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RayG
08-09-10, 09:12 AM
Okay maybe a bit of a rant, but it's the same thing every time ESPeeyuu covers a game. I finally put it in the small PIP screen and had the Nat Geo channel show about Dogs on. swapped them when the Yankees were at bat with the sound off.

First one that irked me- They were discussing Jeter's accomplishment of passing Babe Ruth on the all time 'career' hits (although they first said he passed BR for the Yankee record...duh.. Miller later clarified.). This went on and Morgan then had this to say. The only reason Ruth didn't have 3000 hits is that he walked over 2000 times in his career... Wait, what? the ONLY reason? Gee, what about the 5 years he was a PITCHER and only batted every 4 days? And he said it 3-4 times- Orel should have been right on that one, but he isn't on anything.

The second one is a real corker. Posada up, man on first. I believe there was one out. So Posada pops it up to Beltre, and he makes the catch. Miller mentions that (in a very urgent tone) Posada was "...walking to the dugout as he made the catch!! If Beltre was paying attention he could have let that ball drop and have a sure DP!!!" ummm, excuse me? Jon and your great knowledge of baseball would have seen the Umpire making the Infield fly rule call. So- Posada saw the umpire make the call and headed to the Dugout, and second- Beltre couldn't have "let the ball drop" for that very reason.

Shortly after that it was time to switch to PIP... It's actually more painful than a Fox game sometimes. okay.. all the time.

RayG
08-09-10, 09:13 AM
Oh nerts... sorry about that. I wanted to post this in the Outside the Lines section. Could a Mod to the deed? Or if it's okay here, never mind...

JL25and3
08-09-10, 09:34 AM
If the umpire called an infield fly with only a runner on first, then the umpire needs to review the infield fly rule. Perhaps you do as well?

An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out.http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp

PinstripeDynasty
08-09-10, 09:35 AM
Infield Fly Rule is not in effect if there is only a runner on 1st.

Edit: at least I was only the 1st duplicate response.

bigjf
08-09-10, 09:36 AM
The second one is a real corker. Posada up, man on first. I believe there was one out. So Posada pops it up to Beltre, and he makes the catch. Miller mentions that (in a very urgent tone) Posada was "...walking to the dugout as he made the catch!! If Beltre was paying attention he could have let that ball drop and have a sure DP!!!" ummm, excuse me? Jon and your great knowledge of baseball would have seen the Umpire making the Infield fly rule call. So- Posada saw the umpire make the call and headed to the Dugout, and second- Beltre couldn't have "let the ball drop" for that very reason.

Has to be runners on first AND second, or bases loaded, with less than 2 outs, in order to get the infield fly call...Miller was right for a change, and I hate you for making me defend Miller. Posada really could have embarrassed himself if Beltre let it drop.

RayG
08-09-10, 10:13 AM
ah... okay- I thought I saw the umpire make the call... my bad on that one. Maybe Posada saw what I saw and lost track of the nuances of the call. In that case, they could have mentioned the subtleties of the IFR. Sorry for the need to defend Miller. I stand corrected.

JL25and3
08-09-10, 10:53 AM
Miller is a great radio announcer, very different from how he is on TV. I blame Morgan - get too close to him and you actually get stupider.

PinstripeDynasty
08-09-10, 11:45 AM
ah... okay- I thought I saw the umpire make the call... my bad on that one. Maybe Posada saw what I saw and lost track of the nuances of the call. In that case, they could have mentioned the subtleties of the IFR. Sorry for the need to defend Miller. I stand corrected.
In your defense, I had to look up the IF rule to be sure.

That's a rule that I wouldn't be surprised if they changed, because a team could drop the ball on purpose to get the force out, in order to put a slow runner like Jorge on 1b.

roblyo33
08-09-10, 11:47 AM
That is a risk that very few would be willing to take. You don't give up sure outs, IMO.

fredgmuggs
08-09-10, 11:54 AM
That is a risk that very few would be willing to take. You don't give up sure outs, IMO.
I would love if a fielder dropped a ball on purpose when the infield fly rule is called just to see what the runners will do. I guarantee you that some dopey base runners will think they he have to advance because they don't the know the rule and the defense will get a dp.

