2011-pitching-leaders.shtml

Search "Kennedy" in your browser. His name appears on 4 lists: Wins, Win/Loss %, Games started, and Wild pitches. He's been good, but giving up a good starting pitcher and AJax for a truly elite centerfielder on a good contract in his prime is highway robbery.

Your argument is flawed based on the fact that you're judging a trade based on two seasons. Regardless of what Kennedy does moving forward, this is a good trade for the Yankees for the reasons you mention, however, if Kennedy goes on to pitch another 5-7 years the way he has this year, then it can't be considered larceny.

It's never larceny when you sacrifice a young front line starter in a trade. That's one of the most valuable commodities in baseball.

Snatch Catch
09-02-11, 11:09 AM
Your argument is flawed based on the fact that you're judging a trade based on two seasons. Regardless of what Kennedy does moving forward, this is a good trade for the Yankees for the reasons you mention, however, if Kennedy goes on to pitch another 5-7 years the way he has this year, then it can't be considered larceny.

It's never larceny when you sacrifice a young front line starter in a trade. That's one of the most valuable commodities in baseball.

But I thought we were judging the trade right now?

Regardless, the season that Curtis Granderson has had this year puts him so far ahead of IPK that the "there are years left before this is sorted out" argument is weakened to the point of inefficacy. Curtis Cranderson is putting up an MVP season both in the traditional sense, and the sabremetric sense. Nothing IPK is doing is even close to being in that conversation.

And calling IPK a "frontline starter" is a stretch. He is good, young pitcher with the potential for a solid future. That's as far as I'd go there. Curtis Granderson has been one of the top 5-6 offensive players in the entire Major Leagues this season. That's an expansive gap.

Snatch Catch
09-02-11, 11:16 AM
For the record, I actually like IPK a lot and am glad to see him succeeding in AZ. In my view though the difference between a solid, young cost controlled starter who is a very nice 3rd/4th guy in a contender's rotation, and a CF who is amongst the 5-6 best offensive players in all of baseball, is absolutely massive.

teknetic
09-02-11, 11:17 AM
Don't forget about our boy Swisher. That was grand larceny.

The Thames/Jones signings were awesome, too. Thames mashed and he was still let go I (then brought back) in favor of a guy who's outperformed him.

JOBA RULES
09-02-11, 11:19 AM
Larceny is the BS Theo sent to SD for Agon

Thats larceny

teknetic
09-02-11, 11:24 AM
Just remember that the Tigers were also trying to clear off future salary commitments at the time they traded Curtis. This, besides the attempt to get some young talent also. And Arizona did receive a pitcher who is doing exactly what the need. So while I think it was a solid win for the Yankees, it is in no way, shape or form like the "steal" the Swisher trade was.

They wound up signing Damon. Their owner is one of the richest in the sport and they just signed Benoit and Martinez this offseason. It was never an issue with wanting to save money, they thought Granderson was on the decline.

Yankee Fan in Boston
09-02-11, 11:32 AM
Can someone point me to the Russell Martin thread?

JSG
09-02-11, 11:37 AM
if it's a pie chart, it looks right now to me like 60 for NY, 25 for AZ and 15 for det.

maybe not grand larceny or rape, pillage and plunder, but we did really well. CG is doing it prime time in the AL east, not so sure we get the same results with IPK here vs NL west.

BRNXBMRS
09-02-11, 11:39 AM
i think they have to try and lock this guy up, no ??

You would think but how long can you keep Montero/Romine away from the dish?

Yankee Fan in Boston
09-02-11, 11:44 AM
You would think but how long can you keep Montero/Romine away from the dish?

It clearly begs the question whether they think Montero is going to be a C at the ML level. And if they do, you have to wonder what it means for Romine.

Of course, there's no rush to figure this out, as they have Martin's rights for another year and Montero's going to be making peanuts.

JSG
09-02-11, 12:03 PM
You would think but how long can you keep Montero/Romine away from the dish?

bird in the hand theory. keep him until either proves they can hold it down at that level. we still don't know what those yutes can do, whether montero will C or DH, etc.

Zimmers' Helmet
09-02-11, 08:33 PM
But I thought we were judging the trade right now?

Regardless, the season that Curtis Granderson has had this year puts him so far ahead of IPK that the "there are years left before this is sorted out" argument is weakened to the point of inefficacy. Curtis Cranderson is putting up an MVP season both in the traditional sense, and the sabremetric sense. Nothing IPK is doing is even close to being in that conversation.

And calling IPK a "frontline starter" is a stretch. He is good, young pitcher with the potential for a solid future. That's as far as I'd go there. Curtis Granderson has been one of the top 5-6 offensive players in the entire Major Leagues this season. That's an expansive gap.

Absolutely agree that Granderson has made a huge impact on this team, and I agree that this was a great trade for the Yankees to this point, however it's clear that we don't agree on Kennedy's true value since joining the D-Backs.

The fact that Kennedy pitches in the NL West shouldn't take away from the fact that he's posted the type of numbers which show that he's evolving into a #1 starter.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/28864/ian-kennedy

With the exception of Clayton Kershaw, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, his metrics show that he's arguably the best starting pitcher in that division, and one of the top 10 starting pitchers in the NL. Does anyone actually question whether Kershaw, Lincecum, or Cain could be effective in the AL East?

Again, a great trade for the Yankees - but also a good one for the D-Backs. It hasn't worked out all that well for the Tigers so far.

JSG
09-02-11, 10:25 PM
Absolutely agree that Granderson has made a huge impact on this team, and I agree that this was a great trade for the Yankees to this point, however it's clear that we don't agree on Kennedy's true value since joining the D-Backs.

i don't have a good feel for the IPK evaluations as i haven't seen him pitch in a few yrs, but the fangraphs pitch values, etc., are interesting as he's really changed since he was here. he used to throw a ton of sliders, now relatively few. he's also throwing a lot more curve balls and change ups, and has developed a cutter this yr that he throws a decent amount. so it looks in any case like he's evolving. how that would translate in the AL east, i suspect not as well but really have no FFFFFFFFFF ing clue.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6986&position=P

Yankees1962
09-03-11, 05:27 AM
They wound up signing Damon. Their owner is one of the richest in the sport and they just signed Benoit and Martinez this offseason. It was never an issue with wanting to save money, they thought Granderson was on the decline.
Exactly, I live in Michigan and they thought Granderson could never hit lefties and that he had his best years as a player.

Yankees1962
09-03-11, 05:30 AM
I brought Coke into the conversation because a previous poster stated that trading A-Jax for Granderson was larceny - what he failed to mention was that the Yankees also traded Kennedy and Coke in that deal as well, and considering how well Kennedy has pitched since that trade was made, I can't consider that trade "larceny", although I do consider it a good one for the Yankees.

Not sure where you assumed that I somehow implied Coke was performing well since I never said any such thing...
Then why bring him up in the first place? He hasn't been good for the Tigers and has actually regressed as a Tiger. Most Tiger fans I hang around with here in Michigan, can't stand him.

Yankees1962
09-03-11, 05:43 AM
Absolutely agree that Granderson has made a huge impact on this team, and I agree that this was a great trade for the Yankees to this point, however it's clear that we don't agree on Kennedy's true value since joining the D-Backs.

The fact that Kennedy pitches in the NL West shouldn't take away from the fact that he's posted the type of numbers which show that he's evolving into a #1 starter.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/28864/ian-kennedy

With the exception of Clayton Kershaw, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, his metrics show that he's arguably the best starting pitcher in that division, and one of the top 10 starting pitchers in the NL. Does anyone actually question whether Kershaw, Lincecum, or Cain could be effective in the AL East?

Again, a great trade for the Yankees - but also a good one for the D-Backs. It hasn't worked out all that well for the Tigers so far.
That's where you and I disagree because you can't discount the fact he's pitching in such an awful offensive division. I have Extra Innings and have watched Kennedy several times this season and he's basically the same pitcher with his pitching arsenal. The only difference between him now and when he was with the Yankees is that he was given a chance to pitch and gain some confidence there which wasn't the case here in his brief appearances as a Yankee. In 2007, he had 3 starts as a Yankee and did really well. In 2008, he had a total of 9 starts with poor results. Those poor starts along with his illness resulted in him not getting another chance here.


Make no mistake about it, Kennedy is a good young starter, but I don't think he would be enjoying the same level of success he's having in Arizona as a Yankee in the AL East. He would be an effective starter in the AL East, but not to the level he is now.

SLURPEE
09-10-11, 09:52 PM
Why in the world did he have his hands exposed?

RogerNatural
09-11-11, 03:49 PM
Why, indeed ! The first thing I learned before I caught my first game in Little League a billion years ago, was that you put your arm/hand behind you as you caught one-handed. I guess fundamentals have changed since the Dark Ages... (actually, this was the first thing I learned about catching after I learned how to put my cup on :eek: ) .

JSG
09-11-11, 07:13 PM
Why in the world did he have his hands exposed?


Why, indeed ! The first thing I learned before I caught my first game in Little League a billion years ago, was that you put your arm/hand behind you as you caught one-handed. I guess fundamentals have changed since the Dark Ages... (actually, this was the first thing I learned about catching after I learned how to put my cup on :eek: ) .

postgame yesterday he said one of the first things you learn as a C is hand behind your back, but said he was cheating a little bit with a runner on and angels' tendency to run. brain cramp and was punished for it.

awy
09-13-11, 02:08 PM
this may be a blessing in disguise. martin needs the rest and it further thins the catching depth charts to the point of forcing montero to catch a few games.

now, why is that a good thing? i don't know but we'll see.

Eldee5
09-13-11, 11:29 PM
The Montreal Gazette has a nice article on Martin:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Move+Yankees+helped+Martin+revive+career/5396743/story.html

snapple
09-22-11, 06:41 PM
10/10 for this

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7005688/new-york-yankees-russell-martin-hate-boston-red-sox

Mr Coffee
09-22-11, 06:53 PM
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/2011/09/22/russell-martin-i-hate-the-red-sox/


“Anything to get the Red Sox out would be awesome for me,” Martin said. “They’re coming up next, so it’ll be fun.”
Asked why he felt so strongly, Martin responded, “Because I hate the Red Sox.”

awy
09-22-11, 06:56 PM
good man

SatchelPaigeYankee
09-22-11, 07:02 PM
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/2011/09/22/russell-martin-i-hate-the-red-sox/

lock this sir up with a 10-yr contract.

fredgmuggs
09-22-11, 07:03 PM
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/2011/09/22/russell-martin-i-hate-the-red-sox/

He hates the Red Sox until he becomes a free agent and they offer him a nickel more than the next team. Yeah, I'm jaded.

Sam18
09-22-11, 08:21 PM
Muggs has seen things you people wouldn't believe.

fredgmuggs
09-22-11, 08:26 PM
Muggs has seen things you people wouldn't believe.

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

Mr Coffee
09-22-11, 08:35 PM
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

http://forbiddenplanetblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/Rutger%20Hauer%20Roy%20Batty%20Harrison%20Ford%20Deckard%20Blade%20Runner%20death%20scene.jpg