JL25and3
08-09-10, 12:55 PM
In your defense, I had to look up the IF rule to be sure.

That's a rule that I wouldn't be surprised if they changed, because a team could drop the ball on purpose to get the force out, in order to put a slow runner like Jorge on 1b.Sure, a team could do that. But then the ball might bounce away, or the fielder might make a bad throw, or something - a small risk, perhaps, but probably not worth the small advantage you gain.

The rule's been around since 1895. It hasn't been a problem so far.

Gusto
08-09-10, 01:55 PM
Sure, a team could do that. But then the ball might bounce away, or the fielder might make a bad throw, or something - a small risk, perhaps, but probably not worth the small advantage you gain.

The rule's been around since 1895. It hasn't been a problem so far.

Here's the rule that would have applied if Beltre purposely drops the ball ...

Rule 6.05(k) (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

JL25and3
08-09-10, 03:02 PM
Here's the rule that would have applied if Beltre purposely drops the ball ...

Rule 6.05(k) (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;Even better.

RayG
08-09-10, 03:28 PM
Here's the rule that would have applied if Beltre purposely drops the ball ...

Rule 6.05(k) (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

Ah.. so I was HALF right- I may have had the two rules confused or combined in my mind. The IFR didn't apply, BUT the intentionally dropped ball rule WOULD have applied to that situation.

5OClockLighting
08-09-10, 04:59 PM
The only reason Ruth didn't have 3000 hits is that he walked over 2000 times in his career... Wait, what? the ONLY reason? Gee, what about the 5 years he was a PITCHER and only batted every 4 days? And he said it 3-4 times- Orel should have been right on that one, but he isn't on anything.

I think his point is Ruth along with other great sluggers don't get to 3000 is because they get walked a ton. IIRC only Aaron, Mays, and Murray are the only people in the 500 HR club with 3,000 hits. For a new fan it seems weird nearly all the biggest household names in the history of hitting wouldn't be in the 3,000 hit club.

DiMaggio5CF
08-10-10, 01:50 AM
Ah.. so I was HALF right- I may have had the two rules confused or combined in my mind. The IFR didn't apply, BUT the intentionally dropped ball rule WOULD have applied to that situation.

Not necessarily. That rule posted above says that a fielder can't intenitonally drop the ball... not that he can't intentionally let the ball drop.

There's a difference between dropping it and letting it drop. If you let the ball drop, then you never touched it. And if you never touched it, how can you have dropped it?

And not for nothing, but regarding your original post, if you're going to post a rant about how inexcusable it is for the announcers to be wrong, you should probably make sure that you're not wrong.

blumj
08-10-10, 03:50 PM
How are umpires supposed to be able to tell the difference between a ball that's dropped intentionally and one that's dropped accidentally?

roblyo33
08-10-10, 04:14 PM
How are umpires supposed to be able to tell the difference between a ball that's dropped intentionally and one that's dropped accidentally?

Guess, like they do on a lot of calls.

Axon
08-12-10, 07:48 AM
Letting it drop used to work in Little League, but by High School, guys were a step from first before the ball was even coming down. Too bad Jorge forgot that. :P

PinstripeDynasty
08-12-10, 09:02 AM
We're talking about the same guy (Jorge) who after catching in this league for 15 years, still tags every batter with the ball after a dropped thrid strike, regardless of whether there is a runner on 1st with less than 2 outs, so I am SURE that he does not know the specifics of the Infield Fly Rule.

A PLAYER
08-13-10, 02:08 PM
Well, going back to the original post, right or wrong, I can't stand Jon Miller. I guess it's because I've always felt he's anti-Yankee. Therefore, I keep the sound very low and as a result, don't get to hear much of what Morgan is talking about either